Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3478813 times)

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2604
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4950 on: October 27, 2018, 10:12:25 PM »
Interesting that DH, their son who never got a penny of EOC from them, does talk to them and makes a point to remain in contact as they get older.

What's EOC? It's been driving me crazy for a couple days now.

Economic Outpatient Care: a concept discussed pretty thoroughly in "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley and Danko, which many of the people on this board have read. The book itself has many flaws, however it had several key insights about the impact frugality and investment have on a person's net worth especially later in life. One of the things Stanley and Danko identified as being detrimental to wealth accumulation is receiving significant amounts of financial aid from others. Parents in particular provide EOC to struggling children to "help" them but end up weakening them instead and teaching them to mooch.

Jouer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4951 on: October 28, 2018, 09:27:53 PM »
Neither of us spends more than 100 without agreeing.
Same.
I just had to negotiate with my wife for a $300 guys' ski weekend because we don't usually pay that much for accommodations. The guys I am going with want a pimped out chalet, which is not my style, but I want to spend time with them so I sucked it up. They don't understand why I had to think about it.

Mrs.Piano

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4952 on: October 29, 2018, 03:19:22 AM »
DH is somewhat bitter about it.  As much as I try to point out that he was able to make it on his own (and should be proud of that) plus he's better off as a mustachian for it, he's still miffed that his parents favored his sister.  It not because of the money but the inequality. It says to him that he is less important and he's never forgotten that.  It doesn't help that my in laws stupidly made comparisons to his sister's husband who was making more money while DH was young, getting his start on his career and wasn't making as much.  And then finding out during that same time that his parents were supporting SIL with EOC, on top of the money her husband brought in.  They were pretty unkind about that at times so personally I think they are pretty fortunate that their son is even talking to them.

Please tell DH that I understand. All of the EOC to my sister over the years and now my mom asks *me* for money every month.  I send her $100/month but my sister who LIVES with her pays nothing in rent or utilities. It is not at all that I need the money but sometimes the unequal treatment is painful and hard to take.

charis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3161
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4953 on: October 29, 2018, 10:22:23 AM »
DH is somewhat bitter about it.  As much as I try to point out that he was able to make it on his own (and should be proud of that) plus he's better off as a mustachian for it, he's still miffed that his parents favored his sister.  It not because of the money but the inequality. It says to him that he is less important and he's never forgotten that.  It doesn't help that my in laws stupidly made comparisons to his sister's husband who was making more money while DH was young, getting his start on his career and wasn't making as much.  And then finding out during that same time that his parents were supporting SIL with EOC, on top of the money her husband brought in.  They were pretty unkind about that at times so personally I think they are pretty fortunate that their son is even talking to them.

Please tell DH that I understand. All of the EOC to my sister over the years and now my mom asks *me* for money every month.  I send her $100/month but my sister who LIVES with her pays nothing in rent or utilities. It is not at all that I need the money but sometimes the unequal treatment is painful and hard to take.

This is the concern, I imagine, for many in that situation, whether it's $100 or much more.  If the relationship was otherwise good, I would not be too upset with the parents (beyond a mild frustration that they don't see it) because it's their money and no one else is entitled to it.  But I'd be furious at the (able-bodied) sibling for taking the money.  It's like taking money indirectly out of your pocket!

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2604
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4954 on: October 29, 2018, 11:18:55 AM »
DH is somewhat bitter about it.  As much as I try to point out that he was able to make it on his own (and should be proud of that) plus he's better off as a mustachian for it, he's still miffed that his parents favored his sister.  It not because of the money but the inequality. It says to him that he is less important and he's never forgotten that.  It doesn't help that my in laws stupidly made comparisons to his sister's husband who was making more money while DH was young, getting his start on his career and wasn't making as much.  And then finding out during that same time that his parents were supporting SIL with EOC, on top of the money her husband brought in.  They were pretty unkind about that at times so personally I think they are pretty fortunate that their son is even talking to them.

Please tell DH that I understand. All of the EOC to my sister over the years and now my mom asks *me* for money every month.  I send her $100/month but my sister who LIVES with her pays nothing in rent or utilities. It is not at all that I need the money but sometimes the unequal treatment is painful and hard to take.

One of my pet peeves is when someone takes to me in order to give to someone else... I call them "redistributors" and it's especially annoying when the recipients of their largesse are fully capable of handling their own expenses or who are living at a higher standard of living than me. I have a few such individuals in my family and I've had to really limit contact with them.

It's hard to deal with a redistributor for three reasons. First, their ability to consume is infinite. They're not limited by time, space, or opportunity because they can and do hand resources out to anyone who crosses their path. Now, the human ability to produce resources such as money, material assets, and other forms of wealth is finite simply because there are only 24 hours in a day and 7 days in a week. The same goes for his or her ability to consume. The ultra-rich, or the FIRE, discover that there's a level of consumption beyond which they cannot easily spend. Even if they do not use their own time or labor to generate wealth anymore, there are still only 24 hours in a day. So, there are only so many meals that can be eaten, only so many trips that can be taken, and only so many garments that can be worn. It makes little sense to own stuff you can't or don't use, so ultimately there's an upper limit to human consumption. That, of course, cannot be said of a redistributor because his or her ability to consume resources isn't limited by time and space, because he or she makes use of other people's time in a perverse kind of reverse delegation. There's the giver (you) whose role is to generate resources and give to the redistributor. There's the redistributor, who turns around and redistributes whatever he or she is given and then returns to the giver with his or her hand out, saying "I need. I don't have. Somebody took. Somebody stole. Somebody borrowed and didn't return. This happened. That happened." The story is generally pretty convincing, so the giver bails out the redistributor time and again. This is emotionally hard on the giver, which is the second reason why it's hard to interact with a redistributor.

