Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 994244 times)

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1250 on: May 02, 2016, 03:57:53 PM »
Pet store dogs come from puppy mills so the puppy is likely to have tons of health problems. No reputable breeder will sell to a pet store. Ugh!

Threshkin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1251 on: May 02, 2016, 04:15:13 PM »
It must be. My Mom's family on both sides is from a small town above Boone. How do you pronounce Appalachian? We say it as App-uh-latch-un. If you say it as App-uh-lay-shun in front of my Mom she will flip out. Its kinda funny actually.

This made me laugh!  I never knew that was any other way to pronounce it except App-uh-latch-un.  I was born in VW but left there when I was 8.  Some things just stick I guess.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1252 on: May 02, 2016, 04:18:17 PM »
It must be. My Mom's family on both sides is from a small town above Boone. How do you pronounce Appalachian? We say it as App-uh-latch-un. If you say it as App-uh-lay-shun in front of my Mom she will flip out. Its kinda funny actually.

This made me laugh!  I never knew that was any other way to pronounce it except App-uh-latch-un.  I was born in VW but left there when I was 8.  Some things just stick I guess.

You lived in a Volkswagon for 8 years?  Hope it was at least a van and not a bug.

Silverwood

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1253 on: May 02, 2016, 04:29:22 PM »
It must be. My Mom's family on both sides is from a small town above Boone. How do you pronounce Appalachian? We say it as App-uh-latch-un. If you say it as App-uh-lay-shun in front of my Mom she will flip out. Its kinda funny actually.

This made me laugh!  I never knew that was any other way to pronounce it except App-uh-latch-un.  I was born in VW but left there when I was 8.  Some things just stick I guess.

Lol never knew I was saying it wrong until now.

Lately it's my coworkers that have me shaking my head. I've gotten to the point of just smiling and nodding. 

 With family tho, I try to point out how much they currently save per month. So if you're stressed out now how do you think you'll feel when you're in a bigger house, or a more expensive car or have more pets/kids etc. And then I point out the upkeep.  Like bigger houses mean bigger repair bills.  If you want to ignore me, cool, but I'm not about to listen to you bitch about it later.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1254 on: May 02, 2016, 05:37:21 PM »
It must be. My Mom's family on both sides is from a small town above Boone. How do you pronounce Appalachian? We say it as App-uh-latch-un. If you say it as App-uh-lay-shun in front of my Mom she will flip out. Its kinda funny actually.

This made me laugh!  I never knew that was any other way to pronounce it except App-uh-latch-un.  I was born in VW but left there when I was 8.  Some things just stick I guess.

You lived in a Volkswagon for 8 years?  Hope it was at least a van and not a bug.

LOL, good one, dandarc!

Threshkin and AmandaS1989, in New England, where the mountain chain ends, it's pronounced the other way -- App-uh-lay-shun.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En-us-Appalachian.ogg

Pooperman

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1255 on: May 02, 2016, 06:40:54 PM »
It must be. My Mom's family on both sides is from a small town above Boone. How do you pronounce Appalachian? We say it as App-uh-latch-un. If you say it as App-uh-lay-shun in front of my Mom she will flip out. Its kinda funny actually.

This made me laugh!  I never knew that was any other way to pronounce it except App-uh-latch-un.  I was born in VW but left there when I was 8.  Some things just stick I guess.

You lived in a Volkswagon for 8 years?  Hope it was at least a van and not a bug.

LOL, good one, dandarc!

Threshkin and AmandaS1989, in New England, where the mountain chain ends, it's pronounced the other way -- App-uh-lay-shun.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En-us-Appalachian.ogg

I pronounce it somewhere in the middle (maybe because I grew up in the middle?). App-uh-lay-chun.

Rural

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1256 on: May 02, 2016, 06:52:00 PM »
It must be. My Mom's family on both sides is from a small town above Boone. How do you pronounce Appalachian? We say it as App-uh-latch-un. If you say it as App-uh-lay-shun in front of my Mom she will flip out. Its kinda funny actually.

This made me laugh!  I never knew that was any other way to pronounce it except App-uh-latch-un.  I was born in VW but left there when I was 8.  Some things just stick I guess.

You lived in a Volkswagon for 8 years?  Hope it was at least a van and not a bug.

LOL, good one, dandarc!

Threshkin and AmandaS1989, in New England, where the mountain chain ends, it's pronounced the other way -- App-uh-lay-shun.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En-us-Appalachian.ogg


Yes, but the northern end of the mountain chain says it wrong. :)

AmandaS1989

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1257 on: May 02, 2016, 07:31:19 PM »
Indeed they do Rural ;)
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Apples

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1258 on: May 03, 2016, 08:19:56 AM »
It must be. My Mom's family on both sides is from a small town above Boone. How do you pronounce Appalachian? We say it as App-uh-latch-un. If you say it as App-uh-lay-shun in front of my Mom she will flip out. Its kinda funny actually.

This made me laugh!  I never knew that was any other way to pronounce it except App-uh-latch-un.  I was born in VW but left there when I was 8.  Some things just stick I guess.

You lived in a Volkswagon for 8 years?  Hope it was at least a van and not a bug.

LOL, good one, dandarc!

Threshkin and AmandaS1989, in New England, where the mountain chain ends, it's pronounced the other way -- App-uh-lay-shun.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En-us-Appalachian.ogg


Yes, but the northern end of the mountain chain says it wrong. :)

I'm from the northern end of the mountain chain and pronounce it with a lay-shun.  I didn't even know there was another way to pronounce it until a certain Big Ten school lost to Appa-latch-un State a few years back.  Man, that was a fun game. 

Threshkin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1259 on: May 03, 2016, 09:30:50 AM »
It must be. My Mom's family on both sides is from a small town above Boone. How do you pronounce Appalachian? We say it as App-uh-latch-un. If you say it as App-uh-lay-shun in front of my Mom she will flip out. Its kinda funny actually.

This made me laugh!  I never knew that was any other way to pronounce it except App-uh-latch-un.  I was born in VW but left there when I was 8.  Some things just stick I guess.

