Relatives who just don't get it

[RetiredAt63]

And there are few places in Canada where you would want to drive a Ferrari in winter - so it is basically a summer car.  What a waste.

[Slee_stack]

I have an older moonbat (OM) distant relative who is thinking about investing in a business for another, much younger, moonbat (YM) relative to run.

I can't possibly see how this won't be full of WIN.

The younger relative is a 20 y.o. pothead who is 'kind of' in school, and is taking classes he got 'stuck with' because he 'forgot' to register and really had no choice in what to take. 

He 'has his own place' (lives with a girlfriend whose parents pay the rent) and has trouble coming up with his share of the internet bill.  He is always looking for handouts.  He currently has two different parents AND a grandparent paying for his cell phone bill....each!  He neglected to mention to any of them about the other's contributions.  He just pockets the 'windfall'.

This last month he had an unexpected crisis. He needed to replace his car because somebody tried to 'hot wire' it and it caught on fire.  His car was a mid 2000's VW or something.  I'm not sure it was a PRIME target for a thief to 'hotwire'....but he is positive this is what happened.

Before OM entered the picture, YM's plan was to 'hit the road with the band'.  He seems to think that the $20/night income on average he'd make is plenty enough to live on the road.  Frankly I'd be shocked if he made it out of a gig w/o drinking the twenty bucks away during it.  I'm not sure how the daily weed fund is going to be funded on top of that.  Maybe he can get a fourth person to pay the cell phone?

The grand plan that OM has come up with is to 'invest in' a Pot Farm and have YM, a 20 y.o. wake-and-bake reefer dude, manage it.   Wow.  Just wow.  This is a Fox-running-the-Henhouse level of insanity.

If this plan POSSIBLY goes awry, I will hopefully at least have a few entertaining tales to share down the road.

[kaypinkHH]

Omg, your moonbats make my ferrari loving inlaws look normal.

[Step37]

Omg, your moonbats make my ferrari loving inlaws look normal.

@Slee_stack, your crazy relatives could give this thread a run for its money!

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/my-soon-to-be-millionaires-family-members/msg1986973/#new

[craiglepaige]

My brother spent $1600 on a used set of "mudder" rims/tires for his Jeep Wrangler. We all live in the city. He has never been "mudding".

[MrsWhipple]

Visiting with the inlaws this weekend:
"I'm definitely going to get a new oven. Just need to refinance the house."
Later...
"And I'm going to get a new dishwasher, too. You can't live with this!" <gestures to the dishwasher that rattles slightly when you put the bottom tray in.>
I just smiled and nodded. We don't have a dishwasher at our house, and our oven is half the size of theirs.

Then they are talking about throwing a graduation party for their high schooler:
"We wanted to go all out. Rent a hall, get it catered, rent a bounce house maybe. Then we decided against it, she wants to go to the grand canyon instead."
Me, relieved: "That's a great idea!"
"Yeah, and with all the money we would save from renting out a hall, we can pay for them to do a helicopter trip there!"
Me: :facepalm:

I love my inlaws, but holy crap they have a spending problem. I'd say that their pockets all have holes in them, but I don't think the dollar bills even make it into the pocket in the first place.

[Scarletdragon]

My step-daughter just got a divorce. They sold their house and each of them bought their own house.

Step-daughter bought a fixer upper. She took her father thru the house and showed him everything it needs; he comes home and wants to help her out financially. We finally agree to give her $3000 for a house-warming gift (I know, face punch)!

She decides to buy a new AC/furnace. She is quoted $5500, she says yes, they come and install everything and it is $7500. WTF

She comes over today, for Mother's Day, and she pulls into the driveway in a brand new 2018 Toyota 4 Runner, financed for SEVEN YEARS.

Her ex-husband went on vacation and so she thinks it is only fair that she goes on vacation, so spur of the moment, she books a trip to LA, for a week, over Memorial Day.

I asked her about her finances and she said they were able to pay off all but TWO of their credit cards when they sold their house.

She has been divorced One Week. We found out most of this today.

My MMM side has gone into cardiac arrest.

[Jouer]

My step-daughter just got a divorce. They sold their house and each of them bought their own house.

Step-daughter bought a fixer upper. She took her father thru the house and showed him everything it needs; he comes home and wants to help her out financially. We finally agree to give her $3000 for a house-warming gift (I know, face punch)!

