Author Topic: Overheard on Facebook  (Read 1954423 times)

MrsDinero

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4450 on: May 13, 2016, 01:00:31 PM »
My husband, you know, was a single guy who lived alone for 6 years before we married.

When we finally lived together, a couple of my girlfriends asked how I got him to do laundry.  My funny answer is: "I own more underwear".  (Which was true, he'd run out first!)  But really...the guy knows how to run a washing machine, and has since he was 18.


Yes, this is what I don't get. How did you 'get' him to do laundry?! Like if it's not your job to do the laundry, it's your job to get him to do it?! How do they think their partners got clean clothes before they met them? If it was his mother doing it, yeah, not interested in him thanks.

Even ignoring the unfair division of labour, it's an unfair policing of the division of labour, and I honestly don't understand why my friends don't just stand up for themselves. They were born in the 80s and 90s, they all work full-time, I don't know why the idea of a man 'helping out' is still prevalent. He's not 'helping' he's living his f*cking life, which involves cleaning, maintaining and laundry.

+1

I get this from my 93 year old grandmother - ok fine, she's not going to be anything but shocked that a man would actually do anything to help. I won't change her perspective on life at this point.

For everyone else in the world though, come on along. I can't believe how many women expect to be married to a guy who is basically like another child, and think that complaining about it is all you can do.

In defense of your 93 year old grandmother, it was a different time and different expectations :)

Still it is a conversation I've had with a couple of my friends.  I pointed out there was a difference between my (now) husband and theirs. 

The basic difference is they married their husbands right out of college, so they went from highschool to the dorms, to living with their (now) husbands in college to getting married, so neither of them ever lived on their own or maintained their own house.  I, on the other hand, started living with my now husband when I was 37 and he was 41.  Big difference.  It is kind of funny we've never talked about diving up chores we just do what needs to be done.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4451 on: May 13, 2016, 01:40:59 PM »
I'll be honest, I'm 30 and single. I am 100% not interested in a man who can't cook, clean, do laundry, basic maintenance, etc, and I'm even less interested in one who's not willing to do those things. I'm not asking for perfection, I'm asking that you put your coat away and don't pile your crap all over.

I also have a roommate who needs to work on these skills.

NESailor

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4452 on: May 13, 2016, 01:59:31 PM »
My wife still complains about me being messy but I think our "division of labor" is pretty fair.  She DOES clean more than I do, no doubt...but aside from running all admin work (financial matters, insurance, house and property maintenance etc.), I do approximately 99% of the cooking.  We don't eat out so I'd say I spend more than an hour/day in the kitchen on average (multiple big meals on weekends + fresh stuff 2-4 times week).  She does not clean the entire time while I cook but God forbid I leave socks by the foot of the bed - I'm the messiest human being on the planet and will drive her crazy :)

I think we're a good team, though.  I like good food so cooking isn't really a big deal and she likes a neat house so she's welcome to keep it that way, haha.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4453 on: May 13, 2016, 02:06:16 PM »
My husband went straight from his parents house to my apartment. But his dad set a good example for him by always being an equal partner in kid/house stuff (even though his mom was a SAHP and technically did more), and he does at least 50% in our house too - if not more. I don't think it's a matter of age as much as emotional maturity and/or having a good example to follow.

solon

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4454 on: May 13, 2016, 03:38:39 PM »
My cousin posted one of those Facebook memories from five years ago. It's a picture of clothes on a clothesline, and the the caption says, "Man, a lot has changed in 5 years..."

I have no idea what she's talking about. I'm afraid to ask because if I was a real friend, I'd already know!

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4455 on: May 13, 2016, 04:43:44 PM »
My husband, you know, was a single guy who lived alone for 6 years before we married.

When we finally lived together, a couple of my girlfriends asked how I got him to do laundry.  My funny answer is: "I own more underwear".  (Which was true, he'd run out first!)  But really...the guy knows how to run a washing machine, and has since he was 18.

Yes, this is what I don't get. How did you 'get' him to do laundry?! Like if it's not your job to do the laundry, it's your job to get him to do it?! How do they think their partners got clean clothes before they met them? If it was his mother doing it, yeah, not interested in him thanks.

Even ignoring the unfair division of labour, it's an unfair policing of the division of labour, and I honestly don't understand why my friends don't just stand up for themselves. They were born in the 80s and 90s, they all work full-time, I don't know why the idea of a man 'helping out' is still prevalent. He's not 'helping' he's living his f*cking life, which involves cleaning, maintaining and laundry.
Any my dinosaur husband was born in the 60s!   I mean, come on!

Prairie Gal

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4456 on: May 13, 2016, 04:46:48 PM »
My husband, you know, was a single guy who lived alone for 6 years before we married.

When we finally lived together, a couple of my girlfriends asked how I got him to do laundry.  My funny answer is: "I own more underwear".  (Which was true, he'd run out first!)  But really...the guy knows how to run a washing machine, and has since he was 18.


Yes, this is what I don't get. How did you 'get' him to do laundry?! Like if it's not your job to do the laundry, it's your job to get him to do it?! How do they think their partners got clean clothes before they met them? If it was his mother doing it, yeah, not interested in him thanks.

Even ignoring the unfair division of labour, it's an unfair policing of the division of labour, and I honestly don't understand why my friends don't just stand up for themselves. They were born in the 80s and 90s, they all work full-time, I don't know why the idea of a man 'helping out' is still prevalent. He's not 'helping' he's living his f*cking life, which involves cleaning, maintaining and laundry.

+1

I get this from my 93 year old grandmother - ok fine, she's not going to be anything but shocked that a man would actually do anything to help. I won't change her perspective on life at this point.

For everyone else in the world though, come on along. I can't believe how many women expect to be married to a guy who is basically like another child, and think that complaining about it is all you can do.

In defense of your 93 year old grandmother, it was a different time and different expectations :)

Still it is a conversation I've had with a couple of my friends.  I pointed out there was a difference between my (now) husband and theirs. 

The basic difference is they married their husbands right out of college, so they went from highschool to the dorms, to living with their (now) husbands in college to getting married, so neither of them ever lived on their own or maintained their own house.  I, on the other hand, started living with my now husband when I was 37 and he was 41.  Big difference.  It is kind of funny we've never talked about diving up chores we just do what needs to be done.

