Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 789726 times)

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3150 on: June 27, 2017, 02:29:51 PM »
I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

My mother visits her mother twice a year for three days at a time. She wants me to visit her every month. I've now moved to the same city and she's all up in my business. We have had a tense relationship in the past and it's slowly getting better now I've set some very firm boundaries, but if she wants me to have a better relationship with her than she has with her mother, she's going to need to give me a reason. My grandmother is a lovely person - I'm sure the two of them have some historic beef just the same way I have with my mother, but do unto others, right?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3151 on: June 27, 2017, 02:31:40 PM »
Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.
The money is not stuck.  You or your parents will just owe taxes on the earnings and possibly penalties if you withdraw it for non-school expenses.  I say possibly on the penalties because one of the exception to the "not-school-related" 10% additional tax is "kid got a scholarship".
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mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3152 on: June 27, 2017, 02:56:53 PM »
Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.
The money is not stuck.  You or your parents will just owe taxes on the earnings and possibly penalties if you withdraw it for non-school expenses.  I say possibly on the penalties because one of the exception to the "not-school-related" 10% additional tax is "kid got a scholarship".

Ok, no, it is not stuck--but I do have to pay an additional 10% tax on any earnings--and thats after the normal gains taxes.

Also, I'm graduated with no student loan debt and don't plan right now on going back to school. So it is effectively stuck unless I want to take the additoinal 10% hit.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3153 on: June 27, 2017, 03:09:55 PM »

Regarding the name calling (Lazy) and obnoxious response by the in-laws. I put up with a similar response when we switched homes, to better accommodate our young kids and recently disabled wife. Simply put, the new home didn't suit my mom's concept of "moving up" and she decided the way to handle it was to be a snarky bitch. This was followed by two other uncalled for unpleasant comments in the following months. The DW and I handled it well. We  gave her the cold shoulder for a few months, until she decided she needed to "confront" us on why she was being treated so poorly. I then laid out that we were now on the Golden Rule program, and if she had anything nasty to say, she could either keep her pie hole shut, or expect to be shown the door. We treat others with dignity and respect and expect the same of her. If she chose to be nasty, she wasn't welcomed to be part of our lives. She was stunned by the fact that her own son called her out on her bullshit, but it completely stopped the problem. 

You're stuck with the inlaws, but IMHO, hell would freeze over before they called me lazy, and were not quickly educated on the fact that they have crossed the line, and will regret ever doing it again.

Good for you! 

It took several equally blunt discussions between my mom and I to get her behavior to be acceptable.  Never got past acceptable because she just couldn't let her preconceptions go.   And I mean to her dying day.  Literally.

Wow, I couldn't of written your reply to the letter.  It's weird, my step dad died in 2003, and I still miss him. Logic says that I should feel the same way about dear old mom,  but dealing with somebody who was a controlling pain in the ass, doesn't creating an everlasting longing, after they're gone. It's a strange cocktail of sadness, regret and relief.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3154 on: June 27, 2017, 04:13:49 PM »
I think that sometimes parents forget that their kids have become adults and still treat them like kids. My Mom had a controlling MIL so she never told any of us what to do as adults unless we asked. i am following that rule too. I want my adult kids to want to be around me.  Some of these posts are really sad.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3155 on: June 27, 2017, 07:12:53 PM »
I think that sometimes parents forget that their kids have become adults and still treat them like kids. My Mom had a controlling MIL so she never told any of us what to do as adults unless we asked. i am following that rule too. I want my adult kids to want to be around me.  Some of these posts are really sad.

One of my aunts treats me like I am 15.  For this and a few other reasons I have largely cut off contact with her.  In many ways I am lucky she lives out of the country and there is no chance of regular contact.  I have nearly decided that she will never be welcome in my home as there is a better than 50% chance she will be highly disrespectful to me (honestly unintentionally on her part) and it would end what little tolerance I have for her.  You can only give allowance for someone else having good intentions for so long before you have to look at the pure content of there actions.

