Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1039852 times)

RWD

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1673
  • Location: Mississippi
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2650 on: February 14, 2017, 01:17:38 PM »
<truncated, "It is a really pretty car">

Was I too harsh?  I feel awfully judge-y, but they live barely paycheck-to-paycheck as is.

I don't think you were too harsh. Sounds like quite a waste of money for their situation. Cadillacs aren't even that great of cars anymore. Reliability is pretty poor, for example: http://www.truedelta.com/Cadillac/brand-reliability-Cadillac

Vindicated

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1135
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Indianapolis
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2651 on: February 14, 2017, 01:27:58 PM »
<truncated, "It is a really pretty car">

Was I too harsh?  I feel awfully judge-y, but they live barely paycheck-to-paycheck as is.

I don't think you were too harsh. Sounds like quite a waste of money for their situation. Cadillacs aren't even that great of cars anymore. Reliability is pretty poor, for example: http://www.truedelta.com/Cadillac/brand-reliability-Cadillac

Yeah, he also mentioned there would be no warranty.  I asked him how they would pay for repairs, and he said that they wouldn't be driving it often, so it'd be fine.  THEN WHY BUY IT!?!?  *sigh*
My MMM Journal: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/my-almost-perfect-life-experience/

"Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck. - Dalai Lama

Just Joe

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2652 on: February 14, 2017, 02:12:40 PM »
Nothing wrong with discouraging this sort of behavior. Their problems could otherwise become your problems. Paycheck to paycheck is a young man's game when you are healthy and have no stuff ad can crash on someone's couch.

Dave1442397

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 596
  • Location: NJ
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2653 on: February 14, 2017, 03:19:49 PM »
My parents have no retirement savings, although my Dad expects a reasonable pension in a few years.  He figures that with the pension and SS, they'll be alright on paying bills.  That's fine.

Then he calls me yesterday and asks me to drop by after work to see the car he's thinking about buying, because he's afraid his work truck is going to bite the dust sometime soon.  It's a used Cadillac.

I spent an hour or so that evening sending him links to used trucks and cars that were half the cost and similar mileage of the Cadillac.  I also found that the price on the Cadillac was >$1000 over KBB value for buying from a dealer.

He said he was going to see if they would drop the price to match KBB... he's probably going to buy it.  Ugh

Was I too harsh?  I feel awfully judge-y, but they live barely paycheck-to-paycheck as is.

If it's a 2008 or 2009 CTS, run away. If it's a 4-wheel drive car, run away no matter what model it is. The CTS forums are riddled with drive shaft failures and crankcase failures costing anywhere from $4500 to $8000 to fix.

I got lucky with my 2010 CTS (rear wheel drive). I've only had to replace the alternator and two wheel bearings in 86k miles.

My FIL, on the other hand, asked me for advice about a few different cars, and then went out and bought a 2008 CTS. It only has 50k miles on it now, and has needed around $7k worth of repairs outside the warranty period. The most recent was the high pressure fuel pump, replaced for almost $800.

My next car will be a Lexus.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 03:22:19 PM by Dave1442397 »

gimp

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2360
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2654 on: February 14, 2017, 05:26:00 PM »
OK, it's time to rescue the Scholar. This situation just can't be allowed to exist.

...

If it's OK for Bill and Jane to live in the pimp-in-law's house, eat the pimp-in-law's food, and live at the pimp-in-law's expense as a pair of butthurt basement dwellers, it's OK for other people to mention that it's happening and to perhaps comment on it. If the people involved do something besides swell with pride, then maybe it's time for them to reconsider their role in the situation.

[under his breath] holy shit

Vindicated

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1135
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Indianapolis
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2655 on: February 14, 2017, 06:50:38 PM »
My parents have no retirement savings, although my Dad expects a reasonable pension in a few years.  He figures that with the pension and SS, they'll be alright on paying bills.  That's fine.

Then he calls me yesterday and asks me to drop by after work to see the car he's thinking about buying, because he's afraid his work truck is going to bite the dust sometime soon.  It's a used Cadillac.

I spent an hour or so that evening sending him links to used trucks and cars that were half the cost and similar mileage of the Cadillac.  I also found that the price on the Cadillac was >$1000 over KBB value for buying from a dealer.

He said he was going to see if they would drop the price to match KBB... he's probably going to buy it.  Ugh

Was I too harsh?  I feel awfully judge-y, but they live barely paycheck-to-paycheck as is.

If it's a 2008 or 2009 CTS, run away. If it's a 4-wheel drive car, run away no matter what model it is. The CTS forums are riddled with drive shaft failures and crankcase failures costing anywhere from $4500 to $8000 to fix.

I got lucky with my 2010 CTS (rear wheel drive). I've only had to replace the alternator and two wheel bearings in 86k miles.

My FIL, on the other hand, asked me for advice about a few different cars, and then went out and bought a 2008 CTS. It only has 50k miles on it now, and has needed around $7k worth of repairs outside the warranty period. The most recent was the high pressure fuel pump, replaced for almost $800.

My next car will be a Lexus.

Woohoo!  He didn't buy the car!

He said he took the car back, and looked at cheaper options.  He couldn't find anything yet, driving lot to lot, so I'm going to help him this weekend.  I told him he just needs to get on Craig's List, but he doesn't know what that is, ofc.  No problem, I'm happy to help!
My MMM Journal: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/my-almost-perfect-life-experience/

"Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck. - Dalai Lama

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3672
  • Age: 9
  • Warned Member
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2656 on: February 14, 2017, 06:58:06 PM »
The car rental place messed up a couple months ago, so we ended up getting a fully loaded CTS for a week. I cannot speak for the reliability, but it was an awesome car to drive around in. Quiet, very comfortable, luxurious but not too flashy. I felt like a million bucks in that thing. I can totally see how a non-Mustachian would start writing checks.


