Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 886456 times)

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1300 on: May 06, 2016, 09:43:41 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
Same feelings as Dezrah and Maco.  Has anyone read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair?  I remember learning a little about it in American History class, but never got around to actually reading it.  http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Upton-Sinclair/dp/1503331865/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462477839&sr=8-1&keywords=the+jungle

Yes I've read it.  It's not really an expose of the slaughterhouse industry like you think it will be.  It's more a story about immigrants working in that industry-so you get a "tour" of the factory and hear about their awful working and living conditions in the early 1900's.  It's definitely more about how terrible things were for the people, which does factor in to some people's choice to not eat meat.  But the general public was much  more concerned about how dirty their meat was, not how some lowly immigrant was treated every day.

That's a good point, I recall reading in history class that Sinclair intended to bring attention the plight of the poor workers, but instead what caught people's attention was the meat and how unsanitary it was. Reportedly Theodore Roosevelt was sickened by it and refused his morning sausage (yeah my memory remembers the weirdest things).

chaskavitch

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1301 on: May 06, 2016, 10:42:41 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
Same feelings as Dezrah and Maco.  Has anyone read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair?  I remember learning a little about it in American History class, but never got around to actually reading it.  http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Upton-Sinclair/dp/1503331865/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462477839&sr=8-1&keywords=the+jungle

Ick.  My sister stopped eating any meat besides fish for about 6 months after she read that book in HS.  Super gross, but effective in getting the FDA started.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1302 on: May 07, 2016, 05:50:02 AM »
If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.

I stopped being a vegetarian when I realised that I actually would be OK looking a cow in the face, shooting it, and then making "Mmmm... Delicious..." noises as I later ate it. There's a big difference for me in the idea that someone would one day say "Surprise! Now you have to kill your pet cat and eat it!" (I would be devastated) and someone saying "Now's the day to kill that chicken that on the day you bought it you decided would make better chicken pie than coq au vin!" If something was a food animal from day one I would have no problem killing it and eating it, but if you've bought an animal with the intention of having a pet you can't just suddenly turn round and decide it's dinner. That said, if I did have chickens and ended up killing them I'd really really struggle the first time with worrying about doing it wrong. They may be food animals and not pets, but they still deserve a swift death, not me hacking at them for half an hour. I'd have to get an experienced friend to come and do it with me a few times so it wasn't too drawn out.

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1303 on: May 07, 2016, 08:05:44 AM »
If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.

I stopped being a vegetarian when I realised that I actually would be OK looking a cow in the face, shooting it, and then making "Mmmm... Delicious..." noises as I later ate it. There's a big difference for me in the idea that someone would one day say "Surprise! Now you have to kill your pet cat and eat it!" (I would be devastated) and someone saying "Now's the day to kill that chicken that on the day you bought it you decided would make better chicken pie than coq au vin!" If something was a food animal from day one I would have no problem killing it and eating it, but if you've bought an animal with the intention of having a pet you can't just suddenly turn round and decide it's dinner. That said, if I did have chickens and ended up killing them I'd really really struggle the first time with worrying about doing it wrong. They may be food animals and not pets, but they still deserve a swift death, not me hacking at them for half an hour. I'd have to get an experienced friend to come and do it with me a few times so it wasn't too drawn out.

HAHAHA! Re bold, I think that's a pretty decent indicator about your preferences.

And I agree that having a relationship with something makes it feel less like food and more like family. I've never been a gardener, but I wonder if people feel (even just a little) similarly about that? Like it's hard to eat their tomatoes that they spent so much time growing.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1304 on: May 07, 2016, 08:11:34 AM »
Nope.   To my garden I say "Tomato plant, give me wonderful yummy tomatoes to eat."  And I eat.

Angst - ground hog/bird/insect - "I did NOT grow that plant for YOU to eat!  I wanted to eat it.  If I could I would eat you in retaliation."

And I agree that having a relationship with something makes it feel less like food and more like family. I've never been a gardener, but I wonder if people feel (even just a little) similarly about that? Like it's hard to eat their tomatoes that they spent so much time growing.
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hernandz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1305 on: May 07, 2016, 08:14:58 AM »
Agreed. Peeing outside is awesome. Pooping outside? Notsomuch.

I'm going to guess the "peeing outside is awesome" contingent tend towards the XY equipment. Splashing my own socks puts a literal and figurative damper on the day, no matter how pretty the scenery. 

Rezdent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1306 on: May 07, 2016, 08:24:36 AM »
Agreed. Peeing outside is awesome. Pooping outside? Notsomuch.

I'm going to guess the "peeing outside is awesome" contingent tend towards the XY equipment. Splashing my own socks puts a literal and figurative damper on the day, no matter how pretty the scenery.

Definitely requires a bit more thought on site selection to avoid splash.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1307 on: May 07, 2016, 12:03:46 PM »
If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.

I stopped being a vegetarian when I realised that I actually would be OK looking a cow in the face, shooting it, and then making "Mmmm... Delicious..." noises as I later ate it. There's a big difference for me in the idea that someone would one day say "Surprise! Now you have to kill your pet cat and eat it!" (I would be devastated) and someone saying "Now's the day to kill that chicken that on the day you bought it you decided would make better chicken pie than coq au vin!" If something was a food animal from day one I would have no problem killing it and eating it, but if you've bought an animal with the intention of having a pet you can't just suddenly turn round and decide it's dinner. That said, if I did have chickens and ended up killing them I'd really really struggle the first time with worrying about doing it wrong. They may be food animals and not pets, but they still deserve a swift death, not me hacking at them for half an hour. I'd have to get an experienced friend to come and do it with me a few times so it wasn't too drawn out.

HAHAHA! Re bold, I think that's a pretty decent indicator about your preferences.

And I agree that having a relationship with something makes it feel less like food and more like family. I've never been a gardener, but I wonder if people feel (even just a little) similarly about that? Like it's hard to eat their tomatoes that they spent so much time growing.

