Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 638749 times)

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1150 on: April 14, 2016, 07:08:12 AM »
Yeah.  Sorry I missed that you were the OP there. 

Even in an addiction situation, the most frustrating thing are the folks around the chaos who don't have the "I'm an addict" excuse for all of the bad decisions being made and enabled.

There are families where the addict is one of the relatively sane ones, drama-wise.

This. My grandfather on my dad's side drank himself to death (and it took a 40 of gin a day for over 20 years... that's one solid liver, yo). Honestly, though? Given what he was surrounded with? I'm tempted to say that drinking a 40 of gin and then falling asleep on the couch in the back of the store was a perfectly rational way of escaping a world-class shitty situation (aka: his wife and daughter).


AmandaS1989

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1151 on: April 14, 2016, 07:20:48 AM »
Alcohol's a bit touchy in my family. My Mom's dad was a mean drunk when she was growing up and actually wrapped his hands around my grandma's throat when she was 8 months pregnant with my uncle because his food wasn't the right temperature. He never hit her again though after her daddy put a shotgun barrel in his mouth and threatened to blow his head off. He didn't drink anymore after my Mom was in her teens. His sister convinced him to quit thank goodness.

On my dad's side, his paternal grandfather was also a mean drunk. My grandfather said things got so bad sometimes he and his brother would go sleep in the woods to get away from him. He beat their first stepmother so bad she left, though their second stepmother cold-cocked him for hitting her so he left her alone after that. He never did hit his daughters though. My tiny great-aunts would step between their dad and brothers as human shields to give them time to get out of the house. The thought of that scares the hell out of me, as their father was not a small man. Think 6'3'' and 240 lbs. My aunts are barely five feet tall. Christ they were brave to do that.
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Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1152 on: April 14, 2016, 07:28:40 AM »
Yeah, there's a family story on my in-law's side about a guy like that.

He was eventually found in the river with a few bullet holes in his back, and the cops ruled it as a suicide. No one could PROVE that her dad had done it... but, y'know.

(This was also about 40 years ago)

AmandaS1989

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1153 on: April 14, 2016, 07:39:04 AM »
My grandmother confessed to me that her father took her aside and offered to 'get rid of her problem' if she needed it. Her brothers and brothers-in-law also gave her that option.

The sheriff was a family friend so if he had been found in the woods with some bullet holes in his back it probably would've been ruled a hunting accident.
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onlykelsey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1154 on: April 14, 2016, 07:48:52 AM »
My grandmother confessed to me that her father took her aside and offered to 'get rid of her problem' if she needed it. Her brothers and brothers-in-law also gave her that option.

The sheriff was a family friend so if he had been found in the woods with some bullet holes in his back it probably would've been ruled a hunting accident.

Adding to the appalachain stories (although my father was only marginally from there), I once saw my (100-lb meek nurse) aunt back my (absolute shitshow of a) father (see earlier in the thread) against a wall with her hands around his neck and nearly kill him.  I think she would have found a way to avenge my mother's death if I had given my blessing (which I hadn't), and she literally delivers babies for a living and fosters children and is a grandmother herself.

AmandaS1989

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1155 on: April 14, 2016, 07:53:22 AM »
I have a few-times great-aunt once or twice removed (don't you love the convoluted family trees?) who was a midwife in the Appalachian mountains and delivered over 10,000 babies. Her obituary said she never lost a baby in all those years. Damn that's impressive. She was a tiny little thing. I probably could've wrapped my hands around her waist and have space left over and I'm only 5'3'' myself.

There's a lot of tiny, strong women in my family tree.
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SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1156 on: April 14, 2016, 11:11:51 AM »
My grandmother confessed to me that her father took her aside and offered to 'get rid of her problem' if she needed it. Her brothers and brothers-in-law also gave her that option.

The sheriff was a family friend so if he had been found in the woods with some bullet holes in his back it probably would've been ruled a hunting accident.

Wow. That's really fucked up.
I don't believe in hitting woman, or violence at all save to defend yourself.
But to murder someone for being abusive? How about throw him a burlap sack party and tell him to get out of town?
Not to mention the fact that it might have been easier for them to move her in with them than to shoot another human being.
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MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1157 on: April 14, 2016, 11:57:14 AM »
My grandmother confessed to me that her father took her aside and offered to 'get rid of her problem' if she needed it. Her brothers and brothers-in-law also gave her that option.

The sheriff was a family friend so if he had been found in the woods with some bullet holes in his back it probably would've been ruled a hunting accident.

Wow. That's really fucked up.
I don't believe in hitting woman, or violence at all save to defend yourself.
But to murder someone for being abusive? How about throw him a burlap sack party and tell him to get out of town?
Not to mention the fact that it might have been easier for them to move her in with them than to shoot another human being.

Sounds a lot like a brass verdict. Based on what things were perhaps that is the best outcome.

AmandaS1989

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1158 on: April 14, 2016, 12:30:40 PM »
My grandmother confessed to me that her father took her aside and offered to 'get rid of her problem' if she needed it. Her brothers and brothers-in-law also gave her that option.

The sheriff was a family friend so if he had been found in the woods with some bullet holes in his back it probably would've been ruled a hunting accident.

Wow. That's really fucked up.
I don't believe in hitting woman, or violence at all save to defend yourself.
But to murder someone for being abusive? How about throw him a burlap sack party and tell him to get out of town?
Not to mention the fact that it might have been easier for them to move her in with them than to shoot another human being.