FIT_Goat

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 114
  • Location: Florida
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2657 on: February 14, 2017, 07:10:02 PM »
Yikes. I think everyone in my family has taken advantage of subsidized family living arrangements at some point, but there was always both an end in sight and a benefit for both parties. For example:

-Cousin gets divorced and needs to get back on her feet. Lives with great-grandma who is starting not to be able to be alone. Both win; no one is taken advantage of.
-I want to save up so I don't go in debt for my masters. Grandpa wants to rent out a room since he's lonely in his house since grandma died. Both win!
-Sister has run up more student debt than she can handle. Rents at my parents' place while she pays things off and does some home renovations for them.
-Brother ends up in a bad living situation. Moves in with husband and me. He pays cheap rent; we benefit from cheap rent and an unlimited supply of board games.
-Another cousin out of work moves into another great-grandma's house and provides end of life care that the entire family appreciates.

I could go on and on. In none of these cases were any of us ashamed or secretive about what we did. Lying and wanting others to lie for you is a good sign what you're doing is wrong.

Yeah, the lies and secrecy is a major bad sign.  I've currently got my MIL living with us.  After my FIL died, she was unhappy living alone.  It's not really financial, she could afford to live on her own, but she wants people around her.  I don't mind her, and my wife is her closest child.  So, it's no big deal.  She does provide some money to cover the increased expenses.  Plus, we moved into a larger house, in part, to have more room for everyone.  Still, it's clear that the house is my wife's and mine.  We could afford it on my salary alone, not even including my wife's income.  We're not relying on her support.  Likewise, she's not reliant on us.  If she wanted, she could afford to move out and get her own place.

It's not a bad arrangement.  LOL, although when people hear that I moved my MIL into my house, they think I am whipped.  There's no hiding.  There's no shame.  It's just an arrangement that works for us.

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
    • The Live-In Landlord
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2658 on: February 15, 2017, 01:11:28 AM »
Yikes. I think everyone in my family has taken advantage of subsidized family living arrangements at some point, but there was always both an end in sight and a benefit for both parties. For example:

-Cousin gets divorced and needs to get back on her feet. Lives with great-grandma who is starting not to be able to be alone. Both win; no one is taken advantage of.
-I want to save up so I don't go in debt for my masters. Grandpa wants to rent out a room since he's lonely in his house since grandma died. Both win!
-Sister has run up more student debt than she can handle. Rents at my parents' place while she pays things off and does some home renovations for them.
-Brother ends up in a bad living situation. Moves in with husband and me. He pays cheap rent; we benefit from cheap rent and an unlimited supply of board games.
-Another cousin out of work moves into another great-grandma's house and provides end of life care that the entire family appreciates.

I could go on and on. In none of these cases were any of us ashamed or secretive about what we did. Lying and wanting others to lie for you is a good sign what you're doing is wrong.

Yeah, the lies and secrecy is a major bad sign.  I've currently got my MIL living with us.  After my FIL died, she was unhappy living alone.  It's not really financial, she could afford to live on her own, but she wants people around her.  I don't mind her, and my wife is her closest child.  So, it's no big deal.  She does provide some money to cover the increased expenses.  Plus, we moved into a larger house, in part, to have more room for everyone.  Still, it's clear that the house is my wife's and mine.  We could afford it on my salary alone, not even including my wife's income.  We're not relying on her support.  Likewise, she's not reliant on us.  If she wanted, she could afford to move out and get her own place.

It's not a bad arrangement.  LOL, although when people hear that I moved my MIL into my house, they think I am whipped.  There's no hiding.  There's no shame.  It's just an arrangement that works for us.

Group living is not shameful, especially when it's "win-win" for everyone involved. Lying to cover up someone else's lies and defective behavior definitely is. Nobody wins and everyone looks and feels stupid.
I squeak softly, but carry a big schtick.

Vindicated

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1135
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Indianapolis
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2659 on: February 15, 2017, 06:05:53 AM »
The car rental place messed up a couple months ago, so we ended up getting a fully loaded CTS for a week. I cannot speak for the reliability, but it was an awesome car to drive around in. Quiet, very comfortable, luxurious but not too flashy. I felt like a million bucks in that thing. I can totally see how a non-Mustachian would start writing checks.

Oh yeah, I drove it.  It rode great, and did make you feel like you've "made it".  I could see the temptation.  I'm just glad I've discovered MMM, so I could offer the advice that I did.
My MMM Journal: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/my-almost-perfect-life-experience/

"Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck. - Dalai Lama

zolotiyeruki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2316
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2660 on: February 15, 2017, 08:10:06 AM »
...
Me: "So, you're going to raise your payments $250/mo, and your debt to $25k, for a car you don't need?"
Dad: "Your Mom's always wanted a Cadillac"
...

Me: "Not yet, why don't you just put that $250/mo in a savings account, and if/when your truck dies, you can use that savings to buy something with cash?"
Dad: "It is a really pretty car"
...
Yeesh, avoiding the question much?

HairyUpperLip

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 894
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2661 on: February 15, 2017, 08:40:46 AM »
.

Cadillac's kinda suck.

They aren't even considered "high-end luxury"  They are a mid-tier luxury brand.

I hope this works out well. If they insist on the car, then try to steer then towards something actually worth having like a Lexus.


Just Joe

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2662 on: February 15, 2017, 10:22:51 AM »
I'd argue that the Caddy and Lincolns are nice but not that much nicer than an Accord/Camry/Avalon/Fusion/Impala/etc.

Quiet interiors and horsepower are the two biggest differences between our well-aged frugal cars and the newer choices in family sedans.

