Author Topic: My Antimustachian Girlfriend Ran up $10k in CC Debt and I **Want** to help  (Read 8048 times)

J.P. MoreGains

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Seems like a bad situation to me. "Partners" are often cost centers and not profit centers. Not much of a partnership.

A lot of men end up in bad relationships for lack of other options... the fear of being perpetually single and actually being single for years on end will lead men to take the only option that presents itself even if it's bad news.

Not saying that's you... but if you could break up with this girl and you knew you could meet a new girl within a month that had a lot to offer would you?

In home improvement sales, think windows, siding, solar, etc. they go door to door to canvass just to find a sale. Out of 100 houses they'll have a lot of doors slammed in their faces, some people say their interested just to flake... but they'll get one sale out of it.

What if you went and talked to 100 girls and tried to meet someone new? You'd have to think you could get at least a few dates, meet some new people, have some new experiences and you'd probably get a new girlfriend and see you have better options than a long distance girlfriend you can't see often that isn't on the same path as you.

That's what I would do.

Metalcat

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Seems like a bad situation to me. "Partners" are often cost centers and not profit centers. Not much of a partnership.

A lot of men end up in bad relationships for lack of other options... the fear of being perpetually single and actually being single for years on end will lead men to take the only option that presents itself even if it's bad news.

Not saying that's you... but if you could break up with this girl and you knew you could meet a new girl within a month that had a lot to offer would you?

In home improvement sales, think windows, siding, solar, etc. they go door to door to canvass just to find a sale. Out of 100 houses they'll have a lot of doors slammed in their faces, some people say their interested just to flake... but they'll get one sale out of it.

What if you went and talked to 100 girls and tried to meet someone new? You'd have to think you could get at least a few dates, meet some new people, have some new experiences and you'd probably get a new girlfriend and see you have better options than a long distance girlfriend you can't see often that isn't on the same path as you.

That's what I would do.

I generally find that telling someone their relationship is disposable isn't received very well.

Also, I get your point, but folks who believe their options are limited aren't likely to internalize the message that they have plenty of options. They just write you off as completely out of touch with their lived experience. It will make them tune out all of your message.

It's very challenging to combat a scarcity mindset because that's what feels "safe" to the person.

We also have no idea what the basis of their relationship is. It's always possible that with her being very religious that her expectation has always been that she would get married to a primary breadwinner who would take full financial responsibility for the family unit, and be a stay at home spouse. And for all we know, OP might be totally into that.

That's why I asked if OP is comfortable with that scenario, if they have talked about it.

For all we know, she might be an ideal partner for OP if that's the kind of partnership they're looking to have. Plenty of people in the world do. It's certainly not common among the population here, but we do have a few and off the top of my head, they tend to be the ones who rave about their spouses. It's also very common over at Bogleheads.

It's not for any of us to decide that she's a bad partner for OP. She is very clearly not great at being a self sufficient independent adult, that much is absolutely evident.

OP doesn't need to be pushed to leave her, but does need to be pushed to be certain that this is the type of partner who they want to have to handle all of the challenges of life with.

So I do FULLY support your point of OP asking themselves if a bunch of other women were readily available as potential partners, would this one still seem like the best option?? That's a really legit question for any of us to ask ourselves.

Loneliness and fear of loneliness can be a powerful motivator, so it's important to assess how much of choosing to be with someone is driven by fear of being without someone.

Again, scarcity mindset is very hard to overcome.

My main point is though that telling someone they shouldn't love who they love is about the fastest, most efficient strategy for getting them to tune out any advice you have to offer them.

AMandM

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IMHO, along the lines of what partgypsy and TheGrimSqueaker said, your girlfriend does not have a financial problem, she has a maturity problem. She has created the financial problem by choosing to do what she feels like rather than what is necessary--in other words, choosing immediate over deferred gratification, which is the hallmark of immaturity. I don't mean to suggest that she's a bad person, only that she has some growing up to do in order to be able to address her finances and any of the host of other problems that may arise in the course of her future.

You want to help her, which is generous, but that manifests itself as an impulse to play the role of parent, telling her how she needs to change, figuring out how to handle her money, and so on. This may be detrimental in the long run, as it keeps her in an adolescent position.

To be clear, I am not saying you should break up with her, but I do think that the maturity is an issue regardless of the money. Being ready to do the hard but needed tasks instead of the pleasant but unconstructive ones is crucial for the happiness of any marriage.

