Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1586274 times)

kobo1d

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2250 on: December 21, 2016, 12:09:16 PM »
Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

But my point was you have a non-zero chance of finding a ticket on the ground, so you always have that non-zero chance of winning.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2251 on: December 21, 2016, 12:22:03 PM »

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2252 on: December 21, 2016, 12:31:45 PM »

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...

The rounding doesn't matter if you're not looking at probability. All I'm saying is that from a mathematical point of view, because not having a ticket is literally zero chance of winning, and having a ticket is more than zero chance of winning, you're infinitely more likely to win with a ticket than without. Infinity*.00000000000000000000000001 though still returns to about zero--but it is not zero.

Scratch off tickets do actually have a non-zero expected value, and the more expensive ones have a correspondingly higher value. But it is usually something like a 1/4 chance to break even, so you'll just lose it a lot faster with the expensive tickets.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2253 on: December 21, 2016, 12:32:32 PM »

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...
Don't have time to do this for all games, but on one particular $1 game in Florida, the EV is $0.625.  $25 scratch ticket EV is $19.87.  Based on published odds.  So 63% payout for the $1 vs 79% payout on the $25.  Odds on these games are publicly available.  Of course on the $25 game, the top prize of $10M is payable as an annuity, so this over-states that.  Valuing that at $6M only takes a couple of percent off the payout percentage though.  Even valuing top prize at $0, you've got a nearly 75% payout on the more expensive game.

Still bad bets, but the more expensive tickets aren't quite as bad a bet, typically.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2254 on: December 21, 2016, 12:54:40 PM »

Still bad bets, but the more expensive tickets aren't quite as bad a bet, typically.

Yup, this is why it's been nearly a decade since I've wagered a cent in casinos.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2255 on: December 22, 2016, 12:13:36 AM »

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...
Don't have time to do this for all games, but on one particular $1 game in Florida, the EV is $0.625.  $25 scratch ticket EV is $19.87.  Based on published odds.  So 63% payout for the $1 vs 79% payout on the $25.  Odds on these games are publicly available.  Of course on the $25 game, the top prize of $10M is payable as an annuity, so this over-states that.  Valuing that at $6M only takes a couple of percent off the payout percentage though.  Even valuing top prize at $0, you've got a nearly 75% payout on the more expensive game.

Still bad bets, but the more expensive tickets aren't quite as bad a bet, typically.

My second cousin has been turning a small profit on Florida lottery scratch tickets because he will unabashedly fish discarded tickets out of trash bins and the grocery stores next to the customer service desks.  Apparently, you'd be surprised how many people throw away winning tickets, unscratched tickets, and tickets that still have a chance in the "second-chance drawing."  Obviously, this a a very small profit, but he's retired and finds this fun.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2256 on: December 22, 2016, 12:16:34 PM »

Actually, your chances increased infinitely just by buying a ticket since you now have a non-zero chance of winning. There, I used math (calculus even) to justify a lotto purchase! Too bad that as soon as you go back to basic probability, it becomes unjustified once again.

I think almost all rounding would say that you still have a zero chance.

I wonder what the expected value of a $50 scratch off ticket is compared to a $1 scratch off ticket...
Don't have time to do this for all games, but on one particular $1 game in Florida, the EV is $0.625.  $25 scratch ticket EV is $19.87.  Based on published odds.  So 63% payout for the $1 vs 79% payout on the $25.  Odds on these games are publicly available.  Of course on the $25 game, the top prize of $10M is payable as an annuity, so this over-states that.  Valuing that at $6M only takes a couple of percent off the payout percentage though.  Even valuing top prize at $0, you've got a nearly 75% payout on the more expensive game.

Still bad bets, but the more expensive tickets aren't quite as bad a bet, typically.

