Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1585339 times)

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4900 on: October 09, 2018, 07:17:56 PM »
I would follow the weather carefully and make your decision based on that. I am not a big fan of theme parks but my kids grew up a half hour from one and loved them. We went once every summer as a special treat. Nothing wrong with that once in awhile.

FamilyGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4901 on: October 09, 2018, 07:54:04 PM »
My "relatives who just don't get it" is happening in real time. My immediately family has been planning a Orlando vacation since March of this year. I have been upfront with them the entire time that I am uninterested in going. However, my DW would like to go and I'm sure our 6 year old boy would love it as well. After months of discussion I have agreed to go as long as we didn't get any pressure from my family to join them at the theme parks which my DW and I don't want to shell out the money for. That trip is planned to happen next week and we are planning a road trip along the gulf coast. With Hurricane Michael entering the picture I'm seriously considering not subjecting my family to traveling through or in the aftermath of inclement weather. When I mentioned it to my parents that we may not be going I got a lot of push back about not going since they are traveling the same path that we would be. Even if the storm isn't as bad as expected I'm concerned about gas shortages and additional traffic in the panhandle due to residents returning to their homes. Ugh...maybe I'm just using it as an excuse not to go, but I typically don't like to gamble my families safety just to go on a vacation. Only major hiccup that I am having is the fact they my nephew is planning on getting married while in Florida and has asked me to perform the ceremony. His plan is to get married legally at a courthouse, but would like to still have a ceremony on the beach. (Atlantic Side) I would feel bad not being able to performed the ceremony for my nephew, but again not sure its worth the risk. Ah feels better to get that off my chest. Now to make a decision.

Closely watch the weather. If it is an impact zone, better to avoid it, especially with little kids.

Feivel2000

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4902 on: October 10, 2018, 12:45:53 AM »
A holiday you drive to, including a self performed beach wedding ceremony. You didn't wanted to go all along and now you are looking for excuses...

If your parents do the trip, but you don't, because you are "concerned about gas shortages and additional traffic", be prepared for the (rightfully) stigma of the grumpy, cheap dude.


SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4903 on: October 10, 2018, 05:23:11 AM »
A holiday you drive to, including a self performed beach wedding ceremony. You didn't wanted to go all along and now you are looking for excuses...

If your parents do the trip, but you don't, because you are "concerned about gas shortages and additional traffic", be prepared for the (rightfully) stigma of the grumpy, cheap dude.


I don't know about you, but when I was still working, my vacation days were very precious and scarce items.  10-15 days for an entire year and sick days had to be subtracted from that total.  So, 5-10 days of vacation time.

I was DAMNED PICKY how I spent them.   I sure as hell didn't want to spend what few vacation days I had doing things I didn't want to do.

Had nothing to do with being grumpy and everything to do with it's OUR family's vacation time to spend the way WE want to. 


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4904 on: October 10, 2018, 06:04:02 AM »
My family is actually pretty good with money in general (parents were FI in their 40s), but they do tend to spend like their upper middle class peers. Anyway, this one happened yesterday and made me smile.

My mom went up to our (brand new, fully furnished) cottage on the weekend to enjoy the fall colours. Out of the blue, she messages me and says theyíre going to buy a bench for the dining table and wants me to give her a few options. Because benches with dining tables are ďinĒ right now. Even though the brand new dining table comes with six brand new dining chairs. But the bench is better because you can then shift it five inches back and use it as extra living room seating (the living room and dining room is basically just one big room). Because itís not possible to simply turn two of the dining chairs around so that they face the living room.

Oh well, not my money so she can do what she wants.

Dragonswan

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4905 on: October 10, 2018, 06:19:59 AM »
My "relatives who just don't get it" is happening in real time. My immediately family has been planning a Orlando vacation since March of this year. I have been upfront with them the entire time that I am uninterested in going. However, my DW would like to go and I'm sure our 6 year old boy would love it as well. After months of discussion I have agreed to go as long as we didn't get any pressure from my family to join them at the theme parks which my DW and I don't want to shell out the money for. That trip is planned to happen next week and we are planning a road trip along the gulf coast. With Hurricane Michael entering the picture I'm seriously considering not subjecting my family to traveling through or in the aftermath of inclement weather. When I mentioned it to my parents that we may not be going I got a lot of push back about not going since they are traveling the same path that we would be. Even if the storm isn't as bad as expected I'm concerned about gas shortages and additional traffic in the panhandle due to residents returning to their homes. Ugh...maybe I'm just using it as an excuse not to go, but I typically don't like to gamble my families safety just to go on a vacation. Only major hiccup that I am having is the fact they my nephew is planning on getting married while in Florida and has asked me to perform the ceremony. His plan is to get married legally at a courthouse, but would like to still have a ceremony on the beach. (Atlantic Side) I would feel bad not being able to performed the ceremony for my nephew, but again not sure its worth the risk. Ah feels better to get that off my chest. Now to make a decision.

I suspect part of the push back from the grandparents is because they intend to take your child to Disney since they know you won't.  So be prepared for that and decide if you aren't going to the theme parks because you don't want to waste the money or on principle, because if you think you're the bad guy now, wait until the grandparents hear that you won't let them take their beloved grandson on the thrill of his childhood life.

former player

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4906 on: October 10, 2018, 06:28:09 AM »
My "relatives who just don't get it" is happening in real time. My immediately family has been planning a Orlando vacation since March of this year. I have been upfront with them the entire time that I am uninterested in going. However, my DW would like to go and I'm sure our 6 year old boy would love it as well. After months of discussion I have agreed to go as long as we didn't get any pressure from my family to join them at the theme parks which my DW and I don't want to shell out the money for. That trip is planned to happen next week and we are planning a road trip along the gulf coast. With Hurricane Michael entering the picture I'm seriously considering not subjecting my family to traveling through or in the aftermath of inclement weather. When I mentioned it to my parents that we may not be going I got a lot of push back about not going since they are traveling the same path that we would be. Even if the storm isn't as bad as expected I'm concerned about gas shortages and additional traffic in the panhandle due to residents returning to their homes. Ugh...maybe I'm just using it as an excuse not to go, but I typically don't like to gamble my families safety just to go on a vacation. Only major hiccup that I am having is the fact they my nephew is planning on getting married while in Florida and has asked me to perform the ceremony. His plan is to get married legally at a courthouse, but would like to still have a ceremony on the beach. (Atlantic Side) I would feel bad not being able to performed the ceremony for my nephew, but again not sure its worth the risk. Ah feels better to get that off my chest. Now to make a decision.

I suspect part of the push back from the grandparents is because they intend to take your child to Disney since they know you won't.  So be prepared for that and decide if you aren't going to the theme parks because you don't want to waste the money or on principle, because if you think you're the bad guy now, wait until the grandparents hear that you won't let them take their beloved grandson on the thrill of his childhood life.

