Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1550488 times)

iluvzbeach

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4300 on: January 09, 2018, 07:05:00 PM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4301 on: January 09, 2018, 08:36:46 PM »
There are two kinds of people in the entitlement class: the ones who sponge off the public systems funded by the taxpayer, and the "proud, fiercely independent" ones who are too good to lower themselves to seek or accept any form of public aid, and who therefore sponge off their families and friends. The latter type are the ones who destroy entire families. Nobody ever put their brother, sister, parent, or child in debt by applying for a public program, declaring bankruptcy, or cashing a disability check.

You've left out the third kind of person in the entitlement class:  the ones who BOTH sponge off the public systems funded by the taxpayer (sometimes fraudulently) AND sponge off their families and friends (often manipulatively and/or which heaps of abuse).  Exhibit 1 is my first brother.  Absolutely toxic.

Step37

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4302 on: January 09, 2018, 10:28:25 PM »
Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

I've never tried any meal deliveries, but have heard from other people that the portions often are so large that you get two dinners (or dinner+lunch) out of one. If that is the case here, it might be a good deal for the promotion period.

My sister gets this service and I’ve tried a few of the meals while visiting (they were tasty). Aside from the fact that it’s multiple times more expensive than buying groceries and cooking for yourself (and my sister is really not in a position to afford this luxury), the amount of packaging/waste makes me physically ill. I’ve also heard that the working conditions at the food prep places are absolutely abysmal. I would not do it no matter how good the deal was.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4303 on: January 10, 2018, 04:23:53 AM »
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

Quote
I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

Yep, rural and Catholic.  My eldest siblings were born in the early 1950s.

Even when I was turning 16 in the 1980s, my dad told me I should get married and have "an easy life", which apparently he told all my older sisters too.  And nobody listened.

I was the first in my immediate family to go to college right after HS.  But the whole family was trending that way.  A couple of older cousins were nurses (RNs and LPNs).  The male versions went into the military.  My year we all went to college (4 cousins the same age).  By the time you roll down to the youngest cousins, 6-10 years younger than me, you've got two women with PhDs - in astro-physics and micro-biology.

Our rural Catholic area seems to be changing!

I had one uncle (about your age, the youngest in the family) who didn't get married until he was in his late 30s (and promptly divorced) and is now married to a woman with several kids from several previous marriages. Other than that, everyone from that generation stuck to the script.

But in my generation things are changing. As the oldest, I was the first to go to college, but after me everyone went. None of us are married yet, I am living in sin with my fiance and no one really cares. None of us still go to church, but my grandma has grown milder now she's in her 80s and she says she's sure God knows we're good people. I fled from the village because I was tired of the social control there, but I'd love to go back to a more rural life some day.

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4304 on: January 10, 2018, 07:19:24 AM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate. 

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4305 on: January 10, 2018, 11:16:44 AM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate.

Good for you!!!!!!

ringer707

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4306 on: January 10, 2018, 02:05:38 PM »
Nothing new yet, but I'm gearing up for a weekend of wedding planning with my mom and sister.  Sister has already bitched a bit about the way we're planning things, because we're not having a big fancy venue reception or a ceremony at all, and I wasn't planning on buying a dress.  She insisted that I can't possibly get married in a dress I already have, it somehow "wouldn't be a wedding" unless I buy a traditional wedding gown.  She shut up when I offered to let her pay for it.  Based on my chat with my mom last night, it sounded like she will join the chorus on the dress, but it's possible she is intending to pay for it (she bought my sister's wedding gown, which was never worn as they didn't end up having a public ceremony), in which case I'll let her win.  We're going to be firm about the small private ceremony and restaurant reception, though!  Gotta brace myself for the arguments.

This was my mom. We did have a larger wedding because it was what I wanted, but I still did it in a city park and and kept decorations and flowers very low key. Among the many things my mom suggested we do for our wedding so we wouldn't like cheap were:

1. Have me buy a dress almost double my budget that I didn't even like as much as another dress because "it's only one day." I looked at her and said "Right. It's literally only one day."
2. Rent a limo to take us to/from the reception that was 2 miles from the hotel we were staying at. No thanks, we can drive our Hyundai to and from.
3. She was FURIOUS that we chose to have our bridal party/immediate family only rehearsal dinner at a very popular local pizza place since I didn't want my in-laws to shell out a crazy amount for a rehearsal dinner. Especially given that they designed and paid for ALL paper products (save the dates, invitations, thank you notes) since FIL is a graphic designer. It's a fun restaurant and we had a great time and enjoyed some great pizza.

