Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 884630 times)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3250 on: July 13, 2017, 12:15:22 PM »

My perpetually broke and in-debt scumbag sibling and his meal ticket have purchased a house on a beach up in the northern hinterlands of New England. It already needs repairs. I seriously doubt either of them has anything resembling the skills needed to fix it.

Had friends who got caught up in this trap, in rural, no make that remote, coastal Maine. When it's time to sell, find a realtor and drive the sign in the yard on Memorial Day. Hear from the realtor, maybe twice a summer,  "there were a few inquiries, nothing serious though". Pull the sign up after Labor day,  since only your neighbors are driving by, and they're broke too. Rinse and repeat every summer, and hopefully, sometime in the next five or six summers you will end up taking an offer for a hell of a lot less that you "thought" it was worth. By then you are so fucking glad to be unchained that you would of taken 20-30% less than that awful number just to be free of the "dream" you once had.  Add in crushing real estate taxes, an economy that shrivels and dies after the tourists leave, epidemic drug use and poverty guaranteed to be nearby, brutal winters, and friendly neighbors (well once they get to know you, twenty, maybe thirty, years from now) and it sounds like your sibling made a wise choice...............................not really, what the hell were they thinking?

I don't think it's in Maine. Either New Hampshire or Rhode Island. Somewhere cold.

My sibling does not think. He did not think when he dropped out of high school, he did not think when he threw a temper tantrum and quit his job ten years ago, he did not think when he was hiking the Appalachian Trail and threw away his gear, he did not think when he was a career student for...God, 15 years? 20? IDK. And I seriously doubt he has ever thought about any purchase he has ever made. This house purchase is the latest in a long series of poor choices made without the benefit of applying his God-given intellect. However, my parents are joyful because their forty year old teenager has taken the adult step of purchasing a house that needs upgrades and that, should his meal ticket disappear from the equation, he has no way of affording because he has not held a job for a decade.

Now this sounds like a good story, more than fitting for the Wall of Shame and Comedy. Would you care to expand on it for our entertainment?
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BTDretire

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3251 on: July 13, 2017, 12:59:41 PM »


Obama - smokes, drinks, supports gay and women's rights... WORST MUSLIM EVER!

 Ya, maybe not,
 You probably don't have a TV and missed the news about the Muslims that burned a man alive in a cage or the ones the beheaded infidels. /s/

You know that Christians have also done that stuff, right? Heard of the Inquisition? And even at the time of the Inquisition, they did not represent ALL Christians.
Let's compare what what Christians and Muslims are doing today,
I'm living today. Yes, it is not all.

solon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3252 on: July 13, 2017, 01:07:14 PM »


Obama - smokes, drinks, supports gay and women's rights... WORST MUSLIM EVER!

 Ya, maybe not,
 You probably don't have a TV and missed the news about the Muslims that burned a man alive in a cage or the ones the beheaded infidels. /s/

You know that Christians have also done that stuff, right? Heard of the Inquisition? And even at the time of the Inquisition, they did not represent ALL Christians.
Let's compare what what Christians and Muslims are doing today,
I'm living today. Yes, it is not all.

No. Take this religio-political garbage somewhere else. You're spoiling a lot of people's fun here. Knock it off. All of you.

rbuck

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3253 on: July 13, 2017, 01:13:54 PM »
Where to start with my family. I've got stories for days.

My sister who had one child at the time drove a Yukon. Note her husband had a truck so there was no need for a large SUV. Well when she was pregnant with her second kid she thought the Yukon was going to small and got a larger Nissan Armada.

Growing up we didn't have a lot of money but my Mom wanted to buy a new couch. Nothing wrong with the old one but it was time for a change according to her. My stepdad said that we didn't have the money at the time and that the credit cards were maxed out. So while he was on the road working she asked my Grandfather to buy the couch for her. When my stepdad got home she wouldn't let him sit in it because it was "her" couch.

marielle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3254 on: July 13, 2017, 01:56:56 PM »
My sister who had one child at the time drove a Yukon. Note her husband had a truck so there was no need for a large SUV. Well when she was pregnant with her second kid she thought the Yukon was going to small and got a larger Nissan Armada.

7 seats for four people, two of which are tiny. Makes perfect sense.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3255 on: July 14, 2017, 12:54:48 AM »
My sister who had one child at the time drove a Yukon. Note her husband had a truck so there was no need for a large SUV. Well when she was pregnant with her second kid she thought the Yukon was going to small and got a larger Nissan Armada.

7 seats for four people, two of which are tiny. Makes perfect sense.
I've got it on fairly good authority that no pregnant woman feels tiny. There's apparently something about the 24x7 sensation of one's innards exploding that makes a person desire space.
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Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3256 on: July 14, 2017, 04:14:37 AM »
Growing up we didn't have a lot of money but my Mom wanted to buy a new couch. Nothing wrong with the old one but it was time for a change according to her. My stepdad said that we didn't have the money at the time and that the credit cards were maxed out. So while he was on the road working she asked my Grandfather to buy the couch for her. When my stepdad got home she wouldn't let him sit in it because it was "her" couch.

The idea of an adult going to a parent to replace a perfectly serviceable piece of furniture and then having the audacity to claim that their partner mayn't sit on it because it is "hers". Fantastic. It does conjure up a mental image of the poor partner having to sit on the floor like a bad dog because the "old" couch has been thrown out. I'd struggle if that were my relationship and our values were so different.

Warlord1986

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3257 on: July 14, 2017, 06:47:47 AM »

My perpetually broke and in-debt scumbag sibling and his meal ticket have purchased a house on a beach up in the northern hinterlands of New England. It already needs repairs. I seriously doubt either of them has anything resembling the skills needed to fix it.

Had friends who got caught up in this trap, in rural, no make that remote, coastal Maine. When it's time to sell, find a realtor and drive the sign in the yard on Memorial Day. Hear from the realtor, maybe twice a summer,  "there were a few inquiries, nothing serious though". Pull the sign up after Labor day,  since only your neighbors are driving by, and they're broke too. Rinse and repeat every summer, and hopefully, sometime in the next five or six summers you will end up taking an offer for a hell of a lot less that you "thought" it was worth. By then you are so fucking glad to be unchained that you would of taken 20-30% less than that awful number just to be free of the "dream" you once had.  Add in crushing real estate taxes, an economy that shrivels and dies after the tourists leave, epidemic drug use and poverty guaranteed to be nearby, brutal winters, and friendly neighbors (well once they get to know you, twenty, maybe thirty, years from now) and it sounds like your sibling made a wise choice...............................not really, what the hell were they thinking?

I don't think it's in Maine. Either New Hampshire or Rhode Island. Somewhere cold.

My sibling does not think. He did not think when he dropped out of high school, he did not think when he threw a temper tantrum and quit his job ten years ago, he did not think when he was hiking the Appalachian Trail and threw away his gear, he did not think when he was a career student for...God, 15 years? 20? IDK. And I seriously doubt he has ever thought about any purchase he has ever made. This house purchase is the latest in a long series of poor choices made without the benefit of applying his God-given intellect. However, my parents are joyful because their forty year old teenager has taken the adult step of purchasing a house that needs upgrades and that, should his meal ticket disappear from the equation, he has no way of affording because he has not held a job for a decade.

