Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 638798 times)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #550 on: October 09, 2015, 03:39:19 PM »
My closest friend during the end of college had a similar issue with his father.  The dad sold his business for 2 million and retired into option/day trading.  4-5 years later he was broke and had lost everything.  The rest of the family was clueless until everything had already fallen apart and their dad was addicted to alcohol / drugs.  Obviously this is an extreme case, but it can happen.

I hope you can sit down and help your parents out, or at least warn them of the dangers.

This is one of the things that often happens when two halves of a married couple aren't equal partners and decision makers in the money management and investment department.
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merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #551 on: October 09, 2015, 04:02:31 PM »
They could potentially be retired right now if they followed MMM principals.

I'm struggling with whether this is a typo or not, as it's true either way.

ash7962

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #552 on: October 11, 2015, 12:12:23 PM »
Update on the above where my dad sold off his VTI position @ 97.88$.  I had an in person convo with dad yesterday. 
I asked about dad selling all their VTI shares as well as why he was had been selling shares then buying them back later in the day or a couple days later.  He told me that he was selling/buying to "adjust their position".  Then he told me that he needed to sell the VTI so that he'd have the cash to cover his options positions which have made up for the 20k dip in VTI.  He said VTI was going down and he expects it to keep going down, so it was smart to sell.  I told him he was just back in the same position he was in right before he lost the 30k earlier in the year, but he tells me its different now because he also has money invested in bonds.  At that point I was pretty much done.  Its also worth noting that my mom had no idea he had done any of it.  I've decided there is nothing I can do with dad and I will just remove myself from their financial life.  This is a bit of speculation, but I think he trades in options because he can't stomach waiting for the total market to go up and believes he can make money faster with options.  I honestly hope he lucks out and 20 years from now will be able to say he told me so.

Fun side stories:
#1: When they first picked me up from the train station my mom tells me they were thinking about trading in their ~13 year old van for a new hybrid car (they'd do this in a year or two).  They say its time because the van will be about 15 years old which is long enough to have a car.  The car has 65k miles on it and they don't even need 2 cars because they live within a 15 minute walk of both my mom's house and the grocery store.

#2: We were getting pizza and going to see a movie to celebrate mine and my mom's birthday.  After we had pizza we walked to the nearby walgreens for some movie candy.  We were all standing in the candy aisle and talking about how we were so full from the pizza and not in the mood for candy.  My SO and I opted to not get any, so we wandered off while my parents decided.  They walked out of the aisle a couple minutes later with 4 boxes of candy because there was a 4 for x dollars deal so just had to take advantage of it.

regulator

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #553 on: October 11, 2015, 03:42:57 PM »
I have one.  Dad called me this morning to ask about his life insurance policy (fun times on Sunday morning).  He has an old (20+ years) universal life policy still kicking around which he frankly does not need.  The policy has a 70k cash value and a 200k face value, but he was finally worried about it because in his most recent statement the interest no longer covers the annual policy charges.  I told him he should think about cashing it in.  "But then mom won't get 200k when I die."  Yes, dad, but instead you will get 70k which can be invested since you don't really need the money.  "But we will spend it if we cash in the policy."  I facepalm.

As is usual with Dad (who always wants to buy at the top and sell at the bottom), I think I will nudge him around to the right decision after a few tries and several aggravating phone calls.  But I have not gotten him to get the idea of time value of money in 15 years of trying.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #554 on: October 11, 2015, 07:16:35 PM »
Hi Joe Average

They are not doing your sister any favours by having her as the favoured child.  Look at her financial situation and entitled child.  Much as it hurts you at times, you are building a better life than she is.

Thanks. parents are off at sister's new (as in different) abode this weekend. I'm sure I'll hear when the parents get back how everything is shiny and better than average. Don't care either way. Glad she has a roof over her head and a job. Maybe living out of state will be good for her (them all). Haven't heard from her but once since last Christmas. Not that I'm making any efforts either.

PencilThinStash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #555 on: October 12, 2015, 02:22:01 PM »
Short version:

Grandpa is hesitant about the big family beach vacation this year, says that he's worried about it getting too expensive. The rest of us realize that every year, in addition to himself and Grandma, he's also been paying the expenses for several aunts and one of my cousins.

We all start discussing. The aunts (mid 50's) agree that they can afford their own share of the beach house, if the alternative is no vacation.

When my cousin was told that she'd have to pay for part of the vacation this year, she started getting worried.  "Is Grandpa having financial trouble? Is that why we're all pitching in to help cover his share?" Keep in mind - this cousin is 30 years old, married (DUAL INCOME!), with 3 kids.

She doesn't understand why an 85 year old retiree on a fixed income isn't paying for their vacation.

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #556 on: October 13, 2015, 06:51:28 AM »
Short version:

Grandpa is hesitant about the big family beach vacation this year, says that he's worried about it getting too expensive. The rest of us realize that every year, in addition to himself and Grandma, he's also been paying the expenses for several aunts and one of my cousins.

We all start discussing. The aunts (mid 50's) agree that they can afford their own share of the beach house, if the alternative is no vacation.