I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting. Whenever she came up with something like that, I just told her to get a price quote on it to see how much it would cost HER and she usually dropped it after that.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4307 on: January 10, 2018, 02:09:48 PM »
Nothing new yet, but I'm gearing up for a weekend of wedding planning with my mom and sister.  Sister has already bitched a bit about the way we're planning things, because we're not having a big fancy venue reception or a ceremony at all, and I wasn't planning on buying a dress.  She insisted that I can't possibly get married in a dress I already have, it somehow "wouldn't be a wedding" unless I buy a traditional wedding gown.  She shut up when I offered to let her pay for it.  Based on my chat with my mom last night, it sounded like she will join the chorus on the dress, but it's possible she is intending to pay for it (she bought my sister's wedding gown, which was never worn as they didn't end up having a public ceremony), in which case I'll let her win.  We're going to be firm about the small private ceremony and restaurant reception, though!  Gotta brace myself for the arguments.

You know you don't have to plan it with them, right? Go ahead if it's important to you, but you can just say 'thanks, but no thanks, we can plan our wedding without your help'.

Panly

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4308 on: January 10, 2018, 02:31:14 PM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August. 
All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because ...

al least one of your (ex-) relatives "got it" ...


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4309 on: January 10, 2018, 03:05:48 PM »
Nothing new yet, but I'm gearing up for a weekend of wedding planning with my mom and sister.  Sister has already bitched a bit about the way we're planning things, because we're not having a big fancy venue reception or a ceremony at all, and I wasn't planning on buying a dress.  She insisted that I can't possibly get married in a dress I already have, it somehow "wouldn't be a wedding" unless I buy a traditional wedding gown.  She shut up when I offered to let her pay for it.  Based on my chat with my mom last night, it sounded like she will join the chorus on the dress, but it's possible she is intending to pay for it (she bought my sister's wedding gown, which was never worn as they didn't end up having a public ceremony), in which case I'll let her win.  We're going to be firm about the small private ceremony and restaurant reception, though!  Gotta brace myself for the arguments.

You know you don't have to plan it with them, right? Go ahead if it's important to you, but you can just say 'thanks, but no thanks, we can plan our wedding without your help'.
^^^ This.  The simple response is "you got to plan your own wedding the way you wanted.  Please let me plan mine."

Rowellen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4310 on: January 10, 2018, 05:43:53 PM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate.

Awesome. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall to see her face during that phone call.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4311 on: January 11, 2018, 07:06:24 AM »
^^^ This.  The simple response is "you got to plan your own wedding the way you wanted.  Please let me plan mine."

This can easily backfire, as many women who are now mothers of people who are getting married had their weddings planned by their mothers. If Raenia's grandmother planned her mother's wedding, the mother may have the expectation of more involvement on that basis.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4312 on: January 11, 2018, 09:47:09 AM »
^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate.

Awesome. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall to see her face during that phone call.

I'll bet the air crackled with electricity around the phones during that call. GOOD FOR YOU.

CU Tiger

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4313 on: January 11, 2018, 09:57:15 AM »
All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

Yup, that's pretty much how DH and I feel.  He's fine so long as I buy his beer, and feed him (PS he's too lazy to even microwave leftovers, and NO I don't do this for him) and harp on him about his bills. But heaven forbid his ex states she wants something...he'll bend over backwards for that one since he's a "man of his word".  Minus the rent he's supposed to pay us and doesn't.

The next time he gives you that “I’m a man of my word” bullshit, there is a calm (and maybe effective?) way to handle that, rather than unloading on him the way I am sure you would like to.

Some backstory. My mother, a devout Christian, had a contractor who was doing some work on her house. This guy was also a very pious Christian, and he and my Mom would have some great discussions about faith, etc. The contractor was a friendly guy and Mom liked him, except for one thing…he was unreliable. He’d tell her he’d be over at X o’clock on Tuesday…and on Tuesday he’d be a no-show. Or he would come hours late, and then decide he didn’t have enough time to get anything done, so he’d leave, telling her he’d be back some other time. You know how annoying it is when they tell you they’ll be there between 11-1 and you rearrange plans to be there and they show up at 4:15…it was getting on Mom’s nerves.

One day, in the middle of a chat, he repeated something he’d said to her before, which was something like, “I think of my work as part of my witness (Evangelical Christian for “how I share with everyone that Jesus is my Savior”). He probably meant the QUALITY of his work, but this gave Mom an opportunity. She told him that when he did not keep his word by showing up WHEN HE SAID HE WOULD, and not calling and letting her know if he was running late…he was providing a piss-poor witness. He was treating his customers rudely and not being a stand-up guy. Okay, I’m sure Mom did not use exactly those words, but she got the point across. Knowing Mom, she also said that she liked him and liked the quality of the work he did (because my Mom is Southern nice) but that this one thing was damaging his idea of his work = his witness.

She said he was at first sort of shocked – because Mom is a soft-spoken, nice-Grandma type woman, and here she was schooling him on something he felt proud of, but then he said he had not considered it in that way before. And here is where the miracle occurred (cue the heavenly harps and the light shining from above) he actually improved on being there when he said he would, or at least being punctilious about calling her and letting her know when arrival times/dates had changed.

