Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1509374 times)

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2850 on: April 30, 2017, 07:22:09 PM »

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

Usually the easiest is to just say no. If you tell them ahead of the birth that you won't have any visitors until 6-12 weeks after the baby is born, it is much easier to loosen the rules afterwards. If they expect to almost take part in the birth, they will be disappointed if you ask them to wait one week before visiting. If they know from the start you want peace and quiet, they will be positively surprised if they get to see the baby already after two weeks.

With a newborn, usually the best help is to stay away (or bring food and leave).

Wow! All this seems a little harsh, not seeing a new grandchild for a couple of weeks?

Ok, you don't want to visit too long or inappropriately, but it seems a little cruel and unusual (maybe not so unusual!) to exclude the grandparents (who probably love the child the most next to the parents) and treat them with such disdain.

Knowing how much you love your children, how do you think you'd feel treated like this when your time came to be grandparents?

You sound awfully entitled. New parents get to set the boundaries. Deal with it.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2851 on: April 30, 2017, 09:22:16 PM »
I read all these parent stories and am thankful for my parents and my in-laws. We live next door to one and a mile from the other. We drop in on them, they drop in on us. We cook then dinner, they cook us dinner. They watch our kids and dog, we watch their dog. We share the cat.

When our kids were born, they were there for us. After ours kids were born, they were there to support us. As they get older, we will be there to support them. They offer us advice when we ask, and occasionally, but rarely, when we don't. And usually the unsolicited advice is sound and well timed.

I truly don't know what we would do without them.

Let's put it this way:
- we live next door to our in-laws. They call before coming over, are super helpful but not pushy, give (good!) advice but only when asked, don't comment on what we chose to do with our house and yard, and they help when we need (with the kids...) and we help when they need (aging takes a physical Toll). Like: they have a key to our house, and have used it once in 2 years, because a package got left on the porch and would be getting rained on so they tucked it inside and locked the place back up.
- my parents are lovely but require firm boundary re-setting on a regular basis. I love them, they adore our kids, we're super close, but seeing my mother more than once a week leads to Clashes during the second visit (she treats me like I'm 15 and tells me how to manage my life... or even better, tried to tell me how to parent, but she has an anxiety disorder so her advice is more like "if you're not worried about *x improbable thing* you're not parenting right)... yeah, we live 45 minutes away, and she doesn't have a key. And we see her every week or two but definitely never more than that.
- my best friend has a mother who consistently criticizes everything about her life, appearance, and profession, and then expects her to drop everything when she needs help. She now lives across the Atlantic, and apparently a phone call every 2 months is the right amount of contact for the best relationship they've ever managed.

In short: you can have a close relationship... but not with everyone. Some people need a bit of distance to be able to be close.

There is a little more to the story. My father and his very opinionated wife live half the country away from us. That works fine and dandy. I can completely understand those that have difficulties. I'm just thankful that the worst we get from our nearby relations is a tree trimmer ad taped to our cabinets after the hints about our trees blocking FIL's view haven't generated action.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2852 on: April 30, 2017, 11:05:30 PM »
It's such a shame that people don't respect boundaries. WE never had any problems with my parents or the in-laws. If I had family like some of you guys I would not even tell them I was pregnant until a month after the baby was born:))   Of course this only works if you live in different towns.

Seriously already thinking about how long we can keep the news from my mother if we ever have children - of both birth and pregnancy. Mainly because we have a precarious entente which is largely built upon never saying anything other than small talk, and I can see how we'd get into deeper conversation pretty quickly about children. She'd ask about the birth plan, I'd obfuscate but eventually have to tell her, she'd make some passive-aggressive but deniable veiled criticism, I have to decide whether to play nice to keep the peace or enforce boundaries and start an argument and be accused of criticising HER... Oh man. (And iowajes, I sympathise with struggling to enforce boundaries - no one wants to pour petrol onto embers if the embers will just keep glowing quietly by themselves, but you still get burned by embers.) If I could keep the entire pregnancy and existence of the child secret from her forever, I would.

Just as a datapoint, we're closing in on 4 years of keeping the news from my MIL.  We do live a long way away, and communication is intentionally limited.

