Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 679414 times)

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2015, 11:59:11 AM »
My future inlaws...

They lost more than 100k to a ponzi scheme many years ago (before I knew them), the leader said he had 'good christian values' so they trusted him.  Now they are involved in a pyramid scheme(life leadership), which couldn't possibly be a scam because it has 'good christian values.  They refuse to see any similarity.  Their kids have all tried to talk them out of this but they refuse to listen.

Recently their business went bankrupt and for whatever reason it wasn't tax shielded, so now they are going bankrupt as well.  Because they have really bad credit history they couldn't get a car loan, so they LEASED a brand new Ford Fusion.  Never mind that they had working cars and could have bought a nicer one with a few months of their lease payments.  They changed their minds and decided they wanted the equity instead so they gave it back(presumably taking whatever penalities as well), and buying a used 2014 Lincoln for 20k! (I can only imagine the terms of this loan...). 

From my understanding this could either completely derail their bankruptcy at worst, get taken back if the court thinks it isn't a reasonable expense, or maybe worst of all, they could agree to keep paying the payments even after they get out of bankruptcy.

I'm scared shitless of having to fund them when they are older.

Decide what the bare minimum life would be (shelter, food, clothing, etc). If they need help with that beyond whatever assistance they can get from the government, you can help if you're able. Beyond that, plead poor.

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2015, 12:15:23 PM »
That's literally the only reason she moved up. Spending an additional 50k just to get adaptive cruise control.

Congratulations. I think you just won this thread.

you know what's better?

$50,000 worth of uber rides.  you dont even have to drive!
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rockstache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2015, 01:02:10 PM »
My future inlaws...

They lost more than 100k to a ponzi scheme many years ago (before I knew them), the leader said he had 'good christian values' so they trusted him.  Now they are involved in a pyramid scheme(life leadership), which couldn't possibly be a scam because it has 'good christian values.  They refuse to see any similarity.  Their kids have all tried to talk them out of this but they refuse to listen.

Recently their business went bankrupt and for whatever reason it wasn't tax shielded, so now they are going bankrupt as well.  Because they have really bad credit history they couldn't get a car loan, so they LEASED a brand new Ford Fusion.  Never mind that they had working cars and could have bought a nicer one with a few months of their lease payments.  They changed their minds and decided they wanted the equity instead so they gave it back(presumably taking whatever penalities as well), and buying a used 2014 Lincoln for 20k! (I can only imagine the terms of this loan...). 

From my understanding this could either completely derail their bankruptcy at worst, get taken back if the court thinks it isn't a reasonable expense, or maybe worst of all, they could agree to keep paying the payments even after they get out of bankruptcy.

I'm scared shitless of having to fund them when they are older.

Decide what the bare minimum life would be (shelter, food, clothing, etc). If they need help with that beyond whatever assistance they can get from the government, you can help if you're able. Beyond that, plead poor.

+1 And make sure you discuss it with future wife and agree pre-marriage.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2015, 01:32:21 PM »
My BIL tells us how he looking to buy an $80k 5th wheel trailer ( for 2 people!) for camping but will also need a new truck.... They have never been camping in a trailer or tent and we have invited them dozens of times.   Same ones who had to borrow money for a medical co-pay
Campers are one of those things that I drool over.  I would love to have a small one that you tow, like a teardrop.  But in order to get a teardrop that is big enough for 4, it will weigh a lot.  And my Matrix won't tow it.  So then we'd need a bigger car to tow it.

I've thought about renting an RV for fun.  They cost approximately $100 a night, maybe a little more, so...why not just stay in a hotel then?
I've almost rented a camper van for fun.  These can be rented for a lot cheaper.  But...the one time I wanted to do it, they would have been closed on the day I needed to return the van.

So...we tent camp.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2015, 03:13:24 PM »
we bought a older used motorhome that had very few miles so it was not expensive. Many people buy them & don't use them much including us.

Syonyk

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2015, 04:24:59 PM »
We'll probably get a decent 5th wheel trailer at some point (and if I have anything to say about it, one that needs a lot of work, which I will happily dive into).  We can tow it, no problems.  My wife & I intend to do a lot of travel with our kids, especially for home schooling, so a trailer makes more sense than hotels if we're spending a month traveling the east coast or the south or such.

