Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 998258 times)

ash7962

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1350 on: May 15, 2016, 11:40:28 AM »
Kaybee, your parents sound like a worse version of mine.  Last year they had a financial crisis (Dad lost 60k due to risky investments, no job at the time), but still had a large enough nest egg that I would have been 100% fine for the rest of my life.  They freaked out so bad that they were asking to move in with me and saying they were going to be eating cat food in 10 years blahblah.  In reality Dad could have gotten a part time job at minimum wage until they could collect social security and they'd live in luxury til the end of time.  Mom talked about how Dad's investing strategy was like a gambling problem (completely true).  Then a few months later Dad was able to get a job that had a high enough status ranking for his ego, and everything snapped back to normal.  They bought a new car (current 60k mile paid off vehicle was sure to need maintenance soon so getting a new car is totally worth it), new engagement rings, Dad starts up with his investing again and Mom turns a blissful blind eye.

Anyway your parents sound like mine, Dad makes bad decisions and freaks out, Mom turns a blind eye.  Also every time I go there Mom is always showing me all the things she bought.  "Look at these new shoes! this new bag! these new tops! I got them all on sale, what a great deal!"  I swear every time I go there she has 2-10 new shirts and idk what she's doing with all of them.

Since I've already been through the "wait til they have a financial crisis and then try to step in and help" phase, I'm going to save you some time and tell you that you likely won't be able to help them.  They won't listen, they won't be willing to change, and they'll moan "woe is me" the entire time.  The only way would be to 100% control their finances.  Soo yeah I have no good advice, but best wishes in dealing with that eventual situation.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1351 on: May 15, 2016, 11:45:26 AM »
They bought a new car (current 60k mile paid off vehicle was sure to need maintenance soon so getting a new car is totally worth it).

Well, *obviously*, doesn't it make more sense to commit to several years of $300-400 payments each month to avoid the occasional $600 repair on a paid off car?  :S  I mean, I'm not great with math but sometimes when I hear the way people explain things I feel like a freaking genius.

Thanks for the kind words/advice. :)
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1352 on: May 15, 2016, 06:53:44 PM »
My parents bought a Chevy Malibu back in January.  After driving it for 3 weeks and 600 miles, they decided it wasn't quite big enough.  They went back to the dealer and traded it in for a Chevy Impala.

The price they paid for those 3 weeks?  $5300.

That is a 23% depreciation on the Malibu over the course of 600 miles.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 06:58:29 PM by kpd905 »
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1353 on: May 16, 2016, 03:33:47 AM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".

Good luck with that. I once talked to a buffalo rancher who said that you can't build a fence and put buffalo inside; what you have to do is take delivery of your buffalo (apparently they typically come by train, using reinforced cars because they can and do ram their heads right through the walls of regular cars), and then let them hang out for a while until you can see where they like to hang out. Once they have chosen a preferred hangout spot, you can then build a fence around that spot and they'll stay there. But if you try to fence them into some area that's convenient to you without regard to their preferences, they will work together to ram through the fence. And then they will resume hanging out at the spot they want to hang out at. It might only be a few yards away, but they want what they want, and they are large enough to insist upon it.

In short, buffalo are awesome.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1354 on: May 16, 2016, 04:22:50 AM »
Now, not all hunters are ethical.  DH and I have gotten into numerous disagreements over the years with people just doing STUPID shit, but even the worst of that was still better then those damn plants

Here's a bad hunter story for you...

When I was growing up a local rancher whose wife worked with my mother owned a small herd of buffalo.  He decided to sell two "hunting" tags to some high-rollers from out of state (its hard to call it hunting when you are stalking a herd of privately-owned, large, slow-moving animals in a fenced pasture but if you call it "hunting" apparently people who fancy themselves as manly men will pay high dollar for the privilege).  Apparently these folks shot their two buffalo and proceeded to cut the heads off for taxidermy and leave the carcasses in field.  As soon as the rancher realized what had happened, he took his tractor out to collect the carcasses and process them.  Considering full-grown buffalo can weigh one ton each, I wouldn't be surprised if the rancher salvaged a ton of meat that the "hunters" were going to let rot in the field.  No wonder buffalo almost went extinct...

The upside for us was that we were able to stock the freezer with lots of delicious, lean buffalo meat for a very reasonable price!  I figure the rancher probably made out pretty well, too, since he got to sell the meat twice. 

Edited to fix typos.

I'm confused... this is usually exactly what happens with this style of paid hunt. The hunters pay for the mount; they don't care about the meat. The rancher gets to sell the animal, and then sell the meat. Did the guy think the hunters were going to field butcher a 2000 pound buffalo and pack it in their carryon? Seems like he had a hard lesson to learn in opening up a side of his business that he had no experience with.

I have good friends who raise and sell these kinds of animals. The hunters that fly in to harvest them don't care about the meat. No one they know has any idea that vast open plains capable of supporting such massive animals even exist in this country. They assume everything looks the way it does between New York and D.C. They literally have no idea how vast and exciting and open this country is, and neither does anyone they know. There's no reason for them to bring back a load of meat; the rancher gets to sell it. It's pretty standard practice, and works out great for all involved with the obvious exception of the game animal.
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1355 on: May 16, 2016, 06:13:33 AM »
Now, not all hunters are ethical.  DH and I have gotten into numerous disagreements over the years with people just doing STUPID shit, but even the worst of that was still better then those damn plants

Here's a bad hunter story for you...

When I was growing up a local rancher whose wife worked with my mother owned a small herd of buffalo.  He decided to sell two "hunting" tags to some high-rollers from out of state (its hard to call it hunting when you are stalking a herd of privately-owned, large, slow-moving animals in a fenced pasture but if you call it "hunting" apparently people who fancy themselves as manly men will pay high dollar for the privilege).  Apparently these folks shot their two buffalo and proceeded to cut the heads off for taxidermy and leave the carcasses in field.  As soon as the rancher realized what had happened, he took his tractor out to collect the carcasses and process them.  Considering full-grown buffalo can weigh one ton each, I wouldn't be surprised if the rancher salvaged a ton of meat that the "hunters" were going to let rot in the field.  No wonder buffalo almost went extinct...

The upside for us was that we were able to stock the freezer with lots of delicious, lean buffalo meat for a very reasonable price!  I figure the rancher probably made out pretty well, too, since he got to sell the meat twice. 

Edited to fix typos.

I'm confused... this is usually exactly what happens with this style of paid hunt. The hunters pay for the mount; they don't care about the meat. The rancher gets to sell the animal, and then sell the meat. Did the guy think the hunters were going to field butcher a 2000 pound buffalo and pack it in their carryon? Seems like he had a hard lesson to learn in opening up a side of his business that he had no experience with.

I have good friends who raise and sell these kinds of animals. The hunters that fly in to harvest them don't care about the meat. No one they know has any idea that vast open plains capable of supporting such massive animals even exist in this country. They assume everything looks the way it does between New York and D.C. They literally have no idea how vast and exciting and open this country is, and neither does anyone they know. There's no reason for them to bring back a load of meat; the rancher gets to sell it. It's pretty standard practice, and works out great for all involved with the obvious exception of the game animal.