Would something like that work on your FIL? The next time he starts on being a man of his word and doing the RIGHT THING, could you reasonably observe that a man of his word would treat the members of his family (his children) with respect and would consider if bankruptcy would make their lives better. Using some of The Grim Squeaker’s arguments about how services/bankruptcy are set up to spread out the financial consequences of his bad situation, rather than dumping it all in your lap, might help.

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4314 on: January 12, 2018, 09:40:40 AM »

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

Yea, I'm going to go with the above.  He's not an idiot, he's a narcissist though that thinks what he knows/believes is correct and everyone else is wrong.  And the he believes the situation he is in is EVERYONE elses fault, not his own.  His big scapegoat for years was Obama and the government screwing with his job prospects.  He fails to see his 1. lack of punctuality 2. inability to listen to his bosses and 3. lack of ability to meet deadlines has cost him every job he's ever had.  Instead he threw money into get rich quick schemes that usually ended up with HUGE  losses (I mean I've seen his tax returns and some folks here could retire just off what he lost over the years).  Top that with a housewife of Orange County and poof he earned roughly 6-7.5 million (he generally averaged 300k/year some higher some lower) in 25 years and have almost nothing left to show for it.

He still doesn't see it as any fault of his own though and I'm not sure how to get it through his head.  I've been blunt but apparently that's not working.

Pioneerw2b

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4315 on: January 12, 2018, 10:31:05 AM »
Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)


I heard a commercial the other day about this.... when I heard the "$10.00 a person" I yelled at the radio, "WHAT ??"  I had 4 children and I am pretty certain I managed to get dinner on the table for less than $10.00 total for 6 people. What am I missing ? Do people really lack meal planning skills ? They are plastered all over Pinterest. Do they lack time to shop for groceries ? What are these busy people's lives so full of that they cannot carve out time to go to the grocery store ? I am not being rhetorical...I really would like to know.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4316 on: January 12, 2018, 10:31:24 AM »

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!
Yea, I'm going to go with the above.  He's not an idiot, he's a narcissist though that thinks what he knows/believes is correct and everyone else is wrong.  And the he believes the situation he is in is EVERYONE elses fault, not his own.  His big scapegoat for years was Obama and the government screwing with his job prospects.  He fails to see his 1. lack of punctuality 2. inability to listen to his bosses and 3. lack of ability to meet deadlines has cost him every job he's ever had.  Instead he threw money into get rich quick schemes that usually ended up with HUGE  losses (I mean I've seen his tax returns and some folks here could retire just off what he lost over the years).  Top that with a housewife of Orange County and poof he earned roughly 6-7.5 million (he generally averaged 300k/year some higher some lower) in 25 years and have almost nothing left to show for it.

He still doesn't see it as any fault of his own though and I'm not sure how to get it through his head.  I've been blunt but apparently that's not working.

Try setting him up with Madame Bovary, if only for the lulz.

Pioneerw2b

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4317 on: January 12, 2018, 10:34:41 AM »
My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!



I laughed out loud at your answer :)

I wish there was a way to react to posts like you can on the "Friendface" type pages

MudDuck

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4318 on: January 12, 2018, 11:36:22 AM »

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

Yea, I'm going to go with the above.  He's not an idiot, he's a narcissist though that thinks what he knows/believes is correct and everyone else is wrong.  And the he believes the situation he is in is EVERYONE elses fault, not his own.  His big scapegoat for years was Obama and the government screwing with his job prospects.  He fails to see his 1. lack of punctuality 2. inability to listen to his bosses and 3. lack of ability to meet deadlines has cost him every job he's ever had.  Instead he threw money into get rich quick schemes that usually ended up with HUGE  losses (I mean I've seen his tax returns and some folks here could retire just off what he lost over the years).  Top that with a housewife of Orange County and poof he earned roughly 6-7.5 million (he generally averaged 300k/year some higher some lower) in 25 years and have almost nothing left to show for it.

He still doesn't see it as any fault of his own though and I'm not sure how to get it through his head.  I've been blunt but apparently that's not working.

He should run for president.

MishMash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4319 on: January 12, 2018, 12:14:57 PM »

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!
Yea, I'm going to go with the above.  He's not an idiot, he's a narcissist though that thinks what he knows/believes is correct and everyone else is wrong.  And the he believes the situation he is in is EVERYONE elses fault, not his own.  His big scapegoat for years was Obama and the government screwing with his job prospects.  He fails to see his 1. lack of punctuality 2. inability to listen to his bosses and 3. lack of ability to meet deadlines has cost him every job he's ever had.  Instead he threw money into get rich quick schemes that usually ended up with HUGE  losses (I mean I've seen his tax returns and some folks here could retire just off what he lost over the years).  Top that with a housewife of Orange County and poof he earned roughly 6-7.5 million (he generally averaged 300k/year some higher some lower) in 25 years and have almost nothing left to show for it.

He still doesn't see it as any fault of his own though and I'm not sure how to get it through his head.  I've been blunt but apparently that's not working.