My second cousin has been turning a small profit on Florida lottery scratch tickets because he will unabashedly fish discarded tickets out of trash bins and the grocery stores next to the customer service desks.  Apparently, you'd be surprised how many people throw away winning tickets, unscratched tickets, and tickets that still have a chance in the "second-chance drawing."  Obviously, this a a very small profit, but he's retired and finds this fun.
Yeah - if you get your tickets for free, then you can make money playing the lottery.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2257 on: December 22, 2016, 01:30:02 PM »
Mom sent out a family-wide mass text concerning what she wants for Christmas. I have four words for you: holiday themed cloth napkins. When I saw this text, it made me a bit depressed. The woman is in her late forties and has not yet put a single penny toward retirement. When I was on the phone with her later that day, I asked her why this was what she wanted for Christmas. She said in reply: "I'm not a minimalist," and "I thought they would be nice to have." That reasoning wouldn't haunt me at all if her choices only affected her. But that is not (and never has been) the case. I am going to be the one who has to decide whether or not to work for longer in order to save enough money to ensure she doesn't starve in her final years. I am going to have to live with the guilt or burden that follows that decision. She thinks that money is for playing, and that buying stuff is fun and exciting. But her bad money habits have already affected my life, and will continue to do so if she does not change. I apologize for the sad vibe. That's just how I'm feeling about this.

Being the responsible one sucks.  Years ago, my BIL and SIL called me selfish and hateful when I wouldn't agree to co-buy broke FIL's house with them.  (My reason is that I wouldn't make a large investment with people who were dumb enough to buy a $600,000 house with $80,000 down and 1 income.)  This year, FIL needed dentures ($2,800) for the first time and cheap, selfish me paid for them.  And no one seems to get that I saw this coming.

Oh boy.  And here I am, mid to late-forties, thinking "I could use some new cloth napkins, because mine are falling apart", but Holiday ones??

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2258 on: December 22, 2016, 02:12:31 PM »
A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Fifty fucking dollars on a lottery ticket. And people buy these. I would now like a brain enema so that I can forget this.

ender

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2259 on: December 22, 2016, 02:14:23 PM »
A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Fifty fucking dollars on a lottery ticket. And people buy these. I would now like a brain enema so that I can forget this.

The government should convert the lottery into a pseudo 401k system, where every time people buy tickets it is deposited into an account where it gets invested and is only available at age 65.

This way, everyone wins when they play!

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2260 on: December 22, 2016, 03:18:50 PM »
A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Fifty fucking dollars on a lottery ticket. And people buy these. I would now like a brain enema so that I can forget this.

The government should convert the lottery into a pseudo 401k system, where every time people buy tickets it is deposited into an account where it gets invested and is only available at age 65.

This way, everyone wins when they play!

I would like that.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2261 on: December 22, 2016, 05:27:08 PM »
A THIRTY DOLLAR lottery ticket?!?! Thirty dollars? Is this a common thing? Is it thirty lines for a $1 draw? I find this abhorrent.

The Texas Lottery sells $50 scratch-off tickets. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Fifty fucking dollars on a lottery ticket. And people buy these. I would now like a brain enema so that I can forget this.

The government should convert the lottery into a pseudo 401k system, where every time people buy tickets it is deposited into an account where it gets invested and is only available at age 65.

This way, everyone wins when they play!

What is crazy is that people would not have faith in the govt or that they would get x% return per year BUT they will buy lottery tickets that TELL you they pay you 0.60$ for every 1.0$ you pay in.

Its like people think to them-self:
"Give me 0.60$ for every 1.00$ I give you, sure yes lets do that"
"Give me 1.07$ for ever 1.00$ I give you, no way that is a scam"

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2262 on: December 23, 2016, 12:28:19 AM »
What is crazy is that people would not have faith in the govt or that they would get x% return per year BUT they will buy lottery tickets that TELL you they pay you 0.60$ for every 1.0$ you pay in.

Its like people think to them-self:
"Give me 0.60$ for every 1.00$ I give you, sure yes lets do that"
"Give me 1.07$ for ever 1.00$ I give you, no way that is a scam"

I think I need to revise my sales pitch. I'm doing this all wrong.

Stachey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2263 on: December 24, 2016, 10:17:12 AM »
The number of people who bitch endlessly about how much tax they have to pay and then turn around and spend ridiculous sums on lottery tickets. 
I wonder what percentage of their money they spend on lottery tickets.  I bet for many people it's a lot more than the tax they pay.