Between my aunt and an ex GF I have learned that someone can love you, legitimately want the best for you and even work towards what they think is good for you but still not be a positive influence in your life. 

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kelvin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3156 on: June 28, 2017, 12:53:54 PM »
I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

My parents don't visit their elders! Maybe twice a year. Sure "there's always a room open" for them, but they never use it. But for me it's expected that I visit regularly, and my parents count the weeks in between visits, like some sort of pining lover. It's ridiculous.

Cassie I am so jealous of your kids. Dad's gotten better since he remarried - I love my stepmom, she's great for him, and she has an entire herd of grandchildren to keep him busy. Even so, for the first 6 years of their marriage there was the constant refrain of "it's different when it's not your own grandkids" as if somehow being surrounded by people who loved him made him lonely. (Neither my brother nor I have children, or intend to soon.)

I guess I'm just frustrated that I'm somehow responsible for my parent's feelings, and we all know how well emotions + money go together.

Proud Foot

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3157 on: June 28, 2017, 01:47:02 PM »
The 529 legitimately fucked me for financial aid. Now, I wasn't really screwed because my parents and I had saved, but I could have had free money, but the 529 worked against me. Because I was responsible, I didn't get financial aid. Wonderful.

(Financial aid meaning scholarships, not loans)
Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.
Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.
The money is not stuck.  You or your parents will just owe taxes on the earnings and possibly penalties if you withdraw it for non-school expenses.  I say possibly on the penalties because one of the exception to the "not-school-related" 10% additional tax is "kid got a scholarship".

Ok, no, it is not stuck--but I do have to pay an additional 10% tax on any earnings--and thats after the normal gains taxes.

Also, I'm graduated with no student loan debt and don't plan right now on going back to school. So it is effectively stuck unless I want to take the additoinal 10% hit.

This seems like it would fit in the "OP doesn't see it" thread. Yes the leftover money being "stuck" does suck but I don't really feel bad about the fact that you and your parents worked hard and planned ahead to have money set aside for your education. Especially as you still were able to graduate debt free. Sounds to me like that scholarship money was able to be given to someone who had financial need. And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3158 on: June 28, 2017, 01:58:02 PM »
And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

He's saying he is penalized on the financial aid because his family did the right thing and saved money instead of blowing it on stupid shit. It is a good point, and one of the inherent problems with "means testing". I suppose one way around it is to liquidate your accounts and buy gold a couple years before your kids start filling out college forms?
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mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3159 on: June 28, 2017, 02:07:20 PM »
And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

He's saying he is penalized on the financial aid because his family did the right thing and saved money instead of blowing it on stupid shit. It is a good point, and one of the inherent problems with "means testing".

Yes, this.

TaraB

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3160 on: June 28, 2017, 02:33:40 PM »
My quasi-adopted brother J has been "part of the family" for over 10 years. He's close with my mom and my brother (and was close with my deceased step-dad). We consider him and his wife A part of the family.

J did a stint in prison before we knew him, which affected his employability. At some point he went on disability, somewhat legitimately because of ongoing back surgeries (blah blah I don't know the details). He does dog training and odd jobs on the side. J and A got together in 2013 ish. Eventually he moved out of his parents' house (at age 40) and into her rented apartment. They bought a house together, got knocked up and married at the end of 2014. But since his income is limited/under the table, they bought the house on her salary alone. Modest 3 BR, nice yard for their 3 large dogs. Close to her work (10 minutes). As soon as A got pregnant they had to lease a top of the line minivan, in addition to their top of the line Ford Escape (which replaced a short-lived top-of-the-line Chevy Avalanche)......I can only imagine what their car payments must look like.