My wife's parents (who are amazingly frugal) do have a motor home, but they spend about 2 months of the year traveling the country (they skip out on Idaho in January and go to Arizona, then usually spend another few weeks a year various places in it) - and I think my FIL might stay in it when he's out drilling wells further away so he doesn't have to drive back every night.  I know he's got a trailer house he sticks on site for more distant jobs.
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Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2015, 04:34:27 PM »
WE have not used ours much but now that we have inherited my son's 80lb dog it is too hard to stay in motels since we also have 3 small dogs.  For the first time we plan to travel for a month in May.

Syonyk

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2015, 05:50:37 PM »
I've got ferrets. Same issue. :)
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tmoney

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2015, 07:55:23 PM »
I just thought it was crazy to probably in total spend 130k (trailer and truck) on something you have never done before and claim you have no time for. We have a trailer but we rented one a few times before spending on it and you can pick up some nice used ones from people who bought and never used.

mozar

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2015, 06:29:58 PM »
OK, so I have told my mother and her brothers that I identify as "frugal". Basically as a way to talk about mustachianism without telling them about the early retirement part. My "frugal group" is my beard for mustachianism! Anyways, my aunt in law was bragging to me that her daughter (my cousin) is frugal because her winter coat is 10 years old...my cousin just bought a huge co-op in NYC for $700k. And is spending 30k on a wedding in August. That's really not getting it.
Embracing the absurd condition of human existence while also defiantly continuing to explore and search for meaning

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2015, 07:53:34 AM »
Retirement-aged relatives have a retirement account at a major investment bank, being charged 1% fees. They are big fans of spending money. So I showed them how they could spend MORE money if they just switched to Vanguard. The difference in fees would increase their SWR by 25%. Who doesn't want a 25% raise, right? They agreed my logic was "indisputable".

Later they paid a salesman, er, I mean financial adviser. He talked them into moving their money to the major investment bank he was affiliated with, and putting it into "active management" so they they could "smooth out the downturns if there's another 2008 crash". Yeah, because you know how they can go back and put some extra money in your account after the market crashes, right? Extra stupid because the Vanguard Target Retirement Income Fund is 70% bonds anyway. So they respond favorably to his sales pitch, I mean expert advice, because "he spoke clearly and never stuttered". The fees at this new arrangement will be at least 2%. So instead of a 25% raise, they are giving themselves a 25% paycut.

ash7962

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2015, 10:52:07 AM »
My parents live about 10 mins from a university. My mother works at the university, and my brother gets free tuition.

My brother goes to this university.

My brother also works about 10 mins from my parents house - sweet deal he can basically go in when he has time and make good money.

Here is the crazy part. My brother lived for about 2 school years in an apartment with a bunch of other guys about 10 mins on the other side of the university. Paying for everything - house, food etc. This means that pretty much his entire income from his job was spent on his bills. 

He has finally "run out of money" and moved back in with my parents. I can only imagine how rich he would be if he had just stayed home, did school and worked. Honestly he could have a down payment for a house by now.

I can understand this.  He's young and still has a lot of time to make money and retire early.  PLUS the fact that he got free tuition is already a huge deal.  If I were in his shoes I wouldn't want to live with mom and dad either.  I don't know if your parents are anything like mine, but my parents would probably have been not ok with about 70-80% of what I did at college :).  There are few decisions I made in college that I would change, so I'm pretty sure living apart from them would have happened even if they were 10 min from my college campus.  You could say that living apart from my parents in college was both for me and my parents.

Zamboni

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2015, 08:40:51 PM »
^I agree that living apart from your parents in college at least for a year or two is fine and in many cases a necessary part of really becoming an independent adult.

Quote
Wasting money is kind of a badge of honor for them. They buy all kinds of things they never use, spend more on eating out in a week than we do for all our food for a month, throw away leftovers, upgrade appliances they don't use, etc.

My ex-MIL was like this.  She loved to accumulate stuff she never even took the tags off of, and then she'd showcase those items like they were some sort of valuable artwork.  We helped her clean out her house for a move and it was surreal.  She was also really into purposely cooking (or ordering) way too much and wasting large quantities of food, which bothered me a lot.  Throwing a whole uneaten animal carcass in the trash =/= cool.  Her money train has died (highly disabled vet on a tax free govt disability payment whom she met when she worked in a VA hospital), so not sure if she is still able to keep up her ridiculous, intentionally money-wasting pace anymore.

