Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 734046 times)

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2450 on: January 20, 2017, 01:32:49 PM »
If you look at it from her view, it's pretty normal for a married couple to get their own room.  This might be her way of saying she wants time alone with her husband.

Oh, sure. But there's a difference between agreeing to "trip to see mom, we'll go to X place, sleep in one hotel room, split the cost" and "trip to see mom, we'll go to X place with Y number of total people, need 2 hotel rooms so we'll each cover one".

There's nothing WRONG with wanting to spend a night with one's spouse. There IS something wrong with unilaterally deciding that you're gonna step out on what was supposed to be a shared bill (one single room, split) because you got a 'better' offer elsewhere, and leaving Person #2 stuck with the whole of the initially-agreed-to-be-split cost and expecting them to not be annoyed at all about it.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2451 on: January 20, 2017, 01:39:02 PM »
If you look at it from her view, it's pretty normal for a married couple to get their own room.  This might be her way of saying she wants time alone with her husband.

That may be, but to have your spouse coming without informing your sibling is a bit crass, especially when it necessitates an extra expense for that sibling.

Then again, I'm a planner and absolutely abhor having plans made only to change up, even if the new plans better suit my needs. Case in point, I'm going to the opera tomorrow night with a group of friends. Original plan was to meet at my house to carpool to dinner and then walk to the theater. Now everyone wants to just meet at the restaurant, which is better for me as I can visit my friend before going to the restaurant (he lives right there), but the irrational planner in me is unhappy at the last second change.

Raenia

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2452 on: January 20, 2017, 02:00:35 PM »
That may be, but to have your spouse coming without informing your sibling is a bit crass, especially when it necessitates an extra expense for that sibling.

Then again, I'm a planner and absolutely abhor having plans made only to change up, even if the new plans better suit my needs. Case in point, I'm going to the opera tomorrow night with a group of friends. Original plan was to meet at my house to carpool to dinner and then walk to the theater. Now everyone wants to just meet at the restaurant, which is better for me as I can visit my friend before going to the restaurant (he lives right there), but the irrational planner in me is unhappy at the last second change.

This exactly.  If she had told me that her husband unexpectedly became available/was able to get the time off work and wanted to come too, I probably would have happily agreed, and modified my budget accordingly.  After all, I like the guy, I was happy to get to spend the vacation with him.  I just didn't appreciate it getting sprung on me with no warning after we had agreed on a single room at a particular price.

I hate surprises, especially expensive ones.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2453 on: January 20, 2017, 03:06:38 PM »
She's always saying, "Why not, you can afford it, you make more than us anyway."  Guess what, that means that you CAN'T afford it, not that I CAN.  Of course, I technically can, but the reason I can is cause I don't.

We should all spend every last dollar we have with the justification of "well, we can afford it!" And then when we're out of dollars we'll still have space on our credit cards to "afford" more things!

Hmm, I think you've hit on something.

I do believe there are people who actually believe "afford" means "can find a way to beg, borrow, or steal enough to get"?
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Cressida

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2454 on: January 21, 2017, 01:08:39 AM »
Case in point, I'm going to the opera tomorrow night with a group of friends. Original plan was to meet at my house to carpool to dinner and then walk to the theater. Now everyone wants to just meet at the restaurant, which is better for me as I can visit my friend before going to the restaurant (he lives right there), but the irrational planner in me is unhappy at the last second change.

Totally off topic, but what's the opera? I'm a fan.  :)

FIT_Goat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2455 on: January 21, 2017, 08:27:10 AM »
I mentioned earlier in this thread about my father and his new $60k  truck.  It turns out it is the Ram ecodiesel 1500.  The model with all the bells and whistles and a toolbox in the bed.  I also think there was some negative equity from his previous truck rolled into it.  So he's getting about 25 mpg for his 200+ mile/day commute.  Still crazy.

Anyway, he helped me with my fence last weekend.  We were talking and he was talking about his new truck and why he loves his.  His GF pointed out that he used to complain about the length of the bed in his old truck, yet this new truck has an even shorter bed.  His reply to that was that this new truck was the Cadillac of trucks.  He's never going to haul anything in it!  If he has a big/messy job that needs to be done, he'll get a trailer and pull it behind the truck.  That way he will not get the new truck all beat up.

My father spent 60 grand on a truck that he intends to never use as a truck!  I don't even know where to begin.

