Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 602077 times)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #400 on: July 16, 2015, 02:11:27 PM »
Quote from: Joe Average
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Easy on the necroposting, Joe! BREAAAAAATHE! ;)

Joe definitely posts with above-average frequency ;-)
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #401 on: July 16, 2015, 02:15:55 PM »
Put her a "tiny house" in the back yard?
Oh, we have room in the house as is. I do like the idea of a tiny house back there, and I have friends who'd help... ;)
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #402 on: July 16, 2015, 02:31:29 PM »
None of my relatives "get it", other than maybe one of my siblings. My parents live in a 2000+ sq ft home, just the two of them, have cable TV with premium channels(HBO, etc...)! Have two cars even though my dad doesn't work anymore. One of their windows is broken and boarded up, and has been for 2+ years, leaking cold air into the hot desert every summer while they enjoy their HBO and Showtime! Gah... pisses me off just thinking about it. Fix the goddamn window! I'm not asking that much...

Meanwhile, for their 30th anniversary a while back, my siblings contact me with the notion of throwing a big party for them. After squabbling over where to have the event(Park was out of the running due to heat, my place was too small, etc...). Anyway, despite repeated pleas to not spend money on ridiculous things since their home needed repairs like a new window, and if we really wanted to do something nice we could fix it... instead my sister spend hundreds of dollars on food and decorations for a party of like 25 people. Meanwhile the window is still broken, but hey the board now has some nice curtains over it!!!

Have a window installation cookout. Look Mom and Dad - we bought you a window.

I had a coworker once upon a time. Well eduated, well paid. Married to a good old boy for many years. The roof went bad over a spare bedroom. Rather than fix it - they just closed the door and never went in there. I can only imagine what that looked like or how it smelled - like those abandoned places pictures?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 02:00:13 PM by Joe Average »

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #403 on: July 16, 2015, 03:07:25 PM »
Quote from: Joe Average
**All the things**
Easy on the necroposting, Joe! BREAAAAAATHE! ;)

Joe definitely posts with above-average frequency ;-)

I think he's going through every single thread and responding to anything. regardless of how old the content is. lol props for threading through so many threads.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #404 on: July 16, 2015, 06:28:08 PM »
I have a cousin who we helped ...

I have an in-law who's been bailed out by her mother for most of her life. In a blazing argument with my DH she screamed, "Nobody ever helps me! I'm on my own!" Did she just forget the previous decade, is cognitive dissonance really that strong, or is it a psychological defence mechanism?

MarciaB

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #405 on: July 16, 2015, 06:51:00 PM »
Oh my, where do I begin...?

 They live in a modest 2-3 bedroom house that they bought back in the late 90's for under 90k, but they have refinanced a couple of times and pulled every last nickel of equity out of it (I know for a fact they have a second mortgage or HELOC that they used to fix my mom's car). Mom is 68 and still working close to full time plus drawing social security. Dad started delivering travel trailers a couple of years ago. The truck he already owned "didn't have enough power", so he promptly went out and spent $60k+ on a brand new Dodge. His payments and insurance run over $1k/mo and he wonders why he can't seem to get ahead (not to mention it gets about 8 MPG). They are the type that will go out to eat several times a week then fret about being able to pay the bills. I know they've got credit card debt, but no idea how much. I do know that they will both hide debt from each other. Mom loves shopping at Von Mauer on the store card and justifies overspending because it's zero interest.


I have a similar tale, but it's my in-laws. And for extra fun, I'm a widow so I'm dealing with this without their son.

They purchased land in CA in the mid-1970's for about $35,000. Then built a modest home on it for about another $100,000 or so. And in the late 80's put a big addition on that for another $200,000 or so (not that there are adequate records of course). So you would think that they would be long done with the mortgage(s) that bought the land and managed the construction, right?

And you would be wrong. Their current mortgage is over $600,000! Yes folks, these people are IN THEIR 80s and have a jumbo mortgage. Because they refi every couple of years to what, pay down credit card debt, get a lower rate, make a mortgage broker happy, put their heads farther up their asses...???

Simply stunning. Horrifying in its scope. And it is compromising their last years.

They've been overspending their income since the late 1950s when they got married. Blows my mind.


Michael792

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #406 on: July 16, 2015, 07:30:45 PM »
Have an aunt and uncle nearing their fifties. They have built several houses during their marriage, and have a LOT of nice things. Their newest house is probably their last one, but the walk in closet and bathroom is almost half the size of the house. They built in an extra bedroom for guests, which is cool when us or other family visits, but everyone's so spread out that rarely happens. My aunt is a spendthrift as well. They do have an autistic son who will always need caretakers, so they know that they have to pay for him going forward (not knocking this. B's a cool guy, but he'll always be a kid in his head. He needs the care).