And I'm not going to get into all of her crazy, nasty stuff over the years. That would be for my wife to tell.

You successfully kept a 3-year-old hidden from the in-laws? The logistics alone sound like a good story. (/fetches popcorn)

cloudsail

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2853 on: April 30, 2017, 11:44:23 PM »

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

Usually the easiest is to just say no. If you tell them ahead of the birth that you won't have any visitors until 6-12 weeks after the baby is born, it is much easier to loosen the rules afterwards. If they expect to almost take part in the birth, they will be disappointed if you ask them to wait one week before visiting. If they know from the start you want peace and quiet, they will be positively surprised if they get to see the baby already after two weeks.

With a newborn, usually the best help is to stay away (or bring food and leave).

Wow! All this seems a little harsh, not seeing a new grandchild for a couple of weeks?

Ok, you don't want to visit too long or inappropriately, but it seems a little cruel and unusual (maybe not so unusual!) to exclude the grandparents (who probably love the child the most next to the parents) and treat them with such disdain.

Knowing how much you love your children, how do you think you'd feel treated like this when your time came to be grandparents?

You sound awfully entitled. New parents get to set the boundaries. Deal with it.

Most Asian grandparents seem to have this kind of attitude. My in-laws were staying with us when I was due with my first, and when I went into labor they followed us to the hospital. My husband and I didn't know about it until after the baby was born, because it was a very quick labor and delivery. I guess it was partly our fault for not expressly telling them that we didn't want them there, but honestly I never thought that it needed to be said. I mean, who follows a couple in labor to the hospital without being asked? Surely if we had wanted them there they could've just come along in the car with us.

When my parents found out that they weren't the first guardians for our children in our will, they completely flipped out. Again, I was totally unprepared for their reaction, or I would never have told them. In hindsight I should've been able to guess, but I guess growing up in North America has made me a little blind to a lot of Asian cultural norms.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2854 on: May 01, 2017, 12:11:33 AM »
Quote from: cloudsail link=topic=31172.msg1534356#msg1534356 date

When my parents found out that they weren't the first guardians for our children in our will, they completely flipped out. Again, I was totally unprepared for their reaction, or I would never have told them.

I'm sorry it didn't go well. If they were going to flip out, it is definitely better you told them, though (assuming they are somebody you want in your children's lives).  If the worst should happen, you don't want, best case, your parents dealing with the unanswered questions of why they weren't chosen on top of mourning the loss of their child.  Worst case would be some sort of custody battle.  You might have skipped the repercussions because, well, you'd be dead, but your children wouldn't.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2855 on: May 01, 2017, 01:03:54 AM »
It's such a shame that people don't respect boundaries. WE never had any problems with my parents or the in-laws. If I had family like some of you guys I would not even tell them I was pregnant until a month after the baby was born:))   Of course this only works if you live in different towns.

Seriously already thinking about how long we can keep the news from my mother if we ever have children - of both birth and pregnancy. Mainly because we have a precarious entente which is largely built upon never saying anything other than small talk, and I can see how we'd get into deeper conversation pretty quickly about children. She'd ask about the birth plan, I'd obfuscate but eventually have to tell her, she'd make some passive-aggressive but deniable veiled criticism, I have to decide whether to play nice to keep the peace or enforce boundaries and start an argument and be accused of criticising HER... Oh man. (And iowajes, I sympathise with struggling to enforce boundaries - no one wants to pour petrol onto embers if the embers will just keep glowing quietly by themselves, but you still get burned by embers.) If I could keep the entire pregnancy and existence of the child secret from her forever, I would.

Just as a datapoint, we're closing in on 4 years of keeping the news from my MIL.  We do live a long way away, and communication is intentionally limited.

And I'm not going to get into all of her crazy, nasty stuff over the years. That would be for my wife to tell.

