Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 636059 times)

Making Cookies

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1450 on: June 01, 2016, 01:07:45 PM »
I actually thought that MgoSam meant that if you, Merula, were drunk and crashed your car into a tree, the insurance company would not pay you for the value of your car. Nothing to do with personal injury or 3rd parties.

If I have collision coverage, it doesn't matter how my car is damaged (other than excluded causes of loss like intentional damage), my insurance will pay for it. If I don't have collision coverage, then you're right, my insurance won't pay for my car's damage, but they wouldn't no matter what happened.

Being drunk doesn't matter... in the US.

Foreign countries are a different matter altogether. I once heard about a loss in a majority-Muslim country where a guy was entertaining business clients with alcohol, and then drove home. Drunk. Ended up killing two people and seriously injuring another. Alcohol was legal to consume in this country, but the standard auto insurance had an alcohol-related acts exclusion because of the overall view of alcohol in the local culture. The loss ended up being covered by the employer's umbrella policy (worldwide coverage territory for commercial umbrellas), but the payout was only low six-figures. (I say only because a similar loss in the US would be at least seven if not more.)

Wow, really? There's a standard clause in insurance policies here that states if you are breaking the law when your car is damaged you're SOL when it comes to claiming. Drunk driving is illegal, hence no payout. Same with deliberate destruction of property - no money for you.

Would be an easy way to get money out of a company without worrying about an insurance fraud investigation - get drunk, crash into a tree, blame it on the alcohol.

Thanks Primm, and yeah I haven't looked that closely at my collision insurance to see if it covers me crashing my car while drunk because I don't get drunk and if I do, I certainly don't drive, but I know a few people that have had family members do so and they weren't able to collect anything. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine insurance companies paying up during such an illegal act.

Thanks for the info. My teen and I were talking about this very topic last night after viewing YouTube videos where people were doing stupid / reckless things with motorcycles/cars/trucks.

When the video dude wipes out while doing something stupid and takes out a few innocent cars - who pays?

Insurance company or do they come after him after the fact?

Primm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1451 on: June 01, 2016, 07:53:42 PM »
Thanks for the info. My teen and I were talking about this very topic last night after viewing YouTube videos where people were doing stupid / reckless things with motorcycles/cars/trucks.

When the video dude wipes out while doing something stupid and takes out a few innocent cars - who pays?

Insurance company or do they come after him after the fact?

My understanding of how it happens here (which must be true because interwebz) is that the insurance company would pay out damage to everyone's vehicle bar the driver at fault, and then go after the driver at fault.

There was a big kerfuffle in my state several years ago because it became public knowledge that if a driver were at fault in a crash, their personal injury insurance would not cover them! Fortunately there was no particular harm because we have a public health system which covers them for no cost, but it still caused a stir and has been rectified. And that wasn't even if someone was doing something illegal, simply lost control of their own car and crashed into a pole for example.

barbaz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1452 on: June 02, 2016, 05:06:58 AM »
My understanding of how it happens here (which must be true because interwebz) is that the insurance company would pay out damage to everyone's vehicle bar the driver at fault, and then go after the driver at fault.
What do you mean by "the insurance company"? If there are two parties involved (eg, driver at fault and innocent driver), there are potentially two different insurance companies.


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1453 on: June 02, 2016, 09:20:57 AM »
My understanding of how it happens here (which must be true because interwebz) is that the insurance company would pay out damage to everyone's vehicle bar the driver at fault, and then go after the driver at fault.
What do you mean by "the insurance company"? If there are two parties involved (eg, driver at fault and innocent driver), there are potentially two different insurance companies.

Here in New Mexico, there's more than one kind of insurance. There's liability insurance (for collisions) that covers damage to whomever you hit, and there's comprehensive insurance that covers damage to your vehicle. The law requires everyone to carry a minimum amount of liability insurance to protect other people on the road, but drunks, unlicensed people, and car thieves flout that rule all the time. So people carry a third kind of "uninsured motorist" insurance to cover damage to themselves or their vehicles if the driver that hits them flees the scene (which happened to me once), or has insurance that lapsed, or is driving a stolen vehicle.

In theory, the drunk's insurance policy is supposed to pay for the damages to the other vehicle(s) damaged during the accident. In practice, it doesn't always happen. Farmer's insurance is particularly adept at promising to pay and then sticking the victim with the expense, and most people who like to do road stunts or drive around drunk don't bother with insurance, registration, or sometimes even licensing.

Nobody really seems to come after the drunks and actually punish them financially, because you can't get blood from a stone. You can hand out judgments against them all day long and they won't pay. Suspending their license only means that they continue to drive unlicensed and uninsured because they borrow a vehicle from some enabler or another, or else take it without permission.

The upshot of all of this is: the onus is on you to protect yourself from the drunks and the predators, because the justice system is  completely ineffective from a protection or deterrent perspective. We just had a man who slaughtered an innocent person driving drunk a few years ago arrested yet again for impaired driving. But the way our system works, he's allowed to go around playing boozy bumper cars as much as he wants.
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GPendragon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1454 on: June 03, 2016, 07:37:00 AM »
I went to an event hosted at a no-name golf club the other day, and saw that the yearly membership fee was £200. A few years ago my dad had memberships to 5 of the top golf clubs in the UK. One of them was K Club, and another was Deal, where he's still registered. I can't imagine how much that must have cost. Plus his clubs (at least 3 sets that I've seen, antique wooden ones, etc) and all costs involved in travelling to and playing on the course.

He actually invests, but does it with a financial adviser (who he seems to actively dislike, but I'm never getting into that with him).

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1455 on: June 03, 2016, 08:00:10 AM »
I went to an event hosted at a no-name golf club the other day, and saw that the yearly membership fee was £200. A few years ago my dad had memberships to 5 of the top golf clubs in the UK. One of them was K Club, and another was Deal, where he's still registered. I can't imagine how much that must have cost. Plus his clubs (at least 3 sets that I've seen, antique wooden ones, etc) and all costs involved in travelling to and playing on the course.

He actually invests, but does it with a financial adviser (who he seems to actively dislike, but I'm never getting into that with him).