Stachey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2264 on: December 24, 2016, 11:06:09 AM »
But really came here to complain about relatives at Giftmas (and got distracted by all the lottery talk).
So relatives...AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
WTF?!  How is it possible for people to suck the fun out of making gingerbread houses?
Just when you think there is a safe activity that everyone can enjoy...No it doesn't happen. 
Unbelievable.

Tjat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2265 on: December 26, 2016, 07:35:49 AM »
So this giftmas I convinced most everyone to at least not give me material things as I absolutely don't need more stuff. While I still ended up with a 20-piece $20 toolkit that is promptly being donated, the real source of stress is the almost $1000 spent on mostly China-made crap for my children. We are donating the duplicates asap and have to actually strategize what toys to keep, store, or straight donate. It's ridiculous and a complete joke that Christmas has led to me using my valuables vacation days to sort through, organize, and dispose of this shit. Worse is the damage these well intentioned, but consumerist people are doing to my children (or will do once they grow older) by demonstrating such a wasteful lifestyle. (I realize there are many ways to turn that into a lesson, but my wife isn't fully on the same page, and worries about offending the gift givers if we don't use their gifts)

/rant

I'm a red panda

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2266 on: December 26, 2016, 09:28:17 AM »
Can you return any of the stuff? Even if just for store credit, maybe you can buy something more useful, or use the money from a bunch of small junk presents to buy one nice thing?

Tjat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2267 on: December 26, 2016, 11:45:14 AM »
I could, and even if I could get the wife on board, the prospect of that effort exhausts me. These gifts are sourced from 7+ stores, including amazon and some not anywhere near me, all not accompanied by a gift receipt. We are returning the large musical instrument and the 60" teddy bear though.
get
I just don't understand how these people so carelessly spend their hard-earned money on junk I'd like to get rid of...

MrsDinero

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2268 on: December 26, 2016, 01:26:47 PM »
I could, and even if I could get the wife on board, the prospect of that effort exhausts me. These gifts are sourced from 7+ stores, including amazon and some not anywhere near me, all not accompanied by a gift receipt. We are returning the large musical instrument and the 60" teddy bear though.
get
I just don't understand how these people so carelessly spend their hard-earned money on junk I'd like to get rid of...

Can you get your wife on board to set restrictions on the gifts people send you?  Just be honest with them that with the number of people giving your kids presents has gotten out of hand.  Ask them to limit their gift no larger than a shoebox.  Anything larger than that will be immediately returned before it even gets to the tree?


gaja

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2269 on: December 26, 2016, 01:45:18 PM »
We re-gift or exchange anything we don't immidiately see we need or love. This includes the kids' gifts, with their consent. It took a lot of work and a lot of time, but they have gotten quite good at separating between stuff they need or love, and stuff that is cool only because it is new. There are a lot of packrats in the family, so the traditional gift bonanzas at christmas and birthdays are good excuses for giving them training they will need in the future.

Mustachianfuture

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2270 on: December 26, 2016, 03:41:39 PM »
This is ringing lots of bells with me today. My MIL and SIL just can't stop buying stuff for my 3yo son. His wardrobe is absolutely stuffed with all the clothes they gave him for his birthday, but they've literally given him about 500 worth of high street clothes for Christmas, including 5 brand new coats. He's three, he really doesn't care! I've no idea how any of this will fit in the wardrobe and I know most of it won't get worn. It's quite stressful really, they definitely can't afford to buy this much stuff and we simply don't have the room in our small house. Since he was born, I've hardly ever been able to choose any clothes for him that I like, as he has so much already it seems so wasteful. I chose one pair of pjs for Christmas that my mum bought him, but then he got 8 other pairs from my in laws...

We've broached the subject jokingly and then again very politely with them and were made to feel hurtful and ungrateful. Other than give the clothes away, I don't really know what to do! They're pretty bad with toys as well, and we live in a small house, so that isn't appreciated either. However, clothes are the main problem.

