Author Topic: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)  (Read 6963 times)

Cool Friend

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Re: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2018, 07:27:43 AM »
Honestly, I empathize with them.  There was a long, dark period of my life after The Great Recession when I had tons of student debt, could not afford to go back to school/training, could not afford to work for free at an unpaid internship (the only kind on offer), and no matter how many job applications I sent out, I could not find work.  It is profoundly demoralizing and hard to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it.  The message you end up internalizing is that your community and society do not want you, that you have no place whatsoever in it.  It's true, you can't blame the economy on everything, but it's foolish to ignore the very real effect external factors have in your ability to grow a livable future for yourself.  Their mindset is negative and self-destructive, but they didn't develop that mindset from nothing.  Don't take the claims in that thread of wanting to remain NEET for the rest of the lives at face value: when that's the only future you can see, you convince yourself that you might as well desire it.

I find the attitude that these are worthless people to be terribly cynical.  They're human beings.  Not everyone can figure a way out of a bad situation on their own.  A lot of these people are terrified at the predatory economic system that governs their lives and are too afraid to strike out on their own.

I could have easily been one of these people if 1) moving in with someone who would pay my rent and groceries was ever an option and 2) I didn't luck into a very rarefied job that took me out of unemployment hell.  Actually, considering how deeply depressing life was for me at that point, I was more likely to commit suicide than live on someone's couch and have them take care of me.  Is that supposed to be more admirable?

I'm not saying giving up is good. I'm saying I understand the depth of despair that makes giving up appealing.  I read some of those Reddit posts and could only think there but for the grace of God go I.

I was severely depressed in grad school and this isn't too far off. I ended up dropping out because I was gonna fail out. Lost my assistantship and therefore my income and was too depressed to look for anything. I basically lived at my boyfriend's and would talk about how we should get married and I would keep house and cook. It was definitely the depression talking. Luckily he pushed me to get help and I was able to get past all that and get back to my usual hustle. Part of it too was that I didn't really have anyone to support me. I had to go out and work and support myself.

I can understand the effects of depression and anxiety as being factors in NEETdom, and having twice graduated into a recession I definitely empathize with the victims of the last one who had to send out at least as many applications as I did before drawing an offer. That being said, I do not see the justification for the extreme contempt toward people in the working and professional classes in general ("wagecucks"? really?) or the hatred directed toward the specific individuals supporting them, who were frequently parents or similar enablers.

I wouldn't say that the extreme contempt is justified by any means, but it is a common defense mechanism as LennStar pointed out.  To be in that position and to feel utterly powerless, a person can build up a lot of resentment for the very people they rely on to live, and resentment for people who are able to work and sustain themselves without that support network. At heart, they don't want to have to live that way--every human being craves some agency, independence, and meaningful work.  In order to feel any semblance of self-esteem, you have to convince yourself that everyone who isn't living the way you are is an idiot or an asshole. It's not a healthy attitude and it doesn't serve them, unfortunately.  I wouldn't take their contempt for working, self-sufficient people personally; it's a potent bitterness that fuels it.

And yes, "wagecucks" is some cringe-worthy 4chan nonsense.

Timodeus

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Re: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2018, 08:02:10 AM »
Honestly, I empathize with them.  There was a long, dark period of my life after The Great Recession when I had tons of student debt, could not afford to go back to school/training, could not afford to work for free at an unpaid internship (the only kind on offer), and no matter how many job applications I sent out, I could not find work.  It is profoundly demoralizing and hard to explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it.  The message you end up internalizing is that your community and society do not want you, that you have no place whatsoever in it.  It's true, you can't blame the economy on everything, but it's foolish to ignore the very real effect external factors have in your ability to grow a livable future for yourself.  Their mindset is negative and self-destructive, but they didn't develop that mindset from nothing.  Don't take the claims in that thread of wanting to remain NEET for the rest of the lives at face value: when that's the only future you can see, you convince yourself that you might as well desire it.

I find the attitude that these are worthless people to be terribly cynical.  They're human beings.  Not everyone can figure a way out of a bad situation on their own.  A lot of these people are terrified at the predatory economic system that governs their lives and are too afraid to strike out on their own.

I could have easily been one of these people if 1) moving in with someone who would pay my rent and groceries was ever an option and 2) I didn't luck into a very rarefied job that took me out of unemployment hell.  Actually, considering how deeply depressing life was for me at that point, I was more likely to commit suicide than live on someone's couch and have them take care of me.  Is that supposed to be more admirable?