When I was on leave, I was staying with them for a few days. Aunt J was complaining about how they'd never retire, and so I said something along the lines of "This isn't for everyone, but if you read MMM you can learn how to retire and live on 20-30k a year. She tells me, "That's impossible, not with what we spend. My biggest problem right now is I am a shopaholic." So I tell her she could still read it to learn some ways to change that if she wants, and she just shook her head. I don't get why you'd be worried about retiring and then refuse to change so that you wouldn't have to worry. Whatever.
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Making Cookies

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #407 on: July 16, 2015, 07:53:28 PM »
Quote from: Joe Average
**All the things**
Easy on the necroposting, Joe! BREAAAAAATHE! ;)

Joe definitely posts with above-average frequency ;-)

Sorry - speeding through the thread on a slow day. Leads to alot of posts in quick succession. ;)

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #408 on: July 16, 2015, 07:56:04 PM »
Quote from: Joe Average
**All the things**
Easy on the necroposting, Joe! BREAAAAAATHE! ;)

Joe definitely posts with above-average frequency ;-)

Sorry - speeding through the thread on a slow day. Leads to alot of posts in quick succession. ;)

I've done it too :) Though I just had 3 more projects put on my plate at work, so hopefully will actually have enough work to do.

Zamboni

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #409 on: July 17, 2015, 05:17:50 AM »
Their current mortgage is over $600,000! Yes folks, these people are IN THEIR 80s and have a jumbo mortgage. Because they refi every couple of years to what, pay down credit card debt, get a lower rate, make a mortgage broker happy, put their heads farther up their asses...???

Simply stunning. Horrifying in its scope. And it is compromising their last years.

Not to absolves you in-laws of their personal responsibility, but it sounds like the most recent mortgage broker and underwriter need to be taken out back and shot.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #410 on: July 17, 2015, 08:17:09 AM »
Not to absolves you in-laws of their personal responsibility, but it sounds like the most recent mortgage broker and underwriter need to be taken out back and shot.
I'm sure it's easy to rationalize (just like those reverse mortgages peddled on daytime TV): "they don't have long to live and they can't take it with them... why not let them enjoy life?"
There's a shared responsibility there. Adults should make adult choices, and they should also be given good advice by professionals. Sounds like repeated failure on both sides here. Anyone who bought into that property the way they did should be rich by now, not drowning in debt from it.
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HairyUpperLip

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #411 on: July 17, 2015, 08:20:04 AM »
Not to absolves you in-laws of their personal responsibility, but it sounds like the most recent mortgage broker and underwriter need to be taken out back and shot.
I'm sure it's easy to rationalize (just like those reverse mortgages peddled on daytime TV): "they don't have long to live and they can't take it with them... why not let them enjoy life?"
There's a shared responsibility there. Adults should make adult choices, and they should also be given good advice by professionals. Sounds like repeated failure on both sides here. Anyone who bought into that property the way they did should be rich by now, not drowning in debt from it.

Ahhh, the thought of a society where people aren't predominately selfish pricks. One day. :)

MarciaB

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #412 on: July 17, 2015, 12:36:58 PM »
Not to absolves you in-laws of their personal responsibility, but it sounds like the most recent mortgage broker and underwriter need to be taken out back and shot.
I'm sure it's easy to rationalize (just like those reverse mortgages peddled on daytime TV): "they don't have long to live and they can't take it with them... why not let them enjoy life?"
There's a shared responsibility there. Adults should make adult choices, and they should also be given good advice by professionals. Sounds like repeated failure on both sides here. Anyone who bought into that property the way they did should be rich by now, not drowning in debt from it.

Yes they should be very wealthy. Especially since the property is in a part of CA that has enjoyed stratospheric property appreciation. That's the only way they could have continually refinanced and pulled out equity (because how else do you get to a 600K+ mortgage when you initial borrowings totaled somewhere around 350K - 400K??

Insanity!!

OlyFish

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #413 on: July 18, 2015, 12:22:02 PM »
Relative is leasing an Escalade and just bought a Cartier watch and diamond earrings, goes on multiple resort vacations every year. Well I just found out this is all being financed through a huge HELOC. But they ask me why I clean my own house "when you make so much money!". Um, because I want to keep it?

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #414 on: July 18, 2015, 11:09:58 PM »
I don't get why you'd be worried about retiring and then refuse to change so that you wouldn't have to worry. Whatever.