I do tend to spend some time crooning over and admiring vegetables I have grown before eating them, but that is not because I am in any way reluctant to eat them - I just want to recall and be proud of all the weeks and months it took to get there, and to marvel at the magic of tiny little seeds turning into dinner time and time again, just like they're supposed to. (We planted our first saved seeds this year, tomato seeds, and I totally expected them to not germinate because surely you can't get actual real growing seeds just by saving the seed bit from a plant, right?? That would be too easy! They actually all popped up precisely on schedule and now we have three time as many tomato plants as we want. Oops...)

faithless

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1308 on: May 07, 2016, 12:37:23 PM »
Angst - ground hog/bird/insect - "I did NOT grow that plant for YOU to eat!  I wanted to eat it.  If I could I would eat you in retaliation."


Ah, you heard me shouting at the wood pigeon that ate all my blueberries. "Come back here and I'll bloody eat you!"

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1309 on: May 09, 2016, 12:14:56 PM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
If I had to personally fix my house, I'd be living in a cave. If I had to personally fix my plumbing, I'd be pooping in the forest. If I had to personally perform eye surgery, I'd be blind by now.

Luckily, I can pay people to do the tasks I suck at :-)


Ahh, but pooping in the forest carries it's very own level of enjoyment. Please add it to your bucket list.

Mosquito butt.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1310 on: May 10, 2016, 11:10:36 AM »
Better than poison ivy butt.

Ahh, but pooping in the forest carries it's very own level of enjoyment. Please add it to your bucket list.
Mosquito butt.
The measure of civilization is how people treat one another.

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Joggernot

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1311 on: May 10, 2016, 11:50:54 AM »
Down here it's fire ant butt.

BlueHouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1312 on: May 10, 2016, 11:51:32 AM »
Better than poison ivy butt.
Had it.  But in the front, not in the rear.  Not good.  Had to have cortisone pills mashed up in my food because I was too young/stubborn to swallow pills.
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BlueHouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1313 on: May 10, 2016, 11:58:01 AM »
My nephew has been living with me since July.  I started charging him rent (28% of 35 hr/week @ $9.00/hr job) back in January.  He just asked me if for his last month (May), I would just let it go and not charge rent.  His reasons were BS, so I said no, he has to pay me the rent for the month.  15 minutes later, he hired Lyft to take him to get his hair cut because it was drizzling out and he couldn't find an umbrella. 

p.s.  It's the 10th of May, and he hasn't paid the May rent yet. 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1314 on: May 10, 2016, 12:07:22 PM »
250,000 views for this thread. So many bad relative stories!

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1315 on: May 10, 2016, 01:14:12 PM »
My nephew has been living with me since July.  I started charging him rent (28% of 35 hr/week @ $9.00/hr job) back in January.  He just asked me if for his last month (May), I would just let it go and not charge rent.  His reasons were BS, so I said no, he has to pay me the rent for the month.  15 minutes later, he hired Lyft to take him to get his hair cut because it was drizzling out and he couldn't find an umbrella. 

p.s.  It's the 10th of May, and he hasn't paid the May rent yet.

Nephew logic being that he does not have the all the 400$ and will have to wait till next payday so he might as well spend 40$ getting his hair cut cuz it wont cover rent anyway...
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anorman79

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1316 on: May 10, 2016, 01:16:14 PM »
My in-laws are a bit clueless about money. I'll admit I'm not an extreme MMMer although I've always been pretty frugal, it's the accountant in me. But my wife was pretty bad with money when we met even by my standards. Her parents had pretty much ingrained in her that carrying credit card balances isn't a big deal as long as you make the minimum payment. Granted her parents aren't extremely well off but I'm sure they could button it up if they really wanted to.

My FIL is a nut. He has his annoying quirks but I do really like him, he's a nice guy and has always treated me great. But man he is terrible with money. He consistently screws up his taxes because he doesn't have enough withheld from his retirement, and does some 1099 work on the side(which nothing is withheld for) and when the big tax bill hits is totally flabbergasted despite the tax people telling them every year to make estimated payments. He asked me one time how he could avoid paying taxes on his 401k withdrawals. Uhhh you can't big guy. They actually would be great candidates for some of the tax avoidance strategies that these blogs talk about, like early retirees converting chunks of their 401k to Roth and using the standard deduction to offset it. But I think they have very little savings and MIL will probably be working until she drops.

BlueHouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1317 on: May 10, 2016, 01:21:41 PM »
My nephew has been living with me since July.  I started charging him rent (28% of 35 hr/week @ $9.00/hr job) back in January.  He just asked me if for his last month (May), I would just let it go and not charge rent.  His reasons were BS, so I said no, he has to pay me the rent for the month.  15 minutes later, he hired Lyft to take him to get his hair cut because it was drizzling out and he couldn't find an umbrella. 

p.s.  It's the 10th of May, and he hasn't paid the May rent yet.

Nephew logic being that he does not have the all the 400$ and will have to wait till next payday so he might as well spend 40$ getting his hair cut cuz it wont cover rent anyway...
Ha! maybe!  I should have mentioned, I only charge as if all months are 4 weeks.  I only charge him $300/month and he thinks that is a lot!  Also, while whining about how it's almost all of his money, he really didn't "get it" until I pointed out to him that he gets paid (at least) twice per month and I only charge rent once per month.  He thought half of his paycheck was going to rent.  Well okay, if you want to count it that way, it does.  But then there's a whole other paycheck that is ALL YOURS. 
I'm trying, but I've also sort of given up.  Shipping him back to his parents next month.  They can fix him if they care to. 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1318 on: May 10, 2016, 01:27:36 PM »
Every time I talk to my dad about something related to my apartment or housing, he asks me if I am going to buy a TV and if I've looked into getting cable/a satellite dish yet.  Every single time he mentions it I've told him a combination of "I wouldn't watch it enough," "I don't have room for a big TV in my little apartment," "The signal here would be terrible," and "I don't want to spend the money," but he just keeps asking.  The funny part is that I already have a home-built gaming computer with a 22" 1080p monitor, so I basically already have a TV that can stream anything over the internet, but apparently it's not the same.  Woe is me.