When my cousin was told that she'd have to pay for part of the vacation this year, she started getting worried.  "Is Grandpa having financial trouble? Is that why we're all pitching in to help cover his share?" Keep in mind - this cousin is 30 years old, married (DUAL INCOME!), with 3 kids.

She doesn't understand why an 85 year old retiree on a fixed income isn't paying for their vacation.

You are better than me. I'd be happy to inform any of my cousins that they are fucking retarded if they expect my grandmother to do that for them. Sad part is, my grandmother already does way too much for people. :(

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #557 on: October 13, 2015, 09:12:12 AM »
Short version:

Grandpa is hesitant about the big family beach vacation this year, says that he's worried about it getting too expensive. The rest of us realize that every year, in addition to himself and Grandma, he's also been paying the expenses for several aunts and one of my cousins.

We all start discussing. The aunts (mid 50's) agree that they can afford their own share of the beach house, if the alternative is no vacation.

When my cousin was told that she'd have to pay for part of the vacation this year, she started getting worried.  "Is Grandpa having financial trouble? Is that why we're all pitching in to help cover his share?" Keep in mind - this cousin is 30 years old, married (DUAL INCOME!), with 3 kids.

She doesn't understand why an 85 year old retiree on a fixed income isn't paying for their vacation.

You are better than me. I'd be happy to inform any of my cousins that they are fucking retarded if they expect my grandmother to do that for them. Sad part is, my grandmother already does way too much for people. :(

Yup, I'm somewhat proud of myself of saying that I can't go on vacation with a bunch of my family for Christmas. They are going to an all-inclusive resort in Mexico for a week. I barely spend money on vacation for myself and spending a week with family is far from what I would consider to be relaxing or entertaining. If it was at someone's house that would be one thing, but to spend a ton of money to stay at a resort is worse. I'm glad my parents haven't offered to pay and that most of the family hasn't lobbied me to go (they can get pretty crafty at this). Also, I do feel guilty but my parents and sister are going to go to my brother's place for Thanksgiving. To go I would need to fly out on Wednesday and fly back at the latest on Sunday, when tickets would be insane, and I couldn't justify it. I'll send an email apology to my brother and spend Thanksgiving with a good friend, but yeah I'm not going to let someone pay for my vacation.

frugalparagon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #558 on: October 13, 2015, 05:23:52 PM »
I let my family pay for my vacation. They can afford it. I can't. They want to see me. I want to see them. We My mom pays most of it, my aunt chips in, and my grandfather usually fronts some, too. I think he's paying for most of it next year to get us to come to a beach more conveniently located for him. (Our habit is to rent a large beach house. We go out for some meals, generally paid for by Aunt as she's the restaurant fiend, and my dad cooks most of the meals at the house.)

I budget a few hundred dollars. My mom will always demure when I leap out at the gas station with my credit card, but I assure her that I have a vacation budget and will stop offering to pay for things once I reach it. It works for us.

I wonder if part of the dynamic with the cousin who's worried about paying is in her marriage. My husband does not entirely approve of our booze-heavy beach vacations (which he does not attend, by his own choice) and with our limited funds, he would be very opposed to my laying them out on this trip. There can be a funny dynamic between one's spouse and one's family of origin.
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PencilThinStash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #559 on: October 14, 2015, 09:25:13 AM »
I let my family pay for my vacation. They can afford it. I can't. They want to see me. I want to see them.

I totally get that - I guess my shock just came from the fact that nobody's ever reevaluated how vacations get paid for. We started doing this 20 years ago, and based on a group of 15 and everyone's financial positions at the time, it made sense for my dad to pay for 1/3 of the house (his group of 5), my uncle to pay 1/3 (ditto), and Grandpa to pay 1/3. The 2 aunts and my cousin wouldn't have been able to come otherwise. We're a pretty close family, we wanted everyone there.

Not a big deal when Grandpa's working, all the cousins are 10 or under, and you're staying in a cramped little house a couple blocks back from the beach.

But when the house has ballooned to an extravagant monstrosity right on the water? When the group has expanded and grown up (half of the cousins are out of college and working now), and nobody is riding the line of destitution anymore... an even 3 way split doesn't make sense at this point

My dad approached me, my uncle approached 2 of his kids, and asked if we were willing to pitch in for our own share of the house. Granted, the 3 of us are splitting a single room with 2 sets of bunk beds. Each of us covering 1/3 of a single bedroom, in an 8 bedroom house, isn't huge money. Still, we're functional, working adults. It was actually a little surprising that we haven't been asked to contribute sooner (and after discussing it internally, the sanity of the older generation is now in question for letting this go on for so long).

I get that my cousin is needing to pay for multiple rooms (1 for her and husband, 1 for 3 kids), compared to my little portion of one room, but come on. The fact that she committed to the vacation, and then backed out the minute she found out she'd have to pay for it? And has since refused to talk to specific family members that she blames for shaking everything up? It's f'ing petulant.