J has to have the newest iPhone the second it comes out. He has the Apple watch (not sure if he has upgraded). Baby 1 required a schmancy video system so they could live-stream him....sleeping in his crib? A reigns him in on a lot of things, she coupons and shops Aldi and has some good frugal bones. J's parents continue to subsidize his lifestyle (it's their 5th grandbaby, they only have 1 5th grandbaby). J also likes to go to Atlantic City and gamble.......

Fast forward to early 2017. A is knocked up again (on purpose). J gets in his head from his realtor best friend that they should buy a rental property with a down payment from J's parents. Somehow this morphs into J's parents buying a newer, bigger house for J and A and the babies and they'll rent out the modest appropriate 3 br house. In a town that has little industry and subsists on tourist income. But not in a tourist area. ("But J's parents helped buy J's older brother a house! They should also buy J a house!" meanwhile they're in their 70s and would rather be doing retiree things...)

New house is wayyyyyy bigger. (I saw it this weekend for baby 1's birthday). Also wayyyy further from A's work. Keep in mind, she is the salaried one with the health insurance. They just moved in last week, and A is due with baby 2 at the end of July. Obviously since the house is so much bigger, J's parents have to buy them more stuff!!! A fence for the pool! A dining room table! A fancy umbrella for their outdoor patio!

Nevermind that J bought his 2 year old a huge monstrosity Jeep toddler bed that the kid is too afraid to sleep in.

I walked around that house and I looked at one room and all I could think is "What is the purpose of this room?? that's the dining room over there, what is the functional purpose of this damn room?!?" (Baby playroom, natch).

New fancy house required J's parents to supply the down payment. They also must keep their old house rented out (and are probably barely breaking even). And her commute is too long to come home and see her baby/ies at lunch.

As I've watched this, I can't help but think that she's going to start hiding money from him so that she can divorce him and take the kids in a few years.

(Sidebar- when my stepdad died, J was the one who said he would come mow my mom's lawn at 2 in the morning if she needed it.....he is there for her even more than my own brother sometimes, but I'm thankful we're not ACTUALLY related because my family is much different with money).

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3161 on: June 28, 2017, 03:17:43 PM »
I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

My parents don't visit their elders! Maybe twice a year.

Exactly my point. Your parents are trying the old do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do trick. You don't need to fall for it.

I do think you should point the discrepancy out to them. It will either (a) get them to back off, or (b) nudge them into a little more of the kind of filial behavior they're trying to demand from you, which will take up at least some of their time and attention so as to get the pressure off of you.
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Sydneystache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3162 on: June 28, 2017, 03:56:25 PM »
@TaraB whatever did she see in him?

TaraB

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3163 on: June 29, 2017, 06:08:36 AM »
@TaraB whatever did she see in him?

He can be really sweet, and he IS a good guy, he just spends wayyyyy beyond his means and always will. (There's also a biological clock factor- she's 36 ish about to pop out baby #2.)

Guava

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3164 on: July 03, 2017, 08:12:56 PM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3165 on: July 03, 2017, 08:20:05 PM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...
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mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3166 on: July 03, 2017, 08:41:28 PM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

Grow house...

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3167 on: July 04, 2017, 12:28:59 AM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

DH has moved his computer to our unheated basement shop.  He usually needs a small electric heater / fan unit, but with the computer in there (and after he had to add extra cooling to it for over heating), he quipped that all he needs to do is run a bit coin mining operation and he would have free heat for the winter...   

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3168 on: July 04, 2017, 08:24:43 AM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

DH has moved his computer to our unheated basement shop.  He usually needs a small electric heater / fan unit, but with the computer in there (and after he had to add extra cooling to it for over heating), he quipped that all he needs to do is run a bit coin mining operation and he would have free heat for the winter...

I was about to research and do some math to work out the ROI of bitcoin mining vs a grow house but I figured doing the latter (even on Freedom Day) might not be smart.
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Guava

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3169 on: July 04, 2017, 11:28:31 AM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

Grow house...