My nephew has been living with me since July.  I started charging him rent (28% of 35 hr/week @ $9.00/hr job) back in January.  He just asked me if for his last month (May), I would just let it go and not charge rent.  His reasons were BS, so I said no, he has to pay me the rent for the month.  15 minutes later, he hired Lyft to take him to get his hair cut because it was drizzling out and he couldn't find an umbrella. 

p.s.  It's the 10th of May, and he hasn't paid the May rent yet.

Nephew logic being that he does not have the all the 400$ and will have to wait till next payday so he might as well spend 40$ getting his hair cut cuz it wont cover rent anyway...
Ha! maybe!  I should have mentioned, I only charge as if all months are 4 weeks.  I only charge him $300/month and he thinks that is a lot!  Also, while whining about how it's almost all of his money, he really didn't "get it" until I pointed out to him that he gets paid (at least) twice per month and I only charge rent once per month.  He thought half of his paycheck was going to rent.  Well okay, if you want to count it that way, it does.  But then there's a whole other paycheck that is ALL YOURS. 
I'm trying, but I've also sort of given up.  Shipping him back to his parents next month.  They can fix him if they care to. 
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1319 on: May 10, 2016, 01:51:57 PM »
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

I've actually had a colleague (director-level!!!) ask me to remove the dollar signs on a spreadsheet because "she didn't understand numbers if they were money".

... in terms of discussing company profitability? Aish.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1320 on: May 10, 2016, 02:10:30 PM »
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

I've actually had a colleague (director-level!!!) ask me to remove the dollar signs on a spreadsheet because "she didn't understand numbers if they were money".

... in terms of discussing company profitability? Aish.
*eye twitch*
As an accountant, I think that would physically wound me.

patchyfacialhair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1321 on: May 10, 2016, 02:11:33 PM »
I've actually had a colleague (director-level!!!) ask me to remove the dollar signs on a spreadsheet because "she didn't understand numbers if they were money".

... in terms of discussing company profitability? Aish.

For what it's worth, I understand numbers better if they ARE money. So...y'all hirin?

infogoon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1322 on: May 10, 2016, 02:18:12 PM »
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

As someone in these fora pointed out, if there were a video game with a magical jewel you could conjure that generated more mana points, people would have no problem understanding it. Call it an "index fund" and "dollars" and it's suddenly impossible to understand.

MrsDinero

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1323 on: May 10, 2016, 02:26:40 PM »
As someone in these fora pointed out, if there were a video game with a magical jewel you could conjure that generated more mana points, people would have no problem understanding it. Call it an "index fund" and "dollars" and it's suddenly impossible to understand.

I'm going to use this certain people (gamers) start complaining about not having enough money or investing is too hard.

ender

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1324 on: May 10, 2016, 06:44:59 PM »
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

As someone in these fora pointed out, if there were a video game with a magical jewel you could conjure that generated more mana points, people would have no problem understanding it. Call it an "index fund" and "dollars" and it's suddenly impossible to understand.

I used to be heavily involved in a game where the concept of a "warchest" was critical - if a war happened and you had no money, you would not only get destroyed but you would basically have to start over. Having a warchest let you rebuild after the war and fight much longer.

It makes me wonder how much of an effect that has had on my MMM tendencies, because since early college I've had many opportunities to see the value of saving virtual money :)

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1325 on: May 10, 2016, 07:33:20 PM »
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

I've actually had a colleague (director-level!!!) ask me to remove the dollar signs on a spreadsheet because "she didn't understand numbers if they were money".

... in terms of discussing company profitability? Aish.
*eye twitch*
As an accountant, I think that would physically wound me.

Well, the accounting tech doesn't know how to do sums in Excel, so... Let's just say I've got my work cut out for me.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1326 on: May 11, 2016, 07:16:46 AM »
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

As someone in these fora pointed out, if there were a video game with a magical jewel you could conjure that generated more mana points, people would have no problem understanding it. Call it an "index fund" and "dollars" and it's suddenly impossible to understand.

I used to be heavily involved in a game where the concept of a "warchest" was critical - if a war happened and you had no money, you would not only get destroyed but you would basically have to start over. Having a warchest let you rebuild after the war and fight much longer.

It makes me wonder how much of an effect that has had on my MMM tendencies, because since early college I've had many opportunities to see the value of saving virtual money :)

I have wondered about this.  One of the games I play casually has in-game savings paid interest where the rate increases as you progress, in the early stages you earn 6%, latter on 21%.  The way the levels are setup in the game it is normally best to nearly ignore the 6% and spend the cash building up, then to save up cash as the interest rate increases.  How much does this carry over into real life, "its only 6%" hard to say, I know 6% IRL is good but I can see someone applying the "lessons" of the game to real investing and going "meh" to average sp500 returns.

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runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1327 on: May 11, 2016, 10:03:12 AM »
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

I've actually had a colleague (director-level!!!) ask me to remove the dollar signs on a spreadsheet because "she didn't understand numbers if they were money".

... in terms of discussing company profitability? Aish.
*eye twitch*
As an accountant, I think that would physically wound me.

Well, the accounting tech doesn't know how to do sums in Excel, so... Let's just say I've got my work cut out for me.
As in the =SUM() formula? Oh wow...Good luck

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1328 on: May 11, 2016, 11:23:26 AM »
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

I've actually had a colleague (director-level!!!) ask me to remove the dollar signs on a spreadsheet because "she didn't understand numbers if they were money".

... in terms of discussing company profitability? Aish.
*eye twitch*
As an accountant, I think that would physically wound me.