Try setting him up with Madame Bovary, if only for the lulz.

LOL, I actually haven't heard boo from Madame Bovary in like 8 months, since she got kicked out of her apartment.  She popped back up briefly a few weeks ago with a quick wo is me but that's been it for months...I was wondering what happened to her.

PMG

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4320 on: January 12, 2018, 12:41:13 PM »
Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)


I heard a commercial the other day about this.... when I heard the "$10.00 a person" I yelled at the radio, "WHAT ??"  I had 4 children and I am pretty certain I managed to get dinner on the table for less than $10.00 total for 6 people. What am I missing ? Do people really lack meal planning skills ? They are plastered all over Pinterest. Do they lack time to shop for groceries ? What are these busy people's lives so full of that they cannot carve out time to go to the grocery store ? I am not being rhetorical...I really would like to know.

My brother and his wife have been getting these meal kits for about a year, using them as a tool to establish better habits.  They are DINK, LCOL, work long hours.  They ate out constantly for years, especially when they had an hour commute, 15 minutes now.  I was always shocked when I visited them.  Brother says when they did have time to grocery shop they were overly ambitious and wasted a lot of food. 

They get 4 meal kits a week (and have dinner with an elderly family member the 5th night).  They always know there’s something at home for dinner.  Quick, simple directions. SIL never learned to cook, now makes yummy pretty meals.  Cheaper than eating out.  They are trying new vegetables, new flavors.  They say the portion sizes are usually right on, but no leftovers, no food waste (though lots of packaging waste, I think they can return parts of the packaging). 

They have both lost some weight since starting the meal kits.  Brother quit his soda habit, helped by only having to make the decision when shopping, not every evening when ordering dinner.  He says the meal kits aren’t exciting anymore like they were initially, but still worth it for them.  I think they had initially planned to wean themselves off the service a bit faster, but have spent much of the past year caring for ill family members so staying with the service has really helped them.

Still... it’s so expensive!  I couldn’t justify it personally, but I can’t condemn the way my brother is using it. 

(Of course there are actually 7 days a week and they still do a lot of eating out... but it’s been a good step for them.)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 01:10:57 PM by PMG »

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4321 on: January 13, 2018, 10:20:12 AM »
For people like your brother and SIL meal delivery services are a massive improvement. It's just like electric bikes: they are a terrible choice if you're healthy and fit and ride a regular bike frequently, but if you're driving everywhere and not getting any exercise, an electric bike is a massive improvement.

BookLoverL

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4322 on: January 13, 2018, 11:40:17 AM »
Pretty minor one from me: My parents are absolutely not the worst spenders, but they still have obvious inefficiencies to my eyes. Anyway, I made a comment about how much my mum uses the tumble drier - which is too much, when we have an indoor drying rack (which apparently "takes up too much space" even though it's out all the time whether we're using it or not?!) and an outdoor washing line  (which we can use in the warmer half of the year) - and how it might save money on the electricity bill if we cut back. And she said, "Never mind saving, what about earning more?"

Also, I calculated that my dad drinks £1000 a year of beer and/or wine, at least. Yes, I know he enjoys it. But that's not that far off a particularly frugal budget for all other food for one person for a year.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4323 on: January 13, 2018, 11:50:47 AM »
Pretty minor one from me: My parents are absolutely not the worst spenders, but they still have obvious inefficiencies to my eyes. Anyway, I made a comment about how much my mum uses the tumble drier - which is too much, when we have an indoor drying rack (which apparently "takes up too much space" even though it's out all the time whether we're using it or not?!) and an outdoor washing line  (which we can use in the warmer half of the year) - and how it might save money on the electricity bill if we cut back. And she said, "Never mind saving, what about earning more?"

Also, I calculated that my dad drinks £1000 a year of beer and/or wine, at least. Yes, I know he enjoys it. But that's not that far off a particularly frugal budget for all other food for one person for a year.

Is there a reason your parents should cut back?

BookLoverL

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4324 on: January 13, 2018, 12:12:09 PM »
Well, they're not terrible, but they're not FIRE either. And my brother and I both live with them, so even though we have separate bank accounts, in a way their finances are my concern.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4325 on: January 13, 2018, 12:17:28 PM »
Well, they're not terrible, but they're not FIRE either. And my brother and I both live with them, so even though we have separate bank accounts, in a way their finances are my concern.

Honestly, if my adult kid (I'm assuming you are) living in my home, under my roof, had the audacity to say that to my face, the hotel of mum and dad would be closing its doors pretty soon.

So I hope you're only saying that on here, and not irl.

crispy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4326 on: January 13, 2018, 12:51:02 PM »
Well, they're not terrible, but they're not FIRE either. And my brother and I both live with them, so even though we have separate bank accounts, in a way their finances are my concern.

Honestly, if my adult kid (I'm assuming you are) living in my home, under my roof, had the audacity to say that to my face, the hotel of mum and dad would be closing its doors pretty soon.

