Author Topic: Overheard on Facebook  (Read 2958567 times)

vivophoenix

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2550 on: July 08, 2015, 09:41:15 AM »
oh boy. has this really turned into a thread in which we pat each other on the back for being not racist, but we point out other people(regions, states, etc) who are,  with fun stories. and then offer our made up theories for why that is so?

almost zero people going back and forth actually understand what racism is, or its historical influence,  based on these comments.
 there is way more to racism then talking shit about neighbors, co workers and acquaintances, this thread is now just a huge circle jerk.
If you and only you on this thread knows what racism is, please enlighten us then, instead of ranting about how ignorant everyone else is.

 i said zero going back and forth. not sero in this thread.

sure ill tell you:  its years of institutionally making sure that one ethnic group doesn't get ahead and always has less then the reigning group. so to be honest most brown people don't give  damn what you think about us, or even say. but we care when you make sure  that we have less.

and before someone jumps up and claims they dont do that. perhaps you should research redlining, and other systematic slights

I think most of us discuss what people say and the jokes they tell, because it can be a marker for whether or not someone is prejudiced. I.e. if you tell a racist joke, it's very, very unlikely that you don't harbor a deep seated view of certain people as lesser. And it's what's in the hearts of a large group of people that led to the institutional racism of which you speak. Just because people haven't talked about the issue in terms that you recognize doesn't mean we aren't aware of the institutional issues.

I just would hate for you to get a sense that we are all idiots just based on what has been said here. You can certainly think whatever you like, but I don't think it's fair to paint everyone with such a broad brush based on one isolated conversation on here about what areas of the country might have more racists per capita and why, based on our experiences.

i see your point, however i disagree.using the racist joke indicator isnt good enough, not really to change anything.


 i do recognize the terms people are using, but i find often these terms are used to minimize a problem than actually talk about.

also shouldn't we attempt to view  racism from the eyes of the victims? not a series of 'thank god my husband escaped being a racist"  and ' this one time at band camp, these other white people said something racists to me' remarks?

im not painting everyone. im remarking to those who have said insensitive , ignorant things .


vivophoenix

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2551 on: July 08, 2015, 09:42:05 AM »
oh boy. has this really turned into a thread in which we pat each other on the back for being not racist, but we point out other people(regions, states, etc) who are,  with fun stories. and then offer our made up theories for why that is so?

almost zero people going back and forth actually understand what racism is, or its historical influence,  based on these comments.
 there is way more to racism then talking shit about neighbors, co workers and acquaintances, this thread is now just a huge circle jerk.

lol - you have to elaborate more if you are going to shit on everything everyone said and then offer up some weak definition...



 i said zero going back and forth. not sero in this thread.

sure ill tell you:  its years of institutionally making sure that one ethnic group doesn't get ahead and always has less then the reigning group. so to be honest most brown people don't give  damn what you think about us, or even say. but we care when you make sure  that we have less.

and before someone jumps up and claims they dont do that. perhaps you should research redlining, and other systematic slights


I don't even understand what point you are trying to say or make?

Are you claiming to have a superior understanding of racism just because our stories fall short of public lynchings? If so, I saw Obama speak in a park where they used to have KKK rallies. How many racism points do I win for that one?

and you i believe are just being flippantly obtuse for the hell of it

Beaker

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2552 on: July 08, 2015, 09:57:28 AM »
This racism debate is wonderful, and I'm sure exactly why everyone reads this thread. Can we talk about gun control next?

/s

Chris22

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2553 on: July 08, 2015, 09:57:43 AM »
I think most of us discuss what people say and the jokes they tell, because it can be a marker for whether or not someone is prejudiced. I.e. if you tell a racist joke, it's very, very unlikely that you don't harbor a deep seated view of certain people as lesser.

