Author Topic: Reddit FI on buying cars  (Read 6765 times)

Tetsuya Hondo

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Reddit FI on buying cars
« on: August 08, 2017, 08:48:00 AM »
I would expect better from the FI group:
https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/6s3xw6/how_much_do_you_spend_on_your_car/

Tl;dr version: Buy it! Buy whatever you want! You'll feel better!

Tetsuya Hondo

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2017, 10:56:09 AM »
MODS - Please remove the duplicate thread to this one. My interwebs froze up as I was attempting to post the first time and it didn't look like it loaded.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 08:40:03 AM »
Wasn't sure where to put this, as it wasn't "overhead" at work or on facebook, but relates to cars so I'll post here.

Have a friend in his late 20s (we aren't great friends, so I don't know his whole story, just as a disclaimer).  He has apparently always had a pickup truck as a "second" vehicle despite being single for most of his 20s/adult life.  He's not a contractor, doesn't really use it for construction projects, etc. etc.  At most, he gets decent use of it camping a couple times a year (from what he's told me) and maybe a football tailgate party once a year.

A recent girlfriend got him to think more about this idiotic vehicle situation.  His primary car was a Subaru WRX that was tricked out with turbo and whatnot (I think he said it was $30k brand new when he bought it).  So he traded it in along with his old pickup truck...and bought a brand new pickup.

On one hand, he finally consolidated two vehicles into one (a positive).  He only has two dogs he totes around so it makes sense.  But he bought a $25k+ truck, and part of the justification was it gets decent gas mileage....22 mpg on the highway!

It's just a "thing" to have a truck, I guess.  I see no use for it if it doesn't greatly benefit your job/side hustle.  You're just pissing away money to "look cool" in a truck all while paying nearly double what you need to in gas (I'm flustered if I get under 45 mpg).

I guess it's better than owning two vehicles for no reason, but still a head scratcher for me.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 09:26:14 AM »
Wasn't sure where to put this, as it wasn't "overhead" at work or on facebook, but relates to cars so I'll post here.

Have a friend in his late 20s (we aren't great friends, so I don't know his whole story, just as a disclaimer).  He has apparently always had a pickup truck as a "second" vehicle despite being single for most of his 20s/adult life.  He's not a contractor, doesn't really use it for construction projects, etc. etc.  At most, he gets decent use of it camping a couple times a year (from what he's told me) and maybe a football tailgate party once a year.

A recent girlfriend got him to think more about this idiotic vehicle situation.  His primary car was a Subaru WRX that was tricked out with turbo and whatnot (I think he said it was $30k brand new when he bought it).  So he traded it in along with his old pickup truck...and bought a brand new pickup.

On one hand, he finally consolidated two vehicles into one (a positive).  He only has two dogs he totes around so it makes sense.  But he bought a $25k+ truck, and part of the justification was it gets decent gas mileage....22 mpg on the highway!

It's just a "thing" to have a truck, I guess.  I see no use for it if it doesn't greatly benefit your job/side hustle.  You're just pissing away money to "look cool" in a truck all while paying nearly double what you need to in gas (I'm flustered if I get under 45 mpg).

I guess it's better than owning two vehicles for no reason, but still a head scratcher for me.

What's his job/income? If he makes enough, doesnt drive a ton and has money saved otherwised, it's not that outrageous of a vehicle choice.
Tt drives me nuts when friends have an expensive car but "can't afford to save anything." I've heard of people buying 40k trucks when they are completely broke. Another friend trades in leased fully loaded Rav4's every couple years and makes 25% more than me, was completely shocked when I tell her I can save 20% for retirement.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 09:46:24 AM »
Wasn't sure where to put this, as it wasn't "overhead" at work or on facebook, but relates to cars so I'll post here.

Have a friend in his late 20s (we aren't great friends, so I don't know his whole story, just as a disclaimer).  He has apparently always had a pickup truck as a "second" vehicle despite being single for most of his 20s/adult life.  He's not a contractor, doesn't really use it for construction projects, etc. etc.  At most, he gets decent use of it camping a couple times a year (from what he's told me) and maybe a football tailgate party once a year.

A recent girlfriend got him to think more about this idiotic vehicle situation.  His primary car was a Subaru WRX that was tricked out with turbo and whatnot (I think he said it was $30k brand new when he bought it).  So he traded it in along with his old pickup truck...and bought a brand new pickup.

On one hand, he finally consolidated two vehicles into one (a positive).  He only has two dogs he totes around so it makes sense.  But he bought a $25k+ truck, and part of the justification was it gets decent gas mileage....22 mpg on the highway!

It's just a "thing" to have a truck, I guess.  I see no use for it if it doesn't greatly benefit your job/side hustle.  You're just pissing away money to "look cool" in a truck all while paying nearly double what you need to in gas (I'm flustered if I get under 45 mpg).

I guess it's better than owning two vehicles for no reason, but still a head scratcher for me.

What's his job/income? If he makes enough, doesnt drive a ton and has money saved otherwised, it's not that outrageous of a vehicle choice.
Tt drives me nuts when friends have an expensive car but "can't afford to save anything." I've heard of people buying 40k trucks when they are completely broke. Another friend trades in leased fully loaded Rav4's every couple years and makes 25% more than me, was completely shocked when I tell her I can save 20% for retirement.

I believe salary is $70-$75k, based on a little bit of research of job title/company. 

Travis

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 12:00:53 PM »
Wasn't sure where to put this, as it wasn't "overhead" at work or on facebook, but relates to cars so I'll post here.

Have a friend in his late 20s (we aren't great friends, so I don't know his whole story, just as a disclaimer).  He has apparently always had a pickup truck as a "second" vehicle despite being single for most of his 20s/adult life.  He's not a contractor, doesn't really use it for construction projects, etc. etc.  At most, he gets decent use of it camping a couple times a year (from what he's told me) and maybe a football tailgate party once a year.