Maybe she wasn't complaining but instead is just stating it as a fact. I think it's somewhat better that she's aware that her shopping desires is holding back from saving for retirement, instead of the people that excuse their expenses on being 'normal,' or because they HAVE to buy a new car and go on multiple international vacations that they can ill afford.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #415 on: July 19, 2015, 01:22:02 PM »
As I was reading this I was thinking about all the crazy moms. (mine included)

I recalled going to see her and my father a year or two ago. I drove down in my 17 year old Honda. She was visually dismayed. She was upset that I had an old beater. She exclaimed "you and your wife are professionals, you should have nicer cars - like BMW's or Mercedes"  She went on to say "You used to have nicer cars when you were poor" . Umm. Yeah mom, that's why I was poor. LOL (And I'm still poor, paying of debt and stupid mistakes...)  Even after I explain all of this she still doesn't get it. Worried about what other people will think.

I LOVE IT when other people (who worry about other people) think I'm poor when I might make twice as much as they do. So my cars are old. So I'm not wearing fancy clothes. We're clean, well fed and have a nice roof over our heads. I get this attitude from the 1980s (when I was a kid) and everybody was worrying so much about whether everybody had that stupid little alligator on their shirts (Izod). It was then that I (apparently) resolved to be a contrarian. ;)

Oh, goodness, I love the duality, too!  Another one is that I take care of the things I own, whereas my mom doesn't seem to care about banging up her things -- or anyone else's.  When she knocks things into my walls, etc. and I tell her to be careful, she's like, "Don't be so sensitive.  You're so uptight."  Later, she's like, "Your car is so nice.  Mine's all old and beat up."  Uh, cause and effect?

Also, turns out those Izod alligator shirts are actually Lacoste crocodile shirts:  https://bestofthe80s.wordpress.com/2012/01/27/izod-alligator-shirts/  :-)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #416 on: July 21, 2015, 12:54:01 AM »
Went to visit my sister up at her new weekend trailer she bought, and at some point during the weekend the topic of money came up. My sister's philosophy on spending was that as a 30-something with a young child + a house etc. it's just the time of life where she's expected to have a pile of debt and hope that said pile gets worn away by pay increases and reduced costs as her kids grow up in time for retirement.

At one point she mentioned that she doesn't really keep track of how much money she spends, she just puts everything on the line of credit and all the paychecks go into the line of credit, and some months it goes and and some months it goes down. That one in particular was absolutely baffling for my fiancee, though I was a bit more used to it given my family's consumerist lifestyles.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #417 on: July 21, 2015, 01:51:39 AM »
A relative was griping about another member of the family:

"He's so stingy. When they got married, he wouldn't even let her buy magazines!"

She said this like it was the biggest crime on earth. I found it fairly reasonable, especially as I'm fairly sure "wouldn't let her" is an exaggeration of "they got on a budget".

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #418 on: July 21, 2015, 07:07:01 AM »
Went to visit my sister up at her new weekend trailer she bought, and at some point during the weekend the topic of money came up. My sister's philosophy on spending was that as a 30-something with a young child + a house etc. it's just the time of life where she's expected to have a pile of debt and hope that said pile gets worn away by pay increases and reduced costs as her kids grow up in time for retirement.

At one point she mentioned that she doesn't really keep track of how much money she spends, she just puts everything on the line of credit and all the paychecks go into the line of credit, and some months it goes and and some months it goes down. That one in particular was absolutely baffling for my fiancee, though I was a bit more used to it given my family's consumerist lifestyles.

I bet they have no idea that this is like adding a 6% tax (or whatever) to every purchase they make. The extra cost is going to be greater than whatever interest rate they are paying.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #419 on: July 21, 2015, 07:22:15 AM »
"He's so stingy. When they got married, he wouldn't even let her buy magazines!"

OMG I HATE the "let" language about money. It absolutely undermines everything about shared budgets and responsibilities. And also it implies that it's one person's money tocontrol. Which I guess might be the case in some (rare) circumstances, but generally speaking, that is such bs.

Maybe I've got a more visceral reaction to this language than most: my grandmother was a stay-at-home mom (like most women of her generation...) and she genuinely had to justify to my grandfather why she wanted a new lipstick (whereas his woodworking tools for hobby use were obviously not for anyone else to question). I was really young when I swore that I would never be in a situation where I had to ask for permission for minor expenses. (And I've always earned at least 50% more than anyone I dated, so... guess that stuck with me.)

Pooperman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #420 on: July 22, 2015, 11:49:26 AM »
Fiancee's family has some good stories for this thread. Let me preface this by saying one of her aunts (out of several) ended up fairly mustachian-ish. They raised children on one salary and retired at 55 I want to say. Government job, pension, tsp.

On the other hand, there's her other aunt who is losing her house. Why? She didn't pay the mortgage for a couple years during the recession after she divorced her husband. After not paying for a couple years, she tried to refinance but wasn't qualified (what a shock!). Recently, someone bought it from the bank so she's supposed to be packing up to move. My fiancee has tried to help her pack, but she's doing nothing to pack/sell her stuff. She's in her fifties and completely f-ed.

