Author Topic: Overheard on Facebook  (Read 3057814 times)

johnny847

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1900 on: April 06, 2015, 02:16:43 AM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.

Suppose Bob is paid semimonthly. Every paycheck his gross wages are $2083.33. IRS publication 15 is what employers use to calculate the correct withholding. Lets take a look at page 43. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
Each withholding allownace for the semimonthly pay period is worth $166.70. Bob claims two allowances. Hence, $2083.33 - 2*166.70 = $1749.93 is subject to tax withholding on every paycheck. Now we jump to page 45 for the withholding tables.
On page 45, we find table 3, semimonthly payroll period. Use table a because Bob is single. Amount to withhold is (1749.93-1656)*.25 + 214.80 = $238.28.
Multiply this over 24 paychecks, and we get a total tax withholding of $5718.72.

What's his true tax liability? Let's calculate using the tax tables from http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/10/30/irs-announces-2015-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

Standard deduction is $6300, exemption is $4000. Remember, Bob has nothing special for simplicity. No student loan interest deduction, no IRA, etc.
$50,000 - $6300 - $4000 = $39700 of taxable income.
Tax liability = (39700-37450)*.25 + 5156.25 = $5718.75

You claimed two allowances on the W-4 but only accounted for one exemption in the true tax liability. Shouldn't it be:

$50,000 - $6,300 - 2*$4000 = $35,700 of taxable income
Tax liability = (35700-9225)*.15 + 922.50 = $4,893

No.  On your tax return, so long as neither you nor your spouse can be claimed as dependents, you claim an exemption each. If you have dependents, you claim an exemption for each of them.
Bob is a single guy with no dependents. Hence, he gets one exemption on his tax return.

You are confusing an exemption on your tax return with an allowance on your W-4. On the W-4 the term exemption means you can claim exemption from tax withholding - that is, none of your gross salary will be withheld for income tax.
An allowance is just a construct on the W-4 that lowers the amount of your paycheck subject to tax withholding. You can claim as many allowances as you would like. The number of allowances you claim will not, in general, be equal to the number of exemptions you claim on your tax return.

If you're still confused, go read the W-4 and the 1040 again. Particularly lines 6a, 6b, and 6c.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1901 on: April 06, 2015, 08:35:56 AM »
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.
The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.
Many people purposely over-withhold to increase their refund. Others just don't know how to calibrate withholding for their true liability, and are afraid to add allowances since they don't understand the alternate process for more complex situations. If you have the knowledge to accurately calculate your allowances, you will come out pretty close to 0.

However: all bets are off at the state level. I run large refunds from Alabama every year even with my allowances pegged out. I'm convinced their accounting system is set up to take interest-free loans that way, and they are slow as shit to pay it back - I'm talking midsummer.

RWD

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1902 on: April 06, 2015, 08:42:41 AM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.

Suppose Bob is paid semimonthly. Every paycheck his gross wages are $2083.33. IRS publication 15 is what employers use to calculate the correct withholding. Lets take a look at page 43. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
Each withholding allownace for the semimonthly pay period is worth $166.70. Bob claims two allowances. Hence, $2083.33 - 2*166.70 = $1749.93 is subject to tax withholding on every paycheck. Now we jump to page 45 for the withholding tables.
On page 45, we find table 3, semimonthly payroll period. Use table a because Bob is single. Amount to withhold is (1749.93-1656)*.25 + 214.80 = $238.28.
Multiply this over 24 paychecks, and we get a total tax withholding of $5718.72.

What's his true tax liability? Let's calculate using the tax tables from http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/10/30/irs-announces-2015-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

Standard deduction is $6300, exemption is $4000. Remember, Bob has nothing special for simplicity. No student loan interest deduction, no IRA, etc.
$50,000 - $6300 - $4000 = $39700 of taxable income.
Tax liability = (39700-37450)*.25 + 5156.25 = $5718.75

You claimed two allowances on the W-4 but only accounted for one exemption in the true tax liability. Shouldn't it be:

$50,000 - $6,300 - 2*$4000 = $35,700 of taxable income
Tax liability = (35700-9225)*.15 + 922.50 = $4,893

No.  On your tax return, so long as neither you nor your spouse can be claimed as dependents, you claim an exemption each. If you have dependents, you claim an exemption for each of them.
Bob is a single guy with no dependents. Hence, he gets one exemption on his tax return.

You are confusing an exemption on your tax return with an allowance on your W-4. On the W-4 the term exemption means you can claim exemption from tax withholding - that is, none of your gross salary will be withheld for income tax.
An allowance is just a construct on the W-4 that lowers the amount of your paycheck subject to tax withholding. You can claim as many allowances as you would like. The number of allowances you claim will not, in general, be equal to the number of exemptions you claim on your tax return.