Edit:  I know I am perseverating on this topic.  It's probably because it strikes close to home.  I really wanted a truck about two years ago.   Just a small one, a beater.  I had a $900 pickup when I was in high-school and I loved it.  Of course, I didn't really haul much in it.  I just felt "manly" driving my truck.  I spent some time looking at trucks and comparing them to my current $0/month payment.  Nothing looks good when you compare it to something that's paid off and still runs fine.  So, I avoided that purchase.  I guess, I can see myself in my father's shoes with just a minor shift in earlier decisions.  Maybe not as big of a truck, or nearly as expensive, but still a truck that would barely (if ever) get used as it actually deserves.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 08:39:17 AM by FIT_Goat »

Gerard

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2456 on: January 22, 2017, 05:32:15 AM »
Edit:  I know I am perseverating on this topic. 

As a random internet stranger, I hereby give you permission to perseverate on this issue. That truck has symbolic value well beyond its actual shortcomings or cost. It's the you that you've saved yourself from by having your shit together.
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Zoot

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2457 on: January 22, 2017, 07:29:09 AM »
Edit:  I know I am perseverating on this topic.

Today I learned the word perseverate.  Thanks for the vocab boost!  :)



Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2458 on: January 22, 2017, 08:32:35 AM »
Relative complains about tight money occasionally. Borrows from retired parents occasionally, pays them back I'm sure.

Has good 6 (?) year old car. Job hops a little leaving job with benefits and pension and lands at an auto dealership job several years later. Sells car. Buys newish expensive SUV. Now under a year later sells SUV and buys a more expensive something. A big gas saver. Of course gas is only $2 per gallon here. As often as they change up cars, it won't matter if gas goes up.

Brags to FB that the coworker salesman (their new friend) did them a favor...

All I can think of are the ways dealers can use creative financing to make the impossible happen. This person prob makes $35K/yr?

Also - can't move on from damaged marriage b/c the two spouses can't afford to live apart... Both have car payments and have had irregular employment...

I hope the best for them... Here is the foot, here is a gun. FIRE!

Sofa King

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2459 on: January 22, 2017, 01:32:49 PM »

Also - can't move on from damaged marriage b/c the two spouses can't afford to live apart... Both have car payments and have had irregular employment...



I know several couples that live like this. They don't even like each other (and they have publicly said so).  Talk about growing old and full of resent.  They should choose happiness NOW. The money side of it will work out eventually even if it means a changed lifestyle.   

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2460 on: January 22, 2017, 01:52:48 PM »

Also - can't move on from damaged marriage b/c the two spouses can't afford to live apart... Both have car payments and have had irregular employment...



I know several couples that live like this. They don't even like each other (and they have publicly said so).  Talk about growing old and full of resent.  They should choose happiness NOW. The money side of it will work out eventually even if it means a changed lifestyle.   

I can attest to that. My grandmother in law was impossible to live with, and had an unhappy marriage. After decades she had a blowout argument with her husband, and they split up. The never spoke in the following 30+ years until his death, and she refused to give him a divorce. Sounds like he went on to live a pretty good life. He and his girlfriend regularly traveled the world. When the girlfriend contacted us, to report of a small unclaimed inheritance, the intermediary reported that she was a fascinating, very elderly woman, who was living out her days in a home filled with art and furnishings they had collected around the globe. Guess granny really showed him, LOL.  Her daughter, my MIL, was a nasty bitch. She stayed married, very unhappily, to a great guy, who could never leave. Got to be a good Catholic, ya' know?  He died very early, mid-fifties, and in his final weeks, while wracked with cancer, he was begging his daughter to help him move to an apartment so he could have some peace.  Yea, the world is a F'ed up place. People waste lifetimes together for all kinds of reasons, but money is probable the worst one.

cheapass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2461 on: January 23, 2017, 10:40:50 AM »
Had a gem over the weekend. Not a "relative" but close enough.

Traveled 3 hours to see a friend of mine and I borrowed my parents' Prius for a couple of reasons - 1) wanted to leave our sedan with the wife in case she had to go out with our baby 2) our scion is high mileage and not a great highway driver and 3) Prius gets much better gas mileage.

Anyway, despite my best attempts I was unable to avoid his wife the entire time we were there. The topic came up of why I was driving my parents car so I mentioned I wanted to leave the larger vehicle for transporting the baby. "You know what you need to do? Stop being such a cheapass and upgrade your cars!" "Yeah, well, it's pretty awesome not having a car payment!" That was met with a scowl.

She is unemployed, bought financed a brand new Fiat recently for her 1 hour commute and quit the job after 2 weeks because she didn't like the commute. Kept the Fiat. Spends money like water, bitches about bills, etc. Doesn't stop her from giving financial advice though!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 01:01:14 PM by cheapass »

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2462 on: January 23, 2017, 12:50:17 PM »
Had a gem over the weekend. Not a "relative" but close enough.


