Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 783872 times)

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2000 on: October 17, 2016, 12:21:19 PM »
Maybe they got the mortgage to free up some of their $.  Probably they have enough income coming in to support their house. They can always sell if it does not work out. Also I had 2 Grandmas (1 with lots of $ and 1 poor). They both ended up in the same very nice nursing home.  Only difference was that medicaid  paid for one and my Grandma paid for the other.

CheapScholar

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2001 on: October 19, 2016, 10:36:05 AM »
My bro-in-law (who could have his own thread on not getting it) has a gf who is a public school teacher.  She is 29 and lives with her parents still.  I imagine she makes maybe 55K.  Two years ago she leased a BMW SUV at over $750 per month because this school is in a very wealthy town (which is true), and she said she'd be judged by not showing up to work in a nice car.

I thought she would have learned her lesson, but now she is saying she might lease the newer model. She is also well known for spending a few hundred bucks on clothes every single month.

Here's the kicker:  She is a 7th grade math teacher.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 10:41:04 AM by CheapScholar »

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2002 on: October 19, 2016, 12:06:00 PM »
There's math theory and math applications, I'm guessing she's better with the theory.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2003 on: October 19, 2016, 12:40:44 PM »
I mean, if she still lives with her parents, and (theoretically) only has to pay for the vehicle and the few hundred in new clothes, she could still be saving half her money... hehehe

Yeah, more likely she's squandering every cent of a massive saving opportunity.
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MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2004 on: October 19, 2016, 12:43:31 PM »
I mean, if she still lives with her parents, and (theoretically) only has to pay for the vehicle and the few hundred in new clothes, she could still be saving half her money... hehehe

Yeah, more likely she's squandering every cent of a massive saving opportunity.

Yup that's my sense. After college I lived with my parents for 4 years while working. It was a great arrangement for me monetarily (sanity, not so much). I saved as much as I could during that period, I didn't go out and buy/lease a new car or buy fancy things, instead I learned about personal finance and opened up a Vanguard account and put my savings in there. I was lucky to have the ability to move in with my parents and I believe I made the most of it.

Tjat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2005 on: October 19, 2016, 02:17:46 PM »
Yup that's my sense. After college I lived with my parents for 4 years while working. It was a great arrangement for me monetarily (sanity, not so much). I saved as much as I could during that period, I didn't go out and buy/lease a new car or buy fancy things, instead I learned about personal finance and opened up a Vanguard account and put my savings in there. I was lucky to have the ability to move in with my parents and I believe I made the most of it.

Ugh I still think back to my decisions right after college.

1) Finance a brand new car for $430 a month x 4 years
2) Rent a luxury house with 3 roommates for $1200 a month (EACH)
3) Spend $600 on ugly work clothes (think baggy dress shirts and triple pleated pants...thanks mens wearhouse!)

I fortunately rebounded

CheapScholar

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2006 on: October 19, 2016, 02:44:51 PM »
I mean, if she still lives with her parents, and (theoretically) only has to pay for the vehicle and the few hundred in new clothes, she could still be saving half her money... hehehe

Yeah, more likely she's squandering every cent of a massive saving opportunity.

Ha, no that is not the case!  She (and my bro-in-law) had an apartment but both moved back with respective parents over 3 years ago to "save for a downpayment" on a house.  It will be 4 years soon and they're not even close to having a downpayment.  Both are eating out for nearly every meal they consume, numerous vacations, each has a new SUV, Starbucks constantly, they go to concerts and sporting events constantly. They bought a designer dog together (while they had the aprtment). I could go on and on.  It could be a sitcom for people on this forum.

She's definitely NOT saving, I'd wager my own stache that she has quite a bit of CC debt.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2007 on: October 19, 2016, 03:04:26 PM »
I mean, if she still lives with her parents, and (theoretically) only has to pay for the vehicle and the few hundred in new clothes, she could still be saving half her money... hehehe

Yeah, more likely she's squandering every cent of a massive saving opportunity.

Ha, no that is not the case!  She (and my bro-in-law) had an apartment but both moved back with respective parents over 3 years ago to "save for a downpayment" on a house.  It will be 4 years soon and they're not even close to having a downpayment.  Both are eating out for nearly every meal they consume, numerous vacations, each has a new SUV, Starbucks constantly, they go to concerts and sporting events constantly. They bought a designer dog together (while they had the aprtment). I could go on and on.  It could be a sitcom for people on this forum.

She's definitely NOT saving, I'd wager my own stache that she has quite a bit of CC debt.

Ugh.

I'd be ok with an adult daughter/son  moving in to save money (assuming they help with cleaning/groceries/etc) - that's helping.

I would NOT be ok with an adult child moving in and eating in more restaurants than I do, driving a better car than I do, and buying newer clothes than I do, all while not contributing to the resources being used (groceries, mortgage, etc) - that's being taken advantage of.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2008 on: October 19, 2016, 03:08:27 PM »
Ha, no that is not the case!  She (and my bro-in-law) had an apartment but both moved back with respective parents over 3 years ago to "save for a downpayment" on a house.  It will be 4 years soon and they're not even close to having a downpayment.  Both are eating out for nearly every meal they consume, numerous vacations, each has a new SUV, Starbucks constantly, they go to concerts and sporting events constantly. They bought a designer dog together (while they had the aprtment). I could go on and on.  It could be a sitcom for people on this forum.

She's definitely NOT saving, I'd wager my own stache that she has quite a bit of CC debt.
It's easy to treat any new free cash flow as spending money, and I can't say I've never done it, but how does one go from such a very deliberate, practical decision, to just blowing it all? Do they even talk about this supposed down payment, or have they just given up?
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CheapScholar

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2009 on: October 19, 2016, 03:24:23 PM »
Ha, no that is not the case!  She (and my bro-in-law) had an apartment but both moved back with respective parents over 3 years ago to "save for a downpayment" on a house.  It will be 4 years soon and they're not even close to having a downpayment.  Both are eating out for nearly every meal they consume, numerous vacations, each has a new SUV, Starbucks constantly, they go to concerts and sporting events constantly. They bought a designer dog together (while they had the aprtment). I could go on and on.  It could be a sitcom for people on this forum.