The third reason it's hard to interact with a redistributor is that, in any community shared between the giver and the redistributor, the giver's name ends up being trashed. Why is this? Well, on the other side of the redistributor is what I call the entourage: a group of people who are either mooching hard off the redistributor or engaging in what they think is a normal interdependent reciprocal relationship, except that the resources the redistributor uses to maintain the relationship don't come from the redistributor but from the giver. This is a fact the redistributor conceals. To cultivate his or her relationship with the entourage, and to justify the vulture-like way in which the entourage competes to see who can rip off the biggest piece of flesh, the redistributor makes sure to depict the giver as an extremely wealthy person who doesn't notice or doesn't mind the endless extravagance (when in reality the giver is doing his or her utmost to stop the bleeding) or as an extremely bad person who deserves the financial abuse. When the giver meets the entourage, it's usually unpleasant because the entourage goes into flying monkey mode and rebukes the giver for not giving more, for cruelly mistreating the redistributor, or for turning off the tap. The entourage very seldom actually gets to know the giver-- they don't enjoy the cognitive dissonance that comes from learning that they have been complicit in deliberate financial abuse of the giver, that they've been directing their gratitude to the wrong person, and that the person who deserves their gratitude and friendship is one they've been taught to hate.

A redistributor can spoil things, give them away, allow them to be stolen, waste them, sell them for pennies on the dollar, or otherwise burn through resources with superhuman abandon. It's because even though their time isn't generally impinged upon by the exigencies of a full-time job or other resource-generating work, they aren't using just their time to consume the giver's resources. They're using their time, their relatives' time, their friends' time, and on and on. If you have to support a redistributor, you find out pretty quickly that you're not just supporting them. You're supporting them, plus a needy entourage.

The individuals in the entourage can be a mixed bag. Some are completely dependent on the redistributor because they're feeding an addiction or some other financial rabbit hole. Others are relatively normal people who think that they and the redistributor have a normal reciprocating relationship in which they take turns borrowing clothing, paying for lunch, and buying each other treats or gifts. They are generally unaware that the money the redistributor spends on them has been gouged out of somebody else, or that the gifts they receive or are loaned put the redistributor in a bind so that the redistributor has "no choice" except to come back to the giver and ask for more. A few are deliberately using the redistributor to gain access to the giver's resources. They know the giver "has money" or "has a good job", and they know the giver has been willing to share resources with the redistributor in the past, so they pressure the redistributor to "get money out of" the giver for the entourage's use. They also pressure the redistributor to allow them access to the giver's other resources such as a home, a vehicle, or personal effects. The redistributor consistently caves to the pressure, but knows from experience that the giver cannot or will not subsidize the member of the entourage. So, the redistributor gives his or her own resources, and ends up short, creating distress or even an emergency so that the giver has no choice but to step in and relieve the redistributor's distress. Then the cycle begins again.

Most of the time, the redistributor's gifts to the entourage are outside the giver's view. The giver often does not have a relationship, and definitely does not have a reciprocating give-and-receive exchange, with the members of the entourage. This does two things. First, it's the reciprocator who gets credit from the gift and who builds social capital. When someone in the entourage reciprocates, the gift, treat, or debt repayment is made to the redistributor, not to the giver. The giver doesn't get any return whatsoever on his or her investment and is frequently cut out of the society created by the redistributor and the entourage. The redistributor and the entourage can have a very good time on the giver's dime, and a very good time when someone in the entourage has something to share, but guess who never gets invited to the party? The giver. This is part of the redistributor's game. By making sure that the giver "can't come" (more frequently, the invitation is not passed on), the redistributor makes sure he or she can play the giver and the entourage off against each other. He or she exaggerates the extent to which people in the entourage steal, borrow, or otherwise deprive him or her of assets, and conceals the extent to which the redistributor initiates the transaction. This lets him or her get more out of the giver. Meanwhile, he or she conceals the giver's role in the support provided to the entourage. This stimulates reciprocity in members of the entourage that are inclined to it, but the reciprocity only extends as far as the redistributor.

From a giver's perspective, being used that way is a form of financial and social abuse. It sucks monkey balls.

Mrs.Piano

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4955 on: October 29, 2018, 11:34:34 AM »
I am not upset about the money I am not getting, but it is a bit annoying that my Mom is actually asking me to subsidize the whole thing. Mr. Piano and I have agreed to live on a budget and I feel squeezed by what I am giving monthly, even though it is a small amount of our net worth. I would feel more inclined if my sister was not living there for free.

saguaro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 229
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4956 on: October 29, 2018, 12:33:14 PM »
DH is somewhat bitter about it.  As much as I try to point out that he was able to make it on his own (and should be proud of that) plus he's better off as a mustachian for it, he's still miffed that his parents favored his sister.  It not because of the money but the inequality. It says to him that he is less important and he's never forgotten that.  It doesn't help that my in laws stupidly made comparisons to his sister's husband who was making more money while DH was young, getting his start on his career and wasn't making as much.  And then finding out during that same time that his parents were supporting SIL with EOC, on top of the money her husband brought in.  They were pretty unkind about that at times so personally I think they are pretty fortunate that their son is even talking to them.

Please tell DH that I understand. All of the EOC to my sister over the years and now my mom asks *me* for money every month.  I send her $100/month but my sister who LIVES with her pays nothing in rent or utilities. It is not at all that I need the money but sometimes the unequal treatment is painful and hard to take.

@Mrs.Piano, thanks.    I will pass on your comments to DH.   At this point, his parents are not in any need of money, they seem to have enough to pay their bills and part of not giving to SIL (or her daughter) is to make sure they have enough funds to subsidize any care they may need.   So at least they may have turned off the money spigot in time.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 03:56:50 PM by saguaro »

slugline

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1175
  • Location: Houston, TX USA
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4957 on: October 29, 2018, 01:15:07 PM »
Interesting that DH, their son who never got a penny of EOC from them, does talk to them and makes a point to remain in contact as they get older.

What's EOC? It's been driving me crazy for a couple days now.

"Economic Outpatient Care" -- a phrase coined in the book The Millionaire Next Door.

charis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3161
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4958 on: October 29, 2018, 01:18:44 PM »
I am not upset about the money I am not getting, but it is a bit annoying that my Mom is actually asking me to subsidize the whole thing. Mr. Piano and I have agreed to live on a budget and I feel squeezed by what I am giving monthly, even though it is a small amount of our net worth. I would feel more inclined if my sister was not living there for free.

