Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1507484 times)

FreshPrincess

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4750 on: August 01, 2018, 06:37:48 AM »
Conversation with my sister:

Me: I feel so relieved that dad finally got a job that pays 55k/yr.  That's about what FreshPrince makes and if we had to, we could continue living in this house on his salary alone with a few life modifications.
Sister: I hate you.  I make more than that and we couldn't live off my salary alone in our house.
Me: well, we certainly wouldn't be saving as much and i'd have to give up some of my luxuries... but we could make it work.
Sister: I still hate you.  You don't have kids.  Kids and student loans make me poor.

Narrator: But it wasn't the kids and the student loans making her poor.  It was the country club membership, leased SUV, golf trips and Nordstrom habit...

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4751 on: August 01, 2018, 09:37:47 AM »
Conversation with my sister:

Me: I feel so relieved that dad finally got a job that pays 55k/yr.  That's about what FreshPrince makes and if we had to, we could continue living in this house on his salary alone with a few life modifications.
Sister: I hate you.  I make more than that and we couldn't live off my salary alone in our house.
Me: well, we certainly wouldn't be saving as much and i'd have to give up some of my luxuries... but we could make it work.
Sister: I still hate you.  You don't have kids.  Kids and student loans make me poor.

Narrator: But it wasn't the kids and the student loans making her poor.  It was the country club membership, leased SUV, golf trips and Nordstrom habit...

Don't you call out your sister for her financial stupidity? Or do you think she'll read your mind?

My brother and I call each other out for stupid spending. Recently I bought the NES Classic Edition and my brother called me an idiot. Although he has a valid justification to have a smartwatch, I still call him an idiot. That's how we have each other's backs.

Facepunches begin at home.

FreshPrincess

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4752 on: August 01, 2018, 09:51:41 AM »
Don't you worry - she knows how I feel.  We had a long talk when she went on maternity leave and they were struggling and pulling from savings because her paycheck was cut to 70% or so...

The frustrating part is that she and her husband make a combined total of about $50k/yr more than FreshPrince and I.  So it's really easy for them to say "... but we can afford it...".

I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make her thirsty. So... her money, her problem.


Conversation with my sister:

Me: I feel so relieved that dad finally got a job that pays 55k/yr.  That's about what FreshPrince makes and if we had to, we could continue living in this house on his salary alone with a few life modifications.
Sister: I hate you.  I make more than that and we couldn't live off my salary alone in our house.
Me: well, we certainly wouldn't be saving as much and i'd have to give up some of my luxuries... but we could make it work.
Sister: I still hate you.  You don't have kids.  Kids and student loans make me poor.

Narrator: But it wasn't the kids and the student loans making her poor.  It was the country club membership, leased SUV, golf trips and Nordstrom habit...

Don't you call out your sister for her financial stupidity? Or do you think she'll read your mind?

My brother and I call each other out for stupid spending. Recently I bought the NES Classic Edition and my brother called me an idiot. Although he has a valid justification to have a smartwatch, I still call him an idiot. That's how we have each other's backs.

Facepunches begin at home.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 11:28:53 AM by FreshPrincess »

K-ice

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4753 on: August 01, 2018, 11:23:13 AM »
This hit home.

Don't you call out your sister for her financial stupidity? Or do you think she'll read your mind?

My brother and I call each other out for stupid spending. Recently I bought the NES Classic Edition and my brother called me an idiot. Although he has a valid justification to have a smartwatch, I still call him an idiot. That's how we have each other's backs.

Facepunches begin at home.

Nope! I don't dare.

It sounds like you have a great sibling relationship.

I could go on and on about the leased vehicles, expensive dinners and wine, expensive hobbies, "once in a lifetime" trips, autographed junk,  parental loans...

But they have no problem making me feel bad for being frugal.

I've gotten over it. (But obviously not enough to not rant here a bit :) )

FireHiker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4754 on: August 01, 2018, 12:33:25 PM »
I trusted my parents to take care of themselves and my kids trust me.  They had a modest pension, SS and savings. My dad died at 73 and my mom lived within her means, traveled , etc . She also prepaid all funeral expenses.   In her late 80’s she no longer wants to travel, lives within her means and would never take a dime from anyone.  When she passed she left no debts and no inheritance.  I am so glad she enjoyed her money.  We never worried because we knew she would adjust to her circumstances without burdening others.