If you're still confused, go read the W-4 and the 1040 again. Particularly lines 6a, 6b, and 6c.

So the standard deduction essentially includes one allowance. Kind of confusing that exemptions != allowances, but I guess it makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that for me!

johnny847

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1903 on: April 06, 2015, 08:43:53 AM »
However: all bets are off at the state level. I run large refunds from Alabama every year even with my allowances pegged out. I'm convinced their accounting system is set up to take interest-free loans that way, and they are slow as shit to pay it back - I'm talking midsummer.

What the hell? Midsummer? That's absurd.

My rant about GA state taxes:
I would try to get a GA refund of zero but unlike federal taxes where you can always underpay by a fixed amount ($1000) and not owe any penalties, there is no such easy safe harbor provision for GA. The penalty can be avoided but it's pegged to last year's taxes, and it's done on a quarterly basis.
I had to fill out that penalty form once. What a headache. I would rather overpay a bit and get a refund than have to fill out that god damn form again. And GA's marginal tax rate is 6% so it's not like I'm even overpaying that much.
Fortunately they don't take that long to process - I don't recall exactly when i submitted my GA taxes, but I received my refund already. It only took a couple weeks or so.

johnny847

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1904 on: April 06, 2015, 08:55:14 AM »
So the standard deduction essentially includes one allowance. Kind of confusing that exemptions != allowances, but I guess it makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that for me!

Sort of, but not really. An allowance is just a construct. If Bob had a student loan interest deduction, he should claim at least one more allowance. But one (or multiple) additional allowance(s) is highly likely not to align exactly with his true tax liability, especially because the deduction is for an amount between $0 and $2500 (I don't feel like calculating this right now). Suppose it worked out to him wanting to claim an additional 0.5 allowance. But, this is not allowed - you can only claim an integer number of allowances. So he'd end up claiming 3 allowances total (subjecting less of his income to tax withholding) and then use line 6 on the W-4  to have an additional $20.84 per paycheck (because he's in the 25% bracket, and 0.5 of an allowance if allowed would result in 0.5*166.70*.25 = $20.84 of tax withheld - recall that an allowance for the semimonthly pay cycle is worth $166.70).

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1905 on: April 06, 2015, 10:31:11 AM »
What the hell? Midsummer? That's absurd.
I've filed in Jan and received my refund in April in the past. Their statutory limit is something like 4 months, and they generally use the better part of it.
It's frustrating when there's so much tied up in it.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1906 on: April 06, 2015, 11:40:47 AM »
Same thing for NC. They also claim that they have free e-filing. Free if you already have software that they approved, that is.

So I send my return in the mail like a peon every March (can't do before because the brokerage account doesn't have the numbers yet), and have never gotten my refund back before June.

Megma

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1907 on: April 09, 2015, 06:48:22 PM »
Same thing for NC. They also claim that they have free e-filing. Free if you already have software that they approved, that is.

So I send my return in the mail like a peon every March (can't do before because the brokerage account doesn't have the numbers yet), and have never gotten my refund back before June.

I filed for free online in NC, I used the free HR block product for federal and state (not everyone qualifies for this) and got my small refund in around 2 weeks, you might check if you qualify! Works great.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1908 on: April 09, 2015, 09:21:14 PM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”


Hedge_87

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1909 on: April 10, 2015, 06:42:43 AM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”
Lol haven't seen anything like that yet. How ridiculous

FunkyStickman

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1910 on: April 10, 2015, 07:34:43 AM »
In my factory, people used to be able to take cardboard, scrap wood, pallets, etc. and in some cases, small scrap metal.

Everything is weighed and measured now, including our shredded office papers. We're not allowed to bring out anything from inside the fence.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1911 on: April 10, 2015, 08:24:48 AM »
First, I haven't found many women who enjoy being called "females," which is a completely unsolicited anecdote, but take it or leave it.

As for your question, the kind of ring each woman will want (what gem, what size, what style, if she prioritizes size or quality, or even wants a ring at all) will vary greatly based on the woman in question. Ideally, by the time you plan to propose you will know and understand your future bride well enough to know what styles she gravitates toward, or you'll be in a relationship that's comfortable and mature enough to allow the two of you to have frank discussions about the topic.
I'm so happy that my wife was cool with me proposing before I got a ring.  We went to a pawn shop later that week and got a ring for ~400.  I still wish she hadn't wanted one at all, but meh.  I hadn't found the site yet at the time so who knows how it would go today.

My wife wanted a pearl and it was really hard to find a unique one (most are a circle of diamonds around the pearl). Once I saw the price though, I loved it! So much cheaper than a diamond and the stones are huge and easier to replace if screwed up.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1912 on: April 10, 2015, 08:44:14 AM »
I have a love/hate relationship with Etsy. On the one hand, I love the entrepreneurship and hand made items. On the other, everything is so damned expensive that my Mustachian side just can't purchase anything.