The reason they offered to kill him instead of just running him out of town? About ten years prior a woman's husband was run off by her family for beating on her and threatening to kill her. Six months go by with no word from him so her family thinks she's safe. Well they were wrong. She was found dead in the cellar of her house from a gunshot wound to the head. Ten feet away was her estranged husband, also dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

That's why my great-grandfather wanted to shoot his son-in-law. He wasn't willing to see that happen to his daughter. Sure it's a violent, some would even say barbaric solution, but I wouldn't want my daughter to be murdered by her husband either. So I can understand where my great-grandpa was coming from.
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Miss Piggy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1159 on: April 14, 2016, 01:36:00 PM »
My grandmother confessed to me that her father took her aside and offered to 'get rid of her problem' if she needed it. Her brothers and brothers-in-law also gave her that option.

The sheriff was a family friend so if he had been found in the woods with some bullet holes in his back it probably would've been ruled a hunting accident.

Wow. That's really fucked up.
I don't believe in hitting woman, or violence at all save to defend yourself.
But to murder someone for being abusive? How about throw him a burlap sack party and tell him to get out of town?
Not to mention the fact that it might have been easier for them to move her in with them than to shoot another human being.

Goodbye, Earl...

Dezrah

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1160 on: April 14, 2016, 01:43:14 PM »
My grandmother confessed to me that her father took her aside and offered to 'get rid of her problem' if she needed it. Her brothers and brothers-in-law also gave her that option.

The sheriff was a family friend so if he had been found in the woods with some bullet holes in his back it probably would've been ruled a hunting accident.

I abhor violence in all forms but there is something truly empowering for this woman here.  Imagine you're with this person and they beat and mistreat you, but you know with just a word you could have that person wiped off this earth. It is by my grace and mercy that you get to continue to breathe, asshole. I think just knowing I had that power would make the situation more bearable, whether or not I used it. A bruise here and there means nothing, I have the real upper hand.

AmandaS1989

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1161 on: April 14, 2016, 01:49:08 PM »
Miss Piggy I love that song. The video is hilarious.

Dezrah Yeah that's one of the reasons my grandma stayed with my granddad. And why he straightened up. When she found out he was also cheating on her she threatened to call her daddy and he kept it in his pants after that. My grandparents did get divorced before I was born though. She'd finally had enough and left him. My mom and uncle were adults (or close to it) so she had no problem striking out on her own. My grandma told me 'if it weren't for my children and grandchildren, I would've regretted being married to that pig'.
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forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1162 on: April 14, 2016, 04:38:29 PM »
We had a baby a few months ago. My family keeps sending us stuff from my childhood. Of course we don't need it, and definitely don't need it urgently. But they send everything Priority Mail. Some random blankets he won't use? Priority Mail. Some 35 year old clothes he doesn't need? Priority Mail. Some old quilts? Priority Mail. Sigh.

Syonyk

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1163 on: April 14, 2016, 06:11:07 PM »
The post office gives you free Priority Mail boxes. You can order them in bulk as well.
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SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1164 on: April 14, 2016, 07:19:53 PM »

Speaking of killing off troublemakers...

A good friend of mine used to be in the Army.   His unit packed up their gear and headed to a central American country to build something as a training exercise (and a bit of foreign aid, too).

They were building a health clinic for one of the villages.

One of the locals jumped a couple of the soldiers (who were unarmed, of course, being American) and threatened to shoot them with his shotgun.   The soldiers didn't have a clue why this guy was acting that way, they were just walking down the path from the clinic site to the main part of the village.

The next day he went to the village elders to complain about it.   They assured him that the fellow would not be causing anymore issues as a group of them had gone fishing at 3am that morning and he had drowned.   Accidentally.

Those locals weren't going to lose out on a health clinic that could save lots of their family's lives.

druth

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1165 on: April 15, 2016, 07:49:12 AM »

Speaking of killing off troublemakers...

A good friend of mine used to be in the Army.   His unit packed up their gear and headed to a central American country to build something as a training exercise (and a bit of foreign aid, too).

They were building a health clinic for one of the villages.

One of the locals jumped a couple of the soldiers (who were unarmed, of course, being American) and threatened to shoot them with his shotgun.   The soldiers didn't have a clue why this guy was acting that way, they were just walking down the path from the clinic site to the main part of the village.

The next day he went to the village elders to complain about it.   They assured him that the fellow would not be causing anymore issues as a group of them had gone fishing at 3am that morning and he had drowned.   Accidentally.

Those locals weren't going to lose out on a health clinic that could save lots of their family's lives.

This reminded me of an old story...

My grandmother moved to Alaska when she was about 6 so that her parents could manage the school at a small Native American Reservation.  The previous teacher had been a terrible racist, and would regularly humiliate the kids.  A few of the teenage boys killed him.

Rather than let there be a formal investigation and have the possibility of loosing the school all together (which was pretty much the source of all the local public services), they took the boys responsible out and shot them.

So without her knowing any background at the time, the kids at school really liked to scare my grandmother by telling her that the last teacher they had got murdered.

Drifterrider

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1166 on: April 15, 2016, 08:59:20 AM »
My grandmother confessed to me that her father took her aside and offered to 'get rid of her problem' if she needed it. Her brothers and brothers-in-law also gave her that option.

The sheriff was a family friend so if he had been found in the woods with some bullet holes in his back it probably would've been ruled a hunting accident.

Wow. That's really fucked up.
I don't believe in hitting woman, or violence at all save to defend yourself.
But to murder someone for being abusive? How about throw him a burlap sack party and tell him to get out of town?
Not to mention the fact that it might have been easier for them to move her in with them than to shoot another human being.