I am so jealous of this. I heard from my mom over the weekend. Background: We do not have a good relationship; I grew up in chaos with poverty and homelessness...that would have been preventable in large part if she hadn't been a spender. She's spent the past ten years not working, mooching off of other people: first her sister, then she spent 5 years "caretaking" a house for a friend (when they suggested she finally pay very marginal, below market, rent, she moved back with her sister), and now she's been back at her sister's for 2.5 years. The house is so gross and unsanitary that I won't visit: original carpet from the 1980's with a stench from years of cat, dog, and bird waste, ugh it's so gross. Anyway, her sister is finally selling the house so my mom is scrambling to find somewhere to live. Again. She hasn't paid rent in ten years and has zero savings to show for it. I used to have access to her bank account and tallied one year that she spent 2/3 of her meager monthly income (social security and a small pension) buying crap on ebay. We are absolutely not in a position to bail her out financially; my oldest goes to college in another year. She has ignored my financial advice and offers of help for years and years. She will NOT be living with us because it would be an absolute disaster. But, ugh, I feel the stress over the whole situation. She should have applied for section 8 housing ten years ago when I suggested it, and I think she finally did a year or two ago. It has a 6-10 year wait list depending on the county...if she had done it ten years ago she would likely be settled somewhere. But, she's never been one to plan ahead, ever, so everything is ALWAYS a crisis. I remember that from utility bills being shut off, cars not being maintained, not having dental care for several years as a child and then getting a root canal at 17 because of it.

Wow, sorry for the rant...guess I needed to get some of that out today.

partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4755 on: August 01, 2018, 12:53:00 PM »
yes, both my older brother and my sister need to apply to get on that list. i have been suggesting this for years to get on it now; the worst is when you qualify you don't need it. And their answer is, "well you still need an income to qualify, and what if I don't have a job?" (both are living rent free with family members, both currently don't work). Hmm. Don't have an answer for that, other than, get a job, make some kind of income? I get stressed just thinking about their situations, but it's still not a hair on fire situation, even though they completely dependent on someone else for housing and support? and one of them is living with someone who has already stated they are selling their house in a year to move into a small apartment (i.e. no more free housing).

I actually really am grateful for this thread because I see even worse messed up situations than my own family.  And I know when the time comes where I'm expected for provide free housing, it will be very hard to say no, even if the situation was entirely preventable.
The Yes but is really strong with my sister. I suggested that she move from the (expensive suburb) she currently lives and can't afford to a town in NC, and I would let her live with me 2, 3 months rent free to make transition. Her remark was, sorry I don't want to live through the Compton riots." Basically, she is insulting where I live, because, there are more Black people living here? I saw red, and figured, she can just keep helping herself.     

craiglepaige

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4756 on: August 01, 2018, 06:39:28 PM »
yes, both my older brother and my sister need to apply to get on that list. i have been suggesting this for years to get on it now; the worst is when you qualify you don't need it. And their answer is, "well you still need an income to qualify, and what if I don't have a job?" (both are living rent free with family members, both currently don't work). Hmm. Don't have an answer for that, other than, get a job, make some kind of income? I get stressed just thinking about their situations, but it's still not a hair on fire situation, even though they completely dependent on someone else for housing and support? and one of them is living with someone who has already stated they are selling their house in a year to move into a small apartment (i.e. no more free housing).

I actually really am grateful for this thread because I see even worse messed up situations than my own family.  And I know when the time comes where I'm expected for provide free housing, it will be very hard to say no, even if the situation was entirely preventable.
The Yes but is really strong with my sister. I suggested that she move from the (expensive suburb) she currently lives and can't afford to a town in NC, and I would let her live with me 2, 3 months rent free to make transition. Her remark was, sorry I don't want to live through the Compton riots." Basically, she is insulting where I live, because, there are more Black people living here? I saw red, and figured, she can just keep helping herself.     


What a stupid thing to say.
Sorry!

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4757 on: August 01, 2018, 10:54:54 PM »
So sorry to people experiencing their family trying to manipulate them and expecting to be taken care of.  Stay strong and set boundaries.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4758 on: August 02, 2018, 02:55:20 PM »
The Yes but is really strong with my sister. I suggested that she move from the (expensive suburb) she currently lives and can't afford to a town in NC, and I would let her live with me 2, 3 months rent free to make transition. Her remark was, sorry I don't want to live through the Compton riots." Basically, she is insulting where I live, because, there are more Black people living here? I saw red, and figured, she can just keep helping herself.     

Well, okayyyyy then... I guess you want to find and fund your own housing.

So sorry for all of you!

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4759 on: August 03, 2018, 01:55:56 AM »
Have to vent a bit...

A family member who is terrible with finances and budgeting spent several minutes whinging about the need to hire a tutor for her teenage kid who is flunking out of school and how she can’t afford the expense. We offer to pay for her kid’s tutoring, with the caveat that kid also needs to put in work, otherwise we pull our support. The next day, I see her shopping online for $100 handbags and a $100 Tiffany ID tag for their dog.

Sigh.

