Author Topic: Overheard on Facebook  (Read 2485686 times)

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2600 on: July 09, 2015, 11:56:54 AM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price. 

RWD

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2601 on: July 09, 2015, 12:29:44 PM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).

Heh, yeah, you need to know the right person to bring with you.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2602 on: July 09, 2015, 05:08:28 PM »
Heh, yeah, you need to know the right person to bring with you.
Maybe I'm weird, but I would get a kick out of tagging along with a fellow Mustachian when they are making big purchases. Or have them keep me level-headed when I'm the one doing the buying. It would be a great learning experience for real estate.

gimp

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2603 on: July 09, 2015, 05:43:36 PM »
It's even more fun to tag along and just be the Silent Observer. Firm look on your face, don't say anything the whole time.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2604 on: July 09, 2015, 05:47:00 PM »
It's even more fun to tag along and just be the Silent Observer. Firm look on your face, don't say anything the whole time.

Once in a while, your friend says "I don't know about that, let me ask my manager," you whisper back and forth, then "sorry, can't do it"

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2605 on: July 09, 2015, 05:56:32 PM »
It's even more fun to tag along and just be the Silent Observer. Firm look on your face, don't say anything the whole time.

Once in a while, your friend says "I don't know about that, let me ask my manager," you whisper back and forth, then "sorry, can't do it"

Hahahahahaha!

gimp

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2606 on: July 09, 2015, 07:44:38 PM »
"I'm sorry, the manager says that the highest we can do for the undercoating is -$200. Normally I'd ask for $100 off the price, but with this guy on my balls, the best I can offer is a $200 fee."

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2607 on: July 09, 2015, 11:27:33 PM »
"I'm sorry, the manager says that the highest we can do for the undercoating is -$200. Normally I'd ask for $100 off the price, but with this guy on my balls, the best I can offer is a $200 fee."

If they start talking to you directly, tell them you have to call corporate and step out.

boyerbt

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2608 on: July 10, 2015, 06:10:14 AM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Did they end up paying for your lunch?
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geekette

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2609 on: July 10, 2015, 04:35:01 PM »
Waaaay back I went with my SIL to buy a car.  At one point she said "too high" and he opened a drawer in his desk, looked in, and lowered the price.

We joked about his manager in the drawer for years.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2610 on: July 11, 2015, 02:07:54 AM »
Heh, yeah, you need to know the right person to bring with you.
Maybe I'm weird, but I would get a kick out of tagging along with a fellow Mustachian when they are making big purchases. Or have them keep me level-headed when I'm the one doing the buying. It would be a great learning experience for real estate.

I too would love to do this but for things I know a lot about which is, um, clothes. But if anyone needs a tough negotiator while vintage/second hand clothes shopping, I'm there!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 02:19:49 AM by shelivesthedream »

lemanfan

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2611 on: July 11, 2015, 02:40:09 AM »
Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Yay! :)

Basic negotation theory: The party that has the option to say no usually wins the deal in a win-lose-situation.

forummm

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2612 on: July 11, 2015, 06:50:20 AM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Never negotiate in a dealership. You wasted your whole day. And probably paid more than you could have gotten elsewhere. Just send emails through local dealer contact forms on their websites asking what their out-the-door price is on the exact model and options you want. Tell them you are asking dealers for their best prices. Let them compete against each other while you go about your life. Ignore their responses to "come on in". Just get the best number. If you like the best one, go with it.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2613 on: July 12, 2015, 11:58:58 PM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Never negotiate in a dealership. You wasted your whole day. And probably paid more than you could have gotten elsewhere. Just send emails through local dealer contact forms on their websites asking what their out-the-door price is on the exact model and options you want. Tell them you are asking dealers for their best prices. Let them compete against each other while you go about your life. Ignore their responses to "come on in". Just get the best number. If you like the best one, go with it.

Does this work differently for used cars? I've never bought a car from a dealership, I just bought my mom's old car about 5 years ago.

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2614 on: July 13, 2015, 08:57:12 AM »
nope. Just email. If they supply a good price, great. if too high or fuzzy answer, walk.
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forummm

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2615 on: July 13, 2015, 10:29:31 AM »
For a used car you can probably get a much better deal on craigslist.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2616 on: July 13, 2015, 11:19:41 AM »
Heh, yeah, you need to know the right person to bring with you.
Maybe I'm weird, but I would get a kick out of tagging along with a fellow Mustachian when they are making big purchases. Or have them keep me level-headed when I'm the one doing the buying. It would be a great learning experience for real estate.