Well, the accounting tech doesn't know how to do sums in Excel, so... Let's just say I've got my work cut out for me.
As in the =SUM() formula? Oh wow...Good luck

Yeah. Thanks. I'm gonna need it.

Gondolin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1329 on: May 11, 2016, 12:13:48 PM »
I've posted before about my aunt who makes 300-400k, lives alone in a 3000sq ft house, has a boat, 2 dogs, travels 6 months of the year and is heavily indebted.

But, it's update time!

One of her dogs passed away. He was old so it wasn't a surprise when his cancer recurred. Still, sad times all around. However, when my aunt is sad she eats and shops away the pain. This time the grief was such that nothing would do except to head down to the dealership and trade in her 2003 Suburban for a nearly brand new Toyota. At least she only financed 30k of the 38k cost.

Again, she is trying to move and complains constantly about her lack of liquidity.
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eyesonthehorizon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1330 on: May 11, 2016, 08:50:27 PM »
If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.

I stopped being a vegetarian when I realised that I actually would be OK looking a cow in the face, shooting it, and then making "Mmmm... Delicious..." noises as I later ate it. There's a big difference for me in the idea that someone would one day say "Surprise! Now you have to kill your pet cat and eat it!" (I would be devastated) and someone saying "Now's the day to kill that chicken that on the day you bought it you decided would make better chicken pie than coq au vin!" If something was a food animal from day one I would have no problem killing it and eating it, but if you've bought an animal with the intention of having a pet you can't just suddenly turn round and decide it's dinner. That said, if I did have chickens and ended up killing them I'd really really struggle the first time with worrying about doing it wrong. They may be food animals and not pets, but they still deserve a swift death, not me hacking at them for half an hour. I'd have to get an experienced friend to come and do it with me a few times so it wasn't too drawn out.

HAHAHA! Re bold, I think that's a pretty decent indicator about your preferences.

And I agree that having a relationship with something makes it feel less like food and more like family. I've never been a gardener, but I wonder if people feel (even just a little) similarly about that? Like it's hard to eat their tomatoes that they spent so much time growing.

Forummm - I actually struggle with this, and not just with tomatoes - any kind of sprouts in particular since they're small and fragile and what passes as "chubby baby" cuteness in plants - it seems like such adorable doomed valor to have your sweet potatoes or onions or what have you go rooting in the pantry that it's hard to condemn them, especially as - unlike the rabbits, deer, etc. we also eat 'round these parts - plants can't run away. It feels unsporting.

Shelivesthedream - your post is the essence of conscious carnivore living. Good on you. There are lots of ways to humanely kill your livestock, and I'm utterly confident based on your post they'd have good lives up to that point too. If we had a society of people like you, the horrors of industrial meat would never have arisen, livestock would be the luckiest animals out there and we'd all be enjoying much higher quality Sunday dinners.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1331 on: May 12, 2016, 12:47:44 AM »
If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.

I stopped being a vegetarian when I realised that I actually would be OK looking a cow in the face, shooting it, and then making "Mmmm... Delicious..." noises as I later ate it. There's a big difference for me in the idea that someone would one day say "Surprise! Now you have to kill your pet cat and eat it!" (I would be devastated) and someone saying "Now's the day to kill that chicken that on the day you bought it you decided would make better chicken pie than coq au vin!" If something was a food animal from day one I would have no problem killing it and eating it, but if you've bought an animal with the intention of having a pet you can't just suddenly turn round and decide it's dinner. That said, if I did have chickens and ended up killing them I'd really really struggle the first time with worrying about doing it wrong. They may be food animals and not pets, but they still deserve a swift death, not me hacking at them for half an hour. I'd have to get an experienced friend to come and do it with me a few times so it wasn't too drawn out.

HAHAHA! Re bold, I think that's a pretty decent indicator about your preferences.

And I agree that having a relationship with something makes it feel less like food and more like family. I've never been a gardener, but I wonder if people feel (even just a little) similarly about that? Like it's hard to eat their tomatoes that they spent so much time growing.

Forummm - I actually struggle with this, and not just with tomatoes - any kind of sprouts in particular since they're small and fragile and what passes as "chubby baby" cuteness in plants - it seems like such adorable doomed valor to have your sweet potatoes or onions or what have you go rooting in the pantry that it's hard to condemn them, especially as - unlike the rabbits, deer, etc. we also eat 'round these parts - plants can't run away. It feels unsporting.

Shelivesthedream - your post is the essence of conscious carnivore living. Good on you. There are lots of ways to humanely kill your livestock, and I'm utterly confident based on your post they'd have good lives up to that point too. If we had a society of people like you, the horrors of industrial meat would never have arisen, livestock would be the luckiest animals out there and we'd all be enjoying much higher quality Sunday dinners.

I'll be honest, I still suck at practicing what I preach when it comes to shopping for animal products. I have started going to a nice local butcher but supermarket animal products still get far too much of my money. However, first, we don't eat a lot of meat. Once or twice a week, usually. And second, I have Big Plans to Tackle This when we move house next year and actually have a reasonably sized freezer and a fridge that retains its supposed temperature.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1332 on: May 12, 2016, 10:35:26 AM »
If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.

I stopped being a vegetarian when I realised that I actually would be OK looking a cow in the face, shooting it, and then making "Mmmm... Delicious..." noises as I later ate it. There's a big difference for me in the idea that someone would one day say "Surprise! Now you have to kill your pet cat and eat it!" (I would be devastated) and someone saying "Now's the day to kill that chicken that on the day you bought it you decided would make better chicken pie than coq au vin!" If something was a food animal from day one I would have no problem killing it and eating it, but if you've bought an animal with the intention of having a pet you can't just suddenly turn round and decide it's dinner. That said, if I did have chickens and ended up killing them I'd really really struggle the first time with worrying about doing it wrong. They may be food animals and not pets, but they still deserve a swift death, not me hacking at them for half an hour. I'd have to get an experienced friend to come and do it with me a few times so it wasn't too drawn out.