My husband did the laundry and all the outside stuff, I did pretty much everything else. (And he was born in the late 1940's.)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 04:49:28 PM by Prairie Gal »

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4457 on: May 13, 2016, 04:47:43 PM »
My cousin posted one of those Facebook memories from five years ago. It's a picture of clothes on a clothesline, and the the caption says, "Man, a lot has changed in 5 years..."

I have no idea what she's talking about. I'm afraid to ask because if I was a real friend, I'd already know!

They invented electric clothes dryers in the last five years.. Didn't you hear?

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4458 on: May 13, 2016, 04:52:34 PM »
Quote
So, just stopping doing the work is not a viable option, other than I get to live in a constant mess until I choose to do it.   I have only five options:

1) ignore the mess, do what I feel like and wear sunglasses inside
2) train the kids
3) do it myself
4) hire help (but there is work trying to manage maid service, too,)
5) ask for Kitsune's condo list and leave it around....

Oh, and I guess the one he asks for 6)  ask him to help when I am working on the chores..  which results in his feeling superior if I complain that he does not do much, ("but I was clear that all you need to do is ask")..justified in not doing anything unless I directly request it..... or in his making me feel bad for asking when I do "Can't you see that I am busy doing my hobby today?  I only get the weekends and weeknights to work on it...."

And no,   even when he agrees to a divided chore list, it lasts for about a day

Ah..  that felt good to whine to an anonymous audience.   Crankiness relieved for another week.

Hm...you know, before we had kids, our apartment would get out of control (probably worse than now, with kids).  You know, he was in grad school, I worked long hours.  We'd cook and not do the dishes (no dishwasher), and go out Friday night, so by Saturday morning we had papers everywhere, 3 days worth of dishes to do, etc.

We set up a regular "cleaning time", 1.5-2 hours, every Saturday morning.  We were BOTH doing chores. AND laundry and dishes did not count.  It was great because it was agreed upon time ahead of time.  No asking required.  No "but I want to work on my hobby..."

Would that work for you?  I think the hard part is the kids - we tend to work at different times now, a lot, because one of us is engaged with the kids.  However, I follow the blog of a single mom in Canada (Notes from the Frugal Trenches).  A recent post of hers pointed out the importance of being organized and clean.  What works for her is three non-negotiable 10-minute time slots per day for tidying/ cleaning.

Gosh I remember how we would always ALWAYS leave dishes for the next morning.  One day, it occurred to me that it was stupid, because they are harder to clean the next day.  SO I got up from dinner, and washed the dishes.  My husband said "what are you doing?"  I said "well, I think they are easier to clean right away, and it's only 10 minutes".  POOF, habit changed.

And on the flip side, he taught me to put my car keys in the same damn place every day.

We've taught the toddler to put his shoes on the shelf and laundry in the basket.

We recently started docking my 10 year old for every clothing item found on the floor.  Baby steps!

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4459 on: May 13, 2016, 05:41:38 PM »
My cousin posted one of those Facebook memories from five years ago. It's a picture of clothes on a clothesline, and the the caption says, "Man, a lot has changed in 5 years..."

I have no idea what she's talking about. I'm afraid to ask because if I was a real friend, I'd already know!

They invented electric clothes dryers in the last five years.. Didn't you hear?

I'm guessing that there will be two types of adult clothes and some things that look like baby and toddler. She's basically saying that 5 years ago she was single, but now she's got a husband and kids.

Ceridwen

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4460 on: May 16, 2016, 09:53:25 AM »
In a conversation on a local moms FB group about meal prep and finding shortcuts and cost savings.

"You should go on house of chef James Mitchell it is a company in the Vaudreuil area that caters to the west island they make weekly healthy delicious meals and deliver to your door it costs less then cooking and shopping I use there service and am very satisfied look it up there menus change every week."

This is the company she was referring to: http://www.chefjamesmitchell.com/#!weekly-meal-menu/ts2k0

$31 for a family meal, + taxes, + delivery fee of $5-8 depending on where you live.

How on earth is $40~ per meal cheaper than cooking your own? Some people live on a different planet than the rest of us.

iowajes

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4461 on: May 16, 2016, 10:22:30 AM »

How on earth is $40~ per meal cheaper than cooking your own? Some people live on a different planet than the rest of us.

Yeah, that's crazy.

My Mom and Dad eat out at the country club about 3 nights a week. She told me that their member prices are "so low" it would be impossible to eat this cheaply at home.  Even discounted, it's $10 a person, plus they get wine.  Um, no- not seeing the "impossible" here...

iowajes

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4462 on: May 16, 2016, 10:23:37 AM »
My cousin posted one of those Facebook memories from five years ago. It's a picture of clothes on a clothesline, and the the caption says, "Man, a lot has changed in 5 years..."

I have no idea what she's talking about. I'm afraid to ask because if I was a real friend, I'd already know!

5 years ago she didn't have a dryer, now she does?

MishMash

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4463 on: May 16, 2016, 12:33:07 PM »
So my creepy needy FB friend from earlier in the thread (recap, go fund me for Christmas because she cheated on her DH and he booted her, and the Christmas list consisted of mulitple pages of stuff for her like 100 hair crap, then 3 pages of name brand stuff for her kids, followed by a page of stuff for her pets) is back at it again.

Two weeks ago, boyfriend kicked her to the curb (again this is like the third or fourth time) begging for help to move her stuff, people come move her, last week she moves back in and sets up a Go Fund me for rent of 950 for her and the BF. 

So, can't make this shit up, she just comments on a picture of a baby fox that someone found and goes "Can I come pick it up?   No joke, I was just looking to buy one online!!!!!"  She already has 5 cats and another dog, she was "forced" to re home her other two dogs earlier in the thread because her ex didn't want them and she couldn't take them due to the landlord.  Yet she somehow thinks she can hide a FOX (which is illegal to own in the state, and she said she knew that when someone pointed it out on the thread) I seriously feel bad for that landlord, they have no idea what they've gotten themselves into.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4464 on: May 16, 2016, 12:43:29 PM »

How on earth is $40~ per meal cheaper than cooking your own? Some people live on a different planet than the rest of us.