Goodbye, Earl...

I laughed out loud at that.

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1167 on: April 15, 2016, 09:03:48 AM »
The post office gives you free Priority Mail boxes. You can order them in bulk as well.

My mom sent this in a padded envelope she paid for. The postage was Priority Mail. $16 to get me those useless items in 2 days or less.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1168 on: April 15, 2016, 09:17:28 AM »
The post office gives you free Priority Mail boxes. You can order them in bulk as well.

My mom sent this in a padded envelope she paid for. The postage was Priority Mail. $16 to get me those useless items in 2 days or less.
Wow.  If it fit into a padded envelope, seems like it would have fit into one of the flat-rate boxes of some size and saved a couple bucks between the envelope and postage at least.
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forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1169 on: April 15, 2016, 09:40:57 AM »
The post office gives you free Priority Mail boxes. You can order them in bulk as well.

My mom sent this in a padded envelope she paid for. The postage was Priority Mail. $16 to get me those useless items in 2 days or less.
Wow.  If it fit into a padded envelope, seems like it would have fit into one of the flat-rate boxes of some size and saved a couple bucks between the envelope and postage at least.
And the clothing is also several months too small for him now. The whole thing just doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1170 on: April 17, 2016, 04:54:32 PM »
The post office gives you free Priority Mail boxes. You can order them in bulk as well.

My mom sent this in a padded envelope she paid for. The postage was Priority Mail. $16 to get me those useless items in 2 days or less.
Wow.  If it fit into a padded envelope, seems like it would have fit into one of the flat-rate boxes of some size and saved a couple bucks between the envelope and postage at least.
And the clothing is also several months too small for him now. The whole thing just doesn't make any sense.

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mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1171 on: April 18, 2016, 01:27:38 PM »
Not really sure where to add this story, but I figured that this would be an appropriate thread, although not in the usual direction of this thread.

My cousins were visiting from out of state for a basketball tournament with their mom. The kids were I think 10 and 15, I'm 26. They live in a small town of 2,000 people; within 60 miles in opposite directions you can get to towns of 60k people and 80k people. It is a pretty tiny place.

They were talking about a family that their house burned down, and the kids were saying "they're the richest people in town anyways so they'll be ok". Their mom (my aunt) asked them what made them think that, and they said the nice big house, the pickups, and all the trips that they're always taking. My aunt and mom had kind of a funny smile on their faces, and me too--I don't know for sure, since I don't know these people, but I suspect that my cousins are unknowingly growing up in one of the wealthiest families in town. Probably the best educated family in town, anyways. (I think there are 7 degrees between the 2 parents)

Hunny156

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1172 on: April 18, 2016, 03:38:51 PM »
We had a baby a few months ago. My family keeps sending us stuff from my childhood. Of course we don't need it, and definitely don't need it urgently. But they send everything Priority Mail. Some random blankets he won't use? Priority Mail. Some 35 year old clothes he doesn't need? Priority Mail. Some old quilts? Priority Mail. Sigh.

Don't underestimate the postal workers trying to pad the charges when they see customers who don't know all the options.  My MIL mailed a bunch of boxes to our home in advance of her move, and the post office clearly saw a sucker and took full advantage.  They told her that "FRAGILE" stickers were required and charged her an extra $10/box.  If they added more tape to the package b/c they didn't think hers was enough, she paid for the roll.  I had informed her about media mail and parcel post, and they often dissuaded her by stating that she wouldn't have insurance.  I cringed as box after box arrived, with shipping charges of $70 - $110 clearly marked on the label.

To be fair, this was more than partially her fault, she HAD to pack these things to take them with her. Four months later, she's gone on a shopping spree and bought a lot of new stuff, and those boxes sit in the spare bedroom, never touched.  She and my FIL are retired, so lack of time isn't the issue.  A total waste of over $1,600 in shipping costs.  However, if we had gotten her the moving truck she wanted, I can only imagine that she would have spent $4K+, had even more boxes, and still done the same thing.  So somehow this was the "better" option...

BlueHouse

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1173 on: April 18, 2016, 04:58:44 PM »
Gah!  Just found out my mom is spending $195 for haircuts.  Not color, not highlights, not perms, nothing fancy.  Just a haircut.  As she was telling us this, we were dumbfounded.  Her haircut is not particularly fashionable.  In fact, it looked like a nun's haircut from before they were allowed to show their hair -- back when they wore wimples and habits.   She had zero understanding that that is what a celebrity hairstylist charges, not some moderately capable person in suburban Washington, DC. Ridiculous! 
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1174 on: April 19, 2016, 02:37:24 AM »
Gah!  Just found out my mom is spending $195 for haircuts.  Not color, not highlights, not perms, nothing fancy.  Just a haircut.  As she was telling us this, we were dumbfounded.  Her haircut is not particularly fashionable. In fact, it looked like a nun's haircut from before they were allowed to show their hair -- back when they wore wimples and habits.   She had zero understanding that that is what a celebrity hairstylist charges, not some moderately capable person in suburban Washington, DC. Ridiculous!

OMG, that made me laugh out loud.:D I went to a convent school.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1175 on: April 19, 2016, 09:33:23 AM »
My sister, her child and her boyfriend moved in with our uncle about 9 months ago.  He had some room in his apartment and the reduced rent they would pay was meant to be saved so they could afford a move to Seattle where something something something it all gets easier somehow.  This uncle was like a father to us when we were growing up and has been one of the few sane members of our family.  I named my first born son after him, he's that important.