Are these places the type that a membership is akin to a yearly pass, or the type that you pay the fee and then still have to pay dues and/or greens fees?

Clubs *might* not be that much. I have about 3 sets right now, I think--I buy them at estate sales and off of craigslist and then either re-sell them or else stick them in a family's vacation home where I might be and want to play golf but not have clubs. I always come out way ahead on money, or else get something that I really want (specific bag or wedge or putter).

But I doubt that is the case.

GPendragon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1456 on: June 03, 2016, 08:07:02 AM »
Are these places the type that a membership is akin to a yearly pass, or the type that you pay the fee and then still have to pay dues and/or greens fees?

The one I was in had extra fees, Deal's website (which google has said is called Royal Cinque Port) isn't clear and I don't want to spend too much time on the website right now (I'm at work). K club website has this:

Joining Fee: €20,000

Annual Membership: €7,595 invcludes VAT, GUI Levies & Insurance

I had no idea it would be that much. This is insane.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1457 on: June 03, 2016, 08:37:21 AM »
Are these places the type that a membership is akin to a yearly pass, or the type that you pay the fee and then still have to pay dues and/or greens fees?

The one I was in had extra fees, Deal's website (which google has said is called Royal Cinque Port) isn't clear and I don't want to spend too much time on the website right now (I'm at work). K club website has this:

Joining Fee: €20,000

Annual Membership: €7,595 invcludes VAT, GUI Levies & Insurance

I had no idea it would be that much. This is insane.

It can be insane. There are clubs around here that it is $1,500 or so annually, and then thats it--all the free golf you want. Pretty decent deal. Then there are public courses that are between $400 and $2000 a year for the pass. Then there are the private clubs, like the one I caddied at, that are $80,000* initiation fee, $1,500 a month dues (or more), and greens fees of about $50, and caddy fees of $35 to $70. Those clubs are insane.

*The $80,000 is at least 75% equitable, and that is common. They often have non-equitable options for about $25k.

All that being said, sometimes for some people it is worth it. We call those people the 1%. Or .5% more likely.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1458 on: June 04, 2016, 01:11:38 AM »
Are these places the type that a membership is akin to a yearly pass, or the type that you pay the fee and then still have to pay dues and/or greens fees?

The one I was in had extra fees, Deal's website (which google has said is called Royal Cinque Port) isn't clear and I don't want to spend too much time on the website right now (I'm at work). K club website has this:

Joining Fee: €20,000

Annual Membership: €7,595 invcludes VAT, GUI Levies & Insurance

I had no idea it would be that much. This is insane.

It can be insane. There are clubs around here that it is $1,500 or so annually, and then thats it--all the free golf you want. Pretty decent deal. Then there are public courses that are between $400 and $2000 a year for the pass. Then there are the private clubs, like the one I caddied at, that are $80,000* initiation fee, $1,500 a month dues (or more), and greens fees of about $50, and caddy fees of $35 to $70. Those clubs are insane.

*The $80,000 is at least 75% equitable, and that is common. They often have non-equitable options for about $25k.

All that being said, sometimes for some people it is worth it. We call those people the 1%. Or .5% more likely.

When I was studying accounting I found it amusing that country clubs dues were specifically listed as not being allowed for deductions for businesses (I think, this was many years ago).

I wonder how much actual business gets done while golfing? I've heard that being a justification for spending loads on country club dues and green fees. Anyone know if it can be that conducive for business?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1459 on: June 04, 2016, 09:41:17 PM »

When I was studying accounting I found it amusing that country clubs dues were specifically listed as not being allowed for deductions for businesses (I think, this was many years ago).

I wonder how much actual business gets done while golfing? I've heard that being a justification for spending loads on country club dues and green fees. Anyone know if it can be that conducive for business?

The partners at OldJob, a CPA firm, did a LOT of networking and glad handing on the golf course, so I think it was good for business.  The reason country club dues are specifically listed as nondeductible (still a current rule in the US) is because professional organization fees ARE generally deductible.
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MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1460 on: June 06, 2016, 11:23:56 AM »

When I was studying accounting I found it amusing that country clubs dues were specifically listed as not being allowed for deductions for businesses (I think, this was many years ago).

I wonder how much actual business gets done while golfing? I've heard that being a justification for spending loads on country club dues and green fees. Anyone know if it can be that conducive for business?

The partners at OldJob, a CPA firm, did a LOT of networking and glad handing on the golf course, so I think it was good for business.  The reason country club dues are specifically listed as nondeductible (still a current rule in the US) is because professional organization fees ARE generally deductible.

Thanks, I was wondering why. I just figured that it was a rider that a congressman(women) inserted into a bill at the last second...maybe as a 'poison pill.'

Rubic

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1461 on: June 06, 2016, 12:38:46 PM »

When I was studying accounting I found it amusing that country clubs dues were specifically listed as not being allowed for deductions for businesses (I think, this was many years ago).

I wonder how much actual business gets done while golfing? I've heard that being a justification for spending loads on country club dues and green fees. Anyone know if it can be that conducive for business?

The partners at OldJob, a CPA firm, did a LOT of networking and glad handing on the golf course, so I think it was good for business.  The reason country club dues are specifically listed as nondeductible (still a current rule in the US) is because professional organization fees ARE generally deductible.

Thanks, I was wondering why. I just figured that it was a rider that a congressman(women) inserted into a bill at the last second...maybe as a 'poison pill.'

It was due to the Clinton administration's efforts in 1993 to broaden the tax base, which infuriated the supports of Reagan's 1986 tax reform -- probably most fervently by those accustomed to having their country club fees comped by their employer.

;-)



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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1462 on: June 10, 2016, 11:13:50 PM »

When I was studying accounting I found it amusing that country clubs dues were specifically listed as not being allowed for deductions for businesses (I think, this was many years ago).

I wonder how much actual business gets done while golfing? I've heard that being a justification for spending loads on country club dues and green fees. Anyone know if it can be that conducive for business?

The partners at OldJob, a CPA firm, did a LOT of networking and glad handing on the golf course, so I think it was good for business.  The reason country club dues are specifically listed as nondeductible (still a current rule in the US) is because professional organization fees ARE generally deductible.

