Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1437127 times)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3800 on: October 17, 2017, 08:12:45 AM »
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I was also taught that you are supposed to give wedding gifts approximately equal to the cost of the dinner you were served at the reception.  You might not know exactly how much it cost, but you can usually guestimate from the type of wedding.  This is the protocol my husband and I follow, but this is not how our guests approached our wedding.  Maybe I've always been wrong?  Our wedding guests gave us either gifts or money that equaled roughly $50 per household, even though almost every household consisted of 2 adults and multiple kids.  Oh well.  It's not something I want to get held up on, but it was slightly disheartening, especially when I attended weddings for some of our guests in the past, and gave them quite a bit more than they gave us in return.

It wasn't until my own wedding that I realized that some people were taught this is a "thing".  One friend of mine gave me cash equal to 2 dinners. We were coworkers, so she knew what it was per person.

It would never occur to me to do that.  I always thought people would bring what they could afford.  That's not the point of the wedding.  It's a celebration.

I had a few aunts and uncles come to my wedding and write a check for $25.  It was $55-60 a person.  But these are lovely people who drove 5 hours, paid to stay in a hotel, to attend my wedding. I was so thrilled that they came, I honestly didn't care if they brought any gift at all.  If we are going to decide that the gift should equal the cost of the wedding, then I figure cost of travel should be included.

Sometimes I fantasize about there being a carved-in-stone rule about how much to spend, such that guests who must travel long distances could qualify for some of their expenses to be reimbursed, instead of having to bring or ship a gift in addition to all the other expenses.

Whenever I hear about a destination wedding, I still immediately think about how much it must cost the bride and groom to fly their guests in and host them at the hotel.   And then I remember that this is not what usually happens.   I wish there was a rule about this too..  If you invite an out of town guest, that you are required to put them up *somewhere* (in a home, hotel, or tent in your backyard), which they can decline to pay for their own alternative, if desired.   

I am also weird for doing strange things like paying for my bridesmaid's dresses and the rental tuxes (I chose them, so I pay for them, right?)  etc.

Not weird, just more traditional. The origin of bridesmaid's dresses and a bunch of identically-dressed attendants was actually back when people in the nobility really did have servants or retainers for whom they provided a uniform. Weddings really went off the rails when it became socially acceptable to make people wear giant butt bows on their dresses AND pay for the dubious privilege of buying such a single-use monstrosity.

The origin of bridesmaids identically dressed is far more ancient than that. All these women dressed the same was meant to confuse evil spirits that might curse the bride and groom. That's why the groomsmen also dress alike. And we have a bridal party because the Romans required 10 witnesses to a wedding.

I don't think anyone of any breeding would have a lowly attendant in a wedding party. The liveried staff were meant to be as unobtrusive as possible.

The identically-dressing women in those days were dressed the same as the bride. That hasn't been common for centuries. It's surprising because it seems incongruous now, but during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance (and sometimes even later) it wasn't unusual for members of the aristocracy and nobility to willingly take out the chamber pot for members of the royal family.

Service to a higher-ranking person or family was not considered shameful in the feudal system. Waiting directly on the monarch provided people an opportunity to set themselves or their relatives up for other opportunities to make money such as being given lands or monopolies. If nothing else, they got to lobby for what they wanted. Meanwhile they became friends of the ruler. So there was competition for the job, and positions in the royal household often went to people of rank or children of the wealthy. For special occasions, such as coronations or weddings, the boss would put on a big party and pay for everything including a new and special set of clothing. It was a form of conspicuous consumption. The people in the wedding party *were* generally the ones nearest and dearest to the ruler.

Naturally plenty of people wanted to copy the King or Queen, at least superficially.

Pushing the cost of the clothing onto the wedding attendants kind of defeats the point of conspicuous consumption, at least to people in the know.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3801 on: October 17, 2017, 08:55:21 AM »
Pushing the cost of the clothing onto the wedding attendants kind of defeats the point of conspicuous consumption, at least to people in the know.

But....if you buy clothing for your attendants today, in an era when wedding guests assume those costs are borne by the attendants themselves, is it still conspicuous consumption? I mean, it is for the attendants, who know you bought their clothes, but I feel like conspicuous consumption is supposed to be, I don't know, bigger?

I bought my wedding party's clothing. I thought I was being nice, but if we can reframe this as self-serving, I'm game. I always wanted some bridezilla stories about myself.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3802 on: October 17, 2017, 09:51:23 AM »
Pushing the cost of the clothing onto the wedding attendants kind of defeats the point of conspicuous consumption, at least to people in the know.

But....if you buy clothing for your attendants today, in an era when wedding guests assume those costs are borne by the attendants themselves, is it still conspicuous consumption? I mean, it is for the attendants, who know you bought their clothes, but I feel like conspicuous consumption is supposed to be, I don't know, bigger?

I bought my wedding party's clothing. I thought I was being nice, but if we can reframe this as self-serving, I'm game. I always wanted some bridezilla stories about myself.

Conspicuous consumption only needs to impress the people whose opinions matter. Being OK with the fact that there are large numbers of people whose opinions don't matter is the first step to take to achieve upper-class, entitled snobbery. The next step, the one that will vault you into true 'zilla territory, is taking the fact for granted. The behavior has to be automatic, reflexive, and unthinking. It's not just a process of not giving a f***. It's total obliviousness to the idea that a f*** might be wanted, expected, or given by other people in your position.

This is why the most tasteful charity, and the most tasteful spending, is not an attempt to impress the unwashed masses. You're doing it right with the dresses. Your 'zilladom will be an invitation-only event. Because you are superior. The fact that there's a ton of people whose opinions don't matter gives you massive snob credibility. It's what the Victorians were trying to do with all the bizarre little forks and spoons at a place setting: deliberately creating a gap between insiders and outsiders, and then hiring someone else to polish the results.

Whether the majority of the guests even bother to think about who paid for the dresses, and what their default expectation is, pretty much depends on the norm for your family and friends, and for those of your spouses. There's a tipping point at which one custom or the other, is the norm and won't excite comment.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3803 on: October 17, 2017, 11:36:31 AM »
...
The identically-dressing women in those days were dressed the same as the bride. That hasn't been common for centuries. It's surprising because it seems incongruous now, but during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance (and sometimes even later) it wasn't unusual for members of the aristocracy and nobility to willingly take out the chamber pot for members of the royal family.