They blame it solely on their 17 year old. Now that kid might be coin mining, but the parents definitely aren't. Also not a grow house, but that could solve their money problems.

Part of the problem is it's a log cabin with high ceilings and almost no insulation, but if they aren't running the air that doesn't matter. My guess is the 2 100 gallon saltwater fish tanks. And the son's gaming as a contributing factor.

infogoon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3170 on: July 05, 2017, 08:32:07 AM »
I heard a story long ago of a higher ed systems administrator who brought home a few decommissioned VAX minicomputers from work and started running a cluster in his garage to play around with; the hardware threw so much heat that the DEA showed up, thinking that the heat plumes from an outbuilding just had to be a grow op.

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3171 on: July 05, 2017, 09:17:49 AM »
Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

Grow house...

They blame it solely on their 17 year old. Now that kid might be coin mining, but the parents definitely aren't. Also not a grow house, but that could solve their money problems.

Part of the problem is it's a log cabin with high ceilings and almost no insulation, but if they aren't running the air that doesn't matter. My guess is the 2 100 gallon saltwater fish tanks. And the son's gaming as a contributing factor.
That must be some gaming rig.  To put things in perspective, I'm a gamer, but only have my computer on when I'm home, and I use AC, and my electric bill was $40 last month.  Although last month, I had the thermostat lower than I normally do, because I was sick and more sensitive to temperature.  Last year I was $30-35 during the summer.

Rosbif

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3172 on: July 05, 2017, 02:39:29 PM »
snip

List of excuses to get the parents off my back:

snip

"You need to buy/rent a place with a guest room." "...I hate having houseguests?" I honestly don't have a good quip for this one yet.

"I murdered the last three guests and the clean-up just takes hours, I'd rather have my evenings free"

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3173 on: July 05, 2017, 03:18:11 PM »
My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3174 on: July 05, 2017, 03:25:58 PM »
My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

A picture of the receipt?  I cant imagine having to show proof of price to my parent to get paid back for something.  If I go get supplies for parents store I will hand them the receipts for there books and they will typically round up the cost when paying me back for my troubles.
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Rowellen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3175 on: July 05, 2017, 03:34:32 PM »
No. MIL is the stingy bastard here.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3176 on: July 05, 2017, 03:37:25 PM »
Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

It is kind of annoying, but do you really want to be the ones to nickel and dime them? You make it sound like the incidents are pretty far apart, rather than them trying to get a few bucks every time you see them.

It depends on the rest of the relationship, as well. We covered something big for my ILs that DH never requested back. However, when we visit them, we get free room and board, and now that we fly in, even a car for just the price of gas.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3177 on: July 05, 2017, 03:42:13 PM »
Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

It is kind of annoying, but do you really want to be the ones to nickel and dime them? You make it sound like the incidents are pretty far apart, rather than them trying to get a few bucks every time you see them.

It depends on the rest of the relationship, as well. We covered something big for my ILs that DH never requested back. However, when we visit them, we get free room and board, and now that we fly in, even a car for just the price of gas.

Of the view that parents should not short change their kids in this manner... amongst other things, it sets a really poor. example.

Like...you wouldn't pay the duty free shop $170 after agreeing to $176...

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3178 on: July 05, 2017, 03:49:02 PM »
My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

A picture of the receipt?  I cant imagine having to show proof of price to my parent to get paid back for something.  If I go get supplies for parents store I will hand them the receipts for there books and they will typically round up the cost when paying me back for my troubles.

It's always interesting reading about different family cultures. It obviously all varies on the family dynamic, but unless it was a recurring thing, we'd have just bought the item and told parents "Don't worry about it." ... and then half the time my mom would try and sneak the money into say the glovebox without me noticing.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3179 on: July 05, 2017, 03:59:18 PM »
He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

A picture of the receipt?  I cant imagine having to show proof of price to my parent to get paid back for something.  If I go get supplies for parents store I will hand them the receipts for there books and they will typically round up the cost when paying me back for my troubles.