That's what I was trying to say, but TGS said better - not suggesting anyone here would be upset about not getting handouts.  I am wondering why you continue to let your sister take advantage of you (through your mom).  Can you not end this by telling her that you can no longer afford the monthly payments and suggest that your sister start contributing?

If my parent asked me for money while supporting my (able bodied/minded) brother, there's no way I would agree to that.  My financial goals (paying down mortgage/student loans, funding my child's 529 account, saving for retirement, etc.) are just as valid as anyone else's.  And certainly trump the sibling's goal of not paying rent.

SunnyDays

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3484
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4959 on: October 29, 2018, 02:33:58 PM »
Brilliant post, GrimSqueaker!  I've never thought about it all exactly like that.

shelivesthedream

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6740
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4960 on: October 29, 2018, 02:46:47 PM »
TGS, you rock.

Sugaree

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1657
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4961 on: October 30, 2018, 09:33:17 AM »
That would be my husband's brother and his wife.  They got married in a wedding that had to have cost $100k+ by the time it was all said and done.  I know her dress was from the current season's collection and retailed for $5000 though she claimed to have gotten it at a trunk show for $1800.  They were both grad students at the time, so financing of this blessed event fell on her family (I have no idea how they pulled that one out of their ass, TBH) and MIL/FIL.  The wedding was followed almost exactly 9 months later by baby.  They move to fourth tier city so that BIL can start his PhD program, paid for by MIL/FIL of course, and live off of the proceeds from the sale of GFIL's house, which BIL was sole inheritor of (there's a bit of an inheritance drama story there, but that's not really relevant to this narrative).  They blew through that money in about 3 years, so they weren't living totally extravagantly (except for that pesky Whole Foods habit), but they weren't working either.  She finishes her PhD in what can only be described as a very, very specialized concentration within a humanities field and discovers that academia is not exactly a path to stability these days.  In fact, there are only about 50 programs in the entire US that have her program.  She finally finds a non tenure-track job.  In Europe.  Which is going to require a $50k "advance" on BIL's inheritance.  But they have to push the move back a few months because she's pregnant again.  Kid #2 is born and they move a few weeks later.  However, they've now moved to one of the more expensive cities in Europe and just can't live in a bad part of town so they talk to some of her relatives and find a place to rent for way under market value.  She works.  He keeps the kids and works on his dissertation (they briefly looked for someone to do a nanny share with them so that he would have time to work).  The relative either decides to move back into the condo or decides that  they need to get at least fair market value for it, so they move to another place in the same general area.  It's still one of the less expensive places, but it's now close to 100% of her salary.  From what I can tell, MIL/FIL were actually paying BIL more in EOC each month than she was making working.  But wait.  This apartment has...some "problems".  After several complaints to their landlord, she took them up on their offer to find somewhere else to live.  They finally acquiesced and found a place outside the city.  Sometime in all this, BIL adequately defends his dissertation by the skin of his teeth.  SIL is over a year into a 2 year fellowship.  Nine months before they fellowship ends she finds out she's pregnant.  This was planned.  It's twins.  This was unplanned.  So fast forward a few months and the twins are born.  Neither one of them are working any significant amount, and MIL/FIL give them the ultimatum that they have 6 months of EOC left if they choose to remain in Europe.  So, at the 6 month mark they move back to the states (and take another $30k "advance" to do so).  Now that they are back in the states they are staying for free in a house that her family somehow procured.  I think they might be "housesitting" long-term.  They, and by they I mean MIL/FIL, have bought a car because no public transportation.  SIL did find a job.  It's not in her exact field, and is likely to be detrimental to getting a job in her field, but it pays the bills.  BIL works third shift, 10 hours a week. It's a job that's technically in his field, but is something that could be done with a BA instead of a PhD.  He seems to spend most of his days driving the kids around watching sea planes take off.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4962 on: October 30, 2018, 11:18:31 AM »
What an astounding story. Good counterpoint to my assumption that PhDs have some brains.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4963 on: October 30, 2018, 11:18:00 AM »
What an astounding story. Good counterpoint to my assumption that PhDs have some brains.

Sugaree

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1657
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4964 on: October 30, 2018, 11:45:09 AM »
I suspect that they've figured out that MIL/FIL won't let the kids suffer any more than they have to. 


Oh...I just thought of another good one.  DH was talking to BIL the other day and BIL was expounding on how great food stamps were and that we should get on them.  LOL.  Between the two of us, we're going to pull in just over $100k before taxes this year.  I'm not sure if it's because he's that out of touch or if MIL has been in his ear about how much we're struggling too (can't make the golden child feel bad about himself).

Mrs.Piano

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4965 on: October 30, 2018, 03:54:19 PM »
I am not upset about the money I am not getting, but it is a bit annoying that my Mom is actually asking me to subsidize the whole thing. Mr. Piano and I have agreed to live on a budget and I feel squeezed by what I am giving monthly, even though it is a small amount of our net worth. I would feel more inclined if my sister was not living there for free.

That's what I was trying to say, but TGS said better - not suggesting anyone here would be upset about not getting handouts.  I am wondering why you continue to let your sister take advantage of you (through your mom).  Can you not end this by telling her that you can no longer afford the monthly payments and suggest that your sister start contributing?

If my parent asked me for money while supporting my (able bodied/minded) brother, there's no way I would agree to that.  My financial goals (paying down mortgage/student loans, funding my child's 529 account, saving for retirement, etc.) are just as valid as anyone else's.  And certainly trump the sibling's goal of not paying rent.

You’re right. I will put Mom on notice that I will only be giving her 9 more months of cash. This will give her time to re-adjust by selling her house or doing something else. Thank you.

Kitsune

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1853
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4966 on: October 30, 2018, 07:09:59 PM »
My dad: finally, for the first time in years, showing some financial sense. Kinda.
My mom: disabled, but on a really good disability insurance payment. Their retirement savings: bad for my nerves, in summary.