Part of their stay there was paying rent of only 400/mo.  I know they were living on one income while my sister took care of her daughter and the boyfriend worked.  She talked a good game about keeping costs down and getting money saved.  Well, they made the move to Seattle last week where the roads are made of gold and fair trade coffee.  In talking with my uncle I found out they only paid their full rent once or twice.  All the  money went to the idiot boyfriend's comic book collection and their pack-a-day smoking habit.

I don't have words.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1176 on: April 19, 2016, 09:52:54 AM »
In talking with my uncle I found out they only paid their full rent once or twice.  All the  money went to the idiot boyfriend's comic book collection and their pack-a-day smoking habit.

I don't have words.

Wow! That's a key ingredient why not to do business with family or close friends. A frickin' comic book collection when they aren't paying rent or saving up?

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1177 on: April 19, 2016, 09:54:39 AM »
Crazy!  I went to my sister's hair stylist in Palm Springs this winter and had my long hair chpped off (10"), then totally restyled and coloured for $100 US.  Here my small town haircut (nothing else) is $16 CAN.

Gah!  Just found out my mom is spending $195 for haircuts.  Not color, not highlights, not perms, nothing fancy.  Just a haircut.  As she was telling us this, we were dumbfounded.  Her haircut is not particularly fashionable.  In fact, it looked like a nun's haircut from before they were allowed to show their hair -- back when they wore wimples and habits.   She had zero understanding that that is what a celebrity hairstylist charges, not some moderately capable person in suburban Washington, DC. Ridiculous!

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1178 on: April 19, 2016, 10:04:24 AM »
I think my mom goes to Great Clips or Costcutters or Fantastic Sam's to get a haircut. I don't see eye to eye with my mom, but she's a huge reason I have the frugal-gene. My parent came to the US and obtained financial stability the hard way and it shows in my mom's attitude towards expenses. They are starting to lighten up now that they are approaching retirement (both could though neighbor want to as they enjoy their work) and have multiple grandchildren to spoil.

gillstone

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1179 on: April 19, 2016, 10:18:25 AM »
In talking with my uncle I found out they only paid their full rent once or twice.  All the  money went to the idiot boyfriend's comic book collection and their pack-a-day smoking habit.

I don't have words.

Wow! That's a key ingredient why not to do business with family or close friends. A frickin' comic book collection when they aren't paying rent or saving up?

He's a 40-year old colorist who wants to start his own comic book publishing company but refuses to use computers to do any of the artwork, advertise what he wants to do or make any kind of business connection.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1180 on: April 19, 2016, 10:39:40 AM »
In talking with my uncle I found out they only paid their full rent once or twice.  All the  money went to the idiot boyfriend's comic book collection and their pack-a-day smoking habit.

I don't have words.

Wow! That's a key ingredient why not to do business with family or close friends. A frickin' comic book collection when they aren't paying rent or saving up?

He's a 40-year old colorist who wants to start his own comic book publishing company but refuses to use computers to do any of the artwork, advertise what he wants to do or make any kind of business connection.

Reminds me of a friend of mine. She's a terrific person but I just have to shake my head. She's in her mid to late 30s, works for slightly above minimum wage, but feels like God has called upon her to be a missionary, yet doesn't take any steps in that direction to go work there. She's ended quite a few relationships that were progressing because the guy didn't want to be a full-time missionary. They are people that are quite eager and willing to go on missions' trips though.

BFGirl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1181 on: April 19, 2016, 02:32:17 PM »
Oh I've got stories for days regarding my in laws. These are the stereotypical kids who give the rest of the millenials a bad name. When people say you are only poor because you are lazy it's these idiots that make the case for them.

Oh where to even begin. Let's start with the overview. 4 kids all in their 30s all living with or crashing with at various times during a week with their mother. Now my MIL does not work she is disabled and lives off of some crazy combination of disability and her deceased husbands SS and military pension and this nets a tidy sum of about $4,000 a month. Back to the 4 kids all are unemployed with student loan debt up the yin yang. One sells some pyramid scheme bath product crap here and there but that's about it. Oh they live in a three bedroom apartment and have been forcibly removed from at least 5 residences in the last 5 years for non payment of rent. During these evictions she stores her stuff and has lost storage spaces for non payment I don't know how many times. She has had to purchase new furniture so many times and it's always rent a center scheme type stuff. Her rent is reasonable about $1,000 a month but her utilities everywhere she goes are insane like $500 a month water bills! My wife says it's always been like that even growing up. They shower, wash a ton of clothes idk wtf but there you are. They also eat out all the time? Why? No one wants to buy groceries because the others will eat anything not nailed down! My SIL started hoarding food which caused ants and other bugs in the closet! MIL is currently being dragged into court for this place too so we will see if she gets evicted again. How can she not afford the rent? Let's go down the roster:

My BIL is a gym rat who works out all the time and then parties all night and sleeps all day. He couldn't attend his nephew (my sons) birthday party last week because it was at 4pm on a Sunday and was still asleep. When BIL is awake he uses MILs debit card to rack up gym memberships, protein powder, etc but wait it gets worse! He just bought a Costco membership but doesn't own a car. So he uses Uber to drive him the 1 1/2 miles to Costco and then another back to carry the groceries! He used her debit card last month to pay off warrants which ate up most of MIL money which caused the eviction! This type of activity is what caused the last 5 evictions and when it's pack up and get out time who does the packing? MIL ALL BY HERSELF! All the kids even without vehicles somehow manage to get out of dodge and help not a lick! He has a son by some one night stand who he never sees and apparently is being abused by the new boyfriend. He won't get a job to get a lawyer to fight for custody however. He's wrecked at least three cars that MIL bought cash with the life insurance money her husband left her when he died. One of those was a $40k Dodge Charger bought cash. All vehicles were wrecked due to drunk driving by the way. Hitting medians and breaking at least two axles. BIL has had several DWIs. They've also lost at least three other vehicles to title loans. And I am talking about $50k Mercedes ML500 paid off taken for nonpayment of a $5,000 title loan!