/rant

Hell, maybe it's responsible that she backed out, and they really can't afford it. Better than putting it on credit cards, I guess.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #560 on: October 14, 2015, 09:51:00 AM »

I totally get that - I guess my shock just came from the fact that nobody's ever reevaluated how vacations get paid for.

THIS!!! I had my vacations paid for when I was growing up and in college, I get that. But some people seem to think some magical vacation fairy just pays for everything. I always understood that my parents paid for my vacations and appreciate it, they did so because they enjoyed having me. Now that I am earning my own money, I'm expected to pay my own way, and I completely understand. I like that they recognize that I may not spend the money to fly out as a result. I'm just glad that they haven't tried to offer to pay for me to go.

AllieVaulter

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #561 on: October 14, 2015, 10:38:19 AM »
My parents both retired this year and they want to pay for a family vacation.  It's weird.  They haven't paid for me to go on a vacation in 10 years.  But they really want to cover the expenses.  I felt really weird for a while, but I've decided to just go with it.  They budgeted for this vacation, it's their retirement celebration, and to be honest if I were paying, I probably wouldn't go.  We're going to Disneyland & Legoland.  I'm pretty sure they picked the location for maximum enjoyment of the two grandkids.  :)

maco

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #562 on: October 14, 2015, 10:42:32 AM »
I let my family pay for my vacation. They can afford it. I can't. They want to see me. I want to see them.

I totally get that - I guess my shock just came from the fact that nobody's ever reevaluated how vacations get paid for. We started doing this 20 years ago, and based on a group of 15 and everyone's financial positions at the time, it made sense for my dad to pay for 1/3 of the house (his group of 5), my uncle to pay 1/3 (ditto), and Grandpa to pay 1/3. The 2 aunts and my cousin wouldn't have been able to come otherwise. We're a pretty close family, we wanted everyone there.

Not a big deal when Grandpa's working, all the cousins are 10 or under, and you're staying in a cramped little house a couple blocks back from the beach.
I'm confused that the conversation with the one who balked couldn't be as short as "you're a grown up now, and grown ups pay for themselves."

The first family reunion after I turned 18, I was expected to pay my way (as opposed to the family reunion where I turned 18...fun little quirk of timing that my birthday-and-leaving-early-to-move-into-a-dorm was during the reunion).  My dad sent an email to my siblings and I that said "ok, reunion is $date. We're in cabin X. Remember, it's $Y/person."

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #563 on: October 14, 2015, 10:51:04 AM »
My parents both retired this year and they want to pay for a family vacation.  It's weird.  They haven't paid for me to go on a vacation in 10 years.  But they really want to cover the expenses.  I felt really weird for a while, but I've decided to just go with it.  They budgeted for this vacation, it's their retirement celebration, and to be honest if I were paying, I probably wouldn't go.  We're going to Disneyland & Legoland.  I'm pretty sure they picked the location for maximum enjoyment of the two grandkids.  :)
This could be something they really want to do, or it could also be something all their friends are doing. It's kind of a thing with their generation, though usually centered around major anniversaries and involving cruises. If it's not going to derail their retirement, go with the flow and enjoy the trip as much as possible. Let them worry about the costs. They earned the money, they're free to spend it any way they want. Sure, you would get more enjoyment value for the equivalent amount of cash, but just try to let go of that thought for the duration of the trip. I realize that's the conclusion you've already drawn, this is just to reinforce your (correct) decision.
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mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #564 on: October 14, 2015, 11:00:29 AM »
Meh--different strokes for different folks.

My grandpa always paid the way for the family vacations--he owned the lake house, he insisted on paying, on going to the country club and putting it on his bill, etc. If he wasn't there (this one location) and another family was, he'd insist on giving the family some money for meals. He also wanted everyone to use his boat.

He always said the place was best investment he ever made--he may never have seen any positive returns on it (I'm sure he didn't), but he was right. I'm very good friends with my siblings and my cousins and my aunts and uncles because of it. And he could afford it, so what did it matter? He and my grandma got immeasurable joy out of seeing his family enjoying something he provided.

Now 2/5 of his kids have bought a place there since he sold his, and another is trying to (knock on wood the deal comes through). And I can already tell it will be the same deal for this next generation.

My wife's family, they could not afford it, so they all went in together and everyone paid their way evenly. It made for a lot more contention and strife, but I think that was unavoidable due to some other family dynamics. I wouldn't ever do that though.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #565 on: October 15, 2015, 08:57:45 AM »
We have a second home/rental property that's one of the smallest homes in a beach community made up mostly of summer rentals. Our four-bedroom, 1,300 square foot home sleeps 10 but many similar homes have been torn down and replaced by 10-bedroom monsters. (If you saw the short-lived HBO series Hung, we're basically Thomas Jane's house.)

I've often wondered who the heck pays the $10K to $20K per week that larger homes command in peak season. Reading this board, I'm starting to understand.

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soupcxan

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #566 on: October 15, 2015, 11:18:56 AM »
my parents and sister are going to go to my brother's place for Thanksgiving. To go I would need to fly out on Wednesday and fly back at the latest on Sunday, when tickets would be insane, and I couldn't justify it.

