Author Topic: Overheard on Facebook  (Read 2892689 times)

Joggernot

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1900 on: March 25, 2015, 07:31:30 PM »
Do I need to elaborate on this?  Facebook today...

"ISO somewhere in the area that sells puppy birthday cakes. Need to get one tomorrow."

eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1901 on: March 26, 2015, 06:57:10 AM »
Do I need to elaborate on this?  Facebook today...

"ISO somewhere in the area that sells puppy birthday cakes. Need to get one tomorrow."

Stick a candle in a can of dog food. Or the litter box for that matter. Dog would love either one.
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Pooperman

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1902 on: March 26, 2015, 07:26:06 AM »
Do I need to elaborate on this?  Facebook today...

"ISO somewhere in the area that sells puppy birthday cakes. Need to get one tomorrow."

Stick a candle in a can of dog food. Or the litter box for that matter. Dog would love either one.

Joggernot - say you can provide a cake and do exactly this :D. I see a side business.

Joggernot

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1903 on: March 26, 2015, 10:21:44 AM »
If it hadn't been needed by tomorrow, I would have mixed up a box cake, drawn a dog on it, and charged $40 for the rush job.  Yep, could be a good side business, although the candle in the cat box probably would have been appreciated by the dog more than the cake...:)

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1904 on: March 26, 2015, 11:17:20 AM »
I work next door to a dog bakery. No human food sold, just upscale dog treats, handmade in house. They have been there for 10 years, so not a start up that is going to fail.

1 pound of undecorated biscuits is $10.99-$12.99
Decorated biscuits (they look like fancy cookies) are about $3 each!

Cookie78

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1905 on: March 26, 2015, 11:33:16 AM »
I work next door to a dog bakery. No human food sold, just upscale dog treats, handmade in house. They have been there for 10 years, so not a start up that is going to fail.

1 pound of undecorated biscuits is $10.99-$12.99
Decorated biscuits (they look like fancy cookies) are about $3 each!

I made dog treats at home once for super cheap, but I can't even imagine spending $3 per treat!

RFAAOATB

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1906 on: March 26, 2015, 12:02:30 PM »
I work next door to a dog bakery. No human food sold, just upscale dog treats, handmade in house. They have been there for 10 years, so not a start up that is going to fail.

1 pound of undecorated biscuits is $10.99-$12.99
Decorated biscuits (they look like fancy cookies) are about $3 each!

A good dog is a better investment than a poor person.  That's the only conclusion I can see where luxury dog biscuits cost $3 and subsidized meals for the needy cost $1.59.

Unfortunately we have too many homeless dogs and homeless people.  At least the people get no kill shelters.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1907 on: March 26, 2015, 01:22:41 PM »
I work next door to a dog bakery. No human food sold, just upscale dog treats, handmade in house. They have been there for 10 years, so not a start up that is going to fail.

1 pound of undecorated biscuits is $10.99-$12.99
Decorated biscuits (they look like fancy cookies) are about $3 each!

I made dog treats at home once for super cheap, but I can't even imagine spending $3 per treat!

me too, it was awesome! every time I had to cut fat off chicken but lost a little meat with it, I put it in the freezer. so I had this bag of frozen chicken fat and scraps. I threw it in the stand mixer with some old chopped butternut squash I also had in the freezer, plus flour and eggs to hold it together. then I put little scoops of it in mini muffin tins and baked it. it was awesome, a fun project for someone who likes to bake, my dog of course loved it as did all the dogs at our running club, and I got to feel hilariously hipster and awesome about my dog eating these gourmet treats made with locally grown squash. LOL.

87tweetybirds

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1908 on: March 26, 2015, 09:18:49 PM »
Saw a good anti-antimustachian one on Facebook today. Someone was talking about the deals they got at various Boxing Day sales. One of the replies was:

"I save a ton of money every year on Boxing Day.  Haven't been in a store on Boxing Day in decades."

Love this! I saved a fortune this year's Black Friday, of course I spent it by sleeping in, and then when I was up I ate leftovers and read a book.

(This ones a bit old, but still relevant) I not only save, I earn time and a half by working Black Friday. Last year the company decided to make blackfriday holiday pay, and since I'd rather be shot than be in a store that day, it's worked well for me

johnny847

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1909 on: March 26, 2015, 11:55:00 PM »
Saw a good anti-antimustachian one on Facebook today. Someone was talking about the deals they got at various Boxing Day sales. One of the replies was:

"I save a ton of money every year on Boxing Day.  Haven't been in a store on Boxing Day in decades."

