Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 642851 times)

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #150 on: April 22, 2015, 09:55:24 AM »
...doing whatever a 22 year old without any major responsibilities does.

"See #1"?


Excellent point.

How expensive is that stuff anyway? I thought hippies had no money because they dropped out of the mainstream economy. If they don't have any money, how can they afford to be stereotypically "high" all the time?
That's a good question.  Speaking of the "hippies", my sister (who is in her 60s) grew that good organic stuff back in the 80's.  I'm pretty sure she's been off it for decades, but her 30-something year old son self-medicates his ADD with it. And he lives in CO, so he might be growing it now.

I live in CA, and apparently it's relatively common here for adults to do it from time to time.

I'm almost 45 and haven't ever even smoked a cigarette.

Syonyk

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #151 on: April 22, 2015, 10:49:39 AM »
It's amazing to me that people with professional jobs hardly keep any buffer in savings. What happens when you need cash immediately for your furnace or air conditioner? Or some real emergency, like, say, staying out of jail?

You put it on your credit card!  Duh!  That's what they're there for!  *sigh*

I used to get a lot of the "Discover Checks" in the mail.  They are basically a check drawn against your credit line with cash advance fees tacked on, and they talked about how great they were to keep around for things like vacations, emergencies, etc.  The CC companies very much push the "A CC is an emergency fund" way of thinking...
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Megma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #152 on: April 22, 2015, 12:47:46 PM »

I consulted my weed costs authority for you and apparently "good stuff" (ie what middle aged people who still smoke would get, not high school kids) is $60 for an 1/8 ounce (3.5 grams). That's about 3 joints depending on how you roll them (with tobacco and how much, etc). Prices go down if you buy in bulk, like you know Costco style, or buy the shitty stuff.

Price varies by where you are and who you know, and of course, what quality you are buying. For an eighth to be 3 joints, they must be some massive joints. I know some heavy smokers with high tolerance and they say that a good quality eight that they buy for $50 lasts them an entire week. For them, that means that they are smoking multiple bowls each night after work. Rolling joints in their experience is a complete waste of money. Instead they recommend getting a one-hitter or packing a small bowl. The only times that they pack a full bowl is if they are toking with friends and are going to be passing it around.

That said, the future of weed is going to be wax and oil concentrates. I know a few people that will buy a gram of wax for maybe $40-50, and it can last them a month, in which they are getting a pretty good high each month. This reduces their cost significantly and as they use a vape pen, it is easier on their throat.

MgoSam apparently knows way more about this that I do! Maybe he said it was 5 joints depending on the roll? Either way, costs can add up quickly!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 12:53:24 PM by Megma »
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #153 on: April 22, 2015, 12:58:17 PM »
Here you can usually get good stuff, $60 for a quarter (7 grams) I agree that joints are a waste.  I know people that smoke a quarter a week so 240 a month on just pot

rocketpj

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #154 on: April 22, 2015, 03:38:10 PM »
Here you can usually get good stuff, $60 for a quarter (7 grams) I agree that joints are a waste.  I know people that smoke a quarter a week so 240 a month on just pot

I don't smoke the stuff anymore, but here on Coastal BC the price is somewhat less dear as far as I can tell.  I never 'quit' smoking weed so much as gradually lost interest until I recently realized that I haven't smoked it in about 5years (when I found some in my spice cupboard that was as dry as a mummy). 

That said, it is like any other thing.  A person can spend boatloads of cash on coffee, or smokes, or beer.  It can take over their lives, or not.  Personality is a part of it.  I have known more than one person with a variety or ADHD who smokes a lot of weed, and which seems to bring them down to a more stable level of function.  Me I start at stable and go down into drooling passivity, which is of no interest to me, but to each their own.

zephyr911

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #155 on: April 23, 2015, 10:14:39 AM »
It's amazing to me that people with professional jobs hardly keep any buffer in savings. What happens when you need cash immediately for your furnace or air conditioner? Or some real emergency, like, say, staying out of jail?

You put it on your credit card!  Duh!  That's what they're there for!  *sigh*

I used to get a lot of the "Discover Checks" in the mail.  They are basically a check drawn against your credit line with cash advance fees tacked on, and they talked about how great they were to keep around for things like vacations, emergencies, etc.  The CC companies very much push the "A CC is an emergency fund" way of thinking...
I once put an AC unit on one card (cash reward, ~$55) then transferred most of the balance to another for a 1% fee ($45 or so) and took 18 months to pay it off at 0% while plowing money into TSP and IRAs... worked pretty well for me. Springy debt cushion > emergency fund.
Of course, even with a high-700s score I don't get offers like that lately. I think they've figured out I'm bad for business.
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Hunny156

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #156 on: April 23, 2015, 11:51:59 AM »
It's amazing to me that people with professional jobs hardly keep any buffer in savings. What happens when you need cash immediately for your furnace or air conditioner? Or some real emergency, like, say, staying out of jail?