100% disagree.  I'll tell racist jokes all day long (what's black and doesn't work??*) because I find stereotypes to be funny.  But when it comes to things that actually matter, such as hiring people, giving them business, etc, I'm 100% colorblind.  I've hired and worked with/for/above black, white, brown, yellow, Jewish, female, etc.  Never had a problem with anyone, I think all of them would agree that I was 100% fair in all my dealings.  This is also why most people consider racism amongst the upper class in New England to be much worse than racism in the deep south.  If some poor white trash redneck calls a black man a n*****, what does that really do?  The redneck isn't any better off than the black man and holds pretty much zero power over him.  But if a wealthy northerner (BTW, I'm from New England) gives lip service to policital correctness and would never dream of using a racial slur, all while avoiding doing business with minorities, etc, THAT is where the real harm comes from.


*decaf coffee you racist ;)
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justajane

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2554 on: July 08, 2015, 10:13:29 AM »
This racism debate is wonderful, and I'm sure exactly why everyone reads this thread. Can we talk about gun control next?

/s

I agree. Let's move on to more flippant things. In other words, what this thread is meant for.

I will say that this underscores why I almost never talk about these things in the first place. Too bad, though -- not that discussion alone can solve our problems, but I'm not sure how trying to make commenters feel stupid (not you Beaker, I'm talking about vivaphoenix), especially when people are just sharing their experiences, helps matters either. 

justajane

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2555 on: July 08, 2015, 10:15:35 AM »
Has anybody mentioned an Irish Goodbye? I just learned that one.

A SAHD I know "checks in" on Facebook almost every day at a coffee shop or restaurant with his two kids. Photos of his coffee drink or food is often included. This is in between checking a pools, children's museums, etc. He must spend a fortune on food and entertainment for them during the day. As far as I know he's almost never with his wife - she must be putting in extra hours to pay for all this!

Minus the photos, I think that was my husband for a few years there!

Yeah, as a SAHM myself, I really get it, but I'm just overwhelmed by the volume of visits he posts on Facebook. It must really add up financially. I think the pools, museums, etc. are much more valuable than the food. I've tried to pack sandwiches and stuff to eliminate the temptation to eat out.

vivophoenix

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2556 on: July 08, 2015, 10:16:07 AM »
This racism debate is wonderful, and I'm sure exactly why everyone reads this thread. Can we talk about gun control next?

/s

I agree. Let's move on to more flippant things. In other words, what this thread is meant for.

I will say that this underscores why I almost never talk about these things in the first place. Too bad, though -- not that discussion alone can solve our problems, but I'm not sure how trying to make commenters feel stupid (not you Beaker, I'm talking about vivaphoenix), especially when people are just sharing their experiences, helps matters either.

youre right!

lets move onto more positive talk:  making fun of our friends, coworkers and family members behind their backs after they share  their experiences.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2557 on: July 08, 2015, 10:48:24 AM »
I feel fairly safe making a really sweeping generalization that racism is absolutely thriving in all rural areas of this country, regardless of region. The level of racism then recedes, roughly in correlation with increasing density of population, but is still present.
That is an absolutely pathetic statement with nothing to support it.

I agree it's definitely pathetic. And I'm pretty sure it's also true. Note that I didn't say that I think every individual in rural areas is racist, or that all people in cities aren't. I've lived rural areas, small cities, and large cities, in three different regions of the country (though not the South) and I think the country is making slow but steady progress. But I still think racism is thriving.

I was actually sort of defending the South, which gets a terrible rep. I think my home region (Midwest) is also very racist, but it is kept more on the down-low there because of socio-cultural expectations...Midwestern 'nice' and so on. My husband's from the West, and his impression is that it's thriving there, as well.

But if you have stats to make me less cynical, I'd be very happy to see them. I do tend to assume the worst when it comes to humanity LOL.

I wonder sometimes too.  I grew up in a rural area, and my area was all white.  Then I moved to the bigger town (pop 6000), and the school had one black kid and two Asians.  I never really considered the town terribly racist, but then, there weren't really other races.