Handmade material imported from China isn't that hard to find. Etsy is going to go public and I feel like it's going to flop in a not so long time. So much crap on there now.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1913 on: April 10, 2015, 08:50:47 AM »
Back on topic:

Post from a friend-of-a-friend: "2014 Taxes are done! Only owed Uncle Sam an additional $1008 and [State] an additional $186. I'm sure they will give it back someday... Not"

Response: "You had to pay in? here I was going to ask you for insight on getting the most out of uncle Sam!"

Because the goal is to get a tax refund, of course.

*sigh*

If only people would understand that the friend of a friend did it far closer to optimal than most Americans (dunno if that person ended up paying penalties for underpayment of tax, but even if he or she did, it can't have been all that much for that low a balance).
I believe the average tax refund for households in this country is $3k.

The W-4 is biased towards refunds. If you set the correct number of allowances and don't have any other income it is designed to overwithhold.

Wrong. If you answer the questions correctly, don't have any other income, and don't qualify for any tax deductions or credits the W-4 doesn't ask you about, the tax withholding will be exactly right (that is, so long as the employer follows IRS instructions).

Take Bob, a fresh college graduate. Single, no kids. No other sources of income other than a W-2 from a job.

Suppose Bob makes $50k. To make the calculations simple, assume no 401k, HSA, etc. (Or because we're Mustachians, just say that he reports $50k as wages on his tax returns after taking into account 401k and HSA contributions). When Bob fills out the W-4, it instructs him to claim 2 allowances - one for himself and one because he is single and has only one job.

Suppose Bob is paid semimonthly. Every paycheck his gross wages are $2083.33. IRS publication 15 is what employers use to calculate the correct withholding. Lets take a look at page 43. www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
Each withholding allownace for the semimonthly pay period is worth $166.70. Bob claims two allowances. Hence, $2083.33 - 2*166.70 = $1749.93 is subject to tax withholding on every paycheck. Now we jump to page 45 for the withholding tables.
On page 45, we find table 3, semimonthly payroll period. Use table a because Bob is single. Amount to withhold is (1749.93-1656)*.25 + 214.80 = $238.28.
Multiply this over 24 paychecks, and we get a total tax withholding of $5718.72.

What's his true tax liability? Let's calculate using the tax tables from http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/10/30/irs-announces-2015-tax-brackets-standard-deduction-amounts-and-more/

Standard deduction is $6300, exemption is $4000. Remember, Bob has nothing special for simplicity. No student loan interest deduction, no IRA, etc.
$50,000 - $6300 - $4000 = $39700 of taxable income.
Tax liability = (39700-37450)*.25 + 5156.25 = $5718.75

I'm three cents off, but that's just a couple rounding errors - not every paycheck is $2083.33 if you want his income to total to exactly $50k.

I could do the same exercise for a different pay cycle (biweekly, monthly, etc) and it will result in the same thing: tax liability = tax withholding.



The W-4 is not biased towards refunds. What happens is that for a large chunk of people, their tax situation is far more complicated than the short worksheet on the W-4 can handle. The only way to get your W-4 correct is to project your total tax liability for the year by taking into account all sources of income, tax deductions, and tax credits, and then manipulating the withhodling to match your projected tax liability. And then come November/December, check it again.
But the W-4 can't possibly ask you about all tax credits and deductions you qualify for because people aren't going to essentially project a full out tax refund when they fill out a W-4. Especially considering most Americans are clueless about taxes and wouldn't be able to do that without any assistance from software or an accountant.

The hardest part for me is that you get a raise in March. So you need to adjust your withholding at that time. Or later in the year. And since my company is all paper based, you have to update the form manually and hope to god that the the withholding gets updated on time or else you'll end up owing.

Ashyukun

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1914 on: April 10, 2015, 08:54:12 AM »
Quote from: justajane

I have a love/hate relationship with Etsy. On the one hand, I love the entrepreneurship and hand made items. On the other, everything is so damned expensive that my Mustachian side just can't purchase anything.

I love it- my wife has a great time creating things to sell on it (though she doesn't sell a lot, the materials are cheap) and we've found some really cool, unique things for each other. The cast 2x2x1 LEGO tie tack she got me two Christmases ago is still one of the most fun presents I've ever received and it ALWAYS gets a lot of interest when someone new sees it. My wedding ring also came from Etsy- was about the only place to find Damascus steel rings, and were able to get it customized even further so it's even more unique than it would have been originally.

