Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1162607 times)

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4200 on: December 22, 2017, 09:02:23 AM »

I did not read merula's comment as a judgement on SAHMs. I read it as a judgement on people with too much time on their hands. The poster clearly stated that people who live full lives (which there's no question that SAHMs live full lives) understand that they need not to judge as harshly as someone who has nothing to do.

That's what I read.

No, she was responding to a post about SAHMs. Clearly believing these people don't have active, full lives.

I have read a few posts by you lately that are very, very defensive. Yes, some people in life and on this forum can be judgemental jerks. But saying "people who have too much time on their hands" in the same post as mentioning a SAHP is really really not the same as saying "all SAHP have too much time on their hands". I often click "reply" and only mean to reply to one bit of a post but don't edit out the extraneous stuff because I'm lazy or it's a long post and I can't do it consistently on my phone.

Most people on this forum are not horrible, judgemental people. Most people on this forum are full of praise and admiration for people who do unpaid work! (Be it parenting or volunteering or whatever) - and are trying to get there themselves! FIRE for many, if not most, people here means a life exactly as you describe, of unpaid work for themselves, their family and their wider community. Few people here would assume that no paid work means no life or no contribution to society. That's half the point of MMM!

I would counsel you to consider re-reading posts before replying and responding to the kindest, best-case scenario of what someone has actually said rather than jumping immediately to the conclusion that they are out to criticise you and everything you stand for. Sometimes individuals are judgemental jerks, but that's what the "Report to moderator" button is for. I have also taken a break from the forum in the past myself when I was getting way too angry at perceived slights by Internet strangers. It helped me regain some perspective.

ms

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4201 on: December 22, 2017, 09:08:26 AM »

..

Most people on this forum are not horrible, judgemental people. Most people on this forum are full of praise and admiration for people who do unpaid work! (Be it parenting or volunteering or whatever) - and are trying to get there themselves! FIRE for many, if not most, people here means a life exactly as you describe, of unpaid work for themselves, their family and their wider community. Few people here would assume that no paid work means no life or no contribution to society. That's half the point of MMM!

..


Fully in agreement here. Thanks for posting this!

kaypinkHH

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4202 on: December 22, 2017, 09:35:28 AM »
+1 to @shelivesthedream

Responding to Chesleygirl's last post:
It seems ironic that you seem to be judging us for judging/complaining about other people, on a forum thread designed to be a place to share judgment.

The literal description of the Anti-Mustachian wall of shame:
"Sometimes the world just needs to be mocked. What have you seen in real life, in the mainstream media, or on other blogs, that is just so Antimustachian that you need to share it with us, your friends on the Inside?"

Most of us are fully aware we are judging others when we post here!

However, If we look back to the original post that brought this all on, @TheGrimSqueaker was saying he has a nasty relative who judges his lifestyle, where due to her own personal circumstance cannot appreciate why TGS and fam choose to live that way. (TGS I think I summarized this sufficiently, but I don't want to put words in your mouth).

Going into someone's home as a guest and then complaining that they "need to renovate" or critique their life style is a significantly different level of judgement than posting fairly anonymously on a internet forum about silly coworkers who buy starbucks, or what people spend on a new house.

And no one was attacking SAHMs... they were criticizing men and women of leisure, who also happen to be jerkfaces.

@Chesleygirl, are you dealing with people IRL who are really rude to you about being a SAHM?  I feel like you are taking something out on internet forum peeps, that is rooted from somewhere else. I could be way wrong but that is what I am wondering is happening.

...if I'm correct though I can recommend a great place to rant about it for support...antimustachian wall of shame. :D.
 Those real life jerks don't get that you are financially responsible enough to be able to have a lifestyle that works for your family...there is a whole internet forum full of people who can related to dealing with relatives/friends who just "don't get it"!

Seriously, use this forum to rant about those real life jerks, not to think that every post is a direct attack against you/your life/your choices!

Chesleygirl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4203 on: December 22, 2017, 10:55:04 AM »
It's interesting how SAHMs are called "busybodies". but most of the working people here seem to know very detailed information about their friend's and relative's financial affairs. That's the true definition of a busybody. When you know how much debt someone has, what's in their bank account, and even how many times they buy coffee every week. Perhaps some people here just need to get a life? Mind your own financial affairs and don't worry so much about how someone else manages theirs. Unless they ask you for money, it really doesn't affect you at all.