Agreed, sport hunters suck imho.  Worst argument we had was with two sport hunters who knowingly trespassed onto private land in CO because that's where the elk herd was that day (not on the ranch they paid 10k to hunt on).  They took a blind pot shot at something they "heard" which happened to be DH who was actively stalking the herd, almost shot him, then they capped off another wild shot and hit a baby in the herd.  I credit DH to this day for not punching the asshole. 

Owner of the land had the guys arrested for trespassing and they literally said "you can't do that we paid person X 10k for an elk, we expect an elk" They were 9 acres onto private land (which is VERY well marked with private property no trespassing signs and completely delineated by a road between the two properties)and had ZERO concept that all the land out there wasn't theirs.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1356 on: May 16, 2016, 11:27:37 AM »
Now, not all hunters are ethical.  DH and I have gotten into numerous disagreements over the years with people just doing STUPID shit, but even the worst of that was still better then those damn plants

Here's a bad hunter story for you...

When I was growing up a local rancher whose wife worked with my mother owned a small herd of buffalo.  He decided to sell two "hunting" tags to some high-rollers from out of state (its hard to call it hunting when you are stalking a herd of privately-owned, large, slow-moving animals in a fenced pasture but if you call it "hunting" apparently people who fancy themselves as manly men will pay high dollar for the privilege).  Apparently these folks shot their two buffalo and proceeded to cut the heads off for taxidermy and leave the carcasses in field.  As soon as the rancher realized what had happened, he took his tractor out to collect the carcasses and process them.  Considering full-grown buffalo can weigh one ton each, I wouldn't be surprised if the rancher salvaged a ton of meat that the "hunters" were going to let rot in the field.  No wonder buffalo almost went extinct...

The upside for us was that we were able to stock the freezer with lots of delicious, lean buffalo meat for a very reasonable price!  I figure the rancher probably made out pretty well, too, since he got to sell the meat twice. 

Edited to fix typos.

I'm confused... this is usually exactly what happens with this style of paid hunt. The hunters pay for the mount; they don't care about the meat. The rancher gets to sell the animal, and then sell the meat. Did the guy think the hunters were going to field butcher a 2000 pound buffalo and pack it in their carryon? Seems like he had a hard lesson to learn in opening up a side of his business that he had no experience with.

I have good friends who raise and sell these kinds of animals. The hunters that fly in to harvest them don't care about the meat. No one they know has any idea that vast open plains capable of supporting such massive animals even exist in this country. They assume everything looks the way it does between New York and D.C. They literally have no idea how vast and exciting and open this country is, and neither does anyone they know. There's no reason for them to bring back a load of meat; the rancher gets to sell it. It's pretty standard practice, and works out great for all involved with the obvious exception of the game animal.

Agreed, sport hunters suck imho.  Worst argument we had was with two sport hunters who knowingly trespassed onto private land in CO because that's where the elk herd was that day (not on the ranch they paid 10k to hunt on).  They took a blind pot shot at something they "heard" which happened to be DH who was actively stalking the herd, almost shot him, then they capped off another wild shot and hit a baby in the herd.  I credit DH to this day for not punching the asshole. 

Owner of the land had the guys arrested for trespassing and they literally said "you can't do that we paid person X 10k for an elk, we expect an elk" They were 9 acres onto private land (which is VERY well marked with private property no trespassing signs and completely delineated by a road between the two properties)and had ZERO concept that all the land out there wasn't theirs.

I wonder how much they ended up getting billed for this? I don't know hunting rules or etiquette, could he press charges for attempted murder or something? Or are there any penalties for the ranch owner that they had paid to hunt on?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1357 on: May 16, 2016, 12:10:23 PM »
I wonder how much they ended up getting billed for this? I don't know hunting rules or etiquette, could he press charges for attempted murder or something? Or are there any penalties for the ranch owner that they had paid to hunt on?
IANAL, but my guess is that you wouldn't be able to pin them with attempted murder (requires intent).  Since they failed to kill him, manslaughter is out as well.  Reckless endangerment, maybe?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1358 on: May 16, 2016, 03:29:50 PM »
My nephew has been living with me since July.  I started charging him rent (28% of 35 hr/week @ $9.00/hr job) back in January.  He just asked me if for his last month (May), I would just let it go and not charge rent.  His reasons were BS, so I said no, he has to pay me the rent for the month.  15 minutes later, he hired Lyft to take him to get his hair cut because it was drizzling out and he couldn't find an umbrella. 

p.s.  It's the 10th of May, and he hasn't paid the May rent yet.

Nephew logic being that he does not have the all the 400$ and will have to wait till next payday so he might as well spend 40$ getting his hair cut cuz it wont cover rent anyway...

Wasn't there a popular song recently where the guy was talking about not having the rent so they might as well go out? I don't recall the names but that line stood out to me after all the MMM reading.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1359 on: May 16, 2016, 05:48:23 PM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".

Good luck with that. I once talked to a buffalo rancher who said that you can't build a fence and put buffalo inside; what you have to do is take delivery of your buffalo (apparently they typically come by train, using reinforced cars because they can and do ram their heads right through the walls of regular cars), and then let them hang out for a while until you can see where they like to hang out. Once they have chosen a preferred hangout spot, you can then build a fence around that spot and they'll stay there. But if you try to fence them into some area that's convenient to you without regard to their preferences, they will work together to ram through the fence. And then they will resume hanging out at the spot they want to hang out at. It might only be a few yards away, but they want what they want, and they are large enough to insist upon it.

In short, buffalo are awesome.

Great story, Daleth.

Also, I'll just leave this here.  (I guess I'm just going to be that person today.)

http://www.livescience.com/32115-bison-vs-buffalo-whats-the-difference.html

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1360 on: May 16, 2016, 07:40:50 PM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".

Good luck with that. I once talked to a buffalo rancher who said that you can't build a fence and put buffalo inside; what you have to do is take delivery of your buffalo (apparently they typically come by train, using reinforced cars because they can and do ram their heads right through the walls of regular cars), and then let them hang out for a while until you can see where they like to hang out. Once they have chosen a preferred hangout spot, you can then build a fence around that spot and they'll stay there. But if you try to fence them into some area that's convenient to you without regard to their preferences, they will work together to ram through the fence. And then they will resume hanging out at the spot they want to hang out at. It might only be a few yards away, but they want what they want, and they are large enough to insist upon it.

In short, buffalo are awesome.

Great story, Daleth.

Also, I'll just leave this here.  (I guess I'm just going to be that person today.)

http://www.livescience.com/32115-bison-vs-buffalo-whats-the-difference.html

Oddly there have been lots of bison in the news lately.

At least one bison has been successfully housebroken:
http://www.wral.com/texas-woman-sells-housebroken-bison-she-let-wander-inside/15707045/

Meanwhile, in Yellowstone, some asshole tourists do something stupid and fuck up the imprinting process, causing the little bison calf to be rejected by the herd:
http://www.argusleader.com/story/news/crime/2016/05/16/rescued-yellowstone-bison-calf-euthanized/84448744/
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1361 on: May 16, 2016, 08:45:14 PM »
My nephew has been living with me since July.  I started charging him rent (28% of 35 hr/week @ $9.00/hr job) back in January.  He just asked me if for his last month (May), I would just let it go and not charge rent.  His reasons were BS, so I said no, he has to pay me the rent for the month.  15 minutes later, he hired Lyft to take him to get his hair cut because it was drizzling out and he couldn't find an umbrella. 

p.s.  It's the 10th of May, and he hasn't paid the May rent yet.