J.P. MoreGains

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I generally find that telling someone their relationship is disposable isn't received very well.

Also, I get your point, but folks who believe their options are limited aren't likely to internalize the message that they have plenty of options. They just write you off as completely out of touch with their lived experience. It will make them tune out all of your message.


@Metalcat You know what I agree with you, I came across here as really abrasive. Definitely not the best delivery on things. So any good point I try to make gets lost.

J.P. MoreGains

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@fpjeepy Sorry for coming across like that... I can be rough around the edges so hope you weren't upset by that. I tend to see things as too transactional so I come across as jerky. Do your thing, I'm just some random 44 year old guy on the internet trying to get his finances in order, don't listen to me.

Metalcat

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I generally find that telling someone their relationship is disposable isn't received very well.

Also, I get your point, but folks who believe their options are limited aren't likely to internalize the message that they have plenty of options. They just write you off as completely out of touch with their lived experience. It will make them tune out all of your message.


@Metalcat You know what I agree with you, I came across here as really abrasive. Definitely not the best delivery on things. So any good point I try to make gets lost.

It's taken me a long time to temper my own harsh directness. Sometimes when you know you really mean well, it's hard to anticipate that it could be taken poorly.

iris lily

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I generally find that telling someone their relationship is disposable isn't received very well.

Also, I get your point, but folks who believe their options are limited aren't likely to internalize the message that they have plenty of options. They just write you off as completely out of touch with their lived experience. It will make them tune out all of your message.



@Metalcat You know what I agree with you, I came across here as really abrasive. Definitely not the best delivery on things. So any good point I try to make gets lost.

Ok, but I did enjoy “Partners are often cost centers not profit centers.” Made me chuckle.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2023, 02:21:09 PM by iris lily »

Dicey

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Not saying you should split up, that's your call.

I AM saying you should not solve her financial problems.  Hard stop.

She needs to grow up. You solving her problems will not allow her the satisfaction of learning how to behave like a responsible adult.

My brother's GF refused to marry him as long as he had debt, including any possible engagement ring. He worked his ass off to pay everything off and pay cash for a ring. They've been married nearly twenty-five years. They are spendier than many mustachians, but their finances are rock-solid.

I appreciate the advice. I actually came here more for technical guidance, not relationship advice. I want to get her card off the high interest she is paying now. I know nothing about debt consolidation, but ideally, I would to find a company that will pay off the credit cards so I can chop them up. Then she can get a lower (hopefully) interest rate and pay one company monthly until she clears things. Is that not how debt consolidation works? Does the government subsidize the lower interest rate if you can prove that you don't make enough money? Are there any programs that help? I feel like I see commercials all the time for it. Or is it best if she tries to bounce around on the introductory offer balance transfer thing?
Wow, somehow I missed this response.  You want us to figure out how to discharge her debt? Debt she ran up of her own free will? And you don't see the connection between her choices and the future of your relationship? I apologize. I only responded because I thought I had something useful to add to the conversation.  I see now that I was mistaken. Best of luck to you.

englishteacheralex

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Not saying you should split up, that's your call.

I AM saying you should not solve her financial problems.  Hard stop.

She needs to grow up. You solving her problems will not allow her the satisfaction of learning how to behave like a responsible adult.

My brother's GF refused to marry him as long as he had debt, including any possible engagement ring. He worked his ass off to pay everything off and pay cash for a ring. They've been married nearly twenty-five years. They are spendier than many mustachians, but their finances are rock-solid.

I appreciate the advice. I actually came here more for technical guidance, not relationship advice. I want to get her card off the high interest she is paying now. I know nothing about debt consolidation, but ideally, I would to find a company that will pay off the credit cards so I can chop them up. Then she can get a lower (hopefully) interest rate and pay one company monthly until she clears things. Is that not how debt consolidation works? Does the government subsidize the lower interest rate if you can prove that you don't make enough money? Are there any programs that help? I feel like I see commercials all the time for it. Or is it best if she tries to bounce around on the introductory offer balance transfer thing?
Wow, somehow I missed this response.  You want us to figure out how to discharge her debt? Debt she ran up of her own free will? And you don't see the connection between her choices and the future of your relationship? I apologize. I only responded because I thought I had something useful to add to the conversation.  I see now that I was mistaken. Best of luck to you.

I think the OP is long gone. The request for technical info here seems like a bunch of wishful thinking. No magic way out, bud. Just gotta pay the bills. Pretty sure there's no government program for credit card debt.