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4204 on: December 22, 2017, 12:07:43 PM »
It's interesting how SAHMs are called "busybodies". but most of the working people here seem to know very detailed information about their friend's and relative's financial affairs. That's the true definition of a busybody. When you know how much debt someone has, what's in their bank account, and even how many times they buy coffee every week. Perhaps some people here just need to get a life? Mind your own financial affairs and don't worry so much about how someone else manages theirs. Unless they ask you for money, it really doesn't affect you at all.
That's the purpose of this thread, to mock those who "don't get it". Do you?

There's a big difference between those who post here and busybodies.

The reason that Mustachians post in the "Overheard at Work/Gym/Etc" threads is that people say stuff in public, there's no prying involved. I'm doing my work and my co-workers are discussing the merits of renovating a kitchen while they're $50k in debt. That's not prying. This is all overheard and observations. If I spend 250 days a year with the same 25 people in my team, for 5 years, I know a damn good load of info on them. I didn't have to pry. Humans talk... sometimes your co-workers are your second "family".

A busybody has a lot of time and nothing constructive to do, so likes to go around or make phone calls and dig up snippets of information.

No one's saying you, a SAHM, is a busybody. If I did generalize in my last comment, I apologize. We all speak here from life experiences. I grew up in a 3rd world country with tons of busybodies who were all SAHMs. That's my experience, my view. But I've noticed the phenomenon right here in America. In all the places I've lived, from Florida, to New England, to California.

Don't take it personally if I generalized. It's not the end of the world. Breathe. And have a very merry jolly happy holiday season.

(Why are you so defensive lately? Perhaps you need to take a break from this forum. Our willingness to facepunch won't help you.)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 12:14:07 PM by jinga nation »
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mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4205 on: December 22, 2017, 12:25:34 PM »
Lots of stay at home moms have been in the workforce, often for many years, so they do understand the level of effort required to produce money. The may even be the money manager for the entire household. So that could be where their advice is coming from.

This is true, but regardless of past industriousness, people who have more time on their hands have more time to care about things that are absolutely not their business.

Do I get judgment from my friends and family with very full lives of work, family, volunteering, hobbies, travel, whatever? Not nearly as much as I get from people who do less of all of those things.

It's not just how much time you have on your hands, either. It's also how intertwined you are.  Time and proximity help/hurt that.

We live on the opposite coast from the families.  Often when we go visit, sibling complains about parent, parent complains about sibling. Sib A complains about Sib B, and vice versa.  We get to be Switzerland because we aren't intertwined in peoples' daily lives. 

I'm sure my stepdad likes me better than my brother.  We talk weekly.  I changed a trip to stop in and care for him when he had surgery.  My brother almost never visits, despite living a few miles away.  Even then, only when he needs something (like free babysitting).

As far as time goes - my mother quit her job at some point because she wanted to be "at home" like she was when we were kids. Except she was miserable.  She had too much time on her hands to dwell about what was wrong with her and her life.  She started into depression, started drinking, and eventually it killed her.  When she worked, she was too fucking busy and tired to DWELL on anything really.

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4206 on: December 22, 2017, 12:51:01 PM »

This doesn't just apply to SAHP of course, it can apply to any person. I might also add that it's possible to be busy and still be a nosey, judgey, annoying human.

You mean, like people who notice how much money others spend, what they spend it on, and talk about it online....oh, like most of the posts here? Constantly noticing what people spend and what they spend it on is, well...being a busybody. And I'd say most or at least half of the posters here have full time jobs. Where do they find time to notice and comment on all these things? Perhaps their lives aren't as full or busy as they claim? It's very nosy and judgey to comment on co-workers buying Starbuck's coffee or what they spend on a new house. That is like oh...about 100% of the posts on this particular board.

Chesleygirl, I'm going to have to echo other's comments here. Are you ok? Because you don't seem ok. Take care of yourself.

crispy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4207 on: December 22, 2017, 02:32:14 PM »
Former SAHM who also didn't read these posts as being negative to SAHPs.  I will also say that maybe I was weird, but I had plenty of free time when I stayed home and have never understood the busy-ness that so many people describe even though I did chase around two children and did volunteer work. I went back to work because I was bored...maybe I was doing it wrong.