It will be nothing as against blowing off the nephew's wedding, having already agreed to officiate.

To which I would just make the point that as you grow older the family generations below you in age become more and more important, because the older generations have died off.  Laying down some goodwill now with the younger generation will pay dividends in the future.

Feivel2000

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4907 on: October 10, 2018, 06:38:59 AM »
However, my DW would like to go and I'm sure our 6 year old boy would love it as well.

If your vacation days are that precious, how about your wife and kid go alone? Couldn't they just join your parents in their car?
Sorry, I simply don't see the "they don't get it" part. Nothing you wrote seems unreasonable or extreme to me. It isn't even spontaneous.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4908 on: October 10, 2018, 07:02:50 AM »
I would follow the weather carefully and make your decision based on that. I am not a big fan of theme parks but my kids grew up a half hour from one and loved them. We went once every summer as a special treat. Nothing wrong with that once in awhile.

I've got nothing against theme parks, even though I can't ride rides, but a single day adult ticket to Magic Kingdom is now $119 for adults and $113 for under 9s.  That is A LOT of money for a theme park you aren't interested in going to. That's pretty different from the $60-90 Six flags season pass (and that includes parking).


As for Orlando- I'm scheduled to go next week for work. I'm not concerned about flying there; but I wouldn't take a gulf coast road trip.  I guess the poster can wait and see how bad areas are, but it looks like it is going to hit the panhandle HARD.  Driving through those areas is unlikely to be a smart idea 1 week later.



Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4909 on: October 10, 2018, 07:33:17 AM »
I've got nothing against theme parks, even though I can't ride rides, but a single day adult ticket to Magic Kingdom is now $119 for adults and $113 for under 9s.  That is A LOT of money for a theme park you aren't interested in going to. That's pretty different from the $60-90 Six flags season pass (and that includes parking).


Maybe that's worth changing your mindset about - what are you actually paying money for ? Are you paying 300-odd for a theme park you aren't interested in going to (though your kid/spouse might be, and their opinions count too), or are you paying 300-odd in relationship maintenance with your extended family? And how much are you willing to put, per year, into relationship maintenance (in other words: is this the kind of expense your parents expect on a bi-weekly basis, or is it something that pops up every 2-3 years?)

This is how we view restaurant/coffee spending, btw: we do not, EVER, buy coffee to drink on the go because it's coffee. We don't EVER buy meals because it's convenient, because we 'feel like it', because we didn't feel like packing a lunch, whatever. We will pay for a nice restaurant dinner as an evening out while the kids are with their grandparents - because 30-40$ is a reasonable cost for 3-4 hours of pleasant conversation with my spouse, once every 2 or 3 months. We will pay for a coffee as 'rental' for a table to have a 2-hour conversation with a friend. We maintain a very low eating-out spend, but maintain our relationships intentionally with what we do spend. Sacrificing relationships for relatively small amounts of money is, for us, definitely not worth it.

That said, re-phrasing an earlier statement: if the expense is expected regularly, is money you don't have, or is a 'cost' of being in a relationship with someone (aka: 'but my friends won't like me if I don't have nice shoes' or some such nonsense), it may be worth reconsidering the relationship.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4910 on: October 10, 2018, 08:00:15 AM »
However, my DW would like to go and I'm sure our 6 year old boy would love it as well.

If your vacation days are that precious, how about your wife and kid go alone? Couldn't they just join your parents in their car?
Sorry, I simply don't see the "they don't get it" part. Nothing you wrote seems unreasonable or extreme to me. It isn't even spontaneous.


I'm not the OP, in case you're confused about that.

But my wife and I routinely do things together and also do things apart.   That just makes sense.   And sometimes I just take one for the team.



ketchup

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4911 on: October 10, 2018, 08:30:00 AM »
My family is actually pretty good with money in general (parents were FI in their 40s), but they do tend to spend like their upper middle class peers. Anyway, this one happened yesterday and made me smile.

My mom went up to our (brand new, fully furnished) cottage on the weekend to enjoy the fall colours. Out of the blue, she messages me and says theyíre going to buy a bench for the dining table and wants me to give her a few options. Because benches with dining tables are ďinĒ right now. Even though the brand new dining table comes with six brand new dining chairs. But the bench is better because you can then shift it five inches back and use it as extra living room seating (the living room and dining room is basically just one big room). Because itís not possible to simply turn two of the dining chairs around so that they face the living room.

Oh well, not my money so she can do what she wants.
Wow.  I can't imagine thinking about replacing brand new chairs with something else like that.  That's truly "It's one banana Michael, what could it cost? Ten dollars?" levels out of touch with the masses.

OneStep

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4912 on: October 10, 2018, 09:08:15 AM »
It's times like these that I wish I was better at written communication. I will try an clarify the best that I can. Yes this holiday is one that we can drive to, however it is a 22 hour drive. We enjoy road trips and don't mind spending that much time on the road. The concern that I have is that once we are 12-14 hours into the trip there is a possibility that we will be stuck. The last thing we want to do is drive that far and realize that it is not feasible to continue to our destination. There are other routes that we can take, through Georgia that is away from the coast and will most likely be safer. They are still predicting that southern Georgia will have major power outages and flooding which could also cause delays. We could go even more out of the way and go through the Carolina's but they are still dealing with flooding and damage from Florence which will be made worse by the additional rain they will receive from Michael. So we are down to picking which is the safest route to travel.

The part that my "relatives don't get" is mainly around us not wanting to go to the theme parks, but also includes the fact that we are willing to miss this vacation due to severe weather. They don't understand that part of it. I do love my family, however I am a selfish person in that I care infinitely more about my DW and DS than I do my parents or my other family. My DW and I make decisions on what is best for us and that's it. Yes we understand in investing in our familial relationships which is what were are planning on doing by going on the trip. The only thing that has changed is the fact that there is now a Cat 4 hurricane that will have just passed through the area that we have to travel across. If there was no hurricane this conversation would never be occurring. When I shared with my family that we were concerned about travel and that if it wasn't safe that we wouldn't be going they immediately brought up the fact that we would miss the wedding. I would feel horrible for not honoring my commitment to my nephew and that is it. If I was just attending then it I would not bat an eye. They same way my family didn't bat an eye when they didn't attend my wedding because we got married in Rhode Island. So you see our family dynamic is somewhat strange in that we all love each other, but we are all selfish and we do what we want and make excuses for not doing things we don't want to do.


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4913 on: October 10, 2018, 09:13:53 AM »
I've got nothing against theme parks, even though I can't ride rides, but a single day adult ticket to Magic Kingdom is now $119 for adults and $113 for under 9s.  That is A LOT of money for a theme park you aren't interested in going to. That's pretty different from the $60-90 Six flags season pass (and that includes parking).


