Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 2410712 times)

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5850 on: May 07, 2020, 08:20:25 PM »
Speaking of trucks, my brother called me today to see if I was still looking for a truck for my husband (no, he decided to replace the motor in his old one instead of buying a new one and this was two years ago now).  He's trying to sell his 2004 Ranger to raise the downpayment on a 2013 Wrangler.
To raise a down payment on a used car....

Everything about that phrase screams I cant afford this! to me.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5851 on: May 07, 2020, 08:26:58 PM »
Jeep Wranglers are terrible cars when they roll off the assembly line...

Can't imagine what a 7 year old Jeep Wrangler would be like. Shouldn't they pay him to take it off their hands?

LWYRUP

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5852 on: May 07, 2020, 09:59:10 PM »
Ok, related random Jeep question. 

So my dad wants to buy a fancy Jeep to do offroading & such.  Assume this is sort of a luxury limited edition type thing.  He is is 65 recently retired and can comfortably afford it. 

His stated purpose is to drive it along the beach (there's a legal area in the regional beach location near us) and also out on road trips like to Utah and then in the desert.  I know zero about cars but assume he has researched this. 

I'm inclined to say "cool, dad, hope you have an awesome time with the Jeep, YOLO," which since he's 65, it's sort of now or never.  I would not do it myself for many reasons, but am not really comfortable getting into that with him.  His job involved doing things that in fact easily saved tens of thousands of lives (very accomplished medical researcher who developed new tests, medical devices, etc.) so I didn't feel it was appropriate to guilt trip him about climate change -- he's done enough to benefit humanity to justify his carbon emissions.  Also don't want to make it seem like I'm angling after any inheritance -- I'm happy for him to spend what he likes, though I'd prefer it was like new solar panels or something.   

Anyways in this instance should I just go with the flow or should I be trying to steer him to some sort of different vehicle?  Something less terrible that still would do what he's looking for?

Edit:  I think it might be the Rubicon? 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 10:13:27 PM by LWYRUP »

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5853 on: May 07, 2020, 10:07:34 PM »
Ok, related random Jeep question. 

So my dad wants to buy a fancy Jeep to do offroading & such.  Assume this is sort of a luxury limited edition type thing.  He is is 65 recently retired and can comfortably afford it. 

His stated purpose is to drive it along the beach (there's a legal area in the regional beach location near us) and also out on road trips like to Utah and then in the desert.  I know zero about cars but assume he has researched this. 

I'm inclined to say "cool, dad, hope you have an awesome time with the Jeep, YOLO," which since he's 65, it's sort of now or never.  I would not do it myself for many reasons, but am not really comfortable getting into that with him.  His job involved doing things that in fact easily saved tens of thousands of lives (very accomplished medical researcher who developed new tests, medical devices, etc.) so I didn't feel it was appropriate to guilt trip him about climate change -- he's done enough to benefit humanity to justify his carbon emissions.  Also don't want to make it seem like I'm angling after any inheritance -- I'm happy for him to spend what he likes, though I'd prefer it was like new solar panels or something.   

Anyways in this instance should I just go with the flow or should I be trying to steer him to some sort of different vehicle?  Something less terrible that still would do what he's looking for?
Sounds like the right usage for a jeep to me, assuming he does it regularly, instead of the hypothetical offroad adventure that ends up happening once or twice a year at most.

LWYRUP

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5854 on: May 07, 2020, 10:19:32 PM »

I think the beach will be a semi-regular thing since they will also be moving near there.  It's also about three hours from where we are now so I'm sure my family (me, DW, kids) will go there on summer weekends, though more like once a month or so.

I'm guessing the Utah trip happens like once a year and other local trips happen a couple times a year.  And that it's a toy that he sort of winds down on and then when he's in his 70s it spends a lot of time sitting next to the house. 

All fine, the only awkward part may be if he tries to give it to me in 10 years and I refuse because I don't want to pay upkeep (insurance, maintenance, gas).  But I don't think he'll be mortally offended, so maybe it's just all fine as a "golden years" toy. 

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5855 on: May 08, 2020, 04:45:44 AM »
All fine, the only awkward part may be if he tries to give it to me in 10 years and I refuse because I don't want to pay upkeep (insurance, maintenance, gas).  But I don't think he'll be mortally offended, so maybe it's just all fine as a "golden years" toy.
If he does give it to you in ten years, you could simply sell it ("I'm sorry, it really wasn't meeting my needs, but selling it allowed me to do <insert more important thing here>, so I really appreciate your generosity").

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5856 on: May 08, 2020, 05:42:28 AM »
Jeep Wranglers are terrible cars when they roll off the assembly line...

Can't imagine what a 7 year old Jeep Wrangler would be like. Shouldn't they pay him to take it off their hands?