Now this sounds like a good story, more than fitting for the Wall of Shame and Comedy. Would you care to expand on it for our entertainment?

My then 18-year-old brother decided he wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail. Fine, said Daddy. It'll be good for you. I'll outfit you with gear. Here's a LL Bean catalog.

So we drop him off along the trail and wave goodbye. A few weeks later we get a call. He needs money. Daddy asks why.

Sibling got tired of hiking, hitched a ride with some people he met, and left all his stuff on the side of the road.

cavewoman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3258 on: July 14, 2017, 07:29:12 AM »
My mom used to REALLY not get it, and waste all her money on drugs, drinking, and getting married (5 times to 4 men in 10 years?).

About 15 years ago, she cleaned up and has at least held a job steadily.  7 years ago she married a man from Louisiana.  They bought a house 5 years ago, and all seemed well.

Until, StepDad (SD) lost his job.  He was working for a lumber yard, and apparently told the owner to F*ck off regarding some delivery he didn't want to do.  Well that's ok, he was getting old and it was hard to do that job anyway.  He'll just apply for disability.  (This was 5 years ago... and it's well known that the process for disability can be very long and drawn out, even for people who truly cannot work anymore.  Not the case for SD, I mean I don't doubt that his back was no longer cut out for lifting wood, but the man could have gotten a job)

But still, I thought things would be OK.  My mom had a steady job, and their mortgage payment was about $400.  They still went out to eat and smoked and had full cable package, so things couldn't be that bad, right?

Would I be here if that were so?

My mom and I don't talk much, but in a recent conversation she revealed to me that they had just stopped paying when SD lost his job.  But no worries, because they got approved for a HUD relief program and that is going to kick in, and plus SD's disability is finally going through next month.  The biggest kicker was the reason she tried to give for not paying: "Well, our mortgage company was changed 5 times and 4 years and we were just jerked around"

Well, mom, I'm pretty sure when the company changes you just send your check to the new address, but OK, I'm not gonna get into that with you, not a chance. 

SD also says he is "helping" my dad out with his rental properties, but in reality my dad pays SD because he feels sorry for them and then later bitches about how little work SD actually gets done.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3259 on: July 14, 2017, 08:59:03 AM »
ftp://My sibling does not think. He did not think when he dropped out of high school, he did not think when he threw a temper tantrum and quit his job ten years ago, he did not think when he was hiking the Appalachian Trail and threw away his gear, he did not think when he was a career student for...God, 15 years? 20? IDK. And I seriously doubt he has ever thought about any purchase he has ever made. This house purchase is the latest in a long series of poor choices made without the benefit of applying his God-given intellect. However, my parents are joyful because their forty year old teenager has taken the adult step of purchasing a house that needs upgrades and that, should his meal ticket disappear from the equation, he has no way of affording because he has not held a job for a decade.

Now this sounds like a good story, more than fitting for the Wall of Shame and Comedy. Would you care to expand on it for our entertainment?

My then 18-year-old brother decided he wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail. Fine, said Daddy. It'll be good for you. I'll outfit you with gear. Here's a LL Bean catalog.

So we drop him off along the trail and wave goodbye. A few weeks later we get a call. He needs money. Daddy asks why.

Sibling got tired of hiking, hitched a ride with some people he met, and left all his stuff on the side of the road.

I was thinking it was a euphemistic "hiking the Appalachian trail" a la Mark Sanford. That was funny, this is just ridiculous and sad.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3260 on: July 14, 2017, 10:30:33 AM »
My sister who had one child at the time drove a Yukon. Note her husband had a truck so there was no need for a large SUV. Well when she was pregnant with her second kid she thought the Yukon was going to small and got a larger Nissan Armada.
Ah, the Nissan Armada.  A vehicle whose name appropriately describes its dimensions.  See also the Ford Expedition.

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3261 on: July 14, 2017, 11:22:30 AM »
My sister who had one child at the time drove a Yukon. Note her husband had a truck so there was no need for a large SUV. Well when she was pregnant with her second kid she thought the Yukon was going to small and got a larger Nissan Armada.
Ah, the Nissan Armada.  A vehicle whose name appropriately describes its dimensions.  See also the Ford Expedition.
Also has one of the highest total cost to own of any vehicle.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/research/cars-with-the-highest-ownership-costs/ss-BBhO9n6#image=11

rbuck

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3262 on: July 14, 2017, 02:06:07 PM »
Growing up we didn't have a lot of money but my Mom wanted to buy a new couch. Nothing wrong with the old one but it was time for a change according to her. My stepdad said that we didn't have the money at the time and that the credit cards were maxed out. So while he was on the road working she asked my Grandfather to buy the couch for her. When my stepdad got home she wouldn't let him sit in it because it was "her" couch.

The idea of an adult going to a parent to replace a perfectly serviceable piece of furniture and then having the audacity to claim that their partner mayn't sit on it because it is "hers". Fantastic. It does conjure up a mental image of the poor partner having to sit on the floor like a bad dog because the "old" couch has been thrown out. I'd struggle if that were my relationship and our values were so different.

Well the relationship tended to be somewhat amicable with long periods of ignoring one another. Then came the yelling and slapping each other, so you wanted them to start ignoring each other again. Eventually he no longer had to deal with the relationship, unfortunately it came about because the authorities discovered he was transporting more than just produce to California on a weekly basis.

nouveauRiche

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3263 on: July 14, 2017, 04:44:12 PM »
unfortunately it came about because the authorities discovered he was transporting more than just produce to California on a weekly basis.

What else?  Meat and diary?  ;)

Why were they short on money then?

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3264 on: July 14, 2017, 09:46:10 PM »
Growing up we didn't have a lot of money but my Mom wanted to buy a new couch. Nothing wrong with the old one but it was time for a change according to her. My stepdad said that we didn't have the money at the time and that the credit cards were maxed out. So while he was on the road working she asked my Grandfather to buy the couch for her. When my stepdad got home she wouldn't let him sit in it because it was "her" couch.

The idea of an adult going to a parent to replace a perfectly serviceable piece of furniture and then having the audacity to claim that their partner mayn't sit on it because it is "hers". Fantastic. It does conjure up a mental image of the poor partner having to sit on the floor like a bad dog because the "old" couch has been thrown out. I'd struggle if that were my relationship and our values were so different.

Well the relationship tended to be somewhat amicable with long periods of ignoring one another. Then came the yelling and slapping each other, so you wanted them to start ignoring each other again. Eventually he no longer had to deal with the relationship, unfortunately it came about because the authorities discovered he was transporting more than just produce to California on a weekly basis.
I was under the impression that transporting produce to CA is frowned upon.  I seem to remember being stopped at a checkpoint on our way into CA (from NV) and being asked if we were carrying produce.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3265 on: July 14, 2017, 09:49:48 PM »
Growing up we didn't have a lot of money but my Mom wanted to buy a new couch. Nothing wrong with the old one but it was time for a change according to her. My stepdad said that we didn't have the money at the time and that the credit cards were maxed out. So while he was on the road working she asked my Grandfather to buy the couch for her. When my stepdad got home she wouldn't let him sit in it because it was "her" couch.