Personally, I'd rather have some good experiences with family versus a big pile of money. People are not around forever. If you just don't like your family, then that's a different issue.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #567 on: October 15, 2015, 11:26:10 AM »
We have a second home/rental property that's one of the smallest homes in a beach community made up mostly of summer rentals. Our four-bedroom, 1,300 square foot home sleeps 10 but many similar homes have been torn down and replaced by 10-bedroom monsters. (If you saw the short-lived HBO series Hung, we're basically Thomas Jane's house.)

I've often wondered who the heck pays the $10K to $20K per week that larger homes command in peak season. Reading this board, I'm starting to understand.

I haven't ever rented a house for a vacation, but it might make a lot of sense for a big family. You get a good location, the overall rate might be cheaper than getting a hotel, and you can cook more of your meals.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #568 on: October 15, 2015, 11:26:50 AM »
Update on the above where my dad sold off his VTI position @ 97.88$.  I had an in person convo with dad yesterday. 
I asked about dad selling all their VTI shares as well as why he was had been selling shares then buying them back later in the day or a couple days later.  He told me that he was selling/buying to "adjust their position".  Then he told me that he needed to sell the VTI so that he'd have the cash to cover his options positions which have made up for the 20k dip in VTI.  He said VTI was going down and he expects it to keep going down, so it was smart to sell.  I told him he was just back in the same position he was in right before he lost the 30k earlier in the year, but he tells me its different now because he also has money invested in bonds.  At that point I was pretty much done.  Its also worth noting that my mom had no idea he had done any of it.  I've decided there is nothing I can do with dad and I will just remove myself from their financial life.  This is a bit of speculation, but I think he trades in options because he can't stomach waiting for the total market to go up and believes he can make money faster with options.  I honestly hope he lucks out and 20 years from now will be able to say he told me so.

This is why Bogle really doesn't like ETFs.  It's too easy and quick for people to just get in there and muck around spur-of-the-moment.  Maybe not on MMM, but the majority of the people who use ETFs instead of standard index mutual funds end up losing in the long run.
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UnleashHell

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #569 on: October 15, 2015, 11:52:47 AM »
We have a second home/rental property that's one of the smallest homes in a beach community made up mostly of summer rentals. Our four-bedroom, 1,300 square foot home sleeps 10 but many similar homes have been torn down and replaced by 10-bedroom monsters. (If you saw the short-lived HBO series Hung, we're basically Thomas Jane's house.)

I've often wondered who the heck pays the $10K to $20K per week that larger homes command in peak season. Reading this board, I'm starting to understand.

I haven't ever rented a house for a vacation, but it might make a lot of sense for a big family. You get a good location, the overall rate might be cheaper than getting a hotel, and you can cook more of your meals.

A few year back we had visitors over from the UK. And their kids. They had 4 kids. We had 3.

Instead of all staying in our house and having 11 people being cramped for two weeks we rented a house on Cape cod.  Older one, set inland a bit but still walkable to the beach, local village. The upstairs was basically two dorms plus a bathroom either side. That was the boys and girls sorted.
Downstairs was living quarters and 3 double bedrooms. Outside was a huge grass area and a pool (unheated).
Pretty damn basic for the cape. My son brought a friend (as he was younger than the other kids) plus my eldest brought her boyfriend.
13 people on cape cod for a week in a house with a pool. Total cost was just over $2,000
Hotels/motels wouldn’t have worked for the same price (if they could even be found).

Everyone got on great (so many teenagers!!) and the holiday was a fantastic success. Absolutely worth doing.
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maco

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #570 on: October 15, 2015, 11:57:11 AM »
We have a second home/rental property that's one of the smallest homes in a beach community made up mostly of summer rentals. Our four-bedroom, 1,300 square foot home sleeps 10 but many similar homes have been torn down and replaced by 10-bedroom monsters. (If you saw the short-lived HBO series Hung, we're basically Thomas Jane's house.)

I've often wondered who the heck pays the $10K to $20K per week that larger homes command in peak season. Reading this board, I'm starting to understand.

I haven't ever rented a house for a vacation, but it might make a lot of sense for a big family. You get a good location, the overall rate might be cheaper than getting a hotel, and you can cook more of your meals.
My extended family (dad's generation and mine) would jointly rent a 3-4 bedroom condo each year for summer vacation (really unlikely for that much money, though). Hotels don't usually have kitchens, whereas in a condo we can pop two casseroles in the oven and feed all 25 of us. Kids sleep on the floor.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 07:05:06 PM by maco »

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #571 on: October 15, 2015, 11:58:53 AM »
We have a second home/rental property that's one of the smallest homes in a beach community made up mostly of summer rentals. Our four-bedroom, 1,300 square foot home sleeps 10 but many similar homes have been torn down and replaced by 10-bedroom monsters. (If you saw the short-lived HBO series Hung, we're basically Thomas Jane's house.)

I've often wondered who the heck pays the $10K to $20K per week that larger homes command in peak season. Reading this board, I'm starting to understand.

I haven't ever rented a house for a vacation, but it might make a lot of sense for a big family. You get a good location, the overall rate might be cheaper than getting a hotel, and you can cook more of your meals.