My brother: early 20s, student, fully subsidized by my parents, living with his girlfriend. SIL: sensible, together, good with money. Convinces him to get a job (partially to take the load off my parents, partially because she gets annoyed watching him play video games while she works 20+ hours a week to cover her share of expenses). Brother is convinced. Starts applying for jobs. Tells my mother.

She convinces him to not get a job because they'll keep paying for everything while he's in school.

???????

(Also JFC where was that level of help when I was a student? And graduated on time? And was on a set stipend that left me with 40$ for groceries on a good week??)

Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7408
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4967 on: November 02, 2018, 10:31:02 AM »
My dad: finally, for the first time in years, showing some financial sense. Kinda.
My mom: disabled, but on a really good disability insurance payment. Their retirement savings: bad for my nerves, in summary.

My brother: early 20s, student, fully subsidized by my parents, living with his girlfriend. SIL: sensible, together, good with money. Convinces him to get a job (partially to take the load off my parents, partially because she gets annoyed watching him play video games while she works 20+ hours a week to cover her share of expenses). Brother is convinced. Starts applying for jobs. Tells my mother.

She convinces him to not get a job because they'll keep paying for everything while he's in school.

???????

(Also JFC where was that level of help when I was a student? And graduated on time? And was on a set stipend that left me with 40$ for groceries on a good week??)

Your brother is SCREWED later in life. Because when the bank of mom & dad closes, and it will close, he is going to be in trouble. The longer that goes on, the worse it's going to get.

Kitsune

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1853
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4968 on: November 02, 2018, 07:07:26 PM »
My dad: finally, for the first time in years, showing some financial sense. Kinda.
My mom: disabled, but on a really good disability insurance payment. Their retirement savings: bad for my nerves, in summary.

My brother: early 20s, student, fully subsidized by my parents, living with his girlfriend. SIL: sensible, together, good with money. Convinces him to get a job (partially to take the load off my parents, partially because she gets annoyed watching him play video games while she works 20+ hours a week to cover her share of expenses). Brother is convinced. Starts applying for jobs. Tells my mother.

She convinces him to not get a job because they'll keep paying for everything while he's in school.

???????

(Also JFC where was that level of help when I was a student? And graduated on time? And was on a set stipend that left me with 40$ for groceries on a good week??)

Your brother is SCREWED later in life. Because when the bank of mom & dad closes, and it will close, he is going to be in trouble. The longer that goes on, the worse it's going to get.

Yep.

Just ain't much I can do about it.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3684
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4969 on: November 06, 2018, 11:59:19 AM »
My dad: finally, for the first time in years, showing some financial sense. Kinda.
My mom: disabled, but on a really good disability insurance payment. Their retirement savings: bad for my nerves, in summary.

My brother: early 20s, student, fully subsidized by my parents, living with his girlfriend. SIL: sensible, together, good with money. Convinces him to get a job (partially to take the load off my parents, partially because she gets annoyed watching him play video games while she works 20+ hours a week to cover her share of expenses). Brother is convinced. Starts applying for jobs. Tells my mother.

She convinces him to not get a job because they'll keep paying for everything while he's in school.

???????

(Also JFC where was that level of help when I was a student? And graduated on time? And was on a set stipend that left me with 40$ for groceries on a good week??)

Your brother is SCREWED later in life. Because when the bank of mom & dad closes, and it will close, he is going to be in trouble. The longer that goes on, the worse it's going to get.

Yep.

Just ain't much I can do about it.

It may be worthwhile to make it clear to your brother that you aren't going to be a piggybank for him and that it will be far better to get his life together now. I would recommend that he get a job and not tell his mother, and just invest that money in his rainy day fund. That likely isn't going to happen based on your description of him, but it would be nice to dream.

Kitsune

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1853
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4970 on: November 07, 2018, 06:18:28 AM »
My dad: finally, for the first time in years, showing some financial sense. Kinda.
My mom: disabled, but on a really good disability insurance payment. Their retirement savings: bad for my nerves, in summary.

My brother: early 20s, student, fully subsidized by my parents, living with his girlfriend. SIL: sensible, together, good with money. Convinces him to get a job (partially to take the load off my parents, partially because she gets annoyed watching him play video games while she works 20+ hours a week to cover her share of expenses). Brother is convinced. Starts applying for jobs. Tells my mother.

She convinces him to not get a job because they'll keep paying for everything while he's in school.

???????

(Also JFC where was that level of help when I was a student? And graduated on time? And was on a set stipend that left me with 40$ for groceries on a good week??)

Your brother is SCREWED later in life. Because when the bank of mom & dad closes, and it will close, he is going to be in trouble. The longer that goes on, the worse it's going to get.

Yep.

Just ain't much I can do about it.

It may be worthwhile to make it clear to your brother that you aren't going to be a piggybank for him and that it will be far better to get his life together now. I would recommend that he get a job and not tell his mother, and just invest that money in his rainy day fund. That likely isn't going to happen based on your description of him, but it would be nice to dream.

Knowing my brother? He wouldn't ask for a handout. But he totally would be incapable of planning ahead and managing his money, and, unless his girlfriend takes over the full management of joint finances (... which I suppose is traditional, in my family), he's likely to find himself declaring bankruptcy before age 40.

I do the financial education I can, and it seems to be REALLY sticking with the girlfriend and he's kind of open to it, so... we'll see.  He has very little incentive to manage his grocery money when going over by 100$ is ok, y'know? Why bother?

Just Joe

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6693
  • Location: In the middle....
  • Teach me something.
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4971 on: November 07, 2018, 03:18:42 PM »
(Also JFC where was that level of help when I was a student? And graduated on time? And was on a set stipend that left me with 40$ for groceries on a good week??)

EXACTLY! (vaguely similar situation once upon a time)

EricEng

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 605
  • Location: CO
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4972 on: November 07, 2018, 04:18:29 PM »
Brother is convinced. Starts applying for jobs. Tells my mother.