Service to a higher-ranking person or family was not considered shameful in the feudal system. Waiting directly on the monarch provided people an opportunity to set themselves or their relatives up for other opportunities to make money such as being given lands or monopolies. If nothing else, they got to lobby for what they wanted. Meanwhile they became friends of the ruler. So there was competition for the job, and positions in the royal household often went to people of rank or children of the wealthy. For special occasions, such as coronations or weddings, the boss would put on a big party and pay for everything including a new and special set of clothing. It was a form of conspicuous consumption. The people in the wedding party *were* generally the ones nearest and dearest to the ruler.

Naturally plenty of people wanted to copy the King or Queen, at least superficially.

Pushing the cost of the clothing onto the wedding attendants kind of defeats the point of conspicuous consumption, at least to people in the know.

Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle gets into this a bit.  Today we think in terms of an elevator pitch, getting face time with the CEO, working on your golf-and-talk game or having a visible project.  Same game different outfits. 

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3804 on: October 17, 2017, 12:26:07 PM »
I think alot of us inherit these kinds of situations. Don't feel bad.

Me? As I said, they started it. But having seen how it works, I am determined that it will be different for my children. They will be obliged to have a proper face-to-face relationship with, for example, my brother until the age of eighteen. Then it's on them, though I'll still encourage them. But if that means me hauling the family across the country to see him (and his potential future family) in person more than once every five years then I'm damn well going to do it, because the children can't do it on their own.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3805 on: October 17, 2017, 01:20:26 PM »


Most of the families on my mother's side are that way. Older generations frequently save in order to give their children, grandchildren, and other family members a better start in life. Helping with child care and education is common. So is a heavily subsidized start in a family business or a household. If a person doesn't have grandchildren, they select some nieces and nephews to receive special support. It generally isn't an entire university education that gets paid for, but room and board while a young adult is attending classes is not out of the question.

Based on your post, it sounds to me as though your father owes you a gigantic social debt. You don't see it or acknowledge it in part because so many other people cooperated with him to enable him to continue to treat you poorly. Indeed, after years of being abused to that extent it may be hard for you to notice smaller-scale imbalances. Or, you might feel as though one-way-street relationships between adults are somehow normal, appropriate, and sustainable. (They're not.)

With your father, as with most abusive people, everyone has to maintain a level of contact that's "safe" for themselves, that will not lead to further abuse. In many cases, limiting contact to occasional essentially public interaction or online interaction is safe, but in your specific case you've tried it and found that, since you're his favorite target, the maximum safe contact you can have with him happens to be zero. Other people in your family can get away with more contact chiefly because they aren't his preferred target. It appears to me that you're maintaining a safe distance. You're also not falling for the velociraptor play. Good.

There's a natural give and take in all human relationships-- a sort of ebb and flow, as it were-- but sometimes the flow is predominately one-way with one person doing the lion's share of the giving and the other doing most of the taking, for an extended period of time. That, in most societies, creates a social debt even if both parties are willing. If the social debt is not balanced, eventually the person doing the giving turns off the tap, so to speak, and lets the relationship die a natural death. The symptom of a person who doesn't balance out social debt is... not having any close, long-term friends.

It sounds as though you have a basically abusive, non-functional family that is banding together to help your father continue to abuse you. Under the circumstances, eloping and sending a heartfelt letter to each of the people you would have otherwise invited to announce your marriage (and, for some, explaining in writing that your decision to elope is a direct result of their specific manipulative behaviors), is highly appropriate.

The gap left by your abusive family must have been hard to fill. Were there truly no teachers, coaches, neighbors, mentors, bosses, or co-workers who made a difference in your life, with whom you're still in contact? It just seems unusual to me that there's not even one individual besides your grandmother who's hosted you for holiday meals, lent you money, helped you move, babysat you as a child, watched your kids if you have any, let you couch surf for more than a couple days, or set you up with a job lead. If everyone who did that is deceased, then it's possible you don't actually owe anything to anyone because you really did do it all by yourself. Otherwise, you may want to make a list of people who have helped you or given to you in a big way, and consider finding some way to acknowledge them. You don't have to invite them to a wedding, or even a reception, but is it possible to host or entertain them individually? If you were to reach out to them in some way I believe you would put yourself in a position to cultivate a healthy network of people that could become what some people call a "family of choice".

Thanks for your kind reply :) I guess both my fiance and I have grown up in such disfunctional families we have a hard time believing what a 'normal' family dynamic is. I've already learned so much from the last two pages of discussion, all kinds of traditions I only knew from Jane Austen novels .... that are apparantly still normal.

You hit the nail on the head by saying that people who don't balance out social debts tend to not have any close, long-term friends. Our parents certainly didn't, which is also why my fiance ended up with very little outside adult influences. Both sets of parents depended heavily on the care of the maternal grandmothers. Sadly my fiance's grandma passed a long time ago. I also had an elderly great aunt who lived on the family farm where my father worked. Sadly, she is long gone too. They were all deeply religious catholic women with a very simple faith. They were the major caring influence in our lives, but it took me quite some time to shake off the idea that you just need to walk behind other people, propping them up and clearing up the mess they make, and never stand up for yourself.

Other than that, honestly, until I met my fiance, there weren't many other people. I was fiercely independent as a child and did everything by myself. I think very people really noticed my parents' absence, if they did, they didn't comment on it. (Although, looking back, the fact that I turned up at my siblings' parent-teacher meetings instead of my parents, should have rang some bells for some people...)  I moved out by putting all my stuff into a backpack and taking the bus to my new town. We now have a small group of close friends generally from the background, but my fiance feels very uncomfortable inviting only friends to our wedding and not blood relatives.

We've also experienced very few weddings personally. I've been to two in my adult life, one of a former co-worker (we found out at the wedding the couple didn't have friends, only co-workers and family attended) and one of a friend of mine. She celebrated her 5th anniversary recently. Eloping or parents-and-witnesses-only weddings are pretty much the norm, if people bother to get married at all. Weddings are expensive and few young couples (I'm 27) can afford it.