The idea of an adult going to a parent to replace a perfectly serviceable piece of furniture and then having the audacity to claim that their partner mayn't sit on it because it is "hers". Fantastic. It does conjure up a mental image of the poor partner having to sit on the floor like a bad dog because the "old" couch has been thrown out. I'd struggle if that were my relationship and our values were so different.

Well the relationship tended to be somewhat amicable with long periods of ignoring one another. Then came the yelling and slapping each other, so you wanted them to start ignoring each other again. Eventually he no longer had to deal with the relationship, unfortunately it came about because the authorities discovered he was transporting more than just produce to California on a weekly basis.
I was under the impression that transporting produce to CA is frowned upon.  I seem to remember being stopped at a checkpoint on our way into CA (from NV) and being asked if we were carrying produce.

Indeed, those checkpoints are there. I never had anything with me, so wasn't an issue.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3266 on: July 15, 2017, 07:27:43 AM »
Growing up we didn't have a lot of money but my Mom wanted to buy a new couch. Nothing wrong with the old one but it was time for a change according to her. My stepdad said that we didn't have the money at the time and that the credit cards were maxed out. So while he was on the road working she asked my Grandfather to buy the couch for her. When my stepdad got home she wouldn't let him sit in it because it was "her" couch.

The idea of an adult going to a parent to replace a perfectly serviceable piece of furniture and then having the audacity to claim that their partner mayn't sit on it because it is "hers". Fantastic. It does conjure up a mental image of the poor partner having to sit on the floor like a bad dog because the "old" couch has been thrown out. I'd struggle if that were my relationship and our values were so different.

Well the relationship tended to be somewhat amicable with long periods of ignoring one another. Then came the yelling and slapping each other, so you wanted them to start ignoring each other again. Eventually he no longer had to deal with the relationship, unfortunately it came about because the authorities discovered he was transporting more than just produce to California on a weekly basis.
I was under the impression that transporting produce to CA is frowned upon.  I seem to remember being stopped at a checkpoint on our way into CA (from NV) and being asked if we were carrying produce.

Indeed, those checkpoints are there. I never had anything with me, so wasn't an issue.

I haven't heard of this, why is bringing produce into CA a no-no? I mean, California is where a lot of produce is grown so I guess I wouldn't see the point as you can likely buy fresh stuff there.

cavewoman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3267 on: July 15, 2017, 07:46:13 AM »
I think the issue is more with potential diseases and pests that can travel in - we wouldn't want to ruin the fruit basket of the US!

I remember the first time I came into California when I moved here - I was so nervous when I got stopped, had no idea what they were looking for, and I had some apples and oranges from the hotel breakfast!  They still let me in, though :)

Chesleygirl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3268 on: July 15, 2017, 06:09:35 PM »
Maybe I should, but I don't feel sorry for people who spend money like drunken sailors and then wind up broke.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3269 on: July 15, 2017, 07:35:49 PM »
one of my earliest childhood memories. Driving cross country with the family, we were stopped at the California border and asked if we had any fruits or nuts. As it happened we had just bought a big bag of beautiful cherries. They wouldn't let us bring them in, so we parked just outside California and ate all the cherries. It took us quite a while.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3270 on: July 15, 2017, 11:01:18 PM »
I remember the first time I came into California when I moved here - I was so nervous when I got stopped, had no idea what they were looking for, and I had some apples and oranges from the hotel breakfast!  They still let me in, though :)

one of my earliest childhood memories. Driving cross country with the family, we were stopped at the California border and asked if we had any fruits or nuts. As it happened we had just bought a big bag of beautiful cherries. They wouldn't let us bring them in, so we parked just outside California and ate all the cherries. It took us quite a while.

This whole time, I thought we were using "produce" as a euphemism for another sort of plant.  I'll be a monkey's uncle!

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3271 on: July 16, 2017, 06:56:37 AM »

Now this sounds like a good story, more than fitting for the Wall of Shame and Comedy. Would you care to expand on it for our entertainment?

My then 18-year-old brother decided he wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail. Fine, said Daddy. It'll be good for you. I'll outfit you with gear. Here's a LL Bean catalog.

So we drop him off along the trail and wave goodbye. A few weeks later we get a call. He needs money. Daddy asks why.

Sibling got tired of hiking, hitched a ride with some people he met, and left all his stuff on the side of the road.

It's actually a pretty well-known phenomenon with people enamored with through-hiking the AT without sufficient experience. Gear up heavily, and realize they either can't make it with that heavy of a gear load (ditching stuff along the way and continuing) or can't make it at all and ditch everything.

I've heard that the Georgia section is a good place to pick up free gear in the spring....
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TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3272 on: July 16, 2017, 06:57:29 AM »
one of my earliest childhood memories. Driving cross country with the family, we were stopped at the California border and asked if we had any fruits or nuts. As it happened we had just bought a big bag of beautiful cherries. They wouldn't let us bring them in, so we parked just outside California and ate all the cherries. It took us quite a while.

Happened to us at the Canadian border. Brought some nice home-grown cherry tomatoes to share with our friends getting married up in Canada. Ended up eating them all...
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TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3273 on: July 16, 2017, 07:13:01 AM »
And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

He's saying he is penalized on the financial aid because his family did the right thing and saved money instead of blowing it on stupid shit. It is a good point, and one of the inherent problems with "means testing". I suppose one way around it is to liquidate your accounts and buy gold a couple years before your kids start filling out college forms?
If you still have space, just Roth it all. Most colleges don't count retirement accounts, and you can access the contributions if you need it.
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cavewoman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3274 on: July 16, 2017, 08:21:11 AM »
I remember the first time I came into California when I moved here - I was so nervous when I got stopped, had no idea what they were looking for, and I had some apples and oranges from the hotel breakfast!  They still let me in, though :)

one of my earliest childhood memories. Driving cross country with the family, we were stopped at the California border and asked if we had any fruits or nuts. As it happened we had just bought a big bag of beautiful cherries. They wouldn't let us bring them in, so we parked just outside California and ate all the cherries. It took us quite a while.

This whole time, I thought we were using "produce" as a euphemism for another sort of plant.  I'll be a monkey's uncle!

Erm, I didn't write it, but part of the reason I was nervous is because I had a personal amount of that other "produce"!  It was in the trunk jammed with all my life's possessions. (young and dumb.  just dumb.  but yeah)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3275 on: July 16, 2017, 12:06:56 PM »
When my youngest daughter was born, I must have asked her fairy godmother to bless her by making her the opposite of her ill-tempered, workshy tightwad father, because she's always been the most delightful kid ever, she has a tremendous work ethic, and she's very generous but if she had a superpower it would be finding pointless crap to spend her money on. Her room is shelf upon shelf of scented candles, bath bombs, trinkets and cosmetics, most of it untouched.

She'll be going to college in September.

She has recently started to suffer from an allergy, almost certainly to the house dust mite.

I saw an opportunity. "You can change your bedding and vacuum the floor as much as you like, but it's pointless when your room is lined with shelves of dust magnets," I said. "Would you like me to help you to sell some of it? It'll make your room easier to clean properly and it'll give you some extra money for when you go to college."

"NO! It's MINE!" she wailed.

I'll give her time to think about it, and then warn her that any tchotchke that's left when she goes to college is fair game for a yard sale.