This is exactly what I just said to Marty in a text! If I do any shopping for my parents, my mum will always round up when she pays me back and say, "You do a lot for me and I'm sure I owe you money for something."

To clarify, they didn't ask for a copy of the receipt but he's had enough odd money dealings with his parents to reinforce the need for transparency.
Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

It is kind of annoying, but do you really want to be the ones to nickel and dime them?

No, which is why I'm not raising it with them.


Of the view that parents should not short change their kids in this manner... amongst other things, it sets a really poor example.


Thank you!
It's always interesting reading about different family cultures. It obviously all varies on the family dynamic, but unless it was a recurring thing, we'd have just bought the item and told parents "Don't worry about it." ... and then half the time my mom would try and sneak the money into say the glovebox without me noticing.

Husband travels 40+ times a year and they expect souvenirs or ask for expensive perfume or aftershave from duty-free. It would cost us thousands of dollars each year if we just paid for it ourselves.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3180 on: July 05, 2017, 04:11:33 PM »
My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

What's to stop you from texting MIL back:

Hey, MIL! I saw the transfer for the item hit our account, and wanted to let you know it looks like the bank transfer made a mistake. I just noticed this, but the amount should be $176.35 and the transfer was only $176.00. Whenever you get a chance to get the balance of $6.35 to us is great and I'll let you know as soon as it goes through! Thanks! :)

I would debate the idea that it isn't enough to bring up with her if this is a repeating pattern. She then knows she can get away with this crap because she's trained y'all to just ignore it when she short changes you. What is needed is developing a polite spine: Call it out, infer it likely was a mistake made by some third party so she has some plausible deniability for being a stingy short-changing jerk, and keep it light and breezy. But the big thing: if you feel she is taking advantage of you, CALL HER OUT EVERY SINGLE TIME. Politely, nicely, but firmly. 

And the other thing is to seriously consider just not putting yourself in the position of buying things for her to be paid back. I would pose the idea that being up front about the reason - that she isn't good about paying you back the full amount or taking into account your extra expenses and you feel taken advantage of, so to keep from feeding any resentment on your part, better to just not do this sort of thing any more. Or if this is too forthright, tell her you won't have time, you forgot, whatever. This part really, REALLY should come from your husband (her child) because it's his mother that is taking advantage of you both.

I would also consider if you are getting other benefits or otherwise have a great relationship with her, maybe this is that one stupid annoying thing that you are completely, 100% justified in being cheesed off about, but chalk it up to her being a dummy and let it slide if you otherwise are close and loving. Like with the furniture situation... it technically is on you if you don't ask for gas money, then she may just not have thought of it. But you also could reframe the errand as a labor of love - because you care about her, you're doing her a kindness.

But from the latest explanations you just posted, your husband really needs to stop buying things for his parents at all with the expectations that they might pay you back 95% of the amount. The reasons behind the need for receipts and allowing them to place undue obligations... sounds like he's twisted up in the idea of family and duty and letting them take advantage just due to blood ties. That's screwy and he might want to do some thinking on how to set appropriate boundaries and developing the ability to call his parents when they do take undue advantage.
I frequently have no idea what I'm talking about. Like now.

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Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3181 on: July 05, 2017, 04:40:33 PM »
If I picked up something for my parents or in-laws I would not expect them to pay for time and or gas. That is just being cheap. I do think it is weird not to pay you the whole amount however but definitely not worth mentioning.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3182 on: July 05, 2017, 05:17:25 PM »
If I picked up something for my parents or in-laws I would not expect them to pay for time and or gas. That is just being cheap. I do think it is weird not to pay you the whole amount however but definitely not worth mentioning.

Again, part of a pattern.

They buy things on eBay in our city and ask us to pick them up to save them freight or postage.

This has included car parts that involved a 140km round-trip.