Geostache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2015, 06:44:59 AM »
Trying to explain the reason behind our house purchase budget to MIL. She keeps arguing "spend more to buy a bigger house" (that I don't need or want) "and you can always sell and buy smaller if you lose your job." Background: I'm a contractor whose job depends solely on one person. The job stability beyond this current project, which may last anywhere from 6-9 years, is uncertain. Thus, we're budgeting to be able to afford a house on one income. SMH.

Syonyk

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2015, 11:26:08 AM »
Well, you know, if you buy a bigger house with a larger mortgage, you can get a larger tax deduction from your mortgage interest!  *nodnod*

(advice from my dad.  I don't get his thing about tax deductions, but he seems to think that if you spend more to get a bigger tax deduction, you somehow come out ahead)
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SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2015, 11:27:55 AM »
Trying to explain the reason behind our house purchase budget to MIL. She keeps arguing "spend more to buy a bigger house" (that I don't need or want) "and you can always sell and buy smaller if you lose your job." Background: I'm a contractor whose job depends solely on one person. The job stability beyond this current project, which may last anywhere from 6-9 years, is uncertain. Thus, we're budgeting to be able to afford a house on one income. SMH.

You can't "sell whenever you want" ... housing bubble is the proof. Tell her she's not getting a MIL suite. Tough shit.
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johnny847

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2015, 01:03:30 PM »
Well, you know, if you buy a bigger house with a larger mortgage, you can get a larger tax deduction from your mortgage interest!  *nodnod*

(advice from my dad.  I don't get his thing about tax deductions, but he seems to think that if you spend more to get a bigger tax deduction, you somehow come out ahead)

I think the simplest way to try to explain this is saying that the tax deduction is like a coupon, with the coupon rate being equal to their marginal tax rate.

But oftentimes when taxes are involved, you're just trying to use logic on someone who refuses to accept it, so it usually falls flat on its face.

Syonyk

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2015, 01:08:02 PM »
"Coupon" - that's what you use to save money at the store, right?  And I'm sure a "coupon rate" is how many of them show up in your mail every week.

"Marginal tax rate" - that's how much tax you pay on margarine, right?  Or maybe maybe it's how much taxes you pay if you're getting really creative with deductions of marginal quality.

:p

Most people don't know what those words mean in that context.  The type of person saying "Yeah, but you can save money with a larger mortgage because you can deduct your interest!" almost certainly doesn't.
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johnny847

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2015, 01:27:17 PM »
"Coupon" - that's what you use to save money at the store, right?  And I'm sure a "coupon rate" is how many of them show up in your mail every week.

"Marginal tax rate" - that's how much tax you pay on margarine, right?  Or maybe maybe it's how much taxes you pay if you're getting really creative with deductions of marginal quality.

:p

Most people don't know what those words mean in that context.  The type of person saying "Yeah, but you can save money with a larger mortgage because you can deduct your interest!" almost certainly doesn't.

I know. I have successfully used this analogy when trying to teach people who have just started learning about taxes and investing. But like I said, it doesn't work for people who just don't care to accept or think critically about what you're trying to say.

Geostache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2015, 07:45:25 AM »
Trying to explain the reason behind our house purchase budget to MIL. She keeps arguing "spend more to buy a bigger house" (that I don't need or want) "and you can always sell and buy smaller if you lose your job." Background: I'm a contractor whose job depends solely on one person. The job stability beyond this current project, which may last anywhere from 6-9 years, is uncertain. Thus, we're budgeting to be able to afford a house on one income. SMH.

You can't "sell whenever you want" ... housing bubble is the proof. Tell her she's not getting a MIL suite. Tough shit.