Going with this theme, fiancee's brother and SIL have no money. They are going on trip after trip with their two kids, but complain about being broke. Until very recently, FMIL (future MIL) was paying for their medical insurance to the tune of double our rent. Did I mention they live in a McMansion with SIL's parents living there and paying for part of it? So a few days ago, fiancee's brother tells her that he paid off his credit card debt. I was surprised at the time. A couple days after that, I heard about the trips and put them together. Likely they took out a HELOC, paid off the plastic and then used the rest to go on trips.

Finally, FMIL. She and FFIL have had really good incomes for many years yet remain essentially broke. They are aging and are finally selling their business, which should be enough to pay off their debts with a bit left over. The bad news is that they have no savings and are going to have to live off of whatever is left after everything is sold plus SS. It's not gonna be pretty. The sad thing is, they should have done well, and part of why they are where they are is because they love to help people (insurance being an example).

SIL has told us that we should go out and do stuff. By that she meant eat out, go to the movies, or spend in general. This was after she heard we're frugal. She stopped after we took our trip to Canada, but it was annoying to hear it for several months...

onehair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #421 on: July 24, 2015, 09:38:01 AM »
More foolishness from my uncle!  First off I am curious how revolving loans work.  It appears my grandfather set one up before his death with my uncle's and grandmother's name on it.  Naturally my uncle used it like an ATM until my mother and grandmother decided to pay it off and close it triggering a mouth foaming fit from my uncle and subsequent cold shouldering.  My mother said he is likely to approach her next month for money she is anticipating it.

zephyr911

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #422 on: July 24, 2015, 02:09:04 PM »
More foolishness from my uncle!  First off I am curious how revolving loans work.  It appears my grandfather set one up before his death with my uncle's and grandmother's name on it.  Naturally my uncle used it like an ATM until my mother and grandmother decided to pay it off and close it triggering a mouth foaming fit from my uncle and subsequent cold shouldering.  My mother said he is likely to approach her next month for money she is anticipating it.
What an asshole! Does he have a job?
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TheBuddha

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #423 on: July 24, 2015, 10:59:08 PM »
Posting to follow
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eyePod

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #424 on: July 25, 2015, 05:11:25 AM »
As I was reading this I was thinking about all the crazy moms. (mine included)

I recalled going to see her and my father a year or two ago. I drove down in my 17 year old Honda. She was visually dismayed. She was upset that I had an old beater. She exclaimed "you and your wife are professionals, you should have nicer cars - like BMW's or Mercedes"  She went on to say "You used to have nicer cars when you were poor" . Umm. Yeah mom, that's why I was poor. LOL (And I'm still poor, paying of debt and stupid mistakes...)  Even after I explain all of this she still doesn't get it. Worried about what other people will think.

I LOVE IT when other people (who worry about other people) think I'm poor when I might make twice as much as they do. So my cars are old. So I'm not wearing fancy clothes. We're clean, well fed and have a nice roof over our heads. I get this attitude from the 1980s (when I was a kid) and everybody was worrying so much about whether everybody had that stupid little alligator on their shirts (Izod). It was then that I (apparently) resolved to be a contrarian. ;)

FYI those Vintage Izod Lacoste shirts with the alligators are very good items to re-sell on eBay! I buy them whenever they're under $5 and sell them for $25+ all day! Here's one I sold just a little while ago. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Mens-Izod-Lacoste-Red-Long-Sleeve-Turtleneck-Blue-Aligator-XL-USA-/121548529986?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4cdb6142
I blog on items flipped for a profit on eBay:
Flipping A Dollar

I made 6.5k in profits in 2015!

onehair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #425 on: July 29, 2015, 11:55:28 AM »
Far as I know my uncle is still unemployed living off family handouts and luck I suppose.  Ever since my mom cut him off we've heard no word.  I was over yesterday helping my mother to clean out Grandma's house.  My aunt who still seems to have no savings no plans to move out and no apartments checked out was there standing over us, criticizing all we do, taking me to task for taking Grandma's cookbooks which I want for sentimental value, picking on my mother and generally being a giant PITA (Pain In The A**).


Adventine

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #426 on: July 29, 2015, 12:25:43 PM »
My parents totally forgot about the PHP 150,000 (around USD 3,300) I loaned to them  in January 2014.

They originally asked for the money as additional capital for the family business, and promised me a share of the eventual profit.

Well, I waited a year and a half and never saw a cent of any kind of repayment. When I  finally reminded them last weekend, they were totally shocked to find out they still owed me money.