I do sound ungrateful, but there are 50 tshirts in his drawer already and at least 20 more for Christmas presents.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 03:43:11 PM by Mustachianfuture »

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2271 on: December 26, 2016, 05:11:36 PM »
If you have friends with little boys I would start sharing the clothes with them. One kid can only have so many clothes.

kayvent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2272 on: December 26, 2016, 05:43:56 PM »
This is ringing lots of bells with me today. My MIL and SIL just can't stop buying stuff for my 3yo son. His wardrobe is absolutely stuffed with all the clothes they gave him for his birthday, but they've literally given him about 500 worth of high street clothes for Christmas, including 5 brand new coats. He's three, he really doesn't care! I've no idea how any of this will fit in the wardrobe and I know most of it won't get worn. It's quite stressful really, they definitely can't afford to buy this much stuff and we simply don't have the room in our small house. Since he was born, I've hardly ever been able to choose any clothes for him that I like, as he has so much already it seems so wasteful. I chose one pair of pjs for Christmas that my mum bought him, but then he got 8 other pairs from my in laws...

We've broached the subject jokingly and then again very politely with them and were made to feel hurtful and ungrateful. Other than give the clothes away, I don't really know what to do! They're pretty bad with toys as well, and we live in a small house, so that isn't appreciated either. However, clothes are the main problem.

I do sound ungrateful, but there are 50 tshirts in his drawer already and at least 20 more for Christmas presents.

I believe I gave this tactic earlier in this thread but I'll reiterate it in case it helps you. I'll give the example with toys but it can be tailored to clothing. Pun intended.

I just tell my loved ones that mathematically they need to be conservative. If each grandparent (4), parent (2), and very close family friend (4) buy my kid one toy every three months (birthday, Christmas, and two other times), then that is 30 toys a year. If they play with only one random toy a day and grow out of toy after a year of receiving it, many toys will only ever be played with four to eight times. If these are toys that last two or three years, or are toys they never grow out of (ex stuffed animals or barbies), not only will a number of them only get played with a few times but I'll have 100 or more toys per child in my house.

I literally can't fit that in my house and two years ago I actually had a terrible panic attack at this realization. Drowning in toys that my child NEVER plays with. Claustrophobic. Hundreds of toys and tchotchkes that people bought to be nice but are now just occupying space.

I'm not sure what convinced my loved one: my appeal to logic, my explanation of space constraints, or the downright fear I have. Either way, they stopped getting so much.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 06:30:08 PM by kayvent »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2273 on: December 26, 2016, 06:41:13 PM »
We've broached the subject jokingly and then again very politely with them and were made to feel hurtful and ungrateful. Other than give the clothes away, I don't really know what to do! They're pretty bad with toys as well, and we live in a small house, so that isn't appreciated either. However, clothes are the main problem.

I do sound ungrateful, but there are 50 tshirts in his drawer already and at least 20 more for Christmas presents.
Here's what I would do:
1) get rid of the extra clothes.  Sell 'em if you can, donate them if you can't.
2) if relatives notice the clothes are gone and point it out, simply respond that 1) you're grateful for their generosity, but 2) either A) the kid didn't like them, or B) you literally did not have room to store them, or C) there are so many clothes that he never wears it, so 3) rather than let them molder neglected in your kid's closet for years, you donated it to someone who needed it more.  If they take offense at it, that's their problem, not yours.

Stachey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2274 on: December 26, 2016, 07:37:00 PM »
The nephews got so many toys it was ridiculous.  By the fourth present their eyes have glazed over and they aren't even registering anything anymore.  Probably a third of these toys will never be played with.  It's such a waste.

I lost the battle years ago for the adults to stop exchanging presents.  So there is all that shit to deal with now.   

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ambimammular

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2276 on: December 26, 2016, 10:09:47 PM »
This is DH, overhearing ambi help her mother clean out her closet. MIL claims she wants to down size, but doesn't want to get rid of anything. Some gems:

ambi: How many tablecloths is the right number of tablecloths? Let's start there.
Mother: Oh brother.
ambi: 5? 10?
ambi, pulling out one: Have you ever used this one?
Mother: That goes with some placemats.
ambi: Have you ever used either?
Mother: ....
ambi: So those are going to Goodwill.
[There were 12 in the closet. And the table had three of them on it, stacked one on top of the other.]

~~

ambi: You have 5 blankets on the couch. Pick one to get rid of.
Mother: But those 3 are wool!
ambi: Then the cotton one is the loser!
Mother: ....