She's definitely NOT saving, I'd wager my own stache that she has quite a bit of CC debt.
It's easy to treat any new free cash flow as spending money, and I can't say I've never done it, but how does one go from such a very deliberate, practical decision, to just blowing it all? Do they even talk about this supposed down payment, or have they just given up?

Well, I won't get into the details but they're both enabled by their parents.  They are both the youngest in their family.   My mother in law still buys clothes for him (and no, he doesn't pay her back).  He works for the GOV and makes maybe 80-90.  Again, she makes maybe 55.  The Chicago market is super expensive right now.  And, of course, these 2 spenders think they are entitled to a nice home.  He still talks about buying a home, but is super discouraged because the kind of home they want is probably 500K minimum.  They obviously do not have 100K to avoid PMI.  He is 32, she is 29.  I'm betting they finally move out next year.  Either they will rent a super fancy apartment again, or a bank will let them buy a McMansion and they will be stuck paying PMI and crazy IL property taxes.  Either scenario is hilarious IMO.

zephyr911

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2010 on: October 19, 2016, 03:35:21 PM »
Well, I won't get into the details but they're both enabled by their parents.  They are both the youngest in their family.   My mother in law still buys clothes for him (and no, he doesn't pay her back).  He works for the GOV and makes maybe 80-90.  Again, she makes maybe 55.  The Chicago market is super expensive right now.  And, of course, these 2 spenders think they are entitled to a nice home.  He still talks about buying a home, but is super discouraged because the kind of home they want is probably 500K minimum.  They obviously do not have 100K to avoid PMI.  He is 32, she is 29.  I'm betting they finally move out next year.  Either they will rent a super fancy apartment again, or a bank will let them buy a McMansion and they will be stuck paying PMI and crazy IL property taxes.  Either scenario is hilarious IMO.
...and ironically, with their income, and the home-field advantage, they could easily have saved $100K in half the time they've been back home (or less), and still had all kinds of fun. Piss poor, kids.
This could have been an awesome learning exercise... as is, they sound doomed to a life of high-earning mediocrity and frustration.
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mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2011 on: October 19, 2016, 03:52:19 PM »
Well, I won't get into the details but they're both enabled by their parents.  They are both the youngest in their family.   My mother in law still buys clothes for him (and no, he doesn't pay her back).  He works for the GOV and makes maybe 80-90.  Again, she makes maybe 55.  The Chicago market is super expensive right now.  And, of course, these 2 spenders think they are entitled to a nice home.  He still talks about buying a home, but is super discouraged because the kind of home they want is probably 500K minimum.  They obviously do not have 100K to avoid PMI.  He is 32, she is 29.  I'm betting they finally move out next year.  Either they will rent a super fancy apartment again, or a bank will let them buy a McMansion and they will be stuck paying PMI and crazy IL property taxes.  Either scenario is hilarious IMO.

I'm scared to ask, but what suburb?

CheapScholar

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2012 on: October 19, 2016, 03:56:25 PM »
Well, I won't get into the details but they're both enabled by their parents.  They are both the youngest in their family.   My mother in law still buys clothes for him (and no, he doesn't pay her back).  He works for the GOV and makes maybe 80-90.  Again, she makes maybe 55.  The Chicago market is super expensive right now.  And, of course, these 2 spenders think they are entitled to a nice home.  He still talks about buying a home, but is super discouraged because the kind of home they want is probably 500K minimum.  They obviously do not have 100K to avoid PMI.  He is 32, she is 29.  I'm betting they finally move out next year.  Either they will rent a super fancy apartment again, or a bank will let them buy a McMansion and they will be stuck paying PMI and crazy IL property taxes.  Either scenario is hilarious IMO.

I'm scared to ask, but what suburb?

That's another funny element to the story.  He lives in the south suburbs, she lives up north by the airport.  Which means whenever they want to see each other they drive their guzzling SUVs nearly an hour and pay tolls!!!  If they were to try to buy I'm guessing they'd be looking at Itasca or surrounding towns.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2013 on: October 20, 2016, 08:29:45 AM »
Well, I won't get into the details but they're both enabled by their parents.  They are both the youngest in their family.   My mother in law still buys clothes for him (and no, he doesn't pay her back).  He works for the GOV and makes maybe 80-90.  Again, she makes maybe 55.  The Chicago market is super expensive right now.  And, of course, these 2 spenders think they are entitled to a nice home.  He still talks about buying a home, but is super discouraged because the kind of home they want is probably 500K minimum.  They obviously do not have 100K to avoid PMI.  He is 32, she is 29.  I'm betting they finally move out next year.  Either they will rent a super fancy apartment again, or a bank will let them buy a McMansion and they will be stuck paying PMI and crazy IL property taxes.  Either scenario is hilarious IMO.

I'm scared to ask, but what suburb?

That's another funny element to the story.  He lives in the south suburbs, she lives up north by the airport.  Which means whenever they want to see each other they drive their guzzling SUVs nearly an hour and pay tolls!!!  If they were to try to buy I'm guessing they'd be looking at Itasca or surrounding towns.

What does that trip cost in a gas-guzzling SUV on a toll route?  How often do they visit?  Would they save more money just moving to the same cheap apartment?
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2014 on: October 20, 2016, 11:05:10 AM »
Maybe they got the mortgage to free up some of their $.  Probably they have enough income coming in to support their house. They can always sell if it does not work out. Also I had 2 Grandmas (1 with lots of $ and 1 poor). They both ended up in the same very nice nursing home.  Only difference was that medicaid  paid for one and my Grandma paid for the other.

FWIW the old house is worth $100K less than the new house. They got a mortgage for a lifestyle boost at 70+ yrs old. 

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2015 on: October 20, 2016, 11:23:44 AM »
Maybe they got the mortgage to free up some of their $.  Probably they have enough income coming in to support their house. They can always sell if it does not work out. Also I had 2 Grandmas (1 with lots of $ and 1 poor). They both ended up in the same very nice nursing home.  Only difference was that medicaid  paid for one and my Grandma paid for the other.

FWIW the old house is worth $100K less than the new house. They got a mortgage for a lifestyle boost at 70+ yrs old.