You successfully kept a 3-year-old hidden from the in-laws? The logistics alone sound like a good story. (/fetches popcorn)

Yes. Please please please explain how you actually do this while still having some contact with her. And how the "Hey, guess we should tell MIL about the baby" - "You know, we don't actually have to..." converation went. Does anyone else on that side of the family know, and how have they not told her?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2856 on: May 01, 2017, 08:44:13 AM »
DD hasn't got around to reproducing, but when (if) she does, we will discuss all this ahead of time.  The fact that we are a few 100 km apart means we will have to plan it, it is not as if I live next door.  I can certainly see popping down to see my grandchild soon after birth but only for a day (i.e. drive there and stay in a hotel overnight, see baby evening and morning, drive home), and then going later for a longer visit when their schedule has settled a bit.  But she will know what works best for them.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2857 on: May 01, 2017, 10:35:17 AM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2858 on: May 01, 2017, 10:47:45 AM »
What are the age group after millennials called? the 2000-now

Generation Z

More like Generation Why?

Why do I have to......etc etc
Actually, the Millennial generation was called Generation Y, and Generation Why, before settling on Mellinnial.  If I recall correctly, both of those terms were used in the 90's.  I'm guessing we won't have a final name for the generation being born now for another 10-15 years.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2859 on: May 01, 2017, 10:59:37 AM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

Yeah. I've genuinely been thinking throughout this discussion, "What do you even need to see them FOR?" You can find out that mother and baby are both well by phone. You can get pictures over email if you're that desperate to check your grandchild looks like every other baby ever. It's not like the baby will even acknowledge your existence for months. The ONLY reason to dash down there is to genuinely help with stuff like cooking and cleaning and changing nappies. There is no other reason to visit the baby immediately.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2860 on: May 01, 2017, 11:25:01 AM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

Yeah. I've genuinely been thinking throughout this discussion, "What do you even need to see them FOR?" You can find out that mother and baby are both well by phone. You can get pictures over email if you're that desperate to check your grandchild looks like every other baby ever. It's not like the baby will even acknowledge your existence for months. The ONLY reason to dash down there is to genuinely help with stuff like cooking and cleaning and changing nappies. There is no other reason to visit the baby immediately.
Well, there *is* the emotional experience of holding a newborn as well.  There's nothing else quite like it :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2861 on: May 01, 2017, 01:19:31 PM »
What are the age group after millennials called? the 2000-now

Generation Z

More like Generation Why?

Why do I have to......etc etc
Actually, the Millennial generation was called Generation Y, and Generation Why, before settling on Mellinnial.  If I recall correctly, both of those terms were used in the 90's.  I'm guessing we won't have a final name for the generation being born now for another 10-15 years.

I went to a seminar that called them Generation Edge.

It took me a long time to realize I was a millennial (1982) because I fit so few of the characteristics and grew up as generation Y.  That same seminar called people like me "cuspers".



-----------------------
Nothing like holding a newborn, nope. There isn't. But it isn't about the grandparents.
There are about 50 photos of my newborn with her grandparents in the recovery room. There is ONE of me and the baby.

Grandparents posted photos of themselves with baby on facebook as soon as Dad announced the birth (to be fair, that was good waiting. Husband's parents posted the baby's birth and stats before he did!). Photo of me didn't make it until day 2. (Birth being day 0). The first comment was "I thought Jessi was there too!".

It was all about "look at us being grandparents of the year". Let the parents enjoy their new baby for a bit!

(My SIL didn't even get to hold 2 of her children before her mother who took them while she was in recovery. I had told my husband and the nurses that no one touches the baby except DH before I do. But they saw her before me.)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 01:26:28 PM by iowajes »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2862 on: May 01, 2017, 01:29:51 PM »
Oh, and just as an anti mustachian rant...
MIL bought like $200 worth of clothes for the baby. After seeing that her closet is so full she can never wear all this.

Including outfits for Halloween and Christmas! Who knows what size she'll even be then! Or whether I'm going to want to make her something special to wear.

This is someone who doesn't have money to spend!

gaja

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2863 on: May 01, 2017, 01:48:00 PM »
Oh, and just as an anti mustachian rant...
MIL bought like $200 worth of clothes for the baby. After seeing that her closet is so full she can never wear all this.

Including outfits for Halloween and Christmas! Who knows what size she'll even be then! Or whether I'm going to want to make her something special to wear.