A recent girlfriend got him to think more about this idiotic vehicle situation.  His primary car was a Subaru WRX that was tricked out with turbo and whatnot (I think he said it was $30k brand new when he bought it).  So he traded it in along with his old pickup truck...and bought a brand new pickup.

On one hand, he finally consolidated two vehicles into one (a positive).  He only has two dogs he totes around so it makes sense.  But he bought a $25k+ truck, and part of the justification was it gets decent gas mileage....22 mpg on the highway!

It's just a "thing" to have a truck, I guess.  I see no use for it if it doesn't greatly benefit your job/side hustle.  You're just pissing away money to "look cool" in a truck all while paying nearly double what you need to in gas (I'm flustered if I get under 45 mpg).

I guess it's better than owning two vehicles for no reason, but still a head scratcher for me.

What's his job/income? If he makes enough, doesnt drive a ton and has money saved otherwised, it's not that outrageous of a vehicle choice.
Tt drives me nuts when friends have an expensive car but "can't afford to save anything." I've heard of people buying 40k trucks when they are completely broke. Another friend trades in leased fully loaded Rav4's every couple years and makes 25% more than me, was completely shocked when I tell her I can save 20% for retirement.

Respectfully disagree. If he's not driving it that much, then why did he buy it?  He still has to pay for gas, insurance, and maintenance.  His costs of ownership are double that of most sedans. Assuming he bought a new truck, he bought one of the less-expensive models so I might give him credit for that.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 12:08:10 PM »
Wasn't sure where to put this, as it wasn't "overhead" at work or on facebook, but relates to cars so I'll post here.

Have a friend in his late 20s (we aren't great friends, so I don't know his whole story, just as a disclaimer).  He has apparently always had a pickup truck as a "second" vehicle despite being single for most of his 20s/adult life.  He's not a contractor, doesn't really use it for construction projects, etc. etc.  At most, he gets decent use of it camping a couple times a year (from what he's told me) and maybe a football tailgate party once a year.

A recent girlfriend got him to think more about this idiotic vehicle situation.  His primary car was a Subaru WRX that was tricked out with turbo and whatnot (I think he said it was $30k brand new when he bought it).  So he traded it in along with his old pickup truck...and bought a brand new pickup.

On one hand, he finally consolidated two vehicles into one (a positive).  He only has two dogs he totes around so it makes sense.  But he bought a $25k+ truck, and part of the justification was it gets decent gas mileage....22 mpg on the highway!

It's just a "thing" to have a truck, I guess.  I see no use for it if it doesn't greatly benefit your job/side hustle.  You're just pissing away money to "look cool" in a truck all while paying nearly double what you need to in gas (I'm flustered if I get under 45 mpg).

I guess it's better than owning two vehicles for no reason, but still a head scratcher for me.

What's his job/income? If he makes enough, doesnt drive a ton and has money saved otherwised, it's not that outrageous of a vehicle choice.
Tt drives me nuts when friends have an expensive car but "can't afford to save anything." I've heard of people buying 40k trucks when they are completely broke. Another friend trades in leased fully loaded Rav4's every couple years and makes 25% more than me, was completely shocked when I tell her I can save 20% for retirement.

Respectfully disagree. If he's not driving it that much, then why did he buy it?  He still has to pay for gas, insurance, and maintenance.  His costs of ownership are double that of most sedans. Assuming he bought a new truck, he bought one of the less-expensive models so I might give him credit for that.

Fwiw, it's a new Tacoma.  I don't think he has very many mustachian principles (we don't discuss finances, so I don't know for sure).  It was just baffling to me why a guy in his 20's who only totes around two dogs and maybe some camping gear needs a huge pickup truck that will be lucky to get 20 mpg.

paddedhat

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 12:47:40 PM »
Wasn't sure where to put this, as it wasn't "overhead" at work or on facebook, but relates to cars so I'll post here.

Have a friend in his late 20s (we aren't great friends, so I don't know his whole story, just as a disclaimer).  He has apparently always had a pickup truck as a "second" vehicle despite being single for most of his 20s/adult life.  He's not a contractor, doesn't really use it for construction projects, etc. etc.  At most, he gets decent use of it camping a couple times a year (from what he's told me) and maybe a football tailgate party once a year.

A recent girlfriend got him to think more about this idiotic vehicle situation.  His primary car was a Subaru WRX that was tricked out with turbo and whatnot (I think he said it was $30k brand new when he bought it).  So he traded it in along with his old pickup truck...and bought a brand new pickup.

On one hand, he finally consolidated two vehicles into one (a positive).  He only has two dogs he totes around so it makes sense.  But he bought a $25k+ truck, and part of the justification was it gets decent gas mileage....22 mpg on the highway!

It's just a "thing" to have a truck, I guess.  I see no use for it if it doesn't greatly benefit your job/side hustle.  You're just pissing away money to "look cool" in a truck all while paying nearly double what you need to in gas (I'm flustered if I get under 45 mpg).

I guess it's better than owning two vehicles for no reason, but still a head scratcher for me.

What's his job/income? If he makes enough, doesnt drive a ton and has money saved otherwised, it's not that outrageous of a vehicle choice.
Tt drives me nuts when friends have an expensive car but "can't afford to save anything." I've heard of people buying 40k trucks when they are completely broke. Another friend trades in leased fully loaded Rav4's every couple years and makes 25% more than me, was completely shocked when I tell her I can save 20% for retirement.

Respectfully disagree. If he's not driving it that much, then why did he buy it?  He still has to pay for gas, insurance, and maintenance.  His costs of ownership are double that of most sedans. Assuming he bought a new truck, he bought one of the less-expensive models so I might give him credit for that.

Fwiw, it's a new Tacoma.  I don't think he has very many mustachian principles (we don't discuss finances, so I don't know for sure).  It was just baffling to me why a guy in his 20's who only totes around two dogs and maybe some camping gear needs a huge pickup truck that will be lucky to get 20 mpg.