Not a bad idea if you expect to die before you pay off the mortgage.

onlykelsey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2016 on: October 20, 2016, 11:25:47 AM »
Maybe they got the mortgage to free up some of their $.  Probably they have enough income coming in to support their house. They can always sell if it does not work out. Also I had 2 Grandmas (1 with lots of $ and 1 poor). They both ended up in the same very nice nursing home.  Only difference was that medicaid  paid for one and my Grandma paid for the other.

FWIW the old house is worth $100K less than the new house. They got a mortgage for a lifestyle boost at 70+ yrs old.

Not a bad idea if you expect to die before you pay off the mortgage.

I've often wondered why folks in their 70s+ can get new mortgages/refis.  Is it just because age discrimination isn't allowed?  Or maybe they're betting on their kids wanting to keep the family house and thus taking over the mortgage?

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2017 on: October 20, 2016, 11:28:38 AM »
Maybe they got the mortgage to free up some of their $.  Probably they have enough income coming in to support their house. They can always sell if it does not work out. Also I had 2 Grandmas (1 with lots of $ and 1 poor). They both ended up in the same very nice nursing home.  Only difference was that medicaid  paid for one and my Grandma paid for the other.

FWIW the old house is worth $100K less than the new house. They got a mortgage for a lifestyle boost at 70+ yrs old.

Not a bad idea if you expect to die before you pay off the mortgage.

I've often wondered why folks in their 70s+ can get new mortgages/refis.  Is it just because age discrimination isn't allowed?  Or maybe they're betting on their kids wanting to keep the family house and thus taking over the mortgage?
A mortgage is a secured debt, so they'll eventually get paid one way or another.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2018 on: October 20, 2016, 11:32:58 AM »
Maybe they got the mortgage to free up some of their $.  Probably they have enough income coming in to support their house. They can always sell if it does not work out. Also I had 2 Grandmas (1 with lots of $ and 1 poor). They both ended up in the same very nice nursing home.  Only difference was that medicaid  paid for one and my Grandma paid for the other.

FWIW the old house is worth $100K less than the new house. They got a mortgage for a lifestyle boost at 70+ yrs old.

Not a bad idea if you expect to die before you pay off the mortgage.

I've often wondered why folks in their 70s+ can get new mortgages/refis.  Is it just because age discrimination isn't allowed?  Or maybe they're betting on their kids wanting to keep the family house and thus taking over the mortgage?
A mortgage is a secured debt, so they'll eventually get paid one way or another.

As a lawyer in an unrelated field, I get a friend or family member calling me at least twice a year because dad died underwater on his house, what do we do?  I wonder how many residential mortgages in the US are underwater. Maybe something like 15% nationally? http://www.zillow.com/visuals/negative-equity/#4/33.87/-100.81  I imagine the number is getting better as prices go up this year...  Still, not insignificant.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2019 on: October 20, 2016, 11:50:09 AM »
Maybe they got the mortgage to free up some of their $.  Probably they have enough income coming in to support their house. They can always sell if it does not work out. Also I had 2 Grandmas (1 with lots of $ and 1 poor). They both ended up in the same very nice nursing home.  Only difference was that medicaid  paid for one and my Grandma paid for the other.

FWIW the old house is worth $100K less than the new house. They got a mortgage for a lifestyle boost at 70+ yrs old.

Not a bad idea if you expect to die before you pay off the mortgage.

I've often wondered why folks in their 70s+ can get new mortgages/refis.  Is it just because age discrimination isn't allowed?  Or maybe they're betting on their kids wanting to keep the family house and thus taking over the mortgage?
A mortgage is a secured debt, so they'll eventually get paid one way or another.

As a lawyer in an unrelated field, I get a friend or family member calling me at least twice a year because dad died underwater on his house, what do we do?  I wonder how many residential mortgages in the US are underwater. Maybe something like 15% nationally? http://www.zillow.com/visuals/negative-equity/#4/33.87/-100.81  I imagine the number is getting better as prices go up this year...  Still, not insignificant.
Yes, but having a house that is underwater is a similar risk to those younger too.  I don't think there's much if any more risk lending to old people who either have income (pension or SSI) or savings.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2020 on: October 20, 2016, 11:58:29 AM »
Maybe they got the mortgage to free up some of their $.  Probably they have enough income coming in to support their house. They can always sell if it does not work out. Also I had 2 Grandmas (1 with lots of $ and 1 poor). They both ended up in the same very nice nursing home.  Only difference was that medicaid  paid for one and my Grandma paid for the other.

FWIW the old house is worth $100K less than the new house. They got a mortgage for a lifestyle boost at 70+ yrs old.

Not a bad idea if you expect to die before you pay off the mortgage.

I've often wondered why folks in their 70s+ can get new mortgages/refis.  Is it just because age discrimination isn't allowed?  Or maybe they're betting on their kids wanting to keep the family house and thus taking over the mortgage?

There has been discussion within the family about keeping the old home (60s/70s suburban home, not unique except for its memories) within the family. There are two members who are emotionally attached to it. One doesn't live in that city and the other can't afford to buy it but does live in the same city.

Now the elders are talking about renting it to the one relative meaning the elders will need a large mortgage on their new place or they'll deplete their savings.

Old house needs work typical for a house of it's age - some non-typical work. Wiring needs to be done (wonder if it has aluminum wiring, has had two small fires), some sheet rock replaced, all the trim replaced after being painted many times, etc. My thought would be to gut it to the studs in part of the house and start again. Some of it has been remodeled but the wiring is iffy in those parts too.

My thought it to get it presentable (close already), get the wiring inspected and repaired so nobody gets hurt, and get shed of it before the repairs multiply.

I'd choose to buy a house of similar cost that was configured better for their needs (single level) and avoid the expense of the mortgage. The retirement spending just continues their long term spending. Hope the money doesn't run out.

My thought is the money not spent on a mortgage would help them be more comfortable in their later years. It would enable them to travel or basically not worry too much about basic spending. Who wants to be penny-pinching at 75 yrs old?

They would benefit from continuing to build some savings so if he goes before she does - she has enough to last her until she passes on. I can't help it but I think about how close my own grandmothers came to being totally reliant on the gov't and the family at the end of their lives. They both faced more or less living a barracks lifestyle but with aged people and hospital beds. ;)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 12:03:54 PM by Joe Lucky »

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2021 on: October 20, 2016, 12:01:49 PM »
Maybe they got the mortgage to free up some of their $.  Probably they have enough income coming in to support their house. They can always sell if it does not work out. Also I had 2 Grandmas (1 with lots of $ and 1 poor). They both ended up in the same very nice nursing home.  Only difference was that medicaid  paid for one and my Grandma paid for the other.