This is someone who doesn't have money to spend!

Can you return those clothes to the shop for a refund or store credit? They grow very fast, and most grandparents relax on the clothes buying mania when the babies approach 12 months. Those store credits might come to good use then. As for the Halloween and Christmas clothes, I would definitely return them, and if the question comes up explain that they were (unfortunately) the wrong size.

If you can't return them, donate to goodwill or someone else, or sell them.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2864 on: May 01, 2017, 02:19:43 PM »
No, they aren't from stores I have around here :(

I'll eventually donate them.

Oh, I forgot another fun shopaholic story- she used to buy things for my SIL. Give them to her kids, unwrap them, use them, and then give SIL a bill! My SIL finally threw a fit and refused to pay when it was a new bedroom set!  I would have refused at the first 99 cent toy!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 02:21:58 PM by iowajes »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2865 on: May 01, 2017, 02:24:51 PM »
Oh, I forgot another fun shopaholic story- she used to buy things for my SIL. Give them to her kids, unwrap them, use them, and then give SIL a bill! My SIL finally threw a fit and refused to pay when it was a new bedroom set!  I would have refused at the first 99 cent toy!

WHAT!!! Please elaborate!  How in what world is this a thing?

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2866 on: May 01, 2017, 02:30:23 PM »
That's INSANE!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2867 on: May 01, 2017, 02:51:49 PM »
Oh, I forgot another fun shopaholic story- she used to buy things for my SIL. Give them to her kids, unwrap them, use them, and then give SIL a bill! My SIL finally threw a fit and refused to pay when it was a new bedroom set!  I would have refused at the first 99 cent toy!

WHAT!!! Please elaborate!  How in what world is this a thing?

I guess my SIL is a bit of a pushover, but also needed MIL to be on good terms as she was their childcare. So she just out up with it. The kidsbwould day "granny got us stuffed animals", then on Monday SIL would be told she owed her $10, or whatever.

The furniture went back. Who the hell buys someone furniture without asking?
(MIL did rearrange my basement furniture. My husband noticed everything is about 2 ft to the left. And our chair is now diagonal rather than square to the wall. Once either of us can lift things we will have to put it all back.)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2868 on: May 01, 2017, 03:42:14 PM »

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

Usually the easiest is to just say no. If you tell them ahead of the birth that you won't have any visitors until 6-12 weeks after the baby is born, it is much easier to loosen the rules afterwards. If they expect to almost take part in the birth, they will be disappointed if you ask them to wait one week before visiting. If they know from the start you want peace and quiet, they will be positively surprised if they get to see the baby already after two weeks.

With a newborn, usually the best help is to stay away (or bring food and leave).

Wow! All this seems a little harsh, not seeing a new grandchild for a couple of weeks?

Ok, you don't want to visit too long or inappropriately, but it seems a little cruel and unusual (maybe not so unusual!) to exclude the grandparents (who probably love the child the most next to the parents) and treat them with such disdain.

Knowing how much you love your children, how do you think you'd feel treated like this when your time came to be grandparents?

You sound awfully entitled. New parents get to set the boundaries. Deal with it.
Not at all, I have no grandchildren. Neither am I Asian :) but I have seen the pain these sort of issues have caused others. Perhaps I'm just expecting people to share this exciting milestone with their families?

Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn. A photo is fine in extenuating circumstances, but it's not the same as holding a newborn. I'm with zolotiyeruki:
Quote
Well, there *is* the emotional experience of holding a newborn as well.  There's nothing else quite like it :)


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2869 on: May 01, 2017, 05:41:40 PM »
In some traditional Asian cultures it is normal for the grandparents to raise the children.  This let the parents focus on earning an income that supports all three generations.

The economic situation may have changed but the cultural traditions of grandparents having the primary caregiver role linger on.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2870 on: May 01, 2017, 06:23:11 PM »
Quote
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

Families were closer together, so these hospital visits were short and not new parents having to deal with house guests.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2871 on: May 01, 2017, 08:03:05 PM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2872 on: May 01, 2017, 08:27:01 PM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2873 on: May 01, 2017, 10:12:35 PM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

Australia.