As for the size and value of the gift: although it's polite and expected to take a gift, I'm a firm believer that a gift should never be an entrance fee to a party. You invite people because you value their company. I know people who have gone into debt buying their only daughter an expensive wedding gift and I wouldn't want people to get into debt to attend my party, or have them eat ramen for the rest of the month. We always invite a friend on a very low income over for Christmas, and every year I tell her not to buy us anything. She's a great cook so instead she always brings a dish. I much prefer it that way. I don't want anyone to get into problems because I invited them and I would hate if anyone would choose to not attend my party just because they felt they couldn't afford the 'entrance fee'. The friend that married 5 years ago had a big party, but I was quite poor back then. I gave what I could afford and I made her something homemade as well. If I had more, I would have given her more, but I didn't. I would be disappointed in my friend if she had minded that. 

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3806 on: October 17, 2017, 02:59:28 PM »
...
The identically-dressing women in those days were dressed the same as the bride. That hasn't been common for centuries. It's surprising because it seems incongruous now, but during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance (and sometimes even later) it wasn't unusual for members of the aristocracy and nobility to willingly take out the chamber pot for members of the royal family.

Service to a higher-ranking person or family was not considered shameful in the feudal system. Waiting directly on the monarch provided people an opportunity to set themselves or their relatives up for other opportunities to make money such as being given lands or monopolies. If nothing else, they got to lobby for what they wanted. Meanwhile they became friends of the ruler. So there was competition for the job, and positions in the royal household often went to people of rank or children of the wealthy. For special occasions, such as coronations or weddings, the boss would put on a big party and pay for everything including a new and special set of clothing. It was a form of conspicuous consumption. The people in the wedding party *were* generally the ones nearest and dearest to the ruler.

Naturally plenty of people wanted to copy the King or Queen, at least superficially.

Pushing the cost of the clothing onto the wedding attendants kind of defeats the point of conspicuous consumption, at least to people in the know.

Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle gets into this a bit.  Today we think in terms of an elevator pitch, getting face time with the CEO, working on your golf-and-talk game or having a visible project.  Same game different outfits.

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George gets Steinbrenner's attention by bringing in a calzone to a lunch meeting. Suddenly he's having lunch with the boss who listens to his ideas.

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3807 on: October 17, 2017, 03:41:24 PM »
Well, to continue the stories of interesting family, may I present a branch of my family?

Background:
Uncle & Aunt have 2 boys, one factors in, we'll call him Cousin.
Cousin married Girl.
Uncle & Dad are brothers
Sister and Boyfriend (BF).
Everyone is white (extremely), except Girl is Chinese and BF is Indian. (this is relevant)

So, Uncle & aunt haven't been decent human beings to Dad, and by extension, me and Sister, at least until we got older and had the potential of adding babies to the family. As a result, we don't really have a relationship with Uncle & aunt, and don't particularly want one. We avoid them in general.

Cousin & wife invited Sister and BF to dinner. They went to dinner, and discovered that Uncle and Aunt were also there! This had not been mentioned ever. Dinner/evening went ok per Sister, slightly awkward, but 4 year old twins really help smooth everything out.

The next day, Uncle does a group text which does not include Sister and BF. In text is a group picture from the evening. Caption: "Guess who's coming to dinner"

Given general ages and history of this guy's behavior, it's pretty safe to assume he was referencing the movie. (Google "guess who's coming to dinner" if you haven't seen it) Ugh.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3808 on: October 18, 2017, 07:08:42 AM »
Given general ages and history of this guy's behavior, it's pretty safe to assume he was referencing the movie. (Google "guess who's coming to dinner" if you haven't seen it) Ugh.
It's been a long time since I've seen that movie, but doesn't it end with the characters becoming more comfortable with people of another race?

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3809 on: October 18, 2017, 08:09:33 AM »
Given general ages and history of this guy's behavior, it's pretty safe to assume he was referencing the movie. (Google "guess who's coming to dinner" if you haven't seen it) Ugh.
It's been a long time since I've seen that movie, but doesn't it end with the characters becoming more comfortable with people of another race?

I believe the movie does, yes. That's not how this guy works though.

Roe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3810 on: October 18, 2017, 02:52:23 PM »
Given general ages and history of this guy's behavior, it's pretty safe to assume he was referencing the movie. (Google "guess who's coming to dinner" if you haven't seen it) Ugh.
It's been a long time since I've seen that movie, but doesn't it end with the characters becoming more comfortable with people of another race?

I believe the movie does, yes. That's not how this guy works though.

I know the type. If nothing else, not including sis and BF in the text is a dead give away.

nnls

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3811 on: October 21, 2017, 02:22:30 AM »
Quote

I am also weird for doing strange things like paying for my bridesmaid's dresses and the rental tuxes (I chose them, so I pay for them, right?)  etc.

You are awesome for doing that! I wish brides did not expect so much from their bridesmaids.  This summer, my sister in law was married and is a lovely person BUT she kept pressuring me to pay for make-up/up-do. I wasn't even in the wedding party.

I feel like in Australia its common for Brides to pay for bridesmaid dresses.  That's the way all my friends have done it. And then if they wanted everyone in matching shoes/jewellery they paid for those as well. And hair and makeup also covered by bride.

So one friend said she didnt mind what shoes we wore and just wanted us with plain chain/earrings so we wore what we already had. The others paid for everything. You are being invited to be part of their wedding you shouldn't have extra expenses

Us bridesmaids did pay for the bachelorette party though

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3812 on: October 21, 2017, 03:09:48 AM »
Quote

I am also weird for doing strange things like paying for my bridesmaid's dresses and the rental tuxes (I chose them, so I pay for them, right?)  etc.

You are awesome for doing that! I wish brides did not expect so much from their bridesmaids.  This summer, my sister in law was married and is a lovely person BUT she kept pressuring me to pay for make-up/up-do. I wasn't even in the wedding party.

I feel like in Australia its common for Brides to pay for bridesmaid dresses.  That's the way all my friends have done it. And then if they wanted everyone in matching shoes/jewellery they paid for those as well. And hair and makeup also covered by bride.