Maybe that's worth changing your mindset about - what are you actually paying money for ? Are you paying 300-odd for a theme park you aren't interested in going to (though your kid/spouse might be, and their opinions count too), or are you paying 300-odd in relationship maintenance with your extended family? And how much are you willing to put, per year, into relationship maintenance (in other words: is this the kind of expense your parents expect on a bi-weekly basis, or is it something that pops up every 2-3 years?)

This is how we view restaurant/coffee spending, btw: we do not, EVER, buy coffee to drink on the go because it's coffee. We don't EVER buy meals because it's convenient, because we 'feel like it', because we didn't feel like packing a lunch, whatever. We will pay for a nice restaurant dinner as an evening out while the kids are with their grandparents - because 30-40$ is a reasonable cost for 3-4 hours of pleasant conversation with my spouse, once every 2 or 3 months. We will pay for a coffee as 'rental' for a table to have a 2-hour conversation with a friend. We maintain a very low eating-out spend, but maintain our relationships intentionally with what we do spend. Sacrificing relationships for relatively small amounts of money is, for us, definitely not worth it.

That said, re-phrasing an earlier statement: if the expense is expected regularly, is money you don't have, or is a 'cost' of being in a relationship with someone (aka: 'but my friends won't like me if I don't have nice shoes' or some such nonsense), it may be worth reconsidering the relationship.

I would not pay for single day Disney tickets for "relationship maintenance" out of principal- it's way too much for a day at a park.  I happily paid for 2-day Silver Dollar City tickets though.

I think you can go on family vacations without taking part in every single activity.

In this case though; a major problem is the drive through a disaster zone. It's selfish to go into areas with gas and water shortages; if they even have a non-flooded route to go through.

FamilyGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4914 on: October 10, 2018, 09:21:22 AM »
However, my DW would like to go and I'm sure our 6 year old boy would love it as well.

If your vacation days are that precious, how about your wife and kid go alone? Couldn't they just join your parents in their car?
Sounds reasonable for me..

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4915 on: October 10, 2018, 09:34:57 AM »
A holiday you drive to, including a self performed beach wedding ceremony. You didn't wanted to go all along and now you are looking for excuses...

If your parents do the trip, but you don't, because you are "concerned about gas shortages and additional traffic", be prepared for the (rightfully) stigma of the grumpy, cheap dude.


I don't know about you, but when I was still working, my vacation days were very precious and scarce items.  10-15 days for an entire year and sick days had to be subtracted from that total.  So, 5-10 days of vacation time.

I was DAMNED PICKY how I spent them.   I sure as hell didn't want to spend what few vacation days I had doing things I didn't want to do.

Had nothing to do with being grumpy and everything to do with it's OUR family's vacation time to spend the way WE want to.

Indeed. I find I use my "no" during such circumstances. It doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge the wedding or that I don't send an appropriate gift. I wouldn't want to waffle and have someone get their hopes up or rely on me to be there if I didn't fully intend to go and to do what was necessary. If I have to make a compromise for family harmony, once I agree to do it I try my best to not gripe about it or try to reverse my decision.

From our previous conversations I'd bet you have a similar strategy.

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4916 on: October 10, 2018, 09:56:56 AM »
I've got nothing against theme parks, even though I can't ride rides, but a single day adult ticket to Magic Kingdom is now $119 for adults and $113 for under 9s.  That is A LOT of money for a theme park you aren't interested in going to. That's pretty different from the $60-90 Six flags season pass (and that includes parking).


Maybe that's worth changing your mindset about - what are you actually paying money for ? Are you paying 300-odd for a theme park you aren't interested in going to (though your kid/spouse might be, and their opinions count too), or are you paying 300-odd in relationship maintenance with your extended family? And how much are you willing to put, per year, into relationship maintenance (in other words: is this the kind of expense your parents expect on a bi-weekly basis, or is it something that pops up every 2-3 years?)

This is how we view restaurant/coffee spending, btw: we do not, EVER, buy coffee to drink on the go because it's coffee. We don't EVER buy meals because it's convenient, because we 'feel like it', because we didn't feel like packing a lunch, whatever. We will pay for a nice restaurant dinner as an evening out while the kids are with their grandparents - because 30-40$ is a reasonable cost for 3-4 hours of pleasant conversation with my spouse, once every 2 or 3 months. We will pay for a coffee as 'rental' for a table to have a 2-hour conversation with a friend. We maintain a very low eating-out spend, but maintain our relationships intentionally with what we do spend. Sacrificing relationships for relatively small amounts of money is, for us, definitely not worth it.

That said, re-phrasing an earlier statement: if the expense is expected regularly, is money you don't have, or is a 'cost' of being in a relationship with someone (aka: 'but my friends won't like me if I don't have nice shoes' or some such nonsense), it may be worth reconsidering the relationship.

I would not pay for single day Disney tickets for "relationship maintenance" out of principal- it's way too much for a day at a park.  I happily paid for 2-day Silver Dollar City tickets though.

I think you can go on family vacations without taking part in every single activity.

In this case though; a major problem is the drive through a disaster zone. It's selfish to go into areas with gas and water shortages; if they even have a non-flooded route to go through.

Oh, ugh, I'd missed the bit about hurricanes and disaster zones. Nope, no, levels of no.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4917 on: October 10, 2018, 12:02:58 PM »
My family is actually pretty good with money in general (parents were FI in their 40s), but they do tend to spend like their upper middle class peers. Anyway, this one happened yesterday and made me smile.

My mom went up to our (brand new, fully furnished) cottage on the weekend to enjoy the fall colours. Out of the blue, she messages me and says theyíre going to buy a bench for the dining table and wants me to give her a few options. Because benches with dining tables are ďinĒ right now. Even though the brand new dining table comes with six brand new dining chairs. But the bench is better because you can then shift it five inches back and use it as extra living room seating (the living room and dining room is basically just one big room). Because itís not possible to simply turn two of the dining chairs around so that they face the living room.

Oh well, not my money so she can do what she wants.
Wow.  I can't imagine thinking about replacing brand new chairs with something else like that.  That's truly "It's one banana Michael, what could it cost? Ten dollars?" levels out of touch with the masses.
Plus benches kind of suck to sit on.

Our kitchen table came with 4 chairs and a bench (bought it at a yard sale we passed while walking home from the gym one day.  Carried it the three blocks home.)  The bench was basically annoying to pull out and put back for dinner.  We eventually gave it away.  Now we have six chairs (two of our chairs magically appeared from grad school friends who moved away, and had matching chairs.  It's a pretty light blond boring chair.  One of them lives at the computer desk and the other lives at the kids' desk.)

SheWhoWalksAtLunch

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4918 on: October 10, 2018, 01:12:01 PM »
New to the forums and enjoying this thread. 