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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3276 on: July 16, 2017, 12:43:23 PM »
When my youngest daughter was born, I must have asked her fairy godmother to bless her by making her the opposite of her ill-tempered, workshy tightwad father, because she's always been the most delightful kid ever, she has a tremendous work ethic, and she's very generous but if she had a superpower it would be finding pointless crap to spend her money on. Her room is shelf upon shelf of scented candles, bath bombs, trinkets and cosmetics, most of it untouched.

She'll be going to college in September.

She has recently started to suffer from an allergy, almost certainly to the house dust mite.

I saw an opportunity. "You can change your bedding and vacuum the floor as much as you like, but it's pointless when your room is lined with shelves of dust magnets," I said. "Would you like me to help you to sell some of it? It'll make your room easier to clean properly and it'll give you some extra money for when you go to college."

"NO! It's MINE!" she wailed.

I'll give her time to think about it, and then warn her that any tchotchke that's left when she goes to college is fair game for a yard sale.

Wow!  I think that's pretty fair solution!  You aren't just tossing her stuff like she doesn't matter, but you aren't going to let her use your house like a free climate-controlled storage facility!   I'm curious: will you let her keep some things in a "safe zone", like a big plastic bin or something?  Two things from my own college experience:
1. I completely abused my parents good will and used their house (well my old room) as storage for waaaay too long . . . like 8 years after I graduated.  :-(   They didn't seem to care (repeatedly said they didn't) but that just was very unmotivating to sort through it all.  They totally could have had that room as usable space if I hadn't been so selfish.  They STILL don't use it very much, but at least it's not my "fault".
2.  But!  It was very helpful to have storage for my winter clothes  while I lived in a tiny shared dorm room.  And I am grateful I was able to keep old books and fragile things I *definitely* wanted to keep but did NOT want to haul back and forth 4 times a year (must vacate dorms completely before/after summer semesters).  And valuable things that I felt uncomfortable leaving out in a dorm room that wasn't locked half the time and had my roomie's friends, whom I didn't know, going in and out at will.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 12:45:20 PM by Ann »

TartanTallulah

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3277 on: July 16, 2017, 03:50:53 PM »
When my youngest daughter was born, I must have asked her fairy godmother to bless her by making her the opposite of her ill-tempered, workshy tightwad father, because she's always been the most delightful kid ever, she has a tremendous work ethic, and she's very generous but if she had a superpower it would be finding pointless crap to spend her money on. Her room is shelf upon shelf of scented candles, bath bombs, trinkets and cosmetics, most of it untouched.

She'll be going to college in September.

She has recently started to suffer from an allergy, almost certainly to the house dust mite.

I saw an opportunity. "You can change your bedding and vacuum the floor as much as you like, but it's pointless when your room is lined with shelves of dust magnets," I said. "Would you like me to help you to sell some of it? It'll make your room easier to clean properly and it'll give you some extra money for when you go to college."

"NO! It's MINE!" she wailed.

I'll give her time to think about it, and then warn her that any tchotchke that's left when she goes to college is fair game for a yard sale.

Wow!  I think that's pretty fair solution!  You aren't just tossing her stuff like she doesn't matter, but you aren't going to let her use your house like a free climate-controlled storage facility!   I'm curious: will you let her keep some things in a "safe zone", like a big plastic bin or something?  Two things from my own college experience:
1. I completely abused my parents good will and used their house (well my old room) as storage for waaaay too long . . . like 8 years after I graduated.  :-(   They didn't seem to care (repeatedly said they didn't) but that just was very unmotivating to sort through it all.  They totally could have had that room as usable space if I hadn't been so selfish.  They STILL don't use it very much, but at least it's not my "fault".
2.  But!  It was very helpful to have storage for my winter clothes  while I lived in a tiny shared dorm room.  And I am grateful I was able to keep old books and fragile things I *definitely* wanted to keep but did NOT want to haul back and forth 4 times a year (must vacate dorms completely before/after summer semesters).  And valuable things that I felt uncomfortable leaving out in a dorm room that wasn't locked half the time and had my roomie's friends, whom I didn't know, going in and out at will.

I'm not going to turf her out and remove every trace. Her room will remain her room until she has a home of her own that isn't just a rented room in college. But I want to be able to let guests use the room when she isn't here, and I want to be able to keep it clean, and I can't do that if there are racks of lipsticks and a million Yankee Candles all over the place. And the clothes and shoes and bags ... and the sunk cost, from a near-minimum wage income.

It's not a priority. At least the little'un keeps her belongings tidy most of the time. Her older sister moved out last month, also not to a permanent new home, and her room is like a landfill site. I hardly know where to begin. And we only tidied and cleaned it for her a year ago. She's a good illustration of how people gravitate back to their comfortable level of clutter.





paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3278 on: July 17, 2017, 05:08:17 AM »

Her older sister moved out last month, also not to a permanent new home, and her room is like a landfill site. I hardly know where to begin. And we only tidied and cleaned it for her a year ago. She's a good illustration of how people gravitate back to their comfortable level of clutter.

We had a daughter who would leave enough crap on the floor that eventually you couldn't see the rug. Her mother and I fought with her for far too long on this issue. Then I just started gathering everything she refused to pick up, in a wash basket, and tossing it all over the front yard. At first she was horrified, since the other little PITA princesses in her posse could literally see her dirty laundry as the school bus stopped out front.  Eventually her sense of defiance took over, and this no longer worked, as she went from "how could you this to me?" to "I don't care". One day, I was heading out for dog shit clean-up duty and had a brilliant idea. I grab a basket of her stuff off the floor and carefully covered each large pile of Golden Retriever shit with a clothing item. When she returned I told her

" I decided to have a dog shit Easter egg hunt. The objective is to find the hidden dog shit, and I'm pretty sure you will be the winner if you check under all your clothes. Oh, and you might want to wash everything, with all those stains and that unpleasant shit smell. Oh, and I know you're really pissed now, but since you still want to play games, be aware that the next level of escalation is, from now on, if you leave ANYTHING on the floor, it's going in the trash, and I don't give a shit if it's a stick of gum, or a laptop.  You want to play that game?"

That's the true story of how our little piglet started behaving like a human and decided that her room was not a dumpster.

Feivel2000

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3279 on: July 17, 2017, 06:15:54 AM »

Her older sister moved out last month, also not to a permanent new home, and her room is like a landfill site. I hardly know where to begin. And we only tidied and cleaned it for her a year ago. She's a good illustration of how people gravitate back to their comfortable level of clutter.

We had a daughter who would leave enough crap on the floor that eventually you couldn't see the rug. Her mother and I fought with her for far too long on this issue. Then I just started gathering everything she refused to pick up, in a wash basket, and tossing it all over the front yard. At first she was horrified, since the other little PITA princesses in her posse could literally see her dirty laundry as the school bus stopped out front.  Eventually her sense of defiance took over, and this no longer worked, as she went from "how could you this to me?" to "I don't care". One day, I was heading out for dog shit clean-up duty and had a brilliant idea. I grab a basket of her stuff off the floor and carefully covered each large pile of Golden Retriever shit with a clothing item. When she returned I told her

" I decided to have a dog shit Easter egg hunt. The objective is to find the hidden dog shit, and I'm pretty sure you will be the winner if you check under all your clothes. Oh, and you might want to wash everything, with all those stains and that unpleasant shit smell. Oh, and I know you're really pissed now, but since you still want to play games, be aware that the next level of escalation is, from now on, if you leave ANYTHING on the floor, it's going in the trash, and I don't give a shit if it's a stick of gum, or a laptop.  You want to play that game?"