Nephew logic being that he does not have the all the 400$ and will have to wait till next payday so he might as well spend 40$ getting his hair cut cuz it wont cover rent anyway...

Wasn't there a popular song recently where the guy was talking about not having the rent so they might as well go out? I don't recall the names but that line stood out to me after all the MMM reading.

Yes!  I always thought of MMM when this song came on the radio!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTjfMczkOYo

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1362 on: May 17, 2016, 04:06:09 AM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".

Good luck with that. I once talked to a buffalo rancher who said that you can't build a fence and put buffalo inside; what you have to do is take delivery of your buffalo (apparently they typically come by train, using reinforced cars because they can and do ram their heads right through the walls of regular cars), and then let them hang out for a while until you can see where they like to hang out. Once they have chosen a preferred hangout spot, you can then build a fence around that spot and they'll stay there. But if you try to fence them into some area that's convenient to you without regard to their preferences, they will work together to ram through the fence. And then they will resume hanging out at the spot they want to hang out at. It might only be a few yards away, but they want what they want, and they are large enough to insist upon it.

In short, buffalo are awesome.

Great story, Daleth.

Also, I'll just leave this here.  (I guess I'm just going to be that person today.)

http://www.livescience.com/32115-bison-vs-buffalo-whats-the-difference.html

Oddly there have been lots of bison in the news lately.

At least one bison has been successfully housebroken:
http://www.wral.com/texas-woman-sells-housebroken-bison-she-let-wander-inside/15707045/

Meanwhile, in Yellowstone, some asshole tourists do something stupid and fuck up the imprinting process, causing the little bison calf to be rejected by the herd:
http://www.argusleader.com/story/news/crime/2016/05/16/rescued-yellowstone-bison-calf-euthanized/84448744/

I actually suspect the rangers just wanted an excuse to grill out.
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1363 on: May 17, 2016, 09:23:56 AM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".
I don't know if Bison are different from Buffalo, but I know there are hybrid cows/buffalo known as Beefalo that are raised as supposedly domesticated animals. My parents had a neighbors escape and rampage through their property, it didn't seem very tame at all. It was smashing into stone walls and dislodging large rocks, kicking everything it could, and they had to fire multiple tranquilizer darts at it before it calmed down.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 09:27:05 AM by Digital Dogma »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1364 on: May 17, 2016, 09:44:37 AM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".
I don't know if Bison are different from Buffalo, but I know there are hybrid cows/buffalo known as Beefalo that are raised as supposedly domesticated animals. My parents had a neighbors escape and rampage through their property, it didn't seem very tame at all. It was smashing into stone walls and dislodging large rocks, kicking everything it could, and they had to fire multiple tranquilizer darts at it before it calmed down.

But a domesticated bull could do the same thing.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1365 on: May 17, 2016, 09:46:30 AM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".
I don't know if Bison are different from Buffalo, but I know there are hybrid cows/buffalo known as Beefalo that are raised as supposedly domesticated animals. My parents had a neighbors escape and rampage through their property, it didn't seem very tame at all. It was smashing into stone walls and dislodging large rocks, kicking everything it could, and they had to fire multiple tranquilizer darts at it before it calmed down.

In North America, bison and buffalo are both common-name terms for the the American bison (Bison bison). However, on other continents, there are other "buffalos" that are from completely different genera, let alone species (African buffalo [Syncerus caffer], (Asian) water buffalo [Bubalus bubalis], etc.)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1366 on: May 17, 2016, 10:43:05 AM »
They bought a new car (current 60k mile paid off vehicle was sure to need maintenance soon so getting a new car is totally worth it).

Well, *obviously*, doesn't it make more sense to commit to several years of $300-400 payments each month to avoid the occasional $600 repair on a paid off car?  :S  I mean, I'm not great with math but sometimes when I hear the way people explain things I feel like a freaking genius.

Thanks for the kind words/advice. :)

Well, it's not even always just about the real repair costs. So many people wrap up their (consumer) identity in their vehicle. Can't be seen driving an older, yet presentable and reliable vehicle. You might be mistaken for one of the poor people!

We drive two older vehicles, one with huge miles (around 300K) - and some folks even get defensive about their own vehicle choices just b/c we drive these older vehicles. As if we are proving that their new(er) vehicle isn't that necessary. We're not pontificating about the value of used cars, we're just happily driving them.

Maybe it is like the mother in the Meerkat's post who didn't like the son's $20 used suit. It was nice until it was used and then it was unacceptable.

One coworker seems to find justification in their car payment every time I mention a repair or maintenance on our cars.

Time for another timing belt. Costs me parts. ~$150 depending on whether I want to replace cam and crank seals, valve cover gasket and the water pump. Them: yay! my car doesn't need maintenance like that. ~$400 per month payment though... ;)

Fuel pump failure. Cost of part. Them: YAY! I'll trade mine in before (it gets paid off) it ever needs a fuel pump.

One of our cars has never needed a fuel pump in ~300K miles and ~17 years. Other car needed one at ~17 years and fewer miles.

I'm not in this world to dictate what anyone drives (hopefully safely). Just don't complain about the cost when there are cheaper alternatives more in line with a person's income.

Edited: I never like the first five revisions of what I write... Bear with me...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 10:54:07 AM by Jethrosnose »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1367 on: May 17, 2016, 10:45:58 AM »
My parents bought a Chevy Malibu back in January.  After driving it for 3 weeks and 600 miles, they decided it wasn't quite big enough.  They went back to the dealer and traded it in for a Chevy Impala.

The price they paid for those 3 weeks?  $5300.

That is a 23% depreciation on the Malibu over the course of 600 miles.

GAWD - they could have rented a car of their choice cheaper...

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1368 on: May 17, 2016, 10:49:39 AM »
My nephew has been living with me since July.  I started charging him rent (28% of 35 hr/week @ $9.00/hr job) back in January.  He just asked me if for his last month (May), I would just let it go and not charge rent.  His reasons were BS, so I said no, he has to pay me the rent for the month.  15 minutes later, he hired Lyft to take him to get his hair cut because it was drizzling out and he couldn't find an umbrella. 

p.s.  It's the 10th of May, and he hasn't paid the May rent yet.

Nephew logic being that he does not have the all the 400$ and will have to wait till next payday so he might as well spend 40$ getting his hair cut cuz it wont cover rent anyway...

Wasn't there a popular song recently where the guy was talking about not having the rent so they might as well go out? I don't recall the names but that line stood out to me after all the MMM reading.

Yes!  I always thought of MMM when this song came on the radio!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTjfMczkOYo

That's the one!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1369 on: May 17, 2016, 08:56:43 PM »
They bought a new car (current 60k mile paid off vehicle was sure to need maintenance soon so getting a new car is totally worth it).

Well, *obviously*, doesn't it make more sense to commit to several years of $300-400 payments each month to avoid the occasional $600 repair on a paid off car?  :S  I mean, I'm not great with math but sometimes when I hear the way people explain things I feel like a freaking genius.

Thanks for the kind words/advice. :)

Well, it's not even always just about the real repair costs. So many people wrap up their (consumer) identity in their vehicle. Can't be seen driving an older, yet presentable and reliable vehicle. You might be mistaken for one of the poor people!