Dicey

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Not saying you should split up, that's your call.

I AM saying you should not solve her financial problems.  Hard stop.

She needs to grow up. You solving her problems will not allow her the satisfaction of learning how to behave like a responsible adult.

My brother's GF refused to marry him as long as he had debt, including any possible engagement ring. He worked his ass off to pay everything off and pay cash for a ring. They've been married nearly twenty-five years. They are spendier than many mustachians, but their finances are rock-solid.

I appreciate the advice. I actually came here more for technical guidance, not relationship advice. I want to get her card off the high interest she is paying now. I know nothing about debt consolidation, but ideally, I would to find a company that will pay off the credit cards so I can chop them up. Then she can get a lower (hopefully) interest rate and pay one company monthly until she clears things. Is that not how debt consolidation works? Does the government subsidize the lower interest rate if you can prove that you don't make enough money? Are there any programs that help? I feel like I see commercials all the time for it. Or is it best if she tries to bounce around on the introductory offer balance transfer thing?
Wow, somehow I missed this response.  You want us to figure out how to discharge her debt? Debt she ran up of her own free will? And you don't see the connection between her choices and the future of your relationship? I apologize. I only responded because I thought I had something useful to add to the conversation.  I see now that I was mistaken. Best of luck to you.

I think the OP is long gone. The request for technical info here seems like a bunch of wishful thinking. No magic way out, bud. Just gotta pay the bills. Pretty sure there's no government program for credit card debt.
I agree. I was actually checking to see when his last post on this thread was when I found the response I quoted.

FINate

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I appreciate the advice. I actually came here more for technical guidance, not relationship advice. I want to get her card off the high interest she is paying now. I know nothing about debt consolidation, but ideally, I would to find a company that will pay off the credit cards so I can chop them up. Then she can get a lower (hopefully) interest rate and pay one company monthly until she clears things. Is that not how debt consolidation works? Does the government subsidize the lower interest rate if you can prove that you don't make enough money? Are there any programs that help? I feel like I see commercials all the time for it. Or is it best if she tries to bounce around on the introductory offer balance transfer thing?

I also missed this response... Kinda surprised anyone believes there are companies that pay off credit card debt for people. The money has to come from somewhere, what would be the business model?

On the other hand, I guess it's not that surprising. I'm in my mid 40s and the middle-age version of this is from friends who are desperate to stop working. These are generally folks who've never saved or invested or thought about retirement. Always somewhat awkward to explain there's no quick hack or secret investment strategy, and that I started saving and investing at age 19, worked to increase my income, spent way less than we made, and regularly put funds into our investments for 20 years. I've been doing this for so long that I forget this isn't obvious to most people. The good news, however, is that someone in their mid-40s still has around 20 years to prepare for a traditional retirement. It's not what they want to hear, but better to hear it now than at 65.

OP, if you're still lurking: There are no special programs for avoiding credit card debt, other than bankruptcy, which has a bunch of other consequences and implications. Most (all?) debt consolidation companies are predatory -- these are for-profit companies which means they need to make money, and if they're making money this is coming out of your pocket. Really, her best least-bad option is to buckle down and pay off the debt ASAP.

ChickenStash

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Assuming the OP is still lurking... She could just stop paying anything on the cards. After a few months of harassing phone calls the card companies or collection agency will usually offer a settlement for less than what is owed. It's been awhile since I've watched this happen (some family got in trouble) but IIRC the settlement was around 30% of the balance. No debt consolidation or lawyers needed. Save the money currently going to the cards for the settlement.

There are some downsides, of course. Besides the obvious ethical issues, the amount written off will often be reported as income so there could be taxes due and her credit score/report will be hit very hard, taking a few years of good behavior to rebuild, at best. 

oneday

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Assuming the OP is still lurking... She could just stop paying anything on the cards. After a few months of harassing phone calls the card companies or collection agency will usually offer a settlement for less than what is owed. It's been awhile since I've watched this happen (some family got in trouble) but IIRC the settlement was around 30% of the balance. No debt consolidation or lawyers needed. Save the money currently going to the cards for the settlement.

There are some downsides, of course. Besides the obvious ethical issues, the amount written off will often be reported as income so there could be taxes due and her credit score/report will be hit very hard, taking a few years of good behavior to rebuild, at best.