You put it on your credit card!  Duh!  That's what they're there for!  *sigh*

I used to get a lot of the "Discover Checks" in the mail.  They are basically a check drawn against your credit line with cash advance fees tacked on, and they talked about how great they were to keep around for things like vacations, emergencies, etc.  The CC companies very much push the "A CC is an emergency fund" way of thinking...

My friends have a known issue w/their A/C unit, which, needs to be replaced.  Last year, they had refrigerant added to squeeze out another year, and they then got one of those home warranty programs.  The plan is to wait for it to crap out this year, and then get the home warranty program to pay for the replacement.  They are convinced this will happen easily, they've "done their research" on this program.

Last month they were in a huff b/c their water/ice dispenser on the fridge is broken.  Apparently, it's a known manufacturer defect.  Instead of handling the problem when it first popped up years ago, they decided to just start buying bottled water for the fridge instead.  Now that they have the home warranty program, they called them in, which was a multi-visit hassle.  In the end, they paid for the service call, and the home warranty program denied their claim, since it was a known manufacturer defect.  The home warranty program contacted the manufacturer, who agreed to send a replacement door for the warranty program to install.  They have refused that option, b/c their online research shows that this only solves the problem for a few years, the real issue is in the back of the unit.  They are now waiting for a sale to just throw out this useless fridge and buy a brand new one.  I suggested they take up the offer of a new door, use it for a few months and then sell the unit on Craig's List, or hey, just live w/o an ice/water dispenser?  They looked at me like I was nuts.

Gee, I wonder how that A/C replacement will go!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #157 on: April 23, 2015, 12:25:00 PM »
I once put an AC unit on one card (cash reward, ~$55) then transferred most of the balance to another for a 1% fee ($45 or so) and took 18 months to pay it off at 0% while plowing money into TSP and IRAs... worked pretty well for me. Springy debt cushion > emergency fund.
Of course, even with a high-700s score I don't get offers like that lately. I think they've figured out I'm bad for business.

That's not what most people do when they pay for an emergency with a credit card, and you know it. :p
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MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #158 on: April 23, 2015, 01:08:51 PM »

I consulted my weed costs authority for you and apparently "good stuff" (ie what middle aged people who still smoke would get, not high school kids) is $60 for an 1/8 ounce (3.5 grams). That's about 3 joints depending on how you roll them (with tobacco and how much, etc). Prices go down if you buy in bulk, like you know Costco style, or buy the shitty stuff.

Price varies by where you are and who you know, and of course, what quality you are buying. For an eighth to be 3 joints, they must be some massive joints. I know some heavy smokers with high tolerance and they say that a good quality eight that they buy for $50 lasts them an entire week. For them, that means that they are smoking multiple bowls each night after work. Rolling joints in their experience is a complete waste of money. Instead they recommend getting a one-hitter or packing a small bowl. The only times that they pack a full bowl is if they are toking with friends and are going to be passing it around.

That said, the future of weed is going to be wax and oil concentrates. I know a few people that will buy a gram of wax for maybe $40-50, and it can last them a month, in which they are getting a pretty good high each month. This reduces their cost significantly and as they use a vape pen, it is easier on their throat.

MgoSam apparently knows way more about this that I do! Maybe he said it was 5 joints depending on the roll? Either way, costs can add up quickly!

Just doin' my job! That said, it is high time that marijuana be decriminalized (pun intended).

zephyr911

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #159 on: April 23, 2015, 01:12:28 PM »
That's not what most people do when they pay for an emergency with a credit card, and you know it. :p
I know someone that just refinanced a house (max cashout) to pay off consumer debt, but still ended up with ~15K on cards. Is that what you mean?
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Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #160 on: April 23, 2015, 01:25:18 PM »
Those people are gong to be throwing our their refrigerators every 5 years. It is common for them to go out. Ours went out years ago. I make ice the old fashioned way now & we use a pitcher with a water filter.  Most of our friends have had theirs go out too.

Hunny156

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #161 on: April 23, 2015, 01:34:50 PM »
Those people are gong to be throwing our their refrigerators every 5 years. It is common for them to go out. Ours went out years ago. I make ice the old fashioned way now & we use a pitcher with a water filter.  Most of our friends have had theirs go out too.

The fridge came standard with my house, but I could care less about that particular feature.  Ice cube trays take up way less space than all that equipment!  Granted, these days I don't need much freezer space anyhow, but this is one of those things where my Mom was right.  ;)

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #162 on: April 23, 2015, 02:05:21 PM »
It was nice while it lasted but not a necessity. I don't think I will buy a refri with one the next time unless by then they all come with one. It seems like the more features the more to go wrong. Ugh!