Thanks, I was wondering why. I just figured that it was a rider that a congressman(women) inserted into a bill at the last second...maybe as a 'poison pill.'

It was due to the Clinton administration's efforts in 1993 to broaden the tax base, which infuriated the supports of Reagan's 1986 tax reform -- probably most fervently by those accustomed to having their country club fees comped by their employer.

;-)

... sigh... you folks know someone's going to take that seriously, don't you?...

The only organizations for which membership dues or donations can be written off as part of a Schedule A itemized tax return (for an individual) are the ones that exist primarily for a charitable purpose. The IRS has a laundry list of activities it considers charitable. These range from education to poverty relief to religion to the promotion of amateur or professional sport. (MLB and the NBA, for example, are 501(c)3 tax exempt organizations, and so was the NFL until very recently). There are certain rules about how they have to be set up: they cannot have owners or shareholders, for example, but that doesn't stop them from having some very higly paid employees or for benefiting some extremely wealthy people or some privately held companies.

Service clubs like Civitan, Kiwanis, and Rotary are set up for a charitable purpose, so they have tax deductible dues, and donations to them are tax deductible. Same goes for the Order of the Royal Purple and plenty of other religious-oriented charitable organizations. If you've got a church that collects regular dues, tithes, or donations those are deductible since the primary purpose of the organization is one of the charitable activities set out by the IRS. By contrast, fraternal organizations that do charitable work as an outgrowth of their primary fraternal activity (like the Shriners, Eastern Star, or pretty much all the Masonic groups) don't have deductible memberhip dues. Nor does your local golf club, kink and fetish club, or private gym.

The IRS does not allow membership dues to private clubs to be written off the way dues for charitable organizations can be, because private clubs exist to benefit the members only. Membership is also voluntary and frequently determined by existing members, such that new members require sponsorship of existing members prior to being accepted. Furthermore, membership is not a condition of employment anywhere or granted automatically to employees of a specific company (the way it is for trade unions, or for members of professions that cannot legally practice without having current state Bar or medical association membership). Private clubs can and do discriminate based on gender, social status, age, race, and pretty much every other attribute you can think of. So people who pay membership dues in private clubs don't get IRS kisses for it at tax time.

Now, for business expenses, it's OK for businesses to write off donations to 501(c)3 charities but not other kinds. So if you run a company and make a donation to Habitat for Halibut, and you get a receipt for it, you can claim that donation as a business expense and use it to reduce tax liability if you have offsetting income. Similarly, you can sponsor a thing-a-thon and claim it as an advertising expense. But when it comes to a thing sometimes used for business entertaining, the IRS will get its pound of flesh if the expenses are anything but "ordinary and necessary". They have to be directly related to the business transaction, and they have to be associated with the business.

Entertainments tied to an individual (the way a golf club membership is), generally have to be reported as taxable income by the individual who receives the benefit from the company, if the individual who has it does not need it to do his or her job and accrues any side benefit from it. It's actually possible to be a Realtor (R), a surgeon, or a minister without golfing.

Whether a company can deduct corporate entertainment expenses is fairly limited these days due to some well publicized excesses involving some defense contractors and other industrial bigwigs who decided to give and receive lavish entertainments and gifts at home and overseas, then declaring their graft as a deduction for tax purposes (and screwing over not just the taxpayers but also their shareholders). Nowadays, if a company owns a set of, say, NHL season tickets used for business entertaining, they frequently have to go game by game when determining which seat was deductible and which isn't. If the president of the company simply uses the tickets for social purposes and tries to write it off as a business expense, it's often anal-probe-audit time for both the company and the person who uses the tickets as in-kind income.

It's true that hanging out socially can be good for building a business relationship and conducting informal negotiation, but that doesn't mean that the recreation is necessary to doing business.
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ender

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1463 on: June 12, 2016, 04:26:12 PM »
My whole family (especially my father) treat me like the village idiot because I never jumped on the "buy a house" bandwagon. 

I have no idea why my family is so gung ho on real estate.

This is pretty easy, kids buying a house is a huge status symbol for parents.

Oh, kid bought a house? They've made it! Social status++  Kid has made it. Kid is successful!

It's just a cultural status symbol which is easily externally recognizable and identifiable. Same with cars, to some extent. Much harder to say "oh my kid has a net worth of $250k by age 30" for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that most of us spend considerably effort to avoid parents prone to caring about the "buy a house" bandwagon from knowing.



Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1464 on: June 12, 2016, 04:57:06 PM »
My whole family (especially my father) treat me like the village idiot because I never jumped on the "buy a house" bandwagon. 

I have no idea why my family is so gung ho on real estate.

This is pretty easy, kids buying a house is a huge status symbol for parents.

Oh, kid bought a house? They've made it! Social status++  Kid has made it. Kid is successful!

It's just a cultural status symbol which is easily externally recognizable and identifiable. Same with cars, to some extent. Much harder to say "oh my kid has a net worth of $250k by age 30" for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that most of us spend considerably effort to avoid parents prone to caring about the "buy a house" bandwagon from knowing.
I work with a guy in his mid-twenties who just bought a house. Now to his credit, he's going to rent rooms and basically live for free on top of building equity.

He is now convinced he is the smartest, best personal finance whizz in town. Getting a FHA mortgage on a 110k property at age 26 is nothing to be particularly proud of, but man is he proud of his accomplishment (and lets the whole building know about it).

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1465 on: June 13, 2016, 08:19:04 AM »
It's just a cultural status symbol which is easily externally recognizable and identifiable. Same with cars, to some extent. Much harder to say "oh my kid has a net worth of $250k by age 30" for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that most of us spend considerably effort to avoid parents prone to caring about the "buy a house" bandwagon from knowing.
I wonder if part of it is the visibility of it.  You can show pictures of the house and/or car, but your kid probably isn't sending you selfies with his IRA statement.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1466 on: June 13, 2016, 08:26:23 AM »
It's just a cultural status symbol which is easily externally recognizable and identifiable. Same with cars, to some extent. Much harder to say "oh my kid has a net worth of $250k by age 30" for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that most of us spend considerably effort to avoid parents prone to caring about the "buy a house" bandwagon from knowing.
I wonder if part of it is the visibility of it.  You can show pictures of the house and/or car, but your kid probably isn't sending you selfies with his IRA statement.