You lived in a Volkswagon for 8 years?  Hope it was at least a van and not a bug.

LOL, good one, dandarc!

Threshkin and AmandaS1989, in New England, where the mountain chain ends, it's pronounced the other way -- App-uh-lay-shun.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En-us-Appalachian.ogg

Cracking myself up over the VW typo!
I lived in New England (West Central CT) for 10 years after leaving WV.  I always used App-uh-latch-un. 

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1260 on: May 03, 2016, 09:41:50 AM »
I know a pair of brothers who are partners in a (successful) business.  I told them of my ER aspirations.  They didn't get the motivation at all--"what are you going to do"-type questions.

The thing is, neither of them seem to have much in the way of hobbies or outside interests, at least as far as I can tell.  Between running the business and their large families, they're pretty busy.  I, on the other hand, have waaaaay more interests than I have time (or money) for.  And ER will give me the time I want/need to pursue those hobbies.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1261 on: May 03, 2016, 09:56:21 AM »
I know a pair of brothers who are partners in a (successful) business.  I told them of my ER aspirations.  They didn't get the motivation at all--"what are you going to do"-type questions.

The thing is, neither of them seem to have much in the way of hobbies or outside interests, at least as far as I can tell.  Between running the business and their large families, they're pretty busy.  I, on the other hand, have waaaaay more interests than I have time (or money) for.  And ER will give me the time I want/need to pursue those hobbies.

I don't understand those questions at all. I have a long list of things that I barely do because I want to do all of them. Most are not expensive either. So lets see... What will I do?

Play golf, hockey, and maybe baseball/softball. Ref hockey (making money!) and maybe caddy (more money?). Learn to roll sushi, dance, and mountain climb. Walk the Camino de Santiago and maybe the Appalachian trail. Climb Mt. Kilimanjaro. See Poland, Germany, Austria, Ireland, London, Scotland, Prague, and Italy. Read a book a week, or more. Substitute teach, go fishing, coach a hockey team or baseball team. Volunteer for an organization. Re-learn how to water ski. Take an epic canoe trip in Quetico. See all major league ballparks. Go to a hockey game in Boston, Montreal, Toronto, New York, and Detroit. See my family across the country. Get a bunch of dogs.

I don’t know how people go to work to fill their day. Just seems insane to me.

NESailor

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1262 on: May 03, 2016, 10:21:42 AM »
I know a pair of brothers who are partners in a (successful) business.  I told them of my ER aspirations.  They didn't get the motivation at all--"what are you going to do"-type questions.

The thing is, neither of them seem to have much in the way of hobbies or outside interests, at least as far as I can tell.  Between running the business and their large families, they're pretty busy.  I, on the other hand, have waaaaay more interests than I have time (or money) for.  And ER will give me the time I want/need to pursue those hobbies.

I don't understand those questions at all. I have a long list of things that I barely do because I want to do all of them. Most are not expensive either. So lets see... What will I do?

Play golf, hockey, and maybe baseball/softball. Ref hockey (making money!) and maybe caddy (more money?). Learn to roll sushi, dance, and mountain climb. Walk the Camino de Santiago and maybe the Appalachian trail. Climb Mt. Kilimanjaro. See Poland, Germany, Austria, Ireland, London, Scotland, Prague, and Italy. Read a book a week, or more. Substitute teach, go fishing, coach a hockey team or baseball team. Volunteer for an organization. Re-learn how to water ski. Take an epic canoe trip in Quetico. See all major league ballparks. Go to a hockey game in Boston, Montreal, Toronto, New York, and Detroit. See my family across the country. Get a bunch of dogs.

I don’t know how people go to work to fill their day. Just seems insane to me.

right there with you guys.  I stay up late or wake up early so I can get a few extra minutes to goof around with my hobbies before the family is awake...ride my bike on a trainer because it beats not riding at all.  Or read a book, or do graphs in Excel, fix something on the house, turn over the soil in the garden, talk to my tomato plants, drink coffee on the deck in peace and quiet, work on one of our boats...whatever.  I'm currently trying to figure out if I can somehow bring tools to work so I can rebuild a vintage french 5speed freewheel on my lunchbreak without making too much of a mess in my white-collar office.  Work constantly gets in the way of me enjoying family and hobbies to the full extent that I would like.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1263 on: May 03, 2016, 12:01:55 PM »
I know a pair of brothers who are partners in a (successful) business.  I told them of my ER aspirations.  They didn't get the motivation at all--"what are you going to do"-type questions.

Yeah I can understand that question. I still don't know what I will do once I hit FIRE besides travel. My current plan is to just live frugally and save up and invest it and think more about post-FIRE plans. When I'm close to hitting FIRE I'll need to assess how long I want to work and plan accordingly, and once I hit it I plan on traveling. I haven't been traveling much due to work, so definitely want to make up on lost time. After that I'll see, I would like to continue working in some capacity and like MMM's idea of working only in jobs that you would love doing if they didn't pay you.

That's great that you have siblings that you can confide in this. My sister is of the ,"No, don't even think about it, it's unfair and you'll be WAY TOO YOUNG," school of thought. My brother likely would just say 'cool' and then move on to something else, which I feel like is the proper attitude to have.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1264 on: May 03, 2016, 12:37:38 PM »
I know a pair of brothers who are partners in a (successful) business.  I told them of my ER aspirations.  They didn't get the motivation at all--"what are you going to do"-type questions.

The thing is, neither of them seem to have much in the way of hobbies or outside interests, at least as far as I can tell.  Between running the business and their large families, they're pretty busy.  I, on the other hand, have waaaaay more interests than I have time (or money) for.  And ER will give me the time I want/need to pursue those hobbies.

I don't understand those questions at all. I have a long list of things that I barely do because I want to do all of them. Most are not expensive either. So lets see... What will I do?