Love this! I saved a fortune this year's Black Friday, of course I spent it by sleeping in, and then when I was up I ate leftovers and read a book.

(This ones a bit old, but still relevant) I not only save, I earn time and a half by working Black Friday. Last year the company decided to make blackfriday holiday pay, and since I'd rather be shot than be in a store that day, it's worked well for me

Haha well I did literally save money on Black Friday by buying a $300 gift card at Target for $270, and $11.70 in cash back on my credit card - that's a 13.9% discount!
I've spent $217 of it so far, mostly on food.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1910 on: March 30, 2015, 09:01:47 AM »
Saw a good anti-antimustachian one on Facebook today. Someone was talking about the deals they got at various Boxing Day sales. One of the replies was:

"I save a ton of money every year on Boxing Day.  Haven't been in a store on Boxing Day in decades."

Love this! I saved a fortune this year's Black Friday, of course I spent it by sleeping in, and then when I was up I ate leftovers and read a book.

There's re-sellers who make most of their money on giftcards and promos like this. It's nuts and one of those machines that requires the companies to keep it up the deals, but it'st still neat.

(This ones a bit old, but still relevant) I not only save, I earn time and a half by working Black Friday. Last year the company decided to make blackfriday holiday pay, and since I'd rather be shot than be in a store that day, it's worked well for me

Haha well I did literally save money on Black Friday by buying a $300 gift card at Target for $270, and $11.70 in cash back on my credit card - that's a 13.9% discount!
I've spent $217 of it so far, mostly on food.
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ms

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1911 on: April 04, 2015, 02:07:47 AM »
Same mom who could not afford her phone bill a few months back has now purchased:
CUSTOM Diaper Bag Set- Expedient Diaper Bag w/ Changing Pad and Wetbag- PREMIUM FABRIC
$185.74 CAD

https://www.etsy.com/listing/220119351/custom-diaper-bag-set-expedient-diaper

Everyone needs a Happy Potter diaper bag! ;)



MikeBear

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1912 on: April 04, 2015, 01:06:43 PM »
Same mom who could not afford her phone bill a few months back has now purchased:
CUSTOM Diaper Bag Set- Expedient Diaper Bag w/ Changing Pad and Wetbag- PREMIUM FABRIC
$185.74 CAD

https://www.etsy.com/listing/220119351/custom-diaper-bag-set-expedient-diaper

Everyone needs a Happy Potter diaper bag! ;)

Who's "Happy Potter"? Is that Harry Potter's lost brother? lol

ms

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1913 on: April 04, 2015, 05:25:46 PM »
LOL! Maybe it's a Harry Potter knock off. No idea how I miss typed that!

Elliot

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1914 on: April 04, 2015, 06:03:49 PM »

inSecurity

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1915 on: April 05, 2015, 02:50:16 AM »
First, I haven't found many women who enjoy being called "females," which is a completely unsolicited anecdote, but take it or leave it.

As for your question, the kind of ring each woman will want (what gem, what size, what style, if she prioritizes size or quality, or even wants a ring at all) will vary greatly based on the woman in question. Ideally, by the time you plan to propose you will know and understand your future bride well enough to know what styles she gravitates toward, or you'll be in a relationship that's comfortable and mature enough to allow the two of you to have frank discussions about the topic.
I'm so happy that my wife was cool with me proposing before I got a ring.  We went to a pawn shop later that week and got a ring for ~400.  I still wish she hadn't wanted one at all, but meh.  I hadn't found the site yet at the time so who knows how it would go today.

bludreamin

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1916 on: April 05, 2015, 09:30:33 AM »
"The Easter Bunny Visited" under a picture of massive baskets filled with candy along with a new American doll and dirt bike....

My thought - when did Easter become Xmas? Then I feel old beside the next thought is "when I was a kid all I got was candy and I had to search for it hiding in plastic eggs"

Although I've not seen complaints about money from this poster I have seen complaints about job dissatisfaction... Oh and probably most annoying complaints at Xmas time of the use of "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Xmas" AND complaining about commercialization of Christian holidays (that one is really the icing on the hypocritical cake)

Joshin

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1917 on: April 05, 2015, 10:32:22 AM »
A certain person has been posting on my feed all week, begging for work clothes because she just got a new job but has no money to buy clothes. I'm not sure why her old clothing won't work, because she is still in the same industry which is a "business casual" industry.

Today, the Easter basket pictures popped up. There were brand new video games, an RC car, and a new cell phone. (Not a smart phone at least. Her oldest is only 9.)