So I hope you're only saying that on here, and not irl.

I'm with Imma here. The items you mention don't seem to be a big deal at all. I also refuse to use a drying rack to save a few dollars a year. I hope you and your brother pay rent and dfo your own laundry. If not, that would be a much bigger help to your parents.

BookLoverL

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4327 on: January 13, 2018, 04:09:09 PM »
Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 04:18:38 PM by BookLoverL »

crispy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4328 on: January 13, 2018, 05:42:34 PM »
Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

No, it isn't bad to be concerned. My in-laws financial decisions are a frequent source of concern for us. It just seems the things you were concerned about are fairly minor (using a drying rack doesn't really save a ton of money in the grand scheme of things). When it comes down to it though, my in-laws are adults and their choices and the consequences belongs to them, not me (that sounds heartless, but they have wasted at least 300k in windfalls and refuse any budgeting help so we just let them deal with their own stuff).

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4329 on: January 14, 2018, 12:43:20 AM »
It's just like electric bikes: they are a terrible choice if you're healthy and fit and ride a regular bike frequently, but if you're driving everywhere and not getting any exercise, an electric bike is a massive improvement.

Yeah,  I am going to call BS on that one.    My guess is that you have not owned an electric bike or you live where it is flat.  Most cyclists I knew looked down on them at the time (circa 2002/2003 here).

Once upon a time, I was a cyclist part time (to work), and when I got an electric kit, my frequency and distance traveled tripled... versus taking DH's car or the bus.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 12:46:49 AM by Goldielocks »

Rowellen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4330 on: January 14, 2018, 12:54:54 AM »
Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

No, it isn't bad to be concerned. My in-laws financial decisions are a frequent source of concern for us. It just seems the things you were concerned about are fairly minor (using a drying rack doesn't really save a ton of money in the grand scheme of things). When it comes down to it though, my in-laws are adults and their choices and the consequences belongs to them, not me (that sounds heartless, but they have wasted at least 300k in windfalls and refuse any budgeting help so we just let them deal with their own stuff).

I beg to differ on the dryer issue. My former boss had his electricity bill go up about $200 in a qtr maybe more. I can't remember the exact numbers. He discovered his wife had started using the dryer for every load of washing. Nothing else had changed.

crispy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4331 on: January 14, 2018, 03:42:41 AM »
Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

No, it isn't bad to be concerned. My in-laws financial decisions are a frequent source of concern for us. It just seems the things you were concerned about are fairly minor (using a drying rack doesn't really save a ton of money in the grand scheme of things). When it comes down to it though, my in-laws are adults and their choices and the consequences belongs to them, not me (that sounds heartless, but they have wasted at least 300k in windfalls and refuse any budgeting help so we just let them deal with their own stuff).

I beg to differ on the dryer issue. My former boss had his electricity bill go up about $200 in a qtr maybe more. I can't remember the exact numbers. He discovered his wife had started using the dryer for every load of washing. Nothing else had changed.

Your must have very expensive electricity. For me, the electric cost is less than $100 per year (using an online equation) so I will happily pay $8 per month for convenience.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4332 on: January 14, 2018, 05:40:17 AM »
Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

I'm sure your intentions are good, but if your mum doesn't appreciate it, I can imagine it will only result in her being annoyed. I'm not that much older than you, but we used to rent out a room to a guy who would give me all kinds of unwanted advice about very small things. He was right sometimes, but it still annoyed me to no end, because in my head I thought "if you know so well how to run a household, GO RUN YOUR OWN HOUSEHOLD for gods sake".

There's nothing wrong with being concerned about your family's financial situation, but there's a difference between concern and meddling. Giving people advice when they're not interested in my experience just doesn't work. It's understandable though, if you see opportunities for improvement or your family is financially in trouble (I hope they're not) but I don't think you're in a position to hand out unwanted advice unless they're asking for your help.

If you want to help them save money, maybe you could offer to do things for them like find out the cheapest mobile phone / TV / electricity / internet provider or compare insurance policies. Or you could offer to do the grocery shopping + meal prep and planning and get the grocery budget down. You could do the laundry and do it your way and see if you can bring the electricity bill or the use of detergent down (most people can save massively on laundry detergent). I think most people are open to saving money, but they don't want the hassle or disrupt their routines, especially if they're already extremely busy working and running a household.