If I asked someone to do that for me, I wouldn't dream of not offering them fuel money.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3183 on: July 05, 2017, 05:35:49 PM »
... sounds like he's twisted up in the idea of family and duty and letting them take advantage just due to blood ties...

Don't do that!  It's a (insert drum roll here...) duty-free shop!

Lanthiriel

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3184 on: July 05, 2017, 06:04:58 PM »
GUYS, my grandfather passed away on Monday, so I actually had to spend time with my uncle who has been antagonizing me for about three decades now. This is the man who used to bring logic problems home from college and tell my mom I was a brat when I was able to solve them. Anyway, here are some excellent financial moments that I attempted to share on Reddit's personal finance page, but apparently Redditors couldn't believe someone this stupid exists:

  • I was whining about Oregon state taxes, but in the context of how I love all of the things they provide and I need to figure out how to come to terms with paying for all the parks and other great amenities we have in the Portland metro area. My uncle's wife looks at me and says, but you get your taxes back. I tried to clarify what she meant and apparently she believes that she and I both get back all of the taxes we pay on both the state and federal level when we file our taxes at the end of the year. I explained that that is definitely not true for me, as we are DINKs making a decent income and she shut me down with a "yes, you do."
  • I commended on uncle's wife's new Mini Cooper. She had originally bought a 2003 in 2013 for $20,000. I remember this detail because I almost did a spit take when she told me this and I'm sure I said something shitty. Well, when it (surprise, surprise) broke down last year, she got a brand new one, and rolled her negative equity into a 7-year, 22% interest car loan. Direct quote: "It only doubled the payments and insurance is another $200/month."
  • We were out at breakfast and at the beginning of the meal when we were telling the waitress how to divide up the check, uncle offers to pay for my grandfather's wife (nice gesture). When the checks come, their card is declined and we all have to pitch in to pay for their meal. Grandfather's wife is so pissed that she insists on paying for her own.

My uncle has also been MIA the whole time my grandpa was sick despite living in the same town. Apparently my grandfather passed away just after my uncle told him that he loved him, and my grandfather's wife whispered to my mom and I, "I bet that's what killed him." She plans to disinherit him.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3185 on: July 05, 2017, 06:56:54 PM »
mustachepungoeshere:  Ok I can understand a picture of a receipt if this is half way common just to keep things straight.  (receipt would have a description and location of purchase as well as price).

Quote
I commended on uncle's wife's new Mini Cooper. She had originally bought a 2003 in 2013 for $20,000. I remember this detail because I almost did a spit take when she told me this and I'm sure I said something shitty. Well, when it (surprise, surprise) broke down last year, she got a brand new one, and rolled her negative equity into a 7-year, 22% interest car loan. Direct quote: "It only doubled the payments and insurance is another $200/month."
22%! I am not opposed to taxing the mathematically challenged but there needs to be some balance.  Even in warfare there is the concept of proportionality. 
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mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3186 on: July 05, 2017, 09:08:18 PM »
... sounds like he's twisted up in the idea of family and duty and letting them take advantage just due to blood ties...

Don't do that!  It's a (insert drum roll here...) duty-free shop!

Love this! :D

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3187 on: July 06, 2017, 06:49:17 AM »
Quote
  • I was whining about Oregon state taxes, but in the context of how I love all of the things they provide and I need to figure out how to come to terms with paying for all the parks and other great amenities we have in the Portland metro area. My uncle's wife looks at me and says, but you get your taxes back. I tried to clarify what she meant and apparently she believes that she and I both get back all of the taxes we pay on both the state and federal level when we file our taxes at the end of the year. I explained that that is definitely not true for me, as we are DINKs making a decent income and she shut me down with a "yes, you do."