I'm only "friends" with this person because our kids are in a club together, so I decided to rock the boat. "Wow! How did you get all the loot? I thought you had to save for work clothes?"

Her retort? "Oh, my mom sent me some money for clothes but I decided the kids were more important."

Yep, you're such a martyr. An irresponsible, selfish, ignorant martyr.

justajane

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1918 on: April 05, 2015, 01:21:56 PM »
Same mom who could not afford her phone bill a few months back has now purchased:
CUSTOM Diaper Bag Set- Expedient Diaper Bag w/ Changing Pad and Wetbag- PREMIUM FABRIC
$185.74 CAD

https://www.etsy.com/listing/220119351/custom-diaper-bag-set-expedient-diaper

Everyone needs a Happy Potter diaper bag! ;)

I have a love/hate relationship with Etsy. On the one hand, I love the entrepreneurship and hand made items. On the other, everything is so damned expensive that my Mustachian side just can't purchase anything.

merula

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1919 on: April 05, 2015, 01:50:40 PM »
"The Easter Bunny Visited" under a picture of massive baskets filled with candy along with a new American doll and dirt bike....

My thought - when did Easter become Xmas? Then I feel old beside the next thought is "when I was a kid all I got was candy and I had to search for it hiding in plastic eggs"

Although I've not seen complaints about money from this poster I have seen complaints about job dissatisfaction... Oh and probably most annoying complaints at Xmas time of the use of "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Xmas" AND complaining about commercialization of Christian holidays (that one is really the icing on the hypocritical cake)

I hate the anti-"Happy Holidays" rants. Even if you're Christian and everyone else you ever meet is also Christian, you're still celebrating Christmas and New Years in close succession, so "Happy Holidays" is appropriate. It's basically "I want to be able to pretend that no one exists who is different from me, just like the 1950s."

Those who take it one step further choose to rant against the abbreviation "Xmas", as it's "crossing Christ out of the holiday". Except that X (or the Greek letter Chi) has been used by Christians to abbreviate Christ for going on 19 centuries.

Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

Argyle

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1920 on: April 05, 2015, 02:12:00 PM »
Of course Uncle Sam and the state are giving it back every day.  Where does she think roads, street lights, police forces, food inspectors, national security, and all that come from?  They get volunteers to undertake all that?

But definitely lol about people who think that getting a tax refund (in other words, overpaying your taxes) is free money.

johnny847

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1921 on: April 05, 2015, 02:13:48 PM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

RWD

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1922 on: April 05, 2015, 02:44:10 PM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.

shedinator

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1923 on: April 05, 2015, 04:29:13 PM »
Of course Uncle Sam and the state are giving it back every day.  Where does she think roads, street lights, police forces, food inspectors, national security, and all that come from?  They get volunteers to undertake all that?

But definitely lol about people who think that getting a tax refund (in other words, overpaying your taxes) is free money.

Not necessarily lol. I've had years where my tax refund exceeded my taxes paid for the year due to combinations of credits, especially the EITC, which can equate to upwards of 6,000 in free money for a two-child four person household (more/less depending on household size). Even with fully optimized withholding, there's no way to get the Fed to prepay the EITC. According to 2012 numbers, some 47% of Americans get more back than they ever put in.
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Megma

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1924 on: April 05, 2015, 07:37:00 PM »
Same mom who could not afford her phone bill a few months back has now purchased:
CUSTOM Diaper Bag Set- Expedient Diaper Bag w/ Changing Pad and Wetbag- PREMIUM FABRIC
$185.74 CAD

https://www.etsy.com/listing/220119351/custom-diaper-bag-set-expedient-diaper

Everyone needs a Happy Potter diaper bag! ;)

I have a love/hate relationship with Etsy. On the one hand, I love the entrepreneurship and hand made items. On the other, everything is so damned expensive that my Mustachian side just can't purchase anything.

I feel exactly the same about Etsy! Apparently I should be making custom diaper bags, just the bag was $150, the additional matching accessories were more!

johnny847

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1925 on: April 05, 2015, 09:40:37 PM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.

Wrong. If you answer the questions correctly, don't have any other income, and don't qualify for any tax deductions or credits the W-4 doesn't ask you about, the tax withholding will be exactly right (that is, so long as the employer follows IRS instructions).

Take Bob, a fresh college graduate. Single, no kids. No other sources of income other than a W-2 from a job.

Suppose Bob makes $50k. To make the calculations simple, assume no 401k, HSA, etc. (Or because we're Mustachians, just say that he reports $50k as wages on his tax returns after taking into account 401k and HSA contributions). When Bob fills out the W-4, it instructs him to claim 2 allowances - one for himself and one because he is single and has only one job.