Gronnie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4208 on: December 22, 2017, 02:52:12 PM »
Just going to leave this here to remind those that get all up in arms about things that "offend" them what happens to them due to the offense.... nothing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceS_jkKjIgo

I take offense at people that get offended by every little thing, yet I just go on with my life.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 12:18:05 PM by Gronnie »

Chesleygirl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4209 on: December 25, 2017, 11:54:25 AM »
Former SAHM who also didn't read these posts as being negative to SAHPs.  I will also say that maybe I was weird, but I had plenty of free time when I stayed home and have never understood the busy-ness that so many people describe even though I did chase around two children and did volunteer work. I went back to work because I was bored...maybe I was doing it wrong.

Whatever. (Yawn). Hope you get all the thumbs up that you're looking for from the other posters.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4210 on: December 25, 2017, 12:07:57 PM »
You don’t get to say “yawn” when you’re clearly the one carrying a chip on your shoulder.

crispy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4211 on: December 25, 2017, 12:19:58 PM »
Former SAHM who also didn't read these posts as being negative to SAHPs.  I will also say that maybe I was weird, but I had plenty of free time when I stayed home and have never understood the busy-ness that so many people describe even though I did chase around two children and did volunteer work. I went back to work because I was bored...maybe I was doing it wrong.

Whatever. (Yawn). Hope you get all the thumbs up that you're looking for from the other posters.

Yes, anyone reading this thread can definitely see that I am the one seeking validation for my life choices in this threads. Oh, wait...

Seriously, between this thread and the one about the inheritance, your posts are very concerning. Since there is an inheritance thread, it may mean you recently lost a loved one. Please consider stepping back to deal with whatever is going on in your personal life. When I lost my dad 10 years ago, I honestly didn't realize how strongly I was affected and was surprised at how my grief played out. I hope whatever is bothering you gets better.

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4212 on: December 25, 2017, 01:55:35 PM »
Interesting to see everyone's differing definitions of "busybody".

My definition of "busybody" is to compare the action / peron up against an example from my childhood.    She was the neighbor on the corner, that knew immediately when you received a home delivery (furniture, appliance box), or a visitor just left, because she watched out the window, and came over within 1 hour with a pretense ("I have an extra zucchini for you", "Do you have any coffee? I'm out..."), simply to scope out what you just bought, who that person was, and why.

You know, that lady that my mom obviously did not consider a "friend" and politely addressed solely on the front porch.

Simply knowing a lot about someone else is not being a busybody to me, it is what you do with the information.  I am curious and I love puzzles. I keep chewing at a puzzle (quietly) until I figure it out.  It took me a while to solve out how my neighbors / SIL could buy so much fundraising crap ("Luxury Wrapping paper!") from the kids at our school.   I was genuinely puzzled because my income was close to 2x theirs at the time.


faithless

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4213 on: December 25, 2017, 02:26:48 PM »
It took me a while to solve out how my neighbors / SIL could buy so much fundraising crap ("Luxury Wrapping paper!") from the kids at our school.   I was genuinely puzzled because my income was close to 2x theirs at the time.

How? Credit cards/they can't?

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4214 on: December 26, 2017, 09:39:19 AM »
It took me a while to solve out how my neighbors / SIL could buy so much fundraising crap ("Luxury Wrapping paper!") from the kids at our school.   I was genuinely puzzled because my income was close to 2x theirs at the time.

How? Credit cards/they can't?

Grr, now you've got me wondering the same. Have you thought about asking them?

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4215 on: December 26, 2017, 05:42:55 PM »
It took me a while to solve out how my neighbors / SIL could buy so much fundraising crap ("Luxury Wrapping paper!") from the kids at our school.   I was genuinely puzzled because my income was close to 2x theirs at the time.

How? Credit cards/they can't?

Grr, now you've got me wondering the same. Have you thought about asking them?
Reference definition of "Busybody"....!  LOL   

So, no, I haven't asked directly.   

I discovered three things at play here:
1)  Families who are not saving for future education or retirement -- instead spending all in the here and now.  Defer planning to spend for education when it happens, out of available income, and to save for retirement after the kids have left the house.
2) HELOCs and credit cards supporting the lifestyle.
3) Grandparents who pay for all the kids' after school activities / gifts /  private school, maybe pay for a second car for the family, etc.   Or, just having grandparents do all the fundraiser purchasing of luxury wrapping paper.   