I cant say anything about 20k/wk but my extended family rented a house for a common vacation-get together; want to say it was like 3k for the week with 4 bedrooms located no where to special, 3k with a kitchen, living room etc is way better than a hotel.  This vacation solidified my opinion that one of my aunts will always see me as a helpless little ignorant kid never mind my age, occupation, other life accomplishments or that I put more than my 'fair share' towards the house.  Remembering her perspective of me has helped me deal with her.  More back on topic I think grandpa paid for most of the travel expenses for everyone (rental house was sort of near him), then the more financially established persons paid for a bit more of the food and expenses than my younger cousin in there mid/early 20's.  Seemed to workout.
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Pooperman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #572 on: October 15, 2015, 12:06:49 PM »
Yup. Cape Cod rental for many years (presumably my grandparents paid). No idea the cost. They bought a place there when I was barely a teen instead of renting. Cousins from Europe came every year for a while (4 cousins + aunt + sometimes uncle). Max ever would have been 15 I think. Stayed there a month over the summer a few years. Good times.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #573 on: October 16, 2015, 11:19:04 AM »
Last year we went to Santa Barbara for a week with another couple. Hotels were crazy expensive & we rented a nice house with a fenced in yard that was fully furnished for $1800.00. Much cheaper & nicer. We also cooked most of our meals. Then some other friends would come down for a day or 2 & we had room to put them up.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #574 on: October 21, 2015, 09:33:49 AM »
Have never vacationed with my family and sibling's family. Everyone always needs to "get away" alone... If you knew the family you'd understand. Goofy people. We hardly see each other anymore and that's okay. Am coming up on the "annual" sibling phone call in a couple of months. ;)

My inlaws have always vacationed like this. Its a hoot! As time has passed though many of the kids are at that phase in life where it is hard to get much time off from entry level jobs and they aren't making much dough. MiL/FiL are retired so they can't float anyone's expenses. DW and I can certainly cover our family's expenses but the other sibling inlaw's are financially treading water recently.

We vacationed alone this year with our kids. It was nice though. Lots of good memories for certain. Stayed in a very nice 1 bedroom near the beach. Did a mix of free museums, free beach, eating out, cooking in, and a couple of nights of touristy stuff (minigolf and go-carts). A+ time.

We missed the chaos of all the extended family kids collectively running in and out to the pools and the beach on a big family vacation. Am hoping that at some point we can do a group vacation again. The last time was a ~$3500 house that I would describe as luxury near the beach. We paid our portion but I think I recall our portion being returned to us b/c my FiL floated other family members' expenses so they could attend. Frankly I wish they would have kept our money.

Still cheaper than motels/hotels as already described. The group ate in alot. Wife and I generally did cheap stuff like beach, bikes, board games, etc during the day. Others did their usual shopping and tourist destination stuff.

onehair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #575 on: October 23, 2015, 09:40:16 AM »
Finally!! An update on my aunt who has as much sense as a dead gopher.  My mom had taken a break from her in order to tend to her own business.  While over my late grandmother's house my aunt proceeded to berate my mother that the house was falling to pieces (my mom tried to talk my grandmother into basic repairs but my aunt immediately talked her out of them), that she was glad Grandma didn't live to see the house deteriorating etc.  Then she asked for a second time to move in with my mom,stepfather and sister. My mom gave her a blank stare. So far she hasn't applied for any housing services, nor any type of job , saved nothingand now has reluctantly begun paying car insurance so she can drive again though before she was happy to let my mom pay it.

rob in cal

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #576 on: October 24, 2015, 03:30:19 PM »
    I mentioned our potential FIRE, or partially FIRE possibilities coming up over the next few years to my comfortably retired FIL. I got the sense that I was speaking a different language to him. He didn't even ask me for details of my projections or anything.  More as if I was talking about running for congress and hoping to become speaker of the house in 2018 or something.

onehair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #577 on: October 27, 2015, 09:54:10 AM »
My aunt is also claiming she cannot find an apartment in the DC area for below $1500 a month.  Before it was $2000!  I gleefully informed my mother that she was lying...The affordable apartments are in the dodgy parts of town true but they are there.  And out of $750 a month she allegedly receives from her retirement she now pays for expensive cable, car insurance plus her monthly storage fee.  I don't know how much she has left every month but it is no wonder she is broke.

maco

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #578 on: October 27, 2015, 10:10:13 AM »
My aunt is also claiming she cannot find an apartment in the DC area for below $1500 a month.  Before it was $2000!  I gleefully informed my mother that she was lying...The affordable apartments are in the dodgy parts of town true but they are there.  And out of $750 a month she allegedly receives from her retirement she now pays for expensive cable, car insurance plus her monthly storage fee.  I don't know how much she has left every month but it is no wonder she is broke.
The not-dodgy-area way is to rent a basement a 10 minute walk from Wheaton station.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #579 on: October 27, 2015, 11:02:31 AM »
My aunt is also claiming she cannot find an apartment in the DC area for below $1500 a month.  Before it was $2000!  I gleefully informed my mother that she was lying...The affordable apartments are in the dodgy parts of town true but they are there.  And out of $750 a month she allegedly receives from her retirement she now pays for expensive cable, car insurance plus her monthly storage fee.  I don't know how much she has left every month but it is no wonder she is broke.