Suppose Bob is paid semimonthly. Every paycheck his gross wages are $2083.33. IRS publication 15 is what employers use to calculate the correct withholding. Lets take a look at page 43. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
Each withholding allownace for the semimonthly pay period is worth $166.70. Bob claims two allowances. Hence, $2083.33 - 2*166.70 = $1749.93 is subject to tax withholding on every paycheck. Now we jump to page 45 for the withholding tables.
On page 45, we find table 3, semimonthly payroll period. Use table a because Bob is single. Amount to withhold is (1749.93-1656)*.25 + 214.80 = $238.28.
Multiply this over 24 paychecks, and we get a total tax withholding of $5718.72.

What's his true tax liability? Let's calculate using the tax tables from http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/10/30/irs-announces-2015-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

Standard deduction is $6300, exemption is $4000. Remember, Bob has nothing special for simplicity. No student loan interest deduction, no IRA, etc.
$50,000 - $6300 - $4000 = $39700 of taxable income.
Tax liability = (39700-37450)*.25 + 5156.25 = $5718.75

I'm three cents off, but that's just a couple rounding errors - not every paycheck is $2083.33 if you want his income to total to exactly $50k.

I could do the same exercise for a different pay cycle (biweekly, monthly, etc) and it will result in the same thing: tax liability = tax withholding.



The W-4 is not biased towards refunds. What happens is that for a large chunk of people, their tax situation is far more complicated than the short worksheet on the W-4 can handle. The only way to get your W-4 correct is to project your total tax liability for the year by taking into account all sources of income, tax deductions, and tax credits, and then manipulating the withhodling to match your projected tax liability. And then come November/December, check it again.
But the W-4 can't possibly ask you about all tax credits and deductions you qualify for because people aren't going to essentially project a full out tax refund when they fill out a W-4. Especially considering most Americans are clueless about taxes and wouldn't be able to do that without any assistance from software or an accountant.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 09:46:56 PM by johnny847 »

RWD

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1926 on: April 05, 2015, 10:51:22 PM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.

Suppose Bob is paid semimonthly. Every paycheck his gross wages are $2083.33. IRS publication 15 is what employers use to calculate the correct withholding. Lets take a look at page 43. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
Each withholding allownace for the semimonthly pay period is worth $166.70. Bob claims two allowances. Hence, $2083.33 - 2*166.70 = $1749.93 is subject to tax withholding on every paycheck. Now we jump to page 45 for the withholding tables.
On page 45, we find table 3, semimonthly payroll period. Use table a because Bob is single. Amount to withhold is (1749.93-1656)*.25 + 214.80 = $238.28.
Multiply this over 24 paychecks, and we get a total tax withholding of $5718.72.

What's his true tax liability? Let's calculate using the tax tables from http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/10/30/irs-announces-2015-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

Standard deduction is $6300, exemption is $4000. Remember, Bob has nothing special for simplicity. No student loan interest deduction, no IRA, etc.
$50,000 - $6300 - $4000 = $39700 of taxable income.
Tax liability = (39700-37450)*.25 + 5156.25 = $5718.75

You claimed two allowances on the W-4 but only accounted for one exemption in the true tax liability. Shouldn't it be:

$50,000 - $6,300 - 2*$4000 = $35,700 of taxable income
Tax liability = (35700-9225)*.15 + 922.50 = $4,893

johnny847

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1927 on: April 06, 2015, 02:16:43 AM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.

Suppose Bob is paid semimonthly. Every paycheck his gross wages are $2083.33. IRS publication 15 is what employers use to calculate the correct withholding. Lets take a look at page 43. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
Each withholding allownace for the semimonthly pay period is worth $166.70. Bob claims two allowances. Hence, $2083.33 - 2*166.70 = $1749.93 is subject to tax withholding on every paycheck. Now we jump to page 45 for the withholding tables.
On page 45, we find table 3, semimonthly payroll period. Use table a because Bob is single. Amount to withhold is (1749.93-1656)*.25 + 214.80 = $238.28.
Multiply this over 24 paychecks, and we get a total tax withholding of $5718.72.