Two thoughts. A Tacoma hardly qualifies as a "huge pick-up truck"  as it's one of the smallest available in the states. Ridiculous, large, and maybe a bad choice, but it's svelte compared to many truly huge trucks. Second, $25K really doesn't get you shit anymore when it comes to a new truck.  Stripped out, two wheel drive, and as basic as it gets, is $25K. The kind of thing that small businesses buy for light delivery work. The average chucklenut who just "can't be without a pick-up truck since they go camping, own a dog, and have a few bags of leaves to deal with" is typically in the $40K plus market to suit their "needs". When it comes to "manly" huge trucks, the 2500, F250 size stuff with a diesel, and all the bells and whistles, now you stepped into the $60-80K range. Might sound insane to us tightwads, but it's pretty normal for the consuming masses out there.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2017, 03:17:24 PM »
Whenever I need a truck for hauling something somewhere, I got to Home Depot and rent one for like $20 for an hour or so. I guess most people don't know that's available as an option. Or there's the "I wanna be cool" factor involved, I guess.

SisterX

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2017, 04:14:52 PM »
Two thoughts. A Tacoma hardly qualifies as a "huge pick-up truck"  as it's one of the smallest available in the states. Ridiculous, large, and maybe a bad choice, but it's svelte compared to many truly huge trucks. Second, $25K really doesn't get you shit anymore when it comes to a new truck.  Stripped out, two wheel drive, and as basic as it gets, is $25K. The kind of thing that small businesses buy for light delivery work. The average chucklenut who just "can't be without a pick-up truck since they go camping, own a dog, and have a few bags of leaves to deal with" is typically in the $40K plus market to suit their "needs". When it comes to "manly" huge trucks, the 2500, F250 size stuff with a diesel, and all the bells and whistles, now you stepped into the $60-80K range. Might sound insane to us tightwads, but it's pretty normal for the consuming masses out there.

No. Just no. It's an absolutely absurd purchase by someone who clearly doesn't need it. If it's useful for camping, so are plenty of other vehicles that get better gas mileage. What the hell is one person taking camping that it doesn't fit in a small vehicle?

Even if it's a small truck, it still gets shit gas mileage and it's clearly not a necessity for either work or lifestyle. It's not going to be useful in any capacity. It's for image and nothing else, and that's a stupid reason to waste so much money and so much oil.

Bolded your last sentence. Yes, yes it is insane. I don't care what the consuming masses consider normal. This is the antimustachian wall of shame and comedy for good reason. Stop trying to justify somebody else's stupid choice as if it's legitimate.

Travis

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2017, 04:19:49 PM »
Wasn't sure where to put this, as it wasn't "overhead" at work or on facebook, but relates to cars so I'll post here.

Have a friend in his late 20s (we aren't great friends, so I don't know his whole story, just as a disclaimer).  He has apparently always had a pickup truck as a "second" vehicle despite being single for most of his 20s/adult life.  He's not a contractor, doesn't really use it for construction projects, etc. etc.  At most, he gets decent use of it camping a couple times a year (from what he's told me) and maybe a football tailgate party once a year.

A recent girlfriend got him to think more about this idiotic vehicle situation.  His primary car was a Subaru WRX that was tricked out with turbo and whatnot (I think he said it was $30k brand new when he bought it).  So he traded it in along with his old pickup truck...and bought a brand new pickup.

On one hand, he finally consolidated two vehicles into one (a positive).  He only has two dogs he totes around so it makes sense.  But he bought a $25k+ truck, and part of the justification was it gets decent gas mileage....22 mpg on the highway!

It's just a "thing" to have a truck, I guess.  I see no use for it if it doesn't greatly benefit your job/side hustle.  You're just pissing away money to "look cool" in a truck all while paying nearly double what you need to in gas (I'm flustered if I get under 45 mpg).

I guess it's better than owning two vehicles for no reason, but still a head scratcher for me.

What's his job/income? If he makes enough, doesnt drive a ton and has money saved otherwised, it's not that outrageous of a vehicle choice.
Tt drives me nuts when friends have an expensive car but "can't afford to save anything." I've heard of people buying 40k trucks when they are completely broke. Another friend trades in leased fully loaded Rav4's every couple years and makes 25% more than me, was completely shocked when I tell her I can save 20% for retirement.

Respectfully disagree. If he's not driving it that much, then why did he buy it?  He still has to pay for gas, insurance, and maintenance.  His costs of ownership are double that of most sedans. Assuming he bought a new truck, he bought one of the less-expensive models so I might give him credit for that.

Fwiw, it's a new Tacoma.  I don't think he has very many mustachian principles (we don't discuss finances, so I don't know for sure).  It was just baffling to me why a guy in his 20's who only totes around two dogs and maybe some camping gear needs a huge pickup truck that will be lucky to get 20 mpg.

You can thank Sam Elliot's voice for that mindset.  In my line of work I'm surrounded by guys who own pickups for the manly factor.  I love my boss, but he's in the same category.  He owns an absolutely massive pickup and as far as I can tell he just commutes in it.

No. Just no. It's an absolutely absurd purchase by someone who clearly doesn't need it. If it's useful for camping, so are plenty of other vehicles that get better gas mileage. What the hell is one person taking camping that it doesn't fit in a small vehicle?

Even if it's a small truck, it still gets shit gas mileage and it's clearly not a necessity for either work or lifestyle. It's not going to be useful in any capacity. It's for image and nothing else, and that's a stupid reason to waste so much money and so much oil.

Bolded your last sentence. Yes, yes it is insane. I don't care what the consuming masses consider normal. This is the antimustachian wall of shame and comedy for good reason. Stop trying to justify somebody else's stupid choice as if it's legitimate.