There is plenty of overly expensive, unnecessary stuff there though- you just have to enjoy looking at the pictures and not buy it. :P

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1915 on: April 10, 2015, 01:27:21 PM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”
Lol haven't seen anything like that yet. How ridiculous

Around here I often see old beat up trucks driving around with used cardboard stacked 20 feet high (I didn't measure but it's probably to whatever legal maximum vehicle height is).  I always wondered how profitable it could possibly be, but I guess it's relatively valuable. Likely the box stores get paid for their cardboard so obviously they would want to prosecute theft of valuable goods.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1916 on: April 10, 2015, 01:46:02 PM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”
Lol haven't seen anything like that yet. How ridiculous

Around here I often see old beat up trucks driving around with used cardboard stacked 20 feet high (I didn't measure but it's probably to whatever legal maximum vehicle height is).  I always wondered how profitable it could possibly be, but I guess it's relatively valuable. Likely the box stores get paid for their cardboard so obviously they would want to prosecute theft of valuable goods.

There is some money to be made. I have a customer in Chicago that used to need to have garbage picked up DAILY due to how much boxes they were getting in and having to go through. Then they bought a machine that will compact them and bind them, and this has enabled them to go towards having garbage picked up weekly, a significant savings that would pay for the machine in under 2 years. Then they realized that they could just sell the cardboard to a recycler and so the machine is making them money!

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1917 on: April 10, 2015, 04:00:15 PM »

Yet wealthy me saved the money to buy pizza for the movers instead and got more boxes than I would ever need out of the immaculate cardboard recycle bin behind the local wine store.  Those wine boxes are study!  For bigger ones I went to the recycle bin two stores over behind Pier 1 Imports (up to chair sized boxes with bonus potpourri scent!)

Free boxes may be going the way of all good things. A few of the big box stores in my area have posted signs on their bins reading “Anyone caught stealing cardboard will be prosecuted.”
Lol haven't seen anything like that yet. How ridiculous

Around here I often see old beat up trucks driving around with used cardboard stacked 20 feet high (I didn't measure but it's probably to whatever legal maximum vehicle height is).  I always wondered how profitable it could possibly be, but I guess it's relatively valuable. Likely the box stores get paid for their cardboard so obviously they would want to prosecute theft of valuable goods.

There is some money to be made. I have a customer in Chicago that used to need to have garbage picked up DAILY due to how much boxes they were getting in and having to go through. Then they bought a machine that will compact them and bind them, and this has enabled them to go towards having garbage picked up weekly, a significant savings that would pay for the machine in under 2 years. Then they realized that they could just sell the cardboard to a recycler and so the machine is making them money!

What do they do with it?  Like is it the same as paper recycling where they re-form it into brand new cardboard or are they re-using the boxes somehow?  Is it somehow more efficient than normal paper recycling (i.e., why do they separate the cardboard from the paper?)  I've been curious but a quick google tells me nothing.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1918 on: April 10, 2015, 05:48:01 PM »
So this just happened.

-pictures of Honda S2000-
"Going out to check this baby out today. If everything goes well, I'll be driving it home.
Side note, does anybody know somewhere hiring part-time?"

My reply was "Need a part time job, better go buy an S2k"

Not only was my heavy sarcasm ignored, others in the group encouraged the original poster to finance the car as opposed to buying it out-right with cash that he had saved up, saying "if you can get a low apr, it will build your credit really well. Something like .9%"

Several points to be made here.
- I have never even heard of a car being financed with an APR any less than the high 1s/low 2s. Is this guy full of it, or am I just ignorant?
- I had an excellent credit score when I financed a car in my pre-mustachian days, and I still only barely managed less than a 3% APR. The poster is in his early 20s. I don't know anybody in the 22-23 age range with a credit score high enough to land less than 1% on a loan, do you?
- They completely leave out the fact that even though there might not be late fees (depending on who you borrow through), missing even one payment will slash your credit score. I was blissfully unaware of this in my free-spending days. Fortunately, I learned (the hard way) before too much damage was done to my score.

It seemed that any time I tried to chime in suggesting not to borrow money, there were 5 more people encouraging the poster to borrow like there's no tomorrow. Are people REALLY so short-sighted that they won't listen to somebody that has made the mistake they are currently contemplating?

RWD

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1919 on: April 10, 2015, 06:12:13 PM »
- I have never even heard of a car being financed with an APR any less than the high 1s/low 2s. Is this guy full of it, or am I just ignorant?

Dealers often run promotional financing deals for new cars. 0.9% and 1.9% are fairly common. Even 0% is not unheard of. It's just a different way of incentivizing a new car purchase.

Since the S2000 can no longer be bought new a sub-2% financing deal is unlikely. Chase is currently offering 2.18% on used cars if you buy from a dealer, put down 5%, and have great credit. There are probably other conditions/restrictions as well.


Are people REALLY so short-sighted that they won't listen to somebody that has made the mistake they are currently contemplating?