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4216 on: December 26, 2017, 10:16:46 PM »
Relative: Well, I was up all night debating whether or not I should buy a Dyson Stick Vac, really worrying me what to do etc etc
Me: Has your old vacuum cleaner died?
Relative: No, but the Dyson is on special. $300 off!

End of conversation. I've learned that further input on my part is not appreciated.

boyerbt

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4217 on: December 27, 2017, 06:56:09 AM »
My Brother's co-worker announced his two week notice for early retirement because he sold his bitcoin a few weeks ago and is walking away with roughly $850k. Both my brother and Dad were saying that his windfall wouldn't be enough for retirement...give me that money and I can call it a day.
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Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4218 on: December 27, 2017, 07:35:09 AM »
My Brother's co-worker announced his two week notice for early retirement because he sold his bitcoin a few weeks ago and is walking away with roughly $850k. Both my brother and Dad were saying that his windfall wouldn't be enough for retirement...give me that money and I can call it a day.

I would definitely be able to retire with that kind of money. Actually that means I'd have more money to live off than I do right now.

Over Christmas dinner, a relative told me he had 200 bitcoins some years back and spent most of it. He knows he used to have 20 or 30 left over, but it's been so long ago he doesn't know where they're stored. He has done everything in their power to track them but it seems they're lost for good. :(

boyerbt

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4219 on: December 27, 2017, 07:41:40 AM »
My Brother's co-worker announced his two week notice for early retirement because he sold his bitcoin a few weeks ago and is walking away with roughly $850k. Both my brother and Dad were saying that his windfall wouldn't be enough for retirement...give me that money and I can call it a day.

I would definitely be able to retire with that kind of money. Actually that means I'd have more money to live off than I do right now.

Over Christmas dinner, a relative told me he had 200 bitcoins some years back and spent most of it. He knows he used to have 20 or 30 left over, but it's been so long ago he doesn't know where they're stored. He has done everything in their power to track them but it seems they're lost for good. :(

Did your relative say what he purchased with the bitcoins? Does he seem to have any regret on spending them early now that the value has jumped so much?
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Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4220 on: December 27, 2017, 08:25:23 AM »
My Brother's co-worker announced his two week notice for early retirement because he sold his bitcoin a few weeks ago and is walking away with roughly $850k. Both my brother and Dad were saying that his windfall wouldn't be enough for retirement...give me that money and I can call it a day.

I would definitely be able to retire with that kind of money. Actually that means I'd have more money to live off than I do right now.

Over Christmas dinner, a relative told me he had 200 bitcoins some years back and spent most of it. He knows he used to have 20 or 30 left over, but it's been so long ago he doesn't know where they're stored. He has done everything in their power to track them but it seems they're lost for good. :(

Did your relative say what he purchased with the bitcoins? Does he seem to have any regret on spending them early now that the value has jumped so much?

He isn't too happy about it, although he's realistic enough to recognize that if he hadn't spent the bitcoins on something (he doesn't even remember what he bought with it ... it's 5+ years ago, it was something small and cheap)  he'd probably already sold them once they hit $25 or something.

But of course, there's always the 'what if'. He's building his own business while working fulltime for somewhere else and even the money from the 20 or 30 bitcoins would have allowed him to quit the day job. If he still had all 200, he wouldn't even have to think about his business, he could have retired straight away.

jezebel

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4221 on: December 28, 2017, 08:51:03 AM »
You don’t get to say “yawn” when you’re clearly the one carrying a chip on your shoulder.
Former SAHM who also didn't read these posts as being negative to SAHPs.  I will also say that maybe I was weird, but I had plenty of free time when I stayed home and have never understood the busy-ness that so many people describe even though I did chase around two children and did volunteer work. I went back to work because I was bored...maybe I was doing it wrong.

Whatever. (Yawn). Hope you get all the thumbs up that you're looking for from the other posters.

Yeah, no.  Get yourself together and stop taking it out on everyone else.

Fiscal_Hawk

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4222 on: December 28, 2017, 02:37:56 PM »
Had a relative remark over Christmas that it would probably take longer to pay off the CC after this year's Christmas than last years. She then said that last year the CC wasn't paid off until October!

My first thought was how much did you spend on presents?

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4223 on: December 28, 2017, 03:14:15 PM »
Had a relative remark over Christmas that it would probably take longer to pay off the CC after this year's Christmas than last years. She then said that last year the CC wasn't paid off until October!