I'm not saying giving up is good. I'm saying I understand the depth of despair that makes giving up appealing.  I read some of those Reddit posts and could only think there but for the grace of God go I.

This was a great post and reflects many of my feelings as well. I recall graduating college during the recession with no plan for a job, deep in debt, and a degree worth little to nothing. After being a mooch for a year I had an awakening after getting kicked out of a relative's house. I had two options at that time, go down the pit of despair or become stoic and start making prudent decisions for a change. I chose the latter. My reasons for mooching are similar to these NEETs, through a combination of poor financial decisions (college degree) and general economic conditions, I found it hard to accept taking jobs with little to no growth potential just to pay rent every month. While I think some of my success was luck, I found that if you work consistently, come in on time, don't fight with coworkers, and present a humble attitude you have an edge over many people. There are real systemic issues that prevent some people from getting ahead in life for sure, so I feel fortunate to have made it and am well on my way to financial independence. You said it best-There But For The Grace of God Go I.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2018, 12:30:15 PM »
I wouldn't say that the extreme contempt is justified by any means, but it is a common defense mechanism as LennStar pointed out.

It's the justification I'm trying to find. I'm fully aware that entitlement-minded mooches find reasons to continue doing what they're doing; that's actually a response to cognitive dissonance. Another thing I notice is that they often genuinely believe that they're "contributing" just by being present. They also really, truly, honestly believe there's such a thing as a "soul" that will be crushed if they expose themselves to a difficult or unpleasant experience. They believe that difficulties and challenges permanently damage them.

talltexan

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Re: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2018, 06:36:30 AM »
I had heard the term before, but only in anime, and basically never thought that the term was used in real life. When I saw the post title, I suddenly occurred to me that many people on welfare are NEETs. They meet the technical qualification, althought I wouldn't count someone on a welfare disability pension as a NEET. Many countries don't have a strong welfare system, so adult freeloaders live off their family instead.


Kimera-
Like you I am horrified by NEET people and NEET culture, but this part of your post is based on some misconceptions about modern welfare that have not been true for more than twenty years, basically after the Clinton-Gingrich reforms of the 1990's. In order to qualify for one of the two largest programs--SNAP or TANF--you have got to have children or else a job. The EITC is also only really useful to people who perform low-paying work and receive income for it. 



partgypsy

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Re: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2018, 12:06:30 PM »
The people I know who can be described like that (my older brother, and some of the time my sister) are not and have never been on welfare. While they are perfectly ok having parents provide for them (they are adults), they are personally derisive of people on welfare or receiving any gov support, which completely mystifies me.

Hunny156

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Re: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2018, 12:25:49 PM »
Wow, this thread hit home for me.  I can't go into too much detail due to pending litigation, but I am seeing the results of this behavior, magnified, when the parental units shrug their shoulders in frustration but refuse to cut the enabling behavior.  Add in some un-diagnosed mental health issues and possibly narcissism, and the results are disastrous.  This person was once a (mostly) functioning member of society, they have a degree and were able to maintain a job with a solid rate of pay.  Unwilling to leave the nest and unable to maintain a relationship with others, but at least there was enough income to provide for themselves, so long as they could develop some frugal habits when they finally ventured out into the real world.  Not perfect, but with some mentoring, there was absolutely an opportunity to become a fully functional member of society.

I'm too angry to be neutral these days, but from where I stand, this was a willful plan to take advantage of someone who lacked the faculties to protect themselves, and the levels of depravity, the lack of morals or ethics, are utterly astonishing.

This failure to launch character finds themselves with six figure unsecured debt, an extensive record of shoddy work history (near poverty level, but living the high life by abusing resources that are now nearly gone), and is willing to do anything to lash their way out of the corner they have painted themselves into.  Unable or unwilling to defend themselves from damning evidence in court, they resorted to another form of legal action that will haunt them for years to come, further impeding their ability to become a functional member of society, with barely a couple of decades left before traditional retirement age.  This person has strong hatred for the enabler and for the one trying to clean up the mess (me), so the solution was to hide from one, and dump the other, helpless person into the care of the state. 