LalsConstant

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 439
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2663 on: February 16, 2017, 06:16:22 AM »
So my apartment lease is coming up soon and I am currently investigating another rental unit which has one fewer amenities and is a bit smaller.  I did the same thing when my last lease came up and it was one of the best moves I could have made.  I have decided until I am in a position to buy a place to live I am just going to keep doing this.  It is not true minimalism but I discovered there are a lot of benefits to downsizing and purging unnecessary possessions.  I do this thing where I fight viciously to keep my absolute dollar volume spending level the same as it ever was and part of how I do it is I make gradual lifestyle downgrades.  So in 5 years my monthly budget has only gone up $100.

The unit I am considering would be about $100 less per month, which in terms of my goals is huge.  That extra little bit would shave a considerable amount of time off some of my objectives.  I honestly value the money more than the apartment at this point in my life.

Short version is my family members heard about this and expressed I must be insane, did you lose your job, just get a loan if you need money, etc.  Le sigh.

Joggernot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
  • Age: 72
  • Location: Gulf Coast, TX
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2664 on: February 16, 2017, 07:17:34 AM »
So my apartment lease...
I'm impressed with your "name".  Wish I could understand the math...:)

Guava

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 199
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2665 on: February 19, 2017, 02:07:47 PM »
We were at BILs recently and they have been trying to heat their house with the fireplace to reduce their natural gas bill and electric bills. They use a starter log every time the fire gets low so it burns better because they don't have any kindling. They live on several wooded acres. I asked why they didn't prepare a stock in the fall from the woods. They said the starter log is the only thing that works to keep a fire going...

Just Joe

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2666 on: February 19, 2017, 03:27:54 PM »
A dollar every time they want to start the fireplace? Good grief. ;)

They need tutoring by a good cub scout. My former boy scout and I have competitions - who can start a campfire with a single match? Yeah he could probably do it without a match but rubbing two stick together takes too long. ;)


zolotiyeruki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2316
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2667 on: February 19, 2017, 07:03:03 PM »
A dollar every time they want to start the fireplace? Good grief. ;)

They need tutoring by a good cub scout. My former boy scout and I have competitions - who can start a campfire with a single match? Yeah he could probably do it without a match but rubbing two stick together takes too long. ;)
As a scoutmaster, I did this with the boys in my troop.  You get one match.  Fire doesn't start?  That means you did something wrong.  You've got five minutes to rework your fire before I'll give you another match :)

bigalsmith101

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 522
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Lake Stevens, WA
  • Yes, that's really my face.
    • No Jobs, No Responsibilities, No Better Time then Now
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2668 on: February 19, 2017, 11:31:10 PM »
My brother-in-law is self employed, and works with his father.

My brother-in-law earns 40% of the total income while my father in law earns 60%. It's perfectly reasonable, as all the tools of the trade, transportation, contacts and experience are a result of the father in law.

My brother-in-law is looking to buy a home in our market, and as a self employed individual, has to show a few years of work history to be considered for a mortgage.

This year, come tax time, I found out that upon the advice from his father, my brother-in-law deliberately over stated his income when filing his taxes, to the tune of about $6-7k. The purpose was to make his income look more appealing to the banks when he applies for mortgages. This will increase his tax liability by about $1200-$1500.

The sole benefit of this ridiculous action was my father-in-law, as he now will claim lower income, and have a lower tax liability. My wife and I are uncertain as to whether my father-in-law was trying to give his son good advice, but we are certain that he knew his tax liability would decrease if his son followed his advice.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: It should be noted that the son, age 25, lives with his parents and has not significantly contributed in the past 5 years to rent or food. My in-laws are growing increasingly more antsy subsidizing him this way, and are actively pressuring him to move out.
I spent the first 6 years of "real" life in a self imposed semi retirement, to secure a lifetime of stories. Now it's time to secure the next lifetime through the badassity of FI.

"I achieved such a high level of badassity I just don't realize how normal people miss the whole process." --Le Barbu

Linda_Norway

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1910
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2669 on: February 20, 2017, 03:42:40 AM »
We were at BILs recently and they have been trying to heat their house with the fireplace to reduce their natural gas bill and electric bills. They use a starter log every time the fire gets low so it burns better because they don't have any kindling. They live on several wooded acres. I asked why they didn't prepare a stock in the fall from the woods. They said the starter log is the only thing that works to keep a fire going...

Is this an open fireplace? This heats up for outside air for like 85% of it's heat. A modern, closed wood stove is the thing for getting a warm house.

I do admit that I use a fire starter brake-off block for lighting the fire. On the other hand, that is all we spend on making fire in our stove, as we cut our own trees. We usually make a new pile in spring for the next winter.

Torran

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 375
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2670 on: February 20, 2017, 04:32:33 AM »
One of the major regrets in my life is taking so much (money (mostly for education) and living in their house way after 18) from my parents, because not it feels like I "owe" them. The thing I would love to do over in my life is ever living at home again after I started university. My mother's "love language" is gifts, but that's also her transactional "you owe me" language. I went to private school with lots of extras, I barely had to get any student loans, I did a postgrad course while living at home... And I would give it all back in a heartbeat if I could be free of the sense of obligation. I can forgive myself for all the stuff I asked for (and didn't ask for) and got as a child, because children don't know any better. But I wish I'd realised before age about 24 that the money wasn't worth the emotional toll, and that I'd been brave enough to do something about it. If you have parents who don't make love or gifts conditional, I hope you are grateful for them every single day of your life.

Yep, I had brilliant parents who have helped me financially so much, and they never held it over me. Me and my brother got a very even split of money and help.

However the guilt is very real! :) I feel so guilty about how much help I've received and hope that I can repay them in some way, some day. I don't think they'll ever need my help financially (although ofcourse I would offer it if they did) but I've tried to live a good life and not cause them too much worry or hassle. And if they ever got sick ofcourse I'd want to be near them and look after them. Apart from that I just live with the guilt, lol. I've told them I'm grateful for it, but should probably do that more often.