When I told the story about my wife carpet-bombing my negotiation, one of my friends offered to go with me next time to pose as my gay lover to help with the purchase. He's a shrewd negotiator (my age, and owns about 30 rentals plus a property management business with ~150 clients). I totally would have taken him up on the offer, but we're still in the same car, and plan to be for at least a couple more years.
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Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2617 on: July 13, 2015, 11:23:56 AM »
For a used car you can probably get a much better deal on craigslist.

Personally, I've never had any luck finding a specific car on craigslist. I've never lived by a major population center, either, so that probably doesn't help.
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SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2618 on: July 13, 2015, 12:26:46 PM »
If you're a savvy shopper, flying to one is worth it.
I got my 2006 Audi A4 with all the options I wanted for $2500 less than my locality by flying to the east coast.
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bludreamin

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2619 on: July 13, 2015, 12:52:08 PM »
If you're a savvy shopper, flying to one is worth it.
I got my 2006 Audi A4 with all the options I wanted for $2500 less than my locality by flying to the east coast.
I've thought of doing this but mostly to get out of areas where they salt in the winter for I've control. I think rust is going to be what ends up being the deciding factor when i get a "new" car.  Oh and of course would only consider if savings pays for flight, gas, lodging and time to drive back.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2620 on: July 13, 2015, 01:34:58 PM »
If you're a savvy shopper, flying to one is worth it.
I got my 2006 Audi A4 with all the options I wanted for $2500 less than my locality by flying to the east coast.

I've considered traveling several states for a deal before, but I was always too worried that there would be some undisclosed issue upon arrival, leaving me with lots of expenses and no deal. With the price range of cars that I'm interested in, it makes things even more difficult when you have to figure in travel costs.
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forummm

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2621 on: July 13, 2015, 02:44:39 PM »
If you're a savvy shopper, flying to one is worth it.
I got my 2006 Audi A4 with all the options I wanted for $2500 less than my locality by flying to the east coast.

I've considered traveling several states for a deal before, but I was always too worried that there would be some undisclosed issue upon arrival, leaving me with lots of expenses and no deal. With the price range of cars that I'm interested in, it makes things even more difficult when you have to figure in travel costs.

Do the paperwork remotely and have them ship it to you.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2622 on: July 13, 2015, 02:53:17 PM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Never negotiate in a dealership. You wasted your whole day. And probably paid more than you could have gotten elsewhere. Just send emails through local dealer contact forms on their websites asking what their out-the-door price is on the exact model and options you want. Tell them you are asking dealers for their best prices. Let them compete against each other while you go about your life. Ignore their responses to "come on in". Just get the best number. If you like the best one, go with it.

So, we actually did what you suggest for the next car.

From my research through Consumer Reports (and other sources), it seems like we got the same deal.  We went home that day with this car, and realized that when we made the offer, the car had a few extras on it that we hadn't considered (CR says "this is the least you could expect to get the car for given this type and these extras"), but we were starting with an artificially low number.  Let's just say that the full day, they kept congratulating new owners and taking pictures and giving balloons.  For us?  They literally tossed the keys at us and said "see you later".  The first guy we met with in the lot  (who soon after handed us off to his boss) chased us down as we were leaving to tell us that we must have gotten a good deal because his boss was pissed.  Maybe he was trying to make us feel better? 

But we bought a Civic 3 years later by emailing several dealerships as far as 5 hours away, and the local dealership agreed to match the lowest price (which was 5 hrs away in the desert).  And, it was slightly more expensive than the Matrix.  So I'm guessing that while we did probably waste a day on the Matrix purchase, we did get a pretty decent deal.  This was 2006, our first new car - we weren't exactly savvy about emailing all the different dealerships back then, and certainly we were sleep deprived with a 4 month old baby.

forummm

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2623 on: July 13, 2015, 06:23:44 PM »
Glad you got a good deal on the car. And glad that you didn't have to waste a day getting another good deal the 2nd time around.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2624 on: July 14, 2015, 08:52:51 AM »
I've joined a local community group on FB, so I don't know this woman personally, however, her FB posts are quite telling.