Yes.

resy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1920 on: April 10, 2015, 08:54:02 PM »
Not exactly over heard on fb but going along with the post re part time work/new job, I have noticed in the past 2 months A LOT of people in brand new fancy cars delivering pizza.
Its silly financially but also, if cars are a status symbol of some sort, arent you defeating the purpose of said status symbol by driving around town delivering pizza in it (complete with the plastic hood thingie and all) for minimum wage??? Its nuts.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1921 on: April 10, 2015, 09:19:55 PM »
Not exactly over heard on fb but going along with the post re part time work/new job, I have noticed in the past 2 months A LOT of people in brand new fancy cars delivering pizza.
Its silly financially but also, if cars are a status symbol of some sort, arent you defeating the purpose of said status symbol by driving around town delivering pizza in it (complete with the plastic hood thingie and all) for minimum wage??? Its nuts.

Yes, I see this in my town.  Cars that are shiny and less than 3-4 years old with a pizza delivery sign on the roof.  Maybe they are FIRE and just really like delivering pizza?  Unlikely.  It's sad really.  But hey, at least they are working, right?  If it's their full-time gig, hopefully they'll wise up and sell the fancypants car.

flamingo25

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1922 on: April 11, 2015, 10:44:00 AM »
Someone who 18 months ago told me they have no savings and tons of debt has, in the past few months posted about: A "surprise" baby, 2 brand new cars, a new house that they are completely updating, a cruise, and also checks into restaurants multiple times weekly.

Maybe they just got a windfall? It's hard to look away.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 10:46:40 AM by flamingo25 »

Cinder

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1923 on: April 11, 2015, 02:25:34 PM »
...  A "surprise" baby,...

Sometimes they really are a surprise...  Yes, you're having sex, no surprise that THAT causes babies to happen, but sometimes people are on medication that causes hormonal birth control to become ineffective... I had this happen to one of my wife's co-workers recently... high stress (family members passing away, general high strung personality, etc..), various medications, and BAM ... surprise!

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1924 on: April 11, 2015, 03:03:26 PM »
Maybe MOST surprise babies are the result of carelessness (full confession: I have one of these). But don't judge unless you know for SURE. Some of those surprise babies are honest-to-God method failures. Even IUDs have been known to fail.

flamingo25

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1925 on: April 11, 2015, 06:10:45 PM »
Maybe MOST surprise babies are the result of carelessness (full confession: I have one of these). But don't judge unless you know for SURE. Some of those surprise babies are honest-to-God method failures. Even IUDs have been known to fail.

I fully believe you . However, I am familiar enough with the situation to know that she was deliberately careless with birth control in order to get pregnant even though her husband wanted to wait.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1926 on: April 11, 2015, 06:58:08 PM »
Maybe MOST surprise babies are the result of carelessness (full confession: I have one of these). But don't judge unless you know for SURE. Some of those surprise babies are honest-to-God method failures. Even IUDs have been known to fail.

I fully believe you . However, I am familiar enough with the situation to know that she was deliberately careless with birth control in order to get pregnant even though her husband wanted to wait.
That's divorce material right there.

A friend of mine dated a women that poked holes in their condoms. I heard this from his sister and didn't want to pry, so I don't know the full details but it was implied that the women wanted to spur him to propose and thought this would do it. Thankfully she never got pregnant and he dumped her when he found out.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1927 on: April 13, 2015, 08:09:19 AM »
Not exactly over heard on fb but going along with the post re part time work/new job, I have noticed in the past 2 months A LOT of people in brand new fancy cars delivering pizza.
Its silly financially but also, if cars are a status symbol of some sort, arent you defeating the purpose of said status symbol by driving around town delivering pizza in it (complete with the plastic hood thingie and all) for minimum wage??? Its nuts.

Nothing makes a Lexus more impressive than a visible cloud of pepperoni grease stink.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1928 on: April 13, 2015, 09:45:02 AM »
Maybe MOST surprise babies are the result of carelessness (full confession: I have one of these). But don't judge unless you know for SURE. Some of those surprise babies are honest-to-God method failures. Even IUDs have been known to fail.

I fully believe you . However, I am familiar enough with the situation to know that she was deliberately careless with birth control in order to get pregnant even though her husband wanted to wait.
God damn, what a stupid bitch. I'd never forgive that shit.

MOD NOTE: Forum rule #1.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 01:08:33 PM by arebelspy »

Xlar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1929 on: April 13, 2015, 10:08:26 AM »
So this just happened.

-pictures of Honda S2000-
"Going out to check this baby out today. If everything goes well, I'll be driving it home.
Side note, does anybody know somewhere hiring part-time?"