Yeah, that's crazy.

My Mom and Dad eat out at the country club about 3 nights a week. She told me that their member prices are "so low" it would be impossible to eat this cheaply at home.  Even discounted, it's $10 a person, plushey get wine.  Um, no- not seeing the "impossible" here...

How much are they paying for the privilege of dining at the country club? I wonder how much the meals would cost per person if they were to include these fees into it. Heck I would amortize their joining fees as well into the fold. It's possible that it still might be very affordable if it includes wine and a good meal, but I highly doubt it, but then again I've read that many country clubs have opened their doors to non-members at affordable prices because of declining membership and wanting to stay viable.

iowajes

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4465 on: May 16, 2016, 01:07:02 PM »

How much are they paying for the privilege of dining at the country club? I wonder how much the meals would cost per person if they were to include these fees into it. Heck I would amortize their joining fees as well into the fold. It's possible that it still might be very affordable if it includes wine and a good meal, but I highly doubt it, but then again I've read that many country clubs have opened their doors to non-members at affordable prices because of declining membership and wanting to stay viable.

Oh, dear god, a shit-ton.  But there is no way they aren't going to stay members. And they do 5-10 rounds of golf a week (yes, multiple times a day some weeks.)

They are very bogle head types. Make a ton of money, quite a bit from passive investments (IBM stock paid for multiple college degrees), and spend a ton.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 01:09:15 PM by iowajes »

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4466 on: May 16, 2016, 01:11:09 PM »
In a conversation on a local moms FB group about meal prep and finding shortcuts and cost savings.

"You should go on house of chef James Mitchell it is a company in the Vaudreuil area that caters to the west island they make weekly healthy delicious meals and deliver to your door it costs less then cooking and shopping I use there service and am very satisfied look it up there menus change every week."

This is the company she was referring to: http://www.chefjamesmitchell.com/#!weekly-meal-menu/ts2k0

$31 for a family meal, + taxes, + delivery fee of $5-8 depending on where you live.

How on earth is $40~ per meal cheaper than cooking your own? Some people live on a different planet than the rest of us.

... I live in Quebec, and grocery prices are comparable across the province. There isn't a single thing on his menu that I couldn't make for under 15$ (to feed a family of 4, plus leftovers for at least 2 lunches). Most of the things on his list could be done for under 10$ and under half an hour if you're used to cooking.

I can understand not wanting to cook, and paying for the privilege, but to call it "money saving" is outrageous.

Ceridwen

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4467 on: May 16, 2016, 01:18:01 PM »
In a conversation on a local moms FB group about meal prep and finding shortcuts and cost savings.

"You should go on house of chef James Mitchell it is a company in the Vaudreuil area that caters to the west island they make weekly healthy delicious meals and deliver to your door it costs less then cooking and shopping I use there service and am very satisfied look it up there menus change every week."

This is the company she was referring to: http://www.chefjamesmitchell.com/#!weekly-meal-menu/ts2k0

$31 for a family meal, + taxes, + delivery fee of $5-8 depending on where you live.

How on earth is $40~ per meal cheaper than cooking your own? Some people live on a different planet than the rest of us.

... I live in Quebec, and grocery prices are comparable across the province. There isn't a single thing on his menu that I couldn't make for under 15$ (to feed a family of 4, plus leftovers for at least 2 lunches). Most of the things on his list could be done for under 10$ and under half an hour if you're used to cooking.

I can understand not wanting to cook, and paying for the privilege, but to call it "money saving" is outrageous.

I know.  When I pointed out the flaw in her logic/math, her reply to me was that "we all have our opinions about quality and price".  As if I'm feeding my family Hamburger Helper every night.  SMH.

I have absolutely no problem with people using meal services.  Tell yourself whatever you want to justify the cost in your head.  But don't tell others (when they are seeking help to save money) that this is an affordable solution.

Drifterrider

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4468 on: May 16, 2016, 01:20:26 PM »
My husband, you know, was a single guy who lived alone for 6 years before we married.

When we finally lived together, a couple of my girlfriends asked how I got him to do laundry.  My funny answer is: "I own more underwear".  (Which was true, he'd run out first!)  But really...the guy knows how to run a washing machine, and has since he was 18.

Not a well thought out plan. He may have less underwear but, as a guy, he is prepared to keep wearing it longer than you

Not all of us!!!  I've known how to work a washer (and an iron) since I was 14. 

Kitsune

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4469 on: May 16, 2016, 01:20:52 PM »
In a conversation on a local moms FB group about meal prep and finding shortcuts and cost savings.

"You should go on house of chef James Mitchell it is a company in the Vaudreuil area that caters to the west island they make weekly healthy delicious meals and deliver to your door it costs less then cooking and shopping I use there service and am very satisfied look it up there menus change every week."

This is the company she was referring to: http://www.chefjamesmitchell.com/#!weekly-meal-menu/ts2k0

$31 for a family meal, + taxes, + delivery fee of $5-8 depending on where you live.

How on earth is $40~ per meal cheaper than cooking your own? Some people live on a different planet than the rest of us.

... I live in Quebec, and grocery prices are comparable across the province. There isn't a single thing on his menu that I couldn't make for under 15$ (to feed a family of 4, plus leftovers for at least 2 lunches). Most of the things on his list could be done for under 10$ and under half an hour if you're used to cooking.

I can understand not wanting to cook, and paying for the privilege, but to call it "money saving" is outrageous.

I know.  When I pointed out the flaw in her logic/math, her reply to me was that "we all have our opinions about quality and price".  As if I'm feeding my family Hamburger Helper every night.  SMH.

I have absolutely no problem with people using meal services.  Tell yourself whatever you want to justify the cost in your head.  But don't tell others (when they are seeking help to save money) that this is an affordable solution.


Ooooh. I HATE the whole "everyone is entitled to their opinion" thing.

All opinions are allowed to exist. True. But some opinions are based on facts, and therefore have more actual value.

I can be of the opinion that my face is green, but that doesn't meant anyone should listen to me OR that I'm right about it. Back up your opinions with facts, and then we'll talk.