Monday: She posts, "In Search Of infant clothing donations. I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Thursday: "For Sale $100 Chinchilla with cage and misc supplies. I'm 7 months pregnant and cannot chase him around any longer."

commenters tell her to take it to humane society.  She replies,"I spent a lot of money on this and don't make a lot, would like to get some of my expenses back. I've thought about a pet sitter until my baby is born, but that might cost a lot for 2 months?"

 

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2625 on: July 14, 2015, 09:02:18 AM »
"I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Words escape me.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2626 on: July 14, 2015, 09:17:05 AM »
"I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Words escape me.
Maybe nobody told her how that works....
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2627 on: July 14, 2015, 09:56:24 AM »
"I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Words escape me.

"How about this 36 pack of condoms?"

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2628 on: July 14, 2015, 10:00:03 AM »
That's so rude. She clearly meant it in the context of infant clothes.

Even people I know with tons of money like to get free baby clothes.


You don't know anything about her situation. Likely, she's made terrible choices in her life, but there is also the case that there is something else in the background you have no idea about.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2629 on: July 14, 2015, 10:06:06 AM »
That's so rude. She clearly meant it in the context of infant clothes.

Even people I know with tons of money like to get free baby clothes.


You don't know anything about her situation. Likely, she's made terrible choices in her life, but there is also the case that there is something else in the background you have no idea about.
I think everyone understands that she meant it in the context of infant clothing.  That's pretty obvious.

But a single mother of 4 who is also pregnant?  Yes, there is a chance that she's a widow, or a recent divorcee, or has been in a long-term relationship with someone who up and left.  But there is an equal chance that she's not a widow and just keeps having babies.  (My friend who has adopted from foster care can tell you that.)

A few of my younger son's friends have parents who have already divorced, and he's just turned 3.  I think it's incredibly sad to see that happen so early.  A friend of mine at school is single with 2 children.  (Well, technically she hasn't divorced the husband who ran off to another state 5 years ago).  Her 2nd child was the result of trying to get back together, but he took off while she was pregnant.

Still, these 3 or 4 women are outnumbered by the number of women who just have children with one or more men, without the ability to care for them.  (That doesn't stop me from donating to local charities that serve this demographic.  I can be empathetic and helpful while recognizing that often these situations are a result of poor choices.  The two are not mutually exclusive.)

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2630 on: July 14, 2015, 10:08:28 AM »
I can be empathetic and helpful while recognizing that often these situations are a result of poor choices.  The two are not mutually exclusive.
Couldn't have said it better.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2631 on: July 14, 2015, 10:25:37 AM »
I can be empathetic and helpful while recognizing that often these situations are a result of poor choices.  The two are not mutually exclusive.
Couldn't have said it better.

Agreed!

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2632 on: July 14, 2015, 10:28:13 AM »
This racism debate is wonderful, and I'm sure exactly why everyone reads this thread. Can we talk about gun control next?

/s
You'll need to head over to Overheard at Work to catch up on that debate.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2633 on: July 14, 2015, 10:29:11 AM »
This racism debate is wonderful, and I'm sure exactly why everyone reads this thread. Can we talk about gun control next?

/s
You'll need to head over to Overheard at Work to catch up on that debate.
That was a week ago. Let it go. ;)
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2634 on: July 14, 2015, 11:01:33 AM »
"I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Words escape me.

My first rude response was "obviously".



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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2635 on: July 14, 2015, 01:20:22 PM »
I've joined a local community group on FB, so I don't know this woman personally, however, her FB posts are quite telling.

Monday: She posts, "In Search Of infant clothing donations. I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Thursday: "For Sale $100 Chinchilla with cage and misc supplies. I'm 7 months pregnant and cannot chase him around any longer."

commenters tell her to take it to humane society.  She replies,"I spent a lot of money on this and don't make a lot, would like to get some of my expenses back. I've thought about a pet sitter until my baby is born, but that might cost a lot for 2 months?"

Update: I went back and trolled the page for more information. Not that it matters, but her name is Mandie with an /ie/ and she's a white cashier at Panera.

Her EXACT post read like this: "Hate to ask but does anyone have anything they dont need or want but cant sell? Having a hard time finding baby clothes for 0 to 3 months sleepers and onesies. Due in fall. Single mother. Had to cut my hours back due to complications plus have 4 other kids to support. Let me know please. Thank you."

Someone asks: Boy or Girl?

She replies (I'm copying and pasting here): Girl. I cant even pay my phone bill right now i cant spend a dollar on clothes at lots for tots have to find handmedowns or free things.