We drive two older vehicles, one with huge miles (around 300K) - and some folks even get defensive about their own vehicle choices just b/c we drive these older vehicles. As if we are proving that their new(er) vehicle isn't that necessary. We're not pontificating about the value of used cars, we're just happily driving them.

Maybe it is like the mother in the Meerkat's post who didn't like the son's $20 used suit. It was nice until it was used and then it was unacceptable.

One coworker seems to find justification in their car payment every time I mention a repair or maintenance on our cars.

Time for another timing belt. Costs me parts. ~$150 depending on whether I want to replace cam and crank seals, valve cover gasket and the water pump. Them: yay! my car doesn't need maintenance like that. ~$400 per month payment though... ;)

Fuel pump failure. Cost of part. Them: YAY! I'll trade mine in before (it gets paid off) it ever needs a fuel pump.

One of our cars has never needed a fuel pump in ~300K miles and ~17 years. Other car needed one at ~17 years and fewer miles.

I'm not in this world to dictate what anyone drives (hopefully safely). Just don't complain about the cost when there are cheaper alternatives more in line with a person's income.

Edited: I never like the first five revisions of what I write... Bear with me...

Oh I realize there are often other elements at play but this particular example was based on a close friend of mine who explained they "needed to get a new car" because although their car was paid off, the warranty was up.  They upsized to a larger pickup.  We live in the city, her husband is unemployed so he plays "SAHD" and she also has a car to drive to work in.  But she complains she can never do anything fun because they're "poor" since they only have one income at the moment. *facepalm*
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1370 on: May 17, 2016, 10:07:34 PM »
Not a relative, but close friends and I don't think this warrants its own thread....

Close friends are a couple, call them A and B.  A was fired about 4 months ago from her job that I would guess made 35-40k on the high end.  Since then she has gotten offers but refuses to take them because they aren't good enough.  They either aren't in the correct field (video games) or don't pay enough (her bar is apparently 50k).  Her experience is all in sales and she has an associates in a liberal arts field.  HOLY SHIT.

MEANWHILE!  B works 60 hour weeks to cover A's debt, A's rent, A's everything, while A is 'persuing her passions' which are also very competitive and low paid fields that pretty much everybody would want to be in.  She makes close to nothing in her 'passions' but 'deserves' to be happy and 'deserves' to make 50k, and deserves a lot of things that oddly B does not seem to deserve as much as A does.

It makes me so mad to watch B just be a pushover.  They aren't even married, so B could just let A figure her own shit out with no consequences, but has no idea how to say 'no'.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1371 on: May 18, 2016, 09:36:48 AM »
Just found out BIL, who is an awesome person otherwise, buys a huge Starbucks frappacino...
EVERY. WEEKDAY. MORNING.
That's 20+ of them per month, at $7 or so...

$140+ per month on frappacinos.

There are no words.

Not very mustachian, but sounds yummy. Another downside, though, is the calories. Aren't frappucinos something like 500+ calories each?

I was at a client's office, and one of the bookkeepers was mentioning how she is trying to lose weight ahead of her wedding.  She was discussing with another lady how she was exercising more and eating only salad for lunch, but she couldn't drop the last five pounds.  As she is talking, she is sipping at a huge iced frappa-mocha-caramel-latte-something (I'm not a coffee person, can you tell?) from Dunkin-Starbucks, the same thing she had my previous days there.

Me: "If you're really having a hard time with the weight, maybe you could only get that drink once a week?"
Bookkeeper: "What?  But it's coffee!  Coffee doesn't have many calories."
Me: "I think that's just for normal, plain coffee.  I think they put a lot of sugar in those fancy drinks.  Why don't you look it up online?  I'm sure they have the nutrition info somewhere on their website."
Other Lady: "You should follow Herring's advice.  She's a nutrition expert."  [I'm not; I'm an accountant.]
Me: "Huh?"
Other Lady: "Yes, you gave me really good advice a couple years ago!"
Bookkeeper: *looking online*  "OH.  MY.  GOSH.  This has, like, 700 calories!  What the heck?!  I am never getting another one of these!  Look at the sugar and fat!  Where does it all come from?!"
Me: "I think it's all the fancy syrups they use.  Those shops add a lot more sugar to coffee than you would if you made it for yourself."

So, yes, those drinks have a LOT of calories.  Apparently, this knowledge is not as common as one would expect.  For the price and calories, I would rather have an occasional milkshake!
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1372 on: May 18, 2016, 09:44:17 AM »
Just found out BIL, who is an awesome person otherwise, buys a huge Starbucks frappacino...
EVERY. WEEKDAY. MORNING.
That's 20+ of them per month, at $7 or so...

$140+ per month on frappacinos.

There are no words.

Not very mustachian, but sounds yummy. Another downside, though, is the calories. Aren't frappucinos something like 500+ calories each?

I was at a client's office, and one of the bookkeepers was mentioning how she is trying to lose weight ahead of her wedding.  She was discussing with another lady how she was exercising more and eating only salad for lunch, but she couldn't drop the last five pounds.  As she is talking, she is sipping at a huge iced frappa-mocha-caramel-latte-something (I'm not a coffee person, can you tell?) from Dunkin-Starbucks, the same thing she had my previous days there.

Me: "If you're really having a hard time with the weight, maybe you could only get that drink once a week?"
Bookkeeper: "What?  But it's coffee!  Coffee doesn't have many calories."
Me: "I think that's just for normal, plain coffee.  I think they put a lot of sugar in those fancy drinks.  Why don't you look it up online?  I'm sure they have the nutrition info somewhere on their website."
Other Lady: "You should follow Herring's advice.  She's a nutrition expert."  [I'm not; I'm an accountant.]
Me: "Huh?"
Other Lady: "Yes, you gave me really good advice a couple years ago!"
Bookkeeper: *looking online*  "OH.  MY.  GOSH.  This has, like, 700 calories!  What the heck?!  I am never getting another one of these!  Look at the sugar and fat!  Where does it all come from?!"
Me: "I think it's all the fancy syrups they use.  Those shops add a lot more sugar to coffee than you would if you made it for yourself."

So, yes, those drinks have a LOT of calories.  Apparently, this knowledge is not as common as one would expect.  For the price and calories, I would rather have an occasional milkshake!
Lol I had a similar experience at work. Coworker is trying to lose weight, joined a bootcamp type gym and goes 3x/week. But she's gaining weight and she knows her problem is her and her new bf go out to eat quite a bit.

Her: "But I try to get healthy stuff. Like at Applebees I'll get the wonton tacos and fried green beans. I mean I know they're fried but they're green beans so they're kinda healthy"

I looked them up for her. The fried green beans were ~550 calories and ~45 grams of fat, wanton tacos not much better. This was not a meal, this was an after 9pm happy hour thing they did every week (so probably some alcohol too)

Edit for grammar errors
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 11:40:44 AM by AerynLee »

Digital Dogma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1373 on: May 18, 2016, 11:55:15 AM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".
I don't know if Bison are different from Buffalo, but I know there are hybrid cows/buffalo known as Beefalo that are raised as supposedly domesticated animals. My parents had a neighbors escape and rampage through their property, it didn't seem very tame at all. It was smashing into stone walls and dislodging large rocks, kicking everything it could, and they had to fire multiple tranquilizer darts at it before it calmed down.