You know, I've heard this a lot and my brother has had a ton of problems out if his wife's Wrangler.  On the other hand, I've had two 2013 Wranglers and have had no problems with them (other than my husband totaling the first one).  My husband now drives my old 1999 Wrangler and didn't have any major problems until about 200k miles.  Maybe we've just been lucky.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5857 on: May 08, 2020, 05:45:26 AM »
Speaking of trucks, my brother called me today to see if I was still looking for a truck for my husband (no, he decided to replace the motor in his old one instead of buying a new one and this was two years ago now).  He's trying to sell his 2004 Ranger to raise the downpayment on a 2013 Wrangler.
To raise a down payment on a used car....

Everything about that phrase screams I cant afford this! to me.

That was my thought too.  Sadly, my brother has bought into the idea that if he can afford the payment he can afford whatever it is he's financing (does it surprise anyone that he works as a loan officer at a bank?).  I thought he was getting better a few years ago when he sold the car that had payments to keep this truck that's been paid off for years.

dignam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5858 on: May 08, 2020, 05:48:01 AM »
Jeep Wranglers are terrible cars when they roll off the assembly line...

Can't imagine what a 7 year old Jeep Wrangler would be like. Shouldn't they pay him to take it off their hands?

I hear this a lot, but I owned a used one for about 4 years and never had a problem.  My brother still has his '93 and it runs like a top.

Only reason I got rid of it is because it's a really impractical vehicle; albeit extremely fun off road (which I did regularly).  Not sure where you get the notion that the Wrangler is terrible, given how it's the only Jeep with a really good resale value?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 05:50:37 AM by dignam »

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5859 on: May 08, 2020, 05:52:49 AM »
Ok, related random Jeep question. 

So my dad wants to buy a fancy Jeep to do offroading & such.  Assume this is sort of a luxury limited edition type thing.  He is is 65 recently retired and can comfortably afford it. 

His stated purpose is to drive it along the beach (there's a legal area in the regional beach location near us) and also out on road trips like to Utah and then in the desert.  I know zero about cars but assume he has researched this. 

I'm inclined to say "cool, dad, hope you have an awesome time with the Jeep, YOLO," which since he's 65, it's sort of now or never.  I would not do it myself for many reasons, but am not really comfortable getting into that with him.  His job involved doing things that in fact easily saved tens of thousands of lives (very accomplished medical researcher who developed new tests, medical devices, etc.) so I didn't feel it was appropriate to guilt trip him about climate change -- he's done enough to benefit humanity to justify his carbon emissions.  Also don't want to make it seem like I'm angling after any inheritance -- I'm happy for him to spend what he likes, though I'd prefer it was like new solar panels or something.   

Anyways in this instance should I just go with the flow or should I be trying to steer him to some sort of different vehicle?  Something less terrible that still would do what he's looking for?

Edit:  I think it might be the Rubicon?

Aim him at an older, used vehicle? Just seems odd to buy a $40K vehicle to ruin offroad when a person could buy a $5K Jeep and modify it a little and have a better off-roader. Kind of like buying a brand new sports car to ruin at a race track. Maybe that's just the work hard to save up and buy it showing through me. Once I've got it, I want to protect it.

FWIW: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a32403082/jeep-wrangler-roll-over-iihs-crash-test-video/

Its a recent hot topic on the car websites.

In the end though its your parents' money. Sounds like your father can afford it and wants to play a little in retirement.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 06:19:11 AM by Just Joe »

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5860 on: May 08, 2020, 06:37:02 AM »
Ok, related random Jeep question. 

So my dad wants to buy a fancy Jeep to do offroading & such Assume this is sort of a luxury limited edition type thing.  He is is 65 recently retired and can comfortably afford it. 

His stated purpose is to drive it along the beach (there's a legal area in the regional beach location near us) and also out on road trips like to Utah and then in the desert.  I know zero about cars but assume he has researched this. 

I'm inclined to say "cool, dad, hope you have an awesome time with the Jeep, YOLO," which since he's 65, it's sort of now or never.  I would not do it myself for many reasons, but am not really comfortable getting into that with him.  His job involved doing things that in fact easily saved tens of thousands of lives (very accomplished medical researcher who developed new tests, medical devices, etc.) so I didn't feel it was appropriate to guilt trip him about climate change -- he's done enough to benefit humanity to justify his carbon emissions.  Also don't want to make it seem like I'm angling after any inheritance -- I'm happy for him to spend what he likes, though I'd prefer it was like new solar panels or something.   

Anyways in this instance should I just go with the flow or should I be trying to steer him to some sort of different vehicle?  Something less terrible that still would do what he's looking for?

Edit:  I think it might be the Rubicon?

Aim him at an older, used vehicle? Just seems odd to buy a $40K vehicle to ruin offroad when a person could buy a $5K Jeep and modify it a little and have a better off-roader. Kind of like buying a brand new sports car to ruin at a race track. Maybe that's just the work hard to save up and afford it showing through me. Once I've got it, I want to protect it.

