Author Topic: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...  (Read 3234 times)

nereo

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Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« on: February 14, 2018, 12:31:30 PM »
really??!!

Politico reports:

Quote
Jared Kushner... appears to have drawn more money out of three separate lines of credit in the months after he joined the White House last year, a newly released document shows.
Recent revisions to the financial disclosure form filed by Kushnerís wife, Ivanka Trump, bumped up each of those debts to a range of $5 million to $25 million.... One debt did drop in value as Ivanka Trumpís form was revised: the amount owed on a Visa account went down to a range of $50,001 to $100,000, from $100,001 to $250,000.
(emphasis added)

I'm not sure if I should praise them for reducing their credit card somewhat, or slap them with the debt-stick for having at least $50,001 in credit card debt.
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dandarc

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 12:33:14 PM »
That could just be a month's float - they are super rich after all, so $50-250K in a month might not be unusual.

slugline

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 12:35:59 PM »
I'm shocked, shocked, shocked to learn that this family utilizes debt. I never would have seen that coming. . . .

nereo

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 12:36:24 PM »
That could just be a month's float - they are super rich after all, so $50-250K in a month might not be unusual.
They are super in-debt and their debt has been increasing; whether or not they are rich is a judgement call and speculation, since we don't have the Kushner's financials to look over, only his federal declarations.
From that same article...

Quote
The changes take Kushner and Trumpís reported debts to a range of approximately $31 million to $155 million from the previously reported range of between about $19 million and $98 million.
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Just Joe

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 12:39:26 PM »
Wait - I thought being rich and famous meant a person had money in the bank? ;)

Who wants to float $100K+ at 15%+ interest?

I thought they were part of the fiscally responsible party that would reboot our economy (which is doing fine).

Just Joe

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 12:44:58 PM »
Seriously - couldn't a person create debt and let a "friend" pay it off?

I worry about folks with finances that complicated having that much debt and being in leadership roles. Seems like an easy way to get into trouble. Oh - wait... ;)

ducky19

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 08:49:01 AM »
Agreed that the credit card debt is likely just the monthly spend that is paid off each month vs. debt that they are paying interest on. Some of the wealthiest people I know (thinking mostly of my FIL, but a few others) utilize debt to their advantage. How much someone owes is not nearly as telling as their net worth. Yes, he may owe $31 to $155 million, but I'm guessing his net worth far exceeds that. It can make a lot of sense to use someone else's money - especially with the low interest rates we've been having - versus your own when you can then save your money and invest it earning a much higher percentage. I'm pretty "meh" about this one being in the "Antimustachian WoS&C", not nearly as interesting as some of the other threads I've read here.

PoutineLover

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 09:28:51 AM »
Even if that's their monthly spend.. that's still pretty worthy of the antimustachian wall of shame and comedy. Fuck those people for spending more in a month than most americans earn in a year, while using their influence to punish the most vulnerable in society. I wish they could experience what it's like to be poor and desperate and realize the effects of their policies on those who have no say in it.
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ducky19

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2018, 09:43:58 AM »
I don't bemoan anyone for having money - I'd love to pay $1 million in taxes someday - and I certainly won't condemn them for spending their money. Some extremely wealthy people are extremely altruistic - others (like Kushner) are not. That's life.

However, I do agree with your point that it's dangerous to have someone who has never lived even remotely close to paycheck to paycheck in a position where they are creating policy that affects millions of people, but that can be said for most of Washington. To say those people have no say in it though is bullshit - if they don't like it, they are free to vote for someone else.

PoutineLover

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 09:52:30 AM »
I don't bemoan anyone for having money - I'd love to pay $1 million in taxes someday - and I certainly won't condemn them for spending their money. Some extremely wealthy people are extremely altruistic - others (like Kushner) are not. That's life.

However, I do agree with your point that it's dangerous to have someone who has never lived even remotely close to paycheck to paycheck in a position where they are creating policy that affects millions of people, but that can be said for most of Washington. To say those people have no say in it though is bullshit - if they don't like it, they are free to vote for someone else.
It's clear to me that big donors have a disproportionate influence on politics, and that where you live affects the value of your individual vote. Easy to say that one could vote differently, but in reality, due to the political system in place, that has close to no effect on the outcome, especially if you live in a solid blue or red state.
If political donations were limited to a set amount per person, no corporate donations allowed, and one vote counted the same no matter what district you lived in, the composition of the government would look quite different.
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dogboyslim

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 11:51:39 AM »
Wait - I thought being rich and famous meant a person had money in the bank? ;)

Who wants to float $100K+ at 15%+ interest?

