Author Topic: Overheard on Facebook  (Read 3055487 times)

CabinetGuy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1000 on: November 02, 2014, 07:38:27 AM »
"Guess who just got a Q3?!"  Husband posting a pic of his wife in new car.

Guess who just turned in their leased CRV to do so.  But it's a "company lease program" so it's "really affordable."  And your company is keeping you perpetually in need of a paycheck...can't you see that?

Granted, they both make a ton of money combined, and they're young (early thirties.)  but they both work in a high stress industry.  Yes, I'm jealous.  But God damn it, why are you telling me that you want to retire ASAP in Costs Rica, but keep doing shit like this?

Oh well.

golden1

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1001 on: November 03, 2014, 12:47:56 PM »
Not Facebook, but a couple of posts on my mommy message boards are making me feel a bit pained.

1) One thread is asking about the best "budget" coat that someone could buy for winter with the tagline "Under $500".  I mentioned that my coat was $60 at Kohls.  The response was that they live in New England so they need something really warm.  Ummmm I live in New England too.  My $60 coat is too warm most of the time. 

2) Another mom is freaking out because her van broke and she needs $2400 to fix it ASAP.  She has 7 kids and needs it to drive them to school.  She is debating posting a gofundme to raise money for it.  This is the same mom that freaked out a few months ago when they did an escrow adjustment on her mortgage and found that she needed to cough up $3000 that she didn't have.   I don't understand having any sort of emergency fund or at least a open line of credit so that this type of emergency didn't cause huge panic. 

resy

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1002 on: November 03, 2014, 09:55:11 PM »
Not Facebook, but a couple of posts on my mommy message boards are making me feel a bit pained.

1) One thread is asking about the best "budget" coat that someone could buy for winter with the tagline "Under $500".  I mentioned that my coat was $60 at Kohls.  The response was that they live in New England so they need something really warm.  Ummmm I live in New England too.  My $60 coat is too warm most of the time. 

2) Another mom is freaking out because her van broke and she needs $2400 to fix it ASAP.  She has 7 kids and needs it to drive them to school.  She is debating posting a gofundme to raise money for it.  This is the same mom that freaked out a few months ago when they did an escrow adjustment on her mortgage and found that she needed to cough up $3000 that she didn't have.   I don't understand having any sort of emergency fund or at least a open line of credit so that this type of emergency didn't cause huge panic.
hmm... for some reason, a person that has 7 kids doesn't strike me as much of a planner...

AlanStache

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1003 on: November 04, 2014, 05:22:45 AM »
Not Facebook, but a couple of posts on my mommy message boards are making me feel a bit pained.

1) One thread is asking about the best "budget" coat that someone could buy for winter with the tagline "Under $500".  I mentioned that my coat was $60 at Kohls.  The response was that they live in New England so they need something really warm.  Ummmm I live in New England too.  My $60 coat is too warm most of the time. 

2) Another mom is freaking out because her van broke and she needs $2400 to fix it ASAP.  She has 7 kids and needs it to drive them to school.  She is debating posting a gofundme to raise money for it.  This is the same mom that freaked out a few months ago when they did an escrow adjustment on her mortgage and found that she needed to cough up $3000 that she didn't have.   I don't understand having any sort of emergency fund or at least a open line of credit so that this type of emergency didn't cause huge panic.
hmm... for some reason, a person that has 7 kids doesn't strike me as much of a planner...

7 kids: Just as likely they very much planed it.  Sat next to a woman on a plane one time with a few month old kid, she had been pregnant or just delivered for like the last 10+ years.  Got the impression it was a religious thing.

VirginiaBob

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1004 on: November 04, 2014, 05:32:11 AM »
Not Facebook, but a couple of posts on my mommy message boards are making me feel a bit pained.

1) One thread is asking about the best "budget" coat that someone could buy for winter with the tagline "Under $500".  I mentioned that my coat was $60 at Kohls.  The response was that they live in New England so they need something really warm.  Ummmm I live in New England too.  My $60 coat is too warm most of the time. 