FWIW: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a32403082/jeep-wrangler-roll-over-iihs-crash-test-video/

Its a recent hot topic on the car websites.

While I agree with you that a brand new one probably isn't the best way to  go in this situation, I don't think that a $5k Jeep is going to fit the bill.  A $5k Jeep is going to be at least 15 years old, two doors, and high mileage.  It's probably not something that's going to be comfortable or reliable for a roadtrip.  The sweet spot is probably going to be in the $18-20k range.  And even then wait six months for the repo sales to get started.

 The thing about Jeeps, and probably one reason they get such a bad rap, is that many people buy them without thinking about what they were used for in their previous life. For example, I mentioned earlier that my brother had been having some problems with his wife's.  They bought it used, from a Cadillac dealer, with a 2 inch lift and clear signs that trail gear like winches and tow rings had been installed at some point in time.  To me, that reads like this thing was a stump-jumper that was traded in for a "grown-up car."  It's likely this thing has been abused.  And that's great if you're into trail riding and have the skills to fix shit that goes wrong on the trail.  Not so much as a daily driver. 

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5861 on: May 08, 2020, 10:37:24 AM »
Jeep Wranglers are terrible cars when they roll off the assembly line...

Can't imagine what a 7 year old Jeep Wrangler would be like. Shouldn't they pay him to take it off their hands?

I hear this a lot, but I owned a used one for about 4 years and never had a problem.  My brother still has his '93 and it runs like a top.

Only reason I got rid of it is because it's a really impractical vehicle; albeit extremely fun off road (which I did regularly).  Not sure where you get the notion that the Wrangler is terrible, given how it's the only Jeep with a really good resale value?
No doubt they're fun and iconic cars. The rental counter at the airport near me rents hundreds of those every day.

I say it's a terrible car because Wranglers have consistently received poor reliability ratings for decades. That doesn't mean you can't get lucky and happily own one, trouble-free. But the odds are not in your favor.

Also, shit fuel economy.
I go off reliability ratings.

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5862 on: May 08, 2020, 12:56:19 PM »
Jeep Wranglers are terrible cars when they roll off the assembly line...

Can't imagine what a 7 year old Jeep Wrangler would be like. Shouldn't they pay him to take it off their hands?

I hear this a lot, but I owned a used one for about 4 years and never had a problem.  My brother still has his '93 and it runs like a top.

Only reason I got rid of it is because it's a really impractical vehicle; albeit extremely fun off road (which I did regularly).  Not sure where you get the notion that the Wrangler is terrible, given how it's the only Jeep with a really good resale value?
No doubt they're fun and iconic cars. The rental counter at the airport near me rents hundreds of those every day.

I say it's a terrible car because Wranglers have consistently received poor reliability ratings for decades. That doesn't mean you can't get lucky and happily own one, trouble-free. But the odds are not in your favor.

Also, shit fuel economy.
I go off reliability ratings.

According to Dashboard Light they are pretty reliable. Other Jeep models, not so much.
http://dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Jeep_Wrangler.html
http://dashboard-light.com/reports/Jeep.html

penguintroopers

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5863 on: May 09, 2020, 07:46:52 AM »
Spoiler: show
New purchase= 2020 Ford F-150 quad cab. Needed a truck to haul all those construction materials for household projects


Oof! I know Lowes and HD have truck rentals... I can't even imagine the.... I have to congratulate the truck salesman.

I was talking with my mother about this last night and I asked why he decided to go with a truck at this time while everything is so uncertain. She stated that he has been talking about getting one for over a year and he was tired of borrowing them from family members. That's right, we have at least 3 family members that live within 15 miles that own trucks. Now I get not wanting to overdue it and ask too much but come on. Hell, I bought a "truck", 2011 Honda Ridgeline, last year but we do live 2.5 hours away. So i don't hate trucks I just thought maybe buy a 10-15 year old beater if you are just wanting to haul stuff and keep your other paid off car. I do have to give my father some credit. He had his last car for 7 years. I'm 36 and I have never seen him keep a vehicle that long. It has constantly been a cycle of new shiny objects, but come on man. And the fact that he has been talking about doing it for a year and just finally did it does so a little self control. Just goes to show how when normal life is thrown out of wack our decision making can suffer. I mean we do have a thread on the MMM forum talking about being Unmustachian during this crisis. https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/unmustachian-things-we're-doing-due-to-coronavirus/ Even the followers of the stache don't always make the right choices.

The crazy things I'm seeing on that thread are "$200/mo more on groceries", "$150 legos to keep kids entertained", "new headphones to work from home", "first instacart delivery"... not $35k new truck. My personal contribution was two $4 movie rentals.