FWIW the old house is worth $100K less than the new house. They got a mortgage for a lifestyle boost at 70+ yrs old.

Not a bad idea if you expect to die before you pay off the mortgage.

I've often wondered why folks in their 70s+ can get new mortgages/refis.  Is it just because age discrimination isn't allowed?  Or maybe they're betting on their kids wanting to keep the family house and thus taking over the mortgage?
A mortgage is a secured debt, so they'll eventually get paid one way or another.

And most retired people do have an income, even if it is just Social Security.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2022 on: October 20, 2016, 12:47:33 PM »
Yeah - but is it wise to spend faster than it comes in when your savings are limited? This is beyond the 4% I see recommended here I suspect.

Doesn't matter. Moving on. ;)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2023 on: October 22, 2016, 02:24:07 PM »
Yes because of age discrimination you can get a 30 year mortgage at 90 if you qualify. When you die your heirs sell the home and get what's left.  In general reverse mortgages are bad deals but for an older person that has too much of their $ in their home and not enough outside it is not a bad idea to take a 30 year loan for the smallest payment that they can afford and then take some of the cash out of the home for needs or travel or whatever. 

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2024 on: October 24, 2016, 09:25:52 AM »
I've often wondered why folks in their 70s+ can get new mortgages/refis.  Is it just because age discrimination isn't allowed?  Or maybe they're betting on their kids wanting to keep the family house and thus taking over the mortgage?

Nobody expects a person who gets a 30-year mortgage to still be there in 30 years. Most people will move and sell the house long before then, and people's jobs and financial situations change over time too, often dramatically. So banks are not evaluating whether this individual borrower is going to be able to pay off the mortgage; they're just looking at whether they can pay it now and over the next year or three or five, however long they have the house. That's true whether the borrower is 25 or 85.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2025 on: October 24, 2016, 11:47:30 AM »
I've often wondered why folks in their 70s+ can get new mortgages/refis.  Is it just because age discrimination isn't allowed?  Or maybe they're betting on their kids wanting to keep the family house and thus taking over the mortgage?

Nobody expects a person who gets a 30-year mortgage to still be there in 30 years. Most people will move and sell the house long before then, and people's jobs and financial situations change over time too, often dramatically. So banks are not evaluating whether this individual borrower is going to be able to pay off the mortgage; they're just looking at whether they can pay it now and over the next year or three or five, however long they have the house. That's true whether the borrower is 25 or 85.

You are exactly right.  And that's why most people in this country are nowhere near being Financially Independent.  Many people keep moving and/or upgrading their homes and enter new 30 year mortgages each time.  All the while just paying mostly interest to the banks.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2026 on: October 24, 2016, 02:23:53 PM »
Most mortgages are securitized and sold. Very few banks carry the note until the term.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2027 on: October 24, 2016, 02:28:14 PM »
I've often wondered why folks in their 70s+ can get new mortgages/refis.  Is it just because age discrimination isn't allowed?  Or maybe they're betting on their kids wanting to keep the family house and thus taking over the mortgage?

Nobody expects a person who gets a 30-year mortgage to still be there in 30 years. Most people will move and sell the house long before then, and people's jobs and financial situations change over time too, often dramatically. So banks are not evaluating whether this individual borrower is going to be able to pay off the mortgage; they're just looking at whether they can pay it now and over the next year or three or five, however long they have the house. That's true whether the borrower is 25 or 85.

I know someone that took about 40 years to pay down a 30 year mortgage due to multiple HELOCs. And yes, they did stay in that same house the entire time. Outlier situation I know but...

Remember different parts of the country are different in their own ways.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2028 on: October 24, 2016, 02:45:44 PM »
Most mortgages are securitized and sold. Very few banks carry the note until the term.

My credit union does. ***bliss***
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Jakejake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2029 on: November 16, 2016, 09:53:57 AM »
My parents have been bailing out my sister (in her 50's) from bad financial decisions for decades. They loan her money so her house won't get foreclosed on; she spends $500 on an exotic breed of house cat, that sort of thing. Just found out she used some of the money she borrowed from my parents' retirement fund to donate "hundreds of dollars" (she didn't say how many hundreds) to the presidential campaign.


TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2030 on: November 17, 2016, 07:08:35 AM »

As a lawyer in an unrelated field, I get a friend or family member calling me at least twice a year because dad died underwater on his house, what do we do?  I wonder how many residential mortgages in the US are underwater. Maybe something like 15% nationally? http://www.zillow.com/visuals/negative-equity/#4/33.87/-100.81  I imagine the number is getting better as prices go up this year...  Still, not insignificant.

Hope that most of the assets bypass the estate?
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JLee

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2031 on: November 17, 2016, 07:31:57 AM »
Lots of guessing on the particulars of his truck but AutoZone (and other FLAPS) has a replacement transmission for $1600 with a good warranty. A few hundred to install it if he wasn't inclined to do it himself and he'd be back on the road.

Why do people do financial hari-kari to themselves so casually?

Yea, it can be pretty amazing to find out how affordable some EOTW car crisis's are. My kid's Focus puked an automatic. My local mechanic had one shipped straight from the Ford's rebuilder, in a plane white box. It was installed for $2k. It came with a significant warranty, and was roughly half of what the dealer would of charged to install the same transmission from "Ford".

I have a Focus, and just found out that my transmission will probably fail prematurely due to Ford's screwing up. Lovely.

I have a ford as well, a 2013 focus and they just completely replaced my transmission last month.  They told me that they have extended the warranties to cover any transmission-related issues for 150k miles, which I really think should be longer.

My roommate has a 2013 C-Max Energi and he had his transmission replaced under warranty a few months ago. Seems to be a trend...

rawr237

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2032 on: November 21, 2016, 11:43:45 AM »
My mom isn't nearly as ridiculous as most people featured here but...