Later:
ambi: There are 8 wool blankets in the closet. Eight. Let's pick one to let go.
Mother: I'm not getting rid of them.
ambi: You pick or Dad can pick.
Father, chiming in from next room: Your mother can give away a piano, but can't part with an old blanket.
Mother: Fine. The white one. [some artistic license, but she did agree to get rid of one in the subsequent exchange that happened too quick for me]

~~

ambi: This (wool) blanket should go to Goodwill.
Mother: That one goes in the car.
ambi:You already have some in the car.
Mother: I'm putting this one out there right now.
ambi: So if I go out to the car, your telling me I won't find any blankets?
Mother: But those are the car blankets.
ambi: Then we should trade, you can keep this one, and we'll take the other car blankets to Goodwill.
Mother: ....

To be fair MIL did really well letting stuff go, after she got started.



mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2277 on: December 27, 2016, 03:10:06 AM »
This is DH, overhearing ambi help her mother clean out her closet. MIL claims she wants to down size, but doesn't want to get rid of anything. Some gems:

ambi: How many tablecloths is the right number of tablecloths? Let's start there.
Mother: Oh brother.
ambi: 5? 10?
ambi, pulling out one: Have you ever used this one?
Mother: That goes with some placemats.
ambi: Have you ever used either?
Mother: ....
ambi: So those are going to Goodwill.
[There were 12 in the closet. And the table had three of them on it, stacked one on top of the other.]

~~

ambi: You have 5 blankets on the couch. Pick one to get rid of.
Mother: But those 3 are wool!
ambi: Then the cotton one is the loser!
Mother: ....

Later:
ambi: There are 8 wool blankets in the closet. Eight. Let's pick one to let go.
Mother: I'm not getting rid of them.
ambi: You pick or Dad can pick.
Father, chiming in from next room: Your mother can give away a piano, but can't part with an old blanket.
Mother: Fine. The white one. [some artistic license, but she did agree to get rid of one in the subsequent exchange that happened too quick for me]

~~

ambi: This (wool) blanket should go to Goodwill.
Mother: That one goes in the car.
ambi:You already have some in the car.
Mother: I'm putting this one out there right now.
ambi: So if I go out to the car, your telling me I won't find any blankets?
Mother: But those are the car blankets.
ambi: Then we should trade, you can keep this one, and we'll take the other car blankets to Goodwill.
Mother: ....

To be fair MIL did really well letting stuff go, after she got started.

You should cross-post this to the decluttering thread:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/getting-rid-of-stuff-clearing-out-clutter!/msg1344804/#msg1344804

ambi will be lauded for her efforts!

cheapass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2278 on: December 27, 2016, 07:44:37 AM »
Talking with the brother-in-law yesterday and the subject of HSA's came up. He mentioned that his company deposits a small amount each year but inevitably his kids' doctor visits exceed that amount.

I proceeded to explain how it's a good idea to contribute to the HSA because it rolls over, the money is never taxed, you can invest it, you're always going to have medical expenses,  etc.

"Yeah,  it'd be nice to contribute but you gotta have money to live on too."

I wonder if that attitude carries over to the 401K...

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2279 on: December 27, 2016, 08:40:54 AM »
"Yeah,  it'd be nice to contribute but you gotta have money to live on too."

I wonder if that attitude carries over to the 401K...

I have heard this line of thinking expressed before. It seems that this attitude does affect all sorts of investing.

ringer707

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2280 on: December 27, 2016, 11:34:37 AM »
On the subject of relatives and Christmas gifts...

My FIL suffered a heart attack this year that has left him with significant brain damage and he's unlikely to ever work again (was self-employed and had no disability insurance either so no paychecks in the last 6 months). My MIL insisted that she was buying us something for Christmas, so I finally agreed she could buy us a very reasonably priced, on clearance grill for our new home if she agreed she would not get us any additional gifts, including any "Santa" gifts for the dog as she's prone to do.

So what does she show up with on Christmas? The grill. A shirt for me. A toy for the dog. A new set of pots for us. And $200 in an envelope. All the while trying to tell us how we need the money so just accept it. Except that DH and I made more than they did when both of them were working, and now make three times their annual salary since FIL isn't working.