What's his true tax liability? Let's calculate using the tax tables from http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/10/30/irs-announces-2015-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

Standard deduction is $6300, exemption is $4000. Remember, Bob has nothing special for simplicity. No student loan interest deduction, no IRA, etc.
$50,000 - $6300 - $4000 = $39700 of taxable income.
Tax liability = (39700-37450)*.25 + 5156.25 = $5718.75

You claimed two allowances on the W-4 but only accounted for one exemption in the true tax liability. Shouldn't it be:

$50,000 - $6,300 - 2*$4000 = $35,700 of taxable income
Tax liability = (35700-9225)*.15 + 922.50 = $4,893

No.  On your tax return, so long as neither you nor your spouse can be claimed as dependents, you claim an exemption each. If you have dependents, you claim an exemption for each of them.
Bob is a single guy with no dependents. Hence, he gets one exemption on his tax return.

You are confusing an exemption on your tax return with an allowance on your W-4. On the W-4 the term exemption means you can claim exemption from tax withholding - that is, none of your gross salary will be withheld for income tax.
An allowance is just a construct on the W-4 that lowers the amount of your paycheck subject to tax withholding. You can claim as many allowances as you would like. The number of allowances you claim will not, in general, be equal to the number of exemptions you claim on your tax return.

If you're still confused, go read the W-4 and the 1040 again. Particularly lines 6a, 6b, and 6c.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1928 on: April 06, 2015, 08:35:56 AM »
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.
The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.
Many people purposely over-withhold to increase their refund. Others just don't know how to calibrate withholding for their true liability, and are afraid to add allowances since they don't understand the alternate process for more complex situations. If you have the knowledge to accurately calculate your allowances, you will come out pretty close to 0.

However: all bets are off at the state level. I run large refunds from Alabama every year even with my allowances pegged out. I'm convinced their accounting system is set up to take interest-free loans that way, and they are slow as shit to pay it back - I'm talking midsummer.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1929 on: April 06, 2015, 08:42:41 AM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.

Suppose Bob is paid semimonthly. Every paycheck his gross wages are $2083.33. IRS publication 15 is what employers use to calculate the correct withholding. Lets take a look at page 43. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
Each withholding allownace for the semimonthly pay period is worth $166.70. Bob claims two allowances. Hence, $2083.33 - 2*166.70 = $1749.93 is subject to tax withholding on every paycheck. Now we jump to page 45 for the withholding tables.
On page 45, we find table 3, semimonthly payroll period. Use table a because Bob is single. Amount to withhold is (1749.93-1656)*.25 + 214.80 = $238.28.
Multiply this over 24 paychecks, and we get a total tax withholding of $5718.72.

What's his true tax liability? Let's calculate using the tax tables from http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/10/30/irs-announces-2015-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

Standard deduction is $6300, exemption is $4000. Remember, Bob has nothing special for simplicity. No student loan interest deduction, no IRA, etc.
$50,000 - $6300 - $4000 = $39700 of taxable income.
Tax liability = (39700-37450)*.25 + 5156.25 = $5718.75

You claimed two allowances on the W-4 but only accounted for one exemption in the true tax liability. Shouldn't it be:

$50,000 - $6,300 - 2*$4000 = $35,700 of taxable income
Tax liability = (35700-9225)*.15 + 922.50 = $4,893

No.  On your tax return, so long as neither you nor your spouse can be claimed as dependents, you claim an exemption each. If you have dependents, you claim an exemption for each of them.
Bob is a single guy with no dependents. Hence, he gets one exemption on his tax return.

You are confusing an exemption on your tax return with an allowance on your W-4. On the W-4 the term exemption means you can claim exemption from tax withholding - that is, none of your gross salary will be withheld for income tax.
An allowance is just a construct on the W-4 that lowers the amount of your paycheck subject to tax withholding. You can claim as many allowances as you would like. The number of allowances you claim will not, in general, be equal to the number of exemptions you claim on your tax return.

If you're still confused, go read the W-4 and the 1040 again. Particularly lines 6a, 6b, and 6c.

So the standard deduction essentially includes one allowance. Kind of confusing that exemptions != allowances, but I guess it makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that for me!

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1930 on: April 06, 2015, 08:43:53 AM »
However: all bets are off at the state level. I run large refunds from Alabama every year even with my allowances pegged out. I'm convinced their accounting system is set up to take interest-free loans that way, and they are slow as shit to pay it back - I'm talking midsummer.

What the hell? Midsummer? That's absurd.

My rant about GA state taxes:
I would try to get a GA refund of zero but unlike federal taxes where you can always underpay by a fixed amount ($1000) and not owe any penalties, there is no such easy safe harbor provision for GA. The penalty can be avoided but it's pegged to last year's taxes, and it's done on a quarterly basis.
I had to fill out that penalty form once. What a headache. I would rather overpay a bit and get a refund than have to fill out that god damn form again. And GA's marginal tax rate is 6% so it's not like I'm even overpaying that much.
Fortunately they don't take that long to process - I don't recall exactly when i submitted my GA taxes, but I received my refund already. It only took a couple weeks or so.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1931 on: April 06, 2015, 08:55:14 AM »
So the standard deduction essentially includes one allowance. Kind of confusing that exemptions != allowances, but I guess it makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that for me!