With this method, she will also not be able to take out any more credit or a loan from these companies in the future, or risk having to pay back the written off amount. Source: ex-coworker who took this path.

clarkfan1979

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When I was ready to propose I told my girlfriend (now wife) that if she wanted me to propose her credit card debt needed to be gone. I compromised a little and proposed before her credit card debt was gone 100%. However, she made significant progress and we didn't get married until it was 100% gone.

I didn't tell her how to do it. I let her do it her way. I just said that it's important for me to marry someone who is financially responsible.

TheGrimSqueaker

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I think the OP is long gone. The request for technical info here seems like a bunch of wishful thinking. No magic way out, bud. Just gotta pay the bills. Pretty sure there's no government program for credit card debt.

That kind of technical information, in a forum devoted to personal accountability and personal sacrifice, would be as out of place as bananas in a hardware store. We don't even really agree with the OP on what the problem is, so the solutions we offer are going to be a bad fit.

If the OP continues to want what he says he wants, perhaps he should click on one of those ads he mentioned. They will tell him what he wants to hear. I don't think it will be in his best interests, however it's his life and his choice.

eyesonthehorizon

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I appreciate the advice. I actually came here more for technical guidance, not relationship advice. I want to get her card off the high interest she is paying now. I know nothing about debt consolidation, but ideally, I would to find a company that will pay off the credit cards so I can chop them up. Then she can get a lower (hopefully) interest rate and pay one company monthly until she clears things. Is that not how debt consolidation works? Does the government subsidize the lower interest rate if you can prove that you don't make enough money? Are there any programs that help? I feel like I see commercials all the time for it. Or is it best if she tries to bounce around on the introductory offer balance transfer thing?

I also missed this response... Kinda surprised anyone believes there are companies that pay off credit card debt for people. The money has to come from somewhere, what would be the business model? ...
Late to this but since you asked - the OP was asking about debt consolidation. (I added to the bolded sentence with the underlined one.) The consolidating lender issues a new loan, which is used to pay off the credit cards, transferring the balance of the debt to the consolidating lender. That lender profits from the interest they charge the borrower on that new loan.

What could make it worthwhile to the borrower is if they can offer more favorable terms, such as a lower monthly payment, lower interest rate, both, or sometimes just the simplicity of only having one lender to pay.

Of course, then the borrower has to be sure not to exaggerate the cycle by running up new credit card debt (hence chopping them up - but OP, if you are reading this, make sure that she is the one who makes that decision.) As a new loan, it also requires that the consolidation company wants to take the risk that the borrower can & will make timely payments, so a bad credit score or inability to otherwise secure the debt may result in refusal to issue a new loan.

However there are not generally any governmental programs to subsidize this that I know of. The government chiefly subsidizes lending for behavior it wants to incentivize, like housing or student debt.

DeniseNJ

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I know I'm late to the party here, but all of this talk about budgeting and snowballing debt and trying to earn more at you low paying job reminded me of this MMM article:  https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/

If I were in this situation, I'd quit my low paying gigs, put my business on the back burner and do anything I could to make money, including waiting tables on weekends and not seeing much of my boyfriend, and getting roommates, and eating ramen every night.  Get a full time gig paying a full time salary and do your art on the side or pick up side gigs, and put every dime toward the debt.  It really isn't a lot and not worth declaring bankruptcy over.  I say this because bankruptcy won't actually help her here.  She wouldn't have the debt but she'd still be broke.  From the article:

Quote
If you borrow even one dollar for anything other than your primary house or a profitable investment,  the very next dollar you can get your hands on should go to paying that back.

You don’t space it out all nice and casual with “monthly payments”, and you don’t get “me money”, “entertainment allowance”,  or any other such nonsense. You don’t start a family or get yourself a dog, and you don’t go out for drinks and dinner with your friends.

There will be plenty of time for these things later, and they will feel much better when they are not set against the backdrop of Incorrect Debt Due to Error.

merula

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That kind of technical information, in a forum devoted to personal accountability and personal sacrifice, would be as out of place as bananas in a hardware store.

Y'all don't have Menards?

Dicey

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That kind of technical information, in a forum devoted to personal accountability and personal sacrifice, would be as out of place as bananas in a hardware store.

Y'all don't have Menards?
How I wish we did.

FINate

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I appreciate the advice. I actually came here more for technical guidance, not relationship advice. I want to get her card off the high interest she is paying now. I know nothing about debt consolidation, but ideally, I would to find a company that will pay off the credit cards so I can chop them up. Then she can get a lower (hopefully) interest rate and pay one company monthly until she clears things. Is that not how debt consolidation works? Does the government subsidize the lower interest rate if you can prove that you don't make enough money? Are there any programs that help? I feel like I see commercials all the time for it. Or is it best if she tries to bounce around on the introductory offer balance transfer thing?