Back in 2008 when the housing market bubble crashed, I mentioned to my SIL that I was refinancing our house to take advantage of the 4+% drop in rates.  She confessed she rather keep her almost 9% rate than show anyone at the bank her full financial picture.  Ten years later the DH and I are debt and mortgage free and planning to RE in a few years.  SIL who makes more than DH and I combined, and who is married to second wage earner, recently complained that she will never be able to retire because of all their bills.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4919 on: October 10, 2018, 05:56:38 PM »
MIL: "The cruise was so fun! When will you be able to come with us on a cruise?"
Me: "Oh, I'd love to do an Alaska cruise sometime and see the glaciers!"
MIL: "That's way too far! We just want to cruise around for a few days."
Me: "Oh, okay. To where?"
MIL: "It doesn't matter! The important part of a cruise is that you just hang out and eat all day!"
Me: (shuddering internally) "Wow. Sounds... great. Maybe some time next year then."

I work out every single day with my gym buddies, I eat like a health freak, I love going out in nature. Spending a week on a floating condominium is like my personal version of hell. Our toddler's books and toys and food wouldn't be there and her routine would be completely fucked. And we wouldn't be able to smoke weed. Oh, but we get to shove mediocre food and alcohol into our gullets for days on end! Sounds fabulous! Sign me up!

Not to mention my inlaws are in debt up to their eyeballs! Why another cruise? WHY? Just stop spending money on stupid things already!

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4920 on: October 10, 2018, 06:15:47 PM »
This is my kind of Alaskan cruise -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/going-our-way-seeing-alaskas-inside-passage-by-ferry/2011/10/24/gIQAbcYiJM_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a125e280364f

I've been on one cruise, and while it was fun, I have no desire to do the big ship thing again.



Miss Piggy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4921 on: October 10, 2018, 08:03:07 PM »
This is my kind of Alaskan cruise -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/going-our-way-seeing-alaskas-inside-passage-by-ferry/2011/10/24/gIQAbcYiJM_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a125e280364f


We did this. Most beautiful place on earth...by ferry. Around every curve, the view was more beautiful than what was just left behind. Highly, highly, highly recommend. I can't wait to do it again, potentially next summer when FIREd.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4922 on: October 10, 2018, 09:55:49 PM »
However, my DW would like to go and I'm sure our 6 year old boy would love it as well.

If your vacation days are that precious, how about your wife and kid go alone? Couldn't they just join your parents in their car?
Sorry, I simply don't see the "they don't get it" part. Nothing you wrote seems unreasonable or extreme to me. It isn't even spontaneous.

For the record, I said no such thing.  Someone else said that and you (and several others) have attributed it to me.


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4923 on: October 11, 2018, 01:35:08 AM »
New to the forums and enjoying this thread. 

Back in 2008 when the housing market bubble crashed, I mentioned to my SIL that I was refinancing our house to take advantage of the 4+% drop in rates.  She confessed she rather keep her almost 9% rate than show anyone at the bank her full financial picture.  Ten years later the DH and I are debt and mortgage free and planning to RE in a few years.  SIL who makes more than DH and I combined, and who is married to second wage earner, recently complained that she will never be able to retire because of all their bills.

Welcome to the forums.


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4924 on: October 11, 2018, 01:35:35 AM »
I have a cousin in a pretty shitty situation. I feel bad for her and her kids that she's ended up like this, but it seems I'm the only person who feels she's not a victim.

She lived with, but was not married to, a man with kids from a previous relationship. They owned a property together and the mortgage and life insurance weren't paid for a year. Then he tragically dies. She's forced to sell the house now and the proceeds of his share in the house (not much after the mortgage has been paid off) will go to his kids, not to her. The mean bank is not willing to give her a new mortgage so she's forced to rent which is difficult where we live.

Of course everyone blames the dead guy now and she knew nothing about this until he passed away. I find that very hard to believe, but even if it's true that he took care of all the financial matters, as a grown up adult she should have checked whether the bills were really paid.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4925 on: October 11, 2018, 02:09:02 AM »
I have a cousin in a pretty shitty situation. I feel bad for her and her kids that she's ended up like this, but it seems I'm the only person who feels she's not a victim.

She lived with, but was not married to, a man with kids from a previous relationship. They owned a property together and the mortgage and life insurance weren't paid for a year. Then he tragically dies. She's forced to sell the house now and the proceeds of his share in the house (not much after the mortgage has been paid off) will go to his kids, not to her. The mean bank is not willing to give her a new mortgage so she's forced to rent which is difficult where we live.

Of course everyone blames the dead guy now and she knew nothing about this until he passed away. I find that very hard to believe, but even if it's true that he took care of all the financial matters, as a grown up adult she should have checked whether the bills were really paid.

A sad situation for her to be in, and especially the kids.

It could have been avoidable if they would have paid their bills and had a life insurance on each other's life. If I compare to my parents, they once refinanced their mortgage when they had trouble paying the high bills. My mother started working evening jobs to earn more money. When my father unexpectedly died, his life insurance was paid out to my mother, who then was left financially comfortable. If my mother would have died, my father would also have received a small life insurance.

It is strange to rely completely on a partner to do all the financial stuff. But maybe he lied about his situation and it is mainly his fault? If they did not have a shared account, then maybe it wasn't so easy for her to actually check? But it could be very possible that she just wasn't interested in anything financial other than spending and that is not very smart behaviour.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 05:12:36 AM by Linda_Norway »

Feivel2000

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4926 on: October 11, 2018, 02:57:00 AM »
However, my DW would like to go and I'm sure our 6 year old boy would love it as well.

If your vacation days are that precious, how about your wife and kid go alone? Couldn't they just join your parents in their car?
Sorry, I simply don't see the "they don't get it" part. Nothing you wrote seems unreasonable or extreme to me. It isn't even spontaneous.

For the record, I said no such thing.  Someone else said that and you (and several others) have attributed it to me.

oh f***, I you are right. I am sorry for this mistake.
On an unrelated note, I really would like this forum to have a mobile friedly theme.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4927 on: October 11, 2018, 04:17:05 AM »
I have a cousin in a pretty shitty situation. I feel bad for her and her kids that she's ended up like this, but it seems I'm the only person who feels she's not a victim.

She lived with, but was not married to, a man with kids from a previous relationship. They owned a property together and the mortgage and life insurance weren't paid for a year. Then he tragically dies. She's forced to sell the house now and the proceeds of his share in the house (not much after the mortgage has been paid off) will go to his kids, not to her. The mean bank is not willing to give her a new mortgage so she's forced to rent which is difficult where we live.

Of course everyone blames the dead guy now and she knew nothing about this until he passed away. I find that very hard to believe, but even if it's true that he took care of all the financial matters, as a grown up adult she should have checked whether the bills were really paid.

A said situation for her to be in, and especially the kids.

It could have been avoidable if they would have paid their bills and had a life insurance on each other's life. If I compare to my parents, they once refinanced their mortgage when they had trouble paying the high bills. My mother started working evening jobs to earn more money. When my father unexpectedly died, his life insurance was paid out to my mother, who then was left financially comfortable. If my mother would have died, my father would also have received a small life insurance.