She convinces him to not get a job because they'll keep paying for everything while he's in school.

??????
This seems reasonable for me.  His job is to finish school asap and learn everything he can so he can start a real job making good money.  Spending 20-30 hours a week earning min wage just risks wasting money on classes that are flunked or not learning what he could of given time and focus.

It's same reason I discourage working during high school (assuming conditions permit).  Spend that extra time in high school for instance taking advanced college courses.  That said, a short summer job flipping burgers will teach you the value of money and provided me lots of motivation in college when I considered the alternative to finishing my report/projects.

This assumes he isn't being wasteful or excessive in his expenses in college.

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2604
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4973 on: November 07, 2018, 04:34:51 PM »
Brother is convinced. Starts applying for jobs. Tells my mother.

She convinces him to not get a job because they'll keep paying for everything while he's in school.

??????
This seems reasonable for me.  His job is to finish school asap and learn everything he can so he can start a real job making good money.  Spending 20-30 hours a week earning min wage just risks wasting money on classes that are flunked or not learning what he could of given time and focus.

It's same reason I discourage working during high school (assuming conditions permit).  Spend that extra time in high school for instance taking advanced college courses.  That said, a short summer job flipping burgers will teach you the value of money and provided me lots of motivation in college when I considered the alternative to finishing my report/projects.

This assumes he isn't being wasteful or excessive in his expenses in college.

It also assumes that he's actually putting in significant effort in these classes. There are people who don't, unless they personally have skin in the game. Much depends on the maturity of the student. For every focused individual such as yourself there is someone at the opposite end of the motivation spectrum who is skating by and having a good time courtesy of the Bank of Parent, stretching "school" out for as many months or years as possible and making no coherent progress toward graduation with a grade-point average high enough to be competitive with employers or advanced programs.

Tass

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3153
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Crossing some mountains
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4974 on: November 07, 2018, 04:56:47 PM »
My college jobs gave me a LOT of experience that I still draw on, both in actual work and in resume-building. But maybe I was uncommonly lucky (and granted, I am only 3 years out of college). I was a laboratory assistant and an RA.

My boyfriend got a six-figures software developer job immediately out of college based on a computer science minor, four years at our campus IT, and a lot of hobby work.

There is more value to be had from your school years than just what's found in the classroom.

Imma

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3193
  • Location: Europe
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4975 on: November 08, 2018, 12:45:38 AM »
Brother is convinced. Starts applying for jobs. Tells my mother.

She convinces him to not get a job because they'll keep paying for everything while he's in school.

??????
This seems reasonable for me.  His job is to finish school asap and learn everything he can so he can start a real job making good money.  Spending 20-30 hours a week earning min wage just risks wasting money on classes that are flunked or not learning what he could of given time and focus.

It's same reason I discourage working during high school (assuming conditions permit).  Spend that extra time in high school for instance taking advanced college courses.  That said, a short summer job flipping burgers will teach you the value of money and provided me lots of motivation in college when I considered the alternative to finishing my report/projects.

This assumes he isn't being wasteful or excessive in his expenses in college.

But who would hire a college graduate with a blank CV? It's not that employers think flipping burgers or stacking shelves is relevant to your future job, but it shows work ethic and good character.

A friend of mine's parents also felt school was her job. She had a very hard time finding a job after graduating with a degree in an exotic language and an empty CV. She started her career at the reception desk and worked her way up eventually.

Kitsune

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1853
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4976 on: November 08, 2018, 06:57:58 AM »
Brother is convinced. Starts applying for jobs. Tells my mother.

She convinces him to not get a job because they'll keep paying for everything while he's in school.

??????
This seems reasonable for me.  His job is to finish school asap and learn everything he can so he can start a real job making good money.  Spending 20-30 hours a week earning min wage just risks wasting money on classes that are flunked or not learning what he could of given time and focus.

It's same reason I discourage working during high school (assuming conditions permit).  Spend that extra time in high school for instance taking advanced college courses.  That said, a short summer job flipping burgers will teach you the value of money and provided me lots of motivation in college when I considered the alternative to finishing my report/projects.

This assumes he isn't being wasteful or excessive in his expenses in college.

I mean. If he was studying and focused and finishing a program in the allotted time without adding years by having issues/changing programs/changing programs again? I might agree with you. As it stands, what should have been 5 years is more like 8-9 assuming everything goes perfectly from now on. (Editing to clarify: some of that is for perfectly valid health reasons... but. Not most.)

But if the boy can spend 20+ hours playing video games and smoking weed every week, boy can spend an evening or two bartending and making bank, y'know. Or can have a fixed budget and learn to stay within it. MULTIPLE options.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 07:10:43 AM by Kitsune »

Kitsune

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1853
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4977 on: November 08, 2018, 07:11:33 AM »
My college jobs gave me a LOT of experience that I still draw on, both in actual work and in resume-building. But maybe I was uncommonly lucky (and granted, I am only 3 years out of college). I was a laboratory assistant and an RA.

My boyfriend got a six-figures software developer job immediately out of college based on a computer science minor, four years at our campus IT, and a lot of hobby work.

There is more value to be had from your school years than just what's found in the classroom.

This. I built a career out of an English Lit degree and student work. No student work? Oooooh boy different kettle of fish.

EricEng

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 605
  • Location: CO
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4978 on: November 08, 2018, 03:41:02 PM »
But who would hire a college graduate with a blank CV? It's not that employers think flipping burgers or stacking shelves is relevant to your future job, but it shows work ethic and good character.

A friend of mine's parents also felt school was her job. She had a very hard time finding a job after graduating with a degree in an exotic language and an empty CV. She started her career at the reception desk and worked her way up eventually.
My work is hiring any and all atm we are so desperate for engineering grads. That aside...