I also missed this response... Kinda surprised anyone believes there are companies that pay off credit card debt for people. The money has to come from somewhere, what would be the business model? ...
Late to this but since you asked - the OP was asking about debt consolidation. (I added to the bolded sentence with the underlined one.) The consolidating lender issues a new loan, which is used to pay off the credit cards, transferring the balance of the debt to the consolidating lender. That lender profits from the interest they charge the borrower on that new loan.

What could make it worthwhile to the borrower is if they can offer more favorable terms, such as a lower monthly payment, lower interest rate, both, or sometimes just the simplicity of only having one lender to pay.

Of course, then the borrower has to be sure not to exaggerate the cycle by running up new credit card debt (hence chopping them up - but OP, if you are reading this, make sure that she is the one who makes that decision.) As a new loan, it also requires that the consolidation company wants to take the risk that the borrower can & will make timely payments, so a bad credit score or inability to otherwise secure the debt may result in refusal to issue a new loan.

However there are not generally any governmental programs to subsidize this that I know of. The government chiefly subsidizes lending for behavior it wants to incentivize, like housing or student debt.

Yeah, I get that OP was asking about debt consolidation. But this is unsecured debt with someone with low income and a pretty poor credit profile. Rates on debt are set according to the risk of the borrower. A company that replaces this debt with lower interest debt would lose money on the deal. So how do these companies make money while offering lower interest rates? With high up front and monthly fees. Those looking to consolidate debts are way better off DIYing it: shop around for cards with temporary 0% (or low%) promotions, or a HELOC (which is secured by one's house).

eyesonthehorizon

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Yeah, I get that OP was asking about debt consolidation. But this is unsecured debt with someone with low income and a pretty poor credit profile. Rates on debt are set according to the risk of the borrower. A company that replaces this debt with lower interest debt would lose money on the deal. So how do these companies make money while offering lower interest rates? With high up front and monthly fees. Those looking to consolidate debts are way better off DIYing it: shop around for cards with temporary 0% (or low%) promotions, or a HELOC (which is secured by one's house).
Rates are set according to risk of the borrower, but companies vary in risk tolerance & their attitude toward a markup, so two equivalent loans may offer wildly different fees. I have two cards with very similar terms, but the APR on one is half over again that of the other, because one company is just kind of scummy like that. If she had a bad deal to start with it may not be hard to beat.

Alternatively, if her credit has improved since she applied for the card (which is when they set your markup from the prime rate) she may have better offers available now. Holding debt, at an acceptable ratio with reliable payment history, doesn't count you out as attractive lending customer. But the fees on any consolidation are absolutely a potential trap, there's no solution except to do the math before signing.

Likewise if using any 0% APY offers I would want to verify there is also a $0 transfer fee. Most 0% APR offers I have seen also have a 3-5% balance transfer charge, which dampens the effect of the savings somewhat. There is also the psychological risk of a new card seeming like new extra money.

fpjeepy

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Sorry for the delay. Life gets in the way and I forget to log in here.

Update-

We are moving in the right direction. She has consolidated with Trinity - a debt consolidation company. She has a monthly payment for 24 months and she has been able to make the first few payments. She got an offer to pay off one of the cards at a 55% discount so that one is settled. She also moved up to a manager position at the boutique so she is making a little more money there and I'm helping her shoot a wedding this spring which will help and hopefully allow for a couple more similar opportunities. Not out of the woods yet, but hopefully headed in the right direction.


lifeisshort123

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Congrats! Glad things are going in a positive direction.

Catbert

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She does know that if a creditor settled for 45 cents on the dollar, they will ding her credit, right?  And she'll likely get a 1099 and owe taxes on the amount forgiven.

JAYSLOL

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That’s good, hopefully credit cards are all cut up and she goes cash for everything at least for a few years to get good habits in place.  It’ll soon be time to switch from her focusing on being mad at debt, to being excited about saving and investing.  Hopefully she does well with that too

partgypsy

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I hope she has some reflection, about with her profession, what is make or break it. We are coming into wedding season, and her having only 1 job reserved so far, is not "great".  People who make a living at it might do more than 1 event per weekend during wedding season. Eta looked on a site and the ave is 25 per year with the range being 10- up to 60 per year.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2024, 01:22:41 PM by partgypsy »