So one friend said she didnt mind what shoes we wore and just wanted us with plain chain/earrings so we wore what we already had. The others paid for everything. You are being invited to be part of their wedding you shouldn't have extra expenses

Us bridesmaids did pay for the bachelorette party though

That's generally how it's done in NZ also. It's becoming more common to just all wear black dresses with some accessory that's the wedding colour, and the bridesmaids just pick their own black dress style. They would probably already have something in their wardrobe. Cuts down the ridiculous costs a bit. I've seen it done really beautifully with hair pieces and flowers to add that colour. Makes the bride's dress stand out as well.

Astatine

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3813 on: October 21, 2017, 04:40:01 AM »
Quote

I am also weird for doing strange things like paying for my bridesmaid's dresses and the rental tuxes (I chose them, so I pay for them, right?)  etc.

You are awesome for doing that! I wish brides did not expect so much from their bridesmaids.  This summer, my sister in law was married and is a lovely person BUT she kept pressuring me to pay for make-up/up-do. I wasn't even in the wedding party.

I feel like in Australia its common for Brides to pay for bridesmaid dresses.  That's the way all my friends have done it. And then if they wanted everyone in matching shoes/jewellery they paid for those as well. And hair and makeup also covered by bride.

So one friend said she didnt mind what shoes we wore and just wanted us with plain chain/earrings so we wore what we already had. The others paid for everything. You are being invited to be part of their wedding you shouldn't have extra expenses

Us bridesmaids did pay for the bachelorette party though

That's generally how it's done in NZ also. It's becoming more common to just all wear black dresses with some accessory that's the wedding colour, and the bridesmaids just pick their own black dress style. They would probably already have something in their wardrobe. Cuts down the ridiculous costs a bit. I've seen it done really beautifully with hair pieces and flowers to add that colour. Makes the bride's dress stand out as well.

Hmm, I've heard it both ways here. I got married in 2012 and my bridesmaids paid for their dresses and shoes. But... I just said, buy a black dress that is at least knee length, black shoes that you feel comfortable wearing and wear a bit of make-up (at least lipstick). So I figured either they would have at least some of that in their wardrobe, but if not, they could choose a cheapish black dress that they could more wear out of (eg wear it to work or out to dinner etc). It seemed to work well.

nnls

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3814 on: October 21, 2017, 04:12:19 PM »
Quote

I am also weird for doing strange things like paying for my bridesmaid's dresses and the rental tuxes (I chose them, so I pay for them, right?)  etc.

You are awesome for doing that! I wish brides did not expect so much from their bridesmaids.  This summer, my sister in law was married and is a lovely person BUT she kept pressuring me to pay for make-up/up-do. I wasn't even in the wedding party.

I feel like in Australia its common for Brides to pay for bridesmaid dresses.  That's the way all my friends have done it. And then if they wanted everyone in matching shoes/jewellery they paid for those as well. And hair and makeup also covered by bride.

So one friend said she didnt mind what shoes we wore and just wanted us with plain chain/earrings so we wore what we already had. The others paid for everything. You are being invited to be part of their wedding you shouldn't have extra expenses

Us bridesmaids did pay for the bachelorette party though

That's generally how it's done in NZ also. It's becoming more common to just all wear black dresses with some accessory that's the wedding colour, and the bridesmaids just pick their own black dress style. They would probably already have something in their wardrobe. Cuts down the ridiculous costs a bit. I've seen it done really beautifully with hair pieces and flowers to add that colour. Makes the bride's dress stand out as well.

Hmm, I've heard it both ways here. I got married in 2012 and my bridesmaids paid for their dresses and shoes. But... I just said, buy a black dress that is at least knee length, black shoes that you feel comfortable wearing and wear a bit of make-up (at least lipstick). So I figured either they would have at least some of that in their wardrobe, but if not, they could choose a cheapish black dress that they could more wear out of (eg wear it to work or out to dinner etc). It seemed to work well.

Thats very reasonable.

I have a mate in the US who was bridesmaid, the bride chose dresses that were about $300 each and wanted the bridesmaids to pay for it, plus shoes hair and makeup. Which seemed a bit ridiculous to me

penguintroopers

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3815 on: October 21, 2017, 04:47:09 PM »
Quote

I am also weird for doing strange things like paying for my bridesmaid's dresses and the rental tuxes (I chose them, so I pay for them, right?)  etc.

You are awesome for doing that! I wish brides did not expect so much from their bridesmaids.  This summer, my sister in law was married and is a lovely person BUT she kept pressuring me to pay for make-up/up-do. I wasn't even in the wedding party.

I feel like in Australia its common for Brides to pay for bridesmaid dresses.  That's the way all my friends have done it. And then if they wanted everyone in matching shoes/jewellery they paid for those as well. And hair and makeup also covered by bride.

So one friend said she didnt mind what shoes we wore and just wanted us with plain chain/earrings so we wore what we already had. The others paid for everything. You are being invited to be part of their wedding you shouldn't have extra expenses

Us bridesmaids did pay for the bachelorette party though

That's generally how it's done in NZ also. It's becoming more common to just all wear black dresses with some accessory that's the wedding colour, and the bridesmaids just pick their own black dress style. They would probably already have something in their wardrobe. Cuts down the ridiculous costs a bit. I've seen it done really beautifully with hair pieces and flowers to add that colour. Makes the bride's dress stand out as well.

Hmm, I've heard it both ways here. I got married in 2012 and my bridesmaids paid for their dresses and shoes. But... I just said, buy a black dress that is at least knee length, black shoes that you feel comfortable wearing and wear a bit of make-up (at least lipstick). So I figured either they would have at least some of that in their wardrobe, but if not, they could choose a cheapish black dress that they could more wear out of (eg wear it to work or out to dinner etc). It seemed to work well.

Thats very reasonable.

I have a mate in the US who was bridesmaid, the bride chose dresses that were about $300 each and wanted the bridesmaids to pay for it, plus shoes hair and makeup. Which seemed a bit ridiculous to me

I overheard at work that someone is a bridesmaid and dropping over $1000 between everything- dress, hair, travel, etc.

I think my maid of honor spent the most out of my wedding party, at like $200 total, because she bought my dinner at my bachelorette party.

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3816 on: October 22, 2017, 08:16:27 PM »
That's generally how it's done in NZ also. It's becoming more common to just all wear black dresses with some accessory that's the wedding colour, and the bridesmaids just pick their own black dress style. They would probably already have something in their wardrobe. Cuts down the ridiculous costs a bit. I've seen it done really beautifully with hair pieces and flowers to add that colour. Makes the bride's dress stand out as well.