I've decided it's better to drop the subject altogether. She's what I call a 'rabbit hole' arguer. I can never win, so it's not even worth getting into a debate. Usually I catch myself before I follow her down the rabbit hole. I didn't catch myself that time. *shrugs*

WranglerBowman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2015, 02:43:47 PM »
I'm so tired of both sides of my family (in-laws, blood relatives) making fun of me for; heating my house with wood, turning off lights/electronics when they're not being used, turning the hot water heater temp down, growing my own fruit and vegetables, canning, hunting and butchering my own meat, flipping items on craigslist and doubleing my money almost every time, fixing our own vehicles, driving a 20 yr old station wagon, cutting my hair every 3 months, throwing food scraps in the woods for critters (circle of life...enter Lion King music), composting, keeping the AC at 78, not going out to dinner, etc etc etc...  At the same time the in-laws don't appear very happy that they're daughter married the person described above, because I don't treat her like a princess and blow money on her...she was aware of my frugality since day 1 and she stayed with me...shove it!
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PencilThinStash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2015, 09:57:38 AM »
I'm so tired of both sides of my family (in-laws, blood relatives) making fun of me for; heating my house with wood, turning off lights/electronics when they're not being used, turning the hot water heater temp down, growing my own fruit and vegetables, canning, hunting and butchering my own meat, flipping items on craigslist and doubleing my money almost every time, fixing our own vehicles, driving a 20 yr old station wagon, cutting my hair every 3 months, throwing food scraps in the woods for critters (circle of life...enter Lion King music), composting, keeping the AC at 78, not going out to dinner, etc etc etc...  At the same time the in-laws don't appear very happy that they're daughter married the person described above, because I don't treat her like a princess and blow money on her...she was aware of my frugality since day 1 and she stayed with me...shove it!

Aside from the annoying family judgement, you just described my dream life. Congratulations, man, keep it up!

iowajes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2015, 10:24:43 AM »
Trying to explain the reason behind our house purchase budget to MIL. She keeps arguing "spend more to buy a bigger house" (that I don't need or want) "and you can always sell and buy smaller if you lose your job." Background: I'm a contractor whose job depends solely on one person. The job stability beyond this current project, which may last anywhere from 6-9 years, is uncertain. Thus, we're budgeting to be able to afford a house on one income. SMH.

6-9 years of job stability is quite nice.

But it makes zero sense to buy a house thinking you could sell it if you lose your job!  To think about how to keep it without the job makes it so much better.

zephyr911

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2015, 10:36:43 AM »
But it makes zero sense to buy a house thinking you could sell it if you lose your job!  To think about how to keep it without the job makes it so much better.
Yep. When I bought (and moved into) my second home in my current town, part of the math was making sure it could be rented for at least break-even in the event of a nasty employment surprise or unexpected relocation. With the current one, having married since then, it was knowing that either one of us could make the payment on our own, giving us full redundancy.
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Geostache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2015, 01:27:53 PM »

6-9 years of job stability is quite nice.

Agreed. One of the reasons I made the move to this job from my previous contracting job was the longevity of the project. My previous projects had 2 year funding cycles. Which, as you can imagine makes planning a bit more difficult!

But it makes zero sense to buy a house thinking you could sell it if you lose your job!  To think about how to keep it without the job makes it so much better.

Yep. Hence the contribution to the thread. No amount of explanation will get through to her. :-/

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #75 on: March 27, 2015, 11:45:01 AM »
Trying to explain the reason behind our house purchase budget to MIL. She keeps arguing "spend more to buy a bigger house" (that I don't need or want) "and you can always sell and buy smaller if you lose your job." Background: I'm a contractor whose job depends solely on one person. The job stability beyond this current project, which may last anywhere from 6-9 years, is uncertain. Thus, we're budgeting to be able to afford a house on one income. SMH.

You can't "sell whenever you want" ... housing bubble is the proof. Tell her she's not getting a MIL suite. Tough shit.

Yeah, no housing bubbles and no increased realtor fees when you do go to sell.

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #76 on: March 27, 2015, 11:45:40 AM »
Relative: "It doesn't matter how much I spend on a plane ticket because I don't travel that often."

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #77 on: March 27, 2015, 11:48:33 AM »
One relative wants to put his entire retirement account into a single stock because of rumors on the Internet that it was going to be bought out by another company. The stock had been trading flat for about 5 years but has gone up 700% in the past few months, already pricing in the possibility of the rumored purchase. Which means that if the purchase doesn't happen, the stock will probably drop most or all of those gains.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #78 on: March 27, 2015, 11:52:45 AM »
OK, so I have told my mother and her brothers that I identify as "frugal". Basically as a way to talk about mustachianism without telling them about the early retirement part. My "frugal group" is my beard for mustachianism! Anyways, my aunt in law was bragging to me that her daughter (my cousin) is frugal because her winter coat is 10 years old...my cousin just bought a huge co-op in NYC for $700k. And is spending 30k on a wedding in August. That's really not getting it.
I don't know - a co-op in NYC might be a good purchase?

slugline

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #79 on: March 27, 2015, 12:38:03 PM »
Relative: "It doesn't matter how much I spend on a plane ticket because I don't travel that often."