It is strange to rely completely on a partner to do all the financial stuff. But maybe he lied about his situation and it is mainly his fault? If they did not have a shared account, then maybe it wasn't so easy for her to actually check? But it could be very possible that she just wasn't interested in anything financial other than spending and that is not very smart behaviour.

The worst part is that they actually had life insurance, but they were also behind on that, which means they won't get a payout.

I'm not sure if she had access to the account the mortgage was payed from, but there were warning signs about his financial behaviour that she chose to ignore. I also think any responsible adult should demand access to the account the joint mortgage is paid from. Not checking and completely trusting your partner is irresponsible. She's only in her 30s and she's not stupid. I feel sorry for the situation she's in, but this happens when you ignore important things.

We have life insurance, even though we would not need it to pay the bills. If the worst happens, we want each other to be as comfortable as possible in the situation they're in. That peace of mind is absolutely worth the 10/month premium.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4928 on: October 11, 2018, 07:57:05 AM »
I have a cousin in a pretty shitty situation. I feel bad for her and her kids that she's ended up like this, but it seems I'm the only person who feels she's not a victim.

She lived with, but was not married to, a man with kids from a previous relationship. They owned a property together and the mortgage and life insurance weren't paid for a year. Then he tragically dies. She's forced to sell the house now and the proceeds of his share in the house (not much after the mortgage has been paid off) will go to his kids, not to her. The mean bank is not willing to give her a new mortgage so she's forced to rent which is difficult where we live.

Of course everyone blames the dead guy now and she knew nothing about this until he passed away. I find that very hard to believe, but even if it's true that he took care of all the financial matters, as a grown up adult she should have checked whether the bills were really paid.

This is a story for the "make a will" threads, as well as a warning to know what's going on in shared finances.

I am sorry for your sister, but honestly I feel worse for the poor kids. They've lost their father, their home, and presumably also their mother-figure (I assume your sister is not their guardian). What a lot of trauma all at once!

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4929 on: October 11, 2018, 08:52:14 AM »
I have a cousin in a pretty shitty situation. I feel bad for her and her kids that she's ended up like this, but it seems I'm the only person who feels she's not a victim.

She lived with, but was not married to, a man with kids from a previous relationship. They owned a property together and the mortgage and life insurance weren't paid for a year. Then he tragically dies. She's forced to sell the house now and the proceeds of his share in the house (not much after the mortgage has been paid off) will go to his kids, not to her. The mean bank is not willing to give her a new mortgage so she's forced to rent which is difficult where we live.

Of course everyone blames the dead guy now and she knew nothing about this until he passed away. I find that very hard to believe, but even if it's true that he took care of all the financial matters, as a grown up adult she should have checked whether the bills were really paid.

This is a story for the "make a will" threads, as well as a warning to know what's going on in shared finances.

I am sorry for your sister, but honestly I feel worse for the poor kids. They've lost their father, their home, and presumably also their mother-figure (I assume your sister is not their guardian). What a lot of trauma all at once!

It's met cousin, not my sister, so we're not close relatives. I feel extremely sorry for the poor kids. The cousin is also their guardian but if she wants to keep the kids she needs to find housing asap. The house will be sold in a few weeks.

I completely agree this is why people need to make wills - especially when you are unmarried but own joint property or have kids from a previous relationship. Everyone who's not single and childless should have a will that is updated every 5 years or so.

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4930 on: October 11, 2018, 10:54:19 AM »
Not super-drama worthy, but I swore like a sailor when my wife showed me a wall of texts last night.
I have to go to an industry conference in Late November, company paid, mandatory. This was decided in March. Flights and room are paid for.
In June, a first cousin F1 gave us tentative dates for her wedding in a state half way around the country. Yesterday she texted us the final dates for the wedding on a major holiday weekend.
Another first cousin F2 wants my wife and kids to travel over this crazy holiday weekend to meet them at F1's wedding. Flights are absurd expensive (can still afford), but we're not close to F1; (she's obnoxious telling us how to have kids and raise them when she didn't have a man). My dad and bro's family are going, so I'm being represented by my "clan".
Wife tells F2 that we won't attend as it's crazy for her to fly with kids during that time period and I'm not there to help; our kids are super energy, can't contain them at the airport. F2 tries to guilt trip my wife that she just wants us to be there so that our and F2's kids can play with each other.
Like WTF, are we your baby-sitter/play-dates? If we're going to a wedding, I want my kids to be sitting and observing and enjoying the wedding (which they do very well), not to be a t a play-date.
I went into a swear tirade, didn't realize my kids were sitting next to me. Had to do squats holding my ears as punishment.
Have now cancelled my plans to visit F2 in May once school year is over. I love F2 and her family, but her assholic selfishness has a price.

Follow-Up:
F2 called my dad to convince him. He said that my wife was taking care of my granny and our kids and working FT while I'm on work trip and my dad is in half-way state at the afore-mentioned wedding.
F2 then called my wife a couple of days later to try to convince her. She does this every couple of days; wifey is a saint with patience and doesn't get mad at F2 or venting out at me.
F2 then tried to video call me a week back. Didn't return call, ain't no message left.
F2 tried to have my Bro and SIL get involved in convincing game, luckily Bro ain't got time for nonsense, and SIL decided to stay the fuck outta this.
F2 then tried to video call me a couple of days back. Noped the fuck outta that.
Messaged F2 and let her know that I am aware of her shenanigans and any further efforts will result in us not visiting them in 2019. Or them coming down here to my place.
Messaged F2's husband to tell her to calm down and mind her own business.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 12:05:51 PM by jinga nation »

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4931 on: October 12, 2018, 08:00:57 AM »
It's met cousin, not my sister, so we're not close relatives. I feel extremely sorry for the poor kids. The cousin is also their guardian but if she wants to keep the kids she needs to find housing asap. The house will be sold in a few weeks.

I completely agree this is why people need to make wills - especially when you are unmarried but own joint property or have kids from a previous relationship. Everyone who's not single and childless should have a will that is updated every 5 years or so.

Oops, sorry, my bad on the sister/cousin confusion.
As the children's guardian might she be allowed to use the proceeds from the sale of the house as a down payment on another, smaller house for which she could qualify for the payments? It is really hard, because she probably wants to keep the kids in the same school district, and the choices there may be limited.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4932 on: October 12, 2018, 04:24:47 PM »
It's met cousin, not my sister, so we're not close relatives. I feel extremely sorry for the poor kids. The cousin is also their guardian but if she wants to keep the kids she needs to find housing asap. The house will be sold in a few weeks.

I completely agree this is why people need to make wills - especially when you are unmarried but own joint property or have kids from a previous relationship. Everyone who's not single and childless should have a will that is updated every 5 years or so.