For sure.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1467 on: June 13, 2016, 09:21:56 AM »
It's just a cultural status symbol which is easily externally recognizable and identifiable. Same with cars, to some extent. Much harder to say "oh my kid has a net worth of $250k by age 30" for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that most of us spend considerably effort to avoid parents prone to caring about the "buy a house" bandwagon from knowing.
I wonder if part of it is the visibility of it.  You can show pictures of the house and/or car, but your kid probably isn't sending you selfies with his IRA statement.
Absolutely, but I think ender hit the nail on the head with "easily externally recognizable and identifiable". My brokerage account is worth more than the average house in my home region but even if I did go on Facebook now and posted a screenshot, nobody would have a way of verifying it. For all they know, I might have faked the screenshot(*). A house just seems more real (for lack of a better word), and people think intuitively that it can't be faked. It's nonsense, of course. The house might be (probably is) bought on credit. But that's not how people look at it, intuitively.

(*) By the way, I think that even if I can prove to somebody that my account is real, they would react differently than to a house. I suppose a fancy house is a good way to consume conspicuously, without appearing to be conspicuous on purpose. Whereas posting an account screenshot can only be boasting.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1468 on: June 13, 2016, 12:09:43 PM »
The house thing to me is part of growing up. So you feel more "adult".  Also a forced savings of sort. I have a few Co workers who don't drive or own a house and yet still can't pay their bills on time.  If I had found mmm sooner I think I would of skipped the house and spent my 10 years saving. It's not the mortgage that gets me it's all the extras. The tools, maintenance and time to keep things working and running smoothly. Now I picture selling the house and setting off  into the sunset in an r.v haha

Us2bCool

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1469 on: June 14, 2016, 06:41:05 PM »
The house thing to me is part of growing up. So you feel more "adult".  Also a forced savings of sort. I have a few Co workers who don't drive or own a house and yet still can't pay their bills on time.  If I had found mmm sooner I think I would of skipped the house and spent my 10 years saving. It's not the mortgage that gets me it's all the extras. The tools, maintenance and time to keep things working and running smoothly. Now I picture selling the house and setting off  into the sunset in an r.v haha

Talk about something that needs tools and maintenance :-)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1470 on: June 15, 2016, 07:58:08 AM »
I got one, but I imagine it's a fairly common scenario.

When my now husband and I were engaged, a lot of my female relatives were anxious to see 'the rock'. When I explained that I didn't get an engagement ring because I rarely wear jewelry and think diamonds are a waste of money, most of them waved that off and said that if he really loved me then he would show it by getting the biggest diamond he could afford, even if I said I didn't want one. The fact that he didn't buy one against my wishes meant he didn't really care about me. My SIL in particular was so insistent that I even started to doubt him a little bit, until I remembered how scary my father is and no man would propose marriage after meeting him unless he was serious.

Sadly, I think I lost a fair bit of status in their eyes by not having some bling.

Making Cookies

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1471 on: June 15, 2016, 08:10:59 AM »
Skip the rock.

Horrendous stories about diamond mines and the industry if you care to look for them.

DW is scared she'd lose the rock - as in it would fall out of the setting. Neither of us have worn any rings for years.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1472 on: June 15, 2016, 08:12:26 AM »
I got one, but I imagine it's a fairly common scenario.

When my now husband and I were engaged, a lot of my female relatives were anxious to see 'the rock'. When I explained that I didn't get an engagement ring because I rarely wear jewelry and think diamonds are a waste of money, most of them waved that off and said that if he really loved me then he would show it by getting the biggest diamond he could afford, even if I said I didn't want one. The fact that he didn't buy one against my wishes meant he didn't really care about me. My SIL in particular was so insistent that I even started to doubt him a little bit, until I remembered how scary my father is and no man would propose marriage after meeting him unless he was serious.

Sadly, I think I lost a fair bit of status in their eyes by not having some bling.


Spend $50 on a CZ. 95% of people won't know the difference.

Or don't, and tell them to shove it because you don't value yourself based on what they think of you, but rather what you think of yourself.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:24:18 AM by mtn »

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1473 on: June 15, 2016, 08:14:44 AM »
I got one, but I imagine it's a fairly common scenario.

When my now husband and I were engaged, a lot of my female relatives were anxious to see 'the rock'. When I explained that I didn't get an engagement ring because I rarely wear jewelry and think diamonds are a waste of money, most of them waved that off and said that if he really loved me then he would show it by getting the biggest diamond he could afford, even if I said I didn't want one. The fact that he didn't buy one against my wishes meant he didn't really care about me. My SIL in particular was so insistent that I even started to doubt him a little bit, until I remembered how scary my father is and no man would propose marriage after meeting him unless he was serious.

Sadly, I think I lost a fair bit of status in their eyes by not having some bling.

I'm glad you feel this way. I absolutely hate the diamond notion and if I find someone that I want to marry I hope she agrees. If not, I'll likely bite the bullet and buy her a ring.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1474 on: June 15, 2016, 08:26:02 AM »
I got one, but I imagine it's a fairly common scenario.

When my now husband and I were engaged, a lot of my female relatives were anxious to see 'the rock'. When I explained that I didn't get an engagement ring because I rarely wear jewelry and think diamonds are a waste of money, most of them waved that off and said that if he really loved me then he would show it by getting the biggest diamond he could afford, even if I said I didn't want one. The fact that he didn't buy one against my wishes meant he didn't really care about me. My SIL in particular was so insistent that I even started to doubt him a little bit, until I remembered how scary my father is and no man would propose marriage after meeting him unless he was serious.

Sadly, I think I lost a fair bit of status in their eyes by not having some bling.

Yes to this! 
In my case, it was the husband's relatives that gave him a hard time, I didn't really care either way.

I'd proposed to him, so I think the family pressure from his super traditional family might have influenced him into buying a ring.  But I have a family member that's a jeweler, so DH ended up buying something pretty, wearable for everyday, and that was not expensive (my criteria was he couldn't be upset about the cost if I ever lost it).