PS: I don't think you did anything wrong in accepting what they gave you (especially when younger, we really don't know any better) but it sucks that you have to live with the sense of obligation. It must be difficult to say the least :(

Torran

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 375
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2671 on: February 20, 2017, 04:47:56 AM »
The eldest son of my good friend is a pathological liar, and overall a pretty low grade shitbag, but he is smart, real smart. He headed off to a state university and failed his first semester. He bullshitted his way through academic probation and squeaked through the second semester by a hair. His primary goal during this entire adventure was to be a real successful weed dealer, and he excelled. He then spent the entire next year, on campus, playing the part of a student, and never attended a single class. He was registered, and finished with a 0.0 GPA for the year.  He spent the year moving a ton of dope and never raised an eyebrow in town, like I said, this guy is smooth.  His mom was a big fan of denial, and always brushed off all of his crap as "boys will be boys". Finally, after two years, the school and his parents were no longer buying his lies, and he moved on. He quickly moved into "legitimate" sales, and his first job was screwing the elderly by selling them overpriced, low grade insurance, that they didn't need.

Just shows that smart people will land on their feet, college degree or no.

On the topic of bullshitting your way through college/uni -
When I was 20 I was sitting exams midway through my degree (not finals). I was super-stressed and actually forgot about one of the exams. I just totally forgot to turn up. I was mortified when I realised. I called up the uni and told them what I'd done and they insisted I'd sat the exam. When I got the results, they'd given me a pass grade. For an exam I didn't sit. It kind of made me wonder how legit the whole university thing was.

*Goes home to check legitimacy of degree certificate*

With This Herring

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
  • Location: New York STATE, not city
  • TANSTAAFL!
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2672 on: February 20, 2017, 10:57:00 AM »
We were at BILs recently and they have been trying to heat their house with the fireplace to reduce their natural gas bill and electric bills. They use a starter log every time the fire gets low so it burns better because they don't have any kindling. They live on several wooded acres. I asked why they didn't prepare a stock in the fall from the woods. They said the starter log is the only thing that works to keep a fire going...

If only someone could develop some sort of new, better fire that could burn wood, paper, houses...  Oh well.  We don't live in some sort of science fiction world!   /s

Seriously, they don't have any newspaper to get the embers going before they chuck some wood in there?  Or do they solely burn starter logs?

Why do they have trouble burning things?  Is there possibly a ventilation issue?  If they hadn't used their fireplace before this season, is there creosote buildup that might cause a chimney fire?

+1 for Linda_Norway's wood stove suggestion.
Because your toaster got hacked because you tried to watch porn on your blender.

6-year CPA currently on hiatus.  Botched this.  Working again. 
Go soak your beans.  You know you keep forgetting.

gimp

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2360
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2673 on: February 20, 2017, 02:01:23 PM »
For what it's worth, you don't start fires by rubbing two sticks together, you sorta spin one stick inside the hole of another stick.

Check it out

Also, fireplaces are terrible at heating a house. Like, to the point where really inefficient fireplaces basically make things colder. Fireplaces are strictly decorative unless the house is really old or they were built to be a pretty stove. If they want to warm their house by burning wood, they should be using a stove to do it. And even those I think are generally sort of inefficient.

Guava

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 199
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2674 on: February 20, 2017, 04:02:08 PM »
Is this an open fireplace? This heats up for outside air for like 85% of it's heat. A modern, closed wood stove is the thing for getting a warm house.
Yes it is an open fireplace. It does a horrible job heating anything but maybe two feet in front of it, which is where I was the whole time. The other problem is they have peaked ceilings in a log cabin house with no insulation. Really, they just have a lot working against them. It's kind of their thing...

If only someone could develop some sort of new, better fire that could burn wood, paper, houses...  Oh well.  We don't live in some sort of science fiction world!   /s

Seriously, they don't have any newspaper to get the embers going before they chuck some wood in there?  Or do they solely burn starter logs?

Why do they have trouble burning things?  Is there possibly a ventilation issue?  If they hadn't used their fireplace before this season, is there creosote buildup that might cause a chimney fire?

+1 for Linda_Norway's wood stove suggestion.

They do not solely burn starter logs. If they keep it going they can throw some logs they bought in there (yes they live in the woods and buy wood split wood so they don't have to split it).

I have no idea why they have so much trouble.  They have used the fireplace before. I mostly think they just forget about it and then it dies out and the starter log gets it back going.

Step37

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 194
  • Age: 43
  • Location: AB, Canada
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2675 on: February 20, 2017, 04:49:57 PM »
We were at BILs recently and they have been trying to heat their house with the fireplace to reduce their natural gas bill and electric bills. They use a starter log every time the fire gets low so it burns better because they don't have any kindling. They live on several wooded acres. I asked why they didn't prepare a stock in the fall from the woods. They said the starter log is the only thing that works to keep a fire going...

Is this an open fireplace? This heats up for outside air for like 85% of it's heat. A modern, closed wood stove is the thing for getting a warm house.

I do admit that I use a fire starter brake-off block for lighting the fire. On the other hand, that is all we spend on making fire in our stove, as we cut our own trees. We usually make a new pile in spring for the next winter.