Play golf, hockey, and maybe baseball/softball. Ref hockey (making money!) and maybe caddy (more money?). Learn to roll sushi, dance, and mountain climb. Walk the Camino de Santiago and maybe the Appalachian trail. Climb Mt. Kilimanjaro. See Poland, Germany, Austria, Ireland, London, Scotland, Prague, and Italy. Read a book a week, or more. Substitute teach, go fishing, coach a hockey team or baseball team. Volunteer for an organization. Re-learn how to water ski. Take an epic canoe trip in Quetico. See all major league ballparks. Go to a hockey game in Boston, Montreal, Toronto, New York, and Detroit. See my family across the country. Get a bunch of dogs.
Exactly!  I have a similarly-long list.  I know that they *do* enjoy their jobs, but I also know that their jobs are stressful.  Personally, I also enjoy my job, but I think I would enjoy doing the same tasks more if I weren't under stress from schedule or having to get a product on the market.

maco

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1265 on: May 03, 2016, 12:44:29 PM »
I know a pair of brothers who are partners in a (successful) business.  I told them of my ER aspirations.  They didn't get the motivation at all--"what are you going to do"-type questions.

The thing is, neither of them seem to have much in the way of hobbies or outside interests, at least as far as I can tell.  Between running the business and their large families, they're pretty busy.  I, on the other hand, have waaaaay more interests than I have time (or money) for.  And ER will give me the time I want/need to pursue those hobbies.

I don't understand those questions at all. I have a long list of things that I barely do because I want to do all of them. Most are not expensive either. So lets see... What will I do?

Play golf, hockey, and maybe baseball/softball. Ref hockey (making money!) and maybe caddy (more money?). Learn to roll sushi, dance, and mountain climb. Walk the Camino de Santiago and maybe the Appalachian trail. Climb Mt. Kilimanjaro. See Poland, Germany, Austria, Ireland, London, Scotland, Prague, and Italy. Read a book a week, or more. Substitute teach, go fishing, coach a hockey team or baseball team. Volunteer for an organization. Re-learn how to water ski. Take an epic canoe trip in Quetico. See all major league ballparks. Go to a hockey game in Boston, Montreal, Toronto, New York, and Detroit. See my family across the country. Get a bunch of dogs.
Exactly!  I have a similarly-long list.  I know that they *do* enjoy their jobs, but I also know that their jobs are stressful.  Personally, I also enjoy my job, but I think I would enjoy doing the same tasks more if I weren't under stress from schedule or having to get a product on the market.
I usually go with "be an artist." Like "I'm working on getting to the point that I can quit my day job and just make art."

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1266 on: May 03, 2016, 01:10:10 PM »
Learn to roll sushi

That isn't too hard to do, though of course I don't know expert me and my friends are. I just hosted a sushi on Friday, it was fun and I liked that there were a few people that hadn't done it before so they got a chance to learn.

Key thing is to make sure you've got a reputable fishmonger in your area that you can get good quality fish from. I'm fortunate in that the best fishmonger in the Twin Cities is only a few blocks from my office so I can pick up whatever I want from them.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1267 on: May 03, 2016, 01:23:53 PM »
Key thing is to make sure you've got a reputable fishmonger in your area that you can get good quality fish from. I'm fortunate in that the best fishmonger in the Twin Cities is only a few blocks from my office so I can pick up whatever I want from them.

And if one simply doesn't exist, a little research into frozen fillets goes a long way.  Just don't buy "fresh" from big grocery stores even if they "just got it in today".

exterous

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1268 on: May 04, 2016, 05:34:31 AM »
I know that they *do* enjoy their jobs, but I also know that their jobs are stressful.  Personally, I also enjoy my job, but I think I would enjoy doing the same tasks more if I weren't under stress from schedule or having to get a product on the market.

I've been reading a few books about retirement and post-retirement and a couple have mentioned that some people like stress. One went on to compare a few case studies where people who noted they liked their stressful job had happier retirements if they found more stressful retirement activities than those who had more relaxing activities. One example was an insurance exec who retired and felt lost until he bought a ranch and started dealing with deadlines, requirements and other stressors like fickle weather

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1269 on: May 04, 2016, 06:53:55 AM »
I know that they *do* enjoy their jobs, but I also know that their jobs are stressful.  Personally, I also enjoy my job, but I think I would enjoy doing the same tasks more if I weren't under stress from schedule or having to get a product on the market.

I've been reading a few books about retirement and post-retirement and a couple have mentioned that some people like stress. One went on to compare a few case studies where people who noted they liked their stressful job had happier retirements if they found more stressful retirement activities than those who had more relaxing activities. One example was an insurance exec who retired and felt lost until he bought a ranch and started dealing with deadlines, requirements and other stressors like fickle weather

This is why I always laugh when people say they want a farm/homestead as a 'relaxing retirement activity'.

Like, guys. I have a huge garden, and animals, and we're expanding (we only built the house last year!). It's hard work! It's work I enjoy doing, which makes a difference, but it's not relaxing swanning around checking if the chickens have laid eggs in a perfectly-groomed chicken coop, y'know? HARD WORK.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1270 on: May 04, 2016, 07:03:54 AM »
I know that they *do* enjoy their jobs, but I also know that their jobs are stressful.  Personally, I also enjoy my job, but I think I would enjoy doing the same tasks more if I weren't under stress from schedule or having to get a product on the market.

I've been reading a few books about retirement and post-retirement and a couple have mentioned that some people like stress. One went on to compare a few case studies where people who noted they liked their stressful job had happier retirements if they found more stressful retirement activities than those who had more relaxing activities. One example was an insurance exec who retired and felt lost until he bought a ranch and started dealing with deadlines, requirements and other stressors like fickle weather

This is why I always laugh when people say they want a farm/homestead as a 'relaxing retirement activity'.

Like, guys. I have a huge garden, and animals, and we're expanding (we only built the house last year!). It's hard work! It's work I enjoy doing, which makes a difference, but it's not relaxing swanning around checking if the chickens have laid eggs in a perfectly-groomed chicken coop, y'know? HARD WORK.