The one used car I saw mentioned didn't work out.

lemanfan

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5864 on: May 09, 2020, 07:53:33 AM »
That was my thought too.  Sadly, my brother has bought into the idea that if he can afford the payment he can afford whatever it is he's financing (does it surprise anyone that he works as a loan officer at a bank?).  I thought he was getting better a few years ago when he sold the car that had payments to keep this truck that's been paid off for years.

Oh dear.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5865 on: May 09, 2020, 08:15:32 AM »
Buying an expensive truck (or damn near ANY truck) to do some home renovation projects on their own home is just plain stupid for most people in this country.   It's beyond stupid.   It's moronic.   

There is simply no need to spend $20,000 to $80,000 to do that.

The materials can be delivered to your home for a nominal fee.   For less than a truck payment and the insurance on it you can have many deliveries.

You can buy an inexpensive trailer and get a trailer hitch put on your sedan.   Mine, from the purchase of the trailer, wood to put a bed and rails on it, a permanent tag for it, and the trailer hitch for my sedan for it, cost less than $1,000.      Even better, when I wore out the car that pulled it, it only cost me about $300 to have another trailer hitch put on the replacement car.

Many vehicles have (or can accept) roof racks.   This works for a few sheets of plywood or a few studs.   

Many vehicles have back seats that open up into the trunk area and front seats that fold forward a good bit.   You can put long stuff into a regular sedan that way.

I've renovated multiple houses over the years and the above methods work just fine for me.   

K-ice

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5866 on: May 09, 2020, 08:35:26 AM »
I don't  understand how it would be possible to pay $30k of loans in one year on a $60k income.

My general advice for graduates is to keep living like a student until the student loans are paid.
Roommates, no car, etc. With no tuition the loans can generally be knocked out quickly.
I know that ship has long sailed in this case but I just wanted to share.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5867 on: May 09, 2020, 09:08:04 AM »
I don't  understand how it would be possible to pay $30k of loans in one year on a $60k income.

My general advice for graduates is to keep living like a student until the student loans are paid.
Roommates, no car, etc. With no tuition the loans can generally be knocked out quickly.
I know that ship has long sailed in this case but I just wanted to share.

This worked out well for me.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5868 on: May 09, 2020, 11:31:38 AM »
I don't  understand how it would be possible to pay $30k of loans in one year on a $60k income.

My general advice for graduates is to keep living like a student until the student loans are paid.
Roommates, no car, etc. With no tuition the loans can generally be knocked out quickly.
I know that ship has long sailed in this case but I just wanted to share.

Guy who ran a blog called No More Harvard Debt paid off about $95K worth of student loans in one year with a  salary of $65K.

He had been in the work force for a number of years and had a house and lots of toys.   He started selling off his toys.   He rented out all the other bedrooms in his house and turned his house from an expense into a profit center.   He cut out all optional spending and tried out a number of 2nd jobs to raise additional money.    He also turned into a cool person from, frankly, your typical spoiled over-aged man-child.   

It's simply amazing what someone can accomplish when they set their heart and mind to it.

ducky19

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5869 on: May 11, 2020, 10:30:28 AM »
Buying an expensive truck (or damn near ANY truck) to do some home renovation projects on their own home is just plain stupid for most people in this country.   It's beyond stupid.   It's moronic.   

There is simply no need to spend $20,000 to $80,000 to do that.

The materials can be delivered to your home for a nominal fee.   For less than a truck payment and the insurance on it you can have many deliveries.

You can buy an inexpensive trailer and get a trailer hitch put on your sedan.   Mine, from the purchase of the trailer, wood to put a bed and rails on it, a permanent tag for it, and the trailer hitch for my sedan for it, cost less than $1,000.      Even better, when I wore out the car that pulled it, it only cost me about $300 to have another trailer hitch put on the replacement car.

Many vehicles have (or can accept) roof racks.   This works for a few sheets of plywood or a few studs.   

Many vehicles have back seats that open up into the trunk area and front seats that fold forward a good bit.   You can put long stuff into a regular sedan that way.

I've renovated multiple houses over the years and the above methods work just fine for me.

Depending on where you live, your local home improvement store may have a rental truck available. Menards has rental pickups available for $20 for the first 75 minutes - I could rent one 40 times for the cost of one month's truck payment! Also, U-Haul rents trucks in the $20-$30 range that will hold just about anything you need to haul (oooh, that's where the name comes from!).

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5870 on: May 11, 2020, 11:08:35 AM »
...

Depending on where you live, your local home improvement store may have a rental truck available. Menards has rental pickups available for $20 for the first 75 minutes - I could rent one 40 times for the cost of one month's truck payment! Also, U-Haul rents trucks in the $20-$30 range that will hold just about anything you need to haul (oooh, that's where the name comes from!).

I think my local Lowes will "rent" you a pick up for free but does not take reservations.  I have looked at the local big box stores delivery rates and I would call them significant but still far less than buying a truck.



SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5871 on: May 11, 2020, 11:48:28 AM »
...

Depending on where you live, your local home improvement store may have a rental truck available. Menards has rental pickups available for $20 for the first 75 minutes - I could rent one 40 times for the cost of one month's truck payment! Also, U-Haul rents trucks in the $20-$30 range that will hold just about anything you need to haul (oooh, that's where the name comes from!).

I think my local Lowes will "rent" you a pick up for free but does not take reservations.  I have looked at the local big box stores delivery rates and I would call them significant but still far less than buying a truck.

If we needed a lot of something, plywood, lumber, etc., we could just have them deliver the entire batch of stuff to the job site for a nominal fee.  I think it was less than $100.   The rest of the time a roof rack, the hatchback, or a cheap utility trailer were just fine.   $1000 for the trailer (all-in cost) and an occasional $100 charge vs hundreds of dollars a month for insurance and truck payments and tags.   

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5872 on: May 11, 2020, 07:19:23 PM »
If we needed a lot of something, plywood, lumber, etc., we could just have them deliver the entire batch of stuff to the job site for a nominal fee.  I think it was less than $100.   The rest of the time a roof rack, the hatchback, or a cheap utility trailer were just fine.   $1000 for the trailer (all-in cost) and an occasional $100 charge vs hundreds of dollars a month for insurance and truck payments and tags.   
Yup--I just finished my basement, and had two things delivered:  sheetrock, and MDF panels for the ceiling.  Each delivery charge was about $90.  Very much worth it!

UpNAtom

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5873 on: May 12, 2020, 08:43:26 AM »
That was my thought too.  Sadly, my brother has bought into the idea that if he can afford the payment he can afford whatever it is he's financing (does it surprise anyone that he works as a loan officer at a bank?).  I thought he was getting better a few years ago when he sold the car that had payments to keep this truck that's been paid off for years.
Drinking the kool-aid :)

Probably hard sitting there all day seeing everything everyone else is financing and not think "this is how the world works and there is nothing wrong here".  The alternative is working a job day-in-day-out and knowing that it is wrong.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 09:25:23 AM by UpNAtom »

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5874 on: May 12, 2020, 08:57:05 AM »
That was my thought too.  Sadly, my brother has bought into the idea that if he can afford the payment he can afford whatever it is he's financing (does it surprise anyone that he works as a loan officer at a bank?).  I thought he was getting better a few years ago when he sold the car that had payments to keep this truck that's been paid off for years.
Drinking the kool-aid :)

Probably hard sitting there all day seeing everything everyone one else is financing and not think "this is how the world works and there is nothing wrong here".  The alternative is working a job day-in-day-out and knowing that it is wrong.

+1

I worked at a convenience store in college. I sold a lot of lottery tickets. No one ever brings back the losing tickets, but they always come back with the winners, so it almost looks like everyone is winning. Thankfully, I learned my lesson after only a few tickets.

canadianrose

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5875 on: May 14, 2020, 06:54:32 PM »
Hey, new to the site, here. It's kinda the opposite of this thread, but I really want to brag on my older brother. I'm just starting to dig myself out, but I love that my brother is doing so well. 5 years ago, he was an alcoholic, divorcing from his wife, who was (and remains)addicted to pills due to a past injury. He had a string of vehicles that were driven into ditches, though thankfully he did no physical damage to anyone but himself, and not permanent. He was working at a job that was extremely physical, but he was good at it. He was passed up from promotions and apprenticeship opportunities because of his extracurricular activities, though. Then he met a lovely woman who called him on his shit. Then he found a new job that paid more than his crap job, that used his experience as a backyard mechanic and ability to translate customer to mechanic and back, which called on all of his brains, so he could not do well if he showed up hungover. Fast forward to today, they have two beautiful little girls, and they are doing very well in these times. SIL is a saver, and they are saving up for a wedding. His alcoholism is more in control than I have ever seen, and they have decent clean newish paid for vehicles.

Myself, except for 2010, I have been a financial shitshow. I could blame my 9 year relastionship with a guy who could not keep a job, but I bear some blame, too. (Easy to feel hard done by and feel the need for a treat. Also, we financed a new 2011 Ford Ranger) I hope to have positive net worth in a couple years.

We come from a family who have made a lot of questionable choices, and I am excited for my nieces to never know that kind of stress.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5876 on: May 14, 2020, 09:03:00 PM »
Hey, new to the site, here. It's kinda the opposite of this thread, but I really want to brag on my older brother. I'm just starting to dig myself out, but I love that my brother is doing so well. 5 years ago, he was an alcoholic, divorcing from his wife, who was (and remains)addicted to pills due to a past injury. He had a string of vehicles that were driven into ditches, though thankfully he did no physical damage to anyone but himself, and not permanent. He was working at a job that was extremely physical, but he was good at it. He was passed up from promotions and apprenticeship opportunities because of his extracurricular activities, though. Then he met a lovely woman who called him on his shit. Then he found a new job that paid more than his crap job, that used his experience as a backyard mechanic and ability to translate customer to mechanic and back, which called on all of his brains, so he could not do well if he showed up hungover. Fast forward to today, they have two beautiful little girls, and they are doing very well in these times. SIL is a saver, and they are saving up for a wedding. His alcoholism is more in control than I have ever seen, and they have decent clean newish paid for vehicles.