#1:
I was telling her about the tattoo I'm thinking of getting: the word 'enough' on my forearm, in small script. My brief explanation for her was that it's about having enough, and realizing I don't really need more than I already have. Her response: "That's so sad." I couldn't make her understand that it's a joyful realization, not one of deprivation.


#2:
We're having an ongoing debate about my car. A year ago somebody dented the rear fender corner. The repair quote was $800, and the auto shop said the dent wouldn't affect the impact protection function of the bumper...so I left it. This stranger had already cost me the stress and time of filing the report with the police, and taking it to the shop for the quote, and contacting my insurance -- why pay for a cosmetic improvement? (I don't judge people who care about how their cars look, but that is not something I value at all.) I jokingly call the dent my "free theft protection" because the 11-year old beige Prius with a dent seems less likely to get stolen or broken into than a more pristine vehicle.

My mom kept asking if I would get it fixed, finally offering to pay for it as a Christmas gift. My response: "That would be a Christmas gift for you, not me...because you're the one who cares about how the car looks." said in a lighthearted tone...my dad laughed, though I don't think he really understands me on this point ("Don't you want to drive around in a nice looking car?"). I appreciate the thought, but if my parents insist on spending $800 on my Christmas gifts I would definitely choose other things (Roomba!). Mom hasn't mentioned it again since then, but I expect it to come up eventually.


Mitigating point is that thankfully my parents actually have managed their money well. Though not mustachian by far, they've always lived within their means, and my dad's corporate career is allowing him to retire at 57 despite pricey restaurant, wine, and travel habits. I can't complain as I'm a beneficiary of said habits :) Mom is SAHM who recently got her M.Ed. and started teaching ESL for...fun I think. My parents have given me so much that I want to be clear I'm not judging or ragging on them. They just don't understand that I already have way too much stuff, and that though we (bf and I) will likely move into another house, it doesn't need to be bigger -- just more efficiently laid out (plus garage and backyard).

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2033 on: November 21, 2016, 12:51:24 PM »
We had a family member stay last night who, after a couple of hours and a couple of drinks, asked me an odd question.

Him: So... is this your furniture?
Me: ಠ_ಠ
Him: Oh I just wondered if you were renting it, because it's all really nice stuff.

I just laughed.

In the room he was admiring, five out seven pieces were from eBay, the sixth was floor stock, and the seventh was Ikea.

Also, who rents furniture?

rawr237

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2034 on: November 21, 2016, 01:01:44 PM »
Another in the not-totally-ridiculous but mildly frustrating category...

My youngest sister doesn't "get it" yet, has an impulsive personality that has led to various financial errors...one or two would be understandable due to youthful foolishness (age 23), but in the last year she:
  • Consistently goes over the family data limit -- parents charge her for overages
  • Paid overdraft fees repeatedly
  • Got a tattoo - knowing that parental support (tuition + housing + utilities + groceries, during undergrad) would be cut off as a result
  • Was taken in by an apartment scam (after Dad told her to check the legitimacy, she put zero effort into doing so)
  • Received a 15k inheritance and spent it all within 6 months
  • Did not complete her summer classes (citing mental health issues), delaying graduation by a year
  • Signed up for one fall class, then dropped it after the deadline -- parents are making her pay back the tuition
  • Accepted an unpaid internship in Hawaii (housing paid, but she bought her own flight. And in her industry co-ops are typically paid)

It's just frustrating knowing that she has been given all of the advantages that I (and our middle sister) have, and squandered them a bit. My parents generously covered our basic living expenses and tuition through undergrad, wanting us to avoid student debt...the only condition was not getting a tattoo until we graduate. But she just couldn't wait "I need to EXPRESS MYSELF" -- lucky for her my parents softened and are still covering her tuition, just not the room/board.

It seems like she expects her college life to be as luxurious as life at home...lots of meals out, wine, fancy groceries, travel. She doesn't seem to understand the consequences of her actions. In her view none of us understand her because she is artistic, vs. me (engineer), Dad (engineer), Mom (engineering degree), other sister (soon-to-be doctor) -- and somehow this is a justification for her lifestyle and spending choices, and not taking our advice.

It makes me sad knowing that she's going to graduate with debt (she owes my parents some thousands to cover the apt scam costs and tuition for the class she dropped) when she could easily be in the black. I try to gently start financial conversations, and take her out to lunch/dinner now and then...she just doesn't see that the reason I can easily treat her to dinner is because I save money. I'm no super-Mustachian, but I save around 50%. I don't want to push her away with facepunches, currently I'm hoping that graduating into the real world with grownup expenses with be the reality check that she needs.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2035 on: November 21, 2016, 01:30:55 PM »
My parents generously covered our basic living expenses and tuition through undergrad, wanting us to avoid student debt...the only condition was not getting a tattoo until we graduate.

It's totally their money, so I agree that they can put up any conditions they feel warranted. Still, "just don't get a tattoo" seems a little, I don't know, specific and arbitrary? Like, if that was my parents' condition, I'd probably either get a tattoo and hide it or get one at graduation whether I actually wanted it or not.

(FWIW, I have a tattoo...that I got at age 25.)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2036 on: November 21, 2016, 01:35:18 PM »
My parents generously covered our basic living expenses and tuition through undergrad, wanting us to avoid student debt...the only condition was not getting a tattoo until we graduate.

It's totally their money, so I agree that they can put up any conditions they feel warranted. Still, "just don't get a tattoo" seems a little, I don't know, specific and arbitrary? Like, if that was my parents' condition, I'd probably either get a tattoo and hide it or get one at graduation whether I actually wanted it or not.

(FWIW, I have a tattoo...that I got at age 25.)

It could be that, or it could be more that the parents were saying, "If you want to make adult decisions, then you must be willing to pay for all parts of being an adult (and not just the cool things." As a kid, I imagined being able to eat Taco Bell whenever I wanted as the ultimate life goal, now that I'm an adult and my metabolism has slowed down, the thought of Taco Bell generally makes me nauseous. The idea of eating it everyday strikes me as a something reserved as punishment.

It seems to be similar to the whole 'you live under my roof you live by my rules,' which way too many people fail to appreciate. I know of a ton of people (me included) that expected to be able to do what I wanted while living at home after college.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2037 on: November 21, 2016, 03:06:16 PM »
Another in the not-totally-ridiculous but mildly frustrating category...