HAHAHA! Re bold, I think that's a pretty decent indicator about your preferences.

And I agree that having a relationship with something makes it feel less like food and more like family. I've never been a gardener, but I wonder if people feel (even just a little) similarly about that? Like it's hard to eat their tomatoes that they spent so much time growing.

Forummm - I actually struggle with this, and not just with tomatoes - any kind of sprouts in particular since they're small and fragile and what passes as "chubby baby" cuteness in plants - it seems like such adorable doomed valor to have your sweet potatoes or onions or what have you go rooting in the pantry that it's hard to condemn them, especially as - unlike the rabbits, deer, etc. we also eat 'round these parts - plants can't run away. It feels unsporting.

Shelivesthedream - your post is the essence of conscious carnivore living. Good on you. There are lots of ways to humanely kill your livestock, and I'm utterly confident based on your post they'd have good lives up to that point too. If we had a society of people like you, the horrors of industrial meat would never have arisen, livestock would be the luckiest animals out there and we'd all be enjoying much higher quality Sunday dinners.

I'll be honest, I still suck at practicing what I preach when it comes to shopping for animal products. I have started going to a nice local butcher but supermarket animal products still get far too much of my money. However, first, we don't eat a lot of meat. Once or twice a week, usually. And second, I have Big Plans to Tackle This when we move house next year and actually have a reasonably sized freezer and a fridge that retains its supposed temperature.

I was a vegetarian for 12 years due to having to tour industrial cattle and poultry processing plants and farms as a part of a college course.  To this day I still can't get one of the images from a particular poultry plant (large supermarket brand you've all heard of) out of my head.  Industrial meat production really is THAT bad, and not just for the animals but a lot of the workers as well. 

I'm not a vegetarian any longer, mainly due to DH, but a good 80% of our meat comes from hunting, DH is a highly trained professional shooter and we have a one shot one kill rule.  If you even slightly suspect you will injure that animal, and not immediately put it down, you don't take the shot.  If I"m going to eat something else I better be able to look it in the face and say you had the best life up until this point that you could have (PS I also have a year requirement, anything under 4 deer wise is off limits) then earn eating it through the time and effort put forth in stalking, finding and fully processing.   

One of our friends takes a lot of the vehicle accident animals, so animal control calls him when they get a report of a hit animal, they put it down and he breaks it down to donate the meat to local shelters etc. 

Now, not all hunters are ethical.  DH and I have gotten into numerous disagreements over the years with people just doing STUPID shit, but even the worst of that was still better then those damn plants

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1333 on: May 12, 2016, 11:19:45 AM »
My nephew has been living with me since July.  I started charging him rent (28% of 35 hr/week @ $9.00/hr job) back in January.  He just asked me if for his last month (May), I would just let it go and not charge rent.  His reasons were BS, so I said no, he has to pay me the rent for the month.  15 minutes later, he hired Lyft to take him to get his hair cut because it was drizzling out and he couldn't find an umbrella. 

p.s.  It's the 10th of May, and he hasn't paid the May rent yet.

Nephew logic being that he does not have the all the 400$ and will have to wait till next payday so he might as well spend 40$ getting his hair cut cuz it wont cover rent anyway...

Omg omg. I have some tenants who are on the verge of getting evicted who seem to operate on similar logic. How does that make sense to anyone?! I've had to tell them several times to send me whatever they can afford on the due date, and get me the rest later. I implemented a new late-fee policy that incentivizes that (if they pay half on time, the daily late fee from then until the rest of the payment is made is only half what it would be if they hadn't paid at all).

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1334 on: May 12, 2016, 12:15:53 PM »
Now, not all hunters are ethical.  DH and I have gotten into numerous disagreements over the years with people just doing STUPID shit, but even the worst of that was still better then those damn plants

Here's a bad hunter story for you...

When I was growing up a local rancher whose wife worked with my mother owned a small herd of buffalo.  He decided to sell two "hunting" tags to some high-rollers from out of state (its hard to call it hunting when you are stalking a herd of privately-owned, large, slow-moving animals in a fenced pasture but if you call it "hunting" apparently people who fancy themselves as manly men will pay high dollar for the privilege).  Apparently these folks shot their two buffalo and proceeded to cut the heads off for taxidermy and leave the carcasses in field.  As soon as the rancher realized what had happened, he took his tractor out to collect the carcasses and process them.  Considering full-grown buffalo can weigh one ton each, I wouldn't be surprised if the rancher salvaged a ton of meat that the "hunters" were going to let rot in the field.  No wonder buffalo almost went extinct...

The upside for us was that we were able to stock the freezer with lots of delicious, lean buffalo meat for a very reasonable price!  I figure the rancher probably made out pretty well, too, since he got to sell the meat twice. 

Edited to fix typos.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 12:23:58 PM by AlwaysLearningToSave »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1335 on: May 12, 2016, 12:27:11 PM »
Dear God, that is awful. I love my meat and taters as much as the next girl, but shooting something for fun is just sick.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1336 on: May 12, 2016, 11:33:28 PM »
Paying money to shoot a domesticated bison so you can eat it sounds okay.

Paying money to shoot a domesticated bison so you can let its body rot in the field while mounting its head in your den as a sign of some sort of accomplishment is ridiculous.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1337 on: May 13, 2016, 10:43:01 AM »
If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.