I managed to sneak the $200 back into her car, at least.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2281 on: December 27, 2016, 02:27:25 PM »
I managed to sneak the $200 back into her car, at least.

Great work!

Mustachianfuture

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2282 on: December 27, 2016, 02:44:36 PM »
Hi everyone, thanks for your advice

If you have friends with little boys I would start sharing the clothes with them. One kid can only have so many clothes.

I'm going to give a bit to my niece as her son is exactly a year younger than mine, so she can make use of some of it next year - they usually get our cast offs anyway. I might see if I can give some to charities helping refugee kids as well.


I believe I gave this tactic earlier in this thread but I'll reiterate it in case it helps you. I'll give the example with toys but it can be tailored to clothing. Pun intended.

I just tell my loved ones that mathematically they need to be conservative. If each grandparent (4), parent (2), and very close family friend (4) buy my kid one toy every three months (birthday, Christmas, and two other times), then that is 30 toys a year. If they play with only one random toy a day and grow out of toy after a year of receiving it, many toys will only ever be played with four to eight times. If these are toys that last two or three years, or are toys they never grow out of (ex stuffed animals or barbies), not only will a number of them only get played with a few times but I'll have 100 or more toys per child in my house.

I literally can't fit that in my house and two years ago I actually had a terrible panic attack at this realization. Drowning in toys that my child NEVER plays with. Claustrophobic. Hundreds of toys and tchotchkes that people bought to be nice but are now just occupying space.

I'm not sure what convinced my loved one: my appeal to logic, my explanation of space constraints, or the downright fear I have. Either way, they stopped getting so much.

You're right, I've used a similar tack with my own mother and it's worked a bit. My MIL is completely different though! I almost never buy him anything myself.

Here's what I would do:
1) get rid of the extra clothes.  Sell 'em if you can, donate them if you can't.
2) if relatives notice the clothes are gone and point it out, simply respond that 1) you're grateful for their generosity, but 2) either A) the kid didn't like them, or B) you literally did not have room to store them, or C) there are so many clothes that he never wears it, so 3) rather than let them molder neglected in your kid's closet for years, you donated it to someone who needed it more.  If they take offense at it, that's their problem, not yours.

To be honest, they buy so much, they couldn't possibly remember it all, so wouldn't notice if I got rid of it all.

They're babysitting next weekend. Usually my house is pretty tidy, but I'm considering leaving it a complete tip when they come with toys and clothes everywhere and complaining loudly about having no space to see if they get the hint!

moof

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2283 on: December 27, 2016, 06:27:59 PM »
Xmas was surreal this year.  We stayed for a week at the SIL's house in the bay area.  They of course have a weekly house cleaner, because that's important and not that expensive (eye roll).  Grandma cannot be convinced to buy us less and complains if the amazon list runs dry.  So I put bike clothes and panniers on the list to minimize the amount of useless crap I would get, still got specialty Moscow Mule cups I'll never use (never wanted or tried one).  Got yelled at for feeding my kid breakfast before a 2.5 hour drive because it would make us late for the arbitrary target time, wtf?  Their kid eats about every third day, our 4 year old gives me a run for my money in the hunger camp.

Our kid was asked if he had a good Christmas, and proceeded to explain that he got more than he wanted, so it wasn't that good.  I cannot get through to everyone that half this still WILL NOT GET PLAYED with, and that phone calls or pictures will work better for endearing themselves to him.  We got him socks and underwear only for Pete's sake...

My favorite gift was a 12 pack of Pliney the Elder the FIL got me, something I cannot get locally and I can enjoy sharing while it is still fresh.

I tracked down a good friend and went for a 4 day backpacking loop rather than sit around or go to the mall.  A little suffering is good for the soul as they say.  Coming back to the complaints of mall crowds an excessive angst over the most minor material issues was jarring.

Tjat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2284 on: December 27, 2016, 07:11:26 PM »
For a trip that lasted a week, you managed to escape for a 4 day hike? My wife would've killed me.


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2285 on: December 27, 2016, 10:38:21 PM »
I always feel guilty around Christmas.  I've given up trying to get my mum to get us nothing, instead I now ask for something that's some mix of small, cheap or perishable... She still goes overboard, but it's a slightly more manageable overboard.