Possibly true, depending on what "spend" and "often" means. I haven't boarded an airplane in a decade. Nothing would be substantially different in my life now if the cost of that ticket was doubled. :) Habitual behavior is really what kills finances, IMO.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #80 on: March 27, 2015, 12:43:57 PM »
Huh. I guess I'm lucky, pretty much all of my relatives (on my side of the family anyways) get it. Even the one who is arguably the most materialistic (ignoring the Dr. that probably has a $10MIL net worth) said when I was talking about my first job, "Of course it doesn't matter how much you're making, it matters how much you're SAVING". This man has 2 jet ski's, 2 houses, 2 brand new kitchens, eats out a lot... But he gets the idea behind it, even if he isn't Mustachian himself (I'm really not either, but I like to save like I am).

taekvideo

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #81 on: March 27, 2015, 02:10:27 PM »
One relative with a low income and a lot of debt bought a piano. Then he didn't have enough money to pay for rent, so he and his family moved in with her parents and put the piano in storage. So the piano (bought on credit) is sitting in storage (costing money to store) where it is unused. And he obviously couldn't afford the piano in the first place.

that's messed up... especially since there are free pianos on craigslist all the time

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2015, 09:03:38 PM »
I have a relative who is basically a tycoon, at great cost to his health.  Their kids, both in the vicinity of 30, will not leave the nest.  One of them has been taking ONE course per semester at college for the last decade and then takes the summers off 'as a break'.  His only job has been working for papa, who wants to retire but can't 'until the kids are settled'.

They have 3 homes in 3 cities.  Both of the kids have newer, bigger cars than mine, live in the (absurdly big) house or at one or the other spare homes.

The provider of this wealth is actually a really nice guy who has worked insanely hard for 40 years, and I do not begrudge him his wealth.  But the kids did not learn any valuable lessons about anything (dad was at work all the time and mom's a soft touch), and if/when he dies they will blow through the fortune within a year or two and find themselves in a trailer park with no worthwhile skills.  Its a goddamn tragedy.

11ducks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2015, 10:56:34 PM »

I don't know if your parents are anything like mine, but my parents would probably have been not ok with about 70-80% of what I did at college :).  ......  You could say that living apart from my parents in college was both for me and my parents.

So very true.
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mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #84 on: March 29, 2015, 08:10:15 AM »
I have a relative who is basically a tycoon, at great cost to his health.  Their kids, both in the vicinity of 30, will not leave the nest.  One of them has been taking ONE course per semester at college for the last decade and then takes the summers off 'as a break'.  His only job has been working for papa, who wants to retire but can't 'until the kids are settled'.

They have 3 homes in 3 cities.  Both of the kids have newer, bigger cars than mine, live in the (absurdly big) house or at one or the other spare homes.

The provider of this wealth is actually a really nice guy who has worked insanely hard for 40 years, and I do not begrudge him his wealth.  But the kids did not learn any valuable lessons about anything (dad was at work all the time and mom's a soft touch), and if/when he dies they will blow through the fortune within a year or two and find themselves in a trailer park with no worthwhile skills.  Its a goddamn tragedy.
Not as bad, but years ago my husband worked for a small privately owned (by one guy with a silver spoon) company.  Hubs traveled on business with the boss and boss's (also very rich) girlfriend.

At dinner one night, the girlfriend (in her 60's) asked hubs: "Well, I just bought my daughter a car.  At what age do they leave the nest?"
Hubs: "How old is she?"
BossGF: "38"
Hubs: "Ha!  I'm 36, she's long past the age"

rocketpj

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2015, 09:38:14 PM »
A relative's son was turning 18 (drinking age in Alberta, age of majority).  He asked my dad 'what did you do with your son when he reached adulthood'.  My dad, quite reasonably, said 'took him out for a beer'.

Relative instead chose to take his kid golfing in Hawaii for a week to celebrate his adulthood. 