Not pregnancy-related, but I was ill earlier this year. Two GP appointments, five days in hospital, two outpatient scans, and three more GP appointments and I paid ... $0.

Marty even profited from it. He came to visit me and ate my hospital-issue dinner. :)

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2874 on: May 01, 2017, 10:59:03 PM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

Yeah. I've genuinely been thinking throughout this discussion, "What do you even need to see them FOR?" You can find out that mother and baby are both well by phone. You can get pictures over email if you're that desperate to check your grandchild looks like every other baby ever. It's not like the baby will even acknowledge your existence for months. The ONLY reason to dash down there is to genuinely help with stuff like cooking and cleaning and changing nappies. There is no other reason to visit the baby immediately.

Some families actually like each other.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2875 on: May 01, 2017, 11:20:58 PM »
No, they aren't from stores I have around here :(

I'll eventually donate them.

Oh, I forgot another fun shopaholic story- she used to buy things for my SIL. Give them to her kids, unwrap them, use them, and then give SIL a bill! My SIL finally threw a fit and refused to pay when it was a new bedroom set!  I would have refused at the first 99 cent toy!

See -- they are on their best behavior for you.!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2876 on: May 01, 2017, 11:36:21 PM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

Australia.

Not pregnancy-related, but I was ill earlier this year. Two GP appointments, five days in hospital, two outpatient scans, and three more GP appointments and I paid ... $0.

Marty even profited from it. He came to visit me and ate my hospital-issue dinner. :)

Man, I love Australia.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2877 on: May 02, 2017, 01:10:15 AM »
I wonder whether all this "must see baby immediately" is a cultural hang-over from the days (which are within living memory) when the chances were high of mother or baby, or both, dying within a few days of the birth.

It's an explanation though, not an excuse.

Yeah. I've genuinely been thinking throughout this discussion, "What do you even need to see them FOR?" You can find out that mother and baby are both well by phone. You can get pictures over email if you're that desperate to check your grandchild looks like every other baby ever. It's not like the baby will even acknowledge your existence for months. The ONLY reason to dash down there is to genuinely help with stuff like cooking and cleaning and changing nappies. There is no other reason to visit the baby immediately.

Some families actually like each other.

Fair point. :) But I guess that might still fall under "the only reason is to genuinely help" - emotional support for the new mother counts.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2878 on: May 02, 2017, 01:16:42 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?

Abundant life

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2879 on: May 02, 2017, 02:58:11 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?
They used to, but that might have changed too! :)

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2880 on: May 02, 2017, 03:00:49 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?

None of my friends had home health visits, but all were assigned to a baby clinic, put in touch with a mothers' group, and given excellent outpatient support. They were also encouraged to keep in touch with the hospital, and had the option of returning for a night or two if needed. It was a much more fluid process instead of just being discharged and told they were on their own.

marty998

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2881 on: May 02, 2017, 06:01:19 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

Australia.

Not pregnancy-related, but I was ill earlier this year. Two GP appointments, five days in hospital, two outpatient scans, and three more GP appointments and I paid ... $0.

Marty even profited from it. He came to visit me and ate my hospital-issue dinner. :)

Man, I love Australia.

The food wasn't very good. It could best be described as the minimum required to give you enough calories to survive.

The entertainment was interesting - druggo crack addict suffering acute withdrawal symptoms in the next bed, with her dip-shit drop-kick boyfriend popping pills in the communal toilet.

The poor nurses having to deal with that day in day out :(

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2882 on: May 02, 2017, 06:03:19 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

It's because the bill for an overnight stay is brutal even with help from insurance, and nobody wants to catch a hospital-borne infection such as MRSA or flesh-eating bacteria. That can be fatal.

Australia.

Not pregnancy-related, but I was ill earlier this year. Two GP appointments, five days in hospital, two outpatient scans, and three more GP appointments and I paid ... $0.

Marty even profited from it. He came to visit me and ate my hospital-issue dinner. :)

Man, I love Australia.

The food wasn't very good. It could best be described as the minimum required to give you enough calories to survive.