This is actually a much more common viewpoint than you would think. I got into it with some stranger on facebook over this. They tried to tell me that I get every penny I pay in taxes back at the end of the year.
Me: "Ok, so what about when my W2 says I paid XX,XXX in taxes, but I only get X,XXX back. Where does the rest of that money go? Does it just disappear?
FB Idiot: No! It goes toward paying for the military and infrastructure -some comment about how stupid I am-
Me: Ok, so if I pay towards the military and infrastructure ... how do I get that money back in my tax return every year? I can't pay for things AND get all of my money back. That's not how it works.
FBI: -silence-

BabyShark

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3188 on: July 06, 2017, 06:59:18 AM »
If I picked up something for my parents or in-laws I would not expect them to pay for time and or gas. That is just being cheap. I do think it is weird not to pay you the whole amount however but definitely not worth mentioning.

Again, part of a pattern.

They buy things on eBay in our city and ask us to pick them up to save them freight or postage.

This has included car parts that involved a 140km round-trip.

If I asked someone to do that for me, I wouldn't dream of not offering them fuel money.

I think the issue I have with this is that it's not like they're giving you cash and don't have exact change.  They're transferring it from their account to yours.  It literally just requires them to type in a number properly.

Pigeon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3189 on: July 06, 2017, 08:21:13 AM »


Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

Unless this was a  significant amount of money, I'd let my husband know it annoys me and then I would leave it up to him to decide if he wants to get into it with his parents.  It might be a pattern, but on the one hand you are complaining about them not giving you the exact amount, and on the other hand you are complaining about them not giving you the exact amount.  If it bugs him, he can start telling him he was too busy on his trips to do shopping for them.

I would not be running all over town to pick stuff up for them, whether they reimburse you for it or not.  If they want to save a few bucks on shipping, they can do it in a way that doesn't involve me.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3190 on: July 06, 2017, 09:35:34 AM »
It depends on the situation.  We just visited our parents out of state, and they had us pick up a bunch of liquor from Costco since it is so much cheaper there than a normal liquor store. So I bought them about $40 of vodka, they had told me they were going to pay me back.

They didn't. I also didn't ask. My parents paid for dinner for us twice, bought gas for his boat that we used the entire weekend (he didn't even go on it at all!), etc. When he heard about all of the stuff I was selling on eBay, he asked if everything was ok and to let him know if we need help. (We're fine--I'm just trying to get rid of shit that I don't need).

So, for $40 of liquor, and about 3-4 hours of work (2-3 of which I enjoyed) my wife and I got free lodging on a beachfront property, lots of love for our dogs, use of a boat, use of many toys, etc. Yeah, mom and dad said they'd pay us back for that liquor--but I'm sure as hell not going to ask them for it, and I'd be annoyed if my wife did too.

Now, if it isn't so much of a give and take relationship (i.e. all take), then yeah, I'd be annoyed.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3191 on: July 06, 2017, 09:44:08 AM »
Quote
  • I was whining about Oregon state taxes, but in the context of how I love all of the things they provide and I need to figure out how to come to terms with paying for all the parks and other great amenities we have in the Portland metro area. My uncle's wife looks at me and says, but you get your taxes back. I tried to clarify what she meant and apparently she believes that she and I both get back all of the taxes we pay on both the state and federal level when we file our taxes at the end of the year. I explained that that is definitely not true for me, as we are DINKs making a decent income and she shut me down with a "yes, you do."

This is actually a much more common viewpoint than you would think. I got into it with some stranger on facebook over this. They tried to tell me that I get every penny I pay in taxes back at the end of the year.
Me: "Ok, so what about when my W2 says I paid XX,XXX in taxes, but I only get X,XXX back. Where does the rest of that money go? Does it just disappear?
FB Idiot: No! It goes toward paying for the military and infrastructure -some comment about how stupid I am-
Me: Ok, so if I pay towards the military and infrastructure ... how do I get that money back in my tax return every year? I can't pay for things AND get all of my money back. That's not how it works.
FBI: -silence-