Oops, sorry, my bad on the sister/cousin confusion.
As the children's guardian might she be allowed to use the proceeds from the sale of the house as a down payment on another, smaller house for which she could qualify for the payments? It is really hard, because she probably wants to keep the kids in the same school district, and the choices there may be limited.

In our country, school districts aren't a thing, but she is trying to keep the kids in the same school. We live in a very urban area with an overheated housing market, so both buying and renting are difficult.

After the mortgage, the kids' inheritance is only something like 5k each. I think under normal circumstances she probably would have been allowed to use that to buy a new home for the family, but because cousin and her late husband didn't pay their mortgage for a year before he died she's not going to get a mortgage until her credit rating recovers (and that's going to take years). If only they had at least kept up with their life insurance payments she would not be in the mess they're in now.

carolinap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4933 on: October 23, 2018, 07:54:14 AM »
That happened a long time ago, but I don't think I have posted it here.
When I landed my first job I was talking with my mother about long term plans, saving for a down payment to buy an apartment.

Then she said to me "if you find it too hard to save or buy an apartment, BUY A CAR INSTEAD so when you need a down payment you sell it and use this money for it"

Even as an inexperienced person with money I was like "WTF what about depreciation???"

But that is it about money for some folks: they feel safe and on control when they have money attached to concrete things like cars and houses.

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4934 on: October 23, 2018, 08:16:06 AM »
That happened a long time ago, but I don't think I have posted it here.
When I landed my first job I was talking with my mother about long term plans, saving for a down payment to buy an apartment.

Then she said to me "if you find it too hard to save or buy an apartment, BUY A CAR INSTEAD so when you need a down payment you sell it and use this money for it"

Even as an inexperienced person with money I was like "WTF what about depreciation???"

But that is it about money for some folks: they feel safe and on control when they have money attached to concrete things like cars and houses.

LOL...wow, I canít even...

carolinap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4935 on: October 23, 2018, 01:03:04 PM »
That happened a long time ago, but I don't think I have posted it here.
When I landed my first job I was talking with my mother about long term plans, saving for a down payment to buy an apartment.

Then she said to me "if you find it too hard to save or buy an apartment, BUY A CAR INSTEAD so when you need a down payment you sell it and use this money for it"

Even as an inexperienced person with money I was like "WTF what about depreciation???"

But that is it about money for some folks: they feel safe and on control when they have money attached to concrete things like cars and houses.

LOL...wow, I canít even...

I don't feel right on "shame and comedy" my mother, but she has way to conservative ways to deal with money that don't usually lead her to a good place financially.

When I was younger she was a SAHM and my father controlled all of the money, she had no clue about things (a bad idea in general, she had to wait 2+ years to finish her degree to be able to divorce with some perspective of a job). She graduated and has been a teacher in public school since, a really low paying job but that she always thought was the best option because of "stability"...

Two years ago the government got into a financial crisis and teachers salary are still payed 2, 3 months late. For me, the real stability is FI / cash on the bank, not some vague promise that I will be employed forever. No job is stable enough that you don't need a safety net during all your career.

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4936 on: October 23, 2018, 04:40:27 PM »
I have a good friend who is a preschool teacher. She gets paid even less than ďregularĒ teachers, but she has a unionized job with the school board and feels the same way ó she plans to keep her job forever and depend on the pension for survival. She actually has no idea how much gets taken out of her paycheck each month as pension contribution, or how much she will get each month once retired. Iíve been slowly trying to introduce ideas of saving beyond her current 10-15% forced savings rate, and chatting about various financial instruments like index funds, etc., but itís been slow going.

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4937 on: October 23, 2018, 04:46:55 PM »
We have a family member who is overweight with physical and mental health problems. He took up boxing two months ago because this type of focused exercise is good for him physically, mentally, and emotionally. We just heard that his mom is making him quit because itís too expensive. Mom is low income. When we questioned further, we found out that:

1. He was getting private lessons to the tune of $100/hour.
2. He was doing this a couple times per week.
3. He cannot join a gym or group lesson because he is a special snowflake. (Not her exact words, but that was the gist).

Itís kind of frustrating. I think mom was trying to drop hints for us to cover his lessons. Umm...no. 8% of our monthly spending already goes to this kid for private tutoring because he failed high school last year. Heís going to need to find a cheaper way to get exercise.

GatorNation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4938 on: October 24, 2018, 07:31:29 AM »
My cousin is currently 62 years old.  She has never had a job and has always depended on rich family to pay her bills.

When she was in her 30s, our grandmother gave her $20k as a down payment on a house and sent her $1,000 a month to pay the mortgage.  She, of course, used the money for herself and never paid the mortgage.  She was foreclosed and almost homeless.

After the foreclosure, her parents bought her a house to raise her 4 kids.  She is single, never married and the dad's are all deadbeats.  For the past 25 years she lived in this house rent free.  She raised her children in this house.  She now lives alone in this house as all her kids have moved out.  She never worked, as her parents also sent her money every month.

Now her parents are in their late 80s and need money for healthcare, long term care, etc.  They told my cousin that she needed to move out as they were going to sell the house.  My cousin refused to move.  Parents filed an eviction.  My cousin got a lawyer and fought them in court.  Cousin lost and had to move out.  My cousin and her kids now hate the grandparents as they believe that my cousin was entitled to the house.  They claim that the grandparents are being selfish.  My cousin and her kids have told the grandparents that they are dead to them and to never call them ever.

My cousin, 62 years old without ever having to work or pay bills, is complaining about how she has no money.  "How do my parents expect me to make a living at my age". 

Unbelievable.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4939 on: October 24, 2018, 07:57:00 AM »
My cousin is currently 62 years old.  She has never had a job and has always depended on rich family to pay her bills.

When she was in her 30s, our grandmother gave her $20k as a down payment on a house and sent her $1,000 a month to pay the mortgage.  She, of course, used the money for herself and never paid the mortgage.  She was foreclosed and almost homeless.

After the foreclosure, her parents bought her a house to raise her 4 kids.  She is single, never married and the dad's are all deadbeats.  For the past 25 years she lived in this house rent free.  She raised her children in this house.  She now lives alone in this house as all her kids have moved out.  She never worked, as her parents also sent her money every month.

Now her parents are in their late 80s and need money for healthcare, long term care, etc.  They told my cousin that she needed to move out as they were going to sell the house.  My cousin refused to move.  Parents filed an eviction.  My cousin got a lawyer and fought them in court.  Cousin lost and had to move out.  My cousin and her kids now hate the grandparents as they believe that my cousin was entitled to the house.  They claim that the grandparents are being selfish.  My cousin and her kids have told the grandparents that they are dead to them and to never call them ever.

My cousin, 62 years old without ever having to work or pay bills, is complaining about how she has no money.  "How do my parents expect me to make a living at my age". 

Unbelievable.