The irony of you arriving in a Prius, a car with legendary reliability and low operating costs,  and getting a lecture from somebody dumb enough to by a Fiat, is priceless. Unless you live under a rock, and chose to avoid the intake of any automotive related information, it's pretty hard to avoid the common knowledge that they are one of the worst quality products available in North America at the moment, LOL. Hopefully she has other valuable information, investing advice, homebuying knowledge, etc.... for you? Sounds like a case study in what NOT to do.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 01:40:10 PM by paddedhat »

Drifterrider

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2463 on: January 23, 2017, 12:52:46 PM »
"Why not, you can afford it, you make more than us anyway."  Guess what, that means that you CAN'T afford it, not that I CAN.  Of course, I technically can, but the reason I can is cause I don't.

I'm stealing your line and not giving you credit.  Are we related?

gimp

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2464 on: January 23, 2017, 02:41:28 PM »
His reply to that was that this new truck was the Cadillac of trucks.

Cadillac makes a truck. Based on the Escalade. Yep, take a luxury SUV, and cut off... a full bed? No, just one row to make a tiny tiny bed. The bro-est of brodozers.



You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2465 on: January 23, 2017, 02:46:41 PM »
Isn't that the Chevy Avalanche all dressed up for a formal ball? ;)

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2466 on: January 23, 2017, 02:49:31 PM »
Isn't that the Chevy Avalanche all dressed up for a formal ball? ;)

Basically. And the Avalanche is [functionally] a Honda Ridgeline for people who actually need a "real truck". I've found myself close enough to that category that I've seriously looked at all three, and readily admit that I would love to own an Escalade EXT. Never quite made sense for me though.

People who have them and Avalanches love them.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2467 on: January 23, 2017, 02:54:10 PM »
You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

It's an automotive hermaphrodite.

Could it be the result of a genetic mutation, perhaps? The result of a drunken one-night stand between a truck and a SUV? Or did the production line get badly misconfigured when the union decided to celebrate April Fool's Day? Maybe a golf cart started experimenting with steroids, and this is the result: a (golf) Caddy.

I feel sorry for the miniscule bed. If we water it, do you think it will grow? If not, the owner is destined to never get the bro-cred of being asked to help somebody move. You can't even fit a mattress in there.
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mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2468 on: January 23, 2017, 03:15:33 PM »
You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

It's an automotive hermaphrodite.

Could it be the result of a genetic mutation, perhaps? The result of a drunken one-night stand between a truck and a SUV? Or did the production line get badly misconfigured when the union decided to celebrate April Fool's Day? Maybe a golf cart started experimenting with steroids, and this is the result: a (golf) Caddy.

I feel sorry for the miniscule bed. If we water it, do you think it will grow? If not, the owner is destined to never get the bro-cred of being asked to help somebody move. You can't even fit a mattress in there.

Uh... It is a 5.25 foot bed with the midgate up, and over 8 feet with it down. You can fit a full 4x8 sheet of plywood in it when necessary. I think it is the perfect compromise of pickup and SUV--I almost never needed the full bed size when I had my 3/4 ton Silverado. Actually, not, not almost never, never.


Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2469 on: January 23, 2017, 03:27:31 PM »
You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

It's an automotive hermaphrodite.

Could it be the result of a genetic mutation, perhaps? The result of a drunken one-night stand between a truck and a SUV? Or did the production line get badly misconfigured when the union decided to celebrate April Fool's Day? Maybe a golf cart started experimenting with steroids, and this is the result: a (golf) Caddy.

I feel sorry for the miniscule bed. If we water it, do you think it will grow? If not, the owner is destined to never get the bro-cred of being asked to help somebody move. You can't even fit a mattress in there.

 I saw a couple of trucks they were watering with the CA floods this morn on the news. Word is out whether that will help anything much.

BDWW

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2470 on: January 23, 2017, 04:58:38 PM »
Isn't that the Chevy Avalanche all dressed up for a formal ball? ;)

Basically. And the Avalanche is [functionally] a Honda Ridgeline for people who actually need a "real truck". I've found myself close enough to that category that I've seriously looked at all three, and readily admit that I would love to own an Escalade EXT. Never quite made sense for me though.

People who have them and Avalanches love them.

That's my experience as well, people who have them love them. As others mentioned, the bed works as is, or you can lower the rear seat and make it a long bed. The back has a built in locking cover. I've friends that put a mattress in the back and use it camping, with their heads in the cab, and bodies in the bed.