Then I went back after living in bigger cities like Pittsburgh and DC.  And wow, yeah, the town really is racist, including many of my family members.  Who thought it was okay to use the "N" word, because they weren't referring to ALL black people just the bad ones.  WTF??

Of course now most of my interactions are via facebook, and many of my small town friends are constantly posting racist things - although now it's the "damn Mexicans".  And the thing is, there STILL aren't many (if any) Latinos in my home town (though we opened a Walmart, and there are actually black people!)  So, the only experience these people have with Latinos and their "taking our jobs" and "living on welfare" are what they hear on Fox News.  I posted something in response to our local paper - which had a racist photo/ comment about the illegals lining up to get drivers' licenses.  They showed a line at the DMV with a lot of Latinos.  One of my small town friends says "well it's true".  Newsflash, this CALIFORNIA.  We don't have a white majority - a good 45% of the people in this town are "brown" and they aren't illegal, they are American!!

Anyway, just another observation.

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2558 on: July 08, 2015, 11:11:31 AM »

also shouldn't we attempt to view  racism from the eyes of the victims? not a series of 'thank god my husband escaped being a racist"  and ' this one time at band camp, these other white people said something racists to me' remarks?

im not painting everyone. im remarking to those who have said insensitive , ignorant things .

I was the victim in one of my stories. Did you see it from my eyes?


and you i believe are just being flippantly obtuse for the hell of it

No, not at all. I thought it was an amazing thing. First time I saw a President in real life which was really cool itself. He stood in the park where there used to be KKK rallies and gave a re-election speech.

In the 90's, 20/20 specifically did a special on the town and how they openly did not want black residents.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 11:14:21 AM by HairyUpperLip »

justajane

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2559 on: July 08, 2015, 11:15:20 AM »
On a similar note my coworker spent about $3.5k to fix the transmission in his 16 year old son's car a few months ago. I'm sitting here thinking a 16 year old shouldn't be driving a car worth that much. Then apparently the engine blew to the tune of another $6k! So in 6 months he's spent $9.5k to fix a 16 year old male's car. But they "know what to expect with it and if they bought a cheap $12k car it could break too".

Ummm...at the risk of sounding like I want younguns to get off my lawn, my first car was $1k and lasted through my older sister, me, and was then sold to a friend who could have kept it for years if he had listened when we told him the engine burned oil so keep an eye on it. Even if he had bought $1k cars and they only lasted a month each he'd still be ahead.

Another part of the problem with buying the kid a 'new' car; "he's 6'4" and needs a bigger vehicle". My dad is 6'4" and his cars have included an Escort, Metro, Prius, and Leaf. He was seriously considering an EV Smart instead of the Leaf but got mad at the dealership. This kid is driving an Escape so his 16 year old body doesn't have to bend down to get into a car

Oh, and this is the same guy who was complaining that our company mandates a 7% contribution into the retirement account....with a matching NINE PERCENT from them. But 7% is too much, "why save for tomorrow if you can't live today?"
Same guy:
"The ice maker in our fridge doesn't work anymore. If it's going to cost $200 to fix it we're just going to buy a new fridge"

I made a joke about how mine doesn't work either (no waterlines to the fridge in our house) but he didn't think it was funny.

But seriously, even if you buy ice (instead of ice cube trays like we did) how long would it take for a new fridge to cost less than what you paid for ice? Probably longer than the new fridge would last

You'd be surprised how heated a discussion on the necessity/luxury of ice makers can be! Whole threads on here have been devoted to it, and you'll find those for whom you would have to pry their ice makers from their cold dead hands and those like me who intentionally disabled their ice maker to make room for more frozen stuff. With a little planning and a few ice trays, we rarely need to buy actual ice, which BTW has really gone up in price in the last decade. I'm guessing it's fuel cost associated?