My reply was "Need a part time job, better go buy an S2k"

Not only was my heavy sarcasm ignored, others in the group encouraged the original poster to finance the car as opposed to buying it out-right with cash that he had saved up, saying "if you can get a low apr, it will build your credit really well. Something like .9%"

Several points to be made here.
- I have never even heard of a car being financed with an APR any less than the high 1s/low 2s. Is this guy full of it, or am I just ignorant?
- I had an excellent credit score when I financed a car in my pre-mustachian days, and I still only barely managed less than a 3% APR. The poster is in his early 20s. I don't know anybody in the 22-23 age range with a credit score high enough to land less than 1% on a loan, do you?
- They completely leave out the fact that even though there might not be late fees (depending on who you borrow through), missing even one payment will slash your credit score. I was blissfully unaware of this in my free-spending days. Fortunately, I learned (the hard way) before too much damage was done to my score.

It seemed that any time I tried to chime in suggesting not to borrow money, there were 5 more people encouraging the poster to borrow like there's no tomorrow. Are people REALLY so short-sighted that they won't listen to somebody that has made the mistake they are currently contemplating?

It's not too hard to get and APR less than 2%. The key is that the car should sell for market value and the dealer is asking well over the market value of the car. I had some friends that bought a used car and got 0% APR. It turns out that KBB/NADA/other dealers were selling comparable cars for ~12k. They bought this one for $13.5k + spent another 5k on a useless warranty (3rd party with no real coverage) and a useless maintenance package (They bought it from a dealer hours away from where they lived and the maintenance can only be performed at that one dealership). So since they overpaid on the car by around $6.5k the dealer was of course happy to give them 0% APR.

The reason that they got into this problem was because all they were concerned about was how much the monthly payment was and how low the APR was. They didn't even consider how much they were spending or how long the term of the loan was for.

The dealer is able to provide the 0% APR because they pay the interest on the loan. Some numbers: if the dealer borrowed the 18.5k at 3% for 72 months and then turned around and offered it to the customer  at 0% APR then the dealer will spend $1700 in interest. For my friends this means that the dealer only made $4.8k over market value on the car. (Note that the dealer would've already been making a hefty profit at the car's market value)

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1930 on: April 13, 2015, 10:24:36 AM »
Yeah, good rule of thumb: if your APR is less than the rate of inflation, the "savings" are probably priced into the purchase. 0% APR is common enough on new cars if you pay sticker price, because (duh) it's conditioned on overpaying by thousands. Rare to find it on anything else, and if you did, the same caveat would apply.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1931 on: April 13, 2015, 11:36:51 AM »
Yeah, good rule of thumb: if your APR is less than the rate of inflation, the "savings" are probably priced into the purchase. 0% APR is common enough on new cars if you pay sticker price, because (duh) it's conditioned on overpaying by thousands. Rare to find it on anything else, and if you did, the same caveat would apply.

That's why it's better to agree to terrible financing (10%) for a really low purchase price and then pay it off immediately. 

merula

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1932 on: April 13, 2015, 02:05:07 PM »
Yeah, good rule of thumb: if your APR is less than the rate of inflation, the "savings" are probably priced into the purchase. 0% APR is common enough on new cars if you pay sticker price, because (duh) it's conditioned on overpaying by thousands. Rare to find it on anything else, and if you did, the same caveat would apply.

Highly possible. I got a "good" sticker price based on my comparison shopping, KBB and Consumer Reports, but it was a new car so I know now that I was overpaying on that alone.

However, I got the distinct impression at the dealership that the advertised interest rate was something they almost never did. When I asked for it, I was told "Let's just see what you qualify for", and the lady (seemingly) couldn't get over her shock that I had a credit score good enough to qualify. It could have been a scheme to make me think I was getting a good deal, but it seemed like she was honestly confused and shocked.

I'm leaning towards thinking that the advertised interest rate "for well qualified buyers" is actually part of a bait-and-switch. They get you into the dealership thinking it'll be cheap, get you to fall in love with a car, and then break it to you that your interest rate will be several times the promo rate. But in order for it to not actually be an illegal bait-and-switch, they have to offer it to some people.

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1933 on: April 13, 2015, 02:13:49 PM »
They get you into the dealership thinking it'll be cheap, get you to fall in love with a car, and then break it to you that your interest rate will be several times the promo rate. But in order for it to not actually be an illegal bait-and-switch, they have to offer it to some people.