Hunny156

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #163 on: April 23, 2015, 03:27:23 PM »
It was nice while it lasted but not a necessity. I don't think I will buy a refri with one the next time unless by then they all come with one. It seems like the more features the more to go wrong. Ugh!

I haven't seen a side by side without one in a long time, especially if it's stainless.  You might have to splurge on those french door fridges, they don't want to clutter the look w/that unit, at least not on the outside.  I want to say some come with a dispenser inside the door, but if you are gonna expend the effort to open the door, how much more effort would it be to pour a glass from a pitcher?

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #164 on: April 24, 2015, 11:00:06 AM »
I've been trying to tell a relative why he should take his retirement account from an "actively managed" portfolio at a brokerage (i.e. high-fees, no benefit) and instead just put it in Vanguard Target Retirement and literally increase his personal SWR by 50% (due to not having fees).

So now he's going to buy the Vanguard fund inside his "actively managed" high-fee portfolio--and pay the brokerage more to buy the fund instead of just getting it all for free at Vanguard.

Candace

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #165 on: April 24, 2015, 11:04:06 AM »
I've been trying to tell a relative why he should take his retirement account from an "actively managed" portfolio at a brokerage (i.e. high-fees, no benefit) and instead just put it in Vanguard Target Retirement and literally increase his personal SWR by 50% (due to not having fees).

So now he's going to buy the Vanguard fund inside his "actively managed" high-fee portfolio--and pay the brokerage more to buy the fund instead of just getting it all for free at Vanguard.
Oh, my goodness, that is painful.

{Face palm}

NumberCruncher

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #166 on: April 24, 2015, 11:11:47 AM »
It was nice while it lasted but not a necessity. I don't think I will buy a refri with one the next time unless by then they all come with one. It seems like the more features the more to go wrong. Ugh!

Here, here.

I'm going to be sad when I'm forced to own a car without an actual, physical key (as opposed to those smart key things that would cost $$ when they broke).

Hunny156

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #167 on: April 24, 2015, 12:42:04 PM »
It was nice while it lasted but not a necessity. I don't think I will buy a refri with one the next time unless by then they all come with one. It seems like the more features the more to go wrong. Ugh!

Here, here.

I'm going to be sad when I'm forced to own a car without an actual, physical key (as opposed to those smart key things that would cost $$ when they broke).

I understand, I was so sad when my no-key car was totaled and I replaced it w/an older, cheaper car with an actual key!  Took a few days to realize I needed it in hand to unlock the car, but we are friends now.  I love that old car and am very proud of her mint condition, while watching all the sad looks I get in the parking lot cause they think I'm poor.  ;)

BuildingFrugalHabits

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #168 on: April 26, 2015, 01:59:19 PM »
I'm so tired of both sides of my family (in-laws, blood relatives) making fun of me for; heating my house with wood, turning off lights/electronics when they're not being used, turning the hot water heater temp down, growing my own fruit and vegetables, canning, hunting and butchering my own meat, flipping items on craigslist and doubleing my money almost every time, fixing our own vehicles, driving a 20 yr old station wagon, cutting my hair every 3 months, throwing food scraps in the woods for critters (circle of life...enter Lion King music), composting, keeping the AC at 78, not going out to dinner, etc etc etc...  At the same time the in-laws don't appear very happy that they're daughter married the person described above, because I don't treat her like a princess and blow money on her...she was aware of my frugality since day 1 and she stayed with me...shove it!

That all sounds great and I think it's to be commended.  Nice work!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #169 on: April 26, 2015, 02:03:06 PM »
I love that old car and am very proud of her mint condition, while watching all the sad looks I get in the parking lot cause they think I'm poor.  ;)

I'd totally rather rock an excellent condition older vehicle than a new luxury car. :)  And I have a lot more respect for people who do that, because it takes more than money (really, just halfway decent credit) to keep an old car running.

I'd love an old Jag at some point.  Even though I know they're just about the ultimate garage queen, I love the lines of the old V-12 Jags - a hood that goes on for miles, a tiny little cabin, and that's it.
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stlbrah

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #170 on: April 26, 2015, 02:32:19 PM »
My sister bought a new camper so big that she needed to trade in the 2012 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited for a brand new Larger SUV to pull it.

They also have to pay to store the camper.

This makes me rage. 50k right there, plus increased money for even worse gas mileage than the old SUV, and expensive storage costs. A while back she mentioned that she didn't take advantage of the employer 401k match, which was 200% of what you put in for up to 10% of salary - best I've ever heard of.

The rest of my family cares too much what people think, so "updates" are always needed and I am not normal for not caring. I am not "living." Yet I am the only one who travels the world and has tried every kind of food and physical activity that I have had a chance to so far.