One of our main purposes on this forum and this community is to break people of the mindset that an overpriced and unnecessary piece of machinery/technology/stuff is "normal."  If we waved off every purchase as "well everyone else is doing it," then why are we all here?

paddedhat

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2017, 05:19:13 PM »
Two thoughts. A Tacoma hardly qualifies as a "huge pick-up truck"  as it's one of the smallest available in the states. Ridiculous, large, and maybe a bad choice, but it's svelte compared to many truly huge trucks. Second, $25K really doesn't get you shit anymore when it comes to a new truck.  Stripped out, two wheel drive, and as basic as it gets, is $25K. The kind of thing that small businesses buy for light delivery work. The average chucklenut who just "can't be without a pick-up truck since they go camping, own a dog, and have a few bags of leaves to deal with" is typically in the $40K plus market to suit their "needs". When it comes to "manly" huge trucks, the 2500, F250 size stuff with a diesel, and all the bells and whistles, now you stepped into the $60-80K range. Might sound insane to us tightwads, but it's pretty normal for the consuming masses out there.

No. Just no. It's an absolutely absurd purchase by someone who clearly doesn't need it. If it's useful for camping, so are plenty of other vehicles that get better gas mileage. What the hell is one person taking camping that it doesn't fit in a small vehicle?

Even if it's a small truck, it still gets shit gas mileage and it's clearly not a necessity for either work or lifestyle. It's not going to be useful in any capacity. It's for image and nothing else, and that's a stupid reason to waste so much money and so much oil.

Bolded your last sentence. Yes, yes it is insane. I don't care what the consuming masses consider normal. This is the antimustachian wall of shame and comedy for good reason. Stop trying to justify somebody else's stupid choice as if it's legitimate.

Are you high? Where in the hell did you ever get the idea that I am trying to justify any of this stupidity? I spent a lifetime driving light duty trucks in the construction business, and have been involved with the RV hobby for decades, so oddly enough, I know a tiny bit on the subject. I was pointing out two things, that are facts. First, if you think a Tacoma is a "huge pickup truck" AND you are a resident of North America, you are mildly confused, as 95% of our truck market involves trucks that are significantly larger. Second, if  dropping $25K on a NEW truck is, in your mind, a huge expense, well, your about 40 to 200% low on your valuations, compared to the market. At no point do I endorse any of this silliness. 

Your response is a bit odd, and your "clearly not necessary for work" comment is interesting. You do understand that the economy of any first world country hums along due to virtual armies of techs. mechanics and tradesmen who can only get keep the big machine in motion IF they have a truck full of tools, material and parts to back them up. Who are you to decide who is worthy of needing a truck? If you would slow down a bit and actually READ what I wrote, instead of jumping on your high horse, it would be painfully obvious that I do not approve of any of the manly truck as a lifestyle statement bullshit. Jesus, chill out a bit. It is a forum thread, not worth stroking out over, FFS.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 05:29:54 PM by paddedhat »

SisterX

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2017, 09:30:37 AM »
paddedhat - When I said it wasn't necessary for work, I meant that it wasn't necessary for that particular person's work. (Which was stated in the original post about this vehicle.) That means it's lifestyle. And whether it's 25k new or 5k used, it's still an absurd waste and deserves to be mocked endlessly. Doesn't matter what market valuations are or your assessment of the truck industry in America as a whole. That person's choice was stupid, and you were making it out to seem like a light truck for 25k isn't actually a stupid choice for most of the people who own them. Your last sentence, about it being pretty normal for the consuming masses, gives it a pass. But no one here cares what is normal for the consuming masses. That's why we are here.

As it turns out, as a normal adult with a functioning brain, I do understand how our economy works. I even manage to see how it could work even better. For 90% of people, they don't need their dumbass trucks in any way shape or form. And I've driven/owned a truck before myself for legit reasons, since you seem to think that I'm just some silly little person who doesn't know what I'm talking about.

paddedhat

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2017, 02:06:05 PM »
paddedhat - When I said it wasn't necessary for work, I meant that it wasn't necessary for that particular person's work. (Which was stated in the original post about this vehicle.) That means it's lifestyle. And whether it's 25k new or 5k used, it's still an absurd waste and deserves to be mocked endlessly. Doesn't matter what market valuations are or your assessment of the truck industry in America as a whole. That person's choice was stupid, and you were making it out to seem like a light truck for 25k isn't actually a stupid choice for most of the people who own them. Your last sentence, about it being pretty normal for the consuming masses, gives it a pass. But no one here cares what is normal for the consuming masses. That's why we are here.
As it turns out, as a normal adult with a functioning brain, I do understand how our economy works. I even manage to see how it could work even better. For 90% of people, they don't need their dumbass trucks in any way shape or form. And I've driven/owned a truck before myself for legit reasons, since you seem to think that I'm just some silly little person who doesn't know what I'm talking about.


Once again, are you stoned, or just have an extraordinary ability to project your militant beliefs into the writings of others, without a single fucking shred of evidence that you are correct?  At NO point did I "make it out to seem like" anything. You are projecting your assumptions and opinion, and they have nothing to do with reality.  At NO point did my comment about what is normal for typical consumer suckers, state anything but facts.  it simply cannot be misconstrued as an approval of such decisions. In fact my original post here makes it quite clear that I strongly disapprove of driving clown trucks. You apparently chose to ignore the following language in my post, as you twisted my comments:

"Ridiculous, large, and maybe a bad choice"

"The average chucklenut who just "can't be without a pick-up truck since they go camping, own a dog, and have a few bags of leaves to deal with"

"When it comes to "manly" huge trucks"

"Might sound insane to us tightwads, but it's pretty normal for the consuming masses out there."



I really have no idea what your issue is, but please direct your wrath elsewhere, and stop with this tortured attempt to twist the obvious to suit your strange agenda.





TexasStash

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2017, 04:53:18 PM »
It is shocking to me that you can't see how what you wrote sounds like at least a partial justification of the person buying the truck. And using the "are you high?" Defense was the cherry on top.