Like this year - I asked for an insulated lunch bag, to keep my lunch cold when I cycle to work in the summer.  Cue me and my partner receiving an esky (I think Americans call it a cooler?) and two insulated bags (large and small).

On the one hand, I'm happy - she clearly put a lot of thought into it, but on the other, aaaaaah, where am I going to put it all?! And now I feel guilty, because how dare she do something nice for me, right, folks?!

That said - I'm warming up to the esky (lol, the irony).

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2286 on: December 28, 2016, 01:42:13 AM »
The couple of things I actually wanted this year (my family acknowledge that I'm difficult to buy for), I bought the presents and gave to them to give to me. It worked really well.

For my nieces and nephews I ask my siblings what the kids want or need and if they can send me a link to the exact product then that's great. I'm never going to know better than their parents what they want: if I have a great idea I'll run it by their parents (I once found something I knew was great for them, bought it, called up, yes it's perfect: they already have it - epic fail!)

Does anyone have any tips for balancing out spending/number of presents between kids? I used to find it sweet but unnecessary when my grandmother would give us a present and put the change from her spending limit into the card, but I now understand it a lot more!

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2287 on: December 28, 2016, 11:18:55 AM »
Playing with FIRE UK: Only that you'll be buying them presents for a good long while, so it'll even up over the years. And that they won't notice/care! Either that or to get them all a similar thing: e.g. All of my present receivers this year got a book, which has a naturally small variation in cost.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2288 on: December 28, 2016, 11:21:48 AM »
Does anyone have any tips for balancing out spending/number of presents between kids? I used to find it sweet but unnecessary when my grandmother would give us a present and put the change from her spending limit into the card, but I now understand it a lot more!
We set a budget for each kid, stay within that budget, and don't worry if the actual dollar amounts are equal.

moof

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2289 on: December 28, 2016, 12:06:40 PM »
For a trip that lasted a week, you managed to escape for a 4 day hike? My wife would've killed me.
Teehee.  Pre-nups sir, pre-nups.  We came into the marriage at 29 already somewhat set in our ways, and I laid out a few things that were important to me, including climbing trips and backpacking.  She laid out of few of hers like quilting stuff.  We each work to accommodate the others' special activities as best we can.  Having a kid was framed with continuing to assure each others' mental health though such support. 

So when she asks to go to a 3-day quilting retreat I take a day off work and take over kid duties without guilt tripping or anything of the sort.   I make her very reasonable requests my priority.  She returns the favor when I want to go on a week long climbing trip or a 4 day backpacking trip.  So far this has worked for us for 10 years and counting.

Besides, she was probably less stressed with me gone than constantly keeping her SIL and me from bickering.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2290 on: December 28, 2016, 12:52:30 PM »
it is good for a marriage and kids to have some time away to recharge. You are doing it right!

BTDretire

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2291 on: December 28, 2016, 01:13:55 PM »
I could, and even if I could get the wife on board, the prospect of that effort exhausts me. These gifts are sourced from 7+ stores, including amazon and some not anywhere near me, all not accompanied by a gift receipt. We are returning the large musical instrument and the 60" teddy bear though.

60" teddy bear, seems kinda like a white elephant!

Toffeemama

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2292 on: December 28, 2016, 02:09:30 PM »
Grandparents keep asking me when I'm going to go back to college.  I dropped out 11 or so years ago, and am happily home schooling my 3 kids.  I also make and sell paintings and illustrations, and teach fun paint classes.  But apparently I'm not achieving enough to satisfy them.

"Toffee, aren't you ever going to get a degree?"
"What would I do with a degree?"
"Anything you want!"
"Don't worry, I'm already doing anything I want."

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2293 on: December 28, 2016, 02:53:20 PM »
60" teddy bear, seems kinda like a white elephant!
I swear that almost every single big box retailer in my area was selling these things for $20 on Black Friday.

gimp

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2294 on: December 28, 2016, 03:51:28 PM »
One of my coworkers is going to Disney in November with her family (herself, husband, 2 adult children with their families).  They're planning to be there for a week, staying at one of the on-site hotels. They do this every year. They just bought a new car (a Cadillac of some flavor) for the drive (last year, they bought a Lexus for the drive). Of course, everyone must have new clothes for the vacation and all four grandchildren must have new Ipads so they can take pictures.