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #86 on: March 30, 2015, 05:29:42 PM »
Relative: "It doesn't matter how much I spend on a plane ticket because I don't travel that often."

Possibly true, depending on what "spend" and "often" means. I haven't boarded an airplane in a decade. Nothing would be substantially different in my life now if the cost of that ticket was doubled. :) Habitual behavior is really what kills finances, IMO.

They were paying for both of them to fly first class.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2015, 05:31:52 PM »
Some relatives routinely order $20 movies at hotels on pay-per-view when they know they are going to fall asleep 10 minutes into it.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #88 on: March 31, 2015, 10:44:40 AM »
Well, you know, if you buy a bigger house with a larger mortgage, you can get a larger tax deduction from your mortgage interest!  *nodnod*

(advice from my dad.  I don't get his thing about tax deductions, but he seems to think that if you spend more to get a bigger tax deduction, you somehow come out ahead)

I think the simplest way to try to explain this is saying that the tax deduction is like a coupon, with the coupon rate being equal to their marginal tax rate.

But oftentimes when taxes are involved, you're just trying to use logic on someone who refuses to accept it, so it usually falls flat on its face.

I've explained it with the incredibly simple statement, give me a dollar and I'll give you back 30 cents.  Sounds good, right?

They still don't get it.  Then again, these are the same people who say stuff like, the more you make, the more you spend!  I just try to bite my tongue and not roll my eyes directly in front of them.

Not family related, but we went out to dinner w/some friends at a swanky restaurant recently.  We had a groupon-type deal, so the cost per couple wasn't too bad, although considerably more than what hubby & I would usually spend on eating out.  Our friend was super excited the whole time, she saw pictures of the restaurant online and it looks so nice, and it's so much fun to go to expensive places, especially since we are going on the cheap!

I suspect she was super bummed when everyone decided to eat on the patio, since the weather was nice.  The food was OK, but certainly not worth the price we paid.  I shrugged it off as one of those once in a blue moon nights out w/spendy friends.

On the way back home, I joked about how she didn't get to enjoy the interior of the restaurant, and hubby said to me, every time she opens her mouth, she sounds like my mother.  So true, and so sad...

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #89 on: March 31, 2015, 03:18:12 PM »
Some relatives routinely order $20 movies at hotels on pay-per-view when they know they are going to fall asleep 10 minutes into it.

Well... depending on what kind of movie it was, and what they did during those 10 minutes, could be worth it. :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #90 on: March 31, 2015, 03:33:54 PM »
Some relatives routinely order $20 movies at hotels on pay-per-view when they know they are going to fall asleep 10 minutes into it.

Well... depending on what kind of movie it was, and what they did during those 10 minutes, could be worth it. :)

That sort of thing is wonderfully free.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #91 on: April 01, 2015, 07:21:43 AM »
One relative who is deeply in debt and digging deeper, did not have health insurance (for himself or his family, even though it was free through Medicaid/CHIP), but still paid for life insurance for his children. He still refused to cancel it even after I told him that if one of his kids died, we'd take care of funeral expenses. If your kid died, what are you going to do with the money? Buy yourself a car? "OK, let's go drive around in little Timmie's death dividend". Wouldn't you hate that car?

I just hate how children's life insurance is marketed. The language makes it sound as though purchasing it is somehow ensuring your child's life continues instead of giving you a check if they die.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #92 on: April 01, 2015, 10:03:32 AM »
I have some cousins who have spent thousands on tattoos.
I don't get it personally.
ET ERE: 5yrs

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #93 on: April 01, 2015, 08:01:15 PM »
A relative took Social Security at 62, even though his wife had a six-figure salary, just so they could spend the extra money. Not only are they losing out on the increased amount he could be getting by waiting, but they are also getting taxed on the early benefit because their income is so high.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #94 on: April 03, 2015, 07:07:04 PM »
I provided some financial advice for a retired relative, showing various fund costs, expected and historical performance, and why it made sense to invest with a low-cost provider (i.e. Vanguard), and that the Target Retirement Fund would be a good option due to their need for stable income and fear of losing money in a market crash. He said I was much smarter than him.