In fairness to them, they paid back the full amount on the next banking day. And promised to pay me interest at some vague, nebulous time in the future.

This isn't the first time they've demonstrated how awful they are with finances.

I dread the day they ask me again for money. Saying no is easier said than done.

wordnerd

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #427 on: July 29, 2015, 07:20:22 PM »
My brother is planning to visit my other brother this weekend (600 miles away). I asked him if he had bought tickets yet, and he said he'll get around to it soon. He wants to leave the day after tomorrow.


Making Cookies

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #428 on: July 31, 2015, 01:49:39 PM »
"Fun" to watch someone become homeless? Are you serious? Even if they deserve it, actually enjoying witnessing it says something not so nice about you. Watching their downfall will not make you more superior.

Not to mention, it is in your best interest for them to have what they need, so they don't come looking to

Correction - fun to watch them (anyone) get a clue about what you knew all along...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 02:15:42 PM by Joe Average »

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #429 on: July 31, 2015, 02:04:07 PM »
My brother is planning to visit my other brother this weekend (600 miles away). I asked him if he had bought tickets yet, and he said he'll get around to it soon. He wants to leave the day after tomorrow.
Wow - plane tickets (assuming - 600 miles pretty far to drive for a weekend trip) 2 days before leaving.  That's going to cost a pretty penny.
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wordnerd

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #430 on: July 31, 2015, 04:44:11 PM »
My brother is planning to visit my other brother this weekend (600 miles away). I asked him if he had bought tickets yet, and he said he'll get around to it soon. He wants to leave the day after tomorrow.
Wow - plane tickets (assuming - 600 miles pretty far to drive for a weekend trip) 2 days before leaving.  That's going to cost a pretty penny.

Yep! He had ruled out driving. As of yesterday, he still hadn't bought tickets but insisted he was going.

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #431 on: August 03, 2015, 10:40:59 AM »

Yep! He had ruled out driving. As of yesterday, he still hadn't bought tickets but insisted he was going.

lol wow. did he end up going?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #432 on: August 03, 2015, 03:13:05 PM »
Posting to follow.

Thanks everyone, my kin seem much better after reading these 9 pages.
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #433 on: August 03, 2015, 08:26:55 PM »
My sister-in-law called us up Sunday morning asking to borrow $550 for a flight to Miami, so that she could catch her flight to Cuba that afternoon.

She had a flight earlier in the day that was purchased with her last credit card miles, but she missed it due to being out partying the night before.

She makes good money, but she has $100k+ in student loans, a car loan, an apartment, and apparently maxed credit cards.  Her phone gets shut off every 3 months because of not paying the phone bill, so there was no way we were going to loan give $550 that would never be seen again.


mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #434 on: August 03, 2015, 10:25:31 PM »
My sister-in-law called us up Sunday morning asking to borrow $550 for a flight to Miami, so that she could catch her flight to Cuba that afternoon.

She had a flight earlier in the day that was purchased with her last credit card miles, but she missed it due to being out partying the night before.

She makes good money, but she has $100k+ in student loans, a car loan, an apartment, and apparently maxed credit cards.  Her phone gets shut off every 3 months because of not paying the phone bill, so there was no way we were going to loan give $550 that would never be seen again.

What was the reaction when you said no?

I have a relative who often asks for handouts but we've learnt better. Now when I say no I get sworn at and hung up on.

That only serves to reinforce our decision, but it does dampen my mood when we're just at home having dinner and I get a phone call accusing me of being a bitch.

Rufus.T.Firefly

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #435 on: August 04, 2015, 05:51:34 AM »
I totally had a "this conversation belongs in the Antimustachian Wall of Shame" moment over the weekend.

We traveled out-of-state to see family this weekend. My SIL and BIL are having twin babies soon, which is very exciting. They are a little older than my wife and I, and have established excellent careers. I don't know how much exactly they make, but BIL got a large raise and promotion in the engineering/science field. My guess is they make well over six figures. Probably 140-160K.

It wasn't always this good. Just a couple of years ago, BIL was trying to return to the workforce after graduating from Law School. He went all the way through (on a good scholarship), only to find out that he wasn't interested in law. It was painful to watch at the time as he grew more depressed, trying to find any job. He would have even been happy to take his pre-law school job. It took him about a year to find his current employment. Right after this, he stated that they had nearly gone broke trying to live off of SIL's income (I'm guessing she makes 45-55K/year + bonus).