My sister and BIL use ONLY the fire logs (Duraflame, I think). I was horrified without even knowing the cost, which I've now looked up (and doubled my horror!). Looks like around $10 PER LOG... and they were burning two or three a day while I was visiting last month. "Why don't you buy firewood from the garden centre DOWN THE STREET?" "Oh, it doesn't stay lit, so we just get these." Gee, I wonder why you're in the red every.single.month. Ack.
"Not wanting something is as good as possessing it." ~Donald Horban

TomTX

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2713
  • Location: Texas
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2676 on: February 20, 2017, 07:06:29 PM »
A dollar every time they want to start the fireplace? Good grief. ;)

They need tutoring by a good cub scout. My former boy scout and I have competitions - who can start a campfire with a single match? Yeah he could probably do it without a match but rubbing two stick together takes too long. ;)

What? Getting it lit with one match isn't a competition.

Seeing who can boil a coffee can of water first is a competition.

You get: One chunk of wood, hatchet, pocketknife, 1 match.

...probably not allowed these days. Now that I think about it, getting boys to race using hatchets and knives may not be seen as the safest thing. Never had an injury that I know of though.
Credit card signup bonuses:

$150 bonus on $500 spend for Chase Freedom:
https://www.referyourchasecard.com/2/MU4TDQ1N3K

$50 bonus (no min spend, just use it once) plus double all cash back at the end of 1 year for Discover, including the initial $50:
https://refer.discover.com/s/37e3u

$500 bonus on $4,000 spend for Chase Sapphire Preferred:
https://www.referyourchasecard.com/6/Z8JIP66H7G

TomTX

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2713
  • Location: Texas
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2677 on: February 20, 2017, 07:08:18 PM »
We were at BILs recently and they have been trying to heat their house with the fireplace to reduce their natural gas bill and electric bills. They use a starter log every time the fire gets low so it burns better because they don't have any kindling. They live on several wooded acres. I asked why they didn't prepare a stock in the fall from the woods. They said the starter log is the only thing that works to keep a fire going...

Is this an open fireplace? This heats up for outside air for like 85% of it's heat. A modern, closed wood stove is the thing for getting a warm house.

I do admit that I use a fire starter brake-off block for lighting the fire. On the other hand, that is all we spend on making fire in our stove, as we cut our own trees. We usually make a new pile in spring for the next winter.

Break off blocks are nice. Make your own from a cardboard egg carton, sawdust and/or dryer lint and surplus cooking grease.
Credit card signup bonuses:

$150 bonus on $500 spend for Chase Freedom:
https://www.referyourchasecard.com/2/MU4TDQ1N3K

$50 bonus (no min spend, just use it once) plus double all cash back at the end of 1 year for Discover, including the initial $50:
https://refer.discover.com/s/37e3u

$500 bonus on $4,000 spend for Chase Sapphire Preferred:
https://www.referyourchasecard.com/6/Z8JIP66H7G

BDWW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 311
  • Location: MT
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2678 on: February 21, 2017, 01:31:52 AM »
It sounds like they don't care to solve the issue, but if anyone else is interested, rocket mass stoves are pretty much as efficient as it gets for wood heat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_mass_heater

gaja

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 809
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2679 on: February 21, 2017, 03:11:50 AM »
We had an open fireplace in our last house. It let all the heat out, and the soot came everywhere. DH found an Dovre Phoenix insert on our equivalent to craigslist. The difference was incredible; we could heat the entire house with that thing. Easy to install, too. http://dovre.be/en-be/products/phoenixi
Travelling to 71 Northern Latitude in an electric car: http://travelelectric.blogspot.no/

Linda_Norway

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1910
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2680 on: February 21, 2017, 05:40:36 AM »
We live with a lot of trees around the house and have cut our own fire wood for the house for 17 years of so. But we also have a cabin which is 5 hours driving from home. There we buy fire wood. The reason is that it wouldn't fit into the car to bring many sacks of wood. And renting a trailer and driving a long distance back and forth with a trailer costs a lot of fuel, in a country where fuel costs many times as much as in the USA. Therefore we buy it locally from a farmer. The last couple of times from someone who sells it way below the normal marked price. I still think it's a pretty good deal, although we don't use our own hands to chop it.

merula

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 850
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2681 on: February 21, 2017, 07:01:10 AM »
Break off blocks are nice. Make your own from a cardboard egg carton, sawdust and/or dryer lint and surplus cooking grease.

Or, if you use your surplus cooking grease for more cooking, candle wax will also work. As in, you can save the drips and puddles of wax and the burnt-out stubs of candles, melt that all together and pour it over the dryer lint/sawdust.

The only problem is, before my fire gets going, it smells like gardenia.

Linda_Norway

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1910
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2682 on: February 21, 2017, 08:07:43 AM »

Or, if you use your surplus cooking grease for more cooking, candle wax will also work. As in, you can save the drips and puddles of wax and the burnt-out stubs of candles, melt that all together and pour it over the dryer lint/sawdust.

The only problem is, before my fire gets going, it smells like gardenia.

I use old candle stubs to make new candles. I have a few candle shapes and some rope. It works pretty well.

chaskavitch

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 190
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Fort Collins, CO
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2683 on: February 21, 2017, 08:58:51 AM »
Break off blocks are nice. Make your own from a cardboard egg carton, sawdust and/or dryer lint and surplus cooking grease.

Or, if you use your surplus cooking grease for more cooking, candle wax will also work. As in, you can save the drips and puddles of wax and the burnt-out stubs of candles, melt that all together and pour it over the dryer lint/sawdust.

The only problem is, before my fire gets going, it smells like gardenia.

You can also use petroleum jelly and cotton balls for firestarters.  We moved to that after DH tried to make the lint/wax/egg carton ones.  OMG what a terrible mess. 

I never thought of using cooking grease, we have an excessive amount of bacon grease in our fridge (I can't decide if it is embarrassing or amazing how much bacon we eat.  I <3 eggs cooked in bacon grease, yum.)