Myself, except for 2010, I have been a financial shitshow. I could blame my 9 year relastionship with a guy who could not keep a job, but I bear some blame, too. (Easy to feel hard done by and feel the need for a treat. Also, we financed a new 2011 Ford Ranger) I hope to have positive net worth in a couple years.

We come from a family who have made a lot of questionable choices, and I am excited for my nieces to never know that kind of stress.
@canadianrose nice first post.

Yep you can blame anyone else forever, but it looks like you are at least self-aware of YOUR issues. 
It is a long slog to start, but after that, you'll wonder what your previous issues were because they will pale compared to your current and future progress.

There are "races" to various Net Worth (NW) points on this forum.  Join in and realize, no matter what the situation , that you are not alone.
In fact, since you are here, you are better off than 90% of the people you see around you. 
Post and be Happy!

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5877 on: May 15, 2020, 09:29:35 AM »
While I agree with you that a brand new one probably isn't the best way to  go in this situation, I don't think that a $5k Jeep is going to fit the bill.  A $5k Jeep is going to be at least 15 years old, two doors, and high mileage.  It's probably not something that's going to be comfortable or reliable for a roadtrip.  The sweet spot is probably going to be in the $18-20k range.  And even then wait six months for the repo sales to get started.

 The thing about Jeeps, and probably one reason they get such a bad rap, is that many people buy them without thinking about what they were used for in their previous life. For example, I mentioned earlier that my brother had been having some problems with his wife's.  They bought it used, from a Cadillac dealer, with a 2 inch lift and clear signs that trail gear like winches and tow rings had been installed at some point in time.  To me, that reads like this thing was a stump-jumper that was traded in for a "grown-up car."  It's likely this thing has been abused.  And that's great if you're into trail riding and have the skills to fix shit that goes wrong on the trail.  Not so much as a daily driver.

One POV is a buy as new as possible and send it to the mechanic as little as possible.

My POV is buy it cheap and put a little money into it to make it reliable with work I do on it in my own garage - and then not worry if something breaks or gets scraped up. I'm not likely to drive a dedicated off-roader long distances. There is that point where what makes it good off road makes it worse on the road. 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 09:37:39 AM by Just Joe »

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5878 on: May 15, 2020, 09:32:49 AM »
...

Depending on where you live, your local home improvement store may have a rental truck available. Menards has rental pickups available for $20 for the first 75 minutes - I could rent one 40 times for the cost of one month's truck payment! Also, U-Haul rents trucks in the $20-$30 range that will hold just about anything you need to haul (oooh, that's where the name comes from!).

I think my local Lowes will "rent" you a pick up for free but does not take reservations.  I have looked at the local big box stores delivery rates and I would call them significant but still far less than buying a truck.

If we needed a lot of something, plywood, lumber, etc., we could just have them deliver the entire batch of stuff to the job site for a nominal fee.  I think it was less than $100.   The rest of the time a roof rack, the hatchback, or a cheap utility trailer were just fine.   $1000 for the trailer (all-in cost) and an occasional $100 charge vs hundreds of dollars a month for insurance and truck payments and tags.   

I'll second the trailer solution. I've done it that way for 20+ years.

Missy B

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5879 on: May 19, 2020, 01:03:13 AM »
Hey, new to the site, here. It's kinda the opposite of this thread, but I really want to brag on my older brother. I'm just starting to dig myself out, but I love that my brother is doing so well. 5 years ago, he was an alcoholic, divorcing from his wife, who was (and remains)addicted to pills due to a past injury. He had a string of vehicles that were driven into ditches, though thankfully he did no physical damage to anyone but himself, and not permanent. He was working at a job that was extremely physical, but he was good at it. He was passed up from promotions and apprenticeship opportunities because of his extracurricular activities, though. Then he met a lovely woman who called him on his shit. Then he found a new job that paid more than his crap job, that used his experience as a backyard mechanic and ability to translate customer to mechanic and back, which called on all of his brains, so he could not do well if he showed up hungover. Fast forward to today, they have two beautiful little girls, and they are doing very well in these times. SIL is a saver, and they are saving up for a wedding. His alcoholism is more in control than I have ever seen, and they have decent clean newish paid for vehicles.

Myself, except for 2010, I have been a financial shitshow. I could blame my 9 year relastionship with a guy who could not keep a job, but I bear some blame, too. (Easy to feel hard done by and feel the need for a treat. Also, we financed a new 2011 Ford Ranger) I hope to have positive net worth in a couple years.