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4470 on: May 16, 2016, 01:27:10 PM »
In a conversation on a local moms FB group about meal prep and finding shortcuts and cost savings.

"You should go on house of chef James Mitchell it is a company in the Vaudreuil area that caters to the west island they make weekly healthy delicious meals and deliver to your door it costs less then cooking and shopping I use there service and am very satisfied look it up there menus change every week."

This is the company she was referring to: http://www.chefjamesmitchell.com/#!weekly-meal-menu/ts2k0

$31 for a family meal, + taxes, + delivery fee of $5-8 depending on where you live.

How on earth is $40~ per meal cheaper than cooking your own? Some people live on a different planet than the rest of us.

... I live in Quebec, and grocery prices are comparable across the province. There isn't a single thing on his menu that I couldn't make for under 15$ (to feed a family of 4, plus leftovers for at least 2 lunches). Most of the things on his list could be done for under 10$ and under half an hour if you're used to cooking.

I can understand not wanting to cook, and paying for the privilege, but to call it "money saving" is outrageous.

I know.  When I pointed out the flaw in her logic/math, her reply to me was that "we all have our opinions about quality and price".  As if I'm feeding my family Hamburger Helper every night.  SMH.

I have absolutely no problem with people using meal services.  Tell yourself whatever you want to justify the cost in your head.  But don't tell others (when they are seeking help to save money) that this is an affordable solution.


Ooooh. I HATE the whole "everyone is entitled to their opinion" thing.

All opinions are allowed to exist. True. But some opinions are based on facts, and therefore have more actual value.

I can be of the opinion that my face is green, but that doesn't meant anyone should listen to me OR that I'm right about it. Back up your opinions with facts, and then we'll talk.
it costs less then cooking and shopping
This isn't an opinion, it is either true or not. 

BlueHouse

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4471 on: May 16, 2016, 01:37:03 PM »

How on earth is $40~ per meal cheaper than cooking your own? Some people live on a different planet than the rest of us.

Yeah, that's crazy.

My Mom and Dad eat out at the country club about 3 nights a week. She told me that their member prices are "so low" it would be impossible to eat this cheaply at home.  Even discounted, it's $10 a person, plushey get wine.  Um, no- not seeing the "impossible" here...

How much are they paying for the privilege of dining at the country club? I wonder how much the meals would cost per person if they were to include these fees into it. Heck I would amortize their joining fees as well into the fold. It's possible that it still might be very affordable if it includes wine and a good meal, but I highly doubt it, but then again I've read that many country clubs have opened their doors to non-members at affordable prices because of declining membership and wanting to stay viable.
My sister's club has a minimum amount that they must spend monthly for food at the club (does not include drinks).  So at least once a month, I get the phone call that we have to go out to eat at the club or else the money goes down the drain.  I just don't understand the attraction of golf, so I'll never understand wanting to belong to the club.  Plus, they are very snobby (not my sister, but many of the other people)
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

RWD

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4472 on: May 16, 2016, 02:33:31 PM »
I just don't understand the attraction of golf, so I'll never understand wanting to belong to the club.  Plus, they are very snobby (not my sister, but many of the other people)

You have to play a lot of golf for joining a club to even remotely make sense. I read this article to try and make sense of it but found it sounded even worse than I had imagined:
http://www.golfdigest.com/story/privateclubs_avery
Quote
As a member you become responsible for [the club's debt], and liable for lump payments if the board decides to wipe out the balance.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4473 on: May 16, 2016, 02:58:59 PM »

How on earth is $40~ per meal cheaper than cooking your own? Some people live on a different planet than the rest of us.

Yeah, that's crazy.

My Mom and Dad eat out at the country club about 3 nights a week. She told me that their member prices are "so low" it would be impossible to eat this cheaply at home.  Even discounted, it's $10 a person, plushey get wine.  Um, no- not seeing the "impossible" here...

How much are they paying for the privilege of dining at the country club? I wonder how much the meals would cost per person if they were to include these fees into it. Heck I would amortize their joining fees as well into the fold. It's possible that it still might be very affordable if it includes wine and a good meal, but I highly doubt it, but then again I've read that many country clubs have opened their doors to non-members at affordable prices because of declining membership and wanting to stay viable.
My sister's club has a minimum amount that they must spend monthly for food at the club (does not include drinks).  So at least once a month, I get the phone call that we have to go out to eat at the club or else the money goes down the drain.  I just don't understand the attraction of golf, so I'll never understand wanting to belong to the club.  Plus, they are very snobby (not my sister, but many of the other people)
he'll
A buddy of mine has a few friends that belong to clubs like the one your sister goes to and he loves it as he'll get taken out to eat several times a year because of minimum spending requirements. He'll of course pinch in or treat them in return as he's not a moocher, but it's a pretty sweet arrangement for him. I kinda think of it as an ancillary benefit, like having a friend that owns a boat or one that owns a cabin that he'll invite you to use.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4474 on: May 16, 2016, 04:19:00 PM »
My husband, you know, was a single guy who lived alone for 6 years before we married.

When we finally lived together, a couple of my girlfriends asked how I got him to do laundry.  My funny answer is: "I own more underwear".  (Which was true, he'd run out first!)  But really...the guy knows how to run a washing machine, and has since he was 18.

Not a well thought out plan. He may have less underwear but, as a guy, he is prepared to keep wearing it longer than you

Not all of us!!!  I've known how to work a washer (and an iron) since I was 14.
Yeah, not him either.  I mean, I figured out when we were dating that if I left my dirty clothing in his apartment, he'd wash them.  (He had a WD, I had to use a laundromat).

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4475 on: May 19, 2016, 12:48:53 PM »
I also clean up and it is not particularly hard.  It also helps ensure things are really clean and not just "rub a dirty rag on the toilet then on the sink" clean.

That's the main reason I won't hire cleaning people (cost being #2). I actually tried it at one point, but the work didn't even rise to the level of halfassed.

The last time, I specifically asked that they mop the kitchen floor because it was a mess. They swept half of it onto the other half, and just left the pile of crumbs there. No mopping at all. I caught them on the way to the car and they tried to tell me that I should just sweep up the last bit myself - as if I was paying them so that I could sweep and mop my own floors.