I have such townie homestead dreams, but this is why my husband and I have agreed on no animals. If you have plants then you can always put off pruning, weeding or even harvesting until tomorrow. Sure it might be suboptimal and the plant might even die, but hey it's a plant and this is a hobby not subsistence farming. But you can't just not feed the animals today because it's raining. It's a wrench because I totally have wild unrealistic yearnings to raise pigs and potter round feeding the chickens, but in all honesty I don't want that daily responsibility. But a few tomato plants conk out because I couldn't be bothered to water them sooner? Hey ho, never mind.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1271 on: May 04, 2016, 07:31:39 AM »
I know that they *do* enjoy their jobs, but I also know that their jobs are stressful.  Personally, I also enjoy my job, but I think I would enjoy doing the same tasks more if I weren't under stress from schedule or having to get a product on the market.

I've been reading a few books about retirement and post-retirement and a couple have mentioned that some people like stress. One went on to compare a few case studies where people who noted they liked their stressful job had happier retirements if they found more stressful retirement activities than those who had more relaxing activities. One example was an insurance exec who retired and felt lost until he bought a ranch and started dealing with deadlines, requirements and other stressors like fickle weather

This is why I always laugh when people say they want a farm/homestead as a 'relaxing retirement activity'.

Like, guys. I have a huge garden, and animals, and we're expanding (we only built the house last year!). It's hard work! It's work I enjoy doing, which makes a difference, but it's not relaxing swanning around checking if the chickens have laid eggs in a perfectly-groomed chicken coop, y'know? HARD WORK.

I have such townie homestead dreams, but this is why my husband and I have agreed on no animals. If you have plants then you can always put off pruning, weeding or even harvesting until tomorrow. Sure it might be suboptimal and the plant might even die, but hey it's a plant and this is a hobby not subsistence farming. But you can't just not feed the animals today because it's raining. It's a wrench because I totally have wild unrealistic yearnings to raise pigs and potter round feeding the chickens, but in all honesty I don't want that daily responsibility. But a few tomato plants conk out because I couldn't be bothered to water them sooner? Hey ho, never mind.

Chickens are probably easier than you think, just to make your pipe dreams last a little longer.  We only have four, and raising them from chicks / getting a good coop were the hardest parts.  Now that they're grown up, we give them a ceramic heat lamp in the winter so they don't freeze, make sure their food and water is full in the morning, use the deep bedding method (you just add more bedding every week for about a month, instead of cleaning out the coop - keeps them warmer, saves you time and bedding), and feed them veggie scraps and let them roam around our yard when we're home.

Actually, reading that you have a garden, keeping them out of the garden is the hard part.  We have bird netting around our entire garden to keep them out.  They will DESTROY anything you've got going once they can reach it.  They ate/scratched up our whole 4x4 foot bed of lettuce and snap peas in about 10 minutes once.  That was pretty lame.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1272 on: May 04, 2016, 08:27:41 AM »
I know that they *do* enjoy their jobs, but I also know that their jobs are stressful.  Personally, I also enjoy my job, but I think I would enjoy doing the same tasks more if I weren't under stress from schedule or having to get a product on the market.

I've been reading a few books about retirement and post-retirement and a couple have mentioned that some people like stress. One went on to compare a few case studies where people who noted they liked their stressful job had happier retirements if they found more stressful retirement activities than those who had more relaxing activities. One example was an insurance exec who retired and felt lost until he bought a ranch and started dealing with deadlines, requirements and other stressors like fickle weather

This is why I always laugh when people say they want a farm/homestead as a 'relaxing retirement activity'.

Like, guys. I have a huge garden, and animals, and we're expanding (we only built the house last year!). It's hard work! It's work I enjoy doing, which makes a difference, but it's not relaxing swanning around checking if the chickens have laid eggs in a perfectly-groomed chicken coop, y'know? HARD WORK.

I have such townie homestead dreams, but this is why my husband and I have agreed on no animals. If you have plants then you can always put off pruning, weeding or even harvesting until tomorrow. Sure it might be suboptimal and the plant might even die, but hey it's a plant and this is a hobby not subsistence farming. But you can't just not feed the animals today because it's raining. It's a wrench because I totally have wild unrealistic yearnings to raise pigs and potter round feeding the chickens, but in all honesty I don't want that daily responsibility. But a few tomato plants conk out because I couldn't be bothered to water them sooner? Hey ho, never mind.

Chickens are probably easier than you think, just to make your pipe dreams last a little longer.  We only have four, and raising them from chicks / getting a good coop were the hardest parts.  Now that they're grown up, we give them a ceramic heat lamp in the winter so they don't freeze, make sure their food and water is full in the morning, use the deep bedding method (you just add more bedding every week for about a month, instead of cleaning out the coop - keeps them warmer, saves you time and bedding), and feed them veggie scraps and let them roam around our yard when we're home.

Actually, reading that you have a garden, keeping them out of the garden is the hard part.  We have bird netting around our entire garden to keep them out.  They will DESTROY anything you've got going once they can reach it.  They ate/scratched up our whole 4x4 foot bed of lettuce and snap peas in about 10 minutes once.  That was pretty lame.

Chickens aren't that hard, assuming you're willing to feed them daily, teach them to get into the coop at night and ALWAYS lock it up (owls, coyotes, weasels, etc = no more chickens), remove the eggs promptly (a chicken that learns to eat their eggs is a HUGE PAIN), actually shovel out that deep bedding every so often (not that frequently, but it's a hell of a gross job when you gotta do it)... Like, none of that is particularly hard, but it's at least a bit of attention every single day, plus a half-day here and there.

Geese are MEAN. Like, the farmers we know have a pet dog and a guard goose, and the goose will chase people out of the barn.

Ducks are fantastic, tasty (ahem), make very strong-tasting eggs (depending on your tastes, that can be positive or negative), and make a gigantic mess in man-made ponds. If you've got a decent-sized pond, though, they seem to be a good option -we have one out back, so we're considering them, maybe in a year or two.

Goats are great but need milking and escape EVERYWHERE and climb EVERYTHING.