I forgot to mention internships in your field.  Those are absolutely worth it as they are almost part of the degree.  Job's flipping burgers, being a lifeguard, or retail are not a productive use of your time and don't help your resume as much as having a higher GPA would.  For my work though, most internships are summer only so as to not interfere with the degree.

onlykelsey

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2167
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4979 on: November 08, 2018, 03:45:06 PM »
But who would hire a college graduate with a blank CV? It's not that employers think flipping burgers or stacking shelves is relevant to your future job, but it shows work ethic and good character.

A friend of mine's parents also felt school was her job. She had a very hard time finding a job after graduating with a degree in an exotic language and an empty CV. She started her career at the reception desk and worked her way up eventually.
My work is hiring any and all atm we are so desperate for engineering grads. That aside...

I forgot to mention internships in your field.  Those are absolutely worth it as they are almost part of the degree.  Job's flipping burgers, being a lifeguard, or retail are not a productive use of your time and don't help your resume as much as having a higher GPA would.  For my work though, most internships are summer only so as to not interfere with the degree.
I would 100% prefer a 22 year old with a job flipping burgers or doing building maintenance over an undergrad internship.  Anecdata, to be sure, but in my experience the ones with internships are Bank of Mom and Dad kids without the work ethic or ability to relate to folks from different backgrounds that the burger flippers have.  Obviously different for more senior positions where relevant experience is needed.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8930
  • Age: 2020
  • Location: Bay Area at heart living in the PNW
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4980 on: November 08, 2018, 03:50:47 PM »
In engineering at least having a summer internship is a huge factor in making it easier to get a job out of college.

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2604
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4981 on: November 08, 2018, 04:12:13 PM »
In engineering at least having a summer internship is a huge factor in making it easier to get a job out of college.

It can be. One of the national labs in the state where I live has a thriving intern program, and I'm acquainted with a person who runs part of it and supervises what amounts to a herd of engineers who are working on a master's or Ph.D degree. (I'm constantly on the lookout for places to direct the students I mentor.)

At this particular lab, STEM students come for a few months, generally through the summer, it's a paid internship so they aren't depending on family money for living expenses, and at the end of it the lab snaps up any and all interns who show signs of proactivity. Grades have to be high enough to make a cutoff (and I'm told the minimum cutoff was fairly high), but provided they meet this "good enough" threshold and are eligible for a security clearance they don't split hairs over GPA when deciding whom to hire. They prefer a proactive approach to work, decent communication skills, basic professionalism, punctuality, organization skills, and the ability to stay focused and on task. Those attributes are what make the difference between departments fighting over who gets to present the first offer to a given intern, and whether that intern draws any offers at all.

According to my friend, between 80 and 90 percent of the interns, despite being competitive in their various graduate-level programs and looking like academic wizards on paper, simply don't have the ability to function as adults in the workplace. They won't reliably get up and come to work on time, they goof off instead of getting their work done, and they simply cannot work unsupervised. Many lack interpersonal skills and have to be told basics like the fact that showering and wearing clean clothing is not optional. For most of them, this is their first actual job with a paycheck despite the fact they're in their early to mid-twenties, because they did not have summer jobs or part-time jobs during high school or undergrad. It appeared to my friend-- and this was after a good ten years of herding interns-- that there was a relationship between even the "burger flipping" jobs that people look down on and the ability to display basic professionalism.

Knowing those facts, if I were interviewing someone who interned at a national lab and was NOT hired, I would want to know the reason why. It generally means they were immature or defective in some way, or they had some personal conflict such as a dislike for their assignment or an unwillingness to permanently relocate to that part of the country.

I am also *very* reluctant to hire anyone who has reached their mid-twenties with no significant work experience.

For the record, I've flipped burgers, done landscaping labor, looked after kids, delivered papers, and all kinds of other things to put myself through school and don't see why so many people sneer at that kind of work when it frequently pays better than what they're doing and can be a way to avoid unnecessary debt. Most of the students who are being encouraged to "focus on their education" instead of working are not using the surplus time to take harder courses or more of them; instead they're basically socializing. Nor do they necessarily get better grades.

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7062
  • Location: BC
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4982 on: November 08, 2018, 04:44:55 PM »
I am also *very* reluctant to hire anyone who has reached their mid-twenties with no significant work experience.

Agreed! 

I would much rather hire the person with some time-clock punching work experience.  When they get to the boring parts of work, or parts where SOMEONE needs to finish the copying / filing / data entry and they are the junior delegate...... they might not like it, but are thinking "hey, this beats carrying drywall on the construction site for minimum wage..."   

tralfamadorian

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4983 on: November 08, 2018, 06:50:38 PM »
I am also *very* reluctant to hire anyone who has reached their mid-twenties with no significant work experience.

Agreed! 

I would much rather hire the person with some time-clock punching work experience.  When they get to the boring parts of work, or parts where SOMEONE needs to finish the copying / filing / data entry and they are the junior delegate...... they might not like it, but are thinking "hey, this beats carrying drywall on the construction site for minimum wage..."

+2

In a prior career, I did many, many new hire interviews for which new undergrads and masters grads applied. New hires would go into a kiddie pool then be divvied up in about three months into their permanent positions, of which one of the possibilities could be my department. Prior paid work experience was one of the best predictors of the new hires who became the most desired when it came to permanent placement.

DaMa

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 915
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4984 on: November 08, 2018, 07:52:39 PM »
I am also *very* reluctant to hire anyone who has reached their mid-twenties with no significant work experience.

Agreed! 

I would much rather hire the person with some time-clock punching work experience.  When they get to the boring parts of work, or parts where SOMEONE needs to finish the copying / filing / data entry and they are the junior delegate...... they might not like it, but are thinking "hey, this beats carrying drywall on the construction site for minimum wage..."

+3
Give me a candidate fresh out of college with a GPA around 3.0 and 4 or more years of work history doing anything that shows a work ethic.  I'd hire that guy over a 4.0 GPA with no work history.

Dave1442397

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1636
  • Location: NJ
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4985 on: November 09, 2018, 06:15:35 AM »
For the record, I've flipped burgers, done landscaping labor, looked after kids, delivered papers, and all kinds of other things to put myself through school and don't see why so many people sneer at that kind of work when it frequently pays better than what they're doing and can be a way to avoid unnecessary debt.