She is retired and trying to live in DC, I hope there is a compelling reason like family? 
Be the person Mr. Rogers knows you can be.

onehair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #580 on: October 27, 2015, 01:27:20 PM »
Living here on a limited budget can be done.  It isn't easy but it can be done.  I managed making $22000 with two small children at the time.  The expensive parts of town are very expensive but you have to live on what you have not what you wish you had.    My aunt wants to have it all.  She wants to use her money for her neverending wants and for my mom to pay the major bills.  If she found a part time job you can get work online now if she doesn't trust her legs anymore she could afford to stay in the house and if she practiced a little frugality as well.  Why should we pay for her poor choices?  If she was a nicer person we would take her in and so would my mother but she constantly argues, complains, begs for rides and seems allergic to housework and yardwork.  There are certain programs she qualifies for and won't apply for them.    That car would be gone yesterday if I were her.  She has access to several great bus lines and the subway.

jollygreen23

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #581 on: October 27, 2015, 02:42:57 PM »
My cousin (age 20) just got married a couple of weeks ago. My grandparents are building/gifting them a small home on their property as a wedding gift. (Whatever. It's their money. I think it robs them of growing experience as a couple, but they can do what they want.) Anyway, the new bride just posted on facebook that she bought a "gently used" 2015 Kia for $14,000.

My husband used to own a business that worked closely with car lots. His experience with Kias hasn't been great. Brand new cars will need something repaired/replaced within 6 months. I'm assuming that's what happened to this "gently used" 2015 car. It just breaks my heart that they took out a $14k loan for a money-suck.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #582 on: October 27, 2015, 02:57:25 PM »
My cousin (age 20) just got married a couple of weeks ago. My grandparents are building/gifting them a small home on their property as a wedding gift. (Whatever. It's their money. I think it robs them of growing experience as a couple, but they can do what they want.) Anyway, the new bride just posted on facebook that she bought a "gently used" 2015 Kia for $14,000.

My husband used to own a business that worked closely with car lots. His experience with Kias hasn't been great. Brand new cars will need something repaired/replaced within 6 months. I'm assuming that's what happened to this "gently used" 2015 car. It just breaks my heart that they took out a $14k loan for a money-suck.

Kia's are not as bad as they used to be; I wouldn't even call them bad anymore. Aside from that, a 2015 will still have a LOT of warranty left.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #583 on: October 27, 2015, 03:17:41 PM »
you have to live on what you have not what you wish you had.

Great quote.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #584 on: October 27, 2015, 06:02:28 PM »
My aunt is also claiming she cannot find an apartment in the DC area for below $1500 a month.  Before it was $2000!  I gleefully informed my mother that she was lying...The affordable apartments are in the dodgy parts of town true but they are there.  And out of $750 a month she allegedly receives from her retirement she now pays for expensive cable, car insurance plus her monthly storage fee.  I don't know how much she has left every month but it is no wonder she is broke.

If those are her priorities, perhaps she will live in her car or in her storage space?

Capsu78

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #585 on: October 27, 2015, 07:03:00 PM »
My cousin (age 20) just got married a couple of weeks ago. My grandparents are building/gifting them a small home on their property as a wedding gift. (Whatever. It's their money. I think it robs them of growing experience as a couple, but they can do what they want.) Anyway, the new bride just posted on facebook that she bought a "gently used" 2015 Kia for $14,000.

My husband used to own a business that worked closely with car lots. His experience with Kias hasn't been great. Brand new cars will need something repaired/replaced within 6 months. I'm assuming that's what happened to this "gently used" 2015 car. It just breaks my heart that they took out a $14k loan for a money-suck.

Kia's are not as bad as they used to be; I wouldn't even call them bad anymore. Aside from that, a 2015 will still have a LOT of warranty left.

I bought my college daughter a Kia and actually had a very good response to warranty issues- they replaced the entire exhaust system at 55,000 miles- no charge.  However, it "up and died" in the 90,000 mile range so I don't expect Toyota or Honda longevity to 200K.  Al in all a "square and fair" deal for a $13,000 car that served its purpose.   

Silverwood

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #586 on: October 27, 2015, 08:41:16 PM »
Considering that I paid $15000  for my honda civic that was a year old when I bought it and is still going at 180 000 km, that's not a good deal.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #587 on: October 27, 2015, 08:44:40 PM »
Considering that I paid $15000  for my honda civic that was a year old when I bought it and is still going at 180 000 km, that's not a good deal.

IMO you got the better deal, but logically that doesn't mean that the other person made a bad deal. Now if he were offered both, then yes.

Silverwood

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #588 on: October 27, 2015, 10:54:23 PM »
Yeah , that's true. You have to do the best that you can with what you're given.  I was just thinking it's one of those situations where a little extra money and you have a better quality product.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #589 on: October 28, 2015, 07:28:53 AM »
^ Good point.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #590 on: October 28, 2015, 08:14:33 AM »
Considering that I paid $15000  for my honda civic that was a year old when I bought it and is still going at 180 000 km, that's not a good deal.