You would think that this experience would traumatize them into being frugal, rapidly paying off student loans and stashing the money away? Nope. Here is a list of things they have done in the past 2 1/2 years since he was hired:
- Stated that student loans will take 30 years to pay off
- Purchased a house with a small down payment -  they borrowed $5,000 from my wife's parents because they couldn't afford the down payment, and then took a year to pay it back.
- Regularly attend major league sporting events
- Leased a Ford Expedition

Which brings me to this weekend, when they showed up to the get-together with a 2012, nice Ford-150. It only cost $25,000 (what a deal!). "I could never go back to driving a car," he said. During the conversation about his new truck, BIL revealed to me the real reason for this purchase: he needs it so he can buy toys - and first on that list is a boat. I was speechless ... just listened and tried to remember to smile...
"I have worked my way up from nothing to a state of extreme poverty"

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codemonkey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #436 on: August 04, 2015, 07:09:27 AM »
My sister-in-law called us up Sunday morning asking to borrow $550 for a flight to Miami, so that she could catch her flight to Cuba that afternoon.

She had a flight earlier in the day that was purchased with her last credit card miles, but she missed it due to being out partying the night before.

She makes good money, but she has $100k+ in student loans, a car loan, an apartment, and apparently maxed credit cards.  Her phone gets shut off every 3 months because of not paying the phone bill, so there was no way we were going to loan give $550 that would never be seen again.

What was the reaction when you said no?

I have a relative who often asks for handouts but we've learnt better. Now when I say no I get sworn at and hung up on.

That only serves to reinforce our decision, but it does dampen my mood when we're just at home having dinner and I get a phone call accusing me of being a bitch.

All of a sudden she had to end the conversation and get off  the phone because the flight had just dropped in price.  She said she'd call back, but I don't expect to hear from her anytime soon.  I have no idea if she made it to Cuba or not, but chances are that my Mother In Law gave her money even though she cannot afford to do so.

We did give a legitimate excuse that our hospital bill (we had a baby in June) just arrived, our car insurance and home insurance are due this month, and our property tax is due in early September.  Granted, we have money to cover all of that, but it sounded good on the phone as a reason that we didn't have an extra $550 laying around to just hand over.

We stay quiet about our finances around my wife's family, and this is the first time someone has reached out for money from us.  I was an unemployed slacker in their eyes when we got married, and I'm happy for that initial impression to stick around while we continue to put away 50% of our income.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #437 on: August 04, 2015, 08:54:28 AM »
I totally had a "this conversation belongs in the Antimustachian Wall of Shame" moment over the weekend.

We traveled out-of-state to see family this weekend. My SIL and BIL are having twin babies soon, which is very exciting. They are a little older than my wife and I, and have established excellent careers. I don't know how much exactly they make, but BIL got a large raise and promotion in the engineering/science field. My guess is they make well over six figures. Probably 140-160K.

It wasn't always this good. Just a couple of years ago, BIL was trying to return to the workforce after graduating from Law School. He went all the way through (on a good scholarship), only to find out that he wasn't interested in law. It was painful to watch at the time as he grew more depressed, trying to find any job. He would have even been happy to take his pre-law school job. It took him about a year to find his current employment. Right after this, he stated that they had nearly gone broke trying to live off of SIL's income (I'm guessing she makes 45-55K/year + bonus).

You would think that this experience would traumatize them into being frugal, rapidly paying off student loans and stashing the money away? Nope. Here is a list of things they have done in the past 2 1/2 years since he was hired:
- Stated that student loans will take 30 years to pay off
- Purchased a house with a small down payment -  they borrowed $5,000 from my wife's parents because they couldn't afford the down payment, and then took a year to pay it back.
- Regularly attend major league sporting events
- Leased a Ford Expedition

Which brings me to this weekend, when they showed up to the get-together with a 2012, nice Ford-150. It only cost $25,000 (what a deal!). "I could never go back to driving a car," he said. During the conversation about his new truck, BIL revealed to me the real reason for this purchase: he needs it so he can buy toys - and first on that list is a boat. I was speechless ... just listened and tried to remember to smile...

No, I wouldn't think that at all. Most likely, in their mind, they have gone through a hardship and now deserve all these things that their new life situation "allows" them to have. While I have no data to support this, I'm fairly certain this mindset is pretty commonplace. Look at how many doctors go out and buy a bunch of expensive stuff once they start making "real doctor money" when they still have boatloads of student loans. Same thing can be said for lawyers. Same thing can be said for fresh college graduates that managed to land a well paying fresh out of college job who go out and buy a flashy and/or gas guzzling expensive new car instead of
a) not buying a car at all and finding a place to live in biking range, with Uber or taxi supplements as required 
b) buying a non flashy fuel efficient used car 
c) or at the very least, if they really want a new car, at least get a fuel efficient one

Not that I have any data to back this up. If you want to challenge me on that then go ahead.

I think everyone can agree though that consumerism is pretty engrained in most people's minds these days.