I loved doing those jobs. I delivered milk (in glass bottles!), did landscaping on 95F+ days, painted houses, worked at McDonald's, and did phone surveys. I enjoyed the work, and found it rewarding to see another cut lawn, painted house, etc.

I have to say that McDonald's was the most fun. I worked the closing shift, so we stayed for a couple of hours after the store closed to clean up and prepare for the breakfast crew. It's a good thing we had no security cameras back then, because hormonal employees had way more fun than corporate would have approved of.

marion10

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 390
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4986 on: November 09, 2018, 09:26:54 AM »
I have to second the concerns about students with no work experience. The worst hire we ever made was a young woman who had a masters and no paid work experience. It was a disaster- there were other issues- but I believe part of it was as others have said- she simply didn't know how to work in an office. Yu don't want students to work too much in college but a small part time job or summer work is very beneficial.

Ever_Anon

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4987 on: November 09, 2018, 10:01:53 AM »
Today I learned that if my mother asks me to buy her new clothes and I reply "Sorry, it's not in the budget," that means one of two things.
  • I am in dire financial straits, likely as a result of my evil wife dragging me into whatever degenerate vices lesbians are into these days.
  • I am a total bitch who refuses to help my poor old parents out of the cruelty of my cold black heart.
Isn't family fun?

EricEng

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 605
  • Location: CO
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4988 on: November 09, 2018, 10:56:55 AM »
Quote
According to my friend, between 80 and 90 percent of the interns, despite being competitive in their various graduate-level programs and looking like academic wizards on paper, simply don't have the ability to function as adults in the workplace. They won't reliably get up and come to work on time, they goof off instead of getting their work done, and they simply cannot work unsupervised. Many lack i
That has not been my experience.  We have had dozens of new hire engineers straight out of college and only 1-2 duds.  Had 0 problem with them showing up on time, clean, dressed and ready to work.  Yeah, a lot don't know what to do without hand holding, but that is to be expected of entry level hires from college.  They all come in full of energy and put forth great effort.

Our worst hires tend to be the mid level "experienced" engineers with 10-20 years under their belt.  They look and sound great, but 50%+ are worthless, lazy, incompetent.

Nederstash

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 420
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4989 on: November 09, 2018, 01:18:56 PM »
Regarding work experience - I skipped over hiring someone with no work experience and chose someone else. Then I got the green light to hire another paralegal and she did get hired. So I got someone with experience and someone without experience. Boy, let me tell you... my instincts SUCKED. The one with experience turned out to be a dud and the green girl is now one of my top paralegals.

I learned my lesson there: always give someone a chance if you can.

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10859
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4990 on: November 09, 2018, 01:57:13 PM »


For the record, I've flipped burgers, done landscaping labor, looked after kids, delivered papers, and all kinds of other things to put myself through school and don't see why so many people sneer at that kind of work when it frequently pays better than what they're doing and can be a way to avoid unnecessary debt. Most of the students who are being encouraged to "focus on their education" instead of working are not using the surplus time to take harder courses or more of them; instead they're basically socializing. Nor do they necessarily get better grades.
I sometimes think this is related to where your family falls in the socio-economic hierarchy.

I grew up in a blue collar town to blue and pink collar parents.  Most of my family members are blue/ pink collar.  I was the first kid to go to college right out of high school.  Though several of us went.  So, hard work was a thing.  It was taught.  Kids who stayed home after high school and work paid rent.  They bought their own cars.  Jobs were not plentiful in my small town, but my sisters were able to baby sit in high school.  I got a job senior year in HS only because my mom knew the wife of the general manager at the grocery store (that's how everyone got a job there).

So, I bagged groceries at a grocery store.  I worked for the gas company one summer (also because I knew someone, they only hired 3 summer interns).  I moved lawns there, loaded and unloaded pipe, weed-whacked the field, cleaned the bathroom and the windows, gassed up the trucks, and helped dig exactly one ditch (there were a lot of people out that day).  While in college I worked at the pizza place (work-study) both making pizza and at the cash register.  I did some programming one summer (I was not good at that).  I painted dorms one summer.  And 2 of the 3 summers I was required to spend 4 weeks with the Navy for ROTC.

Of course, this all taught me hard work, showing up on time, how to deal with sexist men, etc.  It was in college when I first encountered people of a different socio economic class.  Their job was to get good grades.  Some of them had cars, and their own computers!  (This was the 80s).  One of them, right before graduation, sneered at me "oh, isn't it so sad that you are going into the Navy with a salary of less than half of everyone else's?"  I said "nope, I'm just lucky to be here.  Happy to repay the US for my first class education."  (And I can't believe I didn't point out that despite not working and having daddy pay for everything he pulled a 2.2 and I had a 3.7.  But I digress...)

So now I'm firmly upper middle class, and my kids are still young. Several of our friends have kids who are in college right now, and many of them have jobs.  But, my neighborhood is mixed with blue collar and white collar, and so hard work is still valued.  For some families.   Other families really just push their kids for sports, grades, and whatever extra curricular activities will get them into a top school.

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10859
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4991 on: November 09, 2018, 02:09:13 PM »
Quote
According to my friend, between 80 and 90 percent of the interns, despite being competitive in their various graduate-level programs and looking like academic wizards on paper, simply don't have the ability to function as adults in the workplace. They won't reliably get up and come to work on time, they goof off instead of getting their work done, and they simply cannot work unsupervised. Many lack i
That has not been my experience.  We have had dozens of new hire engineers straight out of college and only 1-2 duds.  Had 0 problem with them showing up on time, clean, dressed and ready to work.  Yeah, a lot don't know what to do without hand holding, but that is to be expected of entry level hires from college.  They all come in full of energy and put forth great effort.

Our worst hires tend to be the mid level "experienced" engineers with 10-20 years under their belt.  They look and sound great, but 50%+ are worthless, lazy, incompetent.

We had a string of these in my semiconductor company.  And I have a theory why.