The entertainment was interesting - druggo crack addict suffering acute withdrawal symptoms in the next bed, with her dip-shit drop-kick boyfriend popping pills in the communal toilet.

The poor nurses having to deal with that day in day out :(

Which is why I needed you for entertainment. And moral support. And clean socks! :)

Guava

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2883 on: May 02, 2017, 07:55:45 AM »
It appears relative's disability through her employer was cancelled. We don't know specifics about their situation but have been able to gather that they gross at least $15k between his job, her disability, and the child support payments they get. We are guessing her disability on the low end of $5k per month. They have no idea how to make ends meet. We live in a LCOL area. She only has 3 more years of child support. They never saw their impending financial disaster coming. They even recently refinanced their credit card debt into their mortgage...for the third time...

I am curious what will come next.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2884 on: May 02, 2017, 10:23:23 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?

None of my friends had home health visits, but all were assigned to a baby clinic, put in touch with a mothers' group, and given excellent outpatient support. They were also encouraged to keep in touch with the hospital, and had the option of returning for a night or two if needed. It was a much more fluid process instead of just being discharged and told they were on their own.
I had a 2 week mood check with a medical assistant- it was a 5 min. appt.  and I have a 6 week follow up scheduled with my OB/midwife. That's it for Mom.

Baby had a weight check at 4 days a well visit at 2 weeks and 4 weeks and I have one scheduled for 8 weeks.

I've had a few more non standard appts due to her feeding issues (speech pathologist, dentist)
I've also joined a lactation support group I found.

But thank goodness I got to stay 3 nights in the hospital (it's 1 or 2 for vaginal).

Of course now I'm facing a lot of calls to deal with the $27k bill that was denied by my insurance because they don't like how it was coded...

Sorry, getting off topic.
Anti-MMM comment: mother is mailing a box of (hand me down from her friends, thankfully) baby clothes. It will probably cost $20-30 to mail. She's driving up in two weeks. WHY are you paying to mail this?

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2885 on: May 02, 2017, 10:38:29 AM »
We really lucked out when our two kids were born. Small rural LCOL area hospital. Overnight stay. No stress. Not crowded. Advised us what to bring so we didn't have to pay hospital prices for aspirin for example.

Only two Moms visiting at the time.

DW received plenty of attention from the staff and they fed us a feast! Came in and invited me to take the second (empty) bed and get some rest.

Big city family thought/thinks we were crazy living in this smallish town but honestly there are real perks to living here.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2886 on: May 03, 2017, 08:19:14 AM »
Our hospital had queen size beds in the mother/baby unit, so my husband slept in the bed with me.

My room was way nicer than his room (shared, split by a curtain) after his appendectomy.

The room service was okay too, and they don't blink when a "hungry" patient orders enough for a banquet. Husband ate well.

Gin1984

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2887 on: May 03, 2017, 09:44:28 AM »
Something has changed, it used to be normal to visit a new baby in hospital, while the parents got to show off their newborn.

It was normal when women were in hospital for three or four days after giving birth.

That just doesn't happen anymore.

I've had friends go into labour in the early hours of the morning and, all going well, are home that afternoon. Some were in hospital less than six hours including labour and, when given the option, elected to go home as soon as possible.

I think it's unusual in the US to not have an overnight stay when giving birth.  Mostly because once you get sent home, you are on your own. Does Australia have home health visitors like the UK?

None of my friends had home health visits, but all were assigned to a baby clinic, put in touch with a mothers' group, and given excellent outpatient support. They were also encouraged to keep in touch with the hospital, and had the option of returning for a night or two if needed. It was a much more fluid process instead of just being discharged and told they were on their own.
I had a 2 week mood check with a medical assistant- it was a 5 min. appt.  and I have a 6 week follow up scheduled with my OB/midwife. That's it for Mom.

Baby had a weight check at 4 days a well visit at 2 weeks and 4 weeks and I have one scheduled for 8 weeks.

I've had a few more non standard appts due to her feeding issues (speech pathologist, dentist)
I've also joined a lactation support group I found.