My youngest sister doesn't "get it" yet, has an impulsive personality that has led to various financial errors...one or two would be understandable due to youthful foolishness (age 23), but in the last year she:
  • Consistently goes over the family data limit -- parents charge her for overages
  • Paid overdraft fees repeatedly
  • Got a tattoo - knowing that parental support (tuition + housing + utilities + groceries, during undergrad) would be cut off as a result
  • Was taken in by an apartment scam (after Dad told her to check the legitimacy, she put zero effort into doing so)
  • Received a 15k inheritance and spent it all within 6 months
  • Did not complete her summer classes (citing mental health issues), delaying graduation by a year
  • Signed up for one fall class, then dropped it after the deadline -- parents are making her pay back the tuition
  • Accepted an unpaid internship in Hawaii (housing paid, but she bought her own flight. And in her industry co-ops are typically paid)

It's just frustrating knowing that she has been given all of the advantages that I (and our middle sister) have, and squandered them a bit. My parents generously covered our basic living expenses and tuition through undergrad, wanting us to avoid student debt...the only condition was not getting a tattoo until we graduate. But she just couldn't wait "I need to EXPRESS MYSELF" -- lucky for her my parents softened and are still covering her tuition, just not the room/board.

It seems like she expects her college life to be as luxurious as life at home...lots of meals out, wine, fancy groceries, travel. She doesn't seem to understand the consequences of her actions. In her view none of us understand her because she is artistic, vs. me (engineer), Dad (engineer), Mom (engineering degree), other sister (soon-to-be doctor) -- and somehow this is a justification for her lifestyle and spending choices, and not taking our advice.

It makes me sad knowing that she's going to graduate with debt (she owes my parents some thousands to cover the apt scam costs and tuition for the class she dropped) when she could easily be in the black. I try to gently start financial conversations, and take her out to lunch/dinner now and then...she just doesn't see that the reason I can easily treat her to dinner is because I save money. I'm no super-Mustachian, but I save around 50%. I don't want to push her away with facepunches, currently I'm hoping that graduating into the real world with grownup expenses with be the reality check that she needs.

This is really interesting. My first reaction (I have a business degree and en engineering degree) is that the sister is being completely illogical and therefore she should just start thinking logically about things. But that sort of reaction is not going to create different behavior; it is more likely to create an emotional reaction and family division.

What would a conversation look like that engages the sister and mobilizes her way of thinking to drive toward more realistic and positive outcomes? These probably won't be the same outcomes that the engineers and doctor of the family would pursue or the methods they would use, but hopefully something more realistic than the current approach.

I am fascinated by this problem because so often at work I run into people that "just don't think logically", which really means "just don't use the same logic or knowledge base that I do."  Plus, one of my kids may end up like the sister - much more artsy and intuitive, but less linear in her thinking. So any tips I learn here are things I may be to apply both at home and work. 

K-ice

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2038 on: November 21, 2016, 11:12:11 PM »
I have no advice on how to relate to the artsy types. I know a lot of MMM are from STEM backgrounds.

It's easy for us to find the formula, & excel the shit out of various permutations & combinations. All while using Spock Type logic.

The 25x anual spending is quite simple math but many people cowar at any math.

I actually thought we might be realated when you mentioned the paid for school, dropping out of classes etc. as there is one of those in my family too.

How to convince people to get better with their finances when they aren't willing to balance a checkbook is a challenge.

The checkbook is an antiquated reference but I'm sure you know the type. They are also allergic to online banking.

Anyway, I'm following if any of you have tips for dealing with less logical people.




JoeO

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2039 on: November 22, 2016, 05:58:16 AM »
Tom: They did not move to an elder friendly house.  At 70 they moved to a house twice the size of their old one.  They wanted a newer, bigger house even though they can't afford it.  Both homes were out in the burbs.

I wonder if it's something like not wanting to admit to oneself that life is kind of starting to wind down. I know my mother's move from her house to a one-bedroom apartment - necessary because we kids could see she no longer could live alone - was hard on her because it forced her to admit that her life was nearing its end. She was 79 though.

I think a 70 year old moving to a big house might be something like "Hey life is getting bigger and better, not smaller." Humans will do almost anything to alleviate anxiety, including anxiety about growing older.

Also my parents were hyper frugal all their lives, never thinking they had enough money for retirement and end of life care, and died with too much money left. I wish they had spent more on themselves, traveling and such, or having more comforts at home. Mother loved special and unique homes but never had one. I wish they had taken the plunge to get some of those things for themselves. But Depression children and all that....

But you say these people can't afford it. So that is super frustrating. I hope family doesn't have to step in and pay for them.

I repeat: Humans will do almost anything to alleviate anxiety. In fact, I think almost all bad decisions people make can be traced to this desperate human urge and need.



Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2040 on: November 22, 2016, 07:35:04 AM »
I have no advice on how to relate to the artsy types. I know a lot of MMM are from STEM backgrounds.

It's easy for us to find the formula, & excel the shit out of various permutations & combinations. All while using Spock Type logic.

The 25x anual spending is quite simple math but many people cowar at any math.

I actually thought we might be realated when you mentioned the paid for school, dropping out of classes etc. as there is one of those in my family too.

How to convince people to get better with their finances when they aren't willing to balance a checkbook is a challenge.

The checkbook is an antiquated reference but I'm sure you know the type. They are also allergic to online banking.

Anyway, I'm following if any of you have tips for dealing with less logical people.

Well, my husband and I are both 'artsy-ish' (I'm more analytical than he is, and am the one who handles the household finances). I have a degree in English Lit (with minors in european history and women's studies - very employable) and my husband has a degree in music composition, with minors in classical languages and, I believe, history.

(Side-note: THIS is what happens when you tell a 17-year-old who doesn't know what they want to do with life, and therefore what degree they'd need to have, and are therefore intending to take a gap year or two and work and figure it out, that that is OUT OF THE QUESTION and YOU ARE PAYING FOR UNIVERSITY AND THEY ARE GOING RIGHT NOW. The 17-year-old will buckle, take the free tuition, and say something like 'well, I like reading and history, I can spend the next 3 years in the library, sure'. If you asked me today what I'd go study, it'd be finances and accounting. 17-year-olds backed into a corner and told to make an immediate choice with no information will make STUPID CHOICES. Rant over.)