My own wedding was more than 2 decades ago, and the bridesmaids were just requested to wear hunter green dresses in a style they felt was flattering to them (they had dramatically different body types) - in the USA, though this seems to be unusual.

Zoot

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3817 on: October 23, 2017, 04:32:43 AM »
My own wedding was more than 2 decades ago, and the bridesmaids were just requested to wear hunter green dresses in a style they felt was flattering to them (they had dramatically different body types) - in the USA, though this seems to be unusual.

I did something similar at my wedding a few years ago--I just had one bridesmaid (my matron of honor) and told her to just wear a dress of her choice that was one or both of the two "wedding colors."  I would likely have done the same thing if I'd chosen to have multiple female attendants.  :)

economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3818 on: October 23, 2017, 09:33:32 AM »
I got married last month in the US and I initially asked my bridesmaids to just pick out whatever navy blue, knee length dresses they wanted (hopefully they would each already have one, or they could buy really cheap ones) and they could wear whatever shoes, jewelry, etc they wanted.  I was trying to be easy, but everyone seemed to have a problem with it.  Our moms, my DH's sister, the bridesmaids themselves, everyone made a big deal out of how I was pushing the work of choosing things onto them, and how are they supposed to know what I want, and the pictures will be ruined if one of them chooses something bad.  Ugh.  Eventually I found azazie.com that sells cheap bridesmaid dresses and I picked the fabric and length, then told them each to pick whatever dress style they wanted.  The dresses ranged from $89-$120, which were MUCH cheaper than the $300 dress I had to buy when I was a bridesmaid.  (This also seemed like a good compromise because they would all "match" but they could pick out whatever dress style looked the best for their body shape.  When I was a bridesmaid the bride picked a style that looked the best on the other bridesmaids who were all overweight and busty - I looked terrible in it because it didn't flatter me at all.)  Everyone seemed much happier with that 2nd option.  We also didn't do the whole "professional" hair and makeup thing - we just put on our own makeup and did our hair together before the ceremony. 

My bridesmaids did pay for their own attire, but the bridesmaid gifts I gave them cost essentially the same as their dresses*, and they wore shoes they already had. 

My sister is the exception, because of bad planning.  I told her multiple times that the dress company takes 9-12 weeks to make the dress after you order it.  She did not listen and decided to finally order her dress like, 4 weeks before the wedding so the $90 dress ended up costing $300 with rush-order pricing.  The dress arrived a few days before the wedding and she and my mom didn't tell me they were worried it wouldn't come in time until after it arrived.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3819 on: October 23, 2017, 10:52:15 AM »
I was trying to be easy, but everyone seemed to have a problem with it.  Our moms, my DH's sister, the bridesmaids themselves, everyone made a big deal out of how I was pushing the work of choosing things onto them, and how are they supposed to know what I want, and the pictures will be ruined if one of them chooses something bad.  Ugh. 

Sympathy with this. I stopped asking for help with anything because it was too much work managing people who had been indoctrinated in this *perfect wedding* bullshit.

I asked someone if they could please bring or make a back up cake in case my SIL had another meltdown about making the cake [requirements: one tier, less than 12 inches diameter, cake, I DGAF about anything else, I don't eat cake, you asked to make a cake so make a fucking cake]. I was then asked 20 different cake related questions about the back-up cake that no-one needed to eat (it was just going to sit on top of the stack of cupcakes and be cut - there is a cute family tradition about cutting a cake). It was exhausting. And everytime I said I DGAF, I'd get puppy dog eyes about special days and "just want it to be perfect".

Morning of the wedding, I ask someone to please move two chairs from one room to another. Cue an intervention about how to disguise the fact that these chairs were slightly different to the other chairs, calls to some chair rental company for more similar looking chairs and a man-hunt around the facility for other more suitable chairs. All done in worried hushed whispers, because people didn't know what type of chair I wanted. [The clue, of course, was that I wanted exactly what I'd asked for, which was for someone without terrible back pain to pick up the two chairs I was pointing to and move them into the next room].

I blame every Disney movie ever. And wedding planners. /rant

economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3820 on: October 23, 2017, 10:59:19 AM »


Sympathy with this. I stopped asking for help with anything because it was too much work managing people who had been indoctrinated in this *perfect wedding* bullshit.



Exactly!  I did quite a few diy things for my wedding (I hand made all of the flowers out of pages from Harry Potter!), but I did them all by myself because my family and bridesmaids all live across the country from me.  I was driving in a few days before the wedding, but I wanted to have all of that stuff done ahead of time and packed up.  They all felt like they should be helping more, but I know that if I asked them to help it would have just turned into a million questions I would have to answer and it would just be easier to do it on my own.  I only asked my MOH to do 1 thing for the wedding - plan the bachelorette party for after the rehearsal dinner.  And she didn't!  I told her I wanted to go bowling, and she told me she would handle it.  Then we were at the rehearsal dinner and my mom asked where we were going so I asked MOH and she looked like a deer in the headlights - she hadn't planned anything so we just didn't do one.   

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3821 on: October 23, 2017, 11:29:53 AM »

I overheard at work that someone is a bridesmaid and dropping over $1000 between everything- dress, hair, travel, etc.

I think my maid of honor spent the most out of my wedding party, at like $200 total, because she bought my dinner at my bachelorette party.

I have a coworker who is currently in Hawaii for a friends wedding where she is a bridesmaid. She took out a 401k loan to be able to attend. Eyelash extensions, hair, dress, travel, hotel (wedding is a three day weekend thing), and who knows what else. Her facebook feed has been full of shaved ice and guava pancakes. I will be amazed if she spent less than five grand. It's crazy.

economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3822 on: October 23, 2017, 01:00:24 PM »

I overheard at work that someone is a bridesmaid and dropping over $1000 between everything- dress, hair, travel, etc.

I think my maid of honor spent the most out of my wedding party, at like $200 total, because she bought my dinner at my bachelorette party.

I have a coworker who is currently in Hawaii for a friends wedding where she is a bridesmaid. She took out a 401k loan to be able to attend. Eyelash extensions, hair, dress, travel, hotel (wedding is a three day weekend thing), and who knows what else. Her facebook feed has been full of shaved ice and guava pancakes. I will be amazed if she spent less than five grand. It's crazy.