My first thought was how much did you spend on presents?

A second thought could be, how much of a balance do you normally keep? I highly doubt someone would carry a large balance for several months solely on account for Christmas. There's a good chance they've been stringing things along.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4224 on: December 29, 2017, 09:17:08 AM »
Interesting to see everyone's differing definitions of "busybody".

My definition of "busybody" is to compare the action / peron up against an example from my childhood.    She was the neighbor on the corner, that knew immediately when you received a home delivery (furniture, appliance box), or a visitor just left, because she watched out the window, and came over within 1 hour with a pretense ("I have an extra zucchini for you", "Do you have any coffee? I'm out..."), simply to scope out what you just bought, who that person was, and why.

We had a neighbor like that right across the street from us. Back in those days, people rarely bought TVs or VCRs, and would just rent them month-to-month. My friend's family owned an appliance store, so as a lark I grabbed empty Sony TV and VCR boxes and propped them up against the garbage cans on garbage day. Then, we
 purposely never mentioned it and waited for the neighbor to crack. He lasted around six weeks, at which point he just had to ask us how we liked our new TV. Us: "What TV?". And then he didn't know what to say, so changed the subject.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4225 on: December 29, 2017, 11:29:14 AM »
I help my sister out with her taxes. She asked me if I earned more or less than her, and I answered in all honesty I earned a bit more (but not a lot).

My sister has the kind of job that sounds really fancy (she deals with famous people and visits nice places and is travelling a lot). I work in finance in IT and live a pretty frugal life - no car, non-fancy house, boring clothes, I go home at 5. Over Christmas dinner my mum found it necessary to tell the whole family that my sister worked so hard and was paid so badly "even Imma gets paid more!"

I did tell her I only earned a bit more, not much, and she explicitly asked for it, but I guess she feels very sorry for herself that even a pauper like me earns more than her.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4226 on: December 30, 2017, 01:45:44 AM »
Over Christmas dinner my mum found it necessary to tell the whole family that my sister worked so hard and was paid so badly "even Imma gets paid more!"

How wildly and incredibly rude.

Maenad

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4227 on: December 30, 2017, 10:13:36 AM »
DH had a family funeral this week and it reminded me of how brilliant he is to have learned from his parents' mistakes.

FIL decided a couple of years ago that he wanted to retire to Colorado. The right way to do this would be:
1. Research properties/rentals in the areas he wants to live in. Keep an ear to the ground as to how prices are moving.
2. Look over savings, determine how much he can get for his current house here.
3. Make sure all the numbers work out, put in some kind of earnest money on a place in CO.
4. Put house here up for sale, quit job, move to CO.

What does FIL do?
1. Decides he wants to live in CO (before pot was legalized there). Ignore impact of legalization on housing market, stick head in sand.
2. Quit job.
3. Sell home here.
4. Move out to CO and realize he can no longer afford anything other than a place a mile away from the Federal Supermax prison.
5. A couple of years later, remodel part of his house into a rental so that he has enough money to live off of.

Just a little more forethought and he would have been OK, but he tends to leap before he looks and he makes things harder on himself as a result.

BIL is a whole other story. His life of bad choices has resulted in him spending this past summer sleeping in his truck, homeless. He has his own small eBay business, since he "really likes working for himself", but it obviously isn't enough to actually support him. Since he's spent most of his adulthood mooching off of FIL I'm guessing he'll end up in CO as well. At least no one expects us to help him out.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4228 on: December 30, 2017, 12:57:30 PM »
Over Christmas dinner my mum found it necessary to tell the whole family that my sister worked so hard and was paid so badly "even Imma gets paid more!"

How wildly and incredibly rude.

Beat me to it, PFUK.

@Imma, it sounds like your sister would lord it over you however that conversation went. If she made more than you, you'd never hear the end of that either. I just can't believe your mother weighed in on this.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

craiglepaige

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4229 on: December 30, 2017, 01:59:47 PM »
Over Christmas dinner my mum found it necessary to tell the whole family that my sister worked so hard and was paid so badly "even Imma gets paid more!"

How wildly and incredibly rude.

Beat me to it, PFUK.