Roadrunner53

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Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4333 on: January 14, 2018, 06:09:52 AM »
Years ago I knew these people that were always in debt. The wife didn't work but the husband had a good paying job but they always squandered every penny they had. So one episode was somehow the couple got a visit from a freezer plan outfit. The deal was they would bring a freezer (upright) to the home and then you would pick from a list of foods what you expected to eat in a month. Somehow the cost of the freezer was rolled into the cost of the frozen items. So this couple picks out so many steaks, roasts, chickens, pork chops. I have no idea if veggies were included but anyway they filled up the freezer. The next thing you know they thought they were living the life and were eating steaks for breakfast! They gobbled up all the food in just a few weeks, still owed the freezer company for the first fill up plus the freezer! I am not sure what happened after that but if they filled up the freezer a few times that was it. They probably didn't pay the bill when it came in either. As they were gobbling steaks for breakfast they were laughing their heads off!

marion10

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4334 on: January 14, 2018, 02:01:26 PM »
If you are going the laundry - then you can dry it however you like.

wordnerd

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4335 on: January 14, 2018, 03:08:20 PM »
I previously posted about my parents who bought a boat and then often used it solely as a waterside cocktail bar. Well, they bought it in August and have already upgraded to a larger boat. They originally justified this as "when we sell the smaller boat, it will only $XK more to buy the bigger boat." Then, "well, the new boat has some issues but we're getting $1K off the price." Now, it's "when we sell the smaller boat, it will cover the vast majority of projected repairs to the larger boat." Apparently, "vast majority" means that their asking price for the smaller boat is less than 70% of the projected repairs to the bigger boat. Finally, my dad doubts his ability to get the larger boat out of the slip without damaging it...

Le sigh.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4336 on: January 15, 2018, 04:45:37 AM »
If you are going the laundry - then you can dry it however you like.

Last summer I was drying my laundry on the line outside. And twice I was bitten by a tic. Once I woke up in the morning with a tic hanging in the back on my leg. Another time I was at work in the afternoon and noticed a tic hanging on the inside of my elbow. My colleague suggested that it might be due to line drying outside. The strange thing is that I have been line drying from the balcony for 15 years in our previous house, where I never had issues with tics. In this new house I also line dry on the balcony and had tics twice. According to my colleagues I need to shake the laundry really well when taking inside. I will focus on that the next summer. In the winter I use the tumble dry. I could also use the foldable drying rack and maybe I should focus on using that more often. With the current washing machine with a large capacity the rack if easily overfull.

Uturn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4337 on: January 15, 2018, 07:14:38 AM »
I was having dinner with Mom yesterday, and she mentioned that I should get a dog. 

Me: (chuckle) No, I plan on retiring in 3-5 years and want to be nomadic and a dog does not fit those plans.
Mom: What!?  But you're not even in your 50's yet, how can you retire?
Me:  Remember all those years that you called me a cheapskate because I don't have new cars and fancy gadgets?  I was buying a portfolio instead.
Mom:  I don't understand why you denied yourself a nice life just so that you can sit around the house so early in life.

Rubic

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4338 on: January 15, 2018, 07:22:21 AM »
ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

Flip the script and imagine it's your mum nagging you because you're
not married, or don't have children, or don't live in a nice house.  Nobody
wants unsolicited advice, especially not a parent.

Both my parents were chain smokers for 20+ years, and me pointing out
the health hazards wouldn't have made any difference, and would probably
have harmed our relationship.  Fortunately they both quit soon after my
grandfather (a physician!) died of lung cancer in his early 60's.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4339 on: January 15, 2018, 07:40:04 AM »
I was having dinner with Mom yesterday, and she mentioned that I should get a dog. 

Me: (chuckle) No, I plan on retiring in 3-5 years and want to be nomadic and a dog does not fit those plans.
Mom: What!?  But you're not even in your 50's yet, how can you retire?
Me:  Remember all those years that you called me a cheapskate because I don't have new cars and fancy gadgets?  I was buying a portfolio instead.
Mom:  I don't understand why you denied yourself a nice life just so that you can sit around the house so early in life.
Did she somehow misunderstand the word "nomadic"?

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4340 on: January 15, 2018, 07:45:58 AM »
I was having dinner with Mom yesterday, and she mentioned that I should get a dog. 

Me: (chuckle) No, I plan on retiring in 3-5 years and want to be nomadic and a dog does not fit those plans.
Mom: What!?  But you're not even in your 50's yet, how can you retire?
Me:  Remember all those years that you called me a cheapskate because I don't have new cars and fancy gadgets?  I was buying a portfolio instead.
Mom:  I don't understand why you denied yourself a nice life just so that you can sit around the house so early in life.

Isn't it maddening that people just won't listen?  Or can't connect the dots because of pre-conceived notions in their heads?

I mean, you just said you're going to be nomadic, which is about as far from "just sit around the house" as you can get!


MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4341 on: January 15, 2018, 10:00:16 AM »
I was having dinner with Mom yesterday, and she mentioned that I should get a dog. 

Me: (chuckle) No, I plan on retiring in 3-5 years and want to be nomadic and a dog does not fit those plans.
Mom: What!?  But you're not even in your 50's yet, how can you retire?
Me:  Remember all those years that you called me a cheapskate because I don't have new cars and fancy gadgets?  I was buying a portfolio instead.
Mom:  I don't understand why you denied yourself a nice life just so that you can sit around the house so early in life.