She decides to buy a new AC/furnace. She is quoted $5500, she says yes, they come and install everything and it is $7500. WTF

She comes over today, for Mother's Day, and she pulls into the driveway in a brand new 2018 Toyota 4 Runner, financed for SEVEN YEARS.

Her ex-husband went on vacation and so she thinks it is only fair that she goes on vacation, so spur of the moment, she books a trip to LA, for a week, over Memorial Day.

I asked her about her finances and she said they were able to pay off all but TWO of their credit cards when they sold their house.

She has been divorced One Week. We found out most of this today.

My MMM side has gone into cardiac arrest.

I tend to eat my feelings. Looks like your step-daughter spends hers. We both need to cut that shit out pronto.
 

[craiglepaige]

My step-daughter just got a divorce. They sold their house and each of them bought their own house.

Step-daughter bought a fixer upper. She took her father thru the house and showed him everything it needs; he comes home and wants to help her out financially. We finally agree to give her $3000 for a house-warming gift (I know, face punch)!

She decides to buy a new AC/furnace. She is quoted $5500, she says yes, they come and install everything and it is $7500. WTF

She comes over today, for Mother's Day, and she pulls into the driveway in a brand new 2018 Toyota 4 Runner, financed for SEVEN YEARS.

Her ex-husband went on vacation and so she thinks it is only fair that she goes on vacation, so spur of the moment, she books a trip to LA, for a week, over Memorial Day.

I asked her about her finances and she said they were able to pay off all but TWO of their credit cards when they sold their house.

She has been divorced One Week. We found out most of this today.

My MMM side has gone into cardiac arrest.

Wow :(

I would start cleaning/organizing a spare room for her. I would imagine she'll be moving in soon ;)

[Slee_stack]

My step-daughter just got a divorce. They sold their house and each of them bought their own house.

Step-daughter bought a fixer upper. She took her father thru the house and showed him everything it needs; he comes home and wants to help her out financially. We finally agree to give her $3000 for a house-warming gift (I know, face punch)!

She decides to buy a new AC/furnace. She is quoted $5500, she says yes, they come and install everything and it is $7500. WTF

She comes over today, for Mother's Day, and she pulls into the driveway in a brand new 2018 Toyota 4 Runner, financed for SEVEN YEARS.

Her ex-husband went on vacation and so she thinks it is only fair that she goes on vacation, so spur of the moment, she books a trip to LA, for a week, over Memorial Day.

I asked her about her finances and she said they were able to pay off all but TWO of their credit cards when they sold their house.

She has been divorced One Week. We found out most of this today.

My MMM side has gone into cardiac arrest.

Classic race to the bottom scenario. I guess she's 'winning'.

[DutchGirl]

First of all - I'm totally for renting a house in some scenarios. Like when you're young, and you may want to stay flexible because you might meet the man/woman/whatever(s) of your dreams and may want to move in together, or when you know that your education or career might take you elsewhere, sometime soon and thus you don't want to be tied to one place. Or when you just don't have the financial cushion yet that a homeowner should have to deal with emergencies...

That said, MIL and FIL have rented their house (the same house) for 50 years now and are still renting it. We bought a house last October (40% down, low mortgage interest rate) and told them about some of the hassle of having people over to fix stuff for us (yes yes, very un-Mustachean...).

MIL: I'm so glad that we're renting! It's so expensive to buy! And all the hassle!

Quick back of the envelope calculations: 50 years times 12 months times 500 euros rent (estimate, in 2018-euros, of their subsidized rent) is 300k that they have spent on their house that has a current value of probably 200k or so, and still is 0% theirs...

[ixtap]

First of all - I'm totally for renting a house in some scenarios. Like when you're young, and you may want to stay flexible because you might meet the man/woman/whatever(s) of your dreams and may want to move in together, or when you know that your education or career might take you elsewhere, sometime soon and thus you don't want to be tied to one place. Or when you just don't have the financial cushion yet that a homeowner should have to deal with emergencies...

That said, MIL and FIL have rented their house (the same house) for 50 years now and are still renting it. We bought a house last October (40% down, low mortgage interest rate) and told them about some of the hassle of having people over to fix stuff for us (yes yes, very un-Mustachean...).

MIL: I'm so glad that we're renting! It's so expensive to buy! And all the hassle!

Quick back of the envelope calculations: 50 years times 12 months times 500 euros rent (estimate, in 2018-euros, of their subsidized rent) is 300k that they have spent on their house that has a current value of probably 200k or so, and still is 0% theirs...