Rufus.T.Firefly

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #438 on: August 05, 2015, 12:40:44 PM »
Quote
Most likely, in their mind, they have gone through a hardship and now deserve all these things that their new life situation "allows" them to have

Clearly this is the case. But it still boggles my mind; especially how many different avenues they are taking simultaneously to "improve their lifestyle." It's like bottled-up pressure of entitlement has just been uncapped.

When they took 12 months to pay off the $5,000 loan, their parents mentioned something to the effect of "Hey, why are you getting all this new stuff, going to sporting events, and not returning the money?" This caused a lot of upset between both sides. Maybe the parents shouldn't have gotten on them so quickly, but when you realize they should be clearing $5,000 after expenses every month, you kind of see the parents' point.
"I have worked my way up from nothing to a state of extreme poverty"

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ArcadeStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #439 on: August 05, 2015, 02:21:57 PM »

Quote
Most likely, in their mind, they have gone through a hardship and now deserve all these things that their new life situation "allows" them to have


When they took 12 months to pay off the $5,000 loan, their parents mentioned something to the effect of "Hey, why are you getting all this new stuff, going to sporting events, and not returning the money?" This caused a lot of upset between both sides. Maybe the parents shouldn't have gotten on them so quickly, but when you realize they should be clearing $5,000 after expenses every month, you kind of see the parents' point.

We had this same issue with money lent to my brother in law. It was a much smaller amount thankfully, and it became pretty clear that he had no intention of paying it back as he was going on vacations, buying a new car (which he routinely trades in for something new), etc. my wife refuses to say anything and I've given up on ever seeing it repaid. Still pisses me off though... I see it as a lack of personal integrity.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #440 on: August 05, 2015, 02:27:18 PM »
We had this same issue with money lent to my brother in law. It was a much smaller amount thankfully, and it became pretty clear that he had no intention of paying it back as he was going on vacations, buying a new car (which he routinely trades in for something new), etc. my wife refuses to say anything and I've given up on ever seeing it repaid. Still pisses me off though... I see it as a lack of personal integrity.
It's amazing how many people seem to feel less sense of obligation about friend/family debt than other types. I've helped several friends with small things, and most will go indefinitely without offering repayment unless/until you hound them. Then there are the excuses, and the delays, etc.
I've already written off more than one. We'll see about the rest.
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vern

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #441 on: August 05, 2015, 11:29:54 PM »
personal integrity.

Stop cursing on this forum!
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #442 on: August 10, 2015, 09:26:49 AM »
My MIL doesn't know how to use her smart phone.  After setting up her email, downloading her favorite games and showing her how to use messaging, she was happy.  After that she started asking me EVERY single stupid question she could think of.  Everything from how do you change the volume (After having the phone for over a year) to more reasonable questions like how to change the background photo.  I honestly had to tell her - I don't have that type of phone, idk how to change that setting, maybe she should google it. (She lives 3+ hours away, so I was trying to do all this while talking to her on the phone - she wouldn't even call from another phone).

So after 2 months of this, she sells her phone and buys the exact same one I have.  Now on top of all the stupid questions, I also get to hear about how I forced her to sell the phone she loved and made her get this POS phone she can't stand.

So much for trying to be nice and help.

Buy a $5 flip phone so she thinks she needs to downgrade again. ;) Long distance tech support can be a hassle... I have no idea how some of these people get themselves into such a tech tangle aside form clicking on pop up boxes that they don't first read.

iowajes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #443 on: August 10, 2015, 09:44:47 AM »
I have family members who are having to sell their house due to threat of foreclosure.

But it's okay- their realtor is almost certain she knows of a program they can use to get a house loan with "really horrible credit", so they are going to be able to buy a new house.


Advice: If you haven't been paying your current mortgage (because you are freaking irresponsible and spend the money elsewhere)- maybe don't take out another one?

The worst part: Their house is worth almost 3x what they paid for it when they first bought it in the 80s. We thought that might help them with this quest to buy a new house; even though it is in bad shape, and they might have to sell a bit undermarket because they don't have money to do repairs; if they used the equity, they could buy a modest home outright (so not paying the mortgage isn't an issue, since clearly mailing a check or clicking a button on the internet is too hard).  Nope- they refinanced a few years ago and are actually underwater. They've had this house for 30 years and owe more on it than it is worth!