How rude of that cousin. I guess that is what happens when you really enable a person. They totally miss the motivation to earn their own money.

saguaro

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4940 on: October 24, 2018, 10:46:24 AM »
My cousin is currently 62 years old.  She has never had a job and has always depended on rich family to pay her bills.

When she was in her 30s, our grandmother gave her $20k as a down payment on a house and sent her $1,000 a month to pay the mortgage.  She, of course, used the money for herself and never paid the mortgage.  She was foreclosed and almost homeless.

After the foreclosure, her parents bought her a house to raise her 4 kids.  She is single, never married and the dad's are all deadbeats.  For the past 25 years she lived in this house rent free.  She raised her children in this house.  She now lives alone in this house as all her kids have moved out.  She never worked, as her parents also sent her money every month.

Now her parents are in their late 80s and need money for healthcare, long term care, etc.  They told my cousin that she needed to move out as they were going to sell the house.  My cousin refused to move.  Parents filed an eviction.  My cousin got a lawyer and fought them in court.  Cousin lost and had to move out.  My cousin and her kids now hate the grandparents as they believe that my cousin was entitled to the house.  They claim that the grandparents are being selfish.  My cousin and her kids have told the grandparents that they are dead to them and to never call them ever.

My cousin, 62 years old without ever having to work or pay bills, is complaining about how she has no money.  "How do my parents expect me to make a living at my age". 

Unbelievable.

We have a variation on this theme.   SIL is 60 and has had MIL/FIL "supplement" BIL's income for decades.    They spoiled her with cars, horses, and who knows what else when she was young.   Even when she married BIL, who made good money, she spent it all and still needed "help" from the bank of Mom and Dad.   They gave her around 15K to help her pay off her house.   It got especially bad / insane after MIL/FIL inherited money from their own parents.  Parents paid for cars, boats, two condos, constant shopping sprees, another horse, trailer for the horse, and then the big ass truck to pull the trailer.  Parents even bought her Christmas gifts for her to give out, as DH found out one year, he started thanking his mother instead lol.    This insanity has gone on  all through the parents' retirement.   Until now.

She has worked her so-called "fun" part time job (that doesn't make much and is more something for her to do) for nearly 20 years now, but now she has a new boss who changed things around at her workplace so it's not fun anymore so she puts in the minimum hours required, around 8 hours/week.   BIL has had a couple periods of lengthy unemployment but makes good money when working and now is still working at the age of 68.

Now MIL/FIL are in their late 80s (ages 86 and 88 respectively) and are at a point where they need their money for long term care and more money for healthcare now that FIL's retiree health plan changed.  They are already getting assistance with a cleaning service and hired a landscaping service to mow the lawn and shovels the snow.  They have looked into assisted living.  So they turned off the money spigot and SIL is mad.   During BIL's last bout of unemployment, BIL withdrew money from his retirement to help pay all the bills for all the property and toys that SIL "needs" because MIL/FIL stopped being the family ATM and of course, it's their fault that they had to resort to this.

And on top of this, SIL's two kids, niece and nephew, have relied on the handouts through the years as well.  While nephew now seems independent after graduating college and working full time, niece constantly calls MIL for handouts.  The last request was for a second furnace to the huge house that btw, niece and her husband bought but can't afford, but has been helped out over the years by her grandparents. 

So the MIL/FIL are not talking to their daughter, who doesn't get why they can't continue with their insane levels of EOC when the answer should be pretty damn obvious.  Pretty sad.

Interesting that DH, their son who never got a penny of EOC from them, does talk to them and makes a point to remain in contact as they get older.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 11:28:50 AM by saguaro »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4941 on: October 24, 2018, 01:50:05 PM »
Interesting that DH, their son who never got a penny of EOC from them, does talk to them and makes a point to remain in contact as they get older.
The delicious ending to this story would be if DH's parents pulled a "prodigal son's dad" and left everything to DH when they die, because SIL already got her share.

faithless

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4942 on: October 24, 2018, 02:25:53 PM »
I feel like this is partly the relatives' faults for bringing up dependant adults. If they'd set more reasonable boundaries earlier, the child/adult wouldn't have grown up with such screwed up expectations, and would likely have launched into the world as a functioning adult much sooner. Instead they've done untold damage - in reality, what work is available for a 60+ person who has never worked?

Obviously the leeches are to blame for not living within their own means, but why have they been enabled for so long?

marty998

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4943 on: October 24, 2018, 02:38:58 PM »
We have a family member who is overweight with physical and mental health problems. He took up boxing two months ago because this type of focused exercise is good for him physically, mentally, and emotionally. We just heard that his mom is making him quit because itís too expensive. Mom is low income. When we questioned further, we found out that:

1. He was getting private lessons to the tune of $100/hour.
2. He was doing this a couple times per week.
3. He cannot join a gym or group lesson because he is a special snowflake. (Not her exact words, but that was the gist).

Itís kind of frustrating. I think mom was trying to drop hints for us to cover his lessons. Umm...no. 8% of our monthly spending already goes to this kid for private tutoring because he failed high school last year. Heís going to need to find a cheaper way to get exercise.

I've personally seen this before... let me guess, the mother thinks her son is "gifted"?



My cousin, 62 years old without ever having to work or pay bills, is complaining about how she has no money.  "How do my parents expect me to make a living at my age". 

Unbelievable.

How rude of that cousin. I guess that is what happens when you really enable a person. They totally miss the motivation to earn their own money.

Human psychology is a wonderful thing.

In the wild, I've never seen animal parents "enabling" their offspring. Everyone gets kicked out of the nest when they have enough teeth/feathers/whatever.


saguaro

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4944 on: October 24, 2018, 03:27:41 PM »
Interesting that DH, their son who never got a penny of EOC from them, does talk to them and makes a point to remain in contact as they get older.
The delicious ending to this story would be if DH's parents pulled a "prodigal son's dad" and left everything to DH when they die, because SIL already got her share.

Indeed, that would be a delicious ending however I suspect DH's parents will never work up the nerve to change their wills, which is split between DH, SIL and grandkids, to reflect that, no matter how mad they are.   There's also the question that, if they did, SIL would be just the type to challenge the will(s) legally, as she has proven to be that sort of person who will go straight for the legal option no matter how unlikely she will prevail.  She spent a couple of years in a futile legal battle with her condo association and had no reservations about doing so even though she lost the case and was told from the get-go that would be the likely outcome.  She's one of those people.  Because in her words "things have to be fair" which is hilarious considering the favorable financial treatment she has received as opposed to her brother.

Seriously, what will probably happen is that MIL/FIL will spend most, if not all their money, as SIL's spendthrift ways came directly from them.  Due to DH's mustachian ways (he saw the light reading YMOYL years ago), he will not need the money but SIL will be in a world of hurt if there's nothing left.  And DH will not bail her out if that happens. 