But a domesticated bull could do the same thing.

To some degree, however the average Beefalo Bull weighs 25% more than the average Bull does (average weight of 2000lb vs 1500lb). Thats a whole lot of momentum they can use in their favor.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1374 on: May 18, 2016, 01:00:14 PM »
Just found out BIL, who is an awesome person otherwise, buys a huge Starbucks frappacino...
EVERY. WEEKDAY. MORNING.
That's 20+ of them per month, at $7 or so...

$140+ per month on frappacinos.

There are no words.

Not very mustachian, but sounds yummy. Another downside, though, is the calories. Aren't frappucinos something like 500+ calories each?

I was at a client's office, and one of the bookkeepers was mentioning how she is trying to lose weight ahead of her wedding.  She was discussing with another lady how she was exercising more and eating only salad for lunch, but she couldn't drop the last five pounds.  As she is talking, she is sipping at a huge iced frappa-mocha-caramel-latte-something (I'm not a coffee person, can you tell?) from Dunkin-Starbucks, the same thing she had my previous days there.

Me: "If you're really having a hard time with the weight, maybe you could only get that drink once a week?"
Bookkeeper: "What?  But it's coffee!  Coffee doesn't have many calories."
Me: "I think that's just for normal, plain coffee.  I think they put a lot of sugar in those fancy drinks.  Why don't you look it up online?  I'm sure they have the nutrition info somewhere on their website."
Other Lady: "You should follow Herring's advice.  She's a nutrition expert."  [I'm not; I'm an accountant.]
Me: "Huh?"
Other Lady: "Yes, you gave me really good advice a couple years ago!"
Bookkeeper: *looking online*  "OH.  MY.  GOSH.  This has, like, 700 calories!  What the heck?!  I am never getting another one of these!  Look at the sugar and fat!  Where does it all come from?!"
Me: "I think it's all the fancy syrups they use.  Those shops add a lot more sugar to coffee than you would if you made it for yourself."

So, yes, those drinks have a LOT of calories.  Apparently, this knowledge is not as common as one would expect.  For the price and calories, I would rather have an occasional milkshake!
Lol I had a similar experience at work. Coworker is trying to lose weight, joined a bootcamp type gym and goes 3x/week. But she's gaining weight and she knows her problem is her and her new bf go out to eat quite a bit.

Her: "But I try to get healthy stuff. Like at Applebees I'll get the wanton tacos and fried green beans. I mean I know their fried but their green beans so they're kinda healthy"

I looked them up for her. The fried green beans were ~550 calories and ~45 grams of fat, wanton tacos not much better. This was not a meal, this was an after 9pm happy hour thing they did every week (so probably some alcohol too)

I'd kind of need alcohol too with that sort of thing as well, because I know I'm not going to respect myself in the morning. It's not that I don't appreciate taco. I do. Especially if it's wanton. But I prefer to be in a committed relationship of some kind.
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Nederstash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1375 on: May 18, 2016, 02:11:45 PM »
Yes!  I always thought of MMM when this song came on the radio!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTjfMczkOYo

Pink Floyd - Money makes me think of MMM. Fantastic song btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI

BDWW

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1376 on: May 18, 2016, 02:51:44 PM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".

Good luck with that. I once talked to a buffalo rancher who said that you can't build a fence and put buffalo inside; what you have to do is take delivery of your buffalo (apparently they typically come by train, using reinforced cars because they can and do ram their heads right through the walls of regular cars), and then let them hang out for a while until you can see where they like to hang out. Once they have chosen a preferred hangout spot, you can then build a fence around that spot and they'll stay there. But if you try to fence them into some area that's convenient to you without regard to their preferences, they will work together to ram through the fence. And then they will resume hanging out at the spot they want to hang out at. It might only be a few yards away, but they want what they want, and they are large enough to insist upon it.

In short, buffalo are awesome.

Great story, Daleth.

Also, I'll just leave this here.  (I guess I'm just going to be that person today.)

http://www.livescience.com/32115-bison-vs-buffalo-whats-the-difference.html

Oddly there have been lots of bison in the news lately.

At least one bison has been successfully housebroken:
http://www.wral.com/texas-woman-sells-housebroken-bison-she-let-wander-inside/15707045/

Meanwhile, in Yellowstone, some asshole tourists do something stupid and fuck up the imprinting process, causing the little bison calf to be rejected by the herd:
http://www.argusleader.com/story/news/crime/2016/05/16/rescued-yellowstone-bison-calf-euthanized/84448744/

I actually suspect the rangers just wanted an excuse to grill out.

I live 90 miles or so north of Yellowstone. This kind of stuff happens constantly. Although the putting the calf in a car was a new level of stupidity*.

Every car that enters Yellowstone is given a handout explaining that the animals are wild. There are signs posted all over the place stating "Do not approach wildlife."  And yet every year, at least a couple people are mauled or trampled. These people are lovingly referred to as "Tourons" by the park staff.

*A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools - Douglas Adams

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1377 on: May 18, 2016, 04:13:20 PM »
When we were there a guy got mauled by a Bison for walking right up to it and taking it's pic. A few weeks ago I saw on the internet where a woman walked up to one and petted it. There are huge signs everywhere warning you  to not be stupid. They also call the joggers on the trails "fast food."  When we were there we saw some Bison running and can they go fast. It is amazing. They all tell people where not to take your dogs because they make some of the wildlife angry.  Yep, saw a ranger save a couple with a big dog having a picnic in forbidden area and a Bison approaching.  It's hard to believe how stupid people really are.

Kenbo

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1378 on: May 18, 2016, 05:15:04 PM »
Natural selection just doing its thing ;)


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1379 on: May 18, 2016, 06:33:24 PM »

Here's a bad hunter story for you...

When I was growing up a local rancher whose wife worked with my mother owned a small herd of buffalo.  He decided to sell two "hunting" tags to some high-rollers from out of state (its hard to call it hunting when you are stalking a herd of privately-owned, large, slow-moving animals in a fenced pasture but if you call it "hunting" apparently people who fancy themselves as manly men will pay high dollar for the privilege).  Apparently these folks shot their two buffalo and proceeded to cut the heads off for taxidermy and leave the carcasses in field. 

Yeah, we had a lake place and 5 acres and I came across a couple deer when I was a kid with their antlers cut off and a chunk cut out of the side, everything else left. :(
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1380 on: May 18, 2016, 08:43:10 PM »
I'd kind of need alcohol too with that sort of thing as well, because I know I'm not going to respect myself in the morning. It's not that I don't appreciate taco. I do. Especially if it's wanton. But I prefer to be in a committed relationship of some kind.

Just letting you know that someone appreciated your sense of humor...

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1381 on: May 19, 2016, 06:18:35 AM »
I'd kind of need alcohol too with that sort of thing as well, because I know I'm not going to respect myself in the morning. It's not that I don't appreciate taco. I do. Especially if it's wanton. But I prefer to be in a committed relationship of some kind.

Just letting you know that someone appreciated your sense of humor...