I have to admit that sometimes I fall prey to the "if a repair costs X amount I'm buying a new one" logic. It's probably overestimating the cost of a repair, not being as DIY as I should, and underestimating the cost of buying new. I like MMM's focus on DIY and the wonders of youtube, because it really is true that you can find videos teaching you how to repair most anything. And learning how to repair a garbage disposal or washer or fridge will reap significant savings over the years.

infogoon

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2560 on: July 08, 2015, 02:59:14 PM »
Are you claiming to have a superior understanding of racism just because our stories fall short of public lynchings? If so, I saw Obama speak in a park where they used to have KKK rallies. How many racism points do I win for that one?

Are racism points tracked on the back of one of these race cards I've been hearing about?

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2561 on: July 08, 2015, 08:14:31 PM »
Are you claiming to have a superior understanding of racism just because our stories fall short of public lynchings? If so, I saw Obama speak in a park where they used to have KKK rallies. How many racism points do I win for that one?

Are racism points tracked on the back of one of these race cards I've been hearing about?

Yes, tracked on the back like RBI's or PPG. Trading card style.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2562 on: July 08, 2015, 09:50:09 PM »
This racism debate is wonderful, and I'm sure exactly why everyone reads this thread. Can we talk about gun control next?

/s

No worries, that's already going on over in the Overheard at Work thread.
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cerebus

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2563 on: July 09, 2015, 05:01:05 AM »
Has anybody mentioned an Irish Goodbye? I just learned that one.

A SAHD I know "checks in" on Facebook almost every day at a coffee shop or restaurant with his two kids. Photos of his coffee drink or food is often included. This is in between checking a pools, children's museums, etc. He must spend a fortune on food and entertainment for them during the day. As far as I know he's almost never with his wife - she must be putting in extra hours to pay for all this!

Minus the photos, I think that was my husband for a few years there!

Yeah, as a SAHM myself, I really get it, but I'm just overwhelmed by the volume of visits he posts on Facebook. It must really add up financially. I think the pools, museums, etc. are much more valuable than the food. I've tried to pack sandwiches and stuff to eliminate the temptation to eat out.

My wife is a SAHM, and she's basically the only person she knows in her groups who doesn't spend her days in coffee shops. The fact that we don't have a maid means that she actually just has no time for going out, but it's still a big contrast to her friends.

But around here there's actually nowhere one can go that doesn't cost money (except the beach in good weather but it's now winter), so if the kids are home for the holidays, they can take maybe 1-2 days of being indoors and after that you'd better hope they love the library. Right now she's in a wine estate which is one of the cheaper options for letting the kids get out. It's that or see the house get systematically destroyed every day.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2564 on: July 09, 2015, 10:51:10 AM »
This racism debate is wonderful, and I'm sure exactly why everyone reads this thread. Can we talk about gun control next?

/s

I agree. Let's move on to more flippant things. In other words, what this thread is meant for.

I will say that this underscores why I almost never talk about these things in the first place. Too bad, though -- not that discussion alone can solve our problems, but I'm not sure how trying to make commenters feel stupid (not you Beaker, I'm talking about vivaphoenix), especially when people are just sharing their experiences, helps matters either.

youre right!

lets move onto more positive talk:  making fun of our friends, coworkers and family members behind their backs after they share  their experiences.

Isn't making fun of another group of people just because they are different effectively racism? 

Why is it okay to make fun of someone because their financial decisions are different but it is not okay to make fun of someone because of their genetic, geographic, or economic background?

Maybe we are all a bunch of bigoted racists deep down.

Chris22

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2565 on: July 09, 2015, 11:18:31 AM »
This racism debate is wonderful, and I'm sure exactly why everyone reads this thread. Can we talk about gun control next?

/s

I agree. Let's move on to more flippant things. In other words, what this thread is meant for.

I will say that this underscores why I almost never talk about these things in the first place. Too bad, though -- not that discussion alone can solve our problems, but I'm not sure how trying to make commenters feel stupid (not you Beaker, I'm talking about vivaphoenix), especially when people are just sharing their experiences, helps matters either.

youre right!

lets move onto more positive talk:  making fun of our friends, coworkers and family members behind their backs after they share  their experiences.