@Imma, it sounds like your sister would lord it over you however that conversation went. If she made more than you, you'd never hear the end of that either. I just can't believe your mother weighed in on this.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Yeah that's a shitty comment from your mom Imma. Not only is she putting your info out there, she's then pitting you against your sis.  Sorry.
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Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4230 on: December 30, 2017, 05:35:03 PM »
Just another reason to keep your financial info all to yourself. ;)

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4231 on: December 31, 2017, 03:49:05 AM »
Just another reason to keep your financial info all to yourself. ;)

I guess that's what I'm going to do from now on. It's a shame because as a family we've always been open about money and I'm really glad about that. I learned about things like investing and budgeting because my mum discussed these things openly with us (not giving us all the details, but explaining them in an age-appropriate way) and I guess because of that my siblings feel comfortable asking me to help them out with their taxes. In my s/o's family money is a huge taboo and I hate that.

I think in most families people are cast in a certain role at a young age and it's hard to get out of that. My younger sister has always been the hardworking spendypants career girl and I have always been the frugal housewife with a deadend job. I think many people underestimate my job (we never talk about it, they barely know what I do) and overestimate hers. I don't show off my money, but at least I know I'll retire at some point. I already can't wait to announce that to my family :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4232 on: December 31, 2017, 09:50:18 AM »
Imma, I've never met you or your family, so my guess isn't an informed one, but I wonder if you're overlooking something in how your family sees you.
If you're the one that they turn to for tax help, it may be that they respect you and see you as the sensible one. If your sister has a high-paced job that comes with associating with rich people, she may feel pressured to spend in a way to keep similar appearances to them and feel stressed that she can't.

If your mom had the good financial sense to teach you about budgeting, she may be playing up the glamor in your sister's job to make her feel better about her life. I doubt that she would teach you about budgeting and consider you dull for being financially sensible. She probably just doesn't want to boast about your smart money skills around your sister, lest your sister feel badly. 

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Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4233 on: December 31, 2017, 10:20:45 AM »
I already can't wait to announce that to my family :)

May your retirement be early, unexpected and cause much hilarious drama on their part. And you can smile all the way home.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4234 on: December 31, 2017, 05:58:15 PM »
<snip>
However, If we look back to the original post that brought this all on, @TheGrimSqueaker was saying he has a nasty relative who judges his lifestyle, where due to her own personal circumstance cannot appreciate why TGS and fam choose to live that way. (TGS I think I summarized this sufficiently, but I don't want to put words in your mouth).

You paraphrased me accurately. Sorry for the delayed response; I have been distracted by a houseguest who flew out this morning. The visit was less painful than anticipated partly because, although I didn't achieve complete "Didn't-erot" during the visit, I successfully fended off most of the spending opportunities and the relative and I had long and meaningful discussions about financial priorities. This was possible due chiefly to my skill at making things ferment. Respect was exchanged. Nobody was fed to the Venomous Spaz Beast.

Having returned to this thread to discover the mess I made, I think I should probably do what I can to clean it up since it's fallout due to something I said.

I believe that what touched off the SAHM debate was my post in which I bitched about my well-heeled relative's lack of respect for my financial priorities. @jinga nation illustrated an example of divergent financial priorities involving two people who had exactly the same income and household expenditure (being a married couple) but radically different attitudes toward the appropriate use of money because only one half of the couple was actively involved in earning it. His example was not a criticism of the (generally successful) breadwinner/homemaker partnership but an example of how it can go badly wrong because of divergent financial perspectives and priorities between the partners which led to a very unhealthy, dysfunctional relationship characterized by mutual lack of respect.
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4235 on: December 31, 2017, 06:39:14 PM »
FIRE for many, if not most, people here means a life exactly as you describe, of unpaid work for themselves, their family and their wider community. Few people here would assume that no paid work means no life or no contribution to society. That's half the point of MMM!

Interestingly, if my relative's branch of the family is any example, not being the person who generated the family's wealth never seems to translate into "nothing to do". They simply focus on things besides paid employment. It could be entertaining, art, fashion, academia, charitable ventures, a hobby business, or homemaking for someone who wants to expand the household wealth even more. These things often benefit the family unit and sometimes society overall.