That's the true story of how our little piglet started behaving like a human and decided that her room was not a dumpster.
We'll, I am sure that you won't win the world parenting award with this story.


Warlord1986

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3280 on: July 17, 2017, 08:06:24 AM »

Her older sister moved out last month, also not to a permanent new home, and her room is like a landfill site. I hardly know where to begin. And we only tidied and cleaned it for her a year ago. She's a good illustration of how people gravitate back to their comfortable level of clutter.

We had a daughter who would leave enough crap on the floor that eventually you couldn't see the rug. Her mother and I fought with her for far too long on this issue. Then I just started gathering everything she refused to pick up, in a wash basket, and tossing it all over the front yard. At first she was horrified, since the other little PITA princesses in her posse could literally see her dirty laundry as the school bus stopped out front.  Eventually her sense of defiance took over, and this no longer worked, as she went from "how could you this to me?" to "I don't care". One day, I was heading out for dog shit clean-up duty and had a brilliant idea. I grab a basket of her stuff off the floor and carefully covered each large pile of Golden Retriever shit with a clothing item. When she returned I told her

" I decided to have a dog shit Easter egg hunt. The objective is to find the hidden dog shit, and I'm pretty sure you will be the winner if you check under all your clothes. Oh, and you might want to wash everything, with all those stains and that unpleasant shit smell. Oh, and I know you're really pissed now, but since you still want to play games, be aware that the next level of escalation is, from now on, if you leave ANYTHING on the floor, it's going in the trash, and I don't give a shit if it's a stick of gum, or a laptop.  You want to play that game?"

That's the true story of how our little piglet started behaving like a human and decided that her room was not a dumpster.

You sound mentally unbalanced.


[MOD NOTE: A little more constructive criticism, please]
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 06:03:34 PM by FrugalToque »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3281 on: July 17, 2017, 08:14:34 AM »

Her older sister moved out last month, also not to a permanent new home, and her room is like a landfill site. I hardly know where to begin. And we only tidied and cleaned it for her a year ago. She's a good illustration of how people gravitate back to their comfortable level of clutter.

We had a daughter who would leave enough crap on the floor that eventually you couldn't see the rug. Her mother and I fought with her for far too long on this issue. Then I just started gathering everything she refused to pick up, in a wash basket, and tossing it all over the front yard. At first she was horrified, since the other little PITA princesses in her posse could literally see her dirty laundry as the school bus stopped out front.  Eventually her sense of defiance took over, and this no longer worked, as she went from "how could you this to me?" to "I don't care". One day, I was heading out for dog shit clean-up duty and had a brilliant idea. I grab a basket of her stuff off the floor and carefully covered each large pile of Golden Retriever shit with a clothing item. When she returned I told her

" I decided to have a dog shit Easter egg hunt. The objective is to find the hidden dog shit, and I'm pretty sure you will be the winner if you check under all your clothes. Oh, and you might want to wash everything, with all those stains and that unpleasant shit smell. Oh, and I know you're really pissed now, but since you still want to play games, be aware that the next level of escalation is, from now on, if you leave ANYTHING on the floor, it's going in the trash, and I don't give a shit if it's a stick of gum, or a laptop.  You want to play that game?"

That's the true story of how our little piglet started behaving like a human and decided that her room was not a dumpster.
We'll, I am sure that you won't win the world parenting award with this story.
I'm in awe though, because in this particular case and for this particular kid, it worked. The "nice parent" approach of asking nicely, then escalating through the stages of giving a direct order, or withholding privileges, or handing out punishment, clearly didn't work for that one but the doggie doo hunt did.
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ducky19

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3282 on: July 17, 2017, 08:28:43 AM »
My dad's post on Facebook this morning: "I keep hearing people talk about what they're going to do when they retire. I'm gonna have to work right up to lunch on the day of my funeral."

This from the man who retired a year ago, then went back to work at Harbor Freight because he was scared at how fast he was burning through his inheritance. He and mom are going to Alaska for a cruise and tour for their 50th anniversary this week. Not saying they don't deserve it, but this has been their way for as long as I can remember; spend every dime you make, then complain about how broke you are and how Social Security doesn't pay nearly enough. I love them both dearly, but it's hard to watch/listen to. The only like this received was from my mom.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3283 on: July 17, 2017, 08:31:01 AM »

Her older sister moved out last month, also not to a permanent new home, and her room is like a landfill site. I hardly know where to begin. And we only tidied and cleaned it for her a year ago. She's a good illustration of how people gravitate back to their comfortable level of clutter.

We had a daughter who would leave enough crap on the floor that eventually you couldn't see the rug. Her mother and I fought with her for far too long on this issue. Then I just started gathering everything she refused to pick up, in a wash basket, and tossing it all over the front yard. At first she was horrified, since the other little PITA princesses in her posse could literally see her dirty laundry as the school bus stopped out front.  Eventually her sense of defiance took over, and this no longer worked, as she went from "how could you this to me?" to "I don't care". One day, I was heading out for dog shit clean-up duty and had a brilliant idea. I grab a basket of her stuff off the floor and carefully covered each large pile of Golden Retriever shit with a clothing item. When she returned I told her

" I decided to have a dog shit Easter egg hunt. The objective is to find the hidden dog shit, and I'm pretty sure you will be the winner if you check under all your clothes. Oh, and you might want to wash everything, with all those stains and that unpleasant shit smell. Oh, and I know you're really pissed now, but since you still want to play games, be aware that the next level of escalation is, from now on, if you leave ANYTHING on the floor, it's going in the trash, and I don't give a shit if it's a stick of gum, or a laptop.  You want to play that game?"

That's the true story of how our little piglet started behaving like a human and decided that her room was not a dumpster.

You sound mentally unbalanced.

Thanks for the nice comment and personal attack. Please read the rules here, and understand that you violated them. Then refrain from doing so again, please.

I have no interest in the whole "participation trophy" and lets all fawn over out little snowflakes, style of parenting. She made a decision to openly defy basic standards of decency, and any reasonable attempt to get her to respect her parents, and the beautiful, huge, single room she was provided with, which was decorated to her tastes, and outfitted with anything she wanted. She was not physically harmed in any way, nor abused. It was an escalating series of events, until it was made quite clear that the next step was the disposal of anything she failed to value, and left on the floor.

If you really want to get your panties in a twist, I'll give you another example of the horror of parenting. As  junior in high school, my son was quite capable of high honors with almost no effort, and had a history of doing so. He then decided that dressing like a rapper, smoking dope and blowing off school were all worthy pursuits. A lot of his life was spent ignoring his parents, while locked in his room. Once his door was removed, he started to snap out of it a bit. Once he was given a preview of his next few months of life in our house, including no gangster clothes, nothing but a mattress and desk in his room, no transportation to anything but school, no cell phone, etc... suddenly, he had a coming to Jesus moment, and removed his head from his ass, and started to excel again. He later pulled nearly the exact same shit, half way through a very successful, fully parent funded ride, including a car, at a state university. Two factors helped him right the ship. First, his girlfriend told him it was over if he didn't grow up, stop partying with "The Dudes" , quit the drugs, and get serious, and his parents told him that he either stopped his shit immediately, or he was on his own, no money, no support. Oddly enough, once again he rapidly got his shit together. He now is a very successful engineer who manufacturers his own line of heavy construction equipment at 27 YO, and manages 50-90 employees in a heavy construction company. 