I feel like this is another cultural/middle class American thing.  I have a lot of friends who have gone to weddings like this (including "bachelor/bachelorette parties" that were a weekend vacation requiring everyone to fly to a destination..wtf?!)  My DH and I both come from low-income families where no one would ever dream about doing that.  He and I live across the country from our families and when we were starting to plan our wedding I really wanted to get married in the state we live in and both of our families made it very clear that if we did that our parents would be the only ones attending...not even our siblings would be able to pay to travel for our wedding (and I would have to pay for my mom).  So instead we had the expense and hassle of traveling and planning a wedding across the country from where we lived, but none of our families had to travel.  If I had suggested something like Hawaii, they would have laughed at us and said "have fun eloping."

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3823 on: October 23, 2017, 01:26:53 PM »
We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church) but everyone else had expectations and it turned into every wedding you ever went to. Oh well.

We have nothing really to complain about. Neither DW nor I had great expectations or aspirations or money. I still wish it had been a simpler thing.

DW was beautiful and we appreciate everything that was done for us all the same.

As time passed we were able to reign in the family's influence over our decisions a little i.e. we learned to put our foot down better.

Next time DW and I get married it'll be different!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3824 on: October 23, 2017, 04:38:32 PM »
We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church)

We actually pulled this off. For a few reasons there was zero interference from any family. We got married in a sweet little church that was very low key. A few rented tuxes, a gown from JC Penney, cheap brides maid dresses, and no crazy expensive parties or diners beforehand. We then invited everybody to a picnic after the church, lots of catered trays of food, and dogs and burgers, kegs of beer, coolers of soda, etc..... We thought it was a great day, and decades later, occasionally a friend, or family member, will look at one of us and say, " Ya' know, I think your wedding was the best one I ever went to"

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3825 on: October 23, 2017, 08:39:16 PM »
We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church)

We actually pulled this off. For a few reasons there was zero interference from any family. We got married in a sweet little church that was very low key. A few rented tuxes, a gown from JC Penney, cheap brides maid dresses, and no crazy expensive parties or diners beforehand. We then invited everybody to a picnic after the church, lots of catered trays of food, and dogs and burgers, kegs of beer, coolers of soda, etc..... We thought it was a great day, and decades later, occasionally a friend, or family member, will look at one of us and say, " Ya' know, I think your wedding was the best one I ever went to"
To be honest, I've had enough catered food to know that sometimes, good ol' normal food in a relaxed atmosphere with good company is a lot more enjoyable.  We had our wedding luncheon at Golden Corral!  We wanted to make sure that the many nieces and nephews had something they'd enjoy.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3826 on: October 23, 2017, 09:05:55 PM »
I blame every Disney movie ever. And wedding planners. /rant

This makes me glad I got married before there weren't as much Disney princess movies out there compared to now.  Because seriously I agree, the "Disney Princess Effect" (my own words) is a real thing when it comes to weddings.

And I never heard of wedding planners back when I got married.  Maybe it happened in some circles, but the wedding planners were typically the bride and her mother. 

gooki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3827 on: October 24, 2017, 02:31:27 AM »
Morning of the wedding, I ask someone to please move two chairs from one room to another. Cue an intervention about how to disguise the fact that these chairs were slightly different to the other chairs, calls to some chair rental company for more similar looking chairs and a man-hunt around the facility for other more suitable chairs. All done in worried hushed whispers, because people didn't know what type of chair I wanted. [The clue, of course, was that I wanted exactly what I'd asked for, which was for someone without terrible back pain to pick up the two chairs I was pointing to and move them into the next room].

I blame every Disney movie ever. And wedding planners. /rant

The chair rant is brilliant.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3828 on: October 24, 2017, 03:31:32 AM »
The chair rant is brilliant.

Thank you.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3829 on: October 24, 2017, 04:25:06 AM »
We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church)

We actually pulled this off. For a few reasons there was zero interference from any family. We got married in a sweet little church that was very low key. A few rented tuxes, a gown from JC Penney, cheap brides maid dresses, and no crazy expensive parties or diners beforehand. We then invited everybody to a picnic after the church, lots of catered trays of food, and dogs and burgers, kegs of beer, coolers of soda, etc..... We thought it was a great day, and decades later, occasionally a friend, or family member, will look at one of us and say, " Ya' know, I think your wedding was the best one I ever went to"
To be honest, I've had enough catered food to know that sometimes, good ol' normal food in a relaxed atmosphere with good company is a lot more enjoyable.  We had our wedding luncheon at Golden Corral!  We wanted to make sure that the many nieces and nephews had something they'd enjoy.

In my case catered is probably the wrong word. We had a supplier make big trays of salads, side dishes, and a sheet cake, nothing to do with typical wedding grub. Cost a couple of hundred bucks, and eliminated the burden of doing it ourselves, or relying on relatives. Golden Corral is an interesting move. I haven't been to one, but they put a new very big one in our area, and it's absolutely the most successful place in a high traffic multi-mile stretch of restaurant options. The parking lot is typically overflowing by 5PM.

Pooperman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3830 on: October 24, 2017, 08:41:20 AM »
We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church)

We actually pulled this off. For a few reasons there was zero interference from any family. We got married in a sweet little church that was very low key. A few rented tuxes, a gown from JC Penney, cheap brides maid dresses, and no crazy expensive parties or diners beforehand. We then invited everybody to a picnic after the church, lots of catered trays of food, and dogs and burgers, kegs of beer, coolers of soda, etc..... We thought it was a great day, and decades later, occasionally a friend, or family member, will look at one of us and say, " Ya' know, I think your wedding was the best one I ever went to"
To be honest, I've had enough catered food to know that sometimes, good ol' normal food in a relaxed atmosphere with good company is a lot more enjoyable.  We had our wedding luncheon at Golden Corral!  We wanted to make sure that the many nieces and nephews had something they'd enjoy.

In my case catered is probably the wrong word. We had a supplier make big trays of salads, side dishes, and a sheet cake, nothing to do with typical wedding grub. Cost a couple of hundred bucks, and eliminated the burden of doing it ourselves, or relying on relatives. Golden Corral is an interesting move. I haven't been to one, but they put a new very big one in our area, and it's absolutely the most successful place in a high traffic multi-mile stretch of restaurant options. The parking lot is typically overflowing by 5PM.