Sort of, but not really. An allowance is just a construct. If Bob had a student loan interest deduction, he should claim at least one more allowance. But one (or multiple) additional allowance(s) is highly likely not to align exactly with his true tax liability, especially because the deduction is for an amount between $0 and $2500 (I don't feel like calculating this right now). Suppose it worked out to him wanting to claim an additional 0.5 allowance. But, this is not allowed - you can only claim an integer number of allowances. So he'd end up claiming 3 allowances total (subjecting less of his income to tax withholding) and then use line 6 on the W-4  to have an additional $20.84 per paycheck (because he's in the 25% bracket, and 0.5 of an allowance if allowed would result in 0.5*166.70*.25 = $20.84 of tax withheld - recall that an allowance for the semimonthly pay cycle is worth $166.70).

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1932 on: April 06, 2015, 10:31:11 AM »
What the hell? Midsummer? That's absurd.
I've filed in Jan and received my refund in April in the past. Their statutory limit is something like 4 months, and they generally use the better part of it.
It's frustrating when there's so much tied up in it.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1933 on: April 06, 2015, 11:40:47 AM »
Same thing for NC. They also claim that they have free e-filing. Free if you already have software that they approved, that is.

So I send my return in the mail like a peon every March (can't do before because the brokerage account doesn't have the numbers yet), and have never gotten my refund back before June.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1934 on: April 09, 2015, 06:48:22 PM »
Same thing for NC. They also claim that they have free e-filing. Free if you already have software that they approved, that is.

So I send my return in the mail like a peon every March (can't do before because the brokerage account doesn't have the numbers yet), and have never gotten my refund back before June.

I filed for free online in NC, I used the free HR block product for federal and state (not everyone qualifies for this) and got my small refund in around 2 weeks, you might check if you qualify! Works great.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1935 on: April 09, 2015, 09:21:14 PM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”

FIRE'd on January 4, 2017

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1936 on: April 10, 2015, 06:42:43 AM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”
Lol haven't seen anything like that yet. How ridiculous
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1937 on: April 10, 2015, 07:34:43 AM »
In my factory, people used to be able to take cardboard, scrap wood, pallets, etc. and in some cases, small scrap metal.

Everything is weighed and measured now, including our shredded office papers. We're not allowed to bring out anything from inside the fence.
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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1938 on: April 10, 2015, 08:24:48 AM »
First, I haven't found many women who enjoy being called "females," which is a completely unsolicited anecdote, but take it or leave it.

As for your question, the kind of ring each woman will want (what gem, what size, what style, if she prioritizes size or quality, or even wants a ring at all) will vary greatly based on the woman in question. Ideally, by the time you plan to propose you will know and understand your future bride well enough to know what styles she gravitates toward, or you'll be in a relationship that's comfortable and mature enough to allow the two of you to have frank discussions about the topic.
I'm so happy that my wife was cool with me proposing before I got a ring.  We went to a pawn shop later that week and got a ring for ~400.  I still wish she hadn't wanted one at all, but meh.  I hadn't found the site yet at the time so who knows how it would go today.

My wife wanted a pearl and it was really hard to find a unique one (most are a circle of diamonds around the pearl). Once I saw the price though, I loved it! So much cheaper than a diamond and the stones are huge and easier to replace if screwed up.
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eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1939 on: April 10, 2015, 08:44:14 AM »
I have a love/hate relationship with Etsy. On the one hand, I love the entrepreneurship and hand made items. On the other, everything is so damned expensive that my Mustachian side just can't purchase anything.

Handmade material imported from China isn't that hard to find. Etsy is going to go public and I feel like it's going to flop in a not so long time. So much crap on there now.
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eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1940 on: April 10, 2015, 08:50:47 AM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.

Wrong. If you answer the questions correctly, don't have any other income, and don't qualify for any tax deductions or credits the W-4 doesn't ask you about, the tax withholding will be exactly right (that is, so long as the employer follows IRS instructions).

Take Bob, a fresh college graduate. Single, no kids. No other sources of income other than a W-2 from a job.