Your right, as a parent I really fucked up. Probably due to some sort of mental illness. Glad you pointed it out.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 08:40:48 AM by paddedhat »

Cyanne

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3284 on: July 17, 2017, 09:29:48 AM »
Paddlehat, you're my hero. I also have a child who treated my house like a garbage can when she was a teenager. Unfortunately, we didn't have a dog. I picked up all of her clothes and items off the floor (which we had purchased for her) and told her if she wanted them back she could buy them at garage sale prices. She bought most of it back and the rest that she chose not to buy was donated. This was after having asked multiple times and telling her that if she didn't pick up her things there would be consequences.

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3285 on: July 17, 2017, 09:30:32 AM »
paddedhat, you are my hero.

if my girls ever act like yours did, or like your son did, i shall have to take either the low road or the paddedhat road.
If I genuinely enjoy my profession and workplace, is there a reason to FIRE? Keep Calm and Carry On Milking.

Warlord1986

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3286 on: July 17, 2017, 10:09:55 AM »

Her older sister moved out last month, also not to a permanent new home, and her room is like a landfill site. I hardly know where to begin. And we only tidied and cleaned it for her a year ago. She's a good illustration of how people gravitate back to their comfortable level of clutter.

We had a daughter who would leave enough crap on the floor that eventually you couldn't see the rug. Her mother and I fought with her for far too long on this issue. Then I just started gathering everything she refused to pick up, in a wash basket, and tossing it all over the front yard. At first she was horrified, since the other little PITA princesses in her posse could literally see her dirty laundry as the school bus stopped out front.  Eventually her sense of defiance took over, and this no longer worked, as she went from "how could you this to me?" to "I don't care". One day, I was heading out for dog shit clean-up duty and had a brilliant idea. I grab a basket of her stuff off the floor and carefully covered each large pile of Golden Retriever shit with a clothing item. When she returned I told her

" I decided to have a dog shit Easter egg hunt. The objective is to find the hidden dog shit, and I'm pretty sure you will be the winner if you check under all your clothes. Oh, and you might want to wash everything, with all those stains and that unpleasant shit smell. Oh, and I know you're really pissed now, but since you still want to play games, be aware that the next level of escalation is, from now on, if you leave ANYTHING on the floor, it's going in the trash, and I don't give a shit if it's a stick of gum, or a laptop.  You want to play that game?"

That's the true story of how our little piglet started behaving like a human and decided that her room was not a dumpster.

You sound mentally unbalanced.

Thanks for the nice comment and personal attack. Please read the rules here, and understand that you violated them. Then refrain from doing so again, please.

I have no interest in the whole "participation trophy" and lets all fawn over out little snowflakes, style of parenting. She made a decision to openly defy basic standards of decency, and any reasonable attempt to get her to respect her parents, and the beautiful, huge, single room she was provided with, which was decorated to her tastes, and outfitted with anything she wanted. She was not physically harmed in any way, nor abused. It was an escalating series of events, until it was made quite clear that the next step was the disposal of anything she failed to value, and left on the floor.

If you really want to get your panties in a twist, I'll give you another example of the horror of parenting. As  junior in high school, my son was quite capable of high honors with almost no effort, and had a history of doing so. He then decided that dressing like a rapper, smoking dope and blowing off school were all worthy pursuits. A lot of his life was spent ignoring his parents, while locked in his room. Once his door was removed, he started to snap out of it a bit. Once he was given a preview of his next few months of life in our house, including no gangster clothes, nothing but a mattress and desk in his room, no transportation to anything but school, no cell phone, etc... suddenly, he had a coming to Jesus moment, and removed his head from his ass, and started to excel again. He later pulled nearly the exact same shit, half way through a very successful, fully parent funded ride, including a car, at a state university. Two factors helped him right the ship. First, his girlfriend told him it was over if he didn't grow up, stop partying with "The Dudes" , quit the drugs, and get serious, and his parents told him that he either stopped his shit immediately, or he was on his own, no money, no support. Oddly enough, once again he rapidly got his shit together. He now is a very successful engineer who manufacturers his own line of heavy construction equipment at 27 YO, and manages 50-90 employees in a heavy construction company. 

Your right, as a parent I really fucked up. Probably due to some sort of mental illness. Glad you pointed it out.

It wasn't a personal attack, it was an observation of your bizarre over-reaction and disregard for another person's belongings. I'm glad your children turned out ok.

My panties are not in a twist and I have no idea what relevance participation trophies and special snowflakes have to this. But I do have a parent with diagnosed mental health problems, and she behaves in much the same way you do. Including throwing tantrums and the destruction of other people's things.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3287 on: July 17, 2017, 10:28:23 AM »

Her older sister moved out last month, also not to a permanent new home, and her room is like a landfill site. I hardly know where to begin. And we only tidied and cleaned it for her a year ago. She's a good illustration of how people gravitate back to their comfortable level of clutter.

We had a daughter who would leave enough crap on the floor that eventually you couldn't see the rug. Her mother and I fought with her for far too long on this issue. Then I just started gathering everything she refused to pick up, in a wash basket, and tossing it all over the front yard. At first she was horrified, since the other little PITA princesses in her posse could literally see her dirty laundry as the school bus stopped out front.  Eventually her sense of defiance took over, and this no longer worked, as she went from "how could you this to me?" to "I don't care". One day, I was heading out for dog shit clean-up duty and had a brilliant idea. I grab a basket of her stuff off the floor and carefully covered each large pile of Golden Retriever shit with a clothing item. When she returned I told her

" I decided to have a dog shit Easter egg hunt. The objective is to find the hidden dog shit, and I'm pretty sure you will be the winner if you check under all your clothes. Oh, and you might want to wash everything, with all those stains and that unpleasant shit smell. Oh, and I know you're really pissed now, but since you still want to play games, be aware that the next level of escalation is, from now on, if you leave ANYTHING on the floor, it's going in the trash, and I don't give a shit if it's a stick of gum, or a laptop.  You want to play that game?"

That's the true story of how our little piglet started behaving like a human and decided that her room was not a dumpster.

You sound mentally unbalanced.

Thanks for the nice comment and personal attack. Please read the rules here, and understand that you violated them. Then refrain from doing so again, please.

I have no interest in the whole "participation trophy" and lets all fawn over out little snowflakes, style of parenting. She made a decision to openly defy basic standards of decency, and any reasonable attempt to get her to respect her parents, and the beautiful, huge, single room she was provided with, which was decorated to her tastes, and outfitted with anything she wanted. She was not physically harmed in any way, nor abused. It was an escalating series of events, until it was made quite clear that the next step was the disposal of anything she failed to value, and left on the floor.