GilbertB

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 118
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Gent
    • Sci-fi Meandering
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2684 on: February 24, 2017, 02:44:28 PM »
Dad get heritage from selling parent's house.
Spends most getting out of debt.
Does he invest the rest?
Nope, buys a sports car, because he "deserves" it...

dreaming

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Age: 44
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2685 on: March 02, 2017, 01:01:51 PM »
My sister has never been able to save money.  Spends everything she makes and then some.  A lot of some.  She is 46.  She is married with 4 kids aged 13 to 20.  Over the years, her and her DH have created a hole that may never get climbed out of.  I can't even say how many 10's of thousands of CC debt they have had.  Paid some off when they refinanced their home only to build it back up (house is currently underwater).  Their kids go to a private high school.  The only reason they can "afford" it is because they get a lot of aid because they are probably the poorest family who goes there.   However, they are behind on paying the school.  Had to come up with $10,000 last August just so 3 of the kids could go there this school year.  They live in a LCOL area and combined make about $110,000 which should be plenty of money to live on.  They are now getting a divorce.  DH moved out to an apartment with a rent that is more than their mortgage.  He has not given my sister much and so she is behind on the mortgage.  I would be willing to bet a foreclosure is in the future.  However with all the money woes, my sister does not hold back on spending.  Her and 3 of the kids just drove to Omaha to visit the kid in college for 4 days.  And the college kid will be going home tomorrow for a week!  I talked to my sister the other day and she was on her way to a restaurant because the margaritas are half price.  I don't say anything to her because my unsolicited advice will either fall on deaf ears or make her mad.  BUT, she will get an earful if she ever asks me to borrow her money.   My parents and I both have gotten numerous calls from debt collectors and I know their wages are already garnished.  I don't know how the stress of it all is not killing them (maybe it is).  I know I would be a mess if it was me.

Her situation could easily have been foreshadowed from a comment she made about 15 years ago when in conversation I said I was saving about $600/mo in a 401k.  Her reply: "That's ridiculous!"   
 
Her soon to be ex DH is not any better.  His philosophy is to live for today.  No need to save for tomorrow.  SMH!

Vindicated

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1135
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Indianapolis
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2686 on: March 02, 2017, 02:19:53 PM »
My sister has never been able to save money.  Spends everything she makes and then some.  A lot of some.  She is 46.  She is married with 4 kids aged 13 to 20.  Over the years, her and her DH have created a hole that may never get climbed out of.  I can't even say how many 10's of thousands of CC debt they have had.  Paid some off when they refinanced their home only to build it back up (house is currently underwater).  Their kids go to a private high school.  The only reason they can "afford" it is because they get a lot of aid because they are probably the poorest family who goes there.   However, they are behind on paying the school.  Had to come up with $10,000 last August just so 3 of the kids could go there this school year.  They live in a LCOL area and combined make about $110,000 which should be plenty of money to live on.  They are now getting a divorce.  DH moved out to an apartment with a rent that is more than their mortgage.  He has not given my sister much and so she is behind on the mortgage.  I would be willing to bet a foreclosure is in the future.  However with all the money woes, my sister does not hold back on spending.  Her and 3 of the kids just drove to Omaha to visit the kid in college for 4 days.  And the college kid will be going home tomorrow for a week!  I talked to my sister the other day and she was on her way to a restaurant because the margaritas are half price.  I don't say anything to her because my unsolicited advice will either fall on deaf ears or make her mad.  BUT, she will get an earful if she ever asks me to borrow her money.   My parents and I both have gotten numerous calls from debt collectors and I know their wages are already garnished.  I don't know how the stress of it all is not killing them (maybe it is).  I know I would be a mess if it was me.

Her situation could easily have been foreshadowed from a comment she made about 15 years ago when in conversation I said I was saving about $600/mo in a 401k.  Her reply: "That's ridiculous!"   
 
Her soon to be ex DH is not any better.  His philosophy is to live for today.  No need to save for tomorrow.  SMH!

Oh... wow.  I know it's difficult to talk to her about it, but you should really try.  Ask her if you can help her build a budget and start her newly single life out right.

My Brother is in pretty bad shape, but I don't think that bad (but he might be).  He doesn't make much, barely pays bills, but bought a Jeep on credit a few months ago, and routinely spends hundreds on mobile "pay-to-win" type games.  Even though it's not comfortable, I keep talking to him about it, and I'm hoping he comes around.
My MMM Journal: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/my-almost-perfect-life-experience/

"Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck. - Dalai Lama

onehair

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 362
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2687 on: March 09, 2017, 10:40:49 AM »
So my mom has gone ahead and sent Aunt D*** a snailmail letter detailing my uncle and aunt's various escapades, moneygrubbing and generalized f*ckery before and after my grandmother's death.  At this time she has received no reply from her. She has also decided to stop paying my aunt's cellphone bill which I asked her to do months ago but better late than never I say.  She says as of now she has heard nothing from the three of them and is considering what to do about the house now.




Guava

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 199
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2688 on: March 09, 2017, 12:47:18 PM »
Found out my chronically bad with money aunt has three storage units and is about to lose them all. This isn't the first time. Meanwhile I posted something for sale on Facebook and she wants it...

Vindicated

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1135
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Indianapolis
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2689 on: March 09, 2017, 12:56:01 PM »
Found out my chronically bad with money aunt has three storage units and is about to lose them all. This isn't the first time. Meanwhile I posted something for sale on Facebook and she wants it...

Buy up her storage units and sell the goods back to her!

Seriously though, that's out of control.
My MMM Journal: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/my-almost-perfect-life-experience/

"Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck. - Dalai Lama

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5311
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2690 on: March 09, 2017, 01:09:26 PM »

Or, if you use your surplus cooking grease for more cooking, candle wax will also work. As in, you can save the drips and puddles of wax and the burnt-out stubs of candles, melt that all together and pour it over the dryer lint/sawdust.