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1475 on: June 15, 2016, 09:52:22 AM »
It's the marriage that lasts for life, not the engagement. That's why I've got a nice plain gold wedding ring but we didn't bother with an engagement ring. I've never understood it, really - you flaunt your temporary pre-marital promised state on your finger for life? Or you buy an expensive ring and don't wear it? Seriously, apart from showing off (which I realise is important to some people), what is the point these days??

canuck_24

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1476 on: June 15, 2016, 10:10:27 AM »
Skip the rock.

Horrendous stories about diamond mines and the industry if you care to look for them.

DW is scared she'd lose the rock - as in it would fall out of the setting. Neither of us have worn any rings for years.

Woah.. take it easy there Mybigtoe!  While I'm not denying that there are gruesome stories out there, it is important to keep in mind you can also buy ethically mined diamonds, not all mining is horrendous.  For starters, there are several diamond mines in Canada which have good safety and environmental records.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1477 on: June 15, 2016, 10:15:35 AM »
It's the marriage that lasts for life, not the engagement.

ABSOLUTELY!

There's an amazing couple that hosts the Bible study I go to, they are clearly affluent as they own a remodeling company, own a few rentals and have two more coming to market this year with tenants lined up (bought a dilapated townhouse and gutted it and are working to get it ready for inspection by the end of the month). A few weeks ago his wife showed me her ring and mentioned, "This is an updated from what he gave me when he proposed," and then proudly mentioned, "I got it for $100 a few years ago, when he proposed the ring was maybe $15, but we didn't have much then." I wanted to hug her I loved this story so much.

onlykelsey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1478 on: June 15, 2016, 10:25:30 AM »
It's the marriage that lasts for life, not the engagement. That's why I've got a nice plain gold wedding ring but we didn't bother with an engagement ring. I've never understood it, really - you flaunt your temporary pre-marital promised state on your finger for life? Or you buy an expensive ring and don't wear it? Seriously, apart from showing off (which I realise is important to some people), what is the point these days??

I'm not sure if there's a similar history in the UK, but in the US they've historically been viewed as a bit of a consolation prize to the woman should the man die or leave or dishonor her.  So a high-class very desirable wife would have a bigger ring, as she has a lot to lose if she gets left alone.  Obviously this is more important when virginity/etc is highly valued.  Women have historically been granted the right to keep the ring, even if the man sues for it back.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1479 on: June 15, 2016, 11:18:34 AM »
It's the marriage that lasts for life, not the engagement.

ABSOLUTELY!

There's an amazing couple that hosts the Bible study I go to, they are clearly affluent as they own a remodeling company, own a few rentals and have two more coming to market this year with tenants lined up (bought a dilapated townhouse and gutted it and are working to get it ready for inspection by the end of the month). A few weeks ago his wife showed me her ring and mentioned, "This is an updated from what he gave me when he proposed," and then proudly mentioned, "I got it for $100 a few years ago, when he proposed the ring was maybe $15, but we didn't have much then." I wanted to hug her I loved this story so much.

But that's even crazier! If it's an "updated" ring then it's not an engagement ring, it's just some ring.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1480 on: June 15, 2016, 11:25:10 AM »
It's the marriage that lasts for life, not the engagement.

ABSOLUTELY!

There's an amazing couple that hosts the Bible study I go to, they are clearly affluent as they own a remodeling company, own a few rentals and have two more coming to market this year with tenants lined up (bought a dilapated townhouse and gutted it and are working to get it ready for inspection by the end of the month). A few weeks ago his wife showed me her ring and mentioned, "This is an updated from what he gave me when he proposed," and then proudly mentioned, "I got it for $100 a few years ago, when he proposed the ring was maybe $15, but we didn't have much then." I wanted to hug her I loved this story so much.

But that's even crazier! If it's an "updated" ring then it's not an engagement ring, it's just some ring.

I suppose, I don't know much about rings other than they are shiny and they can be expensive. I may be wrong as to when she said she got the ring (she might have said a few decades instead of a few years, they are a white-haired couple), but I took it as a positive that she didn't get a ring that cost many tens of thousands, but instead picked something that she liked and wouldn't worry about if she lost it.

Slee_stack

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1481 on: June 15, 2016, 01:05:35 PM »
Going to visit Mom this summer.  She's a snowbird.  I don't often see her in the summertime, but she has a bunch of things that need fixing up in her condo up north.

Understandably, she's anxious to know the dates I'm coming up and I told her I'm researching flights now.

As it is, the cheapest flight to the closest airport is about $400.

I could take another airline for which I have a buddy pass and it would cost me nothing, but I would have to go into the next closest airport, adding about 30min each way drive times needed to reach her place.

She responded with 'Ohh $400 isn't that much, that's like $30 or so a month for the year'.  So basically, 120 total mins/miles isn't worth the $400 savings!  I guess the extra time is more valuable than $200/hr.  Hmm.


I wanted to respond with 'Well, yeah $400 certainly isn't much when you're not the one paying for it!' but I was actually stunned by the whole 'monthly cost' justification mindset she automatically trotted out.  Wow!  Gee $30/mo doesn't sound so bad huh?

Anyway, I'll look into other pickup/dropoff options.  She's too old to change anything, but its a little annoying she's so willing to throw my money away.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 01:08:30 PM by Slee_stack »

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1482 on: June 15, 2016, 01:25:30 PM »
For $400 it might be worth it to rent a car, even if you have to pay for parking.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1483 on: June 15, 2016, 01:36:01 PM »
I got one, but I imagine it's a fairly common scenario.

When my now husband and I were engaged, a lot of my female relatives were anxious to see 'the rock'. When I explained that I didn't get an engagement ring because I rarely wear jewelry and think diamonds are a waste of money, most of them waved that off and said that if he really loved me then he would show it by getting the biggest diamond he could afford, even if I said I didn't want one. The fact that he didn't buy one against my wishes meant he didn't really care about me. My SIL in particular was so insistent that I even started to doubt him a little bit, until I remembered how scary my father is and no man would propose marriage after meeting him unless he was serious.

Sadly, I think I lost a fair bit of status in their eyes by not having some bling.