There was a "well then what do you do?" inquiry for me when I mentioned I got rid of cable a few years ago, lol. They rag on me for not spending time and money at bars a lot too and think I am throwing my life away and being antisocial.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 02:34:52 PM by stlbrah »

Reynold

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #171 on: April 27, 2015, 04:18:44 PM »
But really, not even $2,000 in savings?!? 

I would bet most people don't have that much. I "lent" my brother $4000 last year to keep him out of jail after he made a series of truly stupid decisions (none unsafe to him or others -- he ignored parking tickets until arrested and then needed bond). If he had gone to jail, he would have lost his job and had an even harder time staying solvent. I told a couple of friends about this and when I said "Really? Who doesn't have $4000?" I got blank stares from my friends, who are a college professor and a well-paid landscape architect.

I would bet you are correct; the people we bought our house from when we first got married were retiring and moving to a smaller place, and had recarpeted the house we were buying to put it on the market.  Sears, who installed the carpet, apparently had a lien till it was paid off.  This came up at closing, and we watched them mess around for a couple of hours trying to figure out how they would come up with about $3000 to pay it off and allow the sale.  I think their lawyer ended up "loaning" them the money just to get the closing to happen, since we had a nice check for 20% down ready to pass them once the legalities were cleared up. 

Our real estate agent, by the way, was also puzzled we weren't buying a place based on combining my wife's former income (before moving) and my new income where we moved to.  We preferred making sure we could handle it on one income, that was pretty revolutionary apparently. 

One time at work a couple of employers ago there was a payroll glitch, and paychecks were going to come out a couple of days late.  I was surprised at the number of people for whom this was going to be a disaster, these were office and high tech workers, not minimum wage workers or something. 

LiveLean

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #172 on: April 27, 2015, 05:16:11 PM »
My wife and I take a lot of grief from her parents and her sister/brother-in-law for not being "laidback." Apparently our reluctance to not buy new cars and all of the latest gadgets/upgrades and go out frequently for drinks makes us uptight. No matter that we've done more traveling than any of them and have a bigger stash than all of them combined. Not that we mention this. They actually think we're in financial straits. It's actually a great cover.
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Cinder

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #173 on: April 27, 2015, 07:23:43 PM »
It was nice while it lasted but not a necessity. I don't think I will buy a refri with one the next time unless by then they all come with one. It seems like the more features the more to go wrong. Ugh!

Here, here.

I'm going to be sad when I'm forced to own a car without an actual, physical key (as opposed to those smart key things that would cost $$ when they broke).

I understand, I was so sad when my no-key car was totaled and I replaced it w/an older, cheaper car with an actual key!  Took a few days to realize I needed it in hand to unlock the car, but we are friends now.  I love that old car and am very proud of her mint condition, while watching all the sad looks I get in the parking lot cause they think I'm poor.  ;)

When I got my Prius with keyless entry, I thought 'Wow, this is awesome!  I won't have to take my key out of my pocket!'.  I then got home to my apartment, and realized that I didn't just have my key automatically in hand from pulling it out of my ignition and still had to dig it out anyway to get in. 

Megma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #174 on: April 27, 2015, 07:36:39 PM »
It was nice while it lasted but not a necessity. I don't think I will buy a refri with one the next time unless by then they all come with one. It seems like the more features the more to go wrong. Ugh!

Here, here.

I'm going to be sad when I'm forced to own a car without an actual, physical key (as opposed to those smart key things that would cost $$ when they broke).

I understand, I was so sad when my no-key car was totaled and I replaced it w/an older, cheaper car with an actual key!  Took a few days to realize I needed it in hand to unlock the car, but we are friends now.  I love that old car and am very proud of her mint condition, while watching all the sad looks I get in the parking lot cause they think I'm poor.  ;)

When I got my Prius with keyless entry, I thought 'Wow, this is awesome!  I won't have to take my key out of my pocket!'.  I then got home to my apartment, and realized that I didn't just have my key automatically in hand from pulling it out of my ignition and still had to dig it out anyway to get in.

I keep the Prius key and the house key separate, Prius keys just stay in my purse all the time. Occasionally I will hop out of the car with my purse while bf is driving and it's running, it gets angry and beeps at me but I love the smart key, impossible to lock I'm the car, because the car doesn't lock if the key is inside.
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paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #175 on: April 28, 2015, 05:09:07 AM »
I've been trying to tell a relative why he should take his retirement account from an "actively managed" portfolio at a brokerage (i.e. high-fees, no benefit) and instead just put it in Vanguard Target Retirement and literally increase his personal SWR by 50% (due to not having fees).

So now he's going to buy the Vanguard fund inside his "actively managed" high-fee portfolio--and pay the brokerage more to buy the fund instead of just getting it all for free at Vanguard.