I thought they were part of the fiscally responsible party that would reboot our economy (which is doing fine).

I took that to mean they pay it off each month and it still gets that high, so float was the no interest version.  I doubt this is the case, but that was what I understood from the statement.

trollwithamustache

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 12:00:44 PM »
This is boring. Guys, he reports a number skewed in the direction that will keep him out of trouble for reporting purposes. So he over reports debt.

Besides, whatever your monthly spend, isn't running it through the CC for points the mustachio/efficient thing to do?

bacchi

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 12:53:38 PM »
If you've ever applied for a mortgage, they'll list whatever you have in your credit report as "debt" even if you've already paid off the charge accounts and do so every month. It's amusing but slightly exasperating when they list a credit card debt of $300 with a repayment schedule of $25/18.

It wouldn't surprise me if Kushner & Trump were running a deficit -- like father(-in-law), like son -- but it's not clear if that's the case here.

Kimera757

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 11:07:26 AM »
This is boring. Guys, he reports a number skewed in the direction that will keep him out of trouble for reporting purposes. So he over reports debt.

Besides, whatever your monthly spend, isn't running it through the CC for points the mustachio/efficient thing to do?

It's also more secure that way (compared to using your bank account).

Unfortunately, we don't know whether he pays off his credit card debt each month. It's foolish not to do so.

Quote
An update to Ivanka Trumpís financial disclosure report published Tuesday reveals that she and Kushnerís have taken on millions of dollars in new debt over the past year.

Kushner appears to have tapped three different lines of credit since he began working in the White House, according to Trumpís disclosure form.

Link: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374243-kushner-discloses-additional-assets-in-amended-financial-disclosure

So I think he's not paying it off.

Any estimates on his net worth and income?

nick663

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 12:16:22 PM »
Any estimates on his net worth and income?
Family was estimated at 1.8 billion at the end of 2016:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/#73431db12f42

Ivanka/Jared are worth "as much as 740 million" according to financial filings: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/us/politics/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner-still-benefiting-from-business-empire-filings-show.html

A 100k debt with that net worth would be proportional to a meal at Applebees for you and me. :)

nereo

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 02:07:50 PM »
Any estimates on his net worth and income?
Family was estimated at 1.8 billion at the end of 2016:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/12/18/jared-josh-kushner-fortune-donald-trump-real-estate/#73431db12f42

Ivanka/Jared are worth "as much as 740 million" according to financial filings: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/us/politics/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner-still-benefiting-from-business-empire-filings-show.html

A 100k debt with that net worth would be proportional to a meal at Applebees for you and me. :)
So they lost almost a billion dollars in net worth during a time when the market was doing very well?
Side note: Ive never been to an Applebees.  I hear it is... ok.
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dandarc

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 02:29:03 PM »
So they lost almost a billion dollars in net worth during a time when the market was doing very well?
Side note: Ive never been to an Applebees.  I hear it is... ok.
Article 1 - The Kushner Family (Jared, Josh, and their parents) are worth $1.8 billion.

Article 2 - Jared / Ivonka are worth $0.75 billion.

So, more like "Josh + Mr. and Mrs. Kushner are worth over $1 billion combined" is the intersection.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 02:45:54 PM »
Saw him the other day at Safeway buying VGCs with his Chase Sapphire Reserve, nothing to see here...

sol

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 02:46:59 PM »
Jared's financials are complicated.  He's desperately in debt on a couple of big real estate deals, which is part of the reason he went to the Russians in the first place.

His credit card debt doesn't worry me.  He net worth worries me, because it is too low for a man who owes as much as he does.  He's vulnerable to blackmail because he could be penniless in a month, with the right strategic intervention. 

He owes more than twice as much as he's worth, and doesn't generate enough income to make the interest payments on it.  He's an empty tin can being kicked back and forth between international banks, some of which are run by adversarial foreign governments.  He's a liability and always has been.  I'm ashamed of my country every time I think about him.

nancyjnelson

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2018, 05:28:26 PM »
Quote
He's vulnerable to blackmail because he could be penniless in a month, with the right strategic intervention.