You don't think they would have spent $6k a year on upkeep and taxes if they had owned it?

[MgoSam]

First of all - I'm totally for renting a house in some scenarios. Like when you're young, and you may want to stay flexible because you might meet the man/woman/whatever(s) of your dreams and may want to move in together, or when you know that your education or career might take you elsewhere, sometime soon and thus you don't want to be tied to one place. Or when you just don't have the financial cushion yet that a homeowner should have to deal with emergencies...

That said, MIL and FIL have rented their house (the same house) for 50 years now and are still renting it. We bought a house last October (40% down, low mortgage interest rate) and told them about some of the hassle of having people over to fix stuff for us (yes yes, very un-Mustachean...).

MIL: I'm so glad that we're renting! It's so expensive to buy! And all the hassle!

Quick back of the envelope calculations: 50 years times 12 months times 500 euros rent (estimate, in 2018-euros, of their subsidized rent) is 300k that they have spent on their house that has a current value of probably 200k or so, and still is 0% theirs...

You don't think they would have spent $6k a year on upkeep and taxes if they had owned it?

$500 euro a month for a house is a fantastic deal. I don't know if taxes and upkeep and other things are automatically included but if it is then if I can get a similar offer here in the States I'll sell my house and rent.

[DutchGirl]

You don't think they would have spent $6k a year on upkeep and taxes if they had owned it?

Taxes on homes, community taxes and things like sewage and garbage removal are calculated & taxed differently here in the Netherlands. So for them, that comes on top of the rent, just as it comes on top of our mortgage for us. And to be fair, their taxes would be a bit lower than ours, like 20% lower or so, due to the fact that they're not the owner of the house.  Oh, by the way, that rent would also be excluding utilities.

[barbaz]

Quick back of the envelope calculations: 50 years times 12 months times 500 euros rent (estimate, in 2018-euros, of their subsidized rent) is 300k that they have spent on their house that has a current value of probably 200k or so, and still is 0% theirs...

Mortgage often costs more per month than rent. If you invest the difference (which they probably didn’t) renting can be cheaper even in the long term. Plus you have less risk and more freedom. It really depends on a lot of factors and the math is not as simple as in your calculation.

I found that for me buying would be a financial loss if it cost more than 150k€, and this doesn’t even include additional commuting cost. Good luck finding anything larger than a broom cabinet for that price.

[Imma]

Quick back of the envelope calculations: 50 years times 12 months times 500 euros rent (estimate, in 2018-euros, of their subsidized rent) is 300k that they have spent on their house that has a current value of probably 200k or so, and still is 0% theirs...

Mortgage often costs more per month than rent. If you invest the difference (which they probably didn’t) renting can be cheaper even in the long term. Plus you have less risk and more freedom. It really depends on a lot of factors and the math is not as simple as in your calculation.

I found that for me buying would be a financial loss if it cost more than 150k€, and this doesn’t even include additional commuting cost. Good luck finding anything larger than a broom cabinet for that price.

I'm living quite happily in a broom closet that's currently valued at around 150k, 130 when we bought it. Terraced home, 75m2, 60 m2 garden, 3 bedrooms, €300 mortgage, very central location in a big city in NL. We were very lucky, but these kind of gems can still be found every now and then.

If you haven't spent 20 years on a social housing waiting list it's hard to find places with a rent lower than your mortgage would be though. Studio's and one bedroom apartments in my city can easily cost €800-€1000. That's what you'd pay for a 250-300k mortgage.
We paid €800 (incl. utilities, excl. taxes) in 2011 for the top floor of a single family home and the only reason our rent didn't rise from that is because I threatened the landlord to call in the local council to check if it was safe to live in. The single best financial decision we have ever made was to move from there to our current place. We broke even within 2 years and a year from there we're €10k ahead compared to our previous home.

I recently did advise a friend to stay in her rented home: large terraced home, they've put in quite a lot of work so it's really lovely, they have a large garden, nice neighbours, one of the nicest streets in town. They pay €400 or something. Similar homes are 300k in their town. They're a single income family and if you live in social housing your rent is subsidized when your income gets lower. I don't see why they would take the risk of buying when they're in such a good place now. They're on the fence, they love their current home but their parents tell them they "should" buy. I wouldn't do it if I was her - or at the very least, save up a lot of cash and wait until the next downturn.