A few years back, I'm at my father's funeral service and run into a cousin I have not seen for years. he tells me that he is with our favorite low cost fund company. I tell him that, (like a good stashe) I have a shit ton of cash parked there, and ask exactly what he does?  He then tells me that he is with a small division that discretely handles clients with very large portfolios. IIRC, he said there was a 2 million buy-in to get started. That part was interesting, but the amazing part was that he claimed that they have several high profile investing gurus, and high profile brokers in the program. Unfortunately, he couldn't give names, but he said that are either household names, or would be familiar to anybody who follows finance.
 
It's funny to think that the same hucksters who are selling their books, or stupid ideas like buying gold, since the economy will collapse any day now, are the ones that secretly invest in safe, well proven venues. The flip side of this coin is that many, if not a majority of the population, are like your relative, and convinced that you need an advisor who guesses at where to allocate you funds, and takes a huge portion of your money, since they are the "experts".

Zamboni

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #176 on: April 28, 2015, 06:45:09 AM »
^That's an interesting story.  Not surprising I guess.

I had a student in my class last year who has a large investment firm named after his family. I know he is really the son of that family because a Dean told me so when he saw the guy was in my class. His family has donated enormous sums to our institution. Without the heads up from the Dean, which was in casual conversation over lunch, I wouldn't have guessed because he does nothing to suggest his enormous family wealth.

Anyway, one day in class I made a comment about just investing my money in low cost Vanguard index funds. I can't remember what the context was as I don't teach Econ or finance; it was more an off the cuff remark. Anyway, this guy broke into a big smile and gave me a positive nod.

Bottom line is the people running the other big investment firms know their practice is to take client money and put it in their own pockets. Basically anyone who studies investment even a little bit knows this.  Not surprised that our favorite firm has a long list of famous financial names in its customer base.

Pigeon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #177 on: April 28, 2015, 06:56:34 AM »
My family is welcome to joke about our frugal ways all they want.  I just smile and nod.  It matters not a bit to me that their priorities are different than mine, so long as they aren't asking for loans, and they are not.

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #178 on: April 28, 2015, 07:21:53 AM »
I've been trying to tell a relative why he should take his retirement account from an "actively managed" portfolio at a brokerage (i.e. high-fees, no benefit) and instead just put it in Vanguard Target Retirement and literally increase his personal SWR by 50% (due to not having fees).

So now he's going to buy the Vanguard fund inside his "actively managed" high-fee portfolio--and pay the brokerage more to buy the fund instead of just getting it all for free at Vanguard.

A few years back, I'm at my father's funeral service and run into a cousin I have not seen for years. he tells me that he is with our favorite low cost fund company. I tell him that, (like a good stashe) I have a shit ton of cash parked there, and ask exactly what he does?  He then tells me that he is with a small division that discretely handles clients with very large portfolios. IIRC, he said there was a 2 million buy-in to get started. That part was interesting, but the amazing part was that he claimed that they have several high profile investing gurus, and high profile brokers in the program. Unfortunately, he couldn't give names, but he said that are either household names, or would be familiar to anybody who follows finance.
 
It's funny to think that the same hucksters who are selling their books, or stupid ideas like buying gold, since the economy will collapse any day now, are the ones that secretly invest in safe, well proven venues. The flip side of this coin is that many, if not a majority of the population, are like your relative, and convinced that you need an advisor who guesses at where to allocate you funds, and takes a huge portion of your money, since they are the "experts".

This isn't the first story along these lines that I've heard. Another was that all the salesmen (i.e. brokers and advisors) at the brokerages would put their client's funds in the high-fee actively managed funds, but then keep their personal money at Vanguard. They knew better than to buy what they were selling.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #179 on: April 28, 2015, 08:09:13 AM »
This isn't the first story along these lines that I've heard. Another was that all the salesmen (i.e. brokers and advisors) at the brokerages would put their client's funds in the high-fee actively managed funds, but then keep their personal money at Vanguard. They knew better than to buy what they were selling.

Not all of them. In an interesting juxtoposition of off- and on-topic, I have a relative who works at a high-profile financial services company, the kind with sales loads and insane management fees, the whole bit. She has repeatedly defended spending 5-10% of her (not all that high) gross income on their whole life product. In her mid-twenties with no health issues.

Cookie78

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #180 on: April 28, 2015, 08:51:58 AM »
This isn't the first story along these lines that I've heard. Another was that all the salesmen (i.e. brokers and advisors) at the brokerages would put their client's funds in the high-fee actively managed funds, but then keep their personal money at Vanguard. They knew better than to buy what they were selling.

Not all of them. In an interesting juxtoposition of off- and on-topic, I have a relative who works at a high-profile financial services company, the kind with sales loads and insane management fees, the whole bit. She has repeatedly defended spending 5-10% of her (not all that high) gross income on their whole life product. In her mid-twenties with no health issues.