On an opposite topic: my BIL cut the cord on his cable! And my SIL might follow suit!  When BIL said he was going to save $2000 (holy crap!) a year on this move, SIL said "we never watch ours, we should do the same".  She has been counting pennies to be able to afford a vacation with us, and I said "why not cancel the cable, put the payment in a jar marked "vacation" and you could go on one every year if you wanted!"  She said "Hmm, never thought of it that way."  Now, hopefully they do cut the cable, and don't actually go on a vacation yearly, but at least this gets her  thinking what a drain the cable is- especially if they don't use it!

codemonkey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #444 on: August 10, 2015, 10:09:59 AM »
The worst part: Their house is worth almost 3x what they paid for it when they first bought it in the 80s. We thought that might help them with this quest to buy a new house; even though it is in bad shape, and they might have to sell a bit undermarket because they don't have money to do repairs; if they used the equity, they could buy a modest home outright (so not paying the mortgage isn't an issue, since clearly mailing a check or clicking a button on the internet is too hard).  Nope- they refinanced a few years ago and are actually underwater. They've had this house for 30 years and owe more on it than it is worth!

This!  My in laws bought a house in '85 for $47,000.  They still live there.  They owe over $100,000 on it right now.  My MIL is rightfully worried about losing the house when my FIL (bad health) passes away.

We've tried to help my MIL with retirement planning and budgeting, but she said she'd rather not know and that it's to stressful to think about.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #445 on: August 10, 2015, 10:17:39 AM »


On an opposite topic: my BIL cut the cord on his cable! And my SIL might follow suit!  When BIL said he was going to save $2000 (holy crap!) a year on this move, SIL said "we never watch ours, we should do the same".  She has been counting pennies to be able to afford a vacation with us, and I said "why not cancel the cable, put the payment in a jar marked "vacation" and you could go on one every year if you wanted!"  She said "Hmm, never thought of it that way."  Now, hopefully they do cut the cable, and don't actually go on a vacation yearly, but at least this gets her  thinking what a drain the cable is- especially if they don't use it!

Yikes, $2000 a year means over $160 a month, can't imagine spending that much. My parents don't spend that much, and they spring for satellite so that they can get channels from India.

For your SIL, wow can't imagine that this is something to think about if they never even use it.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #446 on: August 10, 2015, 10:21:59 AM »
Nope- they refinanced a few years ago and are actually underwater. They've had this house for 30 years and owe more on it than it is worth!
I was talking to a friend recently in a similar situation. He was talking about buying a second house and renting out his first one, which he's been living in for 20 years. I asked why he didn't just sell it (since he seemed really reluctant to be a landlord). He said he can't sell it because it is underwater. Turns out he cashed out the equity to pay credit card debt at the peak of the housing market... argh.
...it's not at all alarming that people have started quoting me in their siggy lines.

iowajes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #447 on: August 10, 2015, 10:26:46 AM »


For your SIL, wow can't imagine that this is something to think about if they never even use it.

I think for SIL it is going to be slow and steady to be making better choices. They really are turning their lives around; I never would have suspected she and her husband would be where they are today if I was asked 5 years ago.  They are making better choices...  I think that it is just "everyone has cable", so it probably didn't occur to her that not having cable would be an option. 

I think in the past she has thought we vacation frequently because we are rich (and comparatively we are, so I kind of understand the envy)- but is slowly seeing that one of the reasons we have this extra money is because of the choices we make on what we spend.  Most of her vacation fund has come from reducing eating out; she was shocked when we told her we go out for dinner less than 2-3 times a year, and I go out to lunch less than once a month. But hearing what her brother was paying for cable (and yes- that included ALL the sports packages)- well that alone makes up for our frequent vacations.

iowajes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #448 on: August 10, 2015, 10:27:50 AM »
Turns out he cashed out the equity to pay credit card debt at the peak of the housing market... argh.

At least he paid of a debt.

I'm pretty sure in the case of my family member the money they got in the refinance went to a vacation, a big TV, and BMW.

AerynLee

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #449 on: August 10, 2015, 11:03:58 AM »
The worst part: Their house is worth almost 3x what they paid for it when they first bought it in the 80s. We thought that might help them with this quest to buy a new house; even though it is in bad shape, and they might have to sell a bit undermarket because they don't have money to do repairs; if they used the equity, they could buy a modest home outright (so not paying the mortgage isn't an issue, since clearly mailing a check or clicking a button on the internet is too hard).  Nope- they refinanced a few years ago and are actually underwater. They've had this house for 30 years and owe more on it than it is worth!

This!  My in laws bought a house in '85 for $47,000.  They still live there.  They owe over $100,000 on it right now.  My MIL is rightfully worried about losing the house when my FIL (bad health) passes away.

We've tried to help my MIL with retirement planning and budgeting, but she said she'd rather not know and that it's to stressful to think about.
I'm eyeing a house (land really...) right now like this. The house at best needs stripped back to the studs and redone, at worst a possible full teardown and start over. Looking back on the history is was bought in 1998 for $87.5k and foreclosed on this year with a $155k loan balance and the bank is trying to sell it for $30k. I'm tempted to offer them $15k