If you really want to get your panties in a twist, I'll give you another example of the horror of parenting. As  junior in high school, my son was quite capable of high honors with almost no effort, and had a history of doing so. He then decided that dressing like a rapper, smoking dope and blowing off school were all worthy pursuits. A lot of his life was spent ignoring his parents, while locked in his room. Once his door was removed, he started to snap out of it a bit. Once he was given a preview of his next few months of life in our house, including no gangster clothes, nothing but a mattress and desk in his room, no transportation to anything but school, no cell phone, etc... suddenly, he had a coming to Jesus moment, and removed his head from his ass, and started to excel again. He later pulled nearly the exact same shit, half way through a very successful, fully parent funded ride, including a car, at a state university. Two factors helped him right the ship. First, his girlfriend told him it was over if he didn't grow up, stop partying with "The Dudes" , quit the drugs, and get serious, and his parents told him that he either stopped his shit immediately, or he was on his own, no money, no support. Oddly enough, once again he rapidly got his shit together. He now is a very successful engineer who manufacturers his own line of heavy construction equipment at 27 YO, and manages 50-90 employees in a heavy construction company. 

Your right, as a parent I really fucked up. Probably due to some sort of mental illness. Glad you pointed it out.

It wasn't a personal attack, it was an observation of your bizarre over-reaction and disregard for another person's belongings. I'm glad your children turned out ok.

My panties are not in a twist and I have no idea what relevance participation trophies and special snowflakes have to this. But I do have a parent with diagnosed mental health problems, and she behaves in much the same way you do. Including throwing tantrums and the destruction of other people's things.
I didn't see it as an overreaction or a disregard for another person's belongings. It was an escalation of events that lead to some clothes needing washed. Nothing was destroyed, and as far as I'm concerned (and the law in my locality, for that matter), teenagers don't have belongings. It all belongs to their parents, regardless of where the money to purchase it came from. People under 18 cannot own property.

Warlord1986

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3288 on: July 17, 2017, 10:39:22 AM »
Dog poop can indeed ruin clothes, depending on the fabric.

Where the hell do you live that people under 18 cannot own property, that I can make certain to never visit such a place? When I was 18, I owned several thousands of dollars and I would have laughed myself sick had someone told me it wasn't mine.

rbuck

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3289 on: July 17, 2017, 10:50:03 AM »
Growing up we didn't have a lot of money but my Mom wanted to buy a new couch. Nothing wrong with the old one but it was time for a change according to her. My stepdad said that we didn't have the money at the time and that the credit cards were maxed out. So while he was on the road working she asked my Grandfather to buy the couch for her. When my stepdad got home she wouldn't let him sit in it because it was "her" couch.

The idea of an adult going to a parent to replace a perfectly serviceable piece of furniture and then having the audacity to claim that their partner mayn't sit on it because it is "hers". Fantastic. It does conjure up a mental image of the poor partner having to sit on the floor like a bad dog because the "old" couch has been thrown out. I'd struggle if that were my relationship and our values were so different.

Well the relationship tended to be somewhat amicable with long periods of ignoring one another. Then came the yelling and slapping each other, so you wanted them to start ignoring each other again. Eventually he no longer had to deal with the relationship, unfortunately it came about because the authorities discovered he was transporting more than just produce to California on a weekly basis.
I was under the impression that transporting produce to CA is frowned upon.  I seem to remember being stopped at a checkpoint on our way into CA (from NV) and being asked if we were carrying produce.

He was a long-haul truck driver and worked for a guy that had a small farm  some chicken houses (also apparently some meth houses). There was some vegetables that grew better in our area that was sold in CA. That being said maybe the meth sales were needed to make the trip viable.

economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3290 on: July 17, 2017, 11:22:23 AM »
I remember a few months back on this thread (or maybe a different similar thread) someone mentioned that they went to HuHot and their MIL ordered an appetizer, and then couldn't understand why it was a waste of money.  A few weeks later SO and I went to HuHot and I told him the story and we both got quite a good laugh out of it. 

Last week his siblings all came to visit and stay with us and on their first night here they wanted to go to HuHot.  As soon as the waitress came over they proceeded to order not one, not two, but 3 appetizers.  Each of which cost as much as the all you can eat buffet price.  My SO didn't say anything, but he gave me a very annoyed look.  Luckily they didn't insist on just splitting the cost this time, and we each only paid for what we ordered.  However, it was a very good indication of the kind of food spending they insisted on for the rest of the week.
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mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3291 on: July 17, 2017, 11:57:50 AM »

Her older sister moved out last month, also not to a permanent new home, and her room is like a landfill site. I hardly know where to begin. And we only tidied and cleaned it for her a year ago. She's a good illustration of how people gravitate back to their comfortable level of clutter.

We had a daughter who would leave enough crap on the floor that eventually you couldn't see the rug. Her mother and I fought with her for far too long on this issue. Then I just started gathering everything she refused to pick up, in a wash basket, and tossing it all over the front yard. At first she was horrified, since the other little PITA princesses in her posse could literally see her dirty laundry as the school bus stopped out front.  Eventually her sense of defiance took over, and this no longer worked, as she went from "how could you this to me?" to "I don't care". One day, I was heading out for dog shit clean-up duty and had a brilliant idea. I grab a basket of her stuff off the floor and carefully covered each large pile of Golden Retriever shit with a clothing item. When she returned I told her

" I decided to have a dog shit Easter egg hunt. The objective is to find the hidden dog shit, and I'm pretty sure you will be the winner if you check under all your clothes. Oh, and you might want to wash everything, with all those stains and that unpleasant shit smell. Oh, and I know you're really pissed now, but since you still want to play games, be aware that the next level of escalation is, from now on, if you leave ANYTHING on the floor, it's going in the trash, and I don't give a shit if it's a stick of gum, or a laptop.  You want to play that game?"

That's the true story of how our little piglet started behaving like a human and decided that her room was not a dumpster.
We'll, I am sure that you won't win the world parenting award with this story.
I'm in awe though, because in this particular case and for this particular kid, it worked. The "nice parent" approach of asking nicely, then escalating through the stages of giving a direct order, or withholding privileges, or handing out punishment, clearly didn't work for that one but the doggie doo hunt did.
+1

It doesn't sound like he *started* with the excessive stuff.  I mean for me - we don't have a dog.  I'd just straight up start with the trash.  As a teenager - it's not her house.  It's not her "stuff", it was provided by her parents.  And there's a certain level of decency that must be maintained in a household.  You are living by someone else's rules.

And same with the later issues with the son.  Kids push their parents.  They push boundaries.  That's almost their job, really, as they are growing and finding out who they really are.  It's our job, as parents, to let them know what is acceptable and what is not.  Fine, you want to smoke dope and be a thug and waste my money at college?  You are on your own.

It's a balance though, and each family will set a different tone.  I had a coworker once, who was chatting with me about her college-aged daughter, who was home for the summer.  The daughter had told her mother: "I'm going to go to the doc this summer and go on the pill".  Daughter was 20 at the time.  Mother said "if you are adult enough to be having sex, then you can pay your own way through school."

Now, I felt this was an overreaction and I told her so.  Mom was traditional, somewhat conservative, lovely lady who grew up in China.  She asked me for the reason why I felt it was an overreaction.  I listed these for her:
- she graduated HS at 17
- she goes to an Ivy league school.  Gets almost straight A's.  Does volunteer work.
- she works, and she buys her own plane tickets home
- she's a model daughter, model student.
- it's only sex.  And she's being responsible about it!