Second BIL is just a drifter who couch surfs 24/7 best that I can tell. Multiple DWIs, takes money from MIL. Does nothing with his life. Years ago he had his life kind of straight. He was with a girl and MIL paid for the deposit on a new build KB home. something like $20k for them. They break up and the home and the deposit end up lost for nothing. This had happened before when MIL had put down something like $50k on a McMansion. Like 4500 sq ft type. Lost that one too but at least that was meant for the whole zoo. I remember on MILs birthday one year they asked HER for money to take a trip to Houston to go party. She pays all their bills remember and they didn't so much as buy her a card but instead took money from her to go drink! I swear I am not making this stuff up....

SIL has the daughter who lives at the zoo. Years ago she makes MIL buy two brand new Jeep Grand Cherokees one for her and one for the baby daddy. She also has MIL furnish and renovate his house something like $100k. After all of this they break up and he kicks her and his daughter out. Keeping the truck and house. Now she's about to be 40 and desperately wanted another baby. So instead of you know looking for a partner to love, cherish, marry, etc. she hooks up with some guy she meets at a hotel. She's now pregnant and has no contact info for the guy and never will and decided to quit her job at the front desk of the hotel (where she met the guy) to raise the kid.

So TL;DR my MIL received a large life insurance payout when her husband died and has blown through near as I can tell $500-$700k on mainly cars, eating out, and deposits on new construction homes that fell through. She now supports four 30 year olds and their kids on SSDI and a military pension. All of whom treat her like crap and she's had multiple heart attacks. We've begged her to come and live with us on the condition that the leeches are not welcome. No dice on that.

<drops mic>

Just now reading through this thread.  These people are why I have a job.  Geez.

Canadian in KS

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1182 on: April 20, 2016, 03:09:00 PM »
Joined the forum just to vent (and maybe seek some advice?)

From the time I first met my SIL, she has been in a constant state of crisis. Initially I felt sorry for her (since it seemed she had had some bad breaks) but I quickly realized that her “bad breaks” were the direct result of making some incredibly poor choices. Background: her parents paid for her degrees (bachelors and MBA) and supported her until she was married. Her husband is employed, but makes a relatively small salary, and both SIL and her husband live beyond their means (WAY beyond). Whenever she is in financial trouble, she immediately calls my husband (i.e. her brother) to bail her out. My DH is a physician and is generally regarded as being “the successful one” in his family, so she basically treats him as though he is an ATM she can get money from whenever she wants. If he refuses to give her money, she complains to her mother (i.e. my MIL), and MIL calls DH and demands he give SIL the money. If DH still refuses, then MIL will give SIL the money, but then MIL will call DH asking for money, saying she is broke because she had to bail out SIL. (Then he usually caves, because MIL/FIL are retired and on a fixed income.)

Just a few highlights from the past 8 years I have known SIL:

- Quit her job while pregnant, saying she felt too sick to work, then constantly complained of being broke and needing money for the baby’s things. Once the baby was born, had a full-time nanny come in to look after the kid while she did absolutely nothing all day.
- Did not get another job for about 5 years, citing post-partum depression. Non-stop requests for money. She had to move several times during this period as rent was too high or some other issue; always needed money to move, buy new furniture, etc.
- While still unemployed, she decided that she wanted to live in San Francisco. Note that neither she nor her husband work there (her husband’s job is a work-from-home set-up, so it could be done from anywhere). Also, neither she nor her husband have family there, they just want to live in one of the most expensive cities in the US because “they like it”.
- Then she decided that they “needed” to BUY a townhome in San Francisco (!!!) This place costs more than DH’s and my house (in the Midwest), and our income is many times what theirs is! Guess who they wanted to fund the downpayment?

And while all this is going on:
- Trip to Paris (spiritual necessity to visit some shrine there)
- Trip to Tuscany (I don’t even know the rationale for this one)
- Multiple trips to the Philippines (where MIL and FIL live)
- Many additional trips to Disneyland, Las Vegas, and various locales along the California coast.
- Regular massages and various other therapies and treatments (necessary to reduce stress). Also needs many supplements, essential oils, etc., “critical” for health reasons.
- Organic everything (the only healthy choice). 
- Designer clothes, shoes, purses etc. since she needs to look her best or she might fall into a depression again. (Note that she spends more on clothes to be unemployed in than I do on clothes for my $100K+ office job). Same goes for her husband and kid – only the best.
- All the latest technology (iPad, iPhone, etc.) are necessities, since she “may” need them to look for and apply for a job at some point. Same for her husband and kid; all gadgets are necessary. (Also, her husband spends $$$ on comic books, Xbox, video games, etc, because “hobbies are so important, they help relieve stress”.)

But then: PLOT TWIST! She DID get a job, at a bank. (I am as surprised as you are!) Finally, I thought! Things are turning around! My elation was short-lived though, as she was recently fired for malingering. (This is another story altogether: she continually insists that she is suffering from various ailments that prevent her from working (but not from shopping or going to the spa or what-have-you).) At the same time she announced the firing she also announced she has 20K+ on her credit cards that she can’t pay.
 