Suppose Bob makes $50k. To make the calculations simple, assume no 401k, HSA, etc. (Or because we're Mustachians, just say that he reports $50k as wages on his tax returns after taking into account 401k and HSA contributions). When Bob fills out the W-4, it instructs him to claim 2 allowances - one for himself and one because he is single and has only one job.

Suppose Bob is paid semimonthly. Every paycheck his gross wages are $2083.33. IRS publication 15 is what employers use to calculate the correct withholding. Lets take a look at page 43. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
Each withholding allownace for the semimonthly pay period is worth $166.70. Bob claims two allowances. Hence, $2083.33 - 2*166.70 = $1749.93 is subject to tax withholding on every paycheck. Now we jump to page 45 for the withholding tables.
On page 45, we find table 3, semimonthly payroll period. Use table a because Bob is single. Amount to withhold is (1749.93-1656)*.25 + 214.80 = $238.28.
Multiply this over 24 paychecks, and we get a total tax withholding of $5718.72.

What's his true tax liability? Let's calculate using the tax tables from http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/10/30/irs-announces-2015-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

Standard deduction is $6300, exemption is $4000. Remember, Bob has nothing special for simplicity. No student loan interest deduction, no IRA, etc.
$50,000 - $6300 - $4000 = $39700 of taxable income.
Tax liability = (39700-37450)*.25 + 5156.25 = $5718.75

I'm three cents off, but that's just a couple rounding errors - not every paycheck is $2083.33 if you want his income to total to exactly $50k.

I could do the same exercise for a different pay cycle (biweekly, monthly, etc) and it will result in the same thing: tax liability = tax withholding.



The W-4 is not biased towards refunds. What happens is that for a large chunk of people, their tax situation is far more complicated than the short worksheet on the W-4 can handle. The only way to get your W-4 correct is to project your total tax liability for the year by taking into account all sources of income, tax deductions, and tax credits, and then manipulating the withhodling to match your projected tax liability. And then come November/December, check it again.
But the W-4 can't possibly ask you about all tax credits and deductions you qualify for because people aren't going to essentially project a full out tax refund when they fill out a W-4. Especially considering most Americans are clueless about taxes and wouldn't be able to do that without any assistance from software or an accountant.

The hardest part for me is that you get a raise in March. So you need to adjust your withholding at that time. Or later in the year. And since my company is all paper based, you have to update the form manually and hope to god that the the withholding gets updated on time or else you'll end up owing.
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Ashyukun

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1941 on: April 10, 2015, 08:54:12 AM »
Quote from: justajane

I have a love/hate relationship with Etsy. On the one hand, I love the entrepreneurship and hand made items. On the other, everything is so damned expensive that my Mustachian side just can't purchase anything.

I love it- my wife has a great time creating things to sell on it (though she doesn't sell a lot, the materials are cheap) and we've found some really cool, unique things for each other. The cast 2x2x1 LEGO tie tack she got me two Christmases ago is still one of the most fun presents I've ever received and it ALWAYS gets a lot of interest when someone new sees it. My wedding ring also came from Etsy- was about the only place to find Damascus steel rings, and were able to get it customized even further so it's even more unique than it would have been originally.

There is plenty of overly expensive, unnecessary stuff there though- you just have to enjoy looking at the pictures and not buy it. :P

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1942 on: April 10, 2015, 01:27:21 PM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”
Lol haven't seen anything like that yet. How ridiculous

Around here I often see old beat up trucks driving around with used cardboard stacked 20 feet high (I didn't measure but it's probably to whatever legal maximum vehicle height is).  I always wondered how profitable it could possibly be, but I guess it's relatively valuable. Likely the box stores get paid for their cardboard so obviously they would want to prosecute theft of valuable goods.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1943 on: April 10, 2015, 01:46:02 PM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”
Lol haven't seen anything like that yet. How ridiculous

Around here I often see old beat up trucks driving around with used cardboard stacked 20 feet high (I didn't measure but it's probably to whatever legal maximum vehicle height is).  I always wondered how profitable it could possibly be, but I guess it's relatively valuable. Likely the box stores get paid for their cardboard so obviously they would want to prosecute theft of valuable goods.

There is some money to be made. I have a customer in Chicago that used to need to have garbage picked up DAILY due to how much boxes they were getting in and having to go through. Then they bought a machine that will compact them and bind them, and this has enabled them to go towards having garbage picked up weekly, a significant savings that would pay for the machine in under 2 years. Then they realized that they could just sell the cardboard to a recycler and so the machine is making them money!