IMO you got the better deal, but logically that doesn't mean that the other person made a bad deal. Now if he were offered both, then yes.

On top of that, that car that Silverwood bought was probably... what, a 2004 or so? The quality has vastly improved since then. Seriously. I'd be shocked if a new one died at 90K with regular oil changes.

Stashaholic

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #591 on: October 28, 2015, 02:11:55 PM »
MIL and FIL are some of the nicest people i know but unfortunately extremely bad with money. In just a couple of years...

- Borrowed $5k from a payday loan two years ago (didn't know you can go that high!) with 10% monthly interest and full amount must be paid or just the minimum of $500/mo interest until you can pay in full. All to finance entertain visiting family from another country for a couple of weeks! Luckily she received a small inheritance recently, enough to pay the loan back two years later, but after already paying in $12k in interest!

- A year ago, borrowed some more money, about $3k, from a relative because of a couple more relatives coming over for another two weeks. All this while still owing $5k on payday loans and paying $500/mo on it! Luckily inheritance covered it too.

- Borrowed $5k from 401k to entertain guests and help daughter in a wedding they already paid for. Still paying for it.

- Bought a $1000 water filter a few years ago (i think from a friend in a MLM) and after just a few months of use, decided that bottled water was better and no longer uses it.

- Went to a trip early this year, two months ago and going to another trip before the year ends using money I'm sure she doesn't have. Or maybe she figured it can be paid off with the newly freed cash flow from paying off the payday loan.

... and many more but I have to end my post at some point.

Kaspian

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #592 on: October 28, 2015, 02:32:22 PM »
MIL and FIL are some of the nicest people i know but unfortunately extremely bad with money. In just a couple of years...

- Borrowed $5k... to finance entertain visiting family ...

- borrowed... about $3k because of a couple more relatives coming over

- Borrowed $5k... to entertain guests


Holy smokes--I'm going to visit your in-laws!!  Sounds like they put on one hell of a good party,
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Silverwood

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #593 on: October 28, 2015, 08:54:59 PM »
Considering that I paid $15000  for my honda civic that was a year old when I bought it and is still going at 180 000 km, that's not a good deal.

IMO you got the better deal, but logically that doesn't mean that the other person made a bad deal. Now if he were offered both, then yes.

On top of that, that car that Silverwood bought was probably... what, a 2004 or so? The quality has vastly improved since then. Seriously. I'd be shocked if a new one died at 90K with regular oil changes.


Close. 2003 :)

Rural

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #594 on: October 29, 2015, 05:34:55 PM »
My cousin (age 20) just got married a couple of weeks ago. My grandparents are building/gifting them a small home on their property as a wedding gift. (Whatever. It's their money. I think it robs them of growing experience as a couple, but they can do what they want.) Anyway, the new bride just posted on facebook that she bought a "gently used" 2015 Kia for $14,000.

My husband used to own a business that worked closely with car lots. His experience with Kias hasn't been great. Brand new cars will need something repaired/replaced within 6 months. I'm assuming that's what happened to this "gently used" 2015 car. It just breaks my heart that they took out a $14k loan for a money-suck.

Kia's are not as bad as they used to be; I wouldn't even call them bad anymore. Aside from that, a 2015 will still have a LOT of warranty left.

I bought my college daughter a Kia and actually had a very good response to warranty issues- they replaced the entire exhaust system at 55,000 miles- no charge.  However, it "up and died" in the 90,000 mile range so I don't expect Toyota or Honda longevity to 200K.  Al in all a "square and fair" deal for a $13,000 car that served its purpose.


 I don't know. I might've agreed with you before I bought a 2003 Kia Rio with nearly a hundred thousand miles on it (for $1200, the trade-in value, because I bought it from my parents) and put another 140 thousand miles on it. Thinking of retiring it now,  but I've been really pleasantly surprised.

franklin w. dixon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #595 on: November 11, 2015, 07:07:18 PM »
I don't know how you live paycheck-to-paycheck on $400k unless you have a gambling addiction. There's a physical limit to how much money you can snort, guzzle, or smoke, but there's no limit on how much the casino will take.

Private school for two kids - $50k/yr. Taxes - $150k/yr. House - $100k/yr. Food - $20k/yr. Utilities $20k/yr. "Entertainment"/Vacations/Cars/Etc - $60k/yr. Total, $400k.

Aren't school districts one of the reasons that couples buy houses in nicer areas? I think it's crazy to live in a nice school district AND send your kids to private school.
Even at a wealthy public school, there's still a chance your child might see a black person. For America's well-to-do, that's simply too great a risk.

infogoon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #596 on: November 12, 2015, 06:46:31 AM »
Aren't school districts one of the reasons that couples buy houses in nicer areas? I think it's crazy to live in a nice school district AND send your kids to private school.
Even at a wealthy public school, there's still a chance your child might see a black person. For America's well-to-do, that's simply too great a risk.
[/quote]

Some friends of ours bought a house in a high-tax suburb because they don't want to live in the city with us plebes. Their kids go to a private school here in the city.