LOL!  Thanks for the laugh this morning!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1382 on: May 19, 2016, 10:52:51 AM »
I'd kind of need alcohol too with that sort of thing as well, because I know I'm not going to respect myself in the morning. It's not that I don't appreciate taco. I do. Especially if it's wanton. But I prefer to be in a committed relationship of some kind.

Just letting you know that someone appreciated your sense of humor...

+1  Thank you, I laughed so hard.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1383 on: May 21, 2016, 02:46:18 PM »
Yes!  I always thought of MMM when this song came on the radio!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTjfMczkOYo

Pink Floyd - Money makes me think of MMM. Fantastic song btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI

Ohhh - I love some Floyd. Was my favorite earlier in life. Still listening.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1384 on: May 21, 2016, 03:08:12 PM »

So, yes, those drinks have a LOT of calories.  Apparently, this knowledge is not as common as one would expect.  For the price and calories, I would rather have an occasional milkshake!

Yeah, I'll admit that I used to get a Venti White Chocolate Mocha from Starbucks every so often, or its Caribou equivalent, but I later realized just how terrible it was for me and quickly stopped. This was when I was maybe 16, but it was the moment I started to open in my eyes as to how much crap I was eating and so ate better. I did, at least until I went to college.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1385 on: May 21, 2016, 03:34:20 PM »
When we were there a guy got mauled by a Bison for walking right up to it and taking it's pic. A few weeks ago I saw on the internet where a woman walked up to one and petted it. There are huge signs everywhere warning you  to not be stupid. They also call the joggers on the trails "fast food."  When we were there we saw some Bison running and can they go fast. It is amazing. They all tell people where not to take your dogs because they make some of the wildlife angry.  Yep, saw a ranger save a couple with a big dog having a picnic in forbidden area and a Bison approaching.  It's hard to believe how stupid people really are.

Years ago we were staying at a cabin near Artists point. That evening a ranger knocks on the door. I answer and he says hello. His next line is "I'm here to tell you to not pet the Buffaloes".  I look at him like he has lost his mind and say, "well, you have my attention, do you suspect that I might have the urge to do such petting?" He then tells me that a Japanese woman nearly bled to death at my front door, a few days ago, when she decided to pet the Buffalo. It gored her, tossed her in the air, and punctured the main artery in her leg. The only reason she didn't bleed out is that she was real close to medical help. Had she tried this stunt a few miles out on a trail, it wouldn't of ended as well for her. So, yes you are correct, human can be incredibly stupid.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1386 on: May 22, 2016, 04:53:34 AM »
When we were there a guy got mauled by a Bison for walking right up to it and taking it's pic. A few weeks ago I saw on the internet where a woman walked up to one and petted it. There are huge signs everywhere warning you  to not be stupid. They also call the joggers on the trails "fast food."  When we were there we saw some Bison running and can they go fast. It is amazing. They all tell people where not to take your dogs because they make some of the wildlife angry.  Yep, saw a ranger save a couple with a big dog having a picnic in forbidden area and a Bison approaching.  It's hard to believe how stupid people really are.

Years ago we were staying at a cabin near Artists point. That evening a ranger knocks on the door. I answer and he says hello. His next line is "I'm here to tell you to not pet the Buffaloes".  I look at him like he has lost his mind and say, "well, you have my attention, do you suspect that I might have the urge to do such petting?" He then tells me that a Japanese woman nearly bled to death at my front door, a few days ago, when she decided to pet the Buffalo. It gored her, tossed her in the air, and punctured the main artery in her leg. The only reason she didn't bleed out is that she was real close to medical help. Had she tried this stunt a few miles out on a trail, it wouldn't of ended as well for her. So, yes you are correct, human can be incredibly stupid.

I can't imagine wanting to pet one. They're large, filthy and stinky. My family and I were attacked by a buffalo while hiking on the trails through Yellowstone as a child. "Oh look, I think that's a buffalo in the distance." "Oh, he's getting closer. I wonder where he's going?" "Oh shit...run. Run now." "Climb the damn butte, he's pissed about something."  "Is he going to ever stop pawing the ground and racing circles around this pile of rocks?" "It's getting dark. I hope he gets bored soon..." There was no 'oh let's pet the buffalo'. It was having a bad day and didn't seem to need a reason to try to gore a group of tourists to death.

Humans used to kill those things with sticks. I can't even imagine.  Now they're getting their revenge, though...
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1387 on: May 22, 2016, 08:43:48 AM »
Obviously those are just guidelines for other people, right? Not for me!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1388 on: May 22, 2016, 08:54:29 AM »
Obviously those are just guidelines for other people, right? Not for me!
Well those guidelines are obviously waa-aay  too cautious in the first place, obviously they were put in place because of some one-time weird event.  So of course we can better judge the true risk ourselves.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1389 on: May 22, 2016, 09:36:28 AM »
Obviously those are just guidelines for other people, right? Not for me!
Well those guidelines are obviously waa-aay  too cautious in the first place, obviously they were put in place because of some one-time weird event.  So of course we can better judge the true risk ourselves.

And, anyway, that baby buffalo looked really cold...
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1390 on: May 24, 2016, 09:01:16 AM »
Obviously those are just guidelines for other people, right? Not for me!
Well those guidelines are obviously waa-aay  too cautious in the first place, obviously they were put in place because of some one-time weird event.  So of course we can better judge the true risk ourselves.

On the buffalo theme, I spent a while in Southern Africa doing research across three countries.  While in Namibia we were working with one of the park biologists.  The day we showed up a tourist got snatched off of a bench he had decided to sleep on, at night, when it's separated from the watering hole by an 8 foot fence, that had trees growing next to it.  I remarked at how fing stupid do you have to be, which led to this gem.  Apparently stupidity always plays a role in the park, they lose people every year to attacks.  The one that took the cake to this guy was the Japanese tourist who was in a vehicle, saw a pride fight between two males, the one that lost was obviously injured and it crawled into some bushes.  She GETS out of the car, gets a first aid kit, and attempted to patch the lion up with some gauze.  It ate her. 

I think across all countries/areas people associate national park with "petting zoo" and think that just because they are in a park they are domesticated like Fido or Fluffy

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1391 on: May 24, 2016, 09:18:31 AM »
Obviously those are just guidelines for other people, right? Not for me!
Well those guidelines are obviously waa-aay  too cautious in the first place, obviously they were put in place because of some one-time weird event.  So of course we can better judge the true risk ourselves.

On the buffalo theme, I spent a while in Southern Africa doing research across three countries.  While in Namibia we were working with one of the park biologists.  The day we showed up a tourist got snatched off of a bench he had decided to sleep on, at night, when it's separated from the watering hole by an 8 foot fence, that had trees growing next to it.  I remarked at how fing stupid do you have to be, which led to this gem.  Apparently stupidity always plays a role in the park, they lose people every year to attacks.  The one that took the cake to this guy was the Japanese tourist who was in a vehicle, saw a pride fight between two males, the one that lost was obviously injured and it crawled into some bushes.  She GETS out of the car, gets a first aid kit, and attempted to patch the lion up with some gauze.  It ate her. 

I think across all countries/areas people associate national park with "petting zoo" and think that just because they are in a park they are domesticated like Fido or Fluffy

lol wtf - that is pretty dumb.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1392 on: May 24, 2016, 09:21:09 AM »
Obviously those are just guidelines for other people, right? Not for me!
Well those guidelines are obviously waa-aay  too cautious in the first place, obviously they were put in place because of some one-time weird event.  So of course we can better judge the true risk ourselves.