In the federal agency I worked for, I spent a couple of years reviewing the suitability (combination of security clearance, financial report and job history) of potential new hires.  Whatever one thinks of Kushner's repeated inability to recall meetings with foreign agents, the finances alone would likely have been more than enough to keep him from getting the final job offer and security clearance.  He would have been too vulnerable to bribery and too susceptible to making policy decisions that would improve his personal financial situation.

The fact that Kushner doesn't yet have a permanent security clearance (believe me, clearances for new administration principals are always fast-tracked) gives me some small hope that the entire system has not broken down entirely.
 


sol

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 06:19:20 PM »
the finances alone would likely have been more than enough to keep him from getting the final job offer and security clearance.  He would have been too vulnerable to bribery and too susceptible to making policy decisions that would improve his personal financial situation.

Forget Kushner, this sentence is more germanely applied to Donald Trump.

Trump does technically own five buildings in NYC, but they are not worth a billion dollars much less the 8.5 billion he claims to be worth.  He also has partial stakes in several other buildings.  What he has a TON of are licensing deals, where he lends his name to another developer who builds and operates a building and uses the Trump "luxury brand" to draw clients.  Many of these operations are overseas.  In places like Iran and Saudi Arabia and various former Soviet republics.  He's literally doing business with foreign governments, while also setting US foreign policy.  How can we be expected not to ask the obvious question, "Is this foreign policy change what Trump thinks is best for the country, or is it what Trump thinks is best for the Trump business empire?"

The brand licensing is a sticky subject.  On the one hand, Trump needs to claim ownership of those buildings that bear his name to support his curated self-image as a real estate developer.  Those same buildings are drawing profits from foreign governments, who send their delegations there with promises of having an audience with the POTUS, which is why so many people are crying "emoluments violate the Constitution!" for the money he makes from these properties.  On the other hand, he doesn't actually own these buildings and most of their profits flow to other people, since he's basically a PR brand and not an owner or a manager.  Trump could easily defend himself from the "emolument!" criticism if he just publicly admitted that he doesn't own or operate any of these buildings, or really have any stake in them at all except for the quarterly retainer he gets for leasing his name.  Except that admission would undercut his entire PR empire, which is built on convincing people that he's a real estate investor.  He's stuck.

And because he doesn't actually own any equity in all of these buildings, his net worth isn't actually very high.  His income is high, because he gets all of these licensing payments, but they are cash paid to him instead of assets, and he spends it on things like gold-plating his apartment and painting his name on helicopters, because he feels he needs to support a public image of success.  Without any actual assets, his net worth is based on the net present value of these income streams.  He (or his accountant) seems to be assuming that today's low interest rates justify an assumed super low interest payment, which means that $100m of annual revenue is "worth" billions dollars, because that's the amount you'd need to have invested today to generate that income stream.

Kushner is still trying to do what Trump has long since given up on doing: borrowing money to buy buildings.  He's up to his eyeballs in debt and can't afford to make the interest payments, which is exactly how Trump kept going bankrupt.  The whole thing is a sham, and these people are now in charge of our economy?  Methinks we're doomed.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 06:39:39 PM by sol »

nick663

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2018, 08:09:46 PM »
The brand licensing is a sticky subject.  On the one hand, Trump needs to claim ownership of those buildings that bear his name to support his curated self-image as a real estate developer.  Those same buildings are drawing profits from foreign governments, who send their delegations there with promises of having an audience with the POTUS, which is why so many people are crying "emoluments violate the Constitution!" for the money he makes from these properties.  On the other hand, he doesn't actually own these buildings and most of their profits flow to other people, since he's basically a PR brand and not an owner or a manager.  Trump could easily defend himself from the "emolument!" criticism if he just publicly admitted that he doesn't own or operate any of these buildings, or really have any stake in them at all except for the quarterly retainer he gets for leasing his name.  Except that admission would undercut his entire PR empire, which is built on convincing people that he's a real estate investor.  He's stuck.
I'm curious to see how much these licensing deals are worth after his presidency is over.  Few would have bought anything tied to George W by the end of his presidency and I think Trump's approval ratings will be well below his.

nereo

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2018, 06:44:05 AM »
while we're on the subject of conflicts of interest, biases and the like...
what frustrates me is this notion that a person (any person) can make decisions where they have a personal, vested interest in the outcome and NOT be biased in their decision-making process.  Behavioural psychology has shown again and again this simply isn't the case. It doesn't matter if you are the nicest, god-fearing, family-oriented person or a narcissistic megalomaniac. EVERYONE* decision-making is influenced when they have conflicts of interest. It's the very reason doctors can't operate on their own children; even when they are consciously trying to do what is best, they often can't, even when they think they are.