[barbaz]

Quick back of the envelope calculations: 50 years times 12 months times 500 euros rent (estimate, in 2018-euros, of their subsidized rent) is 300k that they have spent on their house that has a current value of probably 200k or so, and still is 0% theirs...

Mortgage often costs more per month than rent. If you invest the difference (which they probably didn’t) renting can be cheaper even in the long term. Plus you have less risk and more freedom. It really depends on a lot of factors and the math is not as simple as in your calculation.

I found that for me buying would be a financial loss if it cost more than 150k€, and this doesn’t even include additional commuting cost. Good luck finding anything larger than a broom cabinet for that price.

I'm living quite happily in a broom closet that's currently valued at around 150k, 130 when we bought it. Terraced home, 75m2, 60 m2 garden, 3 bedrooms, €300 mortgage, very central location in a big city in NL. We were very lucky, but these kind of gems can still be found every now and then.

Wow, that’s a great find. I wouldn’t call it a broom closet, though, unless you’re a family of 4 or more.

[Imma]

Quick back of the envelope calculations: 50 years times 12 months times 500 euros rent (estimate, in 2018-euros, of their subsidized rent) is 300k that they have spent on their house that has a current value of probably 200k or so, and still is 0% theirs...

Mortgage often costs more per month than rent. If you invest the difference (which they probably didn’t) renting can be cheaper even in the long term. Plus you have less risk and more freedom. It really depends on a lot of factors and the math is not as simple as in your calculation.

I found that for me buying would be a financial loss if it cost more than 150k€, and this doesn’t even include additional commuting cost. Good luck finding anything larger than a broom cabinet for that price.

I'm living quite happily in a broom closet that's currently valued at around 150k, 130 when we bought it. Terraced home, 75m2, 60 m2 garden, 3 bedrooms, €300 mortgage, very central location in a big city in NL. We were very lucky, but these kind of gems can still be found every now and then.

Wow, that’s a great find. I wouldn’t call it a broom closet, though, unless you’re a family of 4 or more.

No, it's perfect for 2 (and hopefully 3 in the future). Friends are upgrading to large Vinex type houses and think it's a bit strange that we stay here but we love it. The trick for us was to look into housing corporations selling off homes they can't afford to keep. Some people think they're all terrible, but if you keep your eyes open you might find a good deal in a nice location, even in big cities.

[Just Joe]

What is a Vinex style house?

[BDWW]

What is a Vinex style house?

Don't google it, I ended up watching a documentary on Bijlmermeer and Dutch attempts at planning  utopias... It's too easy to fall down rabbitholes on the internet.

[Just Joe]

I gave Google a cursory look but knowing how that could turn into a five hour internet session I quickly moved on.

I couldn't decide if it meant what we in my area call "zero lot line" homes or if it referred to a style (rooflines, trim style, types of windows or doors).

[Imma]

What is a Vinex style house?

Don't google it, I ended up watching a documentary on Bijlmermeer and Dutch attempts at planning  utopias... It's too easy to fall down rabbitholes on the internet.

:D

Vinex is the name of a law that allowed for large, centrally planned housing developments. They were supposed to be a cheap solution for the housing shortage, but these days those houses are quite expensive.

The houses are usually large, modern, light and cheap to heat and cool, but as they are centrally developed all the houses look the same. This is what it looks like in my city : http://www.lslarchitecten.nl/portfolio/grasrijk-meerhoven

Vinex living has become an aspiration as well as a cliche and is associated with the type of person you were never going to be when you grew up, until you did. A bit like the suburbs in the US.

[AlanStache]

...
Vinex is the name of a law that allowed for large, centrally planned housing developments. They were supposed to be a cheap solution for the housing shortage, but these days those houses are quite expensive.

The houses are usually large, modern, light and cheap to heat and cool, but as they are centrally developed all the houses look the same. This is what it looks like in my city : http://www.lslarchitecten.nl/portfolio/grasrijk-meerhoven

Vinex living has become an aspiration as well as a cliche and is associated with the type of person you were never going to be when you grew up, until you did. A bit like the suburbs in the US.

The examples I have seen south west of Schiphol looked fairly nice; if you can get past all the homes looking very similar.  But similar looking homes is SOP in the US...   Those I saw were mostly near a town center-ish shopping area where you could walk or bike to a cafe/pub/restaurant; biking and walking paths were everywhere and using them did not feel odd like it does in most of the US.

[MgoSam]

What is a Vinex style house?

When I typed in Vinex, Vanguard International Explorer Fund Investor Shares came up.