I'm glad you feel this way. I absolutely hate the diamond notion and if I find someone that I want to marry I hope she agrees. If not, I'll likely bite the bullet and buy her a ring.
DW and I talked extensively about this, and she actually talked me out of spending $$$ on a ring. Instead we dropped $$$ on a trip to see her family, a few days in the rain forest, and a few other priceless experiences. We got $35 LOTR costume rings that we love... hehehe
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MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1484 on: June 15, 2016, 01:45:23 PM »
I got one, but I imagine it's a fairly common scenario.

When my now husband and I were engaged, a lot of my female relatives were anxious to see 'the rock'. When I explained that I didn't get an engagement ring because I rarely wear jewelry and think diamonds are a waste of money, most of them waved that off and said that if he really loved me then he would show it by getting the biggest diamond he could afford, even if I said I didn't want one. The fact that he didn't buy one against my wishes meant he didn't really care about me. My SIL in particular was so insistent that I even started to doubt him a little bit, until I remembered how scary my father is and no man would propose marriage after meeting him unless he was serious.

Sadly, I think I lost a fair bit of status in their eyes by not having some bling.

I'm glad you feel this way. I absolutely hate the diamond notion and if I find someone that I want to marry I hope she agrees. If not, I'll likely bite the bullet and buy her a ring.
DW and I talked extensively about this, and she actually talked me out of spending $$$ on a ring. Instead we dropped $$$ on a trip to see her family, a few days in the rain forest, and a few other priceless experiences. We got $35 LOTR costume rings that we love... hehehe

That's awesome! I've read that the concept of a man surprising his gf with a diamond ring proposal was thought up by Madison Ave because they felt that women are more practical with money and so wouldn't spend nearly as much. I don't know if it is true, but I'm glad that your wife talked you away from buying a ring.

Making Cookies

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1485 on: June 16, 2016, 11:04:33 AM »
Skip the rock.

Horrendous stories about diamond mines and the industry if you care to look for them.

DW is scared she'd lose the rock - as in it would fall out of the setting. Neither of us have worn any rings for years.

Woah.. take it easy there Mybigtoe!  While I'm not denying that there are gruesome stories out there, it is important to keep in mind you can also buy ethically mined diamonds, not all mining is horrendous.  For starters, there are several diamond mines in Canada which have good safety and environmental records.

Oh I know there are "good" mines. If you want the rock - go for it. I won't criticize. All I ask of society is some general awareness of the larger world. Make conscious choices. You likely know far more about it than I do. ;)

My statement sounded worse than I intended it to.

Gave my DW a diamond that came off of a family ring that was given to me after a great-grandparent died. Who knows where that rock came from.

DW wore it for a while and then we realized that we just weren't ring people. We figure we got in as cheap as we could b/c we were young and poor still paying for college, with an eye towards the future when we would want a place of our own to buy and to start a family. A $5K ring would just delay all that in our minds.

We just had to buy the band and have the diamond set. I bought a plain gold band for myself which I ruined at work several years later. Never replaced it.

Tradition might have positive intentions but it makes me worry that it is the result of an antique marketing plan for the companies selling us that notion. Sort of like buying china and silver b/c marital tradition dictates that even if the china and silver never gets used.

Warlord1986

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1486 on: June 16, 2016, 01:04:43 PM »
It's the marriage that lasts for life, not the engagement.

ABSOLUTELY!

There's an amazing couple that hosts the Bible study I go to, they are clearly affluent as they own a remodeling company, own a few rentals and have two more coming to market this year with tenants lined up (bought a dilapated townhouse and gutted it and are working to get it ready for inspection by the end of the month). A few weeks ago his wife showed me her ring and mentioned, "This is an updated from what he gave me when he proposed," and then proudly mentioned, "I got it for $100 a few years ago, when he proposed the ring was maybe $15, but we didn't have much then." I wanted to hug her I loved this story so much.

That's a very sweet story. ^.^

I'm not married, but I can think of a dozen ways I'd rather begin a new chapter in life that don't involve dropping a ton of money on a rock. I have nothing against diamonds, hell, I even like them. But I've got Grandmother's jewelry, and I'll inherit my mother's jewelry, and I've got some jewelry of my own (I'm the only girl so I'm pretty spoiled). A pretty ring is not a requisite to marriage. If my future husband got me a tasteful gold band that I could show my mother and that he could slip on my finger at the wedding, that'll be fine.

Then we can spend the money on a down payment for a house, or a trip to Thailand, or something interesting.

economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1487 on: June 16, 2016, 03:07:01 PM »
My family is made for this forum.  My brother makes possibly the worst financial decisions I've ever encountered.  At 18 years old (and still in high school) he decided to marry his gf of 3 weeks (also in hs), who happened to be 6 months pregnant with some else's child.  They got married at the courthouse and she moved into his room at my mom's house.  He then proceeded to not graduate from high school (or get a GED) and they had 2 more children over the next year and a half.  Neither of them can keep a job for more than a few weeks and they don't pay any kind of living expenses to my mom for living in her house (or for her constant babysitting, cooking, groceries, etc).  Last Christmas my mom called me asking if I could "lend" him money to buy Christmas presents for his kids and she gives me a sob story about how he ended up without any money 1 week before Christmas.  Apparently the month prior when he and my SIL were both working at the same time (a flipping miracle in and of itself) he had taken out a payday loan and used the money to buy a flat screen tv, a Playstation 4 (or whatever the newest one was) and bunch of games.  He then proceeded to lose his job (it wasn't his fault, of course) and so he had no way to pay back the loan (they always live paycheck to paycheck and any extra money they have left over goes toward extra cigarettes).  Since he had gone roughly 3-4 weeks without paying back the loan, they had garnished his wife's paycheck and they ended up without any money for presents.   After telling my mom that I absolutely would not give them anything, I made the mistake of trying to apply logic to the situation and I couldn't figure out why he would've gotten a payday loan to buy totally unnecessary things anyway!  My mom's response was "you know how he is."  I then pointed out that his kids at the time were only 1, 2, and a newborn, and that they would be perfectly happy without a bunch of expensive noise-makers.  My mom got very irritated with me about that and said it is important to give children a "good" Christmas.  Ugh!!!
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irishbear99

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1488 on: June 16, 2016, 03:15:13 PM »
After telling my mom that I absolutely would not give them anything, I made the mistake of trying to apply logic to the situation and I couldn't figure out why he would've gotten a payday loan to buy totally unnecessary things anyway!