The easiest, IMO, is lambs. As in, you buy male lambs in the spring (ours are arrving in about 2 weeks, once there's no risk of frost and they're old enough to leave their mothers). You need a lean-to (closed on 2-3 sides to provide basic shelter from sun/wind/rain, but that's about it), water access (a hose in a bucket can work), occasional grain as treats, and a fenced-in area with enough grass to graze (movable electric fence is best/easiest/most convenient, since that means you can shift the size of the pasture as needed). Drop the lambs in there, ensure that they have enough water, mow if the grass starts getting too high (they feed better on the newer grass, so...) and then take them to the butcher's in the fall (and empty out the poo that's in the lean-to. Put it in a pile, cover with black plastic garden tarp, let compost over winter, plant squash/pumpkin/succhini/melon seeds into it the next year by piercing holes in the plastic. Guaranteed amazing harvest). Downside, of course, is that you're then buying lambs every year, but upside is that you avoid the huge hassle of overwintering. Between the cost of the lambs and the cost of the butcher, the meat works out to about 8$CAD/lb for organic, local, grass-fed, etc...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 08:34:00 AM by Kitsune »

chaskavitch

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1273 on: May 04, 2016, 10:11:15 AM »
I know that they *do* enjoy their jobs, but I also know that their jobs are stressful.  Personally, I also enjoy my job, but I think I would enjoy doing the same tasks more if I weren't under stress from schedule or having to get a product on the market.

I've been reading a few books about retirement and post-retirement and a couple have mentioned that some people like stress. One went on to compare a few case studies where people who noted they liked their stressful job had happier retirements if they found more stressful retirement activities than those who had more relaxing activities. One example was an insurance exec who retired and felt lost until he bought a ranch and started dealing with deadlines, requirements and other stressors like fickle weather

This is why I always laugh when people say they want a farm/homestead as a 'relaxing retirement activity'.

Like, guys. I have a huge garden, and animals, and we're expanding (we only built the house last year!). It's hard work! It's work I enjoy doing, which makes a difference, but it's not relaxing swanning around checking if the chickens have laid eggs in a perfectly-groomed chicken coop, y'know? HARD WORK.

I have such townie homestead dreams, but this is why my husband and I have agreed on no animals. If you have plants then you can always put off pruning, weeding or even harvesting until tomorrow. Sure it might be suboptimal and the plant might even die, but hey it's a plant and this is a hobby not subsistence farming. But you can't just not feed the animals today because it's raining. It's a wrench because I totally have wild unrealistic yearnings to raise pigs and potter round feeding the chickens, but in all honesty I don't want that daily responsibility. But a few tomato plants conk out because I couldn't be bothered to water them sooner? Hey ho, never mind.

Chickens are probably easier than you think, just to make your pipe dreams last a little longer.  We only have four, and raising them from chicks / getting a good coop were the hardest parts.  Now that they're grown up, we give them a ceramic heat lamp in the winter so they don't freeze, make sure their food and water is full in the morning, use the deep bedding method (you just add more bedding every week for about a month, instead of cleaning out the coop - keeps them warmer, saves you time and bedding), and feed them veggie scraps and let them roam around our yard when we're home.

Actually, reading that you have a garden, keeping them out of the garden is the hard part.  We have bird netting around our entire garden to keep them out.  They will DESTROY anything you've got going once they can reach it.  They ate/scratched up our whole 4x4 foot bed of lettuce and snap peas in about 10 minutes once.  That was pretty lame.

Chickens aren't that hard, assuming you're willing to feed them daily, teach them to get into the coop at night and ALWAYS lock it up (owls, coyotes, weasels, etc = no more chickens), remove the eggs promptly (a chicken that learns to eat their eggs is a HUGE PAIN), actually shovel out that deep bedding every so often (not that frequently, but it's a hell of a gross job when you gotta do it)... Like, none of that is particularly hard, but it's at least a bit of attention every single day, plus a half-day here and there.

The easiest, IMO, is lambs. As in, you buy male lambs in the spring (ours are arrving in about 2 weeks, once there's no risk of frost and they're old enough to leave their mothers). You need a lean-to (closed on 2-3 sides to provide basic shelter from sun/wind/rain, but that's about it), water access (a hose in a bucket can work), occasional grain as treats, and a fenced-in area with enough grass to graze (movable electric fence is best/easiest/most convenient, since that means you can shift the size of the pasture as needed). Drop the lambs in there, ensure that they have enough water, mow if the grass starts getting too high (they feed better on the newer grass, so...) and then take them to the butcher's in the fall (and empty out the poo that's in the lean-to. Put it in a pile, cover with black plastic garden tarp, let compost over winter, plant squash/pumpkin/succhini/melon seeds into it the next year by piercing holes in the plastic. Guaranteed amazing harvest). Downside, of course, is that you're then buying lambs every year, but upside is that you avoid the huge hassle of overwintering. Between the cost of the lambs and the cost of the butcher, the meat works out to about 8$CAD/lb for organic, local, grass-fed, etc...

It did take our chickens like 2 weeks to figure out they were supposed to go into the coop at night.  They would just sit there next to the door of the run and stare at our flashlight.  They get SO DUMB after dark.   And we did have a problem with some serious pecking, but (and I know they look weird - definitely look them up for a laugh) using Pinless Peepers completely solved that.  Maybe chickens aren't ridiculously easy, but I still think they're easier than a dog, especially if you're a cat person.  And their food is super cheap :)  However, they also poop on everything.  Ew.

My only problem with most other "farm" animals is slaughter.  I'm totally willing to buy local, grass-fed beef or lamb or pork, but I don't know if I could deal with raising something and then killing and eating it.  Once I think it is cute, it is game over.   Maybe we can raise our kids to be ok with that, and they'll be one up on me.  I think I'd like our next venture to be honey bees, although I suppose first I have to figure out how to raise a child, since that's pending this month.  Bees might have to wait quite a while.

faithless

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1274 on: May 04, 2016, 03:40:45 PM »
And we did have a problem with some serious pecking, but (and I know they look weird - definitely look them up for a laugh) using Pinless Peepers completely solved that. 

This actually made me snort out loud, thanks!