Now, I'm about 10 years younger than my coworker and about 12-15 years older than the daughter, and the coworker said "wait, did YOU have sex in college?"
Apparently all of a sudden it was okay because I turned out ok.

(Long story short - too late! Daughter is an MD now, married with a kid.)

On the flip side, I have a sister who was late to accept adulthood, was really into growing and smoking pot back when it wasn't legal anywhere.  And her kids are also late to really grow up and such.  My niece is finally getting back on her feet after some rough patches with addiction.  And she's got a GoFundMe going for some schooling to teach yoga.  I've noticed that her friends have donated, and family have not.  Particularly, her mother has not.  Which is pretty telling.  You can do your best as parents to teach your kids the right path.  At some point, they make their own decisions.  My niece is well into her 30's.  If you need a few thousand bucks, save up for a year.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 12:09:04 PM by mm1970 »

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3292 on: July 17, 2017, 12:09:33 PM »
Dog poop can indeed ruin clothes, depending on the fabric.

Where the hell do you live that people under 18 cannot own property, that I can make certain to never visit such a place? When I was 18, I owned several thousands of dollars and I would have laughed myself sick had someone told me it wasn't mine.
Laugh all you want, but in Ohio your parents legally own you and everything you make/earn until you are 18. You can't own land. You can't be the only name on the title for a car. Most banks won't even let you have an account without an adult co-signer. You can't own shit until you're an adult.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3293 on: July 17, 2017, 12:13:53 PM »
Dog poop can indeed ruin clothes, depending on the fabric.

Where the hell do you live that people under 18 cannot own property, that I can make certain to never visit such a place? When I was 18, I owned several thousands of dollars and I would have laughed myself sick had someone told me it wasn't mine.
Laugh all you want, but in Ohio your parents legally own you and everything you make/earn until you are 18. You can't own land. You can't be the only name on the title for a car. Most banks won't even let you have an account without an adult co-signer. You can't own shit until you're an adult.
Hell, thy even have the right to legally revoke your driver's license. It's explicitly stated in the Revised Code regarding teen licensing. The only teenagers that "own" anything, do so out of the good will of their parents.

Warlord1986

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3294 on: July 17, 2017, 12:16:11 PM »
Good to see the trend of nothing useful coming out of Ohio continues.

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3295 on: July 17, 2017, 12:17:49 PM »
Dog poop can indeed ruin clothes, depending on the fabric.

Where the hell do you live that people under 18 cannot own property, that I can make certain to never visit such a place? When I was 18, I owned several thousands of dollars and I would have laughed myself sick had someone told me it wasn't mine.

Laugh all you want, but in Ohio your parents legally own you and everything you make/earn until you are 18. You can't own land. You can't be the only name on the title for a car. Most banks won't even let you have an account without an adult co-signer. You can't own shit until you're an adult.

I was gifted a small amount of land when I was 5 or 6 years old, I think. Title in my name. Ohio sounds terrible.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3296 on: July 17, 2017, 12:19:08 PM »
Dog poop can indeed ruin clothes, depending on the fabric.

Where the hell do you live that people under 18 cannot own property, that I can make certain to never visit such a place? When I was 18, I owned several thousands of dollars and I would have laughed myself sick had someone told me it wasn't mine.

Laugh all you want, but in Ohio your parents legally own you and everything you make/earn until you are 18. You can't own land. You can't be the only name on the title for a car. Most banks won't even let you have an account without an adult co-signer. You can't own shit until you're an adult.

I was gifted a small amount of land when I was 5 or 6 years old, I think. Title in my name. Ohio sounds terrible.
Somebody can set up for you to own land or property or whatever once you're 18, and there are some previsions they can take to make it difficult for parents to access it, but it's still unavailable until the kid turns 18.

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Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3297 on: July 17, 2017, 12:24:20 PM »
Actually what he did with the son is what is often recommended by counselors dealing with teenagers. Now the daughter and the dog poop-ugh!  That could have been dealt with differently. However, as a former SW we saw people that beat their kids, etc.  We would have not intervened in a case like the dog poop.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3298 on: July 17, 2017, 12:25:55 PM »

It wasn't a personal attack, it was an observation of your bizarre over-reaction and disregard for another person's belongings. I'm glad your children turned out ok.

My panties are not in a twist and I have no idea what relevance participation trophies and special snowflakes have to this. But I do have a parent with diagnosed mental health problems, and she behaves in much the same way you do. Including throwing tantrums and the destruction of other people's things.

Sorry, but you DO NOT get to accuse someone of having mental health problems, then say, "It wasn't a personal attack", it very much is, and it's not acceptable in the least. You and another poster have an interesting concept of the value of a dependent child's belongings, and how they are violated by a parent crossing some imaginary line. We are talking about a stubborn, defiant fourteen year old here, not a budding pre-adult with a job,  spending money, and possessions purchased with THEIR hard earned dollars. We are taking about a kid who just enjoyed a back to school shopping trip, on mom's dime, and leaves her new clothes strewn all over her room, while walking all over them, since she is too fucking lazy to pick them up.

This was our one kid that was like breaking a wild horse. By the time she was fourteen she was told that she needed to be involved with something constructive with her time, and was not going to be spending her summer on the couch texting friends. It could be sports, a job of some sort, from being a junior counselor for one of the many local camps for little kids, to volunteering anywhere, but not being a couch potato. She ignored us, and mistakenly believed that she would do whatever the hell she wanted to do with her time. We warned her a few times, then volunteered her as a library helper. She spent four hours a day, most week days of the summer break, with a smock on, putting books away. She hated every minute of it, and probably hated both of us too. Care factor on our part, about her deep resentment for forcing her to do this? ZERO..... She tried the same shit the next summer, and her mom drove her on a route every week, to ask for, and return, employment applications for a summer job. Finally, after six or seven weeks of this, a local grocery store hired her. . Three years later, she graduates from high school and announces that she is quitting her job to spend the summer "hanging with her friends". By now this shit is getting really old, but I calmly explain how reality works. I inform her that she is not only NOT, quitting her job, but she is working at least 30+ hours a week, since that's how we roll in this family. In the end, she spent a total of 6-7 years with that grocery store chain, making up to $10k a year, while in high school and university, learned a ton of valuable skills, and always had money in her pocket. Had we not rode her hard, she wouldn't of EVER had a job before getting here degree.  At no point did any of this handling of a difficult child involve anything close to tantrums or destroying anything. You want a car, insurance, a paid education, and a lot of things that many other kids would only dream of, keep up your end of the agreement. It's that simple. They both knew my word is rock solid, and if I say, "your shit will be in the garbage next time", or "you better get your act together, or it's the last check I mail to your school or landlord", it means exactly that.

Your opinion that my behavior is bizarre and involves tantrums is strictly that, it is not based on any first hand knowledge. Sorry you had a difficult childhood, but don't equate what I did, with somebody with real mental issues who does things that I don't do.

Warlord1986

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3299 on: July 17, 2017, 12:34:09 PM »
Dude, the wall of text about how great a parent you are is not changing my mind. You covered a kid's clothes with dog poop. That's sick.