I stopped being a vegetarian when I realised that I actually would be OK looking a cow in the face, shooting it, and then making "Mmmm... Delicious..." noises as I later ate it. There's a big difference for me in the idea that someone would one day say "Surprise! Now you have to kill your pet cat and eat it!" (I would be devastated) and someone saying "Now's the day to kill that chicken that on the day you bought it you decided would make better chicken pie than coq au vin!" If something was a food animal from day one I would have no problem killing it and eating it, but if you've bought an animal with the intention of having a pet you can't just suddenly turn round and decide it's dinner. That said, if I did have chickens and ended up killing them I'd really really struggle the first time with worrying about doing it wrong. They may be food animals and not pets, but they still deserve a swift death, not me hacking at them for half an hour. I'd have to get an experienced friend to come and do it with me a few times so it wasn't too drawn out.

HAHAHA! Re bold, I think that's a pretty decent indicator about your preferences.

And I agree that having a relationship with something makes it feel less like food and more like family. I've never been a gardener, but I wonder if people feel (even just a little) similarly about that? Like it's hard to eat their tomatoes that they spent so much time growing.

Forummm - I actually struggle with this, and not just with tomatoes - any kind of sprouts in particular since they're small and fragile and what passes as "chubby baby" cuteness in plants - it seems like such adorable doomed valor to have your sweet potatoes or onions or what have you go rooting in the pantry that it's hard to condemn them, especially as - unlike the rabbits, deer, etc. we also eat 'round these parts - plants can't run away. It feels unsporting.

Shelivesthedream - your post is the essence of conscious carnivore living. Good on you. There are lots of ways to humanely kill your livestock, and I'm utterly confident based on your post they'd have good lives up to that point too. If we had a society of people like you, the horrors of industrial meat would never have arisen, livestock would be the luckiest animals out there and we'd all be enjoying much higher quality Sunday dinners.

I'll be honest, I still suck at practicing what I preach when it comes to shopping for animal products. I have started going to a nice local butcher but supermarket animal products still get far too much of my money. However, first, we don't eat a lot of meat. Once or twice a week, usually. And second, I have Big Plans to Tackle This when we move house next year and actually have a reasonably sized freezer and a fridge that retains its supposed temperature.

I was a vegetarian for 12 years due to having to tour industrial cattle and poultry processing plants and farms as a part of a college course.  To this day I still can't get one of the images from a particular poultry plant (large supermarket brand you've all heard of) out of my head.  Industrial meat production really is THAT bad, and not just for the animals but a lot of the workers as well. 

I'm not a vegetarian any longer, mainly due to DH, but a good 80% of our meat comes from hunting, DH is a highly trained professional shooter and we have a one shot one kill rule.  If you even slightly suspect you will injure that animal, and not immediately put it down, you don't take the shot.  If I"m going to eat something else I better be able to look it in the face and say you had the best life up until this point that you could have (PS I also have a year requirement, anything under 4 deer wise is off limits) then earn eating it through the time and effort put forth in stalking, finding and fully processing.   

One of our friends takes a lot of the vehicle accident animals, so animal control calls him when they get a report of a hit animal, they put it down and he breaks it down to donate the meat to local shelters etc. 

Now, not all hunters are ethical.  DH and I have gotten into numerous disagreements over the years with people just doing STUPID shit, but even the worst of that was still better then those damn plants

Sorry to continue with this derailment, but I just had to add to your poultry comment. My mom has chickens and about two years ago we rescued a chicken who fell off the back of a truck (a large chicken hauling truck). The chicken was the same size/slightly larger than our other chickens, so we assumed she was full grown. Nope, turns out they take them to slaughter at 6-8 weeks old. They spend all their lives under lights, and as anyone who has chickens knows, they go into that deep sleep/trance at night and don't move once it's dark. This chicken had no idea how to sleep. She spent two nights walking around the coop looking at all the other sleeping chickens.  Everyone told us she would probably live to be about 6 months old and then either her legs would break or her heart would explode. Sure enough, 5 months later, we came out and she was dead in the coop. She was a nice little chicken though.

Just my two cents on the mass-produced chicken variety.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1338 on: May 13, 2016, 10:52:41 AM »
Sorry to continue with this derailment, but I just had to add to your poultry comment. My mom has chickens and about two years ago we rescued a chicken who fell off the back of a truck (a large chicken hauling truck). The chicken was the same size/slightly larger than our other chickens, so we assumed she was full grown. Nope, turns out they take them to slaughter at 6-8 weeks old. They spend all their lives under lights, and as anyone who has chickens knows, they go into that deep sleep/trance at night and don't move once it's dark. This chicken had no idea how to sleep. She spent two nights walking around the coop looking at all the other sleeping chickens.  Everyone told us she would probably live to be about 6 months old and then either her legs would break or her heart would explode. Sure enough, 5 months later, we came out and she was dead in the coop. She was a nice little chicken though.

Just my two cents on the mass-produced chicken variety.

Ah, the Cornish Rock cross. Those are some confused, messed-up birds. I raised some a few years back and they are the stupidest creatures on this green earth. My other featherbabies were alert, clever chickens who ran about and were interested in their surroundings. The Cornish pretty much lived to eat and poop. They had little to no brain activity and were so stupid that I had to separate them from the other chicks the same age so they wouldn't get picked on despite being twice the size of the normal chickens. In fact one of them got trapped in a feeder. Besides being oversized, prone to ascites and heart problems due to having been bred to maximize growth, they're catastrophically stupid. I actually didn't feel bad about killing them since I regarded it as a way to put them out of their misery.

In case you don't believe me, here's a picture of stupid freezer bait being stupid. Never have I known a bird to do something this idiotic.
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Dezrah

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1339 on: May 13, 2016, 11:04:37 AM »
Paying money to shoot a domesticated bison so you can eat it sounds okay.

Paying money to shoot a domesticated bison so you can let its body rot in the field while mounting its head in your den as a sign of some sort of accomplishment is ridiculous.

Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Domestication is a deliberate evolutionary distinction implying controlled breeding efforts by humans for the purpose of suiting humans.  When humans domesticated wild rams we selected those with the sweetest temperment and the best wool production while deemphasizing things like horn size.  These sheep traded their cunning and survival instincts for an easy meal and the protection of humans.  This domestic species would do every poorly if it actually had to compete for survival in its environment.