[markbike528CBX]

What is a Vinex style house?

When I typed in Vinex, Vanguard International Explorer Fund Investor Shares came up.

I spy a MPP (Mustachian People Problem).   

I love using my wife's Ipad occasionally, as the google results are essentially randomized, which can be more fun.

[Linda_Norway]

What is a Vinex style house?

Don't google it, I ended up watching a documentary on Bijlmermeer and Dutch attempts at planning  utopias... It's too easy to fall down rabbitholes on the internet.

:D

Vinex is the name of a law that allowed for large, centrally planned housing developments. They were supposed to be a cheap solution for the housing shortage, but these days those houses are quite expensive.

The houses are usually large, modern, light and cheap to heat and cool, but as they are centrally developed all the houses look the same. This is what it looks like in my city : http://www.lslarchitecten.nl/portfolio/grasrijk-meerhoven

Vinex living has become an aspiration as well as a cliche and is associated with the type of person you were never going to be when you grew up, until you did. A bit like the suburbs in the US.

Exactly what I associate it with. I also think of houses being built closely together with very small gardens. But I haven't lived in NL for a very long time, so my thoughts might be outdated.

[Just Joe]

Yes, those are like the "zero lot line" homes we have here. Very consistent in style, very small lot, tiny driveway. It is like apartment living but looks like a house. Generally close to the city core. I have heard houses up north described as row houses.

I see the appeal but with kids, critters and projects I want a yard.

[markbike528CBX]

I live a town build for the Manhatten Project and all the houses built 1943-1951 are "letter- houses", a-z so while there are relatively few styles, there is some variation.  My house style is most commonly set 45 degrees from the street.   Modifications since building has disguised many of the houses.

[SansSkill]

Happened a while back but I could not convice either my brother or my grandparents that it was not an insane decision to not get insurance.

They agreed that I had enough of a buffer to replace out of pocket whatever was insured.
They agreed that insurance companies aim for profit.
They agreed that insurance companies realize this by making you pay them more than they have to pay you based on risk assement.
They agreed that insurance companies make an equal or better risk assement than us.
They did not agree that not insuring would put me ahead long term.

"But what happens if it breaks?"
"I'll replace it"
"But what happens if it breaks again the week after?"
"I'll replace it again"
"But what happens if it breaks every week?"

Though not the exact wording, I had this actual converstation with my brother.

My grandfather agreed with not insuring while simultaneously he went off on a tangent somewhere during the conversation how we need to read all the fine print because insurance companies are ripping you off and will have you paying for years without paying out. I somehow could not convince him that was an argument in my favour.

[Imma]

Yes, those are like the "zero lot line" homes we have here. Very consistent in style, very small lot, tiny driveway. It is like apartment living but looks like a house. Generally close to the city core. I have heard houses up north described as row houses.

I see the appeal but with kids, critters and projects I want a yard.

The NL is a tiny country, so land is extremely expensive. These are large family homes by our standards.

The lots are probably around 1400 sq. ft. and most of the space is indeed taken up by the house/driveway. The yards are tiny. The lot my 1940s house is on is 1200 sq. ft, but our yard is 400-500 sq. ft. A guy I know lives in one of the streets I posted, his home cost half a million and he nearly fainted when he saw how big our yard is compared to his.

[Linda_Norway]

Happened a while back but I could not convice either my brother or my grandparents that it was not an insane decision to not get insurance.

They agreed that I had enough of a buffer to replace out of pocket whatever was insured.
They agreed that insurance companies aim for profit.
They agreed that insurance companies realize this by making you pay them more than they have to pay you based on risk assement.
They agreed that insurance companies make an equal or better risk assement than us.
They did not agree that not insuring would put me ahead long term.

"But what happens if it breaks?"
"I'll replace it"
"But what happens if it breaks again the week after?"
"I'll replace it again"
"But what happens if it breaks every week?"

Though not the exact wording, I had this actual converstation with my brother.

My grandfather agreed with not insuring while simultaneously he went off on a tangent somewhere during the conversation how we need to read all the fine print because insurance companies are ripping you off and will have you paying for years without paying out. I somehow could not convince him that was an argument in my favour.

Indeed, insurance companies or manufacturers are often trying to sell you a separate insurance for things like an phone or a TV. These things are perfectly covered by your home insurance if you have one.

We also have a car that is not insurance more than the legal insurance to pay back others. It is simply not worth it. If it is totalled, we'll just get another cheap one.