It might be a good time to acknowledge that not all the activities people choose when FI (be it through inheritance, retirement, or partnership with a breadwinner) are productive or positive. Some things, such as personal education or travel, are neutral. They're a form of consumption that benefits nobody but the people who provide the products or services being consumed. Of greater concern are the people who engage in self-destructive behavior to the point where they undermine the financial well-being of their household and actually create financial or lifestyle problems for others. A problem gambler, for example, can easily fritter away what could otherwise be the nest egg that supports the next generation. Even just one spendthrift can plunge a household into bankruptcy-inducing levels of consumer debt.
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Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4236 on: January 01, 2018, 11:09:52 AM »
Imma, I've never met you or your family, so my guess isn't an informed one, but I wonder if you're overlooking something in how your family sees you.
If you're the one that they turn to for tax help, it may be that they respect you and see you as the sensible one. If your sister has a high-paced job that comes with associating with rich people, she may feel pressured to spend in a way to keep similar appearances to them and feel stressed that she can't.

If your mom had the good financial sense to teach you about budgeting, she may be playing up the glamor in your sister's job to make her feel better about her life. I doubt that she would teach you about budgeting and consider you dull for being financially sensible. She probably just doesn't want to boast about your smart money skills around your sister, lest your sister feel badly.

I hope it's this, but I'm not sure. This isn't the first time similar things have happened but they are indeed very out of character for my mother. She's sensible with money and she's not a mean kind of person. She did work a similar job as my sister in her 20s and still feels to this day she was massively underpaid, so maybe she's projecting that on my sister.

I always feel like I'm considered to be the sensible, but plain, boring and uninteresting relative, but that could just as well be in my head.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4237 on: January 01, 2018, 01:02:39 PM »
I'll bet a bunch of us could say the same about feeling like the sensible, but plain, boring and uninteresting relative. Forget about it. Stay on your chosen mission to be self-sufficient and retire early.

I expect many of us will return to work to listen to coworkers describe their expensive holidays and all their travels. And then in a month or so they might start moaning about bills and credit cards. ;)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 01:05:13 PM by Just Joe »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4238 on: January 01, 2018, 04:56:29 PM »
Just coming to vent. I have a relative who actually changes her voice tone when going into pathetic mode . . . she has a quite specific "you should feel sorry for me now" voice. I suppose lots of little kids have this type of whiny "feel sorry for me now" voice, but don't most people outgrow this? Seriously the most similar sounding voice I've heard this year was from the 4-year-old boy in the grocery checkout line appealing to his Mom in response to her rejection of his candy bar purchase request.

She uses the same odd voice for talking about "I'm injured" issues as she does for "I'm broke" issues. The thing is, when the thing she wants sympathy for is financial, which is usually is, I simply don't feel sorry for her. She made (and continues to make) a series of terrible choices regarding money over the course of her long life. Don't get me wrong: I won't let her starve. But unless it comes to that, she is going to have to figure it out. Using whiny-voice mode hoping I will volunteer to pay for xyz every time I talk with her is not going to work. I wonder if it works on anyone else in our extended family? Hmmmm.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4239 on: January 01, 2018, 08:22:28 PM »
Imma, I've never met you or your family, so my guess isn't an informed one, but I wonder if you're overlooking something in how your family sees you.
If you're the one that they turn to for tax help, it may be that they respect you and see you as the sensible one. If your sister has a high-paced job that comes with associating with rich people, she may feel pressured to spend in a way to keep similar appearances to them and feel stressed that she can't.

If your mom had the good financial sense to teach you about budgeting, she may be playing up the glamor in your sister's job to make her feel better about her life. I doubt that she would teach you about budgeting and consider you dull for being financially sensible. She probably just doesn't want to boast about your smart money skills around your sister, lest your sister feel badly.

I hope it's this, but I'm not sure. This isn't the first time similar things have happened but they are indeed very out of character for my mother. She's sensible with money and she's not a mean kind of person. She did work a similar job as my sister in her 20s and still feels to this day she was massively underpaid, so maybe she's projecting that on my sister.

I always feel like I'm considered to be the sensible, but plain, boring and uninteresting relative, but that could just as well be in my head.

I think I would stop doing her taxes Imma. This would have made me mad enough that I wouldn’t help her anymore. incidentally similar issues are why my mom doesn’t get told any financial details because she tells my sister, who has the world’s biggest mouth and not only tells the rest of the family but will make snarky comments.
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4240 on: January 02, 2018, 08:45:12 AM »


Interestingly, if my relative's branch of the family is any example, not being the person who generated the family's wealth never seems to translate into "nothing to do". They simply focus on things besides paid employment. It could be entertaining, art, fashion, academia, charitable ventures, a hobby business, or homemaking for someone who wants to expand the household wealth even more. These things often benefit the family unit and sometimes society overall.