But thank goodness I got to stay 3 nights in the hospital (it's 1 or 2 for vaginal).

Of course now I'm facing a lot of calls to deal with the $27k bill that was denied by my insurance because they don't like how it was coded...

Sorry, getting off topic.
Anti-MMM comment: mother is mailing a box of (hand me down from her friends, thankfully) baby clothes. It will probably cost $20-30 to mail. She's driving up in two weeks. WHY are you paying to mail this?
WTF????

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2888 on: May 03, 2017, 10:07:19 AM »
...

Of course now I'm facing a lot of calls to deal with the $27k bill that was denied by my insurance because they don't like how it was coded...

Sorry, getting off topic.
Anti-MMM comment: mother is mailing a box of (hand me down from her friends, thankfully) baby clothes. It will probably cost $20-30 to mail. She's driving up in two weeks. WHY are you paying to mail this?
WTF????

See here in the Land of the Free if we did not have 27k health care bills the Communists will win and our guns will be confiscated by the French and 9th circuit court will install Bruce Jenner as President who will force us all to convert to Islam while preforming abortions on our grandparents.  /sarcasm.




I'm a red panda

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2889 on: May 03, 2017, 11:35:03 AM »
AlanStache has it right...

It will be covered (I'll pay about $4k on that, my total for the pregnancy/birth will be $6k...I have a PPO not a high deductible)-it's just going to take a lot of phone calls. Insurance says hospital is wrong. Hospital says insurance is wrong.  Oh, great fun.  That's just a small portion of the total bill.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2890 on: May 03, 2017, 04:21:33 PM »
Can you just ignore the bill until the insurance co and hospital sort things out? I remember when I had an injury years ago I got bill after bill with an ever changing owed amount. Eventually they sorted it out and I owed $150 or some small amount.

I could only imagine how complicated it might be to get your money back if you paid before the hospital and insurance co were done arguing.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2891 on: May 03, 2017, 07:30:25 PM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2892 on: May 04, 2017, 09:31:10 AM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...

So, if the insurance company doesn't like the coding, get the specifics of what they want, then take it to the provider (hospital). Spoon feed it to them and have them resubmit. No, things shouldn't work this way. Yes, sometimes they do.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2893 on: May 04, 2017, 03:46:50 PM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...

So, if the insurance company doesn't like the coding, get the specifics of what they want, then take it to the provider (hospital). Spoon feed it to them and have them resubmit. No, things shouldn't work this way. Yes, sometimes they do.
The insurance is in the wrong. I went down to the hospital and they showed it to me, and it's exactly what insurance is asking for. Hospital cannot resend it because it would be a duplicate.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2894 on: May 04, 2017, 04:15:12 PM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...
Okay, so this was 11 years ago, but I got a $3000 bill for my first birth (vaginal with epidural, 2 nights in hospital), on a total bill of about $5000?  (I feel like hospital was $5k, and doctor was $4k, or thereabouts).

I got the EOB from my insurance company.  I called the hospital to get an itemized bill.  Then in my sleep-deprived state, I attempted to make sense of it.

But literally NONE of the lines matched.  Not the title.  Not the code.  Not the $ amounts.  I could not even combine several lines together to get any $ amount to match.

So I called the hospital and started in on my talk "well, I have your bill, and the EOB, and nothing lines up at all". 

Hospital: "Wait, let us handle that.  It can be confusing.  We will call the insurance company."

A bit later (a week?  2 weeks?) magically my new bill was $700.  ($350 deductible x 2)  It made me wonder:

#1: how many people "just pay it" to avoid dealing with the hospital and insurance.  It saves them both money.
#2: how many times insurance denies payment "just because"


I say this because years later, my kid #2 had surgery at 9 months.  It was necessary, and pre-qualified / approved.
First EOB from the insurance company said "we are denying payment for this surgery because it was not emergency surgery".  No shit dipwads, that's why we got the PRE-APPROVAL.

In the end, they paid it, but it took 1.5 YEARS.  Between the insurance company denials, the poor billing practices of the hospital, the fact that the hospital and doctors bill separately, the different insurance companies (kiddo double covered), change in insurance at the end of the year...what a mess.