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1275 on: May 04, 2016, 04:14:29 PM »
My FIL always had about 4 cattle and then they would butcher and give everyone some meat.  He was always taking the kids down to visit the cows and they loved it. He asked me why I never went and I said I wasn't going to look something in the eye that I was eating in the future. The kids did not know that was what they were eating.

Dezrah

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1276 on: May 04, 2016, 05:08:40 PM »
My FIL always had about 4 cattle and then they would butcher and give everyone some meat.  He was always taking the kids down to visit the cows and they loved it. He asked me why I never went and I said I wasn't going to look something in the eye that I was eating in the future. The kids did not know that was what they were eating.

We had a family acquaintance who would label her beef in the freezer by the name of the cow it came from, cows they raised personally, that way she knew how old it was. "I guess we should finish off the Daisy steaks before we move on to Missy."

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1277 on: May 04, 2016, 05:25:25 PM »
My FIL always had about 4 cattle and then they would butcher and give everyone some meat.  He was always taking the kids down to visit the cows and they loved it. He asked me why I never went and I said I wasn't going to look something in the eye that I was eating in the future. The kids did not know that was what they were eating.

We had a family acquaintance who would label her beef in the freezer by the name of the cow it came from, cows they raised personally, that way she knew how old it was. "I guess we should finish off the Daisy steaks before we move on to Missy."

That's cute! I rarely have more than one cow in my freezer, but that's as good a way to keep it straight as any.
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1278 on: May 04, 2016, 05:49:28 PM »
And we did have a problem with some serious pecking, but (and I know they look weird - definitely look them up for a laugh) using Pinless Peepers completely solved that. 

This actually made me snort out loud, thanks!

I didn't think chickens could look any dumber.

Kenbo

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1279 on: May 04, 2016, 09:18:48 PM »
I just read omnivore's dilemma so that information is still bubbling in my head.  I'm from the midwest and a hunter and a fisherman so I frequently look the animals in the eyes that become my food.  I think that's something we miss these days is respecting and acknowledging where our food comes from. 

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1280 on: May 05, 2016, 07:50:43 AM »
This. I had a hard time, at first, with eating things that are 'cute'. But, erm... look at slaughterhouse videos, and tell me that you're more comfortable with promoting the use of that than raising an animal well, and then finding a butcher and butchering ethically. Or, I guess, turn to veganism, which isn't a great option, long-term, IMO.

(Personal stance on this: vegetarianism is ONLY sustainable in an omnivorous society where other people are willing to take on the burden of killing/eating the male animals, as well as the female animals who are no longer productive. Veganism is, in turn, only doable in a society that relies on something other than manure for fertilizers - usually excessive tilling and petrochemicals, which isn't particularly sustainable. Or, I guess, a willingness to keep animals ONLY for manure and not rely on anything else they're producing, which... good luck finding the money for that... )

We do have to make a very, very careful distinction between which animals are 'pets' (and you can get attached to) and which ones are 'food' (and sometimes that means that one goat is a pet and another is a milk goat who will eventually be slaughtered). Help your kids name the animals something like 'chicken dinner', or 'drumstick', or something that makes it CLEAR. Teach your kids where food comes from, and that it's important to give animals a good life and a clean death. A piece of ill-treated meat on a styrofoam tray doesn't solve the issue, it just means that other people deal with it for you.

If you honestly, genuinely can't deal with killing chickens, no judgement! BUT THEN DON'T GET CHICKENS. Every year, I see people around here trying to give away 4-year-old egg-laying chickens 'to a good home' because they've ceased to be productive egg-layers. You know what a good home is for a chicken that has ceased to lay eggs? A SOUP POT. If you can't face that, get to know local farmers who treat their animals well and buy directly from them... Better for the animals than CAFOs, and usually significantly cheaper.

onlykelsey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1281 on: May 05, 2016, 08:09:18 AM »
(Personal stance on this: vegetarianism is ONLY sustainable in an omnivorous society where other people are willing to take on the burden of killing/eating the male animals, as well as the female animals who are no longer productive. Veganism is, in turn, only doable in a society that relies on something other than manure for fertilizers - usually excessive tilling and petrochemicals, which isn't particularly sustainable. Or, I guess, a willingness to keep animals ONLY for manure and not rely on anything else they're producing, which... good luck finding the money for that... )

That's an interesting point.  I'm not sure the dependence of vegetarians on omnivores is quite that relevant, at least until we have a overwhelming majority vegetarian society, but it's interesting.  I'm not sure the veganism point stands, because so much manure comes from animals fed on grain that was heavily dependent on petrochemicals anyway.  I don't know how much of the demand for nitrate fertilizers or manure comes only from vegetables.

I have always been confused by people who are vegetarian or vegan but who keep omnivorous dogs or near carnivorous cats.  My dog eats ~480 lbs of food in a year, probably half of it by weight is meat.  Over his life he'll eat, say, two tons of meat, or three steer post-processing (they're ~2/3 meat, if you eat pretty much everything, right?).  If you're worried only about minimizing animals slaughtered, it would probably be more humane to put dogs down and decrease the demand.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1282 on: May 05, 2016, 08:28:51 AM »
I just read omnivore's dilemma so that information is still bubbling in my head.  I'm from the midwest and a hunter and a fisherman so I frequently look the animals in the eyes that become my food.  I think that's something we miss these days is respecting and acknowledging where our food comes from.

Yes.

Dezrah

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1283 on: May 05, 2016, 09:02:47 AM »
Thomas More's Utopia relegated the duty of slaughtering and butchering of animals to criminals and malcontents.  He believed the act of killing was degrading emotionally and spiritually.  I'm not making any point other than showing that our (obviously contradictory) discomfort with killing animals even as we enjoy eating/wearing them has a long historical and literary tradition.

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic. 

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1284 on: May 05, 2016, 09:28:10 AM »

If you honestly, genuinely can't deal with killing chickens, no judgement! BUT THEN DON'T GET CHICKENS. Every year, I see people around here trying to give away 4-year-old egg-laying chickens 'to a good home' because they've ceased to be productive egg-layers. You know what a good home is for a chicken that has ceased to lay eggs? A SOUP POT.