The only problem is, before my fire gets going, it smells like gardenia.

I use old candle stubs to make new candles. I have a few candle shapes and some rope. It works pretty well.
I used to burn my old rope. Now I use all my rope to make belts and guitar straps that last for years.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

Guava

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 199
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2691 on: March 09, 2017, 03:04:05 PM »
Found out my chronically bad with money aunt has three storage units and is about to lose them all. This isn't the first time. Meanwhile I posted something for sale on Facebook and she wants it...

Buy up her storage units and sell the goods back to her!

Seriously though, that's out of control.

She learned it from her mom. My grandma has 4...and a 2 car garage and 4 bedroom house with a full basement (all packed to the ceiling).

They both clean the house by getting another storage unit and putting the excess there, to never be seen again.

Cookie78

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1709
  • Location: Canada
    • Cookie's Goals
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2692 on: March 09, 2017, 03:09:14 PM »
Found out my chronically bad with money aunt has three storage units and is about to lose them all. This isn't the first time. Meanwhile I posted something for sale on Facebook and she wants it...

Buy up her storage units and sell the goods back to her!

Seriously though, that's out of control.

She learned it from her mom. My grandma has 4...and a 2 car garage and 4 bedroom house with a full basement (all packed to the ceiling).

They both clean the house by getting another storage unit and putting the excess there, to never be seen again.

That's unreal!

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2881
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2693 on: March 09, 2017, 03:12:34 PM »
One of the major regrets in my life is taking so much (money (mostly for education) and living in their house way after 18) from my parents, because not it feels like I "owe" them. The thing I would love to do over in my life is ever living at home again after I started university. My mother's "love language" is gifts, but that's also her transactional "you owe me" language. I went to private school with lots of extras, I barely had to get any student loans, I did a postgrad course while living at home... And I would give it all back in a heartbeat if I could be free of the sense of obligation. I can forgive myself for all the stuff I asked for (and didn't ask for) and got as a child, because children don't know any better. But I wish I'd realised before age about 24 that the money wasn't worth the emotional toll, and that I'd been brave enough to do something about it. If you have parents who don't make love or gifts conditional, I hope you are grateful for them every single day of your life.

Yep, I had brilliant parents who have helped me financially so much, and they never held it over me. Me and my brother got a very even split of money and help.

However the guilt is very real! :) I feel so guilty about how much help I've received and hope that I can repay them in some way, some day. I don't think they'll ever need my help financially (although ofcourse I would offer it if they did) but I've tried to live a good life and not cause them too much worry or hassle. And if they ever got sick ofcourse I'd want to be near them and look after them. Apart from that I just live with the guilt, lol. I've told them I'm grateful for it, but should probably do that more often.

PS: I don't think you did anything wrong in accepting what they gave you (especially when younger, we really don't know any better) but it sucks that you have to live with the sense of obligation. It must be difficult to say the least :(

In the same boat.  My parents have insisted over and over again that they expect nothing other than our paying it forward to my kid(s). 
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

Mr. Green

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1436
  • Age: 34
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2694 on: March 09, 2017, 04:13:32 PM »
Found out my chronically bad with money aunt has three storage units and is about to lose them all. This isn't the first time. Meanwhile I posted something for sale on Facebook and she wants it...

Buy up her storage units and sell the goods back to her!

Seriously though, that's out of control.

She learned it from her mom. My grandma has 4...and a 2 car garage and 4 bedroom house with a full basement (all packed to the ceiling).

They both clean the house by getting another storage unit and putting the excess there, to never be seen again.

That's unreal!
That's mentally ill is what that is.
FIRE, Take Two.

mtn

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1265
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2695 on: March 09, 2017, 04:13:36 PM »
One of the major regrets in my life is taking so much (money (mostly for education) and living in their house way after 18) from my parents, because not it feels like I "owe" them. The thing I would love to do over in my life is ever living at home again after I started university. My mother's "love language" is gifts, but that's also her transactional "you owe me" language. I went to private school with lots of extras, I barely had to get any student loans, I did a postgrad course while living at home... And I would give it all back in a heartbeat if I could be free of the sense of obligation. I can forgive myself for all the stuff I asked for (and didn't ask for) and got as a child, because children don't know any better. But I wish I'd realised before age about 24 that the money wasn't worth the emotional toll, and that I'd been brave enough to do something about it. If you have parents who don't make love or gifts conditional, I hope you are grateful for them every single day of your life.

Yep, I had brilliant parents who have helped me financially so much, and they never held it over me. Me and my brother got a very even split of money and help.

However the guilt is very real! :) I feel so guilty about how much help I've received and hope that I can repay them in some way, some day. I don't think they'll ever need my help financially (although ofcourse I would offer it if they did) but I've tried to live a good life and not cause them too much worry or hassle. And if they ever got sick ofcourse I'd want to be near them and look after them. Apart from that I just live with the guilt, lol. I've told them I'm grateful for it, but should probably do that more often.

PS: I don't think you did anything wrong in accepting what they gave you (especially when younger, we really don't know any better) but it sucks that you have to live with the sense of obligation. It must be difficult to say the least :(

In the same boat.  My parents have insisted over and over again that they expect nothing other than our paying it forward to my kid(s).

Same here. My parents expect nothing back and are super generous. Makes my wife uncomfortable when they give us stuff. My wife's family was very conditional with their gifts, IMHO.

Guava

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 199
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2696 on: March 10, 2017, 08:30:22 AM »
Found out my chronically bad with money aunt has three storage units and is about to lose them all. This isn't the first time. Meanwhile I posted something for sale on Facebook and she wants it...

Buy up her storage units and sell the goods back to her!

Seriously though, that's out of control.

She learned it from her mom. My grandma has 4...and a 2 car garage and 4 bedroom house with a full basement (all packed to the ceiling).