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SisterX

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2017, 05:31:29 PM »
Paddedhat - you are the only one in this thread with wrath. Since I can clearly read in your post history that you don't seem to enjoy anyone pointing out your flawed arguments (as evidence, I submit your recent beef with GuitarStv's rather mild comments that you victim-blame cyclists for getting run over) and I'm clearly not going to change your mind.

It's incredibly bad form when you have an argument with someone to, without any evidence, say such things as "are you high?" No, no I'm not. To throw that in there is to try to cloud the issue, and if you can't prove that I'm wrong in a sane and logical way you're just going to try to muddy the waters.

I'm also not the one getting all worked up over this and using profanity. You're being ridiculous, and this is the point at which I am done arguing with a silly internet stranger.

paddedhat

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2017, 06:03:43 PM »
Paddedhat - you are the only one in this thread with wrath. Since I can clearly read in your post history that you don't seem to enjoy anyone pointing out your flawed arguments (as evidence, I submit your recent beef with GuitarStv's rather mild comments that you victim-blame cyclists for getting run over) and I'm clearly not going to change your mind.

It's incredibly bad form when you have an argument with someone to, without any evidence, say such things as "are you high?" No, no I'm not. To throw that in there is to try to cloud the issue, and if you can't prove that I'm wrong in a sane and logical way you're just going to try to muddy the waters.

I'm also not the one getting all worked up over this and using profanity. You're being ridiculous, and this is the point at which I am done arguing with a silly internet stranger.

Cool, perhaps you can now locate another member here, or as you call them "silly internet stranger", twist their words, and accuse them of expressing the exact opposite of what they obviously said. Curious as to how it's a "flaw" of mine to be unwilling to tolerate your bizarre interpretations of what I clearly said? As for reviewing my post history, FFS, seriously? In the last two decades of being on various forums, I have searched another member's post history, I can't remember how many times? Oh wait, the answer is NEVER.  Sad.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2017, 06:09:40 PM »
People sure get worked up over cars. I guess there's a reason why Madison Avenue ad executives get such massive bonuses each year. Even people who realize that they need to save and invest still get sucked into the idea that their car is a reflection of their value as a person. So many people -- both out there in the world and on this forum -- need to unplug from the Matrix and recognize how they have been brainwashed into believing that they have no worth beyond their material possessions. Possessions that become obsolete and decay before our very eyes.

SisterX

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2017, 09:09:24 AM »
Paddedhat - you are the only one in this thread with wrath. Since I can clearly read in your post history that you don't seem to enjoy anyone pointing out your flawed arguments (as evidence, I submit your recent beef with GuitarStv's rather mild comments that you victim-blame cyclists for getting run over) and I'm clearly not going to change your mind.

It's incredibly bad form when you have an argument with someone to, without any evidence, say such things as "are you high?" No, no I'm not. To throw that in there is to try to cloud the issue, and if you can't prove that I'm wrong in a sane and logical way you're just going to try to muddy the waters.

I'm also not the one getting all worked up over this and using profanity. You're being ridiculous, and this is the point at which I am done arguing with a silly internet stranger.

Cool, perhaps you can now locate another member here, or as you call them "silly internet stranger", twist their words, and accuse them of expressing the exact opposite of what they obviously said. Curious as to how it's a "flaw" of mine to be unwilling to tolerate your bizarre interpretations of what I clearly said? As for reviewing my post history, FFS, seriously? In the last two decades of being on various forums, I have searched another member's post history, I can't remember how many times? Oh wait, the answer is NEVER.  Sad.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I actually reviewed your post history. I just happened to also stumble across that thread and shook my head at how this bizarre level of overreaction to someone disagreeing with you or pointing out how silly you are seems to be a trend.

Samuel

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2017, 09:41:48 AM »
That person's choice was stupid, and you were making it out to seem like a light truck for 25k isn't actually a stupid choice for most of the people who own them. Your last sentence, about it being pretty normal for the consuming masses, gives it a pass.

That's not how I read it. Pointing out that a 25k new truck is actually pretty modest by conventional standards is not giving anyone a pass, it's simply stating a fact. Yes the guy is being dumb but could have been much, much dumber if he was being fully unconscious and truly "conventional". 

And lets not gloss over that fact that the guy also went from a tricked out WRX and a pickup truck to a single vehicle chosen with at least some restraint. By mustachian standards a dumb move and clearly facepunch worthy, but in the grand scheme of things it's actually a step in the right direction. The guy may be starting on the path!

paddedhat

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2017, 10:42:03 AM »
Paddedhat - you are the only one in this thread with wrath. Since I can clearly read in your post history that you don't seem to enjoy anyone pointing out your flawed arguments (as evidence, I submit your recent beef with GuitarStv's rather mild comments that you victim-blame cyclists for getting run over) and I'm clearly not going to change your mind.

It's incredibly bad form when you have an argument with someone to, without any evidence, say such things as "are you high?" No, no I'm not. To throw that in there is to try to cloud the issue, and if you can't prove that I'm wrong in a sane and logical way you're just going to try to muddy the waters.

I'm also not the one getting all worked up over this and using profanity. You're being ridiculous, and this is the point at which I am done arguing with a silly internet stranger.

Cool, perhaps you can now locate another member here, or as you call them "silly internet stranger", twist their words, and accuse them of expressing the exact opposite of what they obviously said. Curious as to how it's a "flaw" of mine to be unwilling to tolerate your bizarre interpretations of what I clearly said? As for reviewing my post history, FFS, seriously? In the last two decades of being on various forums, I have searched another member's post history, I can't remember how many times? Oh wait, the answer is NEVER.  Sad.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I actually reviewed your post history. I just happened to also stumble across that thread and shook my head at how this bizarre level of overreaction to someone disagreeing with you or pointing out how silly you are seems to be a trend.

You didn't "Imply" anything. You read my post history, cherry picked something that you believed to fit your narrative, and then admitted to doing so.  Honestly, this is degrading into the caliber of a Kellyanne Conway interview. There are obvious truths here, and then there is your Conwayesque spin on the truth.