I live among the Amish, and have neighbors who have been here forever, who will look you in the eye, and say, "You know, they don't pay a dime in taxes, no real estate taxes, state taxes, federal taxes, nothing". The sad part is that it's a horseshit claim, and takes thirty seconds online to refute, but it's a gospel fact in these parts. Stupid, it's contagious, you get it from listening to your neighbors.

infogoon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3192 on: July 06, 2017, 11:24:43 AM »
In my experience, there's an inverse correlation between how loudly someone complains about taxes and how well they understand them. The loudest people have no idea what their effective tax rate is or how marginal rates work.

cheapass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3193 on: July 06, 2017, 11:31:39 AM »
In my experience, there's an inverse correlation between how loudly someone complains about taxes and how well they understand them. The loudest people have no idea what their effective tax rate is or how marginal rates work.

I must be an outlier because I understand a lot about taxes and bitch about them all the time lol
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3194 on: July 06, 2017, 11:36:57 AM »
In my experience, there's an inverse correlation between how loudly someone complains about taxes and how well they understand them. The loudest people have no idea what their effective tax rate is or how marginal rates work.

I must be an outlier because I understand a lot about taxes and bitch about them all the time lol
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

cheapass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3195 on: July 06, 2017, 11:40:36 AM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3196 on: July 06, 2017, 11:54:49 AM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3197 on: July 06, 2017, 01:05:19 PM »
In my experience, there's an inverse correlation between how loudly someone complains about taxes and how well they understand them. The loudest people have no idea what their effective tax rate is or how marginal rates work.

I must be an outlier because I understand a lot about taxes and bitch about them all the time lol
It's what all the loud people who don't understand taxes say.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3198 on: July 06, 2017, 03:31:42 PM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

It's sad. We have friends that live in a great area, in the northwest corner of the state. LCOL, and really pleasant overall. We joking said, "we could easily move here". They instantly and solemnly responded with, "nobody should intentionally moved to state that's run this poorly, unless you have no other choice".

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3199 on: July 06, 2017, 03:55:48 PM »
Me too.  The Illinois senate just voted for a 33% income tax increase (up to 5%), on top of our 3% effective property tax rate and 8.25% total sales tax.

Time to vote with your feet and take your tax dollars elsewhere. We moved to TX from IL 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Property tax here is somewhat high (2.3% effective for us) and the sales tax is the same but the lack of a state income tax puts us way ahead. I've got that money in the market instead of sitting in Springfield's coffers.

We will definitely be moving to a low property tax state when we retire. At that point I won't really care what the income tax is because we'll be "poor" (low income).
The funny thing is that we moved from TX to IL 6 years ago.  I took a pay cut in the process as well, but I enjoy my work here a lot more.  I'm trying to convince my bosses (small company/partnership) to move the company elsewhere.  Just the saved property taxes alone would amount to a huge raise.

It's sad. We have friends that live in a great area, in the northwest corner of the state. LCOL, and really pleasant overall. We joking said, "we could easily move here". They instantly and solemnly responded with, "nobody should intentionally moved to state that's run this poorly, unless you have no other choice".

With Chicago, there is no reason that we should be in the situation we are in. And unfortunately, the problems are so deep that I don't see an end in sight.

(Political warning--this is about to get foamy and inappropriate for a forum)
2 of our last 4 governors have served time in prison--one released in 2013, the other still in. 4 of the last 11 governors have served time, after being governor.
Chicago was run for the better part of the past 100 years by the Daley's. Love them or hate them, they've made a lot of lasting decisions that are... interesting at best. Rahm hasn't been any better.

Then, the big issue: Michael Madigan. He has been the worst thing to happen to this state, even worse than Blago. I am not happy with our current governor, but I'll keep voting Republican in every possible election for our state until Michael Madigan is out of office. He is a scourge on the state. He's been speaker of the house since 1983 (except for two years in the 90's), and the biggest political bully in this states history.

Ah, I won't go into it any more. Its just raising my blood pressure.