Of course the same thing applies to a lot of home repairs - I've seen some spectacularly halfassed work from contractors, even when they know someone is going to check it.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4476 on: May 19, 2016, 01:37:24 PM »
I also clean up and it is not particularly hard.  It also helps ensure things are really clean and not just "rub a dirty rag on the toilet then on the sink" clean.

That's the main reason I won't hire cleaning people (cost being #2). I actually tried it at one point, but the work didn't even rise to the level of halfassed.

The last time, I specifically asked that they mop the kitchen floor because it was a mess. They swept half of it onto the other half, and just left the pile of crumbs there. No mopping at all. I caught them on the way to the car and they tried to tell me that I should just sweep up the last bit myself - as if I was paying them so that I could sweep and mop my own floors.

Of course the same thing applies to a lot of home repairs - I've seen some spectacularly halfassed work from contractors, even when they know someone is going to check it.

Huh. I've had the complete opposite experience with cleaners (not with a cleaning service. The service half-assed it. The individually-hired cleaners did a GREAT job).

I hired someone for the first time in 3 years, and she came for the first time last week. I keep turning around intending to get to something  and finding she got to it before I did. Or looking at a particularly stubborn stain/burnt-on thing on the oven/etc and finding that she dealt with it, and I have no idea how, I've been scrubbing it with cleaners for 6 months...

And, frankly: to do a job that's 70% as good as what she does takes me twice the time. This woman is efficient and knows what she's doing.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4477 on: May 22, 2016, 06:23:13 AM »
So my creepy needy FB friend from earlier in the thread (recap, go fund me for Christmas because she cheated on her DH and he booted her, and the Christmas list consisted of mulitple pages of stuff for her like 100 hair crap, then 3 pages of name brand stuff for her kids, followed by a page of stuff for her pets) is back at it again.

Two weeks ago, boyfriend kicked her to the curb (again this is like the third or fourth time) begging for help to move her stuff, people come move her, last week she moves back in and sets up a Go Fund me for rent of 950 for her and the BF. 

So, can't make this shit up, she just comments on a picture of a baby fox that someone found and goes "Can I come pick it up?   No joke, I was just looking to buy one online!!!!!"  She already has 5 cats and another dog, she was "forced" to re home her other two dogs earlier in the thread because her ex didn't want them and she couldn't take them due to the landlord.  Yet she somehow thinks she can hide a FOX (which is illegal to own in the state, and she said she knew that when someone pointed it out on the thread) I seriously feel bad for that landlord, they have no idea what they've gotten themselves into.
Well, if the fox ate the cats it could save her money overall?
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4478 on: May 24, 2016, 09:56:07 AM »
So my creepy needy FB friend from earlier in the thread (recap, go fund me for Christmas because she cheated on her DH and he booted her, and the Christmas list consisted of mulitple pages of stuff for her like 100 hair crap, then 3 pages of name brand stuff for her kids, followed by a page of stuff for her pets) is back at it again.

Two weeks ago, boyfriend kicked her to the curb (again this is like the third or fourth time) begging for help to move her stuff, people come move her, last week she moves back in and sets up a Go Fund me for rent of 950 for her and the BF. 

So, can't make this shit up, she just comments on a picture of a baby fox that someone found and goes "Can I come pick it up?   No joke, I was just looking to buy one online!!!!!"  She already has 5 cats and another dog, she was "forced" to re home her other two dogs earlier in the thread because her ex didn't want them and she couldn't take them due to the landlord.  Yet she somehow thinks she can hide a FOX (which is illegal to own in the state, and she said she knew that when someone pointed it out on the thread) I seriously feel bad for that landlord, they have no idea what they've gotten themselves into.
Well, if the fox ate the cats it could save her money overall?

Yea up until the state smacks her with a few K fine.  She literally can't come up with money for rent, her car is being repo'd (it was around christmas, no clue if it actually went through) but she wants to buy a FOX online, and keeps...adopting....pets.  She's also SUPREMELY pissed that the ex husband isn't paying her any money and thinks the military should be making him.  He has custody of the kids and she didn't bother to get a lawyer.

Warlord1986

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4479 on: May 24, 2016, 09:57:20 AM »
This woman sounds rather sick. Are you sure there isn't a mental problem going on?

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4480 on: May 24, 2016, 10:17:42 AM »
This woman sounds rather sick. Are you sure there isn't a mental problem going on?

She's depressive and on meds at the moment, which I am not really shocked about given the situation.   She's had impulse control issues for a while, her family forced her to a doctor after she racked up 65k in credit card debt in ONE summer during college.  Docs did tests and stuff and pretty much said she wasn't chemically imbalanced, we were still somewhat close at that time.  Things were fine for years while she was married, she was ALWAYS a spender and they were always broke as a result but nothing like what's been going on this past year. 

She fell for her husbands good friend, and literally upped and left her family 2 months after the ex husband bought her "the house of her dreams".  Now the two of them pretty much feed off each others negative emotions.  He doesn't work and is verbally abusive, she went from affording (for the most part) her expensive lifestyle to being dead broke and actually having to get more than a 1 day a week job, with no real job skills.  She honestly thought she could move in with the boyfriend and have the ex continue to fund her and has gotten a VERY rude awakening and welcome into actual adulthood, one where her parents aren't bailing her out and the husband has rightfully said go F yourself.   

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4481 on: May 24, 2016, 10:19:32 AM »
This woman sounds rather sick. Are you sure there isn't a mental problem going on?

She's depressive and on meds at the moment, which I am not really shocked about given the situation.   She's had impulse control issues for a while, her family forced her to a doctor after she racked up 65k in credit card debt in ONE summer during college.  Docs did tests and stuff and pretty much said she wasn't chemically imbalanced, we were still somewhat close at that time.  Things were fine for years while she was married, she was ALWAYS a spender and they were always broke as a result but nothing like what's been going on this past year. 

She fell for her husbands good friend, and literally upped and left her family 2 months after the ex husband bought her "the house of her dreams".  Now the two of them pretty much feed off each others negative emotions.  He doesn't work and is verbally abusive, she went from affording (for the most part) her expensive lifestyle to being dead broke and actually having to get more than a 1 day a week job, with no real job skills.  She honestly thought she could move in with the boyfriend and have the ex continue to fund her and has gotten a VERY rude awakening and welcome into actual adulthood, one where her parents aren't bailing her out and the husband has rightfully said go F yourself.   