On the buffalo theme, I spent a while in Southern Africa doing research across three countries.  While in Namibia we were working with one of the park biologists.  The day we showed up a tourist got snatched off of a bench he had decided to sleep on, at night, when it's separated from the watering hole by an 8 foot fence, that had trees growing next to it.  I remarked at how fing stupid do you have to be, which led to this gem.  Apparently stupidity always plays a role in the park, they lose people every year to attacks.  The one that took the cake to this guy was the Japanese tourist who was in a vehicle, saw a pride fight between two males, the one that lost was obviously injured and it crawled into some bushes.  She GETS out of the car, gets a first aid kit, and attempted to patch the lion up with some gauze.  It ate her. 

I think across all countries/areas people associate national park with "petting zoo" and think that just because they are in a park they are domesticated like Fido or Fluffy
I now want to know if eating her gave him enough energy to heal and live. 

jeromedawg

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1393 on: May 24, 2016, 09:46:21 AM »
Is it possible to be high-maintenance and frugal at the same time?

My BIL is a paradox in this regard, claiming to be frugal yet being one of the most high-maintenance people ever. So much so that my wife had to go out of her way this morning to pick-up a Starbucks for him because he wouldn't be able to function otherwise (he's visiting from out of town so my wife is trying to be gracious). I discussed with her how he has told me multiple times "Oh I'm frugal too" when discussing various topics with him - last night, it was how my mom is so frugal and doesn't like to spend a ton of money on accommodations when going on vacation (in comparison to some of her other siblings who totally splurge on that stuff). His response to this was "Oh, I'm frugal too... but when it comes to vacation, I like to splurge a little" (or a lot, in relative terms). I haven't mustered the courage yet to tell him that being frugal is a mindset, not a few things you do here and there to "save money"

He lives in San Francisco, and he and his partner make a lot combined (if I had to guess, somewhere to the tune of $300k+ but 2/3rds of it is his partner's salary), so the lifestyle inflation is understandable to an extent I guess. If he were on his own and living this way, he'd probably be in total debt. He does give examples of how he's "frugal" but those are just one-off examples (e.g. I don't buy Starbucks or Peets anymore because they have coffee at work). Just yesterday, he was complaining to me about how his gym charged him a $30 annual fee that they didn't tell him about, and was asking what recourse he has to fight it. Then he went on to talk about how the monthly fees are $250 and quickly explained "oh it's not about the money. It's just that they're being shady with all these extra charges" - a day prior to this I overheard him venting about this issue with one of their friends who was over, and how he already spends way too much on these spin classes (which is the only thing he does because "he's a cardio guy, not a weights guy" - that's another mind-boggling comment to *facepunch* for some other time). At some point I interjected and said "or, you could just buy a bike and ride it..." to which he replied "yea...but I need someone to push me" - SMH... this guy is like the ultimate when it comes to needing to be fed from a silver spoon. Everything must be setup to cater to him directly, and at any cost (even if it's my wife going out of her way to pick him up from the airport because he "hates driving in LA (or anywhere, for that matter)"
 
My wife also told me about how he has told her he's frugal several times as well, then she says to me "and then he spends $80 at the barber and $20+ on shampoo"

Just.Don't.Get.It


LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1394 on: May 24, 2016, 09:49:20 AM »
Is it possible to be high-maintenance and frugal at the same time?

He's not frugal.  He's just deluding himself.

Warlord1986

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1395 on: May 24, 2016, 09:56:07 AM »
Is it possible to be high-maintenance and frugal at the same time?

My BIL is a paradox in this regard, claiming to be frugal yet being one of the most high-maintenance people ever. So much so that my wife had to go out of her way this morning to pick-up a Starbucks for him because he wouldn't be able to function otherwise (he's visiting from out of town so my wife is trying to be gracious). I discussed with her how he has told me multiple times "Oh I'm frugal too" when discussing various topics with him - last night, it was how my mom is so frugal and doesn't like to spend a ton of money on accommodations when going on vacation (in comparison to some of her other siblings who totally splurge on that stuff). His response to this was "Oh, I'm frugal too... but when it comes to vacation, I like to splurge a little" (or a lot, in relative terms). I haven't mustered the courage yet to tell him that being frugal is a mindset, not a few things you do here and there to "save money"

He lives in San Francisco, and he and his partner make a lot combined (if I had to guess, somewhere to the tune of $300k+ but 2/3rds of it is his partner's salary), so the lifestyle inflation is understandable to an extent I guess. If he were on his own and living this way, he'd probably be in total debt. He does give examples of how he's "frugal" but those are just one-off examples (e.g. I don't buy Starbucks or Peets anymore because they have coffee at work). Just yesterday, he was complaining to me about how his gym charged him a $30 annual fee that they didn't tell him about, and was asking what recourse he has to fight it. Then he went on to talk about how the monthly fees are $250 and quickly explained "oh it's not about the money. It's just that they're being shady with all these extra charges" - a day prior to this I overheard him venting about this issue with one of their friends who was over, and how he already spends way too much on these spin classes (which is the only thing he does because "he's a cardio guy, not a weights guy" - that's another mind-boggling comment to *facepunch* for some other time). At some point I interjected and said "or, you could just buy a bike and ride it..." to which he replied "yea...but I need someone to push me" - SMH... this guy is like the ultimate when it comes to needing to be fed from a silver spoon. Everything must be setup to cater to him directly, and at any cost (even if it's my wife going out of her way to pick him up from the airport because he "hates driving in LA (or anywhere, for that matter)"
 
My wife also told me about how he has told her he's frugal several times as well, then she says to me "and then he spends $80 at the barber and $20+ on shampoo"

Just.Don't.Get.It

Your wife has the patience of a saint. How is it that he doesn't get Starbucks anymore, but is okay with asking her to pick him up a cup in order for him to 'function?' What kind of guest asks that of a host? I mean, he could at least have gone with her and they could have spent some time together as family. :/

This clown is not frugal. He is ill-mannered and lazy.

jeromedawg

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1396 on: May 24, 2016, 10:24:59 AM »
Is it possible to be high-maintenance and frugal at the same time?