I've been following this thread with great interest and nothing to contribute. But this reminded me that I have a cousin who has this exact same issue! Her and her husband tried to sign me up too, years ago before I knew anything. But it all seemed too high pressure and limited and sketchy information that didn't quite add up to me, even with my limited knowledge at the time.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #181 on: April 28, 2015, 11:36:04 AM »
My parents.  60 and 64 years old, have rented for nearly 20 years (since losing our house back in the mid-90s), and despite having a below-market rent and being empty nesters for over a decade, they have credit card debt and no savings.  Dad was laid off last year and his job search was wholly unsuccessful so he's essentially retired.  As a result, mom was going to retire at 65 and is now thinking it will be 70.  They have fairly large whole life policies on themselves but no long term care insurance.   It's a good thing there's Social Security and Medicare at some point because they're going to need it. 

There are a lot of little things that all pile up.  Mom's work is exactly 1 mile from their home but rather than walking, she drives to her assigned satellite parking lot (which she has to pay for!) and takes a shuttle bus from the parking lot to her office.   They each have a leased car even though now with dad essentially retired, they could easily be a one car household.  They belong to a gym that they go to maybe once a week.  They insist on paying for our kids' ballet classes and swim lessons.   For Easter they "only" spent $60-70 per grandkid (plus another $50 for me and DH).  We never see my mother where she DOESN'T give us something that she saw at the store that she thought we'd like (usually we wouldn't and then have to get rid of it).  They were tired of UVerse so they switched to a cable company and doubled the cost of TV/Internet/phone - but they get 300-something channels!   She stresses over money constantly now that they're down to one income, but she won't stop spending.  I think they figure that you can't teach an old dog new tricks and there's no point to doing anything different at their ages. 

They're going to have a rude awakening when the car leases are up or when their (very elderly) landlord dies and the heirs sell off all the rental properties, including the house that they rent.  I don't know what they'll do.

hernandz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #182 on: April 28, 2015, 02:00:26 PM »
A while back she mentioned that she didn't take advantage of the employer 401k match, which was 200% of what you put in for up to 10% of salary - best I've ever heard of.

What company?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #183 on: April 28, 2015, 06:39:18 PM »
Oh, I have some stories!

My dear sister and I do not see eye to eye at all! She doesn't understand why I don't get brand name purses like Gucci or Prada. I typically use a simple bag I bought in Peru some time ago if anything. I just don't care about purses. It is truly shocking for her.

Shocking for me is that she tried to get me to buy $90 mascara from her. "It works out to only $30 a month on quality mascara! That's nothing!"   My mom ended up buying me the mascara (she is her own case but not as bad) though I did not request it. It doesn't even stay on well. She also spends about $1,800 a year on botox.

Kris

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #184 on: April 28, 2015, 09:11:44 PM »
Oh, I have some stories!

My dear sister and I do not see eye to eye at all! She doesn't understand why I don't get brand name purses like Gucci or Prada. I typically use a simple bag I bought in Peru some time ago if anything. I just don't care about purses. It is truly shocking for her.

Shocking for me is that she tried to get me to buy $90 mascara from her. "It works out to only $30 a month on quality mascara! That's nothing!"   My mom ended up buying me the mascara (she is her own case but not as bad) though I did not request it. It doesn't even stay on well. She also spends about $1,800 a year on botox.

Re the mascara: it's funny how some people really have it ingrained in them that if something is crazy expensive, it has to be awesome.  I have had many experiences of trying something of "superior" price/quality that was absolutely overrated. 
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #185 on: April 29, 2015, 09:40:33 AM »
Oh, I have some stories!

My dear sister and I do not see eye to eye at all! She doesn't understand why I don't get brand name purses like Gucci or Prada. I typically use a simple bag I bought in Peru some time ago if anything. I just don't care about purses. It is truly shocking for her.

Shocking for me is that she tried to get me to buy $90 mascara from her. "It works out to only $30 a month on quality mascara! That's nothing!"   My mom ended up buying me the mascara (she is her own case but not as bad) though I did not request it. It doesn't even stay on well. She also spends about $1,800 a year on botox.

Re the mascara: it's funny how some people really have it ingrained in them that if something is crazy expensive, it has to be awesome.  I have had many experiences of trying something of "superior" price/quality that was absolutely overrated.

Wine is a perfectly good example of this as well. And the concept isn't random, it's been in the interests of corporations to sell higher priced products.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #186 on: April 29, 2015, 09:42:34 AM »

My dear sister and I do not see eye to eye at all! She doesn't understand why I don't get brand name purses like Gucci or Prada. I typically use a simple bag I bought in Peru some time ago if anything. I just don't care about purses. It is truly shocking for her.