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2471 on: January 23, 2017, 06:46:17 PM »
Isn't that the Chevy Avalanche all dressed up for a formal ball? ;)

Basically. And the Avalanche is [functionally] a Honda Ridgeline for people who actually need a "real truck". I've found myself close enough to that category that I've seriously looked at all three, and readily admit that I would love to own an Escalade EXT. Never quite made sense for me though.

People who have them and Avalanches love them.

My neighbor has an Avalanche (his third) and loves them. He has a business making and installing diving boards, and apparently this is the vehicle that works best for him.

To make this antimustachian, he bought a new Avalanche (in white) a few years ago, and had it for a few weeks. I walk the dog by his house every morning, so I noticed that he had hit something - the front bumper and grille were damaged, but not that badly. A few days later, he had another brand new Avalanche, this time in black.

I know he's a perfectionist when it comes to cars. He also has a Corvette convertible that lives under a cover in his garage, and the lights in his garage stay on 24/7, whether he's home or not. The Corvette gets replaced every time a new generation comes out.

That's my experience as well, people who have them love them. As others mentioned, the bed works as is, or you can lower the rear seat and make it a long bed. The back has a built in locking cover. I've friends that put a mattress in the back and use it camping, with their heads in the cab, and bodies in the bed.

kayvent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2472 on: January 23, 2017, 08:22:26 PM »
I thought SUVs were originally based on trucks' frames? That could simply be the missing evolutionary link ;)

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2473 on: January 23, 2017, 11:18:07 PM »
You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

It's an automotive hermaphrodite.

Could it be the result of a genetic mutation, perhaps? The result of a drunken one-night stand between a truck and a SUV? Or did the production line get badly misconfigured when the union decided to celebrate April Fool's Day? Maybe a golf cart started experimenting with steroids, and this is the result: a (golf) Caddy.

I feel sorry for the miniscule bed. If we water it, do you think it will grow? If not, the owner is destined to never get the bro-cred of being asked to help somebody move. You can't even fit a mattress in there.

Uh... It is a 5.25 foot bed with the midgate up, and over 8 feet with it down. You can fit a full 4x8 sheet of plywood in it when necessary. I think it is the perfect compromise of pickup and SUV--I almost never needed the full bed size when I had my 3/4 ton Silverado. Actually, not, not almost never, never.

I can strap a full size sheet of plywood to the roof rack of my wagon.  Gotta admit it's hard to haul firewood or gravel, though.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2474 on: January 23, 2017, 11:35:00 PM »

Uh... It is a 5.25 foot bed with the midgate up, and over 8 feet with it down. You can fit a full 4x8 sheet of plywood in it when necessary. I think it is the perfect compromise of pickup and SUV--I almost never needed the full bed size when I had my 3/4 ton Silverado. Actually, not, not almost never, never.


I did not know this. This makes it much more practical than I would have guessed, looking at it. Of course, they still make my eyes cross when I stare at them too hard, but good to know they're useful on the inside.
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TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2475 on: January 24, 2017, 04:39:58 AM »
His reply to that was that this new truck was the Cadillac of trucks.

Cadillac makes a truck. Based on the Escalade. Yep, take a luxury SUV, and cut off... a full bed? No, just one row to make a tiny tiny bed. The bro-est of brodozers.



You could probably make an entire thread about this one truck.

Yep, definitely a rebadged Avalanche. Probably $1k of shiny doo-dads and such for a $20k bump in the sticker price.

Sydneystache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2476 on: January 24, 2017, 07:07:16 AM »
My brother-in-law (who has plenty of issues aside with past relationships, custody, bankruptcy etc) rang my partner asking if he wanted to buy his carbon fibre bike and associated accessories for $900. Partner asked me for advice because we're running out of space and we're both cyclists.

His mum had spoken to my partner previously saying his bro's having mechanical problems with his V8 ute and is cash flow challenged.

So I told my partner, buy it off him as he's your brother and make it an even $1,000 and as long as there's no cracks in the bike, it's a good deal without making the BIL feel we're feeling sorry for him as you're also getting his accessories (which we don't need as we have enough).

Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

I was going to ask whatever happened to the mechanical repairs for his ute (which he uses for work) but held my tongue because we've had arguments over his bro before. Just told him, I'm likely to visit him as he and his family are likely to visit us in our Sydney flat (which he doesn't despite numerous invitations and we've visited and stayed at his place many times eventhough we're only 90 minutes away).

So yes, I'll pass on the spa. Something about champagne on a beer budget and their mother would be appalled when she finds out he's bought a spa over fixing his ute. She keeps telling me he's not well off what with supporting his partner's kids (total of 4 under 18) but I wonder if he's being contrarian to her advice to not be so spendy or he's in denial about being able to afford a two-storey with pool, spa, v8 ute and suv in the long-term.