And I'm pretty sure all along, hospital and insurance were hoping that we'd "just pay the bill".  The cost was approximately $25,000 (outpatient).  Our cost: $125 (the outpatient cost), which we paid for out of the HSA.

But many many hours on the phone, my husband was the one who did it.  I'd recommend using someone who is both stubborn and not sleep deprived.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2895 on: May 05, 2017, 08:50:10 AM »
To continue the thread derail into health care - So happy for OHIP - my doctor-referred physiotherapy is covered, to a point, my upcoming MRI is covered, my knee X-rays and hip bone density scan were covered. My tetanus vaccination was covered, I get my free flu shot every fall, and I was in the right age group for free shingles vaccine.  I do pay for this - my premiums are called taxes.  But any Ontario resident will get the same care.

When DD was born we were in Quebec, and she got jaundice, so we were in hospital for 4 or 5 days.  Otherwise it would have been 3, I was an elderly primigravida and I had a long labour.  We had a nurse visit a week or so after we were home, to see how we were doing and do the urine test for phenylketonuria.  I had follow-up visits with my ob/gyn and she went to our GP and the CLSC.


marielle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2896 on: May 05, 2017, 09:26:33 AM »
Just found out that my boyfriend's parents have kept his and his sister's crib all these years so that their grandchildren could use it one day. 28 years now. They're upset because they actually had to throw it away due to water getting in the basement and rusting it. I could understand keeping some toys and things that you can't buy anymore...but a crib!? They claim it was not for sentimental reasons, and that it is because it was a perfectly good crib that someone else should get to enjoy. Right, that's why you kept it for your grandchildren and not for some other family. The amount of junk this family holds on to is insane.

What if they don't even have grandchildren?

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2897 on: May 05, 2017, 10:03:39 AM »
My dad made a cradle that all 4 of his grandkids used, and it is now in storage waiting for great grandchildren.  (He is a carpenter).  I think he made a little engraved plaque with all the babies' names on it that is now on it.

So, although smaller than a crib, same idea, and I get it.

Ann

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2898 on: May 05, 2017, 11:14:56 AM »
Just found out that my boyfriend's parents have kept his and his sister's crib all these years so that their grandchildren could use it one day. 28 years now. They're upset because they actually had to throw it away due to water getting in the basement and rusting it. I could understand keeping some toys and things that you can't buy anymore...but a crib!? They claim it was not for sentimental reasons, and that it is because it was a perfectly good crib that someone else should get to enjoy. Right, that's why you kept it for your grandchildren and not for some other family. The amount of junk this family holds on to is insane.

What if they don't even have grandchildren?
Aww!  But the sad thing is that it WAS a perfectly good crib that someone else could've enjoyed . . . 28 years ago.  If they had started passing it along to friends and acquaintances, they would have maintained the spirit of their impulse and helped out the community.  Instead, they kept it for their grandchildren only and ended up with garbage.  :-(

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2899 on: May 05, 2017, 02:30:38 PM »
Yeah. There is no early way I'm paying $27k.
The hospital said it is 120 days until it goes to collections. So I'll pay it in 119 if they haven't worked it out.
Clearing up a trashed credit score would be harder than a refund...

So, if the insurance company doesn't like the coding, get the specifics of what they want, then take it to the provider (hospital). Spoon feed it to them and have them resubmit. No, things shouldn't work this way. Yes, sometimes they do.
The insurance is in the wrong. I went down to the hospital and they showed it to me, and it's exactly what insurance is asking for. Hospital cannot resend it because it would be a duplicate.

Ok, that's different. Call insurance, ask them to re-process that claim, or file an appeal if that's what they need (depends on their process). If you get an appeal denied, then file a complaint with the State Department of Insurance (should do the appeal first). DOI complaints go to a different area and get a fresh set of eyes. Plus, there's real, negative consequences to those complaints - they don't get ignored.

Tell the hospital you're working on it, give them whatever docs they need so you don't go to collection. Edit: or just pay the bill before it goes to collections, but I'd avoid that if possible.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 02:33:58 PM by Sibley »