If we'd gotten married here instead of in NY, we'd have done something in a park with BBQ from a local chain as out 'catering'. That stuff is amazing!

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3831 on: October 24, 2017, 10:02:05 AM »
We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church)

We actually pulled this off. For a few reasons there was zero interference from any family. We got married in a sweet little church that was very low key. A few rented tuxes, a gown from JC Penney, cheap brides maid dresses, and no crazy expensive parties or diners beforehand. We then invited everybody to a picnic after the church, lots of catered trays of food, and dogs and burgers, kegs of beer, coolers of soda, etc..... We thought it was a great day, and decades later, occasionally a friend, or family member, will look at one of us and say, " Ya' know, I think your wedding was the best one I ever went to"
To be honest, I've had enough catered food to know that sometimes, good ol' normal food in a relaxed atmosphere with good company is a lot more enjoyable.  We had our wedding luncheon at Golden Corral!  We wanted to make sure that the many nieces and nephews had something they'd enjoy.

In my case catered is probably the wrong word. We had a supplier make big trays of salads, side dishes, and a sheet cake, nothing to do with typical wedding grub. Cost a couple of hundred bucks, and eliminated the burden of doing it ourselves, or relying on relatives. Golden Corral is an interesting move. I haven't been to one, but they put a new very big one in our area, and it's absolutely the most successful place in a high traffic multi-mile stretch of restaurant options. The parking lot is typically overflowing by 5PM.

I love this idea. If I ever get married I would love to send out family members to get trays of various foods for a "family reunion." That way we can get a little of everything and still be cheaper than buying food for a 'wedding.'

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3832 on: October 24, 2017, 10:09:42 AM »
I got married last month in the US and I initially asked my bridesmaids to just pick out whatever navy blue, knee length dresses they wanted (hopefully they would each already have one, or they could buy really cheap ones) and they could wear whatever shoes, jewelry, etc they wanted.  I was trying to be easy, but everyone seemed to have a problem with it.  Our moms, my DH's sister, the bridesmaids themselves, everyone made a big deal out of how I was pushing the work of choosing things onto them, and how are they supposed to know what I want, and the pictures will be ruined if one of them chooses something bad.  Ugh.  Eventually I found azazie.com that sells cheap bridesmaid dresses and I picked the fabric and length, then told them each to pick whatever dress style they wanted.  The dresses ranged from $89-$120, which were MUCH cheaper than the $300 dress I had to buy when I was a bridesmaid.  (This also seemed like a good compromise because they would all "match" but they could pick out whatever dress style looked the best for their body shape.  When I was a bridesmaid the bride picked a style that looked the best on the other bridesmaids who were all overweight and busty - I looked terrible in it because it didn't flatter me at all.)  Everyone seemed much happier with that 2nd option.  We also didn't do the whole "professional" hair and makeup thing - we just put on our own makeup and did our hair together before the ceremony. 

My bridesmaids did pay for their own attire, but the bridesmaid gifts I gave them cost essentially the same as their dresses*, and they wore shoes they already had. 

My sister is the exception, because of bad planning.  I told her multiple times that the dress company takes 9-12 weeks to make the dress after you order it.  She did not listen and decided to finally order her dress like, 4 weeks before the wedding so the $90 dress ended up costing $300 with rush-order pricing.  The dress arrived a few days before the wedding and she and my mom didn't tell me they were worried it wouldn't come in time until after it arrived.
This sounds a bit familiar.

I had 4 bridesmaids, and I wanted it to be cheap and easy.  So I took the 2 local ones (not my sister or SIL) with me to a fabric store.  We/they chose a very simple knee-length tank dress with jacket.  I bought all of the Navy Blue fabric, the zippers, the thread for the dress.  It was up to the bridesmaids to have them made, but they all assured me that could be done.  (My friend S's mom sews, made her wedding dress 2 years later.  My aunt made my sister's.  My MIL made my SIL's.  The only unknown was P.)

It all worked out EXCEPT for P (who got married a month after we did) - her mother could have made the dress, but P told me later (at her wedding) that she was pretty sure her mom would procrastinate.  So P hired a seamstress.  And paid $200.  I felt so bad!  I could have made her dress for her!  I wondered why I got so many questions - how long should the dress be, where should the sleeve fall, etc.  I said "whatever is more comfortable for you".  So all dresses were a bit different - my sister had a front slit, my friend S had her mom make a different jacket, my SIL had a back slit.  I didn't care that they weren't the same.

Well, at least P got use out of it.  She made her sister wear it for her wedding.  The only thing that pissed off the sister is that P was supposed to be the "fat" sister (I guess she was overweight in HS?  Never was when I knew her.)  Dress fit both of them the same.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3833 on: October 24, 2017, 10:53:42 AM »
We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church)

We actually pulled this off. For a few reasons there was zero interference from any family. We got married in a sweet little church that was very low key. A few rented tuxes, a gown from JC Penney, cheap brides maid dresses, and no crazy expensive parties or diners beforehand. We then invited everybody to a picnic after the church, lots of catered trays of food, and dogs and burgers, kegs of beer, coolers of soda, etc..... We thought it was a great day, and decades later, occasionally a friend, or family member, will look at one of us and say, " Ya' know, I think your wedding was the best one I ever went to"

I'm so envious!

We were somewhat successful at keeping costs down I think.

DW's dress was a couple hundred I think. Us guys rented tux's of course. The bridesmaids were wearing affordable dresses too I think. The modern church we ended up using was had for a small donation.

I would have been much more relaxed with a cooler of drinks/covered dish affair with music.

Our elders had certain expectations though. Must put on a nice event for the peers of our elders.

Us "youngins" didn't know what we were doing dontcha know. HAHAHA
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 10:56:55 AM by Just Joe »

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3834 on: October 25, 2017, 07:52:25 AM »
Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3835 on: October 25, 2017, 09:37:36 AM »
Hey, we're still talking about relatives and their expensive expectations... They still don't get "it" even with weddings...

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3836 on: October 25, 2017, 10:42:38 AM »
Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....
Yup. Go Orange or go home.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3837 on: October 25, 2017, 06:36:17 PM »
Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Thank christ for that.