We come from a family who have made a lot of questionable choices, and I am excited for my nieces to never know that kind of stress.

That you are so proud of your brother and cheering his family on makes me feel very optimistic for you. It's the opposite of the defensive person who complains that their relative 'was lucky' and they have bad luck themselves, and none of their financial problems are their fault, so they can't get out of their hole.

It's definitely challenging to grow up in a family where good, clear financial decision making wasn't modeled. I wish you all the best. There's lots of inspiration here, and I bet that if you stick around in a little while you'll be inspiring others yourself.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5880 on: May 27, 2020, 05:40:59 AM »
In the continuing adventures of BIL, he has decided that he wants to buy a house.  A $300k house.  Or maybe something more expensive in Boston (Because they'll only need one car there, ya know?).  While making $50k/year. 

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5881 on: May 27, 2020, 07:12:31 AM »
In the continuing adventures of BIL, he has decided that he wants to buy a house.  A $300k house.  Or maybe something more expensive in Boston (Because they'll only need one car there, ya know?).  While making $50k/year.
Should be fine,  as long as he has about a hundred grand to put down...

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5882 on: May 27, 2020, 07:15:46 AM »
In the continuing adventures of BIL, he has decided that he wants to buy a house.  A $300k house.  Or maybe something more expensive in Boston (Because they'll only need one car there, ya know?).  While making $50k/year.
Should be fine,  as long as he has about a hundred grand to put down...


I suspect that was what he was hinting at.  I think he's grossly miscalculated the current willingness and/or ability of the Bank of Mom and Dad to cut checks.

Jouer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5883 on: June 02, 2020, 10:51:55 AM »
In the continuing adventures of BIL, he has decided that he wants to buy a house.  A $300k house.  Or maybe something more expensive in Boston (Because they'll only need one car there, ya know?).  While making $50k/year.

My brother did that a few years ago. yadda yadda yadda.....the house is foreclosed and he's homeless.

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5884 on: June 08, 2020, 07:20:09 AM »
On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

During our weekly phone call last night, I learned that he expects to be reduced to a 40 hour limit, which would effectively reduce his pay by half. He's already looking into getting a deferment on his truck loan.

The saga continues!

As previously mentioned, my father got a new motorcycle sometime around January/February. He had a motorcycle previously that hadn't run in years (2005 touring bike with ~100k miles). He decided to give the old bike to my step-sister's fiance (we'll just call him Jon). Jon was supposed to get the bike fixed, get a motorcycle license, get the bike registered in his name, and get the bike insured.

Instead, Jon got the bike fixed and was riding the bike without a license, uninsured, and with expired registration still in my father's name. Jon is a pilot, so you'd think that he has some common sense, but apparently that's not the case. While taking a curve too fast, he drifted out of his lane and hit a pickup.

Jon miraculously didn't die, though he has a handful of broken bones and a lot of road rash. However, now we have to wonder how this is all going to play out financially. The pickup will probably be written off as totaled, and I'm sure this could come back on my father, as the bike was still legally his property. Jon can probably afford to pay for the pickup with his income, but who knows what else is going to come of this?

I don't know why, but it just seems that people who make bad decisions with money have more bad things happen to them. This is just one of those things. It's certainly more Jon's fault than my father's, but my father has already put himself in a hole from previous mistakes.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 09:19:16 AM by DadJokes »

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5885 on: June 08, 2020, 09:05:01 AM »
On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

During our weekly phone call last night, I learned that he expects to be reduced to a 40 hour limit, which would effectively reduce his pay by half. He's already looking into getting a deferment on his truck loan.

The saga continues!

As previously mentioned, my father got a new motorcycle sometime around January/February. He had a motorcycle previously that hadn't run in years (2005 touring bike with ~100k miles). He decided to give the old bike to my step-sister's fiance (we'll just call him Jon). Jon was supposed to get the bike fixed, get a motorcycle license, get the bike registered in his name, and get the bike insured.

Instead, Jon got the bike fixed and was riding the bike without a license, uninsured, and with expired registration still in my father's name. Jon is a pilot, so you'd think that he has some common sense, but apparently that's not the case. While taking a curve too fast, he drifted out of his lane and hit a pickup.

Jon miraculously didn't die, though he has a handful of broken bones and a lot of road rash. However, now we have to wonder how this is all going to play out financially. The pickup will probably be written off as totaled, and I'm sure this could come back on my father, as the bike was still legally his property. Jon can probably afford to pay for the pickup with his income, but who knows what else is going to this?