At some point, you learn the lingo.  That string of people we had - well, they were really good at talking the talk.  They know the industry.  They know how to talk like they know what they are doing.  But they were not at all able to perform.  In our case, most of them were around 40-50 years old.  We had problems in almost every single division.

With enough experience you can make yourself sound great, even if you are unable to perform.

I tend to be super nice and give people the benefit of the doubt - way too much really.  For some of these people, they sucked because they were used to working in large companies, and we are a start up.  We do not have the infrastructure that they are used to. No, there is nobody keeping up with your inventory.  You have to do that.  For others, they just stopped sticking their necks out at work.  We had at least one person who apparently was awesome in his younger days.  But later?  He could not solve a problem by himself.  He kept asking for help.  For months.  With 30 years experience.  He would also only work on problems that his immediate supervisor assigned to him, even though his area had many problems.  Other people were clearly just climbing the corporate ladder, so to speak.

When it came to hiring experienced people, the only ones that really worked out were the ones that somebody knew personally.

ketchup

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4323
  • Age: 33
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4992 on: November 09, 2018, 08:46:14 PM »
I have to second the concerns about students with no work experience. The worst hire we ever made was a young woman who had a masters and no paid work experience. It was a disaster- there were other issues- but I believe part of it was as others have said- she simply didn't know how to work in an office. Yu don't want students to work too much in college but a small part time job or summer work is very beneficial.
We had a guy like that once at work.  I didn't have to deal with him much, but hiring an overeducated 30-year-old into his first job ever went about as well as you'd expect.  I think he lasted a month.

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2604
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4993 on: November 10, 2018, 10:20:21 PM »


For the record, I've flipped burgers, done landscaping labor, looked after kids, delivered papers, and all kinds of other things to put myself through school and don't see why so many people sneer at that kind of work when it frequently pays better than what they're doing and can be a way to avoid unnecessary debt. Most of the students who are being encouraged to "focus on their education" instead of working are not using the surplus time to take harder courses or more of them; instead they're basically socializing. Nor do they necessarily get better grades.
I sometimes think this is related to where your family falls in the socio-economic hierarchy.

More like where your family expects *you* to be in the socio-economic hierarchy, and how amenable you are to their suggestions.

My mom's family was transplanted rural aristocracy and my father was raised working-class but found some highly compensated work in a niche industry and ended up nouveau-riche. I think it started out as one of those "chemistry" type things but it ended up lasting fifty years and counting. They wanted very badly for my brother to be an engineer and to eventually own a construction or machining company, and for me to be a female or possibly a lawyer. We both fucked up royally in terms of our respective assignments and were crushing disappointments, but work ethic was never a problem because we both connected money with the creation of value for other humans.

We wanted independence from family politics and stupidity, therefore we needed money. Therefore we worked. I gained my independence chiefly because I was able to leave the country and because I was able to keep my expenses low enough to not fuck up badly enough to require parental intervention. My brother's story is less happy and contains more vertical swive, but it's really not mine to tell except to say that I hope he breaks free soon before the two of them crush what's left of his personal initiative.

I think that families where people basically like each other, and where the parents actually like their children, probably do a better job of passing on whatever values they have.

Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4531
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4994 on: November 11, 2018, 12:43:00 PM »
I have to say, I am SO GLAD I worked throughout high school, because I ended up needing Fuck You money very early on. It meant that when I was in my late teens and my mom married someone I hated, I could randomly decide to pack up and leave in two weeks, buy a cross-country bus ticket, and have the references and experience to find a job right away and start my adult life. Otherwise I would have had to do things very differently, I imagine. Instead I started my adult life with a big "Fuck This Shit I'm Out", the mindset of which has continued ever since. It worked out very well.

eyesonthehorizon

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 964
  • Location: Texas
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4995 on: November 11, 2018, 08:22:00 PM »
I have to say, I am SO GLAD I worked throughout high school, because I ended up needing Fuck You money very early on. It meant that when I was in my late teens and my mom married someone I hated, I could randomly decide to pack up and leave in two weeks, buy a cross-country bus ticket, and have the references and experience to find a job right away and start my adult life. Otherwise I would have had to do things very differently, I imagine. Instead I started my adult life with a big "Fuck This Shit I'm Out", the mindset of which has continued ever since. It worked out very well.
...This is maybe the happiest story I've ever read here. Thank you for sharing it.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3684
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4996 on: November 12, 2018, 02:42:51 PM »
Regarding work experience - I skipped over hiring someone with no work experience and chose someone else. Then I got the green light to hire another paralegal and she did get hired. So I got someone with experience and someone without experience. Boy, let me tell you... my instincts SUCKED. The one with experience turned out to be a dud and the green girl is now one of my top paralegals.

I learned my lesson there: always give someone a chance if you can.

Best employee I've ever had was a guy with one of the worst resumes I've seen. It turned out that he just moved to the US from Spain and essentially just translated his resume from Spanish to English without correcting the grammar or syntax. His English was very good, no clue why he did it that way but he absolutely killed any sales targets we gave him. I miss having him around.

Dee

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1785
  • Location: Ottawa, Canada
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4997 on: November 12, 2018, 08:45:02 PM »
Yeah, @Zikoris, that is an awesome FU money story. Is your mom still married to that man? Have your views of him changed over time?

Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4531
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4998 on: November 12, 2018, 11:27:58 PM »
Yeah, @Zikoris, that is an awesome FU money story. Is your mom still married to that man? Have your views of him changed over time?

Yes, they're still married. No, my views have not changed - I refuse to see him, talk to him, or have anything to do with him. It's not a huge issue since she lives very far away and rarely visits, but when she comes to town I just visit with her on her own. I've never been that close with my mom, so a relationship where we email each other funny stuff here and there and go for lunch once or twice a year is actually perfect for me.

Dee

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1785
  • Location: Ottawa, Canada
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4999 on: November 13, 2018, 06:50:40 PM »
Thanks for answering, @Zikoris. Really glad for you that you were able to exercise the option of getting out while you were young and taking advantage of the distance our vast country offers.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!