We will still pay for kid’s tutoring. No point making the kid suffer for their mom’s stupidity. But if the kid skips or cancels even one session because they’re “too tired” or “doesn’t feel like it” or “doesn’t need it” that day, then we are not paying for any future sessions. We don’t believe in working harder than the actual individual to save the individual.

reeshau

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4760 on: August 03, 2018, 06:39:20 AM »
We don’t believe in working harder than the actual individual to save the individual.
@Freedomin5, I love how you phrased this!

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4761 on: August 03, 2018, 07:28:17 AM »
So self-responsibility may be a dying thing? ;)

(Maybe it never existed?)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 07:32:17 AM by Just Joe »

FIRE@50

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4762 on: August 03, 2018, 08:10:30 AM »
Conversation with my sister:

Me: I feel so relieved that dad finally got a job that pays 55k/yr.  That's about what FreshPrince makes and if we had to, we could continue living in this house on his salary alone with a few life modifications.
Sister: I hate you.  I make more than that and we couldn't live off my salary alone in our house.
Me: well, we certainly wouldn't be saving as much and i'd have to give up some of my luxuries... but we could make it work.
Sister: I still hate you.  You don't have kids.  Kids and student loans make me poor.

Narrator: But it wasn't the kids and the student loans making her poor.  It was the country club membership, leased SUV, golf trips and Nordstrom habit...

Don't you call out your sister for her financial stupidity? Or do you think she'll read your mind?

My brother and I call each other out for stupid spending. Recently I bought the NES Classic Edition and my brother called me an idiot. Although he has a valid justification to have a smartwatch, I still call him an idiot. That's how we have each other's backs.

Facepunches begin at home.
PLEASE run for office with this as your campaign slogan. I don't care what office it is. The hats and t-shirt sales would be off the charts.

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4763 on: August 03, 2018, 08:55:00 AM »
So self-responsibility may be a dying thing? ;)

(Maybe it never existed?)

@Just Joe  Probably doesn’t exist in the mom, especially when you factor in a history of severe mental illness, long-term emotional abuse as a child and now as an adult by family members, and traumatic brain injury. So a kid growing up in that kind of environment started life holding firmly to the short straw. Never had a chance to learn about responsibility or see it modeled. Kid only experienced the first two (of the three circumstances mentioned), so we are hoping he has enough resilience to graduate high school and leave the chaotic household to get a university degree, which just may allow him to escape the cycle. That’s the only reason we are supporting him — to give him a fighting chance. If I lived in the same country as he does, I’d tutor him myself. But since I don’t, a good chunk of my monthly after-tax income goes toward giving him a fighting chance of having a decent life so that he will end up on the contributing end and not the receiving end of social assistance.

One of my biggest worries is that mom may inadvertently sabotage his efforts. Mom is constantly telling him to “take it easy” and “not over-exert himself” because “emotional health is important” and “growing boys need their sleep” so he should “sleep in until noon”. When he asks her and other family members to stop screaming at each other so he can study, she tells him he has to figure it out for himself and she’s not going to baby him. And then she turns around and calls him irresponsible when he is unable to finish his work. I told mom he needs to meet with his tutor at the library and she insists that he meets the tutor at home because “it’s not convenient in the winter”. Um...1) it’s summer right now, and 2) the library is a 5-minute walk away, as in, my 4-year-old has walked to the library in 5 minutes. Then I suggested he meet at the tutor’s home, who happens to be a neighbor; her excuse is that he might get anxious in an unfamiliar environment. I can’t help the mom; I sure hope the kid has the balls to go for what he wants and develop a thick enough skin to identify and ignore his mom’s ignorant suggestions.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4764 on: August 03, 2018, 11:22:59 AM »
Have to vent a bit...

A family member who is terrible with finances and budgeting spent several minutes whinging about the need to hire a tutor for her teenage kid who is flunking out of school and how she can’t afford the expense. We offer to pay for her kid’s tutoring, with the caveat that kid also needs to put in work, otherwise we pull our support. The next day, I see her shopping online for $100 handbags and a $100 Tiffany ID tag for their dog.

Sigh.

We will still pay for kid’s tutoring. No point making the kid suffer for their mom’s stupidity. But if the kid skips or cancels even one session because they’re “too tired” or “doesn’t feel like it” or “doesn’t need it” that day, then we are not paying for any future sessions. We don’t believe in working harder than the actual individual to save the individual.

Have you communicated your requirements to the kid directly?  It does not sound like you can count on mom to relay the importance of this.  I would also recommend khan academy, you do have to be self motivated but even as an adult working engineer I found it helpful for going back and reviewing some things. 

Freedomin5

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4765 on: August 03, 2018, 11:51:57 AM »
Have to vent a bit...