Simply putting an animal in a cage, even if it is sweet and loving and nice, is not domestication.  These are tamed wild animals, not domestic animials.  Conversely, its possible for an otherwise domestic animal to break its bond/need for humans; we call these feral animals.

I have a pet bird and try to explain to people that unlike dogs, he is not a domestic pet, but rather a tamed wild animal.  He has not been selectively bred through generations to learn how to relate to humans.  If you want to be friends with him or any exotic bird, you have to meet him halfway and accept things like screeching, biting, and exploring because these are beneficial behaviors for the wild species.

However, there have been experiments demonstrating that when done right, it is possible to domesticate a wild species within a surprisingly small number of generations.  Has this been done with the American bison?  Just curious.

BFGirl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1340 on: May 13, 2016, 11:18:02 AM »
I'm convinced that money symbols are actually magical runes that make otherwise mathematically inclined people forget how addition and subtraction works.

As someone in these fora pointed out, if there were a video game with a magical jewel you could conjure that generated more mana points, people would have no problem understanding it. Call it an "index fund" and "dollars" and it's suddenly impossible to understand.

I used to be heavily involved in a game where the concept of a "warchest" was critical - if a war happened and you had no money, you would not only get destroyed but you would basically have to start over. Having a warchest let you rebuild after the war and fight much longer.

It makes me wonder how much of an effect that has had on my MMM tendencies, because since early college I've had many opportunities to see the value of saving virtual money :)

I have wondered about this.  One of the games I play casually has in-game savings paid interest where the rate increases as you progress, in the early stages you earn 6%, latter on 21%.  The way the levels are setup in the game it is normally best to nearly ignore the 6% and spend the cash building up, then to save up cash as the interest rate increases.  How much does this carry over into real life, "its only 6%" hard to say, I know 6% IRL is good but I can see someone applying the "lessons" of the game to real investing and going "meh" to average sp500 returns.

Animal Crossing actually has a feature where it pays you interest on your savings.  You have to pay off the mortgage on your current home before you can expand.  There are various ways to earn money, some of which make more sense than others.  Of course, there are also shops with clothes and furniture and stuff in the game too, but there are times that you can get that item for cheaper from another neighbor or store than from the "main" store.  There is also dumpster diving, lol.  Dang!  Now I want to go play!!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 11:20:58 AM by BFGirl »

wenchsenior

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1341 on: May 13, 2016, 02:27:37 PM »
Sorry to continue with this derailment, but I just had to add to your poultry comment. My mom has chickens and about two years ago we rescued a chicken who fell off the back of a truck (a large chicken hauling truck). The chicken was the same size/slightly larger than our other chickens, so we assumed she was full grown. Nope, turns out they take them to slaughter at 6-8 weeks old. They spend all their lives under lights, and as anyone who has chickens knows, they go into that deep sleep/trance at night and don't move once it's dark. This chicken had no idea how to sleep. She spent two nights walking around the coop looking at all the other sleeping chickens.  Everyone told us she would probably live to be about 6 months old and then either her legs would break or her heart would explode. Sure enough, 5 months later, we came out and she was dead in the coop. She was a nice little chicken though.

Just my two cents on the mass-produced chicken variety.

Ah, the Cornish Rock cross. Those are some confused, messed-up birds. I raised some a few years back and they are the stupidest creatures on this green earth. My other featherbabies were alert, clever chickens who ran about and were interested in their surroundings. The Cornish pretty much lived to eat and poop. They had little to no brain activity and were so stupid that I had to separate them from the other chicks the same age so they wouldn't get picked on despite being twice the size of the normal chickens. In fact one of them got trapped in a feeder. Besides being oversized, prone to ascites and heart problems due to having been bred to maximize growth, they're catastrophically stupid. I actually didn't feel bad about killing them since I regarded it as a way to put them out of their misery.

In case you don't believe me, here's a picture of stupid freezer bait being stupid. Never have I known a bird to do something this idiotic.

Ugh. Now I remember why, as a kid, I had to run to check on the chickens 3 times daily...not the regular heritage breeds (I esp love me some Orps or Speckled Sussex), just the CxRs...people are good at breeding things that really shouldn't exist.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1342 on: May 13, 2016, 06:36:49 PM »
Sorry to continue with this derailment, but I just had to add to your poultry comment. My mom has chickens and about two years ago we rescued a chicken who fell off the back of a truck (a large chicken hauling truck). The chicken was the same size/slightly larger than our other chickens, so we assumed she was full grown. Nope, turns out they take them to slaughter at 6-8 weeks old. They spend all their lives under lights, and as anyone who has chickens knows, they go into that deep sleep/trance at night and don't move once it's dark. This chicken had no idea how to sleep. She spent two nights walking around the coop looking at all the other sleeping chickens.  Everyone told us she would probably live to be about 6 months old and then either her legs would break or her heart would explode. Sure enough, 5 months later, we came out and she was dead in the coop. She was a nice little chicken though.

Just my two cents on the mass-produced chicken variety.

Ah, the Cornish Rock cross. Those are some confused, messed-up birds. I raised some a few years back and they are the stupidest creatures on this green earth. My other featherbabies were alert, clever chickens who ran about and were interested in their surroundings. The Cornish pretty much lived to eat and poop. They had little to no brain activity and were so stupid that I had to separate them from the other chicks the same age so they wouldn't get picked on despite being twice the size of the normal chickens. In fact one of them got trapped in a feeder. Besides being oversized, prone to ascites and heart problems due to having been bred to maximize growth, they're catastrophically stupid. I actually didn't feel bad about killing them since I regarded it as a way to put them out of their misery.

In case you don't believe me, here's a picture of stupid freezer bait being stupid. Never have I known a bird to do something this idiotic.