Pooperman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #597 on: November 12, 2015, 07:03:28 AM »
I don't know how you live paycheck-to-paycheck on $400k unless you have a gambling addiction. There's a physical limit to how much money you can snort, guzzle, or smoke, but there's no limit on how much the casino will take.

Private school for two kids - $50k/yr. Taxes - $150k/yr. House - $100k/yr. Food - $20k/yr. Utilities $20k/yr. "Entertainment"/Vacations/Cars/Etc - $60k/yr. Total, $400k.

Aren't school districts one of the reasons that couples buy houses in nicer areas? I think it's crazy to live in a nice school district AND send your kids to private school.
Even at a wealthy public school, there's still a chance your child might see a black person. For America's well-to-do, that's simply too great a risk.

Sort story time. I went to a private school until 8th grade. Diversity was 2 asian kids in a class of 35 total. School is in a totally white neighborhood, and I live in a different, totally white neighborhood. I was in 5th grade when I first met a black person. Seriously. I'd seen some before, but it was the first time I had any interaction. Class went on a field trip to the Bronx Botanical Garden (an awesome place). One of the private black schools from Harlem I think was also there. One of the black kids said to one of my classmates: "what are you lookin' at? You ain't never seen a black person before?" Something to that effect anyways. I remember it because it made me realize how cocooned I was for much of my early life.

On the other hand, the education in the private school was certainly better than at even really good public schools. When I transferred out to public later, I was significantly ahead in a lot of areas and very well rounded overall. Plus, I got lots of opportunities I never would have had in public school until much later on if ever (like throwing javelin).

maco

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #598 on: November 12, 2015, 08:53:27 AM »
I don't know how you live paycheck-to-paycheck on $400k unless you have a gambling addiction. There's a physical limit to how much money you can snort, guzzle, or smoke, but there's no limit on how much the casino will take.

Private school for two kids - $50k/yr. Taxes - $150k/yr. House - $100k/yr. Food - $20k/yr. Utilities $20k/yr. "Entertainment"/Vacations/Cars/Etc - $60k/yr. Total, $400k.

Aren't school districts one of the reasons that couples buy houses in nicer areas? I think it's crazy to live in a nice school district AND send your kids to private school.
Even at a wealthy public school, there's still a chance your child might see a black person. For America's well-to-do, that's simply too great a risk.

Sort story time. I went to a private school until 8th grade. Diversity was 2 asian kids in a class of 35 total. School is in a totally white neighborhood, and I live in a different, totally white neighborhood. I was in 5th grade when I first met a black person. Seriously. I'd seen some before, but it was the first time I had any interaction. Class went on a field trip to the Bronx Botanical Garden (an awesome place). One of the private black schools from Harlem I think was also there. One of the black kids said to one of my classmates: "what are you lookin' at? You ain't never seen a black person before?" Something to that effect anyways. I remember it because it made me realize how cocooned I was for much of my early life.

On the other hand, the education in the private school was certainly better than at even really good public schools. When I transferred out to public later, I was significantly ahead in a lot of areas and very well rounded overall. Plus, I got lots of opportunities I never would have had in public school until much later on if ever (like throwing javelin).
When I went from private K-8 to public 9-12, I was behind in math, or at least I had passed a class called "algebra" that bore little resemblance to the algebra curriculum. The 8th grade geometry, at least, seemed to be on-par, but I needed tutors in algebra 2 and calculus because private school "algebra" didn't go much beyond "If you add 3 on the left, you do that on the right too."

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #599 on: November 16, 2015, 05:23:34 AM »
My SIL and BIL both have pretty senior jobs with the DoD that require Top Secret clearances.  Best I can tell, they're typical consumers relying on future pensions.  I know they've had some fights over money and spend lavishly by my standards, but nothing ridiculous by normal consumer standards.

Anyways, they had a blow-up fight that nearly led to a divorce and required my wife's parents to fly out and calm them both down.  It turns out, they'd both "forgotten" to file their taxes for the past ~seven years, and were blaming it on each other.  Never mind that they'd only been married ~4 years at that point.

Seriously, how do you forget to FILE taxes?  Particularly when you have to qualify for a TOP SECRET SECURITY CLEARANCE?

They even got a refund of ~$20K+ after handing everything over to an accountant to figure out for them.

How do you work for the government and not file your taxes?!?! For SEVEN YEARS!?!? So dumb.

Of course the reason they were able to get away with it is because they were getting a refund. That was very kind of them to lend the Treasury $20k though.

Sounds like they most likely also GAVE the Treasury ~$25k in addition to the loan. The IRS only gives refunds for the prior 3 years. After that, you're SOL.

A friend of mine did the same thing. I punched everything into TurboTax for her for the current year and prior 2 years at the beginning of April when I discovered this in conversation about filing taxes (very simple returns.) Every one of them was money back, but she couldn't be bothered to search for the information for the final year we could get a refund. I don't know if she had ever filed her taxes....