I've seen other humans with this same delusion. What do you think causes it?
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dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4482 on: May 24, 2016, 12:13:25 PM »
This woman sounds rather sick. Are you sure there isn't a mental problem going on?

She's depressive and on meds at the moment, which I am not really shocked about given the situation.   She's had impulse control issues for a while, her family forced her to a doctor after she racked up 65k in credit card debt in ONE summer during college.  Docs did tests and stuff and pretty much said she wasn't chemically imbalanced, we were still somewhat close at that time.  Things were fine for years while she was married, she was ALWAYS a spender and they were always broke as a result but nothing like what's been going on this past year. 

She fell for her husbands good friend, and literally upped and left her family 2 months after the ex husband bought her "the house of her dreams".  Now the two of them pretty much feed off each others negative emotions.  He doesn't work and is verbally abusive, she went from affording (for the most part) her expensive lifestyle to being dead broke and actually having to get more than a 1 day a week job, with no real job skills.  She honestly thought she could move in with the boyfriend and have the ex continue to fund her and has gotten a VERY rude awakening and welcome into actual adulthood, one where her parents aren't bailing her out and the husband has rightfully said go F yourself.   

I've seen other humans with this same delusion. What do you think causes it?

The fact that sometimes divorce settlements actually are very generous.  But that's usually in the case of fabulous wealth, where the settlement involves merely ridiculous wealth

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4483 on: May 24, 2016, 12:26:38 PM »
This woman sounds rather sick. Are you sure there isn't a mental problem going on?

She's depressive and on meds at the moment, which I am not really shocked about given the situation.   She's had impulse control issues for a while, her family forced her to a doctor after she racked up 65k in credit card debt in ONE summer during college.  Docs did tests and stuff and pretty much said she wasn't chemically imbalanced, we were still somewhat close at that time.  Things were fine for years while she was married, she was ALWAYS a spender and they were always broke as a result but nothing like what's been going on this past year. 

She fell for her husbands good friend, and literally upped and left her family 2 months after the ex husband bought her "the house of her dreams".  Now the two of them pretty much feed off each others negative emotions.  He doesn't work and is verbally abusive, she went from affording (for the most part) her expensive lifestyle to being dead broke and actually having to get more than a 1 day a week job, with no real job skills.  She honestly thought she could move in with the boyfriend and have the ex continue to fund her and has gotten a VERY rude awakening and welcome into actual adulthood, one where her parents aren't bailing her out and the husband has rightfully said go F yourself.   

I've seen other humans with this same delusion. What do you think causes it?

The fact that sometimes divorce settlements actually are very generous.  But that's usually in the case of fabulous wealth, where the settlement involves merely ridiculous wealth
Today I Learned:  fabulous is mathematically greater than ridiculous

MrMoogle

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4484 on: May 24, 2016, 12:31:24 PM »
He could have said:
But that's usually in the case of ridiculous wealth, where the settlement involves merely fabulous wealth

And it would have made plenty of sense :)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4485 on: May 24, 2016, 12:43:47 PM »
He could have said:
But that's usually in the case of ridiculous wealth, where the settlement involves merely fabulous wealth

And it would have made plenty of sense :)
So which way is it?  Is fabulous more than ridiculous, or is it the other way around?

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4486 on: May 24, 2016, 01:46:28 PM »
He could have said:
But that's usually in the case of ridiculous wealth, where the settlement involves merely fabulous wealth

And it would have made plenty of sense :)
So which way is it?  Is fabulous more than ridiculous, or is it the other way around?
As an engineer, I hate to say it, but everything can't be represented by math.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4487 on: May 24, 2016, 01:54:32 PM »
fabulous has a gematria value of 582
ridiculous has a gematria value of 786
It's not about money, it's about mindset

Joggernot

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4488 on: May 24, 2016, 03:03:32 PM »
And if you number the alphabet from 1 to 26 and sum the appropriate numbers for the letters you get:
fabulous           =     97
ridiculous         =   131
Thus, ridiculous is greater than fabulous by this system as well.

former player

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4489 on: May 25, 2016, 01:33:49 AM »
But ridiculous is merely laughable whereas fabulous is unbelievable and therefore bigger.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

barbaz

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4490 on: May 25, 2016, 05:21:02 AM »
And if you number the alphabet from 1 to 26 and sum the appropriate numbers for the letters you get:
fabulous           =     97
ridiculous         =   131
Thus, ridiculous is greater than fabulous by this system as well.
Sometimes less is more.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4491 on: May 25, 2016, 09:28:01 AM »
Sometimes less is more.

No, 55 != 51

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4492 on: May 25, 2016, 09:41:41 AM »
I also clean up and it is not particularly hard.  It also helps ensure things are really clean and not just "rub a dirty rag on the toilet then on the sink" clean.

That's the main reason I won't hire cleaning people (cost being #2). I actually tried it at one point, but the work didn't even rise to the level of halfassed.

The last time, I specifically asked that they mop the kitchen floor because it was a mess. They swept half of it onto the other half, and just left the pile of crumbs there. No mopping at all. I caught them on the way to the car and they tried to tell me that I should just sweep up the last bit myself - as if I was paying them so that I could sweep and mop my own floors.

Of course the same thing applies to a lot of home repairs - I've seen some spectacularly halfassed work from contractors, even when they know someone is going to check it.

Huh. I've had the complete opposite experience with cleaners (not with a cleaning service. The service half-assed it. The individually-hired cleaners did a GREAT job).

I hired someone for the first time in 3 years, and she came for the first time last week. I keep turning around intending to get to something  and finding she got to it before I did. Or looking at a particularly stubborn stain/burnt-on thing on the oven/etc and finding that she dealt with it, and I have no idea how, I've been scrubbing it with cleaners for 6 months...

And, frankly: to do a job that's 70% as good as what she does takes me twice the time. This woman is efficient and knows what she's doing.
I've found the same.  We talked about getting a cleaner for years.  My husband was hesitant.  So any friend who had one, I asked if they liked them.