2) Another mom is freaking out because her van broke and she needs $2400 to fix it ASAP.  She has 7 kids and needs it to drive them to school.  She is debating posting a gofundme to raise money for it.  This is the same mom that freaked out a few months ago when they did an escrow adjustment on her mortgage and found that she needed to cough up $3000 that she didn't have.   I don't understand having any sort of emergency fund or at least a open line of credit so that this type of emergency didn't cause huge panic.
hmm... for some reason, a person that has 7 kids doesn't strike me as much of a planner...

7 kids: Just as likely they very much planed it.  Sat next to a woman on a plane one time with a few month old kid, she had been pregnant or just delivered for like the last 10+ years.  Got the impression it was a religious thing.

7 kids is crazy - I think about 4 to 5 kids is the cutoff where you go from "family" to "traveling carnival". 

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1005 on: November 04, 2014, 05:54:45 AM »
7 kids with 5 fathers:  poor impulse control.

7 kids from 1 father:  alternative lifestyle.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1006 on: November 04, 2014, 06:40:55 AM »
7 kids with 5 fathers:  poor impulse control.

7 kids from 1 father:  alternative lifestyle.

haha, agreed. I try not to rip on people with lots of kids or make stupid jokes about how they "must not know where babies come from." I know plenty of large Catholic families and trust me, they know. definitely not a choice I would make (I think I would lose my fucking mind somewhere around 5 kids) but hey, they're not my kids.

SisterX

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1007 on: November 04, 2014, 11:17:46 AM »
7 kids with 5 fathers:  poor impulse control.

7 kids from 1 father:  alternative lifestyle.

haha, agreed. I try not to rip on people with lots of kids or make stupid jokes about how they "must not know where babies come from." I know plenty of large Catholic families and trust me, they know. definitely not a choice I would make (I think I would lose my fucking mind somewhere around 5 kids) but hey, they're not my kids.

I still reserve the right to find your life rather sad if you feel that your only purpose in being on this planet is to breed as much as possible.  Having 7 kids because you love kids: wonderful.  Having 7 kids because your religion tells you you "have to": I'll feel bad for your kids.

myteafix

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1008 on: November 04, 2014, 11:42:36 AM »
Ah, shit, a perpetually-broke family friend just announced via Facebook that she has become a Jamberry "sales consultant".

At least when her sister was selling that Pampered Chef crap we got some decent stoneware out of it.

I'm tired of seeing my friends turn to the ways of the consultant. (A lot of Scentsy and Thirty-One.) And, even worse, only hearing from them when they're having a sales party or offering new discounts. :/

galliver

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1009 on: November 04, 2014, 11:55:55 AM »
7 kids with 5 fathers:  poor impulse control.

7 kids from 1 father:  alternative lifestyle.

haha, agreed. I try not to rip on people with lots of kids or make stupid jokes about how they "must not know where babies come from." I know plenty of large Catholic families and trust me, they know. definitely not a choice I would make (I think I would lose my fucking mind somewhere around 5 kids) but hey, they're not my kids.

I still reserve the right to find your life rather sad if you feel that your only purpose in being on this planet is to breed as much as possible.  Having 7 kids because you love kids: wonderful.  Having 7 kids because your religion tells you you "have to": I'll feel bad for your kids.

Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

Sylly

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1010 on: November 04, 2014, 12:22:36 PM »
Having 7 kids because you love kids: wonderful.  Having 7 kids because your religion tells you you "have to": I'll feel bad for your kids.

Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

I don't argue that society as a whole may be better when children aren't pigeon-holed into any traditional roles. But, is it such a terrible thing if the individuals themselves are happy? Who are we to judge?

It's like being perfectly happy with dial-up modem,  just because you don't know any better, even when your neighbors have DSL.

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1011 on: November 04, 2014, 01:31:42 PM »
I still reserve the right to find your life rather sad if you feel that your only purpose in being on this planet is to breed as much as possible.  Having 7 kids because you love kids: wonderful.  Having 7 kids because your religion tells you you "have to": I'll feel bad for your kids.

I don't buy this either/or you are trying to set up.  I know lots of people that have big families, in part because they think it's the right thing to do, and also because it is awesome and fulfilling. 

"My only purpose in existence is to breed."  -- a miserable person unfamiliar with any major pro-family religious tradition.