A family member who is terrible with finances and budgeting spent several minutes whinging about the need to hire a tutor for her teenage kid who is flunking out of school and how she can’t afford the expense. We offer to pay for her kid’s tutoring, with the caveat that kid also needs to put in work, otherwise we pull our support. The next day, I see her shopping online for $100 handbags and a $100 Tiffany ID tag for their dog.

Sigh.

We will still pay for kid’s tutoring. No point making the kid suffer for their mom’s stupidity. But if the kid skips or cancels even one session because they’re “too tired” or “doesn’t feel like it” or “doesn’t need it” that day, then we are not paying for any future sessions. We don’t believe in working harder than the actual individual to save the individual.

Have you communicated your requirements to the kid directly?  It does not sound like you can count on mom to relay the importance of this.  I would also recommend khan academy, you do have to be self motivated but even as an adult working engineer I found it helpful for going back and reviewing some things.

@AlanStache Yes. It’s been communicated to the mom, the kid, and the tutor individually. Tutor has instructions to update me weekly with the number of hours of tutoring completed and with his progress.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4766 on: August 03, 2018, 03:30:59 PM »

I have a friend whose sister is an older version of your SIL.  Friend's sister is mid-50's and her parents paid for a house, utilities etc. etc. and sister never worked a day in her life.  Mid-50's with no resume so probably unemployable at this point.  My friend resents her.  All the 'family help' went to one sibling and the other two sibs got very, very little.   

It is clear to us that we have less of a relationship with the in laws than their other children in large part because we don't need them. Clearly these are not people we were ever going to be able to have a warm adult relationship with.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4767 on: August 06, 2018, 08:54:25 AM »
So self-responsibility may be a dying thing? ;)

(Maybe it never existed?)

@Just Joe  Probably doesn’t exist in the mom, especially when you factor in a history of severe mental illness, long-term emotional abuse as a child and now as an adult by family members, and traumatic brain injury. So a kid growing up in that kind of environment started life holding firmly to the short straw. Never had a chance to learn about responsibility or see it modeled. Kid only experienced the first two (of the three circumstances mentioned), so we are hoping he has enough resilience to graduate high school and leave the chaotic household to get a university degree, which just may allow him to escape the cycle. That’s the only reason we are supporting him — to give him a fighting chance. If I lived in the same country as he does, I’d tutor him myself. But since I don’t, a good chunk of my monthly after-tax income goes toward giving him a fighting chance of having a decent life so that he will end up on the contributing end and not the receiving end of social assistance.

One of my biggest worries is that mom may inadvertently sabotage his efforts. Mom is constantly telling him to “take it easy” and “not over-exert himself” because “emotional health is important” and “growing boys need their sleep” so he should “sleep in until noon”. When he asks her and other family members to stop screaming at each other so he can study, she tells him he has to figure it out for himself and she’s not going to baby him. And then she turns around and calls him irresponsible when he is unable to finish his work. I told mom he needs to meet with his tutor at the library and she insists that he meets the tutor at home because “it’s not convenient in the winter”. Um...1) it’s summer right now, and 2) the library is a 5-minute walk away, as in, my 4-year-old has walked to the library in 5 minutes. Then I suggested he meet at the tutor’s home, who happens to be a neighbor; her excuse is that he might get anxious in an unfamiliar environment. I can’t help the mom; I sure hope the kid has the balls to go for what he wants and develop a thick enough skin to identify and ignore his mom’s ignorant suggestions.

The kid is very, very lucky to have you in his life.

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4768 on: August 06, 2018, 09:18:46 AM »
Conversation with my sister:

Me: I feel so relieved that dad finally got a job that pays 55k/yr.  That's about what FreshPrince makes and if we had to, we could continue living in this house on his salary alone with a few life modifications.
Sister: I hate you.  I make more than that and we couldn't live off my salary alone in our house.
Me: well, we certainly wouldn't be saving as much and i'd have to give up some of my luxuries... but we could make it work.
Sister: I still hate you.  You don't have kids.  Kids and student loans make me poor.

Narrator: But it wasn't the kids and the student loans making her poor.  It was the country club membership, leased SUV, golf trips and Nordstrom habit...

Don't you call out your sister for her financial stupidity? Or do you think she'll read your mind?

My brother and I call each other out for stupid spending. Recently I bought the NES Classic Edition and my brother called me an idiot. Although he has a valid justification to have a smartwatch, I still call him an idiot. That's how we have each other's backs.

Facepunches begin at home.
PLEASE run for office with this as your campaign slogan. I don't care what office it is. The hats and t-shirt sales would be off the charts.