I got "Yeah, but she's  got a long waiting list" and "she'd great but she doesn't do deep cleaning."  Which: no.  I want deep cleaning!

Eventually got a "she's great!"  Now, it's actually a service - an individual women who hires other women.  Bonded, insured, but small.  She has a "list" they follow.  They scrub out the microwave, the fridge, the toaster oven.  They clean the seal on the fridge.  Seriously would take me forever to do all that.

mlejw6

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4493 on: May 25, 2016, 12:02:06 PM »
But ridiculous is merely laughable whereas fabulous is unbelievable and therefore bigger.

I would never conflate fabulous with unbelievable.
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dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4494 on: May 25, 2016, 12:55:51 PM »
I also clean up and it is not particularly hard.  It also helps ensure things are really clean and not just "rub a dirty rag on the toilet then on the sink" clean.

That's the main reason I won't hire cleaning people (cost being #2). I actually tried it at one point, but the work didn't even rise to the level of halfassed.

The last time, I specifically asked that they mop the kitchen floor because it was a mess. They swept half of it onto the other half, and just left the pile of crumbs there. No mopping at all. I caught them on the way to the car and they tried to tell me that I should just sweep up the last bit myself - as if I was paying them so that I could sweep and mop my own floors.

Of course the same thing applies to a lot of home repairs - I've seen some spectacularly halfassed work from contractors, even when they know someone is going to check it.

Huh. I've had the complete opposite experience with cleaners (not with a cleaning service. The service half-assed it. The individually-hired cleaners did a GREAT job).

I hired someone for the first time in 3 years, and she came for the first time last week. I keep turning around intending to get to something  and finding she got to it before I did. Or looking at a particularly stubborn stain/burnt-on thing on the oven/etc and finding that she dealt with it, and I have no idea how, I've been scrubbing it with cleaners for 6 months...

And, frankly: to do a job that's 70% as good as what she does takes me twice the time. This woman is efficient and knows what she's doing.
I've found the same.  We talked about getting a cleaner for years.  My husband was hesitant.  So any friend who had one, I asked if they liked them.

I got "Yeah, but she's  got a long waiting list" and "she'd great but she doesn't do deep cleaning."  Which: no.  I want deep cleaning!

Eventually got a "she's great!"  Now, it's actually a service - an individual women who hires other women.  Bonded, insured, but small.  She has a "list" they follow.  They scrub out the microwave, the fridge, the toaster oven.  They clean the seal on the fridge.  Seriously would take me forever to do all that.

Eh, I guess it doesn't take me long cause I'm a clean as you go type of guy.  If I use the microwave and make a mess (rare since I cover everything) I wipe it up immediately before it needs "scrubbing".  While I have the sponge in my hand, the fridge seal takes an extra 5 seconds. 

That said, if I found someone who was both cheap and good, I'm not Morally opposed to hiring a cleaner.  If I lived in a lower cost area (for example a different country where I could get hours of work for $10/mo) I might do it-- although I really don't like people touching my stuff.

Ever since I got a dog I've been vacuuming way more-- like 4x as often.  But it's decent cardiovascular exercise, so I don't gain much paying someone to do it

But I'm in a high cost of living area so I don't think I will ever get my money's worth without somehow breaking the law (under the table, less than minimum wage which is $10/hr)

Serious question though, what kind of crazy messes are you making that require so much effort to clean?  Is it a kid thing?  If I had a baby throwin food everywhere I'd be more inclined to hire someone so I could focus on the baby
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 12:58:06 PM by dragoncar »

onlykelsey

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4495 on: May 25, 2016, 01:02:10 PM »
I also clean up and it is not particularly hard.  It also helps ensure things are really clean and not just "rub a dirty rag on the toilet then on the sink" clean.

That's the main reason I won't hire cleaning people (cost being #2). I actually tried it at one point, but the work didn't even rise to the level of halfassed.

The last time, I specifically asked that they mop the kitchen floor because it was a mess. They swept half of it onto the other half, and just left the pile of crumbs there. No mopping at all. I caught them on the way to the car and they tried to tell me that I should just sweep up the last bit myself - as if I was paying them so that I could sweep and mop my own floors.

Of course the same thing applies to a lot of home repairs - I've seen some spectacularly halfassed work from contractors, even when they know someone is going to check it.

Huh. I've had the complete opposite experience with cleaners (not with a cleaning service. The service half-assed it. The individually-hired cleaners did a GREAT job).

I hired someone for the first time in 3 years, and she came for the first time last week. I keep turning around intending to get to something  and finding she got to it before I did. Or looking at a particularly stubborn stain/burnt-on thing on the oven/etc and finding that she dealt with it, and I have no idea how, I've been scrubbing it with cleaners for 6 months...

And, frankly: to do a job that's 70% as good as what she does takes me twice the time. This woman is efficient and knows what she's doing.
I've found the same.  We talked about getting a cleaner for years.  My husband was hesitant.  So any friend who had one, I asked if they liked them.

I got "Yeah, but she's  got a long waiting list" and "she'd great but she doesn't do deep cleaning."  Which: no.  I want deep cleaning!

Eventually got a "she's great!"  Now, it's actually a service - an individual women who hires other women.  Bonded, insured, but small.  She has a "list" they follow.  They scrub out the microwave, the fridge, the toaster oven.  They clean the seal on the fridge.  Seriously would take me forever to do all that.

Eh, I guess it doesn't take me long cause I'm a clean as you go type of guy.  If I use the microwave and make a mess (rare since I cover everything) I wipe it up immediately before it needs "scrubbing".  While I have the sponge in my hand, the fridge seal takes an extra 5 seconds. 

That said, if I found someone who was both cheap and good, I'm not Morally opposed to hiring a cleaner.  If I lived in a lower cost area (for example a different country where I could get hours of work for $10/mo) I might do it-- although I really don't like people touching my stuff.