His latest effort to keep his current missus is to cut off his balls so she doesn't fall pregnant (which hubs and MIL have asked him not to do). I just thought wt?

Ok....there are some people who just need to make peace with their previous relationships before entering new ones with unresolved stuff.

I'm sure I'll post more on him in this thread. Can't vent on dear hubs anymore who's protective of younger bro.  *sigh*

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2477 on: January 24, 2017, 08:08:19 AM »

His latest effort to keep his current missus is to cut off his balls so she doesn't fall pregnant (which hubs and MIL have asked him not to do). I just thought wt?



Damn, I didn't realize that medical procedures were so, shall we say "rustic" down under.  There are better ways, and I hear that a vasectomy is quite a bit easier to reverse that  gelding, LOL.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2478 on: January 24, 2017, 08:51:10 AM »
Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

You know what eases my muscle tension? Not making payments on a $5,000 personal spa.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2479 on: January 24, 2017, 09:25:57 AM »
Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

You know what eases my muscle tension? Not making payments on a $5,000 personal spa.

For $5000 you could get weekly 30 minutes massages for a few years and still have money left over.

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2480 on: January 24, 2017, 10:56:19 AM »
Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

You know what eases my muscle tension? Not making payments on a $5,000 personal spa.

For $5000 you could get weekly 30 minutes massages for a few years and still have money left over.

And probably many happy endings, too :)

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2481 on: January 24, 2017, 02:19:43 PM »
Younger sister (paraphrased): "mom and dad aren't respecting *an agreement they have* and say that because they're paying for X, they can decide to change the agreement whenever they want, and I feel completely disrespected, and it's not fair, etc, etc, etc!"

Me: "Yep. It ISN'T fair, and you did have the agreement, and they aren't respecting it. And it's typical, and it's how they deal with boundaries when finances are involved. It's frustrating. I understand. So you have 2 choices: you can figure out how to be independant, set your boundaries where you want them, and enforce it. Or you can calculate the amount you need to get there and determine that you can take the emotional bullshit for X amount of time in order to achieve freedom. This is your opportunity to decide how you value the $ vs bullshit tradeoff."

To be clear: I understand the frustration. I get it. But learning how to put dollar amounts on what you are and aren't willing to put up with, and organize your life so you won't have to put up with it if you decide it's not worth it? That's a life skill more people could stand to learn that young.

And frankly: my parents habit of completely and utterly disregarding any boundaries or necessary respect for people who are financially dependant on them is why I, at 22, made the choice to live on 20$/week of groceries, and put THAT on a credit card and pay credit card interest rates for 6 months until I could afford it, rather than ask my parents (who were bringing in a half-million a year) for a few hundred dollars to get me through. Sometimes, 20% interest is cheaper than the bullshit you'll have to swallow if you don't pay it. I love my parents, but man, never again will I be in that position.

And yes, that attitude deals with a LOT of baggage and has changed my relationship with money. Sorry, sister. Best you learn the lesson early.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 07:43:57 PM by Kitsune »

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2482 on: January 24, 2017, 03:37:04 PM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.


Sydneystache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2483 on: January 24, 2017, 06:18:12 PM »
Anyway...partner comes back and says, yeah bought it. Also, he tells me next time you're up at his place (which I now refuse to go to as he's pretty anti-social), have a look at his new spa (north of $5000) which he bought (leased?) for his missus to ease her muscle tensions etc etc as you also wanted one (not anymore as I don't want any spa upmanships!)

You know what eases my muscle tension? Not making payments on a $5,000 personal spa.

For $5000 you could get weekly 30 minutes massages for a few years and still have money left over.

And probably many happy endings, too :)

LOL - thanks guys for the laughs.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2484 on: January 24, 2017, 07:22:02 PM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.

This is so foreign to me. The more I read of stories like this, the more I appreciate my awesome parents, who may have faults but I can literally not even comprehend them treating anybody like this, much less a family member. Like it blows my mind that there are people like this.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2485 on: January 24, 2017, 07:42:58 PM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.

This is so foreign to me. The more I read of stories like this, the more I appreciate my awesome parents, who may have faults but I can literally not even comprehend them treating anybody like this, much less a family member. Like it blows my mind that there are people like this.

There are a lot of parents with no respect for boundaries of people who are financially dependant on them. How often have you heard parents say, about, say, college-age children, "as long as I'm paying for school, s/he can't date x person/get a tattoo/live alone/decide their own major/have x hobby/go to this church/stop going to church/etc"? I've seen parents advocating for these positions ON THIS FORUM.