So, I’m certain that she won’t be getting another job for a while (if ever); surely she will need time and all kinds of stress relieving treatments/purchases to get over the trauma of being fired. Maybe a trip to Hawaii or something too, so that she can relax and get over the stress of that incident.

I don’t know what it is that bothers me the most: the fact that she takes zero responsibility for anything that is happening in her life (attributing all her problems to “bad luck”, while apparently my DH’s and my relative success in life is due to “good luck” and nothing else)? The fact that her working assumption in every situation is that other people are supposed to take care of her, and that my DH has some kind of moral obligation to continue to support her ad infinitum because she’s “family”? The fact that she feels completely comfortable sitting on her a$$ and blowing all this money on her various “needs” while my DH works long hours at a difficult, stressful job to earn said money (and BTW, DH had a heart attack last year at age 45)? Note that she has never once (in the 8 years DH and I have been together) called DH to say something like “Happy birthday!” or “Sorry about your heart attack!”, etc.  Every single call is a request for money. She apparently feels no guilt. In fact, her attitude towards DH is almost hostile, like: “You have money, I need money, why are you not writing me a check right now?! Why are you not getting this?!”

Honestly, this has caused a lot of conflict between DH and myself. I really feel he needs to cut her off and tell her how disrespectful it is for her to behave this way. But he does not want to upset his parents, who also see him as having a moral obligation to support his “poor” sister. I am truly afraid we are going to be supporting her for the rest of her life. I sometimes experience She-Hulk-like rage when I think about the fact that, despite my lifetime of frugal, debt-free living and saving to achieve my goals of early retirement, college for my 2 children, traveling the world, etc, the reality is that I am likely going to end up working longer because of the amount of money that is being siphoned off our household income to go to her. I mean, in some ways the money that was meant to support DH’s and my early retirement and world travel  is supporting HER (current) “early retirement” and world travel! Seriously, sometimes I will be sitting there clipping coupons or something and a wave of fury will wash over me as I consider that all the money I’m working so hard to save is going directly to someone who has never clipped a coupon in her life (and would never consider doing something so “beneath her”). GAH!!!

Sorry for the super-long rant, just needed to get this off my chest!

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1183 on: April 20, 2016, 03:45:18 PM »
[ insane tale of SIL-zilla ]
Welcome to the forums, and wow, what a first post!

Your SIL needs to get lost. That's not going to work until the parents are on the same page as you.

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1184 on: April 20, 2016, 03:56:25 PM »
Joined the forum just to vent (and maybe seek some advice?)
. . .
[long disturbing story of sloth, mooching, and enabling]
. . .
Sorry for the super-long rant, just needed to get this off my chest!

I'm sorry you are going through this.  I can identify with the rage you feel about the whole situation.  Unfortunately, from what you describe, it seems to me nothing will change unless and until your husband refuses to enable your SIL directly or indirectly (through his parents).  SIL behaves this way because she knows she can get what she wants from DH or MIL/FIL.  MIL/FIL behave the way they do because they know they can get what they want from DH.  No matter which way you slice it, it all comes back to DH. 

You mention that MIL and FIL live in the Philippines.  Is there a cultural difference at play where DH feels obligated to support his parents no matter what?  If so, I might have some more sympathy for DH's plight.  If not, DH is the only one with the power to do anything about it and he needs to step up and end the enabling.  It is going to be painful for him to do it but I think he needs to put you and his immediate family first. 

former player

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1185 on: April 20, 2016, 04:40:58 PM »
Joined the forum just to vent (and maybe seek some advice?)

[SIL-zilla!]
Rant heard and sympathy on its way.

Could you bear to make a table setting out all the money that has gone to this woman from you, either directly or indirectly, over the years?  That might be an eye-opener for all concerned.

I hope your husband is looking after his health.  Can he cut his hours?  If he can, it would be an opportunity to send the message "husband ill, no longer able to earn at previous levels, sorry won't be able to send money any more".

Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1186 on: April 20, 2016, 04:53:44 PM »
I second the opinion that if possible  your hubby should reduce his hours and use that as the reason for cutting the support. I would have cut her off but then again my parents would not be expecting me to support a sibling.  What a horrible situation!

ender

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1187 on: April 20, 2016, 05:20:37 PM »
You mention that MIL and FIL live in the Philippines.  Is there a cultural difference at play where DH feels obligated to support his parents no matter what?  If so, I might have some more sympathy for DH's plight.  If not, DH is the only one with the power to do anything about it and he needs to step up and end the enabling.  It is going to be painful for him to do it but I think he needs to put you and his immediate family first.

This is what I thought, too.

Dezrah

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1188 on: April 20, 2016, 05:22:09 PM »

- Multiple trips to the Philippines (where MIL and FIL live)


This is what jumped out at me. 

Back in the day, I caught a Suze Orman episode where a caller asked for advice on supporting her Filipino mother beyond what she could afford.  Suze went into detail about how money giving/taking is extremely fluid in Filipino culture.  Everyone is always just giving money to help out this person or taking money for their own minor issue.  It's actually a huge problem for first-generation immigrants to provide for themselves and their family back home while trying to live in a HCOL country like the US.

I wouldn't be surprised if your husband and in-laws are simply deeply ingrained in this cultural mindset and just simply don't see anything wrong with this pattern.  For what it's worth, there's nothing intrinsically Wrong with this (you could say it creates a greater sense of community and a generally larger safety-net for individuals and families).  Your SIL sounds like she's failing on the giving half of this aspect though.