As for the bike thread, there are two clear camps on that issue, and like many,  I think it's asinine to engage in dangerous, and deliberate behavior, (in this case, riding in low visibility, with no lighting, while dressed to exactly match the color of the paving) and justify this behavior with, "well, if you hit me, you are at fault". No, dumbass, if anybody hits you, it's because you worked hard to be invisible in a low visibility conditions, and are now severely injured, or dead because of your idiocy. The fact that the driver of the vehicle receives a citation, and small fine, is of little conciliation to your next of kin. I make no apologies for anything I wrote there, and there is no reason to.  If you want to engage in a risky activity, while doing so in the stupidest manner possible, and end up earning a Darwin Award, well it's not like you didn't earn it. Babbling about what the law is, and stupidity like, "my rights as a bicyclist" is of little use, if you get your dumb ass run flat, since you didn't have enough sense to bother to make yourself seen. No different that the Harley riders that dress like pirates, all in black,  and only ride, helmetless, from bar to bar, on weekends.  They end up dead, often hit by other drivers, since they are nearly invisible, have a measurable BAC, and are too "cool" to wear a helmet.  Of course, at the funeral, all the other pirates blame the "moron who made a left turn in front of " the dearly departed. Personal responsibility, and poor choices have consequences, who knew? How dare I express facts like that on a forum like this, eh?

Oddly enough, since you admitted to searching my post history for evidence that my thinking is contrary to your militancy, I know you hit this recent paragraph of mine. I'm curious as to why you chose to ignore it? The topic is of somebody questioning why they are being singled out since they were bragging about their "need" to spend 5x as much as necessary for a quality mattress, since it's important to have the best:


This is about doing the exact opposite of what you claim. It's about sharing knowledge, education and experience to do more with less, and not spend your life chained to a job, while keeping the consumer sucker hamster wheel spinning. If your opening line is, "mattresses are one area where I spend serious money" The response here IS going to be, "why are you bragging about poor decision making skills, and wasting money?"  NOT, "cool, we are all about needless spending and wasting money, since it brings you the most joy in your life" Most consumers willingly get screwed over by purchasing entire categories of products and services, from insurance and extended warranties, to mattresses and even funeral services. Being a stache is about knowing how and why those sectors of the economy are designed to rob you, and how to hack your way around it. Not bragging about spending "serious money" to bring yourself joy. That entire concept is a fallacy.


I guess it was probably a pretty good idea for you to ignore that, since it is more proof that you are totally wrong when it comes to your assumptions, supposition, and failed attempt to twist my writing. I'm sure Samuel, in the previous post isn't  the only one that is clear that you have made repeated, failed attempts to put words in my mouth. Now, seriously, it's time to move on. I'm sure you can find a new target for this odd behavior of yours.


mm1970

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2017, 11:53:35 AM »
Whenever I need a truck for hauling something somewhere, I got to Home Depot and rent one for like $20 for an hour or so. I guess most people don't know that's available as an option. Or there's the "I wanna be cool" factor involved, I guess.
Last time we tried to do that we couldn't. Because someone stole the Home Depot truck.

Trucks/ cars/ driving are funny.  10 years ago I worked at a company.  Two of my coworkers lived right next to work.  As in, 0.4 to 0.5 miles from work.  They drove to work, every day (ya know, it's So Cal, very mild weather).  I couldn't believe it.  BUT, even though they drove to work and drove home for lunch, they were still driving less than I was.  My commute was 11 miles.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2017, 02:35:49 PM »
People sure get worked up over cars. I guess there's a reason why Madison Avenue ad executives get such massive bonuses each year. Even people who realize that they need to save and invest still get sucked into the idea that their car is a reflection of their value as a person. So many people -- both out there in the world and on this forum -- need to unplug from the Matrix and recognize how they have been brainwashed into believing that they have no worth beyond their material possessions. Possessions that become obsolete and decay before our very eyes.

Not surprised, particularly in this case.  A lot of people get sucked in by the "Tesla=Cool" factor. FIRE forums seem to attract an above-average share of tech-y types that are particularly susceptible to the Tesla factor.

I'm a Tesla-skeptic, though, so maybe I'm biased.

Syonyk

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2017, 09:44:20 PM »
Subaru and truck.

How much snow do you get and how's his driveway?

That sounds like a reasonable set of vehicles for heavy snow country. Last year, our car spent a month sitting unable to leave the property.

DarkandStormy

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2017, 07:22:59 AM »
Subaru and truck.

How much snow do you get and how's his driveway?

That sounds like a reasonable set of vehicles for heavy snow country. Last year, our car spent a month sitting unable to leave the property.

Average annual snowfall is less than 30 inches.  Some snow, yes, but not in the snow belt.  I get around find in a subcompact car.

paddedhat

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2017, 08:19:18 AM »
The whole definition of "snow country" and it's use to justify expensive four wheel drive vehicles is pretty pathetic.  We spend some time is rural parts of Canada, starting about two decades back.  At that point it was nothing to be in Rural BC, or even the Maritimes, where they get 100+ inches a year, and see towns where SUVs were a rare sight, and front wheel drive minivans prevailed. Since then, it's still a pretty common sight, but the oil money out west has twisted things a bit, with SUVs and brodozers being a lot more common.  Of course, at the same time you can be a 1000 miles south in the states, where snow totals are 90% less on a "bad" year, and try not to roll your eyes as a Tahoe owner explains that they leased a $55K monument to stupidity,  because "safety" and so they can "get where they need to be, when it gets rough out there"  Now, to believe this delusion you need to ignore the fact that a huge percentage of moderate climate, low snow total residents pee their pants, run in circles, race to the store to buy all the bread, eggs and milk they can find, and hide inside for a few days........................ as soon as the yapping head on the weather channel calls for a "major storm". 8/10 times, this "major storm" magically blows on by with no snow, or dumps a life altering, "storm of the century"  3-4 inches of the stuff. 