They both clean the house by getting another storage unit and putting the excess there, to never be seen again.

That's unreal!
That's mentally ill is what that is.

Yes. For years we have been trying to get my grandmother help but half of her kids don't think she has a problem (I understand this now because they are the same way), a few want nothing to do with her, and the remaining two can only do so much.  I was there a few weeks ago and you could open the front door but had about a 5 inch gap to get around some furniture into the house. It was clearly a fire and fall hazard.  Apparently in the bizarre world I live in, only I saw this as a problem.

Until they admit they have problems, it is almost impossible to help or even manage the problems. They have a strange emotional attachment to things. All things. My grandmother  buys pints and pints of raspberries because her mother had a raspberry bush but she will never eat them. They rot in the fridge beyond recognition. She is attached to magazines about fancy homes yet hers is in dire need of repair. She has a million kitchen gadgets that she might need one day although her kitchen is inaccessible. She can have ten identical items and agree she needs one or two but won't decide what ones to keep until she has found all of them and can then pick the best from there. I will never understand it. She has been really bad for about 20 years. The only way it will end is when my grandpa, in poor health, dies in that house because then she will be found out by the city.

Cassie

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3840
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2697 on: March 10, 2017, 01:06:02 PM »
Hoarding is an illness and really sad.  My wonderful MIL had this and when she died unexpectedly we had to get rid of stuff, etc.  That is usually what happens unless it is so bad the property gets condemned. Hers was not that bad so we were able to sell it once it was cleaned up.   Even if you emptied a home unless the underlying disorder is treated then they would just fill it back up.

Guava

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 199
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2698 on: March 10, 2017, 03:00:47 PM »
Hoarding is an illness and really sad.  My wonderful MIL had this and when she died unexpectedly we had to get rid of stuff, etc.  That is usually what happens unless it is so bad the property gets condemned. Hers was not that bad so we were able to sell it once it was cleaned up.   Even if you emptied a home unless the underlying disorder is treated then they would just fill it back up.

It is, and it affects the whole family a whole lot more than anyone realizes. We have to do a purge every five years or so to keep things manageable because more keeps coming in anyway. When they die the house will be condemned and torn down. It's not zoned residential anymore and the foundation is caving in. Unless we put $20k into it to fix the foundation.

FIT_Goat

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 114
  • Location: Florida
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2699 on: March 10, 2017, 06:15:15 PM »
My mom recently called a meeting with me and my two sisters.  She wanted us to all be clear about what she wanted done, if something happens to her.  She owns two houses.  One of the houses she rents to one of my sisters (Poorsis) for $x a month.  Poorsis must pay a lump sum of $y, if she wants to own the house.  If she hasn't paid it, she owes it to me and Richsis.  The monthly rent does not contribute to this, and it must be paid as a lump-sum.  My sister is allowed to get a mortgage for that amount, when/if her credit improves enough.  There's no worry about this.  My other sister and I have been aware of this agreement for some time, and we don't really care.  Poorsis is getting a fantastic deal on this house ($y is easily less than half the actual value of the house at this time), but it's my mom's house and she doesn't need to be "fair" nor do we ask her to be.  Neither of us consider it to be unfair, really.  If the tables had been turned, it could have been either of us getting that deal.

As for the other house, the one my mom lives in, she wants it to stay in the family and says we each get a third of it.

  • Me: I'll make sure that it stays in the family, but I'm not interested in co-owning a house.  I'll probably just buy out Poorsis's and Richsis's interest in the house.
  • Richsis: Hey! I want a rental property.  We should rent it and split the income.
  • Me: I'm not interested in sharing that sort of arrangement.  If you want it as a rental property, you can buy out my interest in the house.  It's nothing we need to worry about right now, and hopefully not for a long time either.  To be honest, though, with the way we both manage our money, which one of us will most likely be in a position to buy the other person out?
  • Richsis: {brief unhappy glare that quickly passes} True enough.  You'll probably have the cash, and I can always use that for a down-payment on my own property for a rental.  You can buy me out, at fair market value.
  • Me: Of course. Or, you could take a mortgage out on it, and pay me off.  Depends on where we each are and what we want at the time.  I just don't want to try and manage a single-family home with three owners.  I just promise that one of us will keep it, and we won't sell it to a stranger and split the cash.

My mom was happy with that.  And, we talked about other stuff.  I encouraged my mom to get it in a written will, just to make sure.  We love my mom, but none of us really need the house.

Poorsis, despite her nom de guerre, isn't really poor.  She and her husband went through a tough period and they are getting back on their feet.  Their biggest struggle is that they have three kids, and want many more.  They moved into the house while struggling, and have put a lot of sweat-equity into it as well as some real money improving it.  My mom helped them out, and they haven't taken advantage.  She pays a fair rent-price, and wants to keep the house. It's the one we grew up in as kids.

Richsis, despite her nom de guerre, isn't really rich.  She just lives like she is.  Her husband makes more than me and my wife, combined.  She makes even more than her husband.  They have money, tons of it, and they spend it all.  She could, easily, out-save me while living a more luxurious life than I ever could.  She won't.  She bought twice as much house as I have, despite having fewer people to live in it.  They lease (I think) both their cars.  One of the payments is $700 a month.  She spends so much money, and doesn't save much of anything.  I encourage her, all the time, to be wise with her money.  She has an accounting degree and works with budgets all day!  She says she has a budget, in that she doesn't spend more than she brings in.  *sigh*  She's the one who just doesn't get it.  She could be retired and have several rental properties, without my mom's house at all, if she'd change her focus to building that sort of wealth and not living like she's wealthy.

I love both my sisters, and they love me.  We're very direct with each other (as is obvious), but we can be because we all know we love each other and wouldn't screw the others over.