My thought for all advertised things is that the biggest thing is to get you in the door. That is generally the first aim as once that happens, that means that the business has a good shot at getting your money. As far as I understand from business law classes is that with advertising, courts have declared ads to be an "opportunity to make an offer," though I may have gotten the wording wrong. So there is no obligation to actually fulfill the contract unless there is a specification like "until 2 pm," or "while supplies last," or "first 5 customers." In that case then there is a reasonable expectation, and so the company is expected to fulfill the advertised price. By stating, "well qualified," they can then state that qualified means a credit score of 800, which very few people have, including those like me that pay off their bills in full every single time.

naloj

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1934 on: April 13, 2015, 02:52:39 PM »
I'm leaning towards thinking that the advertised interest rate "for well qualified buyers" is actually part of a bait-and-switch. They get you into the dealership thinking it'll be cheap, get you to fall in love with a car, and then break it to you that your interest rate will be several times the promo rate. But in order for it to not actually be an illegal bait-and-switch, they have to offer it to some people.

You can usually look what "well qualified buyers" means on the manufacturer's website.  Usually it's a credit score of 740 or higher which shouldn't be all that rare.

r3dt4rget

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1935 on: April 13, 2015, 07:03:08 PM »
Context: A 20-something mother of 3 is on Facebook and shared an article about paying child support (had kids with 2 different men she is no longer with)

Status: "... Things can really be tight at times since I don't get child support but if it's something my babies really want to do, I find a way. I would rather go without before telling my kids no when it comes to something they want..."

Next day's status: "I can not wait to get my new car!!!!"

Reason for selling old working car and getting new car? "I have 3 kids now and I need something with good gas mileage for work." She is considering a Ford Edge SUV (21 city/30 hwy)

crispy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1936 on: April 13, 2015, 07:16:16 PM »
A couple we know went through bankruptcy and foreclosure about three years ago. I was hoping it would be a wake-up call for them to get their finances back in order, but it hasn't been.  The fancy vacations and eating out constantly is still going on.  They have also started hanging out with a group that makes serious money and spends it accordingly so I think they are feeling some pressure to keep up.

Anyway, today they posted a picture on Facebook of the house they put a contract on which is twice the size and price of the one they lost just three years ago.  My mind is officially boggled.

Update on this!  Apparently, the other house didn't work out, but they are closing on another house in a couple of week.  I don't know the size and cost, but I do know it's a pricy neighborhood with big houses so I would assume it's still close to double in price of their old house.  I actually haven't talked to them in quite a while, but I started getting texts last week telling me about the new house and asking if we would be available to help them move.  To quote Phoebe Buffay, "I wish I could but I just don't want to."

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1937 on: April 13, 2015, 08:38:51 PM »
Yeah, good rule of thumb: if your APR is less than the rate of inflation, the "savings" are probably priced into the purchase. 0% APR is common enough on new cars if you pay sticker price, because (duh) it's conditioned on overpaying by thousands. Rare to find it on anything else, and if you did, the same caveat would apply.

I used to work at a big box electronics retailer, and at the time we offered 0% interest if you signed up and were approved for the company credit card. The way it worked was we would lose a certain % of "profit" off the sale immediately which paid the interest on the loan. On most items we normally financed, like TVs and such, there was enough of a profit margin to make this worthwhile. Other purchases, like computers, run at such low margin to begin with that sometimes we would "lose" money on the sale. Those cases were rather rare because when a customer gets financing they are usually convinced to get all kinds of extras to boost up the profit on the transaction.

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1938 on: April 14, 2015, 12:01:19 AM »
I have a fb friend who constantly posts pics and vids of him eating out at Japanese and korean BBQ joints nonstop to the point of annoying. He also posted pics of a couple new condos and made some comment along the lines of how one of his goals is to buy each of his kids a house. Now, I dont know what his salary is and it could very well be over $200k and he seems shat thrifty but also seems like a pretty big spender when it comes down to it... Who knows, maybe he has an overabundance of money after the 401k, IRA, HSA, espp, etc but I wouldn't be surprised if he lives paycheck to paycheck either. He introduced me to peer to peer investments as well... Something I tried once, unsuccessfully, and never went back to again. And his wife was into selling energy drinks and other products at some point too... And maybe still is....Hmmmmm

JLee

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1939 on: April 14, 2015, 10:02:23 AM »
I saw someone post a picture of "11 month anniversary flowers" the other day.

Who the hell has an "11 month anniversary" and buys flowers for it!?

Khaetra

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1940 on: April 14, 2015, 10:23:24 AM »
I saw someone post a picture of "11 month anniversary flowers" the other day.

Who the hell has an "11 month anniversary" and buys flowers for it!?

You would be surprised.  I know a couple women who would get up in arms if they didn't get dinner/flowers for a ONE MONTH anniversary!  Don't act shocked, but they are still single.

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1941 on: April 14, 2015, 10:42:33 AM »
I saw someone post a picture of "11 month anniversary flowers" the other day.

Who the hell has an "11 month anniversary" and buys flowers for it!?

suckas

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1942 on: April 14, 2015, 10:48:08 AM »
I saw someone post a picture of "11 month anniversary flowers" the other day.

Who the hell has an "11 month anniversary" and buys flowers for it!?