I'll never run for public office in this country (USA). That's opening up my private life to media and opponents and all kinds of nasties. Especially when I'm outed as being financially conservative and socially liberal (watch them wrestle with that juxtaposition), and who "profited off people's misfortunes" (I actually used savings to buy foreclousures for cash after the housing crisis).
Side effect: they'll connect the dots from me to MMMForums, and the MMMan himself, which may rain horse manure on us all.
No good deed goes unpunished.
And I don't need money from hats and t-shirt sales. Fuck that consumerism bullshit (no offence to FIRE@50).

ducky19

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4769 on: August 06, 2018, 11:52:33 AM »
I think fiscally conservative and socially liberal describes a lot of folks here - a "live and let live" philosophy, better known as the Libertarian party. If only we could get someone more electable than Gary Johnson on the ticket, I think we'd have a shot at breaking down the two party system that has failed this country utterly. Not trying to derail the thread, apologize in advance if it does!

Rubic

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4770 on: August 06, 2018, 02:33:40 PM »
I think fiscally conservative and socially liberal describes a lot of folks here

Yep.  I've described myself in exactly those words since George W. Bush Bill Clinton was president.

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4771 on: August 07, 2018, 09:05:23 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

onlykelsey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4772 on: August 07, 2018, 09:07:15 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

Oof.  I had a father like that.  He once threatened to sue teenaged me for money my dead mother (to whom he was not married) left me for college.  I know now that was a toothless threat, but talk about dependent behavior.

Cool Friend

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4773 on: August 07, 2018, 09:08:34 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

Jesus, is that even legal?

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4774 on: August 07, 2018, 09:15:19 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

So...your mother committed identity theft...and you paid the bills to cover up for her? Wow...


RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4775 on: August 07, 2018, 09:22:55 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

Jesus, is that even legal?

No, it is certainly not. It's identity theft, as mentioned by patchyfacialhair. This comes up often on reddit's /r/personalfinance/ section. Some parents just don't care that they throw their children under the bus to get ahead temporarily.

The unfortunate thing is because they are "family" a lot of people are hesitant to report them to the police. Your two options are claim fraud and risk having your family member locked up or eat the cost, live with your crappy credit score, and hope they don't do it again...

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4776 on: August 07, 2018, 09:25:16 AM »
...and go low contact. Never again would I want untrustworthy people - even parents - to get a peek into my financial and professional life.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4777 on: August 07, 2018, 09:44:25 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

That's absolutely terrible. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

There are a group of us on here who do "tradeline sales" in which we add people who want to raise their credit score as authorized users on our credit cards to  temporarily raise their credit scores. This strategy can also work when people you know add you as an authorized user on their cards. If you're still hurting from a credit perspective, PM me and I can talk you through the details; you can potentially save quite a bit in mortgage interest.

marion10

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4778 on: August 07, 2018, 10:57:40 AM »
I had a friend who taught at a private school that was for high achieving low income youth. This was a regular occurence when her seniors turned 18- that a family member (often a parent) would either fraudulently take out credit cards using their information or get them to be a co-signer. Horrible- she tried to warn kids- but they felt they could not go against their family.

UnleashHell

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4779 on: August 07, 2018, 11:00:31 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

4 times? she's already had 3 gifts of money from you!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4780 on: August 07, 2018, 11:17:36 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

So...your mother committed identity theft...and you paid the bills to cover up for her? Wow...

In the kind of family where a parent feels entitled to steal from a son or daughter, there's generally a whole lot of toxic programming that starts at birth. One person-- let's call him or her the Emperor-- is entitled to do whatever he or she wants to the designated target-- let's call him or her the Peasant. The Peasant's job is to work hard, not complain, serve the Emperor, and make sure to always forgive the Emperor no matter what.

The kind of extreme entitlement that leads to stealing from a relative *always* has a basis in fact. Someone, somewhere, teaches the thief that it's OK to do such things and that not only will there never be any negative consequences, but the theft is right and appropriate. For the victim to object or to seek legal redress is in fact wrong and inappropriate according to family rules. There are often people besides the Emperor or the Peasant who reinforce the family rules to keep the Peasants in line.

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4781 on: August 07, 2018, 11:33:56 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

So...your mother committed identity theft...and you paid the bills to cover up for her? Wow...
It was explained to me, quite clearly, that there were two ways to discharge the debt:
  • Paying it
  • Bringing creditors the police report and court findings against the guilty party
I chose not to press charges.

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4782 on: August 07, 2018, 11:58:54 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

So...your mother committed identity theft...and you paid the bills to cover up for her? Wow...
It was explained to me, quite clearly, that there were two ways to discharge the debt:
  • Paying it
  • Bringing creditors the police report and court findings against the guilty party
I chose not to press charges.

Well, what's done is done. I hope you never get put in that position again. I can't say I'd react the same way, and I love my folks as much as my own kid, which is a ton.

fredbear

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4783 on: August 07, 2018, 07:57:15 PM »
...It was explained to me, quite clearly, that there were two ways to discharge the debt:
  • Paying it
  • Bringing creditors the police report and court findings against the guilty party
I chose not to press charges.