Somewhere, the original marketer who dreamed up the whole "need" for  expensive SUVs, is doing a happy dance, since he or she changed the world, and made countless billions on something that few need, many cannot afford, and most just have to have.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2017, 08:34:55 AM »
I estimate that 80-90% of vehicles I see at the parking lots of the ski resorts in the Cascades are AWD/4WD. It's nuts.

paddedhat

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2017, 08:57:16 AM »
I estimate that 80-90% of vehicles I see at the parking lots of the ski resorts in the Cascades are AWD/4WD. It's nuts.

Absolutely. We used to live in the middle of ski resort country in the northeast. We spent decades driving around clueless operators of 4wd SUVs that were stuck on the slightest grades, or off in ditches.  All it took was a cheap front wheel drive sedan, riding four Blizzak winter tires on cheap steel rims. I used to try to keep my mailbox standing upright, but often lost the battle to cars sliding off the shoulder, and hitting it like a bowling pin. On two occasions I fished an SUV out of the field after they wiped the box out. Both times it was a 4wd with four bald tires. LOL, some people think that plastic "4X4" sticker on the side is magic.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 09:42:50 AM by paddedhat »

dycker1978

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2017, 10:13:00 AM »
Wasn't sure where to put this, as it wasn't "overhead" at work or on facebook, but relates to cars so I'll post here.

Have a friend in his late 20s (we aren't great friends, so I don't know his whole story, just as a disclaimer).  He has apparently always had a pickup truck as a "second" vehicle despite being single for most of his 20s/adult life.  He's not a contractor, doesn't really use it for construction projects, etc. etc.  At most, he gets decent use of it camping a couple times a year (from what he's told me) and maybe a football tailgate party once a year.

A recent girlfriend got him to think more about this idiotic vehicle situation.  His primary car was a Subaru WRX that was tricked out with turbo and whatnot (I think he said it was $30k brand new when he bought it).  So he traded it in along with his old pickup truck...and bought a brand new pickup.

On one hand, he finally consolidated two vehicles into one (a positive).  He only has two dogs he totes around so it makes sense.  But he bought a $25k+ truck, and part of the justification was it gets decent gas mileage....22 mpg on the highway!

It's just a "thing" to have a truck, I guess.  I see no use for it if it doesn't greatly benefit your job/side hustle.  You're just pissing away money to "look cool" in a truck all while paying nearly double what you need to in gas (I'm flustered if I get under 45 mpg).

I guess it's better than owning two vehicles for no reason, but still a head scratcher for me.

What's his job/income? If he makes enough, doesnt drive a ton and has money saved otherwised, it's not that outrageous of a vehicle choice.
Tt drives me nuts when friends have an expensive car but "can't afford to save anything." I've heard of people buying 40k trucks when they are completely broke. Another friend trades in leased fully loaded Rav4's every couple years and makes 25% more than me, was completely shocked when I tell her I can save 20% for retirement.

Respectfully disagree. If he's not driving it that much, then why did he buy it?  He still has to pay for gas, insurance, and maintenance.  His costs of ownership are double that of most sedans. Assuming he bought a new truck, he bought one of the less-expensive models so I might give him credit for that.

A truck is always a terrible choice, unless you are contracting and need it. 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/04/28/what-does-your-work-truck-say-about-you/


dycker1978

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2017, 10:26:24 AM »
Subaru and truck.

How much snow do you get and how's his driveway?

That sounds like a reasonable set of vehicles for heavy snow country. Last year, our car spent a month sitting unable to leave the property.

Really? 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/12/01/all-wheel-drive-does-not-make-you-safer/

I drive a front wheel drive in Saskachewan Canada.  I can count the days on one finger where the only way you could get around was in a 4wd or a truck.  We will get 20-30 cm of snow 3-4 times a winter, overnight and my car works fine. 

Dragonswan

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2017, 10:54:41 AM »
.  Of course, at the same time you can be a 1000 miles south in the states, where snow totals are 90% less on a "bad" year, and try not to roll your eyes as a Tahoe owner explains that they leased a $55K monument to stupidity,  because "safety" and so they can "get where they need to be, when it gets rough out there"  Now, to believe this delusion you need to ignore the fact that a huge percentage of moderate climate, low snow total residents pee their pants, run in circles, race to the store to buy all the bread, eggs and milk they can find, and hide inside for a few days........................ as soon as the yapping head on the weather channel calls for a "major storm". 8/10 times, this "major storm" magically blows on by with no snow, or dumps a life altering, "storm of the century"  3-4 inches of the stuff. 

So you've been to the DC/MD/NOVA area just before and during a crop dusting?  Because that is exactly what happens.

Syonyk

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2017, 12:36:22 PM »
Really? 

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/12/01/all-wheel-drive-does-not-make-you-safer/

I drive a front wheel drive in Saskachewan Canada.  I can count the days on one finger where the only way you could get around was in a 4wd or a truck.  We will get 20-30 cm of snow 3-4 times a winter, overnight and my car works fine.

I'm familiar.  And it depends on where you live and how much ground clearance you need.  In general, a truck will have more ground clearance, which can be important for getting out of some driveways.  It just depends on where you live and what you're doing.  If you need the ground clearance, you probably also benefit from 4WD.

If you've got an area with good road maintenance, you can probably do just fine with a car.  If not, well, it depends on the road and driveway conditions.  I spent a good chunk of last winter digging the tractor out of the driveway trying to plow (bad drifting with the winds we had), and in those conditions, I struggled to get the truck out of the driveway.  The car, even with snow tires, won't make it through 2.5' drifts.  And that's my driveway to clear, so it's not like I can wait for the city to come past.

And on top of that, I make regular use of my truck around the property and for heading out camping interesting places.  I've got quite a bit of basalt sticking out of the ground, so without decent ground clearance I'd be banging things on rocks (and hauling basalt out of the ground for building is one of the things I use the truck for) - and my car is poorly suited for hauling a lot of basalt/wood/gravel/etc.  A trailer won't help, since I can't physically get the car around the property.  I can get around the property and the hill in RWD, but I end up ripping up the ground a lot more than if I use 4WD to crawl around when heavy.