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1944 on: April 10, 2015, 04:00:15 PM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”
Lol haven't seen anything like that yet. How ridiculous

Around here I often see old beat up trucks driving around with used cardboard stacked 20 feet high (I didn't measure but it's probably to whatever legal maximum vehicle height is).  I always wondered how profitable it could possibly be, but I guess it's relatively valuable. Likely the box stores get paid for their cardboard so obviously they would want to prosecute theft of valuable goods.

There is some money to be made. I have a customer in Chicago that used to need to have garbage picked up DAILY due to how much boxes they were getting in and having to go through. Then they bought a machine that will compact them and bind them, and this has enabled them to go towards having garbage picked up weekly, a significant savings that would pay for the machine in under 2 years. Then they realized that they could just sell the cardboard to a recycler and so the machine is making them money!

What do they do with it?  Like is it the same as paper recycling where they re-form it into brand new cardboard or are they re-using the boxes somehow?  Is it somehow more efficient than normal paper recycling (i.e., why do they separate the cardboard from the paper?)  I've been curious but a quick google tells me nothing.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1945 on: April 10, 2015, 05:48:01 PM »
So this just happened.

-pictures of Honda S2000-
"Going out to check this baby out today. If everything goes well, I'll be driving it home.
Side note, does anybody know somewhere hiring part-time?"

My reply was "Need a part time job, better go buy an S2k"

Not only was my heavy sarcasm ignored, others in the group encouraged the original poster to finance the car as opposed to buying it out-right with cash that he had saved up, saying "if you can get a low apr, it will build your credit really well. Something like .9%"

Several points to be made here.
- I have never even heard of a car being financed with an APR any less than the high 1s/low 2s. Is this guy full of it, or am I just ignorant?
- I had an excellent credit score when I financed a car in my pre-mustachian days, and I still only barely managed less than a 3% APR. The poster is in his early 20s. I don't know anybody in the 22-23 age range with a credit score high enough to land less than 1% on a loan, do you?
- They completely leave out the fact that even though there might not be late fees (depending on who you borrow through), missing even one payment will slash your credit score. I was blissfully unaware of this in my free-spending days. Fortunately, I learned (the hard way) before too much damage was done to my score.

It seemed that any time I tried to chime in suggesting not to borrow money, there were 5 more people encouraging the poster to borrow like there's no tomorrow. Are people REALLY so short-sighted that they won't listen to somebody that has made the mistake they are currently contemplating?

RWD

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1946 on: April 10, 2015, 06:12:13 PM »
- I have never even heard of a car being financed with an APR any less than the high 1s/low 2s. Is this guy full of it, or am I just ignorant?

Dealers often run promotional financing deals for new cars. 0.9% and 1.9% are fairly common. Even 0% is not unheard of. It's just a different way of incentivizing a new car purchase.

Since the S2000 can no longer be bought new a sub-2% financing deal is unlikely. Chase is currently offering 2.18% on used cars if you buy from a dealer, put down 5%, and have great credit. There are probably other conditions/restrictions as well.


Are people REALLY so short-sighted that they won't listen to somebody that has made the mistake they are currently contemplating?

Yes.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1947 on: April 10, 2015, 08:54:02 PM »
Not exactly over heard on fb but going along with the post re part time work/new job, I have noticed in the past 2 months A LOT of people in brand new fancy cars delivering pizza.
Its silly financially but also, if cars are a status symbol of some sort, arent you defeating the purpose of said status symbol by driving around town delivering pizza in it (complete with the plastic hood thingie and all) for minimum wage??? Its nuts.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1948 on: April 10, 2015, 09:19:55 PM »
Not exactly over heard on fb but going along with the post re part time work/new job, I have noticed in the past 2 months A LOT of people in brand new fancy cars delivering pizza.
Its silly financially but also, if cars are a status symbol of some sort, arent you defeating the purpose of said status symbol by driving around town delivering pizza in it (complete with the plastic hood thingie and all) for minimum wage??? Its nuts.

Yes, I see this in my town.  Cars that are shiny and less than 3-4 years old with a pizza delivery sign on the roof.  Maybe they are FIRE and just really like delivering pizza?  Unlikely.  It's sad really.  But hey, at least they are working, right?  If it's their full-time gig, hopefully they'll wise up and sell the fancypants car.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1949 on: April 11, 2015, 10:44:00 AM »
Someone who 18 months ago told me they have no savings and tons of debt has, in the past few months posted about: A "surprise" baby, 2 brand new cars, a new house that they are completely updating, a cruise, and also checks into restaurants multiple times weekly.

Maybe they just got a windfall? It's hard to look away.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 10:46:40 AM by flamingo25 »