Isn't making fun of another group of people just because they are different effectively racism? 

Why is it okay to make fun of someone because their financial decisions are different but it is not okay to make fun of someone because of their genetic, geographic, or economic background?

Maybe we are all a bunch of bigoted racists deep down.

Uh, difference between choices and genetic traits??????
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2566 on: July 09, 2015, 11:43:16 AM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
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mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2567 on: July 09, 2015, 11:53:10 AM »
Has anybody mentioned an Irish Goodbye? I just learned that one.

A SAHD I know "checks in" on Facebook almost every day at a coffee shop or restaurant with his two kids. Photos of his coffee drink or food is often included. This is in between checking a pools, children's museums, etc. He must spend a fortune on food and entertainment for them during the day. As far as I know he's almost never with his wife - she must be putting in extra hours to pay for all this!

Minus the photos, I think that was my husband for a few years there!

Yeah, as a SAHM myself, I really get it, but I'm just overwhelmed by the volume of visits he posts on Facebook. It must really add up financially. I think the pools, museums, etc. are much more valuable than the food. I've tried to pack sandwiches and stuff to eliminate the temptation to eat out.

My wife is a SAHM, and she's basically the only person she knows in her groups who doesn't spend her days in coffee shops. The fact that we don't have a maid means that she actually just has no time for going out, but it's still a big contrast to her friends.

But around here there's actually nowhere one can go that doesn't cost money (except the beach in good weather but it's now winter), so if the kids are home for the holidays, they can take maybe 1-2 days of being indoors and after that you'd better hope they love the library. Right now she's in a wine estate which is one of the cheaper options for letting the kids get out. It's that or see the house get systematically destroyed every day.
Yes, I've noticed that tendency in my SAHM friends.  Or the teachers with summers off.  The FB posts are crazy.  They also do things like the library (free) and parks (free).  But often it's things like these play gyms ($8-10 per kid) and then lunch out (easily $20 for you and the kid, $15 if you are trying to save money).  Even at once a week, that's a lot.

I admit I've been freaking out a little on my spouse.  My kid is in 1/2 day summer camp the last two weeks.  Last week they ate out 3 or 4 times because it's "special".  This week they took the lunch I packed, but today they are going out "but it's only once this week!"  It's still $20 dude.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2568 on: July 09, 2015, 11:56:54 AM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price. 

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2569 on: July 09, 2015, 12:29:44 PM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).

Heh, yeah, you need to know the right person to bring with you.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2570 on: July 09, 2015, 05:08:28 PM »
Heh, yeah, you need to know the right person to bring with you.
Maybe I'm weird, but I would get a kick out of tagging along with a fellow Mustachian when they are making big purchases. Or have them keep me level-headed when I'm the one doing the buying. It would be a great learning experience for real estate.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2571 on: July 09, 2015, 05:43:36 PM »
It's even more fun to tag along and just be the Silent Observer. Firm look on your face, don't say anything the whole time.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2572 on: July 09, 2015, 05:47:00 PM »
It's even more fun to tag along and just be the Silent Observer. Firm look on your face, don't say anything the whole time.

Once in a while, your friend says "I don't know about that, let me ask my manager," you whisper back and forth, then "sorry, can't do it"

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2573 on: July 09, 2015, 05:56:32 PM »
It's even more fun to tag along and just be the Silent Observer. Firm look on your face, don't say anything the whole time.

Once in a while, your friend says "I don't know about that, let me ask my manager," you whisper back and forth, then "sorry, can't do it"

Hahahahahaha!

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2574 on: July 09, 2015, 07:44:38 PM »
"I'm sorry, the manager says that the highest we can do for the undercoating is -$200. Normally I'd ask for $100 off the price, but with this guy on my balls, the best I can offer is a $200 fee."

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2575 on: July 09, 2015, 11:27:33 PM »
"I'm sorry, the manager says that the highest we can do for the undercoating is -$200. Normally I'd ask for $100 off the price, but with this guy on my balls, the best I can offer is a $200 fee."