Isn't it maddening that people just won't listen?  Or can't connect the dots because of pre-conceived notions in their heads?

I mean, you just said you're going to be nomadic, which is about as far from "just sit around the house" as you can get!

Well that is the impression most people have of retired people. This is largely due to having known people that are retired and do just sit around the house. This is a concern I have about my dad as he's toying with retiring but doesn't have a life. I fear he'll just sleep and watch TV all day.

Uturn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4342 on: January 15, 2018, 11:59:44 AM »
I was having dinner with Mom yesterday, and she mentioned that I should get a dog. 

Me: (chuckle) No, I plan on retiring in 3-5 years and want to be nomadic and a dog does not fit those plans.
Mom: What!?  But you're not even in your 50's yet, how can you retire?
Me:  Remember all those years that you called me a cheapskate because I don't have new cars and fancy gadgets?  I was buying a portfolio instead.
Mom:  I don't understand why you denied yourself a nice life just so that you can sit around the house so early in life.

Isn't it maddening that people just won't listen?  Or can't connect the dots because of pre-conceived notions in their heads?

I mean, you just said you're going to be nomadic, which is about as far from "just sit around the house" as you can get!

Well that is the impression most people have of retired people. This is largely due to having known people that are retired and do just sit around the house. This is a concern I have about my dad as he's toying with retiring but doesn't have a life. I fear he'll just sleep and watch TV all day.

When Dad retired, he took various jobs, mostly to keep busy.  He drove a schoolbus for a while, delivered parts for a local car dealer, did tractor work.  He stayed busy until Leukemia took him.  Mom retired and found a recliner and Fox News.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4343 on: January 15, 2018, 12:54:28 PM »
When Dad retired, he took various jobs, mostly to keep busy.  He drove a schoolbus for a while, delivered parts for a local car dealer, did tractor work.  He stayed busy until Leukemia took him.  Mom retired and found a recliner and Fox News.

This sounds like my grandfather.

He sold his business and "retired" then drove school buses for a few years, delivered cars for a local dealership, visited his brothers to lend a hand every time they were harvesting or shearing, then got sick of watching his business decline so he bought it back and worked another 10 years.

He's now 86 and on his second go at retirement, spending lots of time on the water in his boat and having dinner with one of his children or grandchildren every night. He will never be one to just sit home.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4344 on: January 15, 2018, 01:05:37 PM »
ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

Flip the script and imagine it's your mum nagging you because you're
not married, or don't have children, or don't live in a nice house.  Nobody
wants unsolicited advice, especially not a parent.

Both my parents were chain smokers for 20+ years, and me pointing out
the health hazards wouldn't have made any difference, and would probably
have harmed our relationship.  Fortunately they both quit soon after my
grandfather (a physician!) died of lung cancer in his early 60's.

I agree - nothing worse than unsolicited advice from a relative.  It would be different if your mum told you that they were about the lose the house and asked for your advice re saving money.  But it doesn't sound like she is doing that.  Also, even though you and your brother are paying board, having your adult children still living with you must be grating at times.  The way I see it, once you strike out on your own and run your own household then you can do it any way you like.  Until then, you've chosen to live in your parents' household and they can run things their way.

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4345 on: January 15, 2018, 07:52:14 PM »
I beg to differ on the dryer issue. My former boss had his electricity bill go up about $200 in a qtr maybe more. I can't remember the exact numbers. He discovered his wife had started using the dryer for every load of washing. Nothing else had changed.

Erm, is their vent totally clogged with lint? Does the wife just set the dryer for max time/temp and walk away?

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4346 on: January 16, 2018, 06:46:09 AM »
My mum is an intelligent woman and works as a Certified Financial Planner. 3 years ago, my fiance and I bought a cheap house that was in need of some TLC, which is why it was cheap. We've done quite a lot of work already and right now, we are almost done with the upstairs bathroom. Tomorrow the plumber will arrive to connect the new toilet (we didn't have one upstairs) and then it's done. I was excited about that and told my mum on the phone. Then she asked me what we still need to do, as she lives in a different city and doesn't visit a lot. We only have the kitchen and the (small) garden left, so we're nearly done.

Then she proceeded to tell me how it would be much better if we sold the home and bought another home that was already done up by someone else, so we didn't have to do "all that work". Well, first of all, we're nearly done. There's only about €10.000 of work left to do and in the short term, they're not necessary but cosmetic repairs. Secondly, we're in the middle of a huge housing boom, so it's generally a bad time to sell a cheap house and buy an expensive house. With her professional background, this is the most stupid advice she could possibly give. Thirdly, buying a comparable home completely fixed up by someone else could all in all cost us around €100.000 - house prices are at an all-time high and there are high additional costs to buying a house. And I didn't even include higher property taxes etc. Even when we would "just get a mortgage" that's a pretty huge waste of money for a house in the same neighbourhood with a more shiny kitchen, a fashionable floor and matching curtains throughout the house.