Ever since I got a dog I've been vacuuming way more-- like 4x as often.  But it's decent cardiovascular exercise, so I don't gain much paying someone to do it

But I'm in a high cost of living area so I don't think I will ever get my money's worth without somehow breaking the law (under the table, less than minimum wage which is $10/hr)

Serious question though, what kind of crazy messes are you making that require so much effort to clean?  Is it a kid thing?  If I had a baby throwin food everywhere I'd be more inclined to hire someone so I could focus on the baby

I don't have a cleaning person (I think I may get one soon, especially with a kid on the way), but I think a lot of the reason I want one has to do with my dog and the fact that I live in Manhattan.  I feel like i'm constantly bringing in grime that grosses me out (in a way dirt from the backyard didn't) and know I'm exposed to a crazy number of pathogens.  Honestly, my husband's cooking habits (and god bless him for cooking) is part of it.  When I get home at one am, there is little to no chance I am starting to scrub a caked-on stove, or waking up my husband to do it.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4496 on: May 25, 2016, 01:09:10 PM »

Eh, I guess it doesn't take me long cause I'm a clean as you go type of guy.  If I use the microwave and make a mess (rare since I cover everything) I wipe it up immediately before it needs "scrubbing".  While I have the sponge in my hand, the fridge seal takes an extra 5 seconds. 

It's shocking but I recently learned this. My roommate does this and I have followed suit and wow does my kitchen and living room look so much better and it isn't all that much work. It takes less than a minute to wash up dishes after a meal, and seconds to wipe down something if it has spilled. Now I just need to do things like clean the floor every so often.
Ever since I got a dog I've been vacuuming way more-- like 4x as often.  But it's decent cardiovascular exercise, so I don't gain much paying someone to do it

What type of dog?

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4497 on: May 25, 2016, 01:25:14 PM »

Eh, I guess it doesn't take me long cause I'm a clean as you go type of guy.  If I use the microwave and make a mess (rare since I cover everything) I wipe it up immediately before it needs "scrubbing".  While I have the sponge in my hand, the fridge seal takes an extra 5 seconds. 

It's shocking but I recently learned this. My roommate does this and I have followed suit and wow does my kitchen and living room look so much better and it isn't all that much work. It takes less than a minute to wash up dishes after a meal, and seconds to wipe down something if it has spilled. Now I just need to do things like clean the floor every so often.
Ever since I got a dog I've been vacuuming way more-- like 4x as often.  But it's decent cardiovascular exercise, so I don't gain much paying someone to do it

What type of dog?

Some kind of lab.  He was recently shedding his undercoat so hopefully it gets better until fall

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4498 on: May 25, 2016, 01:28:23 PM »

Eh, I guess it doesn't take me long cause I'm a clean as you go type of guy.  If I use the microwave and make a mess (rare since I cover everything) I wipe it up immediately before it needs "scrubbing".  While I have the sponge in my hand, the fridge seal takes an extra 5 seconds. 

It's shocking but I recently learned this. My roommate does this and I have followed suit and wow does my kitchen and living room look so much better and it isn't all that much work. It takes less than a minute to wash up dishes after a meal, and seconds to wipe down something if it has spilled. Now I just need to do things like clean the floor every so often.
Ever since I got a dog I've been vacuuming way more-- like 4x as often.  But it's decent cardiovascular exercise, so I don't gain much paying someone to do it

What type of dog?

Some kind of lab.  He was recently shedding his undercoat so hopefully it gets better until fall

I'm guessing he's a rescue? I love labs, such amazing creatures, so loyal and friendly.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #4499 on: May 25, 2016, 02:24:03 PM »
I also clean up and it is not particularly hard.  It also helps ensure things are really clean and not just "rub a dirty rag on the toilet then on the sink" clean.

That's the main reason I won't hire cleaning people (cost being #2). I actually tried it at one point, but the work didn't even rise to the level of halfassed.

The last time, I specifically asked that they mop the kitchen floor because it was a mess. They swept half of it onto the other half, and just left the pile of crumbs there. No mopping at all. I caught them on the way to the car and they tried to tell me that I should just sweep up the last bit myself - as if I was paying them so that I could sweep and mop my own floors.

Of course the same thing applies to a lot of home repairs - I've seen some spectacularly halfassed work from contractors, even when they know someone is going to check it.

Huh. I've had the complete opposite experience with cleaners (not with a cleaning service. The service half-assed it. The individually-hired cleaners did a GREAT job).

I hired someone for the first time in 3 years, and she came for the first time last week. I keep turning around intending to get to something  and finding she got to it before I did. Or looking at a particularly stubborn stain/burnt-on thing on the oven/etc and finding that she dealt with it, and I have no idea how, I've been scrubbing it with cleaners for 6 months...

And, frankly: to do a job that's 70% as good as what she does takes me twice the time. This woman is efficient and knows what she's doing.
I've found the same.  We talked about getting a cleaner for years.  My husband was hesitant.  So any friend who had one, I asked if they liked them.

I got "Yeah, but she's  got a long waiting list" and "she'd great but she doesn't do deep cleaning."  Which: no.  I want deep cleaning!

Eventually got a "she's great!"  Now, it's actually a service - an individual women who hires other women.  Bonded, insured, but small.  She has a "list" they follow.  They scrub out the microwave, the fridge, the toaster oven.  They clean the seal on the fridge.  Seriously would take me forever to do all that.

Eh, I guess it doesn't take me long cause I'm a clean as you go type of guy.  If I use the microwave and make a mess (rare since I cover everything) I wipe it up immediately before it needs "scrubbing".  While I have the sponge in my hand, the fridge seal takes an extra 5 seconds. 

That said, if I found someone who was both cheap and good, I'm not Morally opposed to hiring a cleaner.  If I lived in a lower cost area (for example a different country where I could get hours of work for $10/mo) I might do it-- although I really don't like people touching my stuff.

Ever since I got a dog I've been vacuuming way more-- like 4x as often.  But it's decent cardiovascular exercise, so I don't gain much paying someone to do it

But I'm in a high cost of living area so I don't think I will ever get my money's worth without somehow breaking the law (under the table, less than minimum wage which is $10/hr)

Serious question though, what kind of crazy messes are you making that require so much effort to clean?  Is it a kid thing?  If I had a baby throwin food everywhere I'd be more inclined to hire someone so I could focus on the baby
Yup, 2 kids.  Not surprisingly, first hired cleaning person when older kid was 1 year old. 

Younger is still a toddler.  Food throwing (dropping) is an issue.