I feel like this is partly the relatives' faults for bringing up dependant adults. If they'd set more reasonable boundaries earlier, the child/adult wouldn't have grown up with such screwed up expectations, and would likely have launched into the world as a functioning adult much sooner. Instead they've done untold damage - in reality, what work is available for a 60+ person who has never worked

I always believed that if DH's parents had learned to say the word "no", things would have probably gone differently for SIL.  But after a life of being enabled and manipulating pretty much her whole family to get what she wants, she just wants a life of "fun" and Bank of Mom and Dad should contribute.   She has strengths; I think she could have made a killing working in sales.  She has the looks and personality for it: in her last full time job (in her 20s), she was doing inside sales for a card / stationery outfit and did very well.  Had she kept with that line of work, she might have done very well for herself. 

Regarding my in laws, who created / enabled the situation, I waver between feeling sorry and not sorry for them.   Sorry because they are dealing with this towards the end of their lives and not sorry because what did they expect?  Deep down, they know what their daughter is really like.   There are times where they state it very plainly as as they are now.

In the wild, I've never seen animal parents "enabling" their offspring. Everyone gets kicked out of the nest when they have enough teeth/feathers/whatever

We saw this upfront and personal with the mama chipmunk who resides in our lawn.  Two very cute young chipmunks were seen with her early last month, but in last two weeks, we have only seen mama.  No sign of the kids at all.  Mama is busy now winterizing her home with leaves.  Probably cleaned up the place too.   

« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 04:10:19 PM by saguaro »

prudent_one

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4945 on: October 24, 2018, 04:24:12 PM »
Interesting that DH, their son who never got a penny of EOC from them, does talk to them and makes a point to remain in contact as they get older.
The delicious ending to this story would be if DH's parents pulled a "prodigal son's dad" and left everything to DH when they die, because SIL already got her share.

I have a friend who lived in a similar scenario (my friend would have been the never-got-any-EOC child) and was self-supporting. His other siblings figured out early that if you ask, you get. They worked lower-end jobs then hit up the Bank of Dad when the mood struck, so there was little motivation to work hard. A popular approach was to drop heavy hints about trips, then sigh about how they could never afford it and how sad that their kids would never be able to experience [some other country]. Dad would fork over the money believing it was to support the kids' education. Or their poor car that needed to be replaced. Or Dad should hire a grandchild in his business in a do-little job since Junior is having such a hard time finding a "suitable" job. That went on for years, but now the dad doesn't have extra to spare. His siblings will be living on meager SS income other than the one sibling who spends nothing ever.

The fair thing would be to adjust the estate shares to compensate for people who "got theirs early" but the siblings knew Dad would never do that, it divides everything equally.  So that only encouraged the siblings to hold their hand out early and often. My friend will not get what he should have but he's not bitter about it.

saguaro

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4946 on: October 24, 2018, 09:19:58 PM »
The fair thing would be to adjust the estate shares to compensate for people who "got theirs early" but the siblings knew Dad would never do that, it divides everything equally.  So that only encouraged the siblings to hold their hand out early and often. My friend will not get what he should have but he's not bitter about it.

DH is somewhat bitter about it.  As much as I try to point out that he was able to make it on his own (and should be proud of that) plus he's better off as a mustachian for it, he's still miffed that his parents favored his sister.  It not because of the money but the inequality. It says to him that he is less important and he's never forgotten that.  It doesn't help that my in laws stupidly made comparisons to his sister's husband who was making more money while DH was young, getting his start on his career and wasn't making as much.  And then finding out during that same time that his parents were supporting SIL with EOC, on top of the money her husband brought in.  They were pretty unkind about that at times so personally I think they are pretty fortunate that their son is even talking to them. 




Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4947 on: October 24, 2018, 10:14:55 PM »
We have a family member who is overweight with physical and mental health problems. He took up boxing two months ago because this type of focused exercise is good for him physically, mentally, and emotionally. We just heard that his mom is making him quit because itís too expensive. Mom is low income. When we questioned further, we found out that:

1. He was getting private lessons to the tune of $100/hour.
2. He was doing this a couple times per week.
3. He cannot join a gym or group lesson because he is a special snowflake. (Not her exact words, but that was the gist).

Itís kind of frustrating. I think mom was trying to drop hints for us to cover his lessons. Umm...no. 8% of our monthly spending already goes to this kid for private tutoring because he failed high school last year. Heís going to need to find a cheaper way to get exercise.

I've personally seen this before... let me guess, the mother thinks her son is "gifted"?

Not "gifted" per se, but definitely special and requiring special handling with kid gloves because he is "delicate" and "sensitive". This teen is almost 6 feet tall and once attacked a family member in anger (not to say big, aggressive people cannot also be delicate and sensitive -- perhaps it is because they are so sensitive that they lash out in anger...yes, that must be it). He's also a "smart boy" who was getting "excellent grades" prior to entering high school. Mama was so proud -- he was getting straight Bs and Cs. I think we hold different definitions of the word "excellent".

former player

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4948 on: October 25, 2018, 02:42:09 AM »
The fair thing would be to adjust the estate shares to compensate for people who "got theirs early" but the siblings knew Dad would never do that, it divides everything equally.  So that only encouraged the siblings to hold their hand out early and often. My friend will not get what he should have but he's not bitter about it.

DH is somewhat bitter about it.  As much as I try to point out that he was able to make it on his own (and should be proud of that) plus he's better off as a mustachian for it, he's still miffed that his parents favored his sister.  It not because of the money but the inequality. It says to him that he is less important and he's never forgotten that.  It doesn't help that my in laws stupidly made comparisons to his sister's husband who was making more money while DH was young, getting his start on his career and wasn't making as much.  And then finding out during that same time that his parents were supporting SIL with EOC, on top of the money her husband brought in.  They were pretty unkind about that at times so personally I think they are pretty fortunate that their son is even talking to them.


I think a friend of mine hit the nail on the head when she said that unequal distributions from parents to siblings, whether in life or after it, are almost always seen as unequal distributions of love from parents to their children.  And as the distribution after death is the last distribution it sets that inequality in stone, for ever.  Could you help your DH see how to separate the money from the love?  Or even, at an extreme, help his parents to do so?

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4949 on: October 25, 2018, 07:46:01 AM »
Human psychology is a wonderful thing.

In the wild, I've never seen animal parents "enabling" their offspring. Everyone gets kicked out of the nest when they have enough teeth/feathers/whatever.

Several species have been noted to care for disabled family members, including whales, dolphins and apes. You see it in species with stable social groups whose young take a long time to reach maturity.... so from that perspective this human behavior makes perfect sense. At this point, the mother has invested decades of effort into her offspring and the only way she gets any biological payoff is if he reproduces, so it makes sense to continue to invest the resources, particularly if the mother is beyond childbearing and has no other children. In fact, it's the only biologically rational thing to do.

Tl;dr: Humans are animals.