I don't know why, but it just seems that people who make bad decisions with money have more bad things happen to them. This is just one of those things. It's certainly more Jon's fault than my father's, but my father has already put himself in a hole from previous mistakes.
Anyone can sue anybody for anything. In terms of liability, if your dad didn't take steps to notify the state and file a deed of gift or do a title transfer, he could definitely be on the hook. Sadly, if he doesn't have insurance on the vehicle himself, he may well end up with a judgement against him.

This is why I formally transferred my daughter's vehicle into her name only, getting myself off the title, when she chose to move out just after her 18th birthday. In the event she (or someone she lent the vehicle to) did something stupid with it later, I didn't want to be the one who was wiped out.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5886 on: June 08, 2020, 12:15:54 PM »
I don't know why, but it just seems that people who make bad decisions with money have more bad things happen to them. This is just one of those things. It's certainly more Jon's fault than my father's, but my father has already put himself in a hole from previous mistakes.

I think people who make bad decisions about money tend also to make bad decisions in other areas of life (e.g. giving someone unreliable free rein over your motorcycle). And they have little cushion against the bad effects of those decisions.

RainyDay

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5887 on: June 10, 2020, 10:44:14 AM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING. 

Nick_Miller

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5888 on: June 10, 2020, 12:02:25 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They don't help you summon a Patronus??? -blinks-

Aunt Petunia

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5889 on: June 10, 2020, 12:34:34 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They don't help you summon a Patronus??? -blinks-

As I recall in the books they were used to start fires for cooking food.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5890 on: June 10, 2020, 12:35:37 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They don't help you summon a Patronus??? -blinks-

As I recall in the books they were used to start fires for cooking food.

Also, making other people vomit slugs.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5891 on: June 10, 2020, 02:19:17 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

BabyShark

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5892 on: June 10, 2020, 02:26:56 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5893 on: June 10, 2020, 02:31:16 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

Get rich, $10 at a time.
Get poor, $40 at a time.     /s

Frankies Girl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5894 on: June 10, 2020, 03:36:49 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s



Totally get it the sarcasm, but I'd have been really tempted to tell them you can actually buy a decent used stove for under $120.

https://hickory.craigslist.org/app/d/lincolnton-gas-stove/7137228243.html

https://hickory.craigslist.org/app/d/newton-whirlpool-stove/7136750819.html


Some appliance repair peeps pick up the older models for free that folks discard due to not wanting to fix or buying a fancy new model, and then fix up and resell at a steep discount. The guy that repaired my washer told me they really don't make them like this model any more, and if I ever want to get rid of it, let him know because it was a workhorse (and told me his repair would last at least another 5-10 years, and told me what to do if the one other thing that could wear out since it could be fixed by me easily).





« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 12:03:34 AM by Frankies Girl »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5895 on: June 10, 2020, 05:25:00 PM »
Some appliance repair peeps pick up the older models for free that folks discard due to not wanting to fix or buying a fancy new model, and then fix up and resell at a steep discount. The guy that repaired my washer told me they really don't make them like this model any more, and if I ever want to get rid of it, let him know because it was a workhorse (and told me his repair would last at least another 5-10 years, and told me what to do if the one other thing that could wear out since it could be fixed by me easily).
Electromechanical appliances for the win!  Our washer is now 15 years old.  We currently put 8+ washes through every week, and the only issues we've run into were worn agitator dogs ($5 and 15 minutes to replace, and it's a wear item) and a fill hose that got a small crack ($15ish and a bit longer to replace).  From my cold, dead hands....

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5896 on: June 10, 2020, 10:47:48 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

I'd dispute that, but I'm more interested in the rest of your reasoning. If you have't got basic appliances, why would you think it's ok to buy expensive crap for your kids?? Just because it didn't cost the entire price of the stove (and I'm still disputing that), doesn't mean that it could not have gone towards the stove. If they keep spending because "it was only x and wouldn't have paid for a stove anyway", they will never afford a stove!

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5897 on: June 10, 2020, 11:05:07 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

I'd dispute that, but I'm more interested in the rest of your reasoning. If you have't got basic appliances, why would you think it's ok to buy expensive crap for your kids?? Just because it didn't cost the entire price of the stove (and I'm still disputing that), doesn't mean that it could not have gone towards the stove. If they keep spending because "it was only x and wouldn't have paid for a stove anyway", they will never afford a stove!

Somebody missed the "/s" sarcasm marker...

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5898 on: June 10, 2020, 11:08:44 PM »
I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

I'd dispute that, but I'm more interested in the rest of your reasoning. If you have't got basic appliances, why would you think it's ok to buy expensive crap for your kids?? Just because it didn't cost the entire price of the stove (and I'm still disputing that), doesn't mean that it could not have gone towards the stove. If they keep spending because "it was only x and wouldn't have paid for a stove anyway", they will never afford a stove!

Somebody missed the "/s" sarcasm marker...

DAMMIT!

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5899 on: June 10, 2020, 11:12:47 PM »
@AnnaGrowsAMustache , we still love you!