If you want advice, I would suggest a line item for the SIL in your budget.  That kills me to even type that but that might be the kind of compromise you need to make peace in your marriage.  You and your husband agree to a set amount that can even accumulate over time.  It will probably be more than you want to give and less than your husband feels is sufficient, but then you both stick to it and never bring it up again.  You just let it go after that.  If your husband breaks his end of the bargain, well... you have problems beyond SIL and her finances at that point.

druth

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1189 on: April 20, 2016, 05:33:46 PM »
Joined the forum just to vent (and maybe seek some advice?)

[SIL-zilla!]
Rant heard and sympathy on its way.

Could you bear to make a table setting out all the money that has gone to this woman from you, either directly or indirectly, over the years?  That might be an eye-opener for all concerned.

I hope your husband is looking after his health.  Can he cut his hours?  If he can, it would be an opportunity to send the message "husband ill, no longer able to earn at previous levels, sorry won't be able to send money any more".

He shouldn't have to make less money just so SIL can't take it away from him!

He needs to put his foot down.  Sit down(or sit down at the phone, as the case may be) with the parents and using the number that Canadian mentioned say "This is what SIL has cost us.  She lives better than us and I'm not willing to subsidize her any more, and you shouldn't either.  She is taking advantage of you and she will keep doing it until you say no.  So from today forward, I am not giving her money, and I am not giving you money for her.  I am already out X$ that I will never get back, and none of it has made her life any less crazy."

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1190 on: April 20, 2016, 06:04:41 PM »
Druth: that is a great idea. I think when people suggest he work less it is for his health since he had a heart attack so young.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1191 on: April 20, 2016, 06:18:28 PM »
Canadian in KS, that's a really bad situation.

All I can say is that I don't believe anyone should be working to subsidize the bad spending behaviors (and lack of ambition in working) for someone else. It wouldn't be fair at all to you for you and your husband to put off working while your SIL doesn't work.

My recommendation is to compile a list of all "loans" you gave her and your MIL and show it to them. Then say something along the lines of, "Don't ever question our love for you, and as we love you we're cutting you off." Of course this is a tougher situation for you as it is your husband's family so I don't know how he would feel about this.

Adventine

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1192 on: April 20, 2016, 09:14:59 PM »
Speaking from bitter personal experience, yes, Canadian in KS, it's partly a cultural thing.

Your husband is considered the successful one and so he is expected by his parents to take care of his much less fortunate sister. Never mind that a great deal of her misfortune is self-inflicted. I don't think you will be able to change your husband's sense of obligation to help his family. It's too deeply ingrained.

What you CAN change is your husband's idea of "help." Right now, his idea of helping his sister = giving her money. Why not encourage him to reconsider this? You can point out money is obly a very temporary, band-aid like solution to his sister's chronic, long-term problems. She's irresponsible, entitled and abusive, and her parents have enabled her for many years.

You can point out to your husband that all the financial help has not made her situation any better, and that it's time to consider other forms of help that do NOT involve money.

Simply saying "I'm not going to give you money any more" will completely destroy your husband's relationship with his family. Yes, I agree, it's a totally dysfunctional family, but it's still his family, and by extension, yours.

It is more acceptable for your husband to say "I am no longer able to give you money because (insert reasons here) but I am willing to help you in (insert other non-financial ways that are acceptable)."

You will have to strike a balance between setting better boundaries and allowing your husband to fulfill his deeply ingrained sense of obligation to his family.

Good luck, it isn't easy, but in time, it can get easier.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1193 on: April 21, 2016, 03:05:14 AM »
When you talk to your husband about this, I totally recommend having added up all the money you have both spent on her in the last eight years. However, before you show him the number, ask him how much he thinks you have both spent on her. I bet it's less than half the real number, and it will give him a bigger shock if you make him estimate first.

Try reading some of Captain Awkward's blog for examples of how to set healthy boundaries.

Canadian in KS

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1194 on: April 21, 2016, 08:37:20 AM »
Thanks all for the advice. A resounding “YES” to all those who have asked if there is some sort of cultural imperative to support one’s family at play here. I am not Filipino myself but DH is, and this is what I’ve observed among his relatives and friends. Having said that though, our case seems kind of extreme.

We actually just came back this past weekend from a trip to visit MIL and FIL in Manila. While we were there we did have the opportunity to discuss SIL with them, and I was somewhat surprised/relieved to hear them admit that they agree her behavior is unreasonable and that this situation cannot go on as it has been. However, they feel obligated to continue the financial support because of their grandchild (i.e. our niece), now 7 years old, who has some developmental issues/special needs. None of us is sure she is getting the care she needs. SIL will ask for money for speech therapy, a tutor, medical expenses, etc. for the niece, but we are not certain that the money we give is actually going there. So I have been thinking that a potential solution might be to say, “SIL, we are going to help you by paying for niece’s speech therapy (as in, we will receive the bills directly and pay them), and that is it, that is all the financial help we are giving you.” Or additionally/alternatively, “SIL, we are going to start a 529 plan for niece, and we will fund it with XXXX dollars per year, and that is it, that is all the financial help we are giving you.” I could get on board with a plan that would help our niece without the possibility of SIL hijacking the money. Hopefully MIL and FIL will also see this as a fulfillment of the “obligation to help” that actually results in some help for the niece, who is really innocent in all this. I know SIL will balk at this deal and come up with 1001 other expenses she needs us to fund, but if DH and I can get MIL and FIL to agree that it is a reasonable plan, then that stops SIL from going the route of crying to MIL to intervene with DH on her behalf.   