Pooperman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3838 on: October 27, 2017, 08:04:37 AM »
Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

FiguringItOut

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3839 on: October 27, 2017, 02:38:15 PM »

My own wedding was more than 2 decades ago, and the bridesmaids were just requested to wear hunter green dresses in a style they felt was flattering to them (they had dramatically different body types) - in the USA, though this seems to be unusual.

I did the exact same thing almost 18 years ago.  And also in hunter green.
Actually, I told my bridemaids to just wear green dresses.  I didn't see any of these dresses, except my sister who was maid of honor, until the wedding day.  They all ended up in exactly the same shade of hunter green but different styles.  However, the color pulled it all together so well, that many guests didn't even realize that these were different dresses.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3840 on: October 27, 2017, 03:46:12 PM »
Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

Dollar Slice

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3841 on: October 27, 2017, 03:50:32 PM »
Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

Is that the sound it makes when people run headlong through a thread full of foam? ;-)

Pooperman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3842 on: October 27, 2017, 04:41:45 PM »
Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

Is that the sound it makes when people run headlong through a thread full of foam? ;-)

Orange is the new black box. Might need to recover it to see the crash data.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3843 on: October 28, 2017, 01:12:42 AM »
Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

Is that the sound it makes when people run headlong through a thread full of foam? ;-)

Orange is the new black box. Might need to recover it to see the crash data.

Personally, still finding the wedding relatives who don't get it a tad more interesting than the ever so clever posts about foam.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3844 on: October 28, 2017, 08:39:08 AM »
Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

Is that the sound it makes when people run headlong through a thread full of foam? ;-)

Orange is the new black box. Might need to recover it to see the crash data.

Personally, still finding the wedding relatives who don't get it a tad more interesting than the ever so clever posts about foam.
All my fiancee talks about is wedding planning. I don't come here to read about it too.

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TexasStash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3845 on: October 28, 2017, 12:58:43 PM »
I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


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paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3846 on: October 28, 2017, 04:20:41 PM »
I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


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Departed FIL owned a medium sized manufacturer of toys. Back when you could actually employ a few dozen Americans to build toys, in a big brick building, in a northeastern city. As he was becoming quite elderly, he took a luxury domestic barge of a car, and traded it in at the Buick dealer. The dealer screwed him severely, and ended up with about $12-15K more than they deserved. My BIL stepped in, and tried to mediate some of his affairs. He found out that the old guy's remaining assets, about 1/3rd of a million, had been sitting in a saving account earning essentially nothing. The FIL was stunned that anybody would suggest anything more risky than that, leading us to believe that he had probably done so for his entire life. He married into the family, late in life, so it's hard to imagine the life he could of led, and how many millions he could of left to his biological children, if he just asked one of the boys at the golf club, or some manager he found through his church, to manage his money?

Shinplaster

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3847 on: October 28, 2017, 04:55:31 PM »
I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


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Departed FIL owned a medium sized manufacturer of toys. Back when you could actually employ a few dozen Americans to build toys, in a big brick building, in a northeastern city. As he was becoming quite elderly, he took a luxury domestic barge of a car, and traded it in at the Buick dealer. The dealer screwed him severely, and ended up with about $12-15K more than they deserved. My BIL stepped in, and tried to mediate some of his affairs. He found out that the old guy's remaining assets, about 1/3rd of a million, had been sitting in a saving account earning essentially nothing. The FIL was stunned that anybody would suggest anything more risky than that, leading us to believe that he had probably done so for his entire life. He married into the family, late in life, so it's hard to imagine the life he could of led, and how many millions he could of left to his biological children, if he just asked one of the boys at the golf club, or some manager he found through his church, to manage his money?

In his defense, it sounds like he may have been old enough to be a child of the depression.  Watching the struggles their parents had, and seeing families lose everything in the market may have scared him off from ever putting money there.  It did my parents - my paternal grandparents went from moderately wealthy to pretty low middle class by the early 30's.  My parents at least had the sense to search out safe investments that gave a better return than savings accounts, but my Dad would never trust the market with their money.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3848 on: October 29, 2017, 03:17:42 AM »
I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


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Departed FIL owned a medium sized manufacturer of toys. Back when you could actually employ a few dozen Americans to build toys, in a big brick building, in a northeastern city. As he was becoming quite elderly, he took a luxury domestic barge of a car, and traded it in at the Buick dealer. The dealer screwed him severely, and ended up with about $12-15K more than they deserved. My BIL stepped in, and tried to mediate some of his affairs. He found out that the old guy's remaining assets, about 1/3rd of a million, had been sitting in a saving account earning essentially nothing. The FIL was stunned that anybody would suggest anything more risky than that, leading us to believe that he had probably done so for his entire life. He married into the family, late in life, so it's hard to imagine the life he could of led, and how many millions he could of left to his biological children, if he just asked one of the boys at the golf club, or some manager he found through his church, to manage his money?

In his defense, it sounds like he may have been old enough to be a child of the depression.  Watching the struggles their parents had, and seeing families lose everything in the market may have scared him off from ever putting money there.  It did my parents - my paternal grandparents went from moderately wealthy to pretty low middle class by the early 30's.  My parents at least had the sense to search out safe investments that gave a better return than savings accounts, but my Dad would never trust the market with their money.

My dad was born during the depression and watched his father's small business falter in the 1950s and my grandparents end up penniless.  He had his savings in a savings account but, luckily, his pension plan (teacher's pension plan) came with a dedicated financial advisor who seems pretty straight shooting and apparently isn't trying to sell my dad anything.  Since my dad trusted this guy, he put his savings into stocks and bonds and has done quite well over the last few years.  Too bad that didn't happen with your FIL.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3849 on: October 29, 2017, 09:52:42 AM »
You are correct, as near as I can tell he was born at the start of the great depression, either '29 or '30, and raised in a euro-ethnic, inner city neighborhood. The city was a steel company town, run by brutal management that considered workers to be disposable. So, nationally and at home, a lot of instability.  I can certainly understand and sympathize with his story. I have run into others like this, including the last occupants of our first fixer-upper house we moved into. They lived in a 600 sq. ft. cottage and huddled around a wood stove since they didn't want to waste money on the electric heat. They were in their eighties, and held seven figures worth of electric utility stocks.