So you're saying that where you live people are giving away perfectly good 4 year old chickens? Sounds like a way to get some free meat.

maco

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1285 on: May 05, 2016, 10:08:17 AM »

If you honestly, genuinely can't deal with killing chickens, no judgement! BUT THEN DON'T GET CHICKENS. Every year, I see people around here trying to give away 4-year-old egg-laying chickens 'to a good home' because they've ceased to be productive egg-layers. You know what a good home is for a chicken that has ceased to lay eggs? A SOUP POT.

So you're saying that where you live people are giving away perfectly good 4 year old chickens? Sounds like a way to get some free meat.
I have a friend in a rural area, from a family that has pretty much always been rural poor. She's white. She's on some chicken-keeping Facebook groups and goes to backyard chicken meetups, and she's noticed something. There are a bunch of...for lack of a better summary, I'm going to say "white hipsters"... who are always trying to find someone to swap with to get rid of the chicks that have turned out to be roosters. They refuse to interact with the Latino folks at the meetups, because, as they whispered to her, "they'll just eat them!" Uh, yeah lady, that's....that's what you do with roosters.

Oh wait, I remembered her name for them: chicken kissers. The people who post Facebook photos of them kissing their chickens. Because it's not like chicken are known for carrying disease and vermin.

Also, I went pescatarian age 16, vegetarian at 18, and back to pescatarian at 26 (fish oil/omegas/doctor-said-so). But I did eat some rabbit, when it was raised by this friend. She raises food humanely and environmentally-friendly. Fine by me. The rabbit was received in trade for sweet potatoes I grew.

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 10:15:08 AM by maco »

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1286 on: May 05, 2016, 10:11:38 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney

NESailor

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1287 on: May 05, 2016, 10:39:55 AM »


If you honestly, genuinely can't deal with killing chickens, no judgement! BUT THEN DON'T GET CHICKENS. Every year, I see people around here trying to give away 4-year-old egg-laying chickens 'to a good home' because they've ceased to be productive egg-layers. You know what a good home is for a chicken that has ceased to lay eggs? A SOUP POT.

Hahaha, that's pretty hilarious.  I feel the same way.  My grandmother still keeps a lot of chickens, geese, rabbits and usually a pig or two.  I have never witnessed much of the killing since my mom was a softie but I did help butcher a few pigs as a kid/young adult.  I don't particularly enjoy the act of killing the animal but I will step up to do so when there is a need.  Either to eat or to deal with persistent pests (like that squirrel who is trying to chew its way into our barn after I've patched the holes 3 times or the groundhog who considers my fenced in garden area his dinner buffet).

chaskavitch

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1288 on: May 05, 2016, 01:34:40 PM »
This. I had a hard time, at first, with eating things that are 'cute'. But, erm... look at slaughterhouse videos, and tell me that you're more comfortable with promoting the use of that than raising an animal well, and then finding a butcher and butchering ethically. Or, I guess, turn to veganism, which isn't a great option, long-term, IMO.

(Personal stance on this: vegetarianism is ONLY sustainable in an omnivorous society where other people are willing to take on the burden of killing/eating the male animals, as well as the female animals who are no longer productive. Veganism is, in turn, only doable in a society that relies on something other than manure for fertilizers - usually excessive tilling and petrochemicals, which isn't particularly sustainable. Or, I guess, a willingness to keep animals ONLY for manure and not rely on anything else they're producing, which... good luck finding the money for that... )

We do have to make a very, very careful distinction between which animals are 'pets' (and you can get attached to) and which ones are 'food' (and sometimes that means that one goat is a pet and another is a milk goat who will eventually be slaughtered). Help your kids name the animals something like 'chicken dinner', or 'drumstick', or something that makes it CLEAR. Teach your kids where food comes from, and that it's important to give animals a good life and a clean death. A piece of ill-treated meat on a styrofoam tray doesn't solve the issue, it just means that other people deal with it for you.

If you honestly, genuinely can't deal with killing chickens, no judgement! BUT THEN DON'T GET CHICKENS. Every year, I see people around here trying to give away 4-year-old egg-laying chickens 'to a good home' because they've ceased to be productive egg-layers. You know what a good home is for a chicken that has ceased to lay eggs? A SOUP POT. If you can't face that, get to know local farmers who treat their animals well and buy directly from them... Better for the animals than CAFOs, and usually significantly cheaper.

This is totally reasonable.  I'm not sure what we'll do with our chickens once they stop laying, as they're only a year old and I haven't had to deal with that yet.  I'd love to know where all of my meat was coming from - we did buy a quarter of a cow this year from a local rancher, and it made me feel a little better about myself.  Realistically, though, I didn't grow up hunting or fishing or knowing people who owned farms.  I save worms from puddles when it rains, and take spiders outside in jars before DH can squish them (and yes, I know our chickens probably just eat both of these things, but it still makes me feel better).  It is going to take a LOT of change to get me to the point where I can slaughter my own animals. 

OTOH, I don't kiss my chickens.  I'm a microbiologist, so although I'm well aware that germs are everywhere and there's no avoiding them, that's just taking it too far.  Ew.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1289 on: May 05, 2016, 01:53:33 PM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
Same feelings as Dezrah and Maco.  Has anyone read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair?  I remember learning a little about it in American History class, but never got around to actually reading it.  http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Upton-Sinclair/dp/1503331865/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462477839&sr=8-1&keywords=the+jungle

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1290 on: May 05, 2016, 05:11:05 PM »

If you honestly, genuinely can't deal with killing chickens, no judgement! BUT THEN DON'T GET CHICKENS. Every year, I see people around here trying to give away 4-year-old egg-laying chickens 'to a good home' because they've ceased to be productive egg-layers. You know what a good home is for a chicken that has ceased to lay eggs? A SOUP POT.

So you're saying that where you live people are giving away perfectly good 4 year old chickens? Sounds like a way to get some free meat.
I have a friend in a rural area, from a family that has pretty much always been rural poor. She's white. She's on some chicken-keeping Facebook groups and goes to backyard chicken meetups, and she's noticed something. There are a bunch of...for lack of a better summary, I'm going to say "white hipsters"... who are always trying to find someone to swap with to get rid of the chicks that have turned out to be roosters. They refuse to interact with the Latino folks at the meetups, because, as they whispered to her, "they'll just eat them!" Uh, yeah lady, that's....that's what you do with roosters.