The reflexive "Nobody needs a truck!" thing here is pretty absurd.  Without knowing a lot more about someone's use cases and how they use the vehicle, I think it's hard to say concretely that it's a bad idea or not.  Quite a few trucks aren't used for truck-stuff regularly, but if one doesn't drive much and does need a truck somewhat regularly, it may be more reasonable than owning multiple vehicles.  I've got a "fuckall huge" truck (to borrow a phrase from Seattle), and I work from home (which is the few acres of basalt hillside mentioned above).  We've got a car and my wife and daughter take it into town somewhat regularly, but if it were just me living out here?  I generally don't go through that much diesel even if I take the truck everywhere, and a lot of the places I take it are to pick up things for the property that I simply can't fit in a car.  Yes, you can do work with a trailer, and I tow a trailer as well (well beyond what a car can tow) when needed (6k-10k lbs, typically).

Now, to believe this delusion you need to ignore the fact that a huge percentage of moderate climate, low snow total residents pee their pants, run in circles, race to the store to buy all the bread, eggs and milk they can find, and hide inside for a few days........................ as soon as the yapping head on the weather channel calls for a "major storm". 8/10 times, this "major storm" magically blows on by with no snow, or dumps a life altering, "storm of the century"  3-4 inches of the stuff.

Yeah.  Well, having to race to the store for supplies just speaks to bad preparedness in general.  My current plan is to buffer about 3 months of basic foodstuffs before winter hits, because if it's much worse than last winter, we may be hiking to town.  The area is not equipped for heavy snowfalls, and we sure got it last year.

paddedhat

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2017, 02:04:50 PM »

Yeah.  Well, having to race to the store for supplies just speaks to bad preparedness in general. 

I would agree, but in reality it has nothing to do with preparedness, it's more of a learned panic reaction to what is typically a non-event. We have been through everything from a week where it never got to 0*F and hovered at -26* for a few days, to a eight days of no power from Sandy. At no point were we unable to say, "screw this we are heading out to a restaurant, hotel, or whatever". It might of been an hour drive, but it was quite doable, even in the worst of conditions. This was from three decades of rural living in the northeast. Yet, literally, if some chucklenut says we are getting half a foot of snow, there is a total run on bread, milk and eggs, leaving grocery stores empty. We started to call these pseudo crisis events, "French Toast Emergencies".

Syonyk

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2017, 02:11:15 PM »
I would agree, but in reality it has nothing to do with preparedness, it's more of a learned panic reaction to what is typically a non-event.

True.  And seems to be a city thing.

Quote
We have been through everything from a week where it never got to 0*F and hovered at -26* for a few days, to a eight days of no power from Sandy. At no point were we unable to say, "screw this we are heading out to a restaurant, hotel, or whatever". It might of been an hour drive, but it was quite doable, even in the worst of conditions. This was from three decades of rural living in the northeast. Yet, literally, if some chucklenut says we are getting half a foot of snow, there is a total run on bread, milk and eggs, leaving grocery stores empty. We started to call these pseudo crisis events, "French Toast Emergencies".

Fair.  Meanwhile, last winter, I had quite a few days where leaving the property at all was questionable (well, could have walked, but that would have been quite a hike into town).  The tractor not starting after a particularly nasty night didn't help the second half of the winter. :/  I fell behind there and never really caught up until spring (and had to borrow a tractor with a bucket on the front to get things clear once or twice).  We had something like 3x the average annual snowfall, and it never once melted (normally snow is a "snows, melts in a few days" type event).

And I'm glad we had the truck, because that was the only way my wife & daughter were getting out.  I could get my sidecar rig out most of the time, though it also spent a few days firmly stuck in snow drifts.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Reddit FI on buying cars
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2017, 03:02:03 PM »
If you've got an area with good road maintenance, you can probably do just fine with a car.  If not, well, it depends on the road and driveway conditions.  I spent a good chunk of last winter digging the tractor out of the driveway trying to plow (bad drifting with the winds we had), and in those conditions, I struggled to get the truck out of the driveway.  The car, even with snow tires, won't make it through 2.5' drifts.  And that's my driveway to clear, so it's not like I can wait for the city to come past.

And on top of that, I make regular use of my truck around the property and for heading out camping interesting places.  I've got quite a bit of basalt sticking out of the ground, so without decent ground clearance I'd be banging things on rocks (and hauling basalt out of the ground for building is one of the things I use the truck for) - and my car is poorly suited for hauling a lot of basalt/wood/gravel/etc.  A trailer won't help, since I can't physically get the car around the property.  I can get around the property and the hill in RWD, but I end up ripping up the ground a lot more than if I use 4WD to crawl around when heavy.

The reflexive "Nobody needs a truck!" thing here is pretty absurd.  Without knowing a lot more about someone's use cases and how they use the vehicle, I think it's hard to say concretely that it's a bad idea or not.  Quite a few trucks aren't used for truck-stuff regularly, but if one doesn't drive much and does need a truck somewhat regularly, it may be more reasonable than owning multiple vehicles.  I've got a "fuckall huge" truck (to borrow a phrase from Seattle), and I work from home (which is the few acres of basalt hillside mentioned above).  We've got a car and my wife and daughter take it into town somewhat regularly, but if it were just me living out here?  I generally don't go through that much diesel even if I take the truck everywhere, and a lot of the places I take it are to pick up things for the property that I simply can't fit in a car.  Yes, you can do work with a trailer, and I tow a trailer as well (well beyond what a car can tow) when needed (6k-10k lbs, typically).
It sounds like you have a legitimate use for a truck. Most people don't, and that's why they get shit for it here.

The idea that tradesmen need pickup trucks to carry toolboxes and a couple power tools is laughable. Outside North America they drive 2 wheel drive cars and utility vans, and buildings get built just fine.