She has your SSN.

Visit each credit bureau’s site to get more information about placing a security freeze on your credit report.

    Equifax: Freeze Your Equifax Credit Report, 1-800-685-1111 (NY residents 1-800-349-9960)
    Experian: Freeze Your Experian Credit Report, 1-888-397-3742
    TransUnion: Freeze Your TransUnion Credit Report, 1-888-909-8872

After yet another of his drug-based frauds and arrests, I commented to the mother of my half-brother that maybe he'd get to do time, this time.  She was outraged.  I told her, "I don't say that with any pleasure.  But nothing you have done, nothing his father did, nothing any of us has done, has done any good at all.  There's no point in repeating what we've done.  Our best efforts have failed.  To the tune of $10,000s.  Maybe another way will reach him.  Clearly we can't."

barbaz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4784 on: August 08, 2018, 03:38:19 AM »
my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.

Jesus, is that even legal?

No, it is certainly not. It's identity theft, as mentioned by patchyfacialhair. This comes up often on reddit's /r/personalfinance/ section. Some parents just don't care that they throw their children under the bus to get ahead temporarily.
That this is even possible baffles me more than how you are still using checks in the 21st century

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4785 on: August 08, 2018, 06:56:44 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

4 times? she's already had 3 gifts of money from you!
Two hours after you made this post, my mother called me to ask, for the fifth time this year, for a loan. I told her that I didn't have any money to give her. She asked if I would put her car payment on my credit card.

What's a shame to me is that, growing up, I remember my mother being a model parent. In college if she asked once or twice a year for money, I was doing the same over the holiday breaks, and that only seemed fair.  But over time, I've needed fewer and fewer 'loans', and she's needed more and more. It also turns out I'm not the only person she's borrowing money from. She borrowed 1600 dollars from my younger brother a month ago.
A lot of the women in my family have struggled with early-onset dementia, and sometimes I wonder... my mother is getting to be the right age...

Candace

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4786 on: August 08, 2018, 07:37:14 AM »
...It was explained to me, quite clearly, that there were two ways to discharge the debt:
  • Paying it
  • Bringing creditors the police report and court findings against the guilty party
I chose not to press charges.

She has your SSN.

Visit each credit bureau’s site to get more information about placing a security freeze on your credit report.

    Equifax: Freeze Your Equifax Credit Report, 1-800-685-1111 (NY residents 1-800-349-9960)
    Experian: Freeze Your Experian Credit Report, 1-888-397-3742
    TransUnion: Freeze Your TransUnion Credit Report, 1-888-909-8872

After yet another of his drug-based frauds and arrests, I commented to the mother of my half-brother that maybe he'd get to do time, this time.  She was outraged.  I told her, "I don't say that with any pleasure.  But nothing you have done, nothing his father did, nothing any of us has done, has done any good at all.  There's no point in repeating what we've done.  Our best efforts have failed.  To the tune of $10,000s.  Maybe another way will reach him.  Clearly we can't."

+1. Definitely freeze your credit reports. This will help protect your identity.

I'm very sorry this happened to you. Good luck going forward.

UnleashHell

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4787 on: August 08, 2018, 09:33:02 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

4 times? she's already had 3 gifts of money from you!
Two hours after you made this post, my mother called me to ask, for the fifth time this year, for a loan. I told her that I didn't have any money to give her. She asked if I would put her car payment on my credit card.

What's a shame to me is that, growing up, I remember my mother being a model parent. In college if she asked once or twice a year for money, I was doing the same over the holiday breaks, and that only seemed fair.  But over time, I've needed fewer and fewer 'loans', and she's needed more and more. It also turns out I'm not the only person she's borrowing money from. She borrowed 1600 dollars from my younger brother a month ago.
A lot of the women in my family have struggled with early-onset dementia, and sometimes I wonder... my mother is getting to be the right age...

I'd be asking her what her plan was for paying back the money it cost you to sort out the credit cards she opened in your name. plus interest.

former player

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4788 on: August 08, 2018, 09:43:21 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

4 times? she's already had 3 gifts of money from you!
Two hours after you made this post, my mother called me to ask, for the fifth time this year, for a loan. I told her that I didn't have any money to give her. She asked if I would put her car payment on my credit card.

What's a shame to me is that, growing up, I remember my mother being a model parent. In college if she asked once or twice a year for money, I was doing the same over the holiday breaks, and that only seemed fair.  But over time, I've needed fewer and fewer 'loans', and she's needed more and more. It also turns out I'm not the only person she's borrowing money from. She borrowed 1600 dollars from my younger brother a month ago.
A lot of the women in my family have struggled with early-onset dementia, and sometimes I wonder... my mother is getting to be the right age...