Some guidelines for money can make sense - i wouldn't pay for a 6-year music degree unless my kid could make a convincing argument as to why it was worth the money, yknow? But some of it is straight-up controlling as hell, and I'd absolutely rather be broke and in debt and living in a crap apartment and decide who I date, what I eat, what I chose to do in my free time, etc, than be dependant on someone badly enough that I'd have to knuckle down under those demands. Not. Worth. It. (First major blow-up of boundary-respecting with my mom, incidentally, was about 6 months after I graduated, when I was working 80-hour weeks and FINALLY had 2 days off in a row and she told me to cancel my date and take a bus "home" and spend my first free weekend in 2 months helping her throw a party. The words "you're no longer paying and so now I get to decide" were used. She didn't talk to me for 2 weeks. We get along much better now, but damned if I'd ever borrow 5$...)

And incidentally... teaching your kid that theyre allowed a say in their own life only if they're making more money? Sets really interesting relationship patterns that requires therapy to deal with. Would not recommend, as an educational tactic.


HappierAtHome

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2486 on: January 24, 2017, 07:58:11 PM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.

This is so foreign to me. The more I read of stories like this, the more I appreciate my awesome parents, who may have faults but I can literally not even comprehend them treating anybody like this, much less a family member. Like it blows my mind that there are people like this.

Please call them today and tell them they're awesome.

My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school... I'm turning 30 this year so it's well over a decade ago now and oh, by the way, I was a KID. He was an ADULT who was financially responsible for my care. It's not like I went to a private school or had horses or anything! Just a normal kid.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2487 on: January 24, 2017, 09:17:57 PM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school... I'm turning 30 this year so it's well over a decade ago now and oh, by the way, I was a KID. He was an ADULT who was financially responsible for my care. It's not like I went to a private school or had horses or anything! Just a normal kid.

Is he kidding?

For my 18th birthday, Mum bought me a beautiful card and signed it from both of them. Dad gave me piece of paper on which he had written, "Money's short and times are hard, so here's your bloody birthday card." I thought it was hilarious.

A couple of months later I moved away for uni and had to leave my dog with my parents. For my 21st Dad presented me with an invoice for my dog's expenses*. My dad is fun. :D



*Still have the invoice. Have not paid it.

HappierAtHome

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2488 on: January 24, 2017, 09:53:13 PM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school... I'm turning 30 this year so it's well over a decade ago now and oh, by the way, I was a KID. He was an ADULT who was financially responsible for my care. It's not like I went to a private school or had horses or anything! Just a normal kid.

Is he kidding?

Nope. He honestly believes that his financial situation is the direct and unavoidable outcome of having children, and not his choices such as:
Quitting perfectly good jobs. Repeatedly.
Investing his time and intellectual capital in get rich quick schemes "businesses" which never went anywhere.
Refusing to change his behaviour to be able to participate in traditional workplaces.
Investing his financial capital in incredibly risky speculative schemes and stocks.
Spending every dollar he earned.

He blew through at least one sizeable inheritance, too.

He thinks his children are "lucky" for having incredibly stable, well paid employment and being more financially stable than average (to varying degrees, but even the spendiest of us is able to save and live below our means). He doesn't see that this is a direct response to his behaviour and our strong desire not to live like that.

It used to upset me, a lot. Now every. single. time. he says anything about how much I cost him to raise, or how you can have a million dollars or kids but you can't have both, or whatever specific bullshit he's peddling that day, I say in a cheerful and joking tone of voice "well if you didn't want me, you should've worn a condom!" and then I change the subject.

Carless

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2489 on: January 24, 2017, 10:12:23 PM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school...

My grandmother did this to my dad a few times over university tuition.  Then he said "you know what, I'll pay you back.  How much was it?"  He was serious too - felt it was worth the $$$ to cut the emotional strings.  Of course she said that wasn't what she meant...but it never got brought up again.


Silverwood

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2490 on: January 24, 2017, 10:48:40 PM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Now, my parents have more money and I think are realizing just how much more my brother got.  It's gotten so I don't want to shop with my mother as she won't let me pay for my own purchases. 

My brother on the other hand got fired from his high paying job and won't stop whining about it.  Complains to my parents and feels like they should be helping him out more. But right after that will get them to babysit while him and his fiance go out for dinner and a movie. And after that decide to stay the night at my parents and get shit  faced.

Did I mention they are going on a 5000 dollar vacation in a week?! While my parents babysit, of course.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 10:50:13 PM by Silverwood »

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2491 on: January 25, 2017, 12:02:29 AM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school... I'm turning 30 this year so it's well over a decade ago now and oh, by the way, I was a KID. He was an ADULT who was financially responsible for my care. It's not like I went to a private school or had horses or anything! Just a normal kid.