I told her this, and I don't want to get into an argument, but it really annoys me that someone with her education and professional background would dish out such stupid advice in their private life. I know she's good at her job and she would never recommend this to a client. She just keeps nagging about this because she just wants us to live in a different type of house and be different people. She feels like since we've doubled our income since we've bought this house, we should find a house that reflects our current level of wealth. She feels our house is a bit small at 800 square ft (3 bedrooms for 2 people, feels more than big enough for me) and I guess because she hopes she'll get grandchildren after all if we just have more bedrooms. She is very much aware that having children is not medically an option for us right now, but she brings it up all the time. She doesn't visit often, but when she does, she's always trying to get us out of the house to go shopping or to go to restaurants. She never does that when we visit her. It's like she hates being in this house at all, and it's not just me who thinks that. She sat next to my friend at my birthday and my friend later vented to my fiance about how much of a snob she thought my mum was ... (my friend is very polite and would never tell me, but my fiance told me).

I have tried to talk to her about this, but it's difficult because she just denies it. I try to ignore it when she says things like this, but it makes my blood boil. I just don't really get it because I wasn't raised like that and my mum has always lead a pretty simple life herself. She did move to another city when we were adults and she's in a different social circle now, full of people much wealthier than she is. Maybe they're a bit of a bad influence.

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4347 on: January 16, 2018, 07:24:42 AM »
@Imma How did your mother get the spending mentality of Americans? I thought Europe was much more financially conservative.

My wife is a CPA, qualified to practice in both the UK and USA. She says that co-workers in London were much more financially astute about investing their own money and looking for ways to reduce taxable income via various investments. However, it's a different story in the US, where many of her fellow CPAs love spending every dollar on their large houses, new cars, constant drinking and parties. We're talking 25-50 year olds, some even older. Many don't even put more than the minimum few percent in the 401(K) or IRA. There's only a couple of savvy ones, who are modest in their ways.

I have a friend who works at TD Ameritrade supporting individual investor accounts, customer-facing role. But she spends every penny partying, living like there's no tomorrow.

Just because they are financial professionals doesn't mean they know how to save and invest for themselves.

kaypinkHH

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4348 on: January 16, 2018, 07:46:25 AM »
@Imma I am in a very similar boat to you! We sold a house in a HCOL area, and could "afford" a much nicer house in the lower COL city we moved to. We decided to buy an older home with a rental unit attached, or a house that has renos to be done. My parents did not love this plan. During the house hunt process they kept sending us recommendations for completely "finished" homes, but either at the top of our budget, or in neighbourhoods we weren't interested in. Finally we did end up buying a house with a rental unit, and I can tell they are still not impressed with that decision. They justified their opinions as  "well it isn't what we would be looking for now"...maybe your mom has an issue with your house because she can't imagine living there...which is foolish, because she doesn't have to live there! Next time she brings up your house just calmly say, "Mom, we love our house, we aren't moving. We are super happy with our renos!"

Sometimes parents forget to look back to where they were at this age (give or take a few years). My mom and dad used a card table as a kitchen table for 5 years when I was a kid, but yet, for some reason I "MUST BUY" a fancy dining room table immediately.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4349 on: January 16, 2018, 08:25:02 AM »
@Imma How did your mother get the spending mentality of Americans? I thought Europe was much more financially conservative.
[...] There's only a couple of savvy ones, who are modest in their ways.

Just because they are financial professionals doesn't mean they know how to save and invest for themselves.

I really don't know where she got that spending mentality. It's a new thing. My mum grew up in a very working class environment, she worked her way up, she taught us to budget and save money. Growing up she was super frugal, sewing all of our clothes and baking our bread. My parents had a very bad divorce when I was in in my early 20s and she ended up with practically nothing in a small one bedroom flat and her youngest kid still living at home with her. She was living so extremely frugal back then I actually gave her my old coat because she refused to buy a new one even though the zipper was broken and she was waiting in the cold for the bus to work every day. She saved up a lot of money to buy a nice house in a new city to start a new life there about 5 years ago. After that, she's changed so much I sometimes wonder who she is. Her new friends generally come from money and at around 60, most have received their full inheritances and have a lot of money. My mum isn't wealthy, but she's taken good care of herself in the past. She's close to 60, I know if she quit working today she has enough to live on until her pension and social security kicks in at 66.

She's still not spending a huge amount of money on herself compared to some people in this thread - she spends a lot on food and wine and eating in fancy restaurants and expensive clothes but not more than she can afford - but she's really pressuring us to spend money and judging others by how much money they spend. Because of her job, we're used to talking openly about money and she knows I save up for retirement, which she considers to be unneccessary 'at my stage in life'. I'm really happy that she goes on holiday every year, but I wish she would just shut up about my spending.

@kaypinkHH  When my parents were around 30 we lived in nearly exactly the same type of house in the same type of neighbourhood. Maybe she doesn't want to remember?