Thank you again for your helpful comments and insights.

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1195 on: April 21, 2016, 08:45:02 AM »
Thanks all for the advice. A resounding “YES” to all those who have asked if there is some sort of cultural imperative to support one’s family at play here. I am not Filipino myself but DH is, and this is what I’ve observed among his relatives and friends. Having said that though, our case seems kind of extreme.

We actually just came back this past weekend from a trip to visit MIL and FIL in Manila. While we were there we did have the opportunity to discuss SIL with them, and I was somewhat surprised/relieved to hear them admit that they agree her behavior is unreasonable and that this situation cannot go on as it has been. However, they feel obligated to continue the financial support because of their grandchild (i.e. our niece), now 7 years old, who has some developmental issues/special needs. None of us is sure she is getting the care she needs. SIL will ask for money for speech therapy, a tutor, medical expenses, etc. for the niece, but we are not certain that the money we give is actually going there. So I have been thinking that a potential solution might be to say, “SIL, we are going to help you by paying for niece’s speech therapy (as in, we will receive the bills directly and pay them), and that is it, that is all the financial help we are giving you.” Or additionally/alternatively, “SIL, we are going to start a 529 plan for niece, and we will fund it with XXXX dollars per year, and that is it, that is all the financial help we are giving you.” I could get on board with a plan that would help our niece without the possibility of SIL hijacking the money. Hopefully MIL and FIL will also see this as a fulfillment of the “obligation to help” that actually results in some help for the niece, who is really innocent in all this. I know SIL will balk at this deal and come up with 1001 other expenses she needs us to fund, but if DH and I can get MIL and FIL to agree that it is a reasonable plan, then that stops SIL from going the route of crying to MIL to intervene with DH on her behalf.   

Thank you again for your helpful comments and insights.

It is encouraging to hear that MIL/FIL are willing to admit SIL's behavior is problematic and it sounds you may be able to work out a reasonable compromise that protects your family but still acknowledges the cultural/moral obligation to help family.  It is especially hard when a child is caught in the middle.  Good luck. 

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1196 on: April 21, 2016, 10:11:42 AM »
Canadian, I think you have a great idea. I agree with offering to pay your niece's bills directly as this way it ensures that your niece is able to get the assistance that she needs as there is no guaranteed of it right now. It also eliminates your SIL stating that she needs assistance for her niece.

NESailor

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1197 on: April 21, 2016, 11:04:08 AM »
Wow, I came on here to comment about how silly my in laws are but my issues are NOTHING compared to some of the stories here (SIL from Hell for example).

I did have something similar.  My father went from successful businessman in his late 30s and 40s to raging alcoholic unable to keep his life together as he approached 50.  I sent him some money (I'm a 1st gen immigrant too) with no strings attached.  Unfortunately, all our efforts to get help for him failed and even though we quickly realized that handing money directly to him was not good, even covering rehab and rent etc. didn't help.  He died at 54 and with him ( I hope) our economic outpatient care obligations.

My in-laws...ah yes...typical average financial illiterates.  Wonderful people, no doubt, but financially illiterate all the same.  They're talking about retirement in a few years and while they have more money than average (about 250K in 401k's, 1 has a pension, both will get SS) - they don't understand the first thing about money or retirement.  No clue about SWRs, SS filing strategies, taxes...nada.  FIL went to see "the retirement guy" at work and came back with the glorious news that he'll "have more money coming in than he has now"  When I asked about sources, inflation, and taxes his face went blank.  MIL lost her job last year but got a very very generous severance package considering her lack of marketable skills.  She got 9 months of full salary during which she turned down 1 job  (beneath her) and didn't really look for others until right up before the money ran out.  Also kept making payments on a nice sedan, went on a vacation and to the casino several times.  It took a full year to get employed again, at half of her previous job's salary.  They eat out more in 1 week than our young family does in 3 months.  Buy all sort of random crap, kitchen gadgetry (they don't cook), TVs, clothing, lawn furniture every other year (they don't use it), etc.  I'm hoping that they don't run themselves into the ground because I know it would be quite hard for my wife to say no to saving that sinking ship.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1198 on: April 22, 2016, 08:34:04 AM »
My mom calls me at work at least once a week wanting directions. She has a smartphone with GPS and I have showed her how to use it but she refuses to learn and then won't let me talk her into turning it on because "I'm running late," and yet continues to do this again and again.

forummm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #1199 on: April 22, 2016, 08:35:42 AM »
The post office gives you free Priority Mail boxes. You can order them in bulk as well.

My mom sent this in a padded envelope she paid for. The postage was Priority Mail. $16 to get me those useless items in 2 days or less.
Wow.  If it fit into a padded envelope, seems like it would have fit into one of the flat-rate boxes of some size and saved a couple bucks between the envelope and postage at least.
And the clothing is also several months too small for him now. The whole thing just doesn't make any sense.

Emphasis added.

Have you talked to your mother on the phone lately?  Is she still sharp...?  One of the signs of dementia in my grandmother was the giving of unsuitable gifts whenever we would see her, which she had not done in earlier years.  Invalid shower soaps to healthy teenage grandchildren, an old skirt that I could have because she "didn't like it and it was ugly."  Please have someone keep an eye on her, as it will creep up slowly.

My mom has always been crazy. But this isn't one of those things. Grandmas get weird about sentimental baby stuff. His other grandma has been knitting him things that already are too small and also sending blankets, etc. His aunt has also knitted and Priority Mailed a blanket. It's just some tradition thing and they are doing it wastefully.