Is he kidding?

For my 18th birthday, Mum bought me a beautiful card and signed it from both of them. Dad gave me piece of paper on which he had written, "Money's short and times are hard, so here's your bloody birthday card." I thought it was hilarious.

A couple of months later I moved away for uni and had to leave my dog with my parents. For my 21st Dad presented me with an invoice for my dog's expenses*. My dad is fun. :D



*Still have the invoice. Have not paid it.

Ha! Make sure you calculate it properly in your networth numbers. :D
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HappierAtHome

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2492 on: January 25, 2017, 12:41:59 AM »
My Dad still brings up how much I cost him when I was at high school...

My grandmother did this to my dad a few times over university tuition.  Then he said "you know what, I'll pay you back.  How much was it?"  He was serious too - felt it was worth the $$$ to cut the emotional strings.  Of course she said that wasn't what she meant...but it never got brought up again.

I might try that! "How much money would I need to give you for you to never bring this up again in my presence?" might work.

Better discuss with spouse first in case he actually takes me up on it...

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2493 on: January 25, 2017, 01:05:28 AM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Now, my parents have more money and I think are realizing just how much more my brother got.  It's gotten so I don't want to shop with my mother as she won't let me pay for my own purchases. 

My youngest sibling sort of had this as a combination of both being the youngest (parents were skint and grandparents weren't so bothered about putting money in the bank account) and not going to university. We had a proper family chat and spoke about how much was in our childhood accounts and what parents spent on each of us at university and then parents wrote a cheque.

It really cleared the air and our relationship has been much better since. If I'd have realised how much upset the difference caused I'd have suggested it much earlier.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2494 on: January 25, 2017, 07:09:50 AM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Dollars to donuts this sport is hockey. Even odds you're in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

Growing up, my parents' rule was "one activity per kid". Somehow my brother's 3x/week hockey team, plus frequent out-of-town tournaments, was equivalent to either my 1x/week gymnastics class OR my biweekly Girl Scout troop, but I couldn't do both. I spent far more time sitting in the stands of a hockey arena than I ever did on my own activities.

[a]bort

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2495 on: January 25, 2017, 07:39:38 AM »
I witnessed both of my brothers ask our parents for money while they were in university, probably totaling about 15k - 20k each. Money has never caused drama in our family but it gives me a nice feeling to remember that I put myself through school using my own savings, and I'm sure my parents are also appreciative.

Unrelated but, over the holidays our dad recommended to all of us that we read The Wealthy Barber, and how if you save 10% you can reach "freedom 55". I played dumb but commented that it would then make sense that if you saved more than 10%, you should be able to retire even earlier than 55.

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2496 on: January 25, 2017, 07:48:03 AM »
Ding! Ding! Ding!

You win this afternoon's discussion by my measure.

I can relate. The last thing I'd do is ask my parents for money. It would come with some much baggage that I'd hear about it for the next 50 some odd years. Nuclear grade criticism.

They are still dragging up 1970s and 1980s family history occasionally and I was a good kid that stayed out of trouble.

This is so foreign to me. The more I read of stories like this, the more I appreciate my awesome parents, who may have faults but I can literally not even comprehend them treating anybody like this, much less a family member. Like it blows my mind that there are people like this.

There are a lot of parents with no respect for boundaries of people who are financially dependant on them. How often have you heard parents say, about, say, college-age children, "as long as I'm paying for school, s/he can't date x person/get a tattoo/live alone/decide their own major/have x hobby/go to this church/stop going to church/etc"? I've seen parents advocating for these positions ON THIS FORUM.

Some guidelines for money can make sense - i wouldn't pay for a 6-year music degree unless my kid could make a convincing argument as to why it was worth the money, yknow? But some of it is straight-up controlling as hell, and I'd absolutely rather be broke and in debt and living in a crap apartment and decide who I date, what I eat, what I chose to do in my free time, etc, than be dependant on someone badly enough that I'd have to knuckle down under those demands. Not. Worth. It. (First major blow-up of boundary-respecting with my mom, incidentally, was about 6 months after I graduated, when I was working 80-hour weeks and FINALLY had 2 days off in a row and she told me to cancel my date and take a bus "home" and spend my first free weekend in 2 months helping her throw a party. The words "you're no longer paying and so now I get to decide" were used. She didn't talk to me for 2 weeks. We get along much better now, but damned if I'd ever borrow 5$...)

And incidentally... teaching your kid that theyre allowed a say in their own life only if they're making more money? Sets really interesting relationship patterns that requires therapy to deal with. Would not recommend, as an educational tactic.