Next, someone gives her the number and website information to Seeds of Hope (a charitable center for women/children).

Her next reply:My fiance was cheating we separated n he isnt helping with much of anything. Ive asked a few times. Eventually i will get child support but didnt expect any of this to happen. Need as much help as i can get. Do i need to be a Y county resident because im in X county?

People give her more info like St. Vincent Depaul in her county.

Then she says:Ill have to call but it appears you have to take classes to earn points for help with baby gear. Going to call wic office think they offer car seats etc.

Someone says, The classes are to help you. Worth checking into.

Throughout all this I can't help but notice not one "Thank you" from this woman. Several people in the meantime have offered her little things like clothing, bassinet, and misc baby items...

Oh, and back in May she asked the group this: "Does anyone have the coupon thing for free moby just pay shipping i lost my codes....frustrated."

And this: "looking for a photographer for maternity pictures in X county."

Ug.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2636 on: July 14, 2015, 01:44:58 PM »
Oh, and back in May she asked the group this: "Does anyone have the coupon thing for free moby just pay shipping i lost my codes....frustrated."


Oh- those things are the biggest rip offs. The quality is shit and the shipping is insane.  (Also, not Moby's. They are off brand slings that most people find to be sized wrong.)

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2637 on: July 14, 2015, 05:23:43 PM »
Oh, and back in May she asked the group this: "Does anyone have the coupon thing for free moby just pay shipping i lost my codes....frustrated."


Oh- those things are the biggest rip offs. The quality is shit and the shipping is insane.  (Also, not Moby's. They are off brand slings that most people find to be sized wrong.)

Free Moby, no shipping required: http://www.mobygratis.com/

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2638 on: July 16, 2015, 01:10:41 PM »
A high school classmate of mine just posted a story the hometown newspaper wrote on his parents' purchase of a Tesla.  Granted, I understand the potential for the technology and admit their "green" potential, but the quote went something like:

"More people should consider the purchase of a Tesla.  They really ARE so good for the environment!"

Given that they start at $69,000 (which is more than I and most people make in a year) it just hit me as an uppity, clueless thing to say.  Just simplistic.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2639 on: July 16, 2015, 01:24:05 PM »
Oh, and back in May she asked the group this: "Does anyone have the coupon thing for free moby just pay shipping i lost my codes....frustrated."


Oh- those things are the biggest rip offs. The quality is shit and the shipping is insane.  (Also, not Moby's. They are off brand slings that most people find to be sized wrong.)

Free Moby, no shipping required: http://www.mobygratis.com/
:)

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2640 on: July 16, 2015, 06:38:40 PM »
"More people should consider the purchase of a Tesla.  They really ARE so good for the environment!"


About half of a car's lifetime energy use is in its manufacture. Buying a new car for environmental reasons is like screwing for virginity.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2641 on: July 16, 2015, 08:29:54 PM »
"More people should consider the purchase of a Tesla.  They really ARE so good for the environment!"


About half of a car's lifetime energy use is in its manufacture. Buying a new car for environmental reasons is like screwing for virginity.
That's a rather risky generalization, especially WRT a company that's building its next plant to run off 100% renewable power....
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2642 on: July 16, 2015, 10:50:39 PM »
"More people should consider the purchase of a Tesla.  They really ARE so good for the environment!"


About half of a car's lifetime energy use is in its manufacture. Buying a new car for environmental reasons is like screwing for virginity.
That's a rather risky generalization, especially WRT a company that's building its next plant to run off 100% renewable power....

Running off renewable power is green washing. Is the plant built of renewable steel?  Do the batteries use renewable nickel?  Do the trucks delivering the parts run off renewable diesel?  I bet the 50% number stands up well in an in depth analysis.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2643 on: July 17, 2015, 05:42:40 AM »
I don't think it's green-washing. By all accounts Elon Musk and his company care deeply about the environment. I agree that the electricity to run the factory is not the total impact of making a car, but I think it's hard to argue that he's running the plant off of solar only because it looks good.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2644 on: July 17, 2015, 06:30:05 AM »
I think the question is whether he would have built a new factory anyway or whether he just built a new one to have it run on solar. If he would have built it anyway but has converted the plans to make it greener, then great! If he's demolished a perfectly good one to build this one, then it is greenwashing at it's most reprehensible.