My BIL is a paradox in this regard, claiming to be frugal yet being one of the most high-maintenance people ever. So much so that my wife had to go out of her way this morning to pick-up a Starbucks for him because he wouldn't be able to function otherwise (he's visiting from out of town so my wife is trying to be gracious). I discussed with her how he has told me multiple times "Oh I'm frugal too" when discussing various topics with him - last night, it was how my mom is so frugal and doesn't like to spend a ton of money on accommodations when going on vacation (in comparison to some of her other siblings who totally splurge on that stuff). His response to this was "Oh, I'm frugal too... but when it comes to vacation, I like to splurge a little" (or a lot, in relative terms). I haven't mustered the courage yet to tell him that being frugal is a mindset, not a few things you do here and there to "save money"

He lives in San Francisco, and he and his partner make a lot combined (if I had to guess, somewhere to the tune of $300k+ but 2/3rds of it is his partner's salary), so the lifestyle inflation is understandable to an extent I guess. If he were on his own and living this way, he'd probably be in total debt. He does give examples of how he's "frugal" but those are just one-off examples (e.g. I don't buy Starbucks or Peets anymore because they have coffee at work). Just yesterday, he was complaining to me about how his gym charged him a $30 annual fee that they didn't tell him about, and was asking what recourse he has to fight it. Then he went on to talk about how the monthly fees are $250 and quickly explained "oh it's not about the money. It's just that they're being shady with all these extra charges" - a day prior to this I overheard him venting about this issue with one of their friends who was over, and how he already spends way too much on these spin classes (which is the only thing he does because "he's a cardio guy, not a weights guy" - that's another mind-boggling comment to *facepunch* for some other time). At some point I interjected and said "or, you could just buy a bike and ride it..." to which he replied "yea...but I need someone to push me" - SMH... this guy is like the ultimate when it comes to needing to be fed from a silver spoon. Everything must be setup to cater to him directly, and at any cost (even if it's my wife going out of her way to pick him up from the airport because he "hates driving in LA (or anywhere, for that matter)"
 
My wife also told me about how he has told her he's frugal several times as well, then she says to me "and then he spends $80 at the barber and $20+ on shampoo"

Just.Don't.Get.It

Your wife has the patience of a saint. How is it that he doesn't get Starbucks anymore, but is okay with asking her to pick him up a cup in order for him to 'function?' What kind of guest asks that of a host? I mean, he could at least have gone with her and they could have spent some time together as family. :/

This clown is not frugal. He is ill-mannered and lazy.

She sorta picked it up on her own volition because he didn't really ask her to do that. Though, by him stating he can't function without coffee (and being all insistent on this point), and then her schedule for the day not provisioning the time for his coffee and in the right setting (they can't just pick the coffee up on the way out of the house and have him drink it while in the car because he needs to drink it before his morning dump, excuse the crudity), this was the solution she came up with (buy it at the Starbucks around the corner and bring it home before he wakes up). And of course, he probably is just going to say "Oh ok thanks!" rather than "you really didn't need to do that - I could have lived without it" (or who knows, maybe there's a spark of hope that the latter will come out of his mouth).
Everything revolves around him when he visits (and he often never realizes this - most people who are like this aren't very self-aware to begin with). My in-laws call it "mah-fun" (or "trouble" in Chinese) every time he visits, because he has all these requests and preferences... though, they're not the type of people who will deny anyone's request, so they sort of bring it upon themselves as well as enable him. Anyway, it just proves how much she loves her family lol....
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 10:28:19 AM by jplee3 »

jeromedawg

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1397 on: May 24, 2016, 10:30:26 AM »
Is it possible to be high-maintenance and frugal at the same time?

He's not frugal.  He's just deluding himself.

Agreed. I think it's the whole mentality of burying your head in the sand when you want to ignore something - "if I keep saying enough good and positive things about myself, then it will become reality!" - maybe this is the source of all narcissism!

I always get all worked up when he comes to visit in the sense that I turn into a complainypants that we have to host one of the most neediest people around. My wife gets worked up too but only because of the laundry-list of items she needs to take care of to accommodate him (clean the 2nd bathroom to "spotless", fix his bed all nice, vacuum, clean up so everything is perfect to meet the needs of the OCD, etc).

That all said, I don't want to vilify him [too much lol]. He is a very sensitive and caring person and my wife loves him because he's still blood and family. It's just funny and frustrating the things she has to put up with...
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 10:36:48 AM by jplee3 »

Posthumane

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1398 on: May 24, 2016, 11:53:06 AM »
My parents and I are often in disagreement about self-sufficiency and doing/building/fixing things yourself. There is often a contridiction where, on the one hand they praise the fact that I know how to do a lot of things for myself, but on the other hand discourage me from actually doing it.

My dad was visiting a couple weeks ago and praised the good job I did on rebuilding the railing around my deck. He asked if I had helped from my FIL (who is into woodworking) and I said that no, I did it myself with help from my wife. He was surprised because "it looks like it was done by someone who knows what they're doing." I also pointed out the bench I made with the leftover wood, he kind of ooohed and awed about it and said something along the lines of "well you can do those things because you have skills..."
But then the other day when I was on the phone with him I told him about a pair of oars I was making and he said I really shouldn't be making them and I should just go buy a pair. I told him I wanted to get better at fiberglass work (I was putting fiberglass on the tips of the blades as reinforcement) because I was having a bit of trouble making them look nice, he said "you can't learn everything, you should just let the professionals do these things" and told me I should go see a movie instead.
My mom has similar comments. The other day she was saying that she admires that I'm so handy and can fix things, but anytime something breaks and I say I'm going to try fixing it she explaims something along the lines of "don't bother, just throw it out and buy another one!" and how trying to fix stuff is a waste of time. When they bought us a dishwasher for xmas, they were adamant that I hire a professional to come install it (and deliver it) instead of doing it myself because <something about liability if it leaks>. Even though the all the lines were already there, from our old dishwasher. I ended up picking it up from the store and installing it myself in a couple of hours.

Anyway, they don't seem to see the correlation between doing things yourself, and being good at doing things yourself. They must assume that some people are born with these abilities, and not that they are a result of any kind of practice.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 11:57:32 AM by Posthumane »

jeromedawg

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1399 on: May 24, 2016, 12:35:41 PM »
My parents and I are often in disagreement about self-sufficiency and doing/building/fixing things yourself. There is often a contridiction where, on the one hand they praise the fact that I know how to do a lot of things for myself, but on the other hand discourage me from actually doing it.

My dad was visiting a couple weeks ago and praised the good job I did on rebuilding the railing around my deck. He asked if I had helped from my FIL (who is into woodworking) and I said that no, I did it myself with help from my wife. He was surprised because "it looks like it was done by someone who knows what they're doing." I also pointed out the bench I made with the leftover wood, he kind of ooohed and awed about it and said something along the lines of "well you can do those things because you have skills..."
But then the other day when I was on the phone with him I told him about a pair of oars I was making and he said I really shouldn't be making them and I should just go buy a pair. I told him I wanted to get better at fiberglass work (I was putting fiberglass on the tips of the blades as reinforcement) because I was having a bit of trouble making them look nice, he said "you can't learn everything, you should just let the professionals do these things" and told me I should go see a movie instead.
My mom has similar comments. The other day she was saying that she admires that I'm so handy and can fix things, but anytime something breaks and I say I'm going to try fixing it she explaims something along the lines of "don't bother, just throw it out and buy another one!" and how trying to fix stuff is a waste of time. When they bought us a dishwasher for xmas, they were adamant that I hire a professional to come install it (and deliver it) instead of doing it myself because <something about liability if it leaks>. Even though the all the lines were already there, from our old dishwasher. I ended up picking it up from the store and installing it myself in a couple of hours.

Anyway, they don't seem to see the correlation between doing things yourself, and being good at doing things yourself. They must assume that some people are born with these abilities, and not that they are a result of any kind of practice.

LOL, this is how my in-laws are especially. They just have no idea and then are amazed by what you can DIY. But then because they are impatient or can't wait in some cases, they'll just pay someone to do something that could have easily been DIYed. The worst part is that in the cases where hiring a professional might be "justified" - they'll usually just go with someone who does a crappy job or charges them way too much because they didn't vet them or research them. It's all about paying for convenience with some people... so much so that all you can do is shake your head.