Hmm, buy an expensive designer bag just so people might think you're special cause you forked over a ton of cash (or more likely a credit card), or a bag that VERY few people in the continent have and might come with a cool story or bring back memories of your trip there....tough call?

iris lily

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #187 on: April 29, 2015, 09:48:38 AM »
It was nice while it lasted but not a necessity. I don't think I will buy a refri with one the next time unless by then they all come with one. It seems like the more features the more to go wrong. Ugh!
this is exactly what my dad said about cars.

AH013

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #188 on: April 29, 2015, 10:21:25 AM »
Oh, I have some stories!

My dear sister and I do not see eye to eye at all! She doesn't understand why I don't get brand name purses like Gucci or Prada. I typically use a simple bag I bought in Peru some time ago if anything. I just don't care about purses. It is truly shocking for her.

Shocking for me is that she tried to get me to buy $90 mascara from her. "It works out to only $30 a month on quality mascara! That's nothing!"   My mom ended up buying me the mascara (she is her own case but not as bad) though I did not request it. It doesn't even stay on well. She also spends about $1,800 a year on botox.

Re the mascara: it's funny how some people really have it ingrained in them that if something is crazy expensive, it has to be awesome.  I have had many experiences of trying something of "superior" price/quality that was absolutely overrated.

Wine is a perfectly good example of this as well. And the concept isn't random, it's been in the interests of corporations to sell higher priced products.

This has been going on long before Thorstein Veblen noticed it over 115 years ago.  If you charge the most for a product relative to your competitors, it matters not whether the product is actually a higher quality product, just that it is the most expensive good in that category and thus appears exclusive and results in conspicuous consumption from status seeking consumers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good


Logic_Lady

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #189 on: April 29, 2015, 11:27:15 AM »
I have always thought of my parents as pretty frugal. Growing up, they made me save a certain percentage of my allowance. They taught me to always pay off a credit card in full every month. They didn't waste money on designer clothes or huge TVs. They bought only used cars, with cash.

So when I recently sat down to talk to them about their retirement plans, I got a big shock. The first question I asked was what their yearly expenses are, since that determines how much money they will need. My mom's response?

"I don't know."

I stared at her in total shock! How is that even possible? My mom manages the family's finances. She keeps track of bills and pays them on time. The vast majority of expenses are made through checks, credit cards or bank transfers--all easily trackable.  I tried again.

"Well, how much do you guys spend each month?"

"Everything your dad makes," she replies.

WTF? This isn't even true, since I know they save money in their IRAs. I pointed this out and I guess she is including IRA contributions in the spending. I tried to encourage her to keep track of expenses, told her about Mint, but she just "didn't want to think about it."

They are also now spending $20K on landscaping. Admittedly this is not actually a waste of money--it will add to the value of the house and the new landscaping plan will save water. But they will only get that money back when they actually sell the house. I have no idea where they are getting the money for the landscaping from.

I am still totally astonished as I write this. I always thought of my parents as so responsible! The only saving grace is that at least they don't spend more than my dad makes. Based on the rough numbers she gave me, between my dad's pension, SS, the soon-to-be-paid-off house and yearly max IRA contributions they will be OK by traditional retirement age--IF they keep expenses to a reasonable level. But how can they keep expenses to a reasonable level if they don't know how much they spend??? Not to mention my dad has health problems. I am very concerned about what will happen if he is unable to work.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #190 on: April 29, 2015, 01:17:45 PM »
Oh, I have some stories!

My dear sister and I do not see eye to eye at all! She doesn't understand why I don't get brand name purses like Gucci or Prada. I typically use a simple bag I bought in Peru some time ago if anything. I just don't care about purses. It is truly shocking for her.

Shocking for me is that she tried to get me to buy $90 mascara from her. "It works out to only $30 a month on quality mascara! That's nothing!"   My mom ended up buying me the mascara (she is her own case but not as bad) though I did not request it. It doesn't even stay on well. She also spends about $1,800 a year on botox.

Re the mascara: it's funny how some people really have it ingrained in them that if something is crazy expensive, it has to be awesome.  I have had many experiences of trying something of "superior" price/quality that was absolutely overrated.

Wine is a perfectly good example of this as well. And the concept isn't random, it's been in the interests of corporations to sell higher priced products.

This has been going on long before Thorstein Veblen noticed it over 115 years ago.  If you charge the most for a product relative to your competitors, it matters not whether the product is actually a higher quality product, just that it is the most expensive good in that category and thus appears exclusive and results in conspicuous consumption from status seeking consumers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

Right, I know all that.  I'm just still surprised that so many people literally can consume two products of radically different prices and can't actually distinguish that the quality of the more expensive one is actually not better than the other one. 
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #191 on: April 29, 2015, 02:38:20 PM »
Right, I know all that.  I'm just still surprised that so many people literally can consume two products of radically different prices and can't actually distinguish that the quality of the more expensive one is actually not better than the other one.