Just like buying a car: if you were going to buy a new one anyway, by all means choose an Eco model, but don't scrap your old car just to upgrade.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2645 on: July 17, 2015, 07:40:35 AM »
I think the question is whether he would have built a new factory anyway or whether he just built a new one to have it run on solar. If he would have built it anyway but has converted the plans to make it greener, then great! If he's demolished a perfectly good one to build this one, then it is greenwashing at it's most reprehensible.

Just like buying a car: if you were going to buy a new one anyway, by all means choose an Eco model, but don't scrap your old car just to upgrade.
It's new construction.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2646 on: July 17, 2015, 08:08:19 AM »
Running off renewable power is green washing.
Unsupported assertion, and odd given that the answers to your questions could refute it. All else being equal, renewable power reduces pollution compared to the alternatives. If you think they're doing it for appearances, feel free to present evidence for that.
Quote
Is the plant built of renewable steel?
Ha ha ha. Yes, they grow the steel on steel trees with organic fertilizers.
Quote
Do the batteries use renewable nickel?
They don't use nickel at all. They use recyclable lithium. There are some fairly low-impact ways of getting it (like evaporated seawater). The more of it that goes into service, the less it will have to be produced. Even optimistic scenarios for EV penetration in the transport sector show lithium production declining within years as recycling replaces production. The packs the automakers building now will generally have lifecycles measured in decades, after which >90% of the material will go back for remanufacturing.
Quote
Do the trucks delivering the parts run off renewable diesel?
Probably not yet. But the trend is toward lower-impact designs throughout the sector, especially with OEMs that are leading that transition. BMW just announced yesterday that it had built a 40-ton electric truck to shuttle parts from one plant to another.
Quote
I bet the 50% number stands up well in an in depth analysis.
Back to my initial point, which I thought was clear enough: without actually doing the analysis, we'd both be unwise to support specific figures for the industry or this specific plant. The historical average has likely changed, and will to continue to change, for known reasons.

I think the question is whether he would have built a new factory anyway or whether he just built a new one to have it run on solar. If he would have built it anyway but has converted the plans to make it greener, then great! If he's demolished a perfectly good one to build this one, then it is greenwashing at it's most reprehensible.
For their first facility, they took a derelict plant from a former joint venture between two other automakers and rebuilt it (and with much more efficient, low-impact processes than most). The next phase in growth required a unique approach that wouldn't work in any existing facilities - the scale alone precludes it.
Quote
Just like buying a car: if you were going to buy a new one anyway, by all means choose an Eco model, but don't scrap your old car just to upgrade.
Couldn't agree more.

I'm not trying to talk everyone here into buying a Tesla, nor am I about to do so myself, but a lot of the snark toward them seems to be based on fundamental misconceptions of the company's charter. Feel free to disagree with their strategy or methods, but it's an established fact that profiting from high-end luxury EVs is a means to an end, with the end being mass production of low-impact, affordable cars to replace today's gas engines. I do strongly support EV adoption, and they've done a lot to make other car manufacturers take the idea seriously, which is good for all of us in the long run.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2647 on: July 17, 2015, 09:57:40 AM »
I'm not trying to talk everyone here into buying a Tesla, nor am I about to do so myself, but a lot of the snark toward them seems to be based on fundamental misconceptions of the company's charter. Feel free to disagree with their strategy or methods, but it's an established fact that profiting from high-end luxury EVs is a means to an end, with the end being mass production of low-impact, affordable cars to replace today's gas engines. I do strongly support EV adoption, and they've done a lot to make other car manufacturers take the idea seriously, which is good for all of us in the long run.

Completely agree. It's a means to an end.

It's the $100k+ Mercedes S-Classes that start with all the new technology and then eventually it trickles all the way down to even the low end C-class models.


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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2648 on: July 17, 2015, 10:13:03 AM »
I might be wandering into paranoid conspiracy nut territory here but ....

I wonder why it took a non-car maker to start taking electric cars seriously?
The Tesla is a lotus chassis with some standard Panasonic 18650 laptop cells and a couple of brushless DC motors - not exactly beyond the engineering competence of Volkswagon or Toyota.

Electric cars potentially last a long time, there are few servicing costs (brakes last forever, no oil changes, no timing belt ... ) so no profit for dealer service centers and no incentive to trade your 3year old car to a new model once the loan runs out.





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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2649 on: July 17, 2015, 10:18:25 AM »
Check out the documentary about the GM EV-1, Who Killed the Electric Car?. The filmmaker comes to the same conclusions you do.