I'd be asking her what her plan was for paying back the money it cost you to sort out the credit cards she opened in your name. plus interest.
Yes, send her a bill for what it's cost you to pay off the cards, with a note saying that you will be happy to discuss her financial needs after she has repaid the amount she took out on those cards.  No worries, you'll never have to even discuss any future loans.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4789 on: August 08, 2018, 12:08:26 PM »
...It was explained to me, quite clearly, that there were two ways to discharge the debt:
  • Paying it
  • Bringing creditors the police report and court findings against the guilty party
I chose not to press charges.

She has your SSN.

Visit each credit bureau’s site to get more information about placing a security freeze on your credit report.

    Equifax: Freeze Your Equifax Credit Report, 1-800-685-1111 (NY residents 1-800-349-9960)
    Experian: Freeze Your Experian Credit Report, 1-888-397-3742
    TransUnion: Freeze Your TransUnion Credit Report, 1-888-909-8872

After yet another of his drug-based frauds and arrests, I commented to the mother of my half-brother that maybe he'd get to do time, this time.  She was outraged.  I told her, "I don't say that with any pleasure.  But nothing you have done, nothing his father did, nothing any of us has done, has done any good at all.  There's no point in repeating what we've done.  Our best efforts have failed.  To the tune of $10,000s.  Maybe another way will reach him.  Clearly we can't."
Agree with this - mom might borrow the money whether NC knows it or not.

fredbear - From what I've seen, doing time probably won't really change anything for your half-brother.  Maybe for a short time, but at least in my family's experience, jail isn't so bad by itself to spur long-term change. What it will do is give the family a break from all of the addict's bullshit - won't be confronted with all the crazy behavior unless you choose to be if they're in jail. Depending on how bad off the person is, it could be a step up in terms of being a relatively safe environment too.

Cool Friend

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4790 on: August 09, 2018, 10:17:14 AM »
In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

So...your mother committed identity theft...and you paid the bills to cover up for her? Wow...

In the kind of family where a parent feels entitled to steal from a son or daughter, there's generally a whole lot of toxic programming that starts at birth. One person-- let's call him or her the Emperor-- is entitled to do whatever he or she wants to the designated target-- let's call him or her the Peasant. The Peasant's job is to work hard, not complain, serve the Emperor, and make sure to always forgive the Emperor no matter what.

The kind of extreme entitlement that leads to stealing from a relative *always* has a basis in fact. Someone, somewhere, teaches the thief that it's OK to do such things and that not only will there never be any negative consequences, but the theft is right and appropriate. For the victim to object or to seek legal redress is in fact wrong and inappropriate according to family rules. There are often people besides the Emperor or the Peasant who reinforce the family rules to keep the Peasants in line.

Oh yes, I grew up with a parent who did this.  I started working at 15 because I was on my own for school lunch, clothes, etc.  I had to open a joint checking account with my mom because I was a minor.  She regularly dipped into this account without telling me.  When I found out, she told me that this was money I "owed" her (presumably for the food and shelter she was legally obliged to provide).  By the way, she was the one who verbally abused me until I got the job.  It all fell into place why: she saw me as an extra income source to fuel her atrocious financial habits.  I started cashing my checks and hiding the money in increasingly obscure places because she would tear through my room when I wasn't home.


FIRE@50

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4791 on: August 09, 2018, 10:20:17 AM »
I had to hide my paychecks from my mom until I was old enough to get my own checking account. I used to just slide them under the bottom desk drawer in my room. Took them all to the bank at once right before I went to college.

87tweetybirds

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4792 on: August 09, 2018, 03:19:09 PM »
One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

Catbert

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4793 on: August 11, 2018, 12:35:45 PM »
DH and  I have a birthday lunch each year with his sister and her son b/c all 4 of our birthdays are the same month.  We only see the nephew a couple of times a year, some years only once.

A little background:  In the past nephew has been a jeans, tee shirt and tats kinda guy.  A couple of years ago he bought   leased a car so he could make money doing Uber.  That worked as well as you would expect.  Earlier this year he got a steady job.  Not high paying but 40 hours a week with health insurance at a company you've actually have heard of.  Things are looking up.  Now...

He comes in the restaurant dressed  like a rapper (or at least what my 65 y.o. eyes think a rapper looks like):  oversized football jersey, baggy, long shorts, lots of jewelry (cheap in his case), baseball hat with a flat brim, shaved head etc.  He's all about his music and how his music career is taking off.  Showed us how he can "play" guitar on his iphone X.  How he's playing in the barrio and is "the only white boy who dares go there".  How all the girls on his instagram post bikini pics.  He uses cool filters (available only on iphone X) to take pics of him getting out the shower with a towel wrapped around his waist.  How he's going to start a charity for poor single mothers which sounds like a great way to meet vunerable young women.