If they start talking to you directly, tell them you have to call corporate and step out.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2576 on: July 10, 2015, 06:10:14 AM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Did they end up paying for your lunch?
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2577 on: July 10, 2015, 04:35:01 PM »
Waaaay back I went with my SIL to buy a car.  At one point she said "too high" and he opened a drawer in his desk, looked in, and lowered the price.

We joked about his manager in the drawer for years.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2578 on: July 11, 2015, 02:07:54 AM »
Heh, yeah, you need to know the right person to bring with you.
Maybe I'm weird, but I would get a kick out of tagging along with a fellow Mustachian when they are making big purchases. Or have them keep me level-headed when I'm the one doing the buying. It would be a great learning experience for real estate.

I too would love to do this but for things I know a lot about which is, um, clothes. But if anyone needs a tough negotiator while vintage/second hand clothes shopping, I'm there!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 02:19:49 AM by shelivesthedream »

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2579 on: July 11, 2015, 02:40:09 AM »
Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Yay! :)

Basic negotation theory: The party that has the option to say no usually wins the deal in a win-lose-situation.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2580 on: July 11, 2015, 06:50:20 AM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Never negotiate in a dealership. You wasted your whole day. And probably paid more than you could have gotten elsewhere. Just send emails through local dealer contact forms on their websites asking what their out-the-door price is on the exact model and options you want. Tell them you are asking dealers for their best prices. Let them compete against each other while you go about your life. Ignore their responses to "come on in". Just get the best number. If you like the best one, go with it.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2581 on: July 12, 2015, 11:58:58 PM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Never negotiate in a dealership. You wasted your whole day. And probably paid more than you could have gotten elsewhere. Just send emails through local dealer contact forms on their websites asking what their out-the-door price is on the exact model and options you want. Tell them you are asking dealers for their best prices. Let them compete against each other while you go about your life. Ignore their responses to "come on in". Just get the best number. If you like the best one, go with it.

Does this work differently for used cars? I've never bought a car from a dealership, I just bought my mom's old car about 5 years ago.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2582 on: July 13, 2015, 08:57:12 AM »
nope. Just email. If they supply a good price, great. if too high or fuzzy answer, walk.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2583 on: July 13, 2015, 10:29:31 AM »
For a used car you can probably get a much better deal on craigslist.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2584 on: July 13, 2015, 11:19:41 AM »
Heh, yeah, you need to know the right person to bring with you.
Maybe I'm weird, but I would get a kick out of tagging along with a fellow Mustachian when they are making big purchases. Or have them keep me level-headed when I'm the one doing the buying. It would be a great learning experience for real estate.

When I told the story about my wife carpet-bombing my negotiation, one of my friends offered to go with me next time to pose as my gay lover to help with the purchase. He's a shrewd negotiator (my age, and owns about 30 rentals plus a property management business with ~150 clients). I totally would have taken him up on the offer, but we're still in the same car, and plan to be for at least a couple more years.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2585 on: July 13, 2015, 11:23:56 AM »
For a used car you can probably get a much better deal on craigslist.

Personally, I've never had any luck finding a specific car on craigslist. I've never lived by a major population center, either, so that probably doesn't help.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2586 on: July 13, 2015, 12:26:46 PM »
If you're a savvy shopper, flying to one is worth it.
I got my 2006 Audi A4 with all the options I wanted for $2500 less than my locality by flying to the east coast.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2587 on: July 13, 2015, 12:52:08 PM »
If you're a savvy shopper, flying to one is worth it.
I got my 2006 Audi A4 with all the options I wanted for $2500 less than my locality by flying to the east coast.
I've thought of doing this but mostly to get out of areas where they salt in the winter for I've control. I think rust is going to be what ends up being the deciding factor when i get a "new" car.  Oh and of course would only consider if savings pays for flight, gas, lodging and time to drive back.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2588 on: July 13, 2015, 01:34:58 PM »
If you're a savvy shopper, flying to one is worth it.
I got my 2006 Audi A4 with all the options I wanted for $2500 less than my locality by flying to the east coast.