But, yeah. Husband is A Musician. As in, played in a (semi-successful, locally) ska band for 3 years post-university, all his friends are musicians, etc. And a lot of my friends are actual artists, or absent-minded English professors. I feel like I can speak to this. ;)

a) Some people have a Very Big Mental Block re: math. MATH HARD, they say. Can't do math. And for a lot of artists, there's an even bigger block around money. Literally, I've had a competent and otherwise intelligent person ask me to remove dollar signs from a spreadsheet because 'I can't understand numbers if they're dollars' (and I was like, um, we're talking finances, the dollars are THE POINT.) There's not much you can do to MAKE someone overcome this.

b) If people are actively artists, and involved in artistic communities, money has, emotionally, negative value. As in, emotional and social lack of currency. I dunno if you've noticed, but in a lot of artists communities, people who make money have 'sold out', bands who sign contracts for actual cash have also 'sold out' and 'used to be better' and lose a lot of local fanbase (and their friends/first fans get WAY more critical), AND there's this implicit attitude that everyone is broke and in it together and that if you have any money you 'owe' it to the community to spread it around a wee bit? None of this makes sense logically, BUT if someone is involved in that community and has internalized the concept, it can be REALLY hard to get them to think about money logically, if they think money is representative of selling out, losing the legitimacy of their art, and losing the support of their community. Subtext and emotions are important here.

c) I think you can't MAKE someone want early retirement, or even save for retirement at all. We're a specific subset who have both the desire and the focus and understanding to make it happen.

d) THAT said, you can help lead someone to budgeting (assuming they're not focussed on making more money, and WANT to live on 600$/month because it's 'easier', they have to know what they can spend on what to actually live on that).

e) sometimes, you just can't affect things. Make your peace with that. Like, I'm looking at my younger brother... and if that boy manages to avoid declaring bankrupcy by 25, I'll be pleasantly surprised (car+apartment+expensive restaurant habit+student and severely underemployed and quit both jobs that actually payed money, and even when he was getting decent money he wasn't making ends meet). But I tell myself that I can lead him to budgeting, and I can give him advice, but I can't make him take it. And, frankly, the life consequences of declaring bankrupcy as a single 24-year-old with too much credit card debt? Way better than doing it as a married father of 3 with 2 kids in college, y'know. It's never easy, and it's never pleasant, but it's also not my life or my choices. And I am aware that continually bailing him out will NOT result in him learning, it'll result in the same mistakes over and over again because 'well, it worked last time'.

If he realizes that there was a problem with what he was doing and wanted my advice to help improve the overall situation, I'd be there. If the problem is that he didn't pay his cell phone bill on time for the 6th time this year and it was cut off, well... I'll pay your bill when you show me a plan for having that not happen again. Otherwise, I become your plan, and that's not an option I'm willing to bring into my life.

Artsy flakes. We can love 'em, but...

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2041 on: November 22, 2016, 08:38:45 AM »
b) If people are actively artists, and involved in artistic communities, money has, emotionally, negative value. As in, emotional and social lack of currency. I dunno if you've noticed, but in a lot of artists communities, people who make money have 'sold out', bands who sign contracts for actual cash have also 'sold out' and 'used to be better' and lose a lot of local fanbase (and their friends/first fans get WAY more critical), AND there's this implicit attitude that everyone is broke and in it together and that if you have any money you 'owe' it to the community to spread it around a wee bit? None of this makes sense logically, BUT if someone is involved in that community and has internalized the concept, it can be REALLY hard to get them to think about money logically, if they think money is representative of selling out, losing the legitimacy of their art, and losing the support of their community. Subtext and emotions are important here.
Hmmm.  This sounds like a market niche that could use filling.  Someone who can work with the artsy types, take care of their contracts and money and such, so the musicians can focus on making music and kumbaya-ing.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2042 on: November 22, 2016, 10:02:13 AM »
(Side-note: THIS is what happens when you tell a 17-year-old who doesn't know what they want to do with life, and therefore what degree they'd need to have, and are therefore intending to take a gap year or two and work and figure it out, that that is OUT OF THE QUESTION and YOU ARE PAYING FOR UNIVERSITY AND THEY ARE GOING RIGHT NOW. The 17-year-old will buckle, take the free tuition, and say something like 'well, I like reading and history, I can spend the next 3 years in the library, sure'. If you asked me today what I'd go study, it'd be finances and accounting. 17-year-olds backed into a corner and told to make an immediate choice with no information will make STUPID CHOICES. Rant over.)

^^^ Quoted for a massive FUCK YEAH from a fellow English B.A. (honours) who uses my linguistic might chiefly to entertain people on this message board. For the record, I did end up monetizing that shit but it was after putting myself through engineering school.

The mantra of "get a degree, it doesn't matter in what, but any degree, NOW-NOW-NOW" does serious damage to humans. It's possible to make a very good living in music and art, with the appropriate training and a realistic approach to what business will look like. Part of that training requires rejecting the notion that being broke is a necessary part of being artistic, or that it's bad to want money or to manage it intelligently.
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Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2043 on: November 22, 2016, 10:15:56 AM »
b) If people are actively artists, and involved in artistic communities, money has, emotionally, negative value. As in, emotional and social lack of currency. I dunno if you've noticed, but in a lot of artists communities, people who make money have 'sold out', bands who sign contracts for actual cash have also 'sold out' and 'used to be better' and lose a lot of local fanbase (and their friends/first fans get WAY more critical), AND there's this implicit attitude that everyone is broke and in it together and that if you have any money you 'owe' it to the community to spread it around a wee bit? None of this makes sense logically, BUT if someone is involved in that community and has internalized the concept, it can be REALLY hard to get them to think about money logically, if they think money is representative of selling out, losing the legitimacy of their art, and losing the support of their community. Subtext and emotions are important here.
Hmmm.  This sounds like a market niche that could use filling.  Someone who can work with the artsy types, take care of their contracts and money and such, so the musicians can focus on making music and kumbaya-ing.

Ish? Like, yes, it's a niche, but a) you're dealing with broke musicians who don't want to pay ANY money for services, and b) they're FLAKES, and you basically have to triple your rates to break even on the time it takes to wrangle them. High-effort niche, to say the least.


Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2044 on: November 22, 2016, 10:17:58 AM »
(Side-note: THIS is what happens when you tell a 17-year-old who doesn't know what they want to do with life, and therefore what degree they'd need to have, and are therefore intending to take a gap year or two and work and figure it out, that that is OUT OF THE QUESTION and YOU ARE PAYING FOR UNIVERSITY AND THEY ARE GOING RIGHT NOW. The 17-year-old will buckle, take the free tuition, and say something like 'well, I like reading and history, I can spend the next 3 years in the library, sure'. If you asked me today what I'd go study, it'd be finances and accounting. 17-year-olds backed into a corner and told to make an immediate choice with no information will make STUPID CHOICES. Rant over.)

^^^ Quoted for a massive FUCK YEAH from a fellow English B.A. (honours) who uses my linguistic might chiefly to entertain people on this message board. For the record, I did end up monetizing that shit but it was after putting myself through engineering school.

The mantra of "get a degree, it doesn't matter in what, but any degree, NOW-NOW-NOW" does serious damage to humans. It's possible to make a very good living in music and art, with the appropriate training and a realistic approach to what business will look like. Part of that training requires rejecting the notion that being broke is a necessary part of being artistic, or that it's bad to want money or to manage it intelligently.

My SIL did an illustrator course at Sheridan College in Ontario. Great feature of the art programs there: about 50% of the classes are art-related, and the other 50% are things like marketing, finances, bookeeping, etc. Result: a lot of VERY successful illustrators, video game designers, etc in Canada are graduates of that program, because not only do they learn the skills of the trade, but they learn how to organize, make money, and run a freakin' business built on the skills of the trade.

No other college I've seen does this. It is a MASSIVE lack in art programs.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2045 on: November 22, 2016, 10:19:58 AM »
b) If people are actively artists, and involved in artistic communities, money has, emotionally, negative value. As in, emotional and social lack of currency. I dunno if you've noticed, but in a lot of artists communities, people who make money have 'sold out', bands who sign contracts for actual cash have also 'sold out' and 'used to be better' and lose a lot of local fanbase (and their friends/first fans get WAY more critical), AND there's this implicit attitude that everyone is broke and in it together and that if you have any money you 'owe' it to the community to spread it around a wee bit? None of this makes sense logically, BUT if someone is involved in that community and has internalized the concept, it can be REALLY hard to get them to think about money logically, if they think money is representative of selling out, losing the legitimacy of their art, and losing the support of their community. Subtext and emotions are important here.
Hmmm.  This sounds like a market niche that could use filling.  Someone who can work with the artsy types, take care of their contracts and money and such, so the musicians can focus on making music and kumbaya-ing.

Ish? Like, yes, it's a niche, but a) you're dealing with broke musicians who don't want to pay ANY money for services, and b) they're FLAKES, and you basically have to triple your rates to break even on the time it takes to wrangle them. High-effort niche, to say the least.

They're called agents and managers.
I squeak softly, but carry a big schtick.

infogoon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2046 on: November 22, 2016, 10:33:47 AM »
Quoted for a massive FUCK YEAH from a fellow English B.A. (honours) who uses my linguistic might chiefly to entertain people on this message board. For the record, I did end up monetizing that shit but it was after putting myself through engineering school.

Heh, me too. BA in English, which I fortunately paid for by working IT jobs so I actually had job options after I graduated. Went back for a Computer Science degree a few years later.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2047 on: November 22, 2016, 10:36:16 AM »
Ish? Like, yes, it's a niche, but a) you're dealing with broke musicians who don't want to pay ANY money for services, and b) they're FLAKES, and you basically have to triple your rates to break even on the time it takes to wrangle them. High-effort niche, to say the least.

Sorry for the double post.

I think this would be an excellent niche for tradespeople, rather than artists and musicians. I have a lot of friends who work as plumbers / drywall hangers / carpenters and the like who do excellent work but just cannot stay on top of things like billing and scheduling jobs. They hate doing it and it never gets done.

Hell, my brother-in-law runs a landscaping company and constantly forgets to even bill people. His wife brings in a couple "windfalls" a year when she goes through the books and sends bills to delinquent accounts.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2048 on: November 22, 2016, 10:39:10 AM »
Ish? Like, yes, it's a niche, but a) you're dealing with broke musicians who don't want to pay ANY money for services, and b) they're FLAKES, and you basically have to triple your rates to break even on the time it takes to wrangle them. High-effort niche, to say the least.

Sorry for the double post.

I think this would be an excellent niche for tradespeople, rather than artists and musicians. I have a lot of friends who work as plumbers / drywall hangers / carpenters and the like who do excellent work but just cannot stay on top of things like billing and scheduling jobs. They hate doing it and it never gets done.

Hell, my brother-in-law runs a landscaping company and constantly forgets to even bill people. His wife brings in a couple "windfalls" a year when she goes through the books and sends bills to delinquent accounts.

Huh. One copy of some scheduling software for different people, one copy of a basic accounting software package, a phone line, a computer, and you're in like Flynn. That could work. You'd have to have everyone pay you first, though, and remit the balance to the contractor that hired you.
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #2049 on: November 22, 2016, 10:44:54 AM »
Ish? Like, yes, it's a niche, but a) you're dealing with broke musicians who don't want to pay ANY money for services, and b) they're FLAKES, and you basically have to triple your rates to break even on the time it takes to wrangle them. High-effort niche, to say the least.

Sorry for the double post.

I think this would be an excellent niche for tradespeople, rather than artists and musicians. I have a lot of friends who work as plumbers / drywall hangers / carpenters and the like who do excellent work but just cannot stay on top of things like billing and scheduling jobs. They hate doing it and it never gets done.

Hell, my brother-in-law runs a landscaping company and constantly forgets to even bill people. His wife brings in a couple "windfalls" a year when she goes through the books and sends bills to delinquent accounts.

Huh. One copy of some scheduling software for different people, one copy of a basic accounting software package, a phone line, a computer, and you're in like Flynn. That could work. You'd have to have everyone pay you first, though, and remit the balance to the contractor that hired you.

I think we just invented the General Contractor. Heh.