You would be surprised.  I know a couple women who would get up in arms if they didn't get dinner/flowers for a ONE MONTH anniversary!  Don't act shocked, but they are still single.

The one-monthiversary was a big thing in high school and college. Also 6-months.
Never heard of celebrating 11...

Cookie78

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1943 on: April 14, 2015, 11:09:40 AM »
I saw someone post a picture of "11 month anniversary flowers" the other day.

Who the hell has an "11 month anniversary" and buys flowers for it!?

You would be surprised.  I know a couple women who would get up in arms if they didn't get dinner/flowers for a ONE MONTH anniversary!  Don't act shocked, but they are still single.

The one-monthiversary was a big thing in high school and college. Also 6-months.
Never heard of celebrating 11...

I have a friend in his late 30s or early 40s who was excitedly telling my about his 7 month anniversary a few months back. Don't understand! I barely remember the yearly anniversaries, and certainly don't require flowers.

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1944 on: April 14, 2015, 11:29:56 AM »
God damn, what a stupid bitch. I'd never forgive that shit.

MOD NOTE: Forum rule #1.
Wait... really? Why?
Should I rephrase?

*second try*

The very idea of someone supposedly in a lifelong relationship based on trust and mutual respect committing such a shameless and shortsighted act of betrayal fills me with fucking rage.

If I were personally subjected to such treatment, I would permanently lose all respect for her, and I would never forgive that betrayal. Anyone who would make such a choice deserves neither respect nor forgiveness.


Better?

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1945 on: April 14, 2015, 11:42:27 AM »
I saw someone post a picture of "11 month anniversary flowers" the other day.

Who the hell has an "11 month anniversary" and buys flowers for it!?

You would be surprised.  I know a couple women who would get up in arms if they didn't get dinner/flowers for a ONE MONTH anniversary!  Don't act shocked, but they are still single.

I think of one month as somewhat a decent deal, especially when I was in high school. Now I haven't done anything in it, but to me it was a set in the direction of actually being a couple as opposed to having gone on a few dates.

The one-monthiversary was a big thing in high school and college. Also 6-months.
Never heard of celebrating 11...

zephyr911

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1946 on: April 14, 2015, 11:57:34 AM »
I continually object to calling anything other than an anniversary an anniversary, for two reasons:

1) The word has a specific meaning. Latin roots and all. Months and weeks do not constitute anniversaries. (I get that I'm just that weird pedantic grammarnazi fuck who actually cares, but if nobody demanded precision in language, none of us would understand each other)

2) These shorter periods only carry weight with kids and people who consistently fail in relationships. Even when I was consistently failing in relationships, I always felt like it was dumb to make such an issue of every tiny passage of time without a breakup.

merula

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1947 on: April 14, 2015, 12:40:54 PM »
I continually object to calling anything other than an anniversary an anniversary, for two reasons:

1) The word has a specific meaning. Latin roots and all. Months and weeks do not constitute anniversaries. (I get that I'm just that weird pedantic grammarnazi fuck who actually cares, but if nobody demanded precision in language, none of us would understand each other)

2) These shorter periods only carry weight with kids and people who consistently fail in relationships. Even when I was consistently failing in relationships, I always felt like it was dumb to make such an issue of every tiny passage of time without a breakup.

So, combining 1 and 2, you expect the chronologically and emotionally immature to realize the error of calling something an "eleven month year turning" and switch to "umdecimensiversary"?

MgoSam

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1948 on: April 14, 2015, 12:48:07 PM »
I continually object to calling anything other than an anniversary an anniversary, for two reasons:

1) The word has a specific meaning. Latin roots and all. Months and weeks do not constitute anniversaries. (I get that I'm just that weird pedantic grammarnazi fuck who actually cares, but if nobody demanded precision in language, none of us would understand each other)

2) These shorter periods only carry weight with kids and people who consistently fail in relationships. Even when I was consistently failing in relationships, I always felt like it was dumb to make such an issue of every tiny passage of time without a breakup.

So, combining 1 and 2, you expect the chronologically and emotionally immature to realize the error of calling something an "eleven month year turning" and switch to "umdecimensiversary"?

A very merry unbirthday to you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdsZT7WKjW8

trailrated

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1949 on: April 14, 2015, 12:59:24 PM »
God damn, what a stupid bitch. I'd never forgive that shit.

MOD NOTE: Forum rule #1.
Wait... really? Why?
Should I rephrase?

*second try*

The very idea of someone supposedly in a lifelong relationship based on trust and mutual respect committing such a shameless and shortsighted act of betrayal fills me with fucking rage.

If I were personally subjected to such treatment, I would permanently lose all respect for her, and I would never forgive that betrayal. Anyone who would make such a choice deserves neither respect nor forgiveness.


Better?

well said