Typical not-got-their-act-together 20-something behavior you say?  Maybe he'll outgrow it and get his act together.? Yea, maybe.  Except he's 49.  How long until he gives up the steady job so he can devote more time to his music is anybody's guess.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 01:33:07 PM by Catbert »

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4794 on: August 11, 2018, 03:15:02 PM »
DH and  I have a birthday lunch each year with his sister and her son b/c all 4 of our birthdays are the same month.  We only see the nephew a couple of times a year, some years only once.

A little background:  In the past nephew has been a jeans, tee shirt and tats kinda guy.  A couple of years ago he bought   leased a car so he could make money doing Uber.  That worked as well as you would expect.  Earlier this year he got a steady job.  Not high paying but 40 hours a week with health insurance at a company you've actually have heard of.  Things are looking up.  Now...

He comes in the restaurant dressed  like a rapper (or at least what my 65 y.o. eyes think a rapper looks like):  oversized football jersey, baggy, long shorts, lots of jewelry (cheap in his case), baseball hat with a flat brim, shaved head etc.  He's all about his music and how his music career is taking off.  Showed us how he can "play" guitar on his iphone X.  How he's playing in the barrio and is "the only white boy who dares go there".  How all the girls on his instagram post bikini pics.  He uses cool filters (available only on iphone X) to take pics of him getting out the shower with a towel wrapped around his waist.  How he's going to start a charity for poor single mothers which sounds like a great way to meet vunerable young women.

Typical not-got-their-act-together 20-something behavior you say?  Maybe he'll outgrow it and get his act together.? Yea, maybe.  Except he's 49.  How long until he gives up the steady job so he can devote more time to his music is anybody's guess.

Now that is how you do a midlife crisis!

Lanthiriel

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4795 on: August 11, 2018, 05:15:22 PM »
Update: I tried to have a conversation with my mom when she was here, but she assured me that she’s planning to sell the truck and trailer. And that my dad plans to retire in 2 years so she has money coming. She has finally looked up her social security benefits and it sounds like she’s only expecting $500/mo from social security and $400/mo from her teacher’s pension. But at least that’s something.

Then my sister calls me today to tell me that my mom told her she had to take a cash advance on her credit card to pay her bills because of her two week unpaid vacation. What happened to the $25k I know she had after she closed on her house only 9 months ago?! Is it possible she’s lived that far beyond her means in that time? My sister also said that from her conversations with dad, it doesn’t sound like he’ll retire as soon as he is eligible but will work probably  another 5 years.

After listening to my mother describe all of the furniture she’s purchased since she moved into her house, my husband made it very clear that she will never see a penny from us. It’s actually freeing to have someone willing to just say no. Period. But still... what a mess.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4796 on: August 11, 2018, 06:38:15 PM »
One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.
@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.



Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4797 on: August 12, 2018, 12:37:44 PM »
LAN, what Ames’s indeed. Hopefully she won’t ask any of the kids for money and just figures it out. Hope her health holds up because she is going to have to work for a very long time.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4798 on: August 12, 2018, 04:14:12 PM »
One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.
@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.

Slee_stack

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4799 on: August 13, 2018, 09:16:14 AM »
DH and  I have a birthday lunch each year with his sister and her son b/c all 4 of our birthdays are the same month.  We only see the nephew a couple of times a year, some years only once.

A little background:  In the past nephew has been a jeans, tee shirt and tats kinda guy.  A couple of years ago he bought   leased a car so he could make money doing Uber.  That worked as well as you would expect.  Earlier this year he got a steady job.  Not high paying but 40 hours a week with health insurance at a company you've actually have heard of.  Things are looking up.  Now...

He comes in the restaurant dressed  like a rapper (or at least what my 65 y.o. eyes think a rapper looks like):  oversized football jersey, baggy, long shorts, lots of jewelry (cheap in his case), baseball hat with a flat brim, shaved head etc.  He's all about his music and how his music career is taking off.  Showed us how he can "play" guitar on his iphone X.  How he's playing in the barrio and is "the only white boy who dares go there".  How all the girls on his instagram post bikini pics.  He uses cool filters (available only on iphone X) to take pics of him getting out the shower with a towel wrapped around his waist.  How he's going to start a charity for poor single mothers which sounds like a great way to meet vunerable young women.

Typical not-got-their-act-together 20-something behavior you say?  Maybe he'll outgrow it and get his act together.? Yea, maybe.  Except he's 49.  How long until he gives up the steady job so he can devote more time to his music is anybody's guess.
Sounds like nephew has nailed the aspiring part of the 'aspiring rapper' phrase that seems to pop up so often.