Ugh. Now I remember why, as a kid, I had to run to check on the chickens 3 times daily...not the regular heritage breeds (I esp love me some Orps or Speckled Sussex), just the CxRs...people are good at breeding things that really shouldn't exist.

This is why heritage-breed chickens are more pleasant and less maintenance. Slower to put on weight and therefore more expensive, but man, at least they can walk themselves out of a corner.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1343 on: May 14, 2016, 08:16:53 AM »
Is there such a thing as domesticated bison? 

Good question. Don't know. I was using the words "domesticated bison" to mean "captive bison who is unable to run away from you because of a fence".

Kaydedid

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1344 on: May 14, 2016, 06:06:18 PM »
Just found out BIL, who is an awesome person otherwise, buys a huge Starbucks frappacino...
EVERY. WEEKDAY. MORNING.
That's 20+ of them per month, at $7 or so...

$140+ per month on frappacinos.

There are no words.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1345 on: May 14, 2016, 09:36:12 PM »
Just found out BIL, who is an awesome person otherwise, buys a huge Starbucks frappacino...
EVERY. WEEKDAY. MORNING.
That's 20+ of them per month, at $7 or so...

$140+ per month on frappacinos.

There are no words.

Not very mustachian, but sounds yummy. Another downside, though, is the calories. Aren't frappucinos something like 500+ calories each?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1346 on: May 15, 2016, 05:32:28 AM »

Kaybee

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1347 on: May 15, 2016, 11:12:33 AM »
I'm not a super-Mustachian by any means but my parents are terrible with their finances.  My mother often comments on my clothing (nothing wrong with it, she just knows its thrifted) and tells me I need to "live more".  They love to roll their consumer debt into their mortgage so their credit cards are (momentarily) paid off.  They don't amswer phone calls because its always "the duct cleaners" (its not, I answered once while visiting, they're collection calls).

A few weeks ago, my dad -who has refused to discuss money with me because I "don't respect the choices he makes" - called and asked to borrow a bit of money "to move his investments".  A bit = $30k.  It was 6 am when he called me so I was groggy but explained I was confused why he would need money for that.  He then half-yelled he had debt to take care of but would pay me back in a few weeks.  I told him I was uncomfortable liquidating my investment portfolio to help with his debts and he snarled that I had "more time to make up any losses".

Super awkward.  I hate going going to visit (they live a plane ride away) because all my mom does is talk about the deals she's finding at the mall and my dad won't look me in the eye.  I had tried to broach the finance topic before this incident and was basically told I'd be disowned if I didn't drop the topic so...I'm just waiting for the shitstorm to hit them and see if I can be of help afterwards. :(
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1348 on: May 15, 2016, 11:20:16 AM »
I'm not a super-Mustachian by any means but my parents are terrible with their finances.  My mother often comments on my clothing (nothing wrong with it, she just knows its thrifted) and tells me I need to "live more".  They love to roll their consumer debt into their mortgage so their credit cards are (momentarily) paid off.  They don't amswer phone calls because its always "the duct cleaners" (its not, I answered once while visiting, they're collection calls).

A few weeks ago, my dad -who has refused to discuss money with me because I "don't respect the choices he makes" - called and asked to borrow a bit of money "to move his investments".  A bit = $30k.  It was 6 am when he called me so I was groggy but explained I was confused why he would need money for that.  He then half-yelled he had debt to take care of but would pay me back in a few weeks.  I told him I was uncomfortable liquidating my investment portfolio to help with his debts and he snarled that I had "more time to make up any losses".

Super awkward.  I hate going going to visit (they live a plane ride away) because all my mom does is talk about the deals she's finding at the mall and my dad won't look me in the eye.  I had tried to broach the finance topic before this incident and was basically told I'd be disowned if I didn't drop the topic so...I'm just waiting for the shitstorm to hit them and see if I can be of help afterwards. :(
Sounds like disowning might not be bad.  Don't provide economic outpatient care!

Kaybee

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1349 on: May 15, 2016, 11:32:52 AM »
I'm not a super-Mustachian by any means but my parents are terrible with their finances.  My mother often comments on my clothing (nothing wrong with it, she just knows its thrifted) and tells me I need to "live more".  They love to roll their consumer debt into their mortgage so their credit cards are (momentarily) paid off.  They don't amswer phone calls because its always "the duct cleaners" (its not, I answered once while visiting, they're collection calls).

A few weeks ago, my dad -who has refused to discuss money with me because I "don't respect the choices he makes" - called and asked to borrow a bit of money "to move his investments".  A bit = $30k.  It was 6 am when he called me so I was groggy but explained I was confused why he would need money for that.  He then half-yelled he had debt to take care of but would pay me back in a few weeks.  I told him I was uncomfortable liquidating my investment portfolio to help with his debts and he snarled that I had "more time to make up any losses".

Super awkward.  I hate going going to visit (they live a plane ride away) because all my mom does is talk about the deals she's finding at the mall and my dad won't look me in the eye.  I had tried to broach the finance topic before this incident and was basically told I'd be disowned if I didn't drop the topic so...I'm just waiting for the shitstorm to hit them and see if I can be of help afterwards. :(
Sounds like disowning might not be bad.  Don't provide economic outpatient care!

Thanks mm1970 I'll be honest, there was a lot of dysfunction and inappropriate "punishment" used while I was raised so there is no emotional attachment to my parents.  At this point, we exchange calls about once every 2 weeks to ensure everyone's alive and that's it.  My siblings aren't mustachian (my brother is actually quite reasonable though) but I have pretty strong bonds with them since I was largely responsible for raising them.  Nobody will get *my* money, when I say I will see how I can help, it basically means I will try to point them to resources and coach them as best I can.  I loaned my parents money once ($2k, about a year after school) and it took me almost 2 years to get half of that amount back.  I won't make that same mistake twice!

I think I turned out mostly okay though??
I'm late to the game but I'm trying to be quick to pick up how to play!!