One of the recurring lessons in my life is that you cannot combat insanity with logic. Seems to be one of life's great paradoxes. Good for you for holding your ground in the face of insanity.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1489 on: June 16, 2016, 03:48:12 PM »
DW and I talked extensively about this, and she actually talked me out of spending $$$ on a ring. Instead we dropped $$$ on a trip to see her family, a few days in the rain forest, and a few other priceless experiences. We got $35 LOTR costume rings that we love... hehehe

I've never had so much nerd respect for another human being. Well done, sir.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1490 on: June 16, 2016, 05:32:19 PM »
DW and I talked extensively about this, and she actually talked me out of spending $$$ on a ring. Instead we dropped $$$ on a trip to see her family, a few days in the rain forest, and a few other priceless experiences. We got $35 LOTR costume rings that we love... hehehe

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accountingteacher

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1491 on: June 16, 2016, 08:08:08 PM »
My family is made for this forum.  My brother makes possibly the worst financial decisions I've ever encountered.  At 18 years old (and still in high school) he decided to marry his gf of 3 weeks (also in hs), who happened to be 6 months pregnant with some else's child.  They got married at the courthouse and she moved into his room at my mom's house.  He then proceeded to not graduate from high school (or get a GED) and they had 2 more children over the next year and a half.  Neither of them can keep a job for more than a few weeks and they don't pay any kind of living expenses to my mom for living in her house (or for her constant babysitting, cooking, groceries, etc).  Last Christmas my mom called me asking if I could "lend" him money to buy Christmas presents for his kids and she gives me a sob story about how he ended up without any money 1 week before Christmas.  Apparently the month prior when he and my SIL were both working at the same time (a flipping miracle in and of itself) he had taken out a payday loan and used the money to buy a flat screen tv, a Playstation 4 (or whatever the newest one was) and bunch of games.  He then proceeded to lose his job (it wasn't his fault, of course) and so he had no way to pay back the loan (they always live paycheck to paycheck and any extra money they have left over goes toward extra cigarettes).  Since he had gone roughly 3-4 weeks without paying back the loan, they had garnished his wife's paycheck and they ended up without any money for presents.   After telling my mom that I absolutely would not give them anything, I made the mistake of trying to apply logic to the situation and I couldn't figure out why he would've gotten a payday loan to buy totally unnecessary things anyway!  My mom's response was "you know how he is."  I then pointed out that his kids at the time were only 1, 2, and a newborn, and that they would be perfectly happy without a bunch of expensive noise-makers.  My mom got very irritated with me about that and said it is important to give children a "good" Christmas.  Ugh!!!

I'm not entirely sure it's your brother that's the real problem.  Sound like he's been enabled to behave like that by you mother.
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Slee_stack

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1492 on: June 16, 2016, 08:22:44 PM »
Last Christmas my mom called me asking if I could "lend" him money to buy Christmas presents for his kids and she gives me a sob story about how he ended up without any money 1 week before Christmas.  Apparently the month prior when he and my SIL were both working at the same time (a flipping miracle in and of itself) he had taken out a payday loan and used the money to buy a flat screen tv, a Playstation 4 (or whatever the newest one was) and bunch of games.  He then proceeded to lose his job (it wasn't his fault, of course) and so he had no way to pay back the loan (they always live paycheck to paycheck and any extra money they have left over goes toward extra cigarettes).  Since he had gone roughly 3-4 weeks without paying back the loan, they had garnished his wife's paycheck and they ended up without any money for presents.   After telling my mom that I absolutely would not give them anything, I made the mistake of trying to apply logic to the situation and I couldn't figure out why he would've gotten a payday loan to buy totally unnecessary things anyway!  My mom's response was "you know how he is."  I then pointed out that his kids at the time were only 1, 2, and a newborn, and that they would be perfectly happy without a bunch of expensive noise-makers.  My mom got very irritated with me about that and said it is important to give children a "good" Christmas.  Ugh!!!
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economista

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1493 on: June 16, 2016, 08:47:02 PM »
My family is made for this forum.  My brother makes possibly the worst financial decisions I've ever encountered.  At 18 years old (and still in high school) he decided to marry his gf of 3 weeks (also in hs), who happened to be 6 months pregnant with some else's child.  They got married at the courthouse and she moved into his room at my mom's house.  He then proceeded to not graduate from high school (or get a GED) and they had 2 more children over the next year and a half.  Neither of them can keep a job for more than a few weeks and they don't pay any kind of living expenses to my mom for living in her house (or for her constant babysitting, cooking, groceries, etc).  Last Christmas my mom called me asking if I could "lend" him money to buy Christmas presents for his kids and she gives me a sob story about how he ended up without any money 1 week before Christmas.  Apparently the month prior when he and my SIL were both working at the same time (a flipping miracle in and of itself) he had taken out a payday loan and used the money to buy a flat screen tv, a Playstation 4 (or whatever the newest one was) and bunch of games.  He then proceeded to lose his job (it wasn't his fault, of course) and so he had no way to pay back the loan (they always live paycheck to paycheck and any extra money they have left over goes toward extra cigarettes).  Since he had gone roughly 3-4 weeks without paying back the loan, they had garnished his wife's paycheck and they ended up without any money for presents.   After telling my mom that I absolutely would not give them anything, I made the mistake of trying to apply logic to the situation and I couldn't figure out why he would've gotten a payday loan to buy totally unnecessary things anyway!  My mom's response was "you know how he is."  I then pointed out that his kids at the time were only 1, 2, and a newborn, and that they would be perfectly happy without a bunch of expensive noise-makers.  My mom got very irritated with me about that and said it is important to give children a "good" Christmas.  Ugh!!!

I'm not entirely sure it's your brother that's the real problem.  Sound like he's been enabled to behave like that by you mother.