Oh wait, I remembered her name for them: chicken kissers. The people who post Facebook photos of them kissing their chickens. Because it's not like chicken are known for carrying disease and vermin.

I think my favorite was a woman who, September to November of last year, would post to every.single.board. (Kijiji, Craigslist. The works.) every day. Trying to find a good home for 5 pet roosters. She would very earnestly specify that they were NOT FOR MEAT.

Like, lady, I get that you bought your kids chicks at Easter, but they are now full-grown roosters... Coq au vin is basically what they're FOR, at this point.

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1291 on: May 05, 2016, 05:58:18 PM »
A relative was telling us today that we should buy a $1 million house because we could afford it. And that it would be good for us to do that because we could shelter so much of our income from taxes that way (via the mortgage interest deduction). And it's a good investment.

Of course, buying $4k-$5k a month in index funds instead of paying that out in interest and property tax could also be "a good investment", but not one that he could see.

accountingteacher

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1292 on: May 05, 2016, 08:10:30 PM »
There's no point in even arguing with them.
This is so therapeutic!

barbaz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1293 on: May 06, 2016, 02:43:26 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
If I had to personally fix my house, I'd be living in a cave. If I had to personally fix my plumbing, I'd be pooping in the forest. If I had to personally perform eye surgery, I'd be blind by now.

Luckily, I can pay people to do the tasks I suck at :-)

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1294 on: May 06, 2016, 07:14:33 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
If I had to personally fix my house, I'd be living in a cave. If I had to personally fix my plumbing, I'd be pooping in the forest. If I had to personally perform eye surgery, I'd be blind by now.

Luckily, I can pay people to do the tasks I suck at :-)


Ahh, but pooping in the forest carries it's very own level of enjoyment. Please add it to your bucket list.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1295 on: May 06, 2016, 08:24:30 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
If I had to personally fix my house, I'd be living in a cave. If I had to personally fix my plumbing, I'd be pooping in the forest. If I had to personally perform eye surgery, I'd be blind by now.

Luckily, I can pay people to do the tasks I suck at :-)


Ahh, but pooping in the forest carries it's very own level of enjoyment. Please add it to your bucket list.

It'll certainly make you appreciate modern plumping. And modern medicine, if you're unlucky with what you choose to wipe with.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

MustacheMathTM

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1296 on: May 06, 2016, 08:56:59 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
If I had to personally fix my house, I'd be living in a cave. If I had to personally fix my plumbing, I'd be pooping in the forest. If I had to personally perform eye surgery, I'd be blind by now.

Luckily, I can pay people to do the tasks I suck at :-)


Ahh, but pooping in the forest carries it's very own level of enjoyment. Please add it to your bucket list.

It'll certainly make you appreciate modern plumping. And modern medicine, if you're unlucky with what you choose to wipe with.

Agreed. Peeing outside is awesome. Pooping outside? Notsomuch.

Rural

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1297 on: May 06, 2016, 09:01:30 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
If I had to personally fix my house, I'd be living in a cave. If I had to personally fix my plumbing, I'd be pooping in the forest. If I had to personally perform eye surgery, I'd be blind by now.

Luckily, I can pay people to do the tasks I suck at :-)


Ahh, but pooping in the forest carries it's very own level of enjoyment. Please add it to your bucket list.

It'll certainly make you appreciate modern plumping. And modern medicine, if you're unlucky with what you choose to wipe with.


It's not a matter of luck but of learning, same with the skills to fix a house or its plumbing, or to properly butcher (and raise or hunt) meat. I can do all of the above, including choosing the right leaves to wipe with, have done, in fact. All of this is a matter of conscious choice, and none of the skills are rocket science or even particularly difficult to master if you decide you want to learn them. I'll grant the eye surgery, though!

Metric Mouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1298 on: May 06, 2016, 09:28:25 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
If I had to personally fix my house, I'd be living in a cave. If I had to personally fix my plumbing, I'd be pooping in the forest. If I had to personally perform eye surgery, I'd be blind by now.

Luckily, I can pay people to do the tasks I suck at :-)


Ahh, but pooping in the forest carries it's very own level of enjoyment. Please add it to your bucket list.

It'll certainly make you appreciate modern plumping. And modern medicine, if you're unlucky with what you choose to wipe with.


It's not a matter of luck but of learning, same with the skills to fix a house or its plumbing, or to properly butcher (and raise or hunt) meat. I can do all of the above, including choosing the right leaves to wipe with, have done, in fact. All of this is a matter of conscious choice, and none of the skills are rocket science or even particularly difficult to master if you decide you want to learn them. I'll grant the eye surgery, though!

I would postulate that those that take the time to learn to fix plumbing would not need to double-up on the skill of learning what to wipe with when pooping in the forest. And vise-versa.  In the extremely rare event that a skilled plumber must poop in the woods, then luck might be just enough to get by. :D
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Apples

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1299 on: May 06, 2016, 09:39:55 AM »

If I had to personally kill and/or butcher all of my meat and leather, I'd just end up forgoing it altogether, and yes I know this is screwed up logic.
I have a friend who's vegetarian for that reason.

“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we would all be vegetarian.”
-Paul McCartney
Same feelings as Dezrah and Maco.  Has anyone read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair?  I remember learning a little about it in American History class, but never got around to actually reading it.  http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Upton-Sinclair/dp/1503331865/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462477839&sr=8-1&keywords=the+jungle

Yes I've read it.  It's not really an expose of the slaughterhouse industry like you think it will be.  It's more a story about immigrants working in that industry-so you get a "tour" of the factory and hear about their awful working and living conditions in the early 1900's.  It's definitely more about how terrible things were for the people, which does factor in to some people's choice to not eat meat.  But the general public was much  more concerned about how dirty their meat was, not how some lowly immigrant was treated every day.