My family also suffers from perpetual "I told you so". Even when they are wrong sometimes they can turn a situation around into a "I told you so". Sometimes the "I told you so" is silent and implied and includes all sorts of judgements. Sometimes our choices/motivations overlap with them - you'd think we'd have some common ground to build upon - but that doesn't consistently functional rationally either so I gave up.

No way I'd bring money into that relationship. It's all so irrational and I don't try very hard to understand it any more. Wear and tear on the mind to try to sort out the impossible.

I can tell when I'm being manipulated and a carrot dangled in front of me to elicit some response. I've had promises of a used car, a new car and money dangled in front of me at different times. I was pretty young during the car promise era (decades ago) and got pretty worked up over the possibility b/c the car I bought and paid for with my own money was crap. It never materialized despite the promises. I never let that topic have any power over me again.

An inheritance was promised to me as well but I'm immune to that carrot thanks to the car debacle so long ago. I was supposed to bank on it - plan my own retirement around that and take things easy in life. Spend freely. Not. On. Your. Life. I have a golden sibling who did receive financial assistance and a college education. I worked my way through college.

Certainly part of it is me - I can be an odd duck occasionally (eclectic but always consistent) - and part of it is them. DW and I have been very careful and consistent with our own kids to prevent a repeat of any of my elders' behavior.

Went to a dinner a year or so ago and they tried to dangle the car carrot in front of my teenager just like they did me so many years before. Never mind what plans DW and I might have for the topic. They trod all over us. All very entertaining to them. You could practically see the teenager begin to drool over the prospect of a car given to him. The drive back to our home was an enlightened conversation for our teen. The power of their carrot is broken thankfully.

Sorry to derail your narrative Kitsune.

Yeah, these people exist.

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2497 on: January 25, 2017, 08:02:59 AM »
Oh - I remember another type of conversation I've had with my parents a number of times. The YOLO conversation.

Seems to either indicate they have forgotten what a mere mortal family budget looks like or they are humblebragging about their own success.

Of course some of that success came from my grandparents' financial gifts when I was a kid - but that is never mentioned in the bootstrapping stories.

Yeah I'd like to pay off my mortgage even earlier but the financial gift giving tradition started and ended with my grandparents and only extended to my parents, never all the way to us kids. Well it might have to my golden child sibling but never to me. ;)

(sibling got dollar matching on cars, deluxe college education, etc). Regardless DW and I are doing great but we don't brag to the family.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 08:25:56 AM by Tasty Pinecones »

pachnik

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2498 on: January 25, 2017, 08:16:33 AM »
Nope. He honestly believes that his financial situation is the direct and unavoidable outcome of having children, and not his choices such as:
Quitting perfectly good jobs. Repeatedly.
Investing his time and intellectual capital in get rich quick schemes "businesses" which never went anywhere.
Refusing to change his behaviour to be able to participate in traditional workplaces.
Investing his financial capital in incredibly risky speculative schemes and stocks.
Spending every dollar he earned.

He blew through at least one sizeable inheritance, too.

He thinks his children are "lucky" for having incredibly stable, well paid employment and being more financially stable than average (to varying degrees, but even the spendiest of us is able to save and live below our means). He doesn't see that this is a direct response to his behaviour and our strong desire not to live like that.

It used to upset me, a lot. Now every. single. time. he says anything about how much I cost him to raise, or how you can have a million dollars or kids but you can't have both, or whatever specific bullshit he's peddling that day, I say in a cheerful and joking tone of voice "well if you didn't want me, you should've worn a condom!" and then I change the subject.

Wow, sorry you have a dad like this.  I can understand how it would be very upsetting to hear something like this.  Very good that you and your siblings have learned from it though. 

Silverwood

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2499 on: January 25, 2017, 10:07:29 AM »
So when I was younger my parents didn't have a lot of money. They still managed to pay for my brothers expensive sport. Travel, hotels, expensive equipment. But they had a lot of fun with the other parents so I guess could justify it?  I was always  the tag along.  He had a different set of rules as I was a girl and he was a boy.  Which pretty much meant  he could do what he wanted.

Dollars to donuts this sport is hockey. Even odds you're in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

Growing up, my parents' rule was "one activity per kid". Somehow my brother's 3x/week hockey team, plus frequent out-of-town tournaments, was equivalent to either my 1x/week gymnastics class OR my biweekly Girl Scout troop, but I couldn't do both. I spent far more time sitting in the stands of a hockey arena than I ever did on my own activities.


Close but a little more north  :)  You're right about the hockey part.