So instead of following my advice, he starts talking about buying tax-free municipal bonds in his IRA. Of course the whole point of buying the tax-free bonds is because you don't have to pay taxes on them, and that compensates for the lower returns. But in an IRA, you aren't paying taxes on them anyway. Facepalm.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #95 on: April 03, 2015, 10:48:16 PM »
I provided some financial advice for a retired relative, showing various fund costs, expected and historical performance, and why it made sense to invest with a low-cost provider (i.e. Vanguard), and that the Target Retirement Fund would be a good option due to their need for stable income and fear of losing money in a market crash. He said I was much smarter than him.

So instead of following my advice, he starts talking about buying tax-free municipal bonds in his IRA. Of course the whole point of buying the tax-free bonds is because you don't have to pay taxes on them, and that compensates for the lower returns. But in an IRA, you aren't paying taxes on them anyway. Facepalm.

He's retired, I"m guessing that he has enough money to live off, or a pension, so if he's happier with municipal bonds, then why not leave him be. If he's retired, investing heavily in a low cost-bond might be the best route.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #96 on: April 04, 2015, 06:36:14 AM »
My mom called a week ago and invited us to Easter at her house with my immediate family. I respectfully declined due to my wife having to work every night this weekend and wanting to celebrate at home.

She got mad. "Easter is a family holiday. You have a beautiful baby and you should want to dress him up, take him out, and show him off!"

I bit my tongue but I wanted to say "That's why you're always broke. Trying to show off by dressing up in new clothes, shoes, purses, and buying dumb shit!" Basically, she thinks we should want to do what she always did.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #97 on: April 04, 2015, 02:32:56 PM »
I provided some financial advice for a retired relative, showing various fund costs, expected and historical performance, and why it made sense to invest with a low-cost provider (i.e. Vanguard), and that the Target Retirement Fund would be a good option due to their need for stable income and fear of losing money in a market crash. He said I was much smarter than him.

So instead of following my advice, he starts talking about buying tax-free municipal bonds in his IRA. Of course the whole point of buying the tax-free bonds is because you don't have to pay taxes on them, and that compensates for the lower returns. But in an IRA, you aren't paying taxes on them anyway. Facepalm.


He's retired, I"m guessing that he has enough money to live off, or a pension, so if he's happier with municipal bonds, then why not leave him be. If he's retired, investing heavily in a low cost-bond might be the best route.

Because tax-free bonds have a lower return than taxable bonds with the same risk. The municipalities can do this because the bondholders weigh the lower return against the tax advantages and figure they still come out ahead. If you're holding tax-free munis in a tax-advantaged account, you're getting a lower return without any improved tax advantage.

Imagine a "tax free" store that has higher prices than its competitors, and a "tax free" credit card with a limit of $5,500. They both have advantages, but using the "tax free" credit card at the "tax free" store just means you're paying a higher price than you need to without improving your tax situation.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #98 on: April 10, 2015, 05:08:05 PM »
I provided some financial advice for a retired relative, showing various fund costs, expected and historical performance, and why it made sense to invest with a low-cost provider (i.e. Vanguard), and that the Target Retirement Fund would be a good option due to their need for stable income and fear of losing money in a market crash. He said I was much smarter than him.

So instead of following my advice, he starts talking about buying tax-free municipal bonds in his IRA. Of course the whole point of buying the tax-free bonds is because you don't have to pay taxes on them, and that compensates for the lower returns. But in an IRA, you aren't paying taxes on them anyway. Facepalm.

He's retired, I"m guessing that he has enough money to live off, or a pension, so if he's happier with municipal bonds, then why not leave him be. If he's retired, investing heavily in a low cost-bond might be the best route.

He's retired but his wife still has to work to support their poor financial decisions. He's older, so his bad financial management is wasting her retirement savings, which she will need to last a long time.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #99 on: April 10, 2015, 05:19:21 PM »
My mom called a week ago and invited us to Easter at her house with my immediate family. I respectfully declined due to my wife having to work every night this weekend and wanting to celebrate at home.

She got mad. "Easter is a family holiday. You have a beautiful baby and you should want to dress him up, take him out, and show him off!"

I bit my tongue but I wanted to say "That's why you're always broke. Trying to show off by dressing up in new clothes, shoes, purses, and buying dumb shit!" Basically, she thinks we should want to do what she always did.

I can't understand how people pay so much money to buy little baby outfits. They are just going to wear it once. My coworkers were cooing over a photo of one of their babies in an Easter tie. Ties are stupid in the first place. But what does your 4 month old need a tie for?