That's how companies get you to spend more money on brand name than generic. Most of the time, there's no difference.

LiveLean

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #192 on: April 29, 2015, 05:02:57 PM »
I love how Costco often copies the exact ingredients of many food and beverage products it sells under its Kirkland Signature brand for a fraction of the price.

Living lean at www.tolivelean.com

Kris

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #193 on: April 29, 2015, 05:06:10 PM »
I love how Costco often copies the exact ingredients of many food and beverage products it sells under its Kirkland Signature brand for a fraction of the price.

Yeah, that's how I learned to love the Costco.
"Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation."   - David St. Hubins, This is Spinal Tap

zsmith

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #194 on: April 29, 2015, 05:58:30 PM »
After finding out we cut cable my FIL made the comment "Got rid of cable. Why are you being so cheap? You need to live a little."

Somehow he considers sitting around watching cable living.

Ha my dad said the same thing.

We are expecting a baby and living in a one-bedroom condo, where we live for very cheap (granted it's still a bit underwater, but all the more reason to stay). My inlaws actually offered to buy/rent another place so we could have more space, and let us know we could rent it from them or who knows just live there. We told them thanks, but no thanks. If we wanted more space, we would find a place with more space, but we like our one bedroom condo for now.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #195 on: April 29, 2015, 06:12:57 PM »
We are expecting a baby and living in a one-bedroom condo...

A BABY!  Wow.  You totally need a 6 bedroom house in the suburbs (at least 3500 square feet), so you have room to grow, and at least a 3 car garage that will fit the SUV you absolutely have to buy to keep a baby safe!  *nodnod*  You know, you can deduct mortgage interest on your taxes!  *nodnod*

*sigh*

I've been fighting the "Why don't you buy a house now?" questions from my dad for about a decade, give or take.  He's still of the "Housing is a wise investment and besides you can always sell it for more than you paid so of course it's wise to buy a house as soon as possible" school of thought.  Usually then pointing out the interest deduction as well, as though this makes an otherwise unwise decision wise.

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Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #196 on: April 29, 2015, 06:50:09 PM »
After finding out we cut cable my FIL made the comment "Got rid of cable. Why are you being so cheap? You need to live a little."

Somehow he considers sitting around watching cable living.

Ha my dad said the same thing.

We are expecting a baby and living in a one-bedroom condo, where we live for very cheap (granted it's still a bit underwater, but all the more reason to stay). My inlaws actually offered to buy/rent another place so we could have more space, and let us know we could rent it from them or who knows just live there. We told them thanks, but no thanks. If we wanted more space, we would find a place with more space, but we like our one bedroom condo for now.
Living in a small dwelling is a key strategy of mine to keep friends and family visits to a reasonable minimum. The savings are just icing on the cake.

bzzzt

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #197 on: April 29, 2015, 08:18:09 PM »
A BABY!  Wow..

I've been fighting the "Why don't you buy a house now?" questions from my dad for about a decade, give or take.  He's still of the "Housing is a wise investment and besides you can always sell it for more than you paid so of course it's wise to buy a house as soon as possible" school of thought.  Usually then pointing out the interest deduction as well, as though this makes an otherwise unwise decision wise.

Between buying a house and having a baby in the last two years, I've realized that most people have pretty close to zero comprehension on taxes or interest.

"You'll get a lot back on your taxes due to the mortgage interest", "You'll get a ton back now that you have a baby!", etc.

Hey dummies, the reason you get lots of money back is because you have too much withheld in the first place! There's nothing to return if you don't give them too much to begin with! As an older friend once said to me when I asked him why he didn't have a mortgage when he could write off the interest: "Why would I want to give the bank $100 just to get $20 back from Uncle Sam?"

Syonyk

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #198 on: April 29, 2015, 08:28:01 PM »
"Why would I want to give the bank $100 just to get $20 back from Uncle Sam?"

Well, that's why you pay it on a rewards card!  Duh!  Spend your way to prosperity!  Or... um.  Something.  *sigh*

I've run into that a lot as well.  Most people were horrified when I mentioned that I owed around $7k in taxes this year.  I would have been happier having actually gotten stuff right on (my wife's income wasn't taxed as though we were both working), but I'd far rather owe money than give the government an interest free loan.

Another thing I've gotten (actually, also from my dad) is "You can buy that as a business expense and write it off on taxes!"  Same thing... spending $1000 I don't need to spend to save $300 is a bit silly...

I'm fairly certain some people don't understand the difference between tax deductions and tax credits.
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Geostache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #199 on: April 30, 2015, 07:35:52 AM »
The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."

Sigh
. I'm afraid if I don't tell her something specific to get me, I'm going to wind up with more crap that is going to go directly to the donate pile. But there is literally nothing that I want or need for myself. And I don't think telling her to get me some toothbrush head replacements would go over very well.