I believe in the more aristocratic days in England they referred to men who came from family money and thus didn't need to get a paid job as "gentlemen of leisure."

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4241 on: January 03, 2018, 12:29:42 PM »
My BIL spent $275 (with his ex/roommate - so not sure how it was divided) on a hotel night for new year's eve. They got a room and 2 drink tickets each for the party.  Paid with a CC and said he'll probably be paying it 'till his birthday in July.
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MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4242 on: January 03, 2018, 12:36:14 PM »
I see a lot of people booking hotel rooms for NYE. I can see some of the benefits (don't have to drive or use Lyft/Uber and you have a room and bed nearby if you're single and get lucky).

craiglepaige

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4243 on: January 03, 2018, 12:43:30 PM »
I see a lot of people booking hotel rooms for NYE. I can see some of the benefits (don't have to drive or use Lyft/Uber and you have a room and bed nearby if you're single and get lucky).


I guess the NYC celebration would be a cool experience, not so much the Sheraton Inn twenty minutes from my house.

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ketchup

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4244 on: January 03, 2018, 02:17:57 PM »
My BIL spent $275 (with his ex/roommate - so not sure how it was divided) on a hotel night for new year's eve. They got a room and 2 drink tickets each for the party.  Paid with a CC and said he'll probably be paying it 'till his birthday in July.
Jesus, am I so out of touch? $275 sets this guy back by seven months!?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4245 on: January 03, 2018, 09:24:58 PM »
I'll bet a bunch of us could say the same about feeling like the sensible, but plain, boring and uninteresting relative.

This.  That's the #1 reason this forum is so popular.  It's a place to hang out where talking about sensible/boring things is cool:)  In real life if I talk about IRA's, people look at me like I'm an alien.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4246 on: January 04, 2018, 02:28:34 AM »


Interestingly, if my relative's branch of the family is any example, not being the person who generated the family's wealth never seems to translate into "nothing to do". They simply focus on things besides paid employment. It could be entertaining, art, fashion, academia, charitable ventures, a hobby business, or homemaking for someone who wants to expand the household wealth even more. These things often benefit the family unit and sometimes society overall.


I believe in the more aristocratic days in England they referred to men who came from family money and thus didn't need to get a paid job as "gentlemen of leisure."

I was reading an autobiography the other day and in the 60s this man's friend was still putting "Gentleman" as his occupation on his passport. "Lady who lunches" is another good phrase, but I think a bit more derogatory than "gentleman of leisure".

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4247 on: January 04, 2018, 02:55:08 AM »
I'll bet a bunch of us could say the same about feeling like the sensible, but plain, boring and uninteresting relative.

This.  That's the #1 reason this forum is so popular.  It's a place to hang out where talking about sensible/boring things is cool:)  In real life if I talk about IRA's, people look at me like I'm an alien.

True. That's why I like my volunteer job of filing taxes for members of my union so much. All my coworkers there are tax geeks too. Every january we have a few classes about this year's changes in the law and everyone's really excited for the new tax season. Very few people will understand that.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4248 on: January 04, 2018, 07:51:20 AM »
My BIL spent $275 (with his ex/roommate - so not sure how it was divided) on a hotel night for new year's eve. They got a room and 2 drink tickets each for the party.  Paid with a CC and said he'll probably be paying it 'till his birthday in July.
Jesus, am I so out of touch? $275 sets this guy back by seven months!?


I didn't ask for details, maybe he has a current amount in CC debt, which with the addition of $275 will require 7 months to pay off.

I do know he's not smart with his money and at 30yo has been living with someone, his parents, his aunt/uncle, his cousin and now his ex, because he doesn't make enough to live on his own and hasn't tried to cut back on expending nor curtailed his lifestyle.

Perfect example, after talking about the hotel stay he talks about his suv needing a windshield because of a good size crack on it. But the windshield is $420(installed), he then asks his Mom (my mil), "How am I supposed to come up with that kind of money?
-The conqueror will always become a slave to his conquest.

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Zamboni

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4249 on: January 04, 2018, 08:16:35 AM »
^wow. I hope she did not indulge him with "windshield money."