She told me this week that they'd cashed out her husband's 401K because they needed the money to pay off their credit cards so they'd be available for use on the Disney trip.

God damn, who buys a new car for a drive? Twice in a row?

Can I brag for a second? My 17-year-old buick, which I bought when it was 11 years old, has been to forty-nine states, driven by me within a two year span. Six Canadian provinces, some twenty-odd national parks. It was bought, maintained, and repaired on the budget of a college kid doing coop for half the year. Driven cross-country five times on that same budget, plus several other 1000+ and 2000+ road trips, all within that timeframe. (Since then, it's been driven a hell of a lot more, obviously.)

Sure, there were some mild issues - put 40k miles of road trip on a car and an issue can happen. But come on, a new car to drive to fucking disney? I'd drive across the country with two days warning on either one of my cars, no sweat; 150k and 90k miles on the clocks of each respectively.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2295 on: December 28, 2016, 05:15:31 PM »
Grandparents keep asking me when I'm going to go back to college.  I dropped out 11 or so years ago, and am happily home schooling my 3 kids.  I also make and sell paintings and illustrations, and teach fun paint classes.  But apparently I'm not achieving enough to satisfy them.

"Toffee, aren't you ever going to get a degree?"
"What would I do with a degree?"
"Anything you want!"
"Don't worry, I'm already doing anything I want."

Love this. I get this about holidays sometimes - no, I'm not desperate for a holiday because my daily life isn't so awful that I need to get away from it every few months!

With This Herring

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2296 on: December 28, 2016, 11:09:28 PM »
*snip*
Can I brag for a second? My 17-year-old buick, which I bought when it was 11 years old, has been to forty-nine states, driven by me within a two year span. Six Canadian provinces, some twenty-odd national parks.
*snip*

Oh please tell me that the non-contiguous state was not Alaska.  :)   But seriously, that is really impressive.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2297 on: December 29, 2016, 12:23:13 AM »
Can I brag for a second? My 17-year-old buick, which I bought when it was 11 years old, has been to forty-nine states, driven by me within a two year span. Six Canadian provinces, some twenty-odd national parks. It was bought, maintained, and repaired on the budget of a college kid doing coop for half the year. Driven cross-country five times on that same budget, plus several other 1000+ and 2000+ road trips, all within that timeframe. (Since then, it's been driven a hell of a lot more, obviously.)

Sure, there were some mild issues - put 40k miles of road trip on a car and an issue can happen. But come on, a new car to drive to fucking disney? I'd drive across the country with two days warning on either one of my cars, no sweat; 150k and 90k miles on the clocks of each respectively.

Fantastic.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2298 on: December 29, 2016, 02:13:45 AM »
Playing with FIRE UK: Only that you'll be buying them presents for a good long while, so it'll even up over the years. And that they won't notice/care! Either that or to get them all a similar thing: e.g. All of my present receivers this year got a book, which has a naturally small variation in cost.

Thanks shelivesthedream and zolotiyeruki. I'm sure this is entirely in my head. I'm a bit more sensitive to it than a well-adjusted person because there are a couple of relatives the generation above on one side who would make a big deal of buying bigger presents for their favourites (including one shining star who would buy a birthday present for one TWIN and 'forget' the other). Probably the bigger gift is constraining the neurotic behaviour to this generation. 

GilbertB

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2299 on: December 29, 2016, 05:02:50 PM »
Father buys new house , that he can't afford, to impress.
Then redoes the interior to fit a vacuuming system in the walls, that he can't afford, to impress.
To top it off, he installs a totally unnecessary massive automatic gate, that he can't afford, you've guessed it, to impress...

Now notices that he has boxed himself in a corner, but he finds a sulotion!
Frugality? Selling stuff? Putting a stop to renovations until solvent? No, no, no...
He "forgets" to pay alimony to my mum...

And he does stuff like this all the time... just makes me scared that I'll have to pay for his upkeep in old age because he blew his high income "to impress".