I've considered traveling several states for a deal before, but I was always too worried that there would be some undisclosed issue upon arrival, leaving me with lots of expenses and no deal. With the price range of cars that I'm interested in, it makes things even more difficult when you have to figure in travel costs.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2589 on: July 13, 2015, 02:44:39 PM »
If you're a savvy shopper, flying to one is worth it.
I got my 2006 Audi A4 with all the options I wanted for $2500 less than my locality by flying to the east coast.

I've considered traveling several states for a deal before, but I was always too worried that there would be some undisclosed issue upon arrival, leaving me with lots of expenses and no deal. With the price range of cars that I'm interested in, it makes things even more difficult when you have to figure in travel costs.

Do the paperwork remotely and have them ship it to you.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2590 on: July 13, 2015, 02:53:17 PM »
Then there was a slew of posts saying she should be sure to take a man with her when she went to buy a new car.

Sadly, this is statistically likely to make a difference. My personal experience is that women are treated like idiots at the car yard. Sad but still true.

A good friend of ours went down to buy a car.  She looked at several with the salesman and decided to buy one.  The salesman told her to come back with her husband to close the deal.  This was in North Carolina.  She, being originally from California, let the salesman have both barrels.  She bought the car without her husband being there.

If she really wanted to make a point she should have bought a car from a different dealer after telling the salesman's manager why he lost the sale... As a side note, it's usually better to go with another person when buying a car to help keep yourself from making impulsive decisions.

LOL, I've promised my wife that I will never take her with me to buy another car. I did it once, and she took the bait of "This car already has a buyer at another dealership at full-price, we are just getting ready to ship it, but we can sell it to you for the full price instead." But that was fine, the price was already good, which is why we went to the dealership in the first place, it just gave me no negotiating leverage because she was scared to death of "losing" it. Then she got all worked up when the guy who comes in to sell the extended warranties gave his stupid spiel and she made me get it. I was so pissed by the time we got out of there, I could hardly breathe. She is gullible and impulsive as hell when it comes to big purchases like houses/cars, she doesn't understand the value of being willing to walk away, and she absolutely cannot stick to a predetermined game plan. Luckily, she agrees with me on all of these points, and she has told me that she never wants to shop for another car because she knows she'll makes bad decisions under stress (and dealers do their damnedest to make you feel stressed).
That's a total bummer.

First new car we bought (old one died) was a Toyota Matrix.  We didn't actually PLAN on buying a car that day, but did a little research before going.  We were in a town about 35 miles from home.

After test driving and shopping, we left for lunch.  They promised to buy our lunch if we came back.  On the lunch break, we found a computer (no smart phones back then) at a Circuit City and went on to consumer reports and got a report on what the car should cost.

We went back.  Round and round of what they were offering, and we said "too high".  "Well, let me try again."  And he came back with a HIGHER number.

Anyway, at 4 pm (we'd been there since 8 or 9 am, with our 4 month old baby), I said "well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to waste your time anymore.  I'm not willing to pay more than X amount.  I'm tired, my baby is tired, and we've been here all day.  Bye."

Um, we got the car at that price.

Never negotiate in a dealership. You wasted your whole day. And probably paid more than you could have gotten elsewhere. Just send emails through local dealer contact forms on their websites asking what their out-the-door price is on the exact model and options you want. Tell them you are asking dealers for their best prices. Let them compete against each other while you go about your life. Ignore their responses to "come on in". Just get the best number. If you like the best one, go with it.

So, we actually did what you suggest for the next car.