True; and she was enabled to behave that way by her parents.  It's a cycle that I am happy I escaped from.  The only reason she has a house at all is because my grandparents bought it for her. 
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Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1494 on: June 17, 2016, 05:39:06 AM »
My family is made for this forum.  My brother makes possibly the worst financial decisions I've ever encountered.  At 18 years old (and still in high school) he decided to marry his gf of 3 weeks (also in hs), who happened to be 6 months pregnant with some else's child.  They got married at the courthouse and she moved into his room at my mom's house.  He then proceeded to not graduate from high school (or get a GED) and they had 2 more children over the next year and a half.  Neither of them can keep a job for more than a few weeks and they don't pay any kind of living expenses to my mom for living in her house (or for her constant babysitting, cooking, groceries, etc).  Last Christmas my mom called me asking if I could "lend" him money to buy Christmas presents for his kids and she gives me a sob story about how he ended up without any money 1 week before Christmas.  Apparently the month prior when he and my SIL were both working at the same time (a flipping miracle in and of itself) he had taken out a payday loan and used the money to buy a flat screen tv, a Playstation 4 (or whatever the newest one was) and bunch of games.  He then proceeded to lose his job (it wasn't his fault, of course) and so he had no way to pay back the loan (they always live paycheck to paycheck and any extra money they have left over goes toward extra cigarettes).  Since he had gone roughly 3-4 weeks without paying back the loan, they had garnished his wife's paycheck and they ended up without any money for presents.   After telling my mom that I absolutely would not give them anything, I made the mistake of trying to apply logic to the situation and I couldn't figure out why he would've gotten a payday loan to buy totally unnecessary things anyway!  My mom's response was "you know how he is."  I then pointed out that his kids at the time were only 1, 2, and a newborn, and that they would be perfectly happy without a bunch of expensive noise-makers.  My mom got very irritated with me about that and said it is important to give children a "good" Christmas.  Ugh!!!

I'm not entirely sure it's your brother that's the real problem.  Sound like he's been enabled to behave like that by you mother.

True; and she was enabled to behave that way by her parents.  It's a cycle that I am happy I escaped from.  The only reason she has a house at all is because my grandparents bought it for her.

Ugh. Those poor kids, growing up with that.

I'll agree with her on one point: I DO think it's important to give children a nice Christmas (if you celebrate, etc). But "nice" includes maybe a few pacifiers and clothing (can be thrift store bought) for the newborn, a few boxes and things to put in boxes for the 1-year-old (developmentally appropriate and they'll love it more than most actual toys), and maybe something like a play kitchen for the toddler (we got one for my daughter at Christmas when she was 1.5 - she loves it, and it was 20$ on kijiji). Add a few (thrifted, or on sale) books and, like, small plastic toys for babies (ALWAYS available in cheap lots on Craigslist, no joke) and you've got a fantastic Christmas for all for under 50$ if you shop right. No one is saying 'neglect the kids', but it is absolutely possible to give kids than age a great experience and make them feel lovedwithout spending money you can't afford.

Once they're older, "you don't ha Christmas presents because daddy spent all his money buying himself a ps4" is likely to not go over quite so well. For obvious reasons.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1495 on: June 17, 2016, 07:33:07 AM »
I'll agree with her on one point: I DO think it's important to give children a nice Christmas.

I also think it's important to give children a nice Christmas. However, I think you can do that without buying a single present. It's all in the way you present it to them, and having lots of nice 'family time' activities to do which are 'special'. Also special food. I agree with you that buying good presents doesn't have to be expensive, but I just don't think "lots of wrapped up things" = nice Christmas, no matter what they are.

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1496 on: June 17, 2016, 07:36:59 AM »
I'll agree with her on one point: I DO think it's important to give children a nice Christmas.

I also think it's important to give children a nice Christmas. However, I think you can do that without buying a single present. It's all in the way you present it to them, and having lots of nice 'family time' activities to do which are 'special'. Also special food. I agree with you that buying good presents doesn't have to be expensive, but I just don't think "lots of wrapped up things" = nice Christmas, no matter what they are.

Oh, fair. But for a family that expressions affection in material ways, not giving presents would = not expressing love for the kids, emotionally. And there are many, many, many ways to express love, and make things special, without spending much. There are even more ways of giving presents people will love without spending much. It just takes effort and willingness and ability to think outside the mall-box, which... is apparently lacking in this situation. No joke, I feel really sorry for those kids, if this is what they're growing up with.

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  • Age: 30
  • Location: Québec City, Canada
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1497 on: June 17, 2016, 07:54:36 AM »
DW and I talked extensively about this, and she actually talked me out of spending $$$ on a ring. Instead we dropped $$$ on a trip to see her family, a few days in the rain forest, and a few other priceless experiences. We got $35 LOTR costume rings that we love... hehehe

I've never had so much nerd respect for another human being. Well done, sir.

+ 1 to this. Someone brings me to the Green Dragon and proposes with an LOTR ring and I'm done, I'm saying yes.

JustJane

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
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  • Posts: 36
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1498 on: June 17, 2016, 09:26:53 AM »
DW and I talked extensively about this, and she actually talked me out of spending $$$ on a ring. Instead we dropped $$$ on a trip to see her family, a few days in the rain forest, and a few other priceless experiences. We got $35 LOTR costume rings that we love... hehehe

I've never had so much nerd respect for another human being. Well done, sir.

+ 1 to this. Someone brings me to the Green Dragon and proposes with an LOTR ring and I'm done, I'm saying yes.
I only know one Green Dragon...are you in Lancaster County?

TravelJunkyQC

  • Bristles
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  • Posts: 416
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Québec City, Canada
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1499 on: June 17, 2016, 09:48:14 AM »
DW and I talked extensively about this, and she actually talked me out of spending $$$ on a ring. Instead we dropped $$$ on a trip to see her family, a few days in the rain forest, and a few other priceless experiences. We got $35 LOTR costume rings that we love... hehehe

I've never had so much nerd respect for another human being. Well done, sir.

+ 1 to this. Someone brings me to the Green Dragon and proposes with an LOTR ring and I'm done, I'm saying yes.
I only know one Green Dragon...are you in Lancaster County?

It's from LOTR... I didn't know there actually WAS one in real life. I must go!