Quote
*interestingly, the one group of people who routinely buck this trend are sociopaths. Their brains can ignore COIs
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nereo

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2018, 10:25:38 AM »
...well Kushner's debt has become an area of interest to Mueller's probe.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/politics/mueller-investigation-kushner-foreign-financing-efforts/index.html

This seems obvious to anyone that's undergone any scrutiny for COIs... owing large amounts of money (legally or not) to entities you are overseeing is never a good idea.
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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2018, 12:53:37 PM »
...well Kushner's debt has become an area of interest to Mueller's probe.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/politics/mueller-investigation-kushner-foreign-financing-efforts/index.html

This seems obvious to anyone that's undergone any scrutiny for COIs... owing large amounts of money (legally or not) to entities you are overseeing is never a good idea.

With any other kind of job, and I'm talking about us "little people", there are processes to go through to disclose, document, and *mitigate* conflicts of interest. For example, people have to recuse themselves from decisions related to the area where they have the conflict. Furthermore the onus for all of this is on the person with the conflict. It doesn't matter if you're the treasurer of a small non-profit or a buyer for a department store.
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nereo

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2018, 01:12:25 PM »
...well Kushner's debt has become an area of interest to Mueller's probe.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/19/politics/mueller-investigation-kushner-foreign-financing-efforts/index.html

This seems obvious to anyone that's undergone any scrutiny for COIs... owing large amounts of money (legally or not) to entities you are overseeing is never a good idea.

With any other kind of job, and I'm talking about us "little people", there are processes to go through to disclose, document, and *mitigate* conflicts of interest. For example, people have to recuse themselves from decisions related to the area where they have the conflict. Furthermore the onus for all of this is on the person with the conflict. It doesn't matter if you're the treasurer of a small non-profit or a buyer for a department store.

Yeah, when I worked for the federal government as a low-level employee I had a multi-page declaration on potential COIs and I was automatically removed from any projects where they might have existed. The same was true of everyone I knew higher-up in the food chain.
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sol

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2018, 01:56:12 PM »
Because of my federal job, there are hundreds and hundreds of companies I am not allowed to invest in because of potential conflicts of interest between the agency and those corporations.  I can't even begin to imagine the severity of conflicts present with someone taking direct financial payments for services rendered to a foreign government, the way the Trumps do, much less making money from US businesses.

But the presidency is not like other federal jobs.  If we elect someone who is literally a Chinese spy, that person still gets to be president.  Failing the qualifications for a security clearance doesn't matter.  Conflicts of interest don't matter. Being an unqualified doofus doesn't matter.  Nothing at all matters, except winning the electoral college.

It's a weakness in the American system of government, IMO.  If Putin was eligible to run, and could convince enough people to vote for him, he would be the US president himself.  He isn't eligible to run, so it looks like he found the next best thing.

I am also not allowed to make a post like this one while on federal property (which I am not), even when using a personal device on a personal connection, because it simultaneously expresses a personal political opinion and identifies me as a federal employee, and the COI rules are so strict that even THAT is forbidden because someone might confuse my personal views with official government positions.  Can you imagine if that rule applied to Trump?

jmecklenborg

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2018, 09:04:39 AM »
 It recently made the rounds where I live that Kushner owns a 50~ unit building in our county:



What's crazy about the Kushner company story is that the dad apparently built a traditional portfolio of working-class apartments and then sold a huge number of them to overpay for 666 Fifth Ave back at the peak in 2007. 

How does someone who knew the business well get emotional and do what he did?  He flew too close to the sun, literally.   

There are so many similarities between the Trump and Kushner stories, the difference being that daddy Kushner messed up big whereas daddy Trump stayed out of Manhattan.  Donald's timing with that first hotel near Grand Central and then the Trump Tower were just plain luck.  Nobody knew back in 1975-1980 that Manhattan was poised to roar back to life by the 1990s, especially not our current President.  He was just lucky. 


talltexan

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2018, 01:00:26 PM »
Daddy Kushner was in jail when Jared Kushner bought the 666 property.

Just Joe

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Re: Jared Kushner's $50k-$100k credit card debt...
« Reply #29 on: Today at 11:34:51 AM »
Like father, like son.

Whoops! Maybe I wrote prematurely. ;)