From my research through Consumer Reports (and other sources), it seems like we got the same deal.  We went home that day with this car, and realized that when we made the offer, the car had a few extras on it that we hadn't considered (CR says "this is the least you could expect to get the car for given this type and these extras"), but we were starting with an artificially low number.  Let's just say that the full day, they kept congratulating new owners and taking pictures and giving balloons.  For us?  They literally tossed the keys at us and said "see you later".  The first guy we met with in the lot  (who soon after handed us off to his boss) chased us down as we were leaving to tell us that we must have gotten a good deal because his boss was pissed.  Maybe he was trying to make us feel better? 

But we bought a Civic 3 years later by emailing several dealerships as far as 5 hours away, and the local dealership agreed to match the lowest price (which was 5 hrs away in the desert).  And, it was slightly more expensive than the Matrix.  So I'm guessing that while we did probably waste a day on the Matrix purchase, we did get a pretty decent deal.  This was 2006, our first new car - we weren't exactly savvy about emailing all the different dealerships back then, and certainly we were sleep deprived with a 4 month old baby.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2591 on: July 13, 2015, 06:23:44 PM »
Glad you got a good deal on the car. And glad that you didn't have to waste a day getting another good deal the 2nd time around.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2592 on: July 14, 2015, 08:52:51 AM »
I've joined a local community group on FB, so I don't know this woman personally, however, her FB posts are quite telling.

Monday: She posts, "In Search Of infant clothing donations. I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Thursday: "For Sale $100 Chinchilla with cage and misc supplies. I'm 7 months pregnant and cannot chase him around any longer."

commenters tell her to take it to humane society.  She replies,"I spent a lot of money on this and don't make a lot, would like to get some of my expenses back. I've thought about a pet sitter until my baby is born, but that might cost a lot for 2 months?"

 

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2593 on: July 14, 2015, 09:02:18 AM »
"I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Words escape me.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2594 on: July 14, 2015, 09:17:05 AM »
"I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Words escape me.
Maybe nobody told her how that works....
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2595 on: July 14, 2015, 09:56:24 AM »
"I am a single mother of four and pregnant. I'll take anything anyone has to give."

Words escape me.

"How about this 36 pack of condoms?"

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2596 on: July 14, 2015, 10:00:03 AM »
That's so rude. She clearly meant it in the context of infant clothes.

Even people I know with tons of money like to get free baby clothes.


You don't know anything about her situation. Likely, she's made terrible choices in her life, but there is also the case that there is something else in the background you have no idea about.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2597 on: July 14, 2015, 10:06:06 AM »
That's so rude. She clearly meant it in the context of infant clothes.

Even people I know with tons of money like to get free baby clothes.


You don't know anything about her situation. Likely, she's made terrible choices in her life, but there is also the case that there is something else in the background you have no idea about.
I think everyone understands that she meant it in the context of infant clothing.  That's pretty obvious.

But a single mother of 4 who is also pregnant?  Yes, there is a chance that she's a widow, or a recent divorcee, or has been in a long-term relationship with someone who up and left.  But there is an equal chance that she's not a widow and just keeps having babies.  (My friend who has adopted from foster care can tell you that.)

A few of my younger son's friends have parents who have already divorced, and he's just turned 3.  I think it's incredibly sad to see that happen so early.  A friend of mine at school is single with 2 children.  (Well, technically she hasn't divorced the husband who ran off to another state 5 years ago).  Her 2nd child was the result of trying to get back together, but he took off while she was pregnant.

Still, these 3 or 4 women are outnumbered by the number of women who just have children with one or more men, without the ability to care for them.  (That doesn't stop me from donating to local charities that serve this demographic.  I can be empathetic and helpful while recognizing that often these situations are a result of poor choices.  The two are not mutually exclusive.)

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2598 on: July 14, 2015, 10:08:28 AM »
I can be empathetic and helpful while recognizing that often these situations are a result of poor choices.  The two are not mutually exclusive.
Couldn't have said it better.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #2599 on: July 14, 2015, 10:25:37 AM »
I can be empathetic and helpful while recognizing that often these situations are a result of poor choices.  The two are not mutually exclusive.
Couldn't have said it better.

Agreed!