My life has been turned upside down this year, trying to rectify the problems created, while watching guerilla warfare tactics from the other side, determined to make things worse for all involved.  I'm grateful that my mustachian ways are allowing me to devote some resources to solving this problem, and I'm trying to maintain some sanity and perspective.  I'm hopeful that the proper channels will eventually come into play and do right by the ultimate victim, but my recent education into the legal process has been disheartening at best.

The actual details of the story are so shocking, many people close to me have suggested I pen a book about it all once the story is resolved.  I probably won't, living through it the first time is hard enough, and my goal of FIRE is more important to me, so I hope to move forward and put this mess behind me at some point.  I also realize my story is not unique, and it's been eye opening to see why this behavior continues without repercussion in so many families.  Most people simply do not have the resources to fight a long, ugly, expensive uphill battle.  It's all so very sad.

maizeman

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Re: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2018, 12:31:13 PM »
So sorry to hear that Hunny156. Reading between the lines a little I can start to form a guess about a few of the particulars of the experience you are going through, and if I'm completely wrong it only means it is even worse than the situation I am imagining.

Take care of yourself, and those close to you.

stoaX

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Re: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2018, 03:00:44 PM »
Wow, this thread hit home for me.  I can't go into too much detail due to pending litigation, but I am seeing the results of this behavior, magnified, when the parental units shrug their shoulders in frustration but refuse to cut the enabling behavior.  Add in some un-diagnosed mental health issues and possibly narcissism, and the results are disastrous.  This person was once a (mostly) functioning member of society, they have a degree and were able to maintain a job with a solid rate of pay.  Unwilling to leave the nest and unable to maintain a relationship with others, but at least there was enough income to provide for themselves, so long as they could develop some frugal habits when they finally ventured out into the real world.  Not perfect, but with some mentoring, there was absolutely an opportunity to become a fully functional member of society.

I'm too angry to be neutral these days, but from where I stand, this was a willful plan to take advantage of someone who lacked the faculties to protect themselves, and the levels of depravity, the lack of morals or ethics, are utterly astonishing.

This failure to launch character finds themselves with six figure unsecured debt, an extensive record of shoddy work history (near poverty level, but living the high life by abusing resources that are now nearly gone), and is willing to do anything to lash their way out of the corner they have painted themselves into.  Unable or unwilling to defend themselves from damning evidence in court, they resorted to another form of legal action that will haunt them for years to come, further impeding their ability to become a functional member of society, with barely a couple of decades left before traditional retirement age.  This person has strong hatred for the enabler and for the one trying to clean up the mess (me), so the solution was to hide from one, and dump the other, helpless person into the care of the state. 

My life has been turned upside down this year, trying to rectify the problems created, while watching guerilla warfare tactics from the other side, determined to make things worse for all involved.  I'm grateful that my mustachian ways are allowing me to devote some resources to solving this problem, and I'm trying to maintain some sanity and perspective.  I'm hopeful that the proper channels will eventually come into play and do right by the ultimate victim, but my recent education into the legal process has been disheartening at best.

The actual details of the story are so shocking, many people close to me have suggested I pen a book about it all once the story is resolved.  I probably won't, living through it the first time is hard enough, and my goal of FIRE is more important to me, so I hope to move forward and put this mess behind me at some point.  I also realize my story is not unique, and it's been eye opening to see why this behavior continues without repercussion in so many families.  Most people simply do not have the resources to fight a long, ugly, expensive uphill battle.  It's all so very sad.

Wishing you well with your struggle.  And yes, my experience with the legal system (cops, courts, child welfare people, housing authority people) was, at best, underwhelming and sooooo slow....

Kimera757

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Re: NEET. Not neat. (people intentionally living off others)
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2018, 08:46:29 AM »
I had heard the term before, but only in anime, and basically never thought that the term was used in real life. When I saw the post title, I suddenly occurred to me that many people on welfare are NEETs. They meet the technical qualification, althought I wouldn't count someone on a welfare disability pension as a NEET. Many countries don't have a strong welfare system, so adult freeloaders live off their family instead.


Kimera-
Like you I am horrified by NEET people and NEET culture, but this part of your post is based on some misconceptions about modern welfare that have not been true for more than twenty years, basically after the Clinton-Gingrich reforms of the 1990's. In order to qualify for one of the two largest programs--SNAP or TANF--you have got to have children or else a job. The EITC is also only really useful to people who perform low-paying work and receive income for it.

I am a Canadian. Welfare works a bit differently here. (and for that matter, the five year limit only applies in some states. The law simply allows states to impose a five year limit.)