"I was meant for parenthood and I am doing what I was made to do." -- a happy person who has embraced a pro-family religious tradition.

The difference in the language is that the first one denies a person's humanity while the second one celebrates it.

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1012 on: November 04, 2014, 01:35:30 PM »
Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

I'm a traditional religious person (a male) and I think the domestic arts are a lot more meaningful and fulfilling than being a fighter pilot.  Should I share this preference with my children (of both sexes)?  Is it only insidious when I share it with daughters?  If so, why?

frugalnacho

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1013 on: November 04, 2014, 02:01:48 PM »
Having 7 kids because you love kids: wonderful.  Having 7 kids because your religion tells you you "have to": I'll feel bad for your kids.

Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

I don't argue that society as a whole may be better when children aren't pigeon-holed into any traditional roles. But, is it such a terrible thing if the individuals themselves are happy? Who are we to judge?

It's like being perfectly happy with dial-up modem,  just because you don't know any better, even when your neighbors have DSL.

Lol.  No one was ever happy with a dial-up modem, even when dial-up modems were cutting edge.

galliver

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1014 on: November 04, 2014, 02:14:32 PM »
Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

I'm a traditional religious person (a male) and I think the domestic arts are a lot more meaningful and fulfilling than being a fighter pilot.  Should I share this preference with my children (of both sexes)?  Is it only insidious when I share it with daughters?  If so, why?

The insidious aspect is essentially teaching people to be happy with their limited options in life, in ignorance of other options, and denying them the agency to change their social status.

"Fighter pilot" was a random traditionally non-female profession that popped into my head. Since I think "good people raising their babies right" is more important than dropping bombs as well, let's change it to engineer, or surgeon, or legislator. I think all children (girls and boys) need to be taught to take care of themselves and their environment (cooking, cleaning, etc), care and nurture those around them, and pursue intellectual growth and service to the community (i.e. employment) with their particular talents. If you agree with me, then you don't really fall under the "traditional" label you claim, as traditionally boys are encouraged to pursue education and employment far more than girls, who are taught the caring and nurturing in preparation for being mothers and homemakers (in some societies women also do the lion's share of farm work).

I'm a non-religious woman raised by a stay at home mother. I know that being a parent and homemaker is an important, full-time job. But I think women and men are equally capable of it, and every couple can decide how they want to structure their family. I believe that alongside the satisfaction of washed dishes and floors, women deserve the satisfaction of a problem solved, a customer satisfied, and a presentation well-done. And if they give this up, they will do so knowingly.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1015 on: November 04, 2014, 07:33:21 PM »
Ah, shit, a perpetually-broke family friend just announced via Facebook that she has become a Jamberry "sales consultant".

At least when her sister was selling that Pampered Chef crap we got some decent stoneware out of it.

I'm tired of seeing my friends turn to the ways of the consultant. (A lot of Scentsy and Thirty-One.) And, even worse, only hearing from them when they're having a sales party or offering new discounts. :/

The horror -- you made me google "Thirty one" and I can never take that back.
Seriously,  what is the point of those items and a whole company / sales line devoted to them?  I must have missed the memo, because "I DON'T GET IT". 

SisterX

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1016 on: November 04, 2014, 07:59:01 PM »
I don't buy this either/or you are trying to set up.  I know lots of people that have big families, in part because they think it's the right thing to do, and also because it is awesome and fulfilling. 

"My only purpose in existence is to breed."  -- a miserable person unfamiliar with any major pro-family religious tradition.

"I was meant for parenthood and I am doing what I was made to do." -- a happy person who has embraced a pro-family religious tradition.

The difference in the language is that the first one denies a person's humanity while the second one celebrates it.

HAHAHA!!  Laughed so hard at the section I bolded.  I am: one of 4 kids.  The difference being, my parents didn't have us all because they're religious, they had us (and let us know they had us) because they wanted a big, awesome family.  My best friend growing up was one of 11 kids.  Neither parent was happy, either with so many kids ("mouths to feed"), nor were they happy with each other because the constant stress of so many kids was too much for their relationship.  However, being good Catholics, they will never divorce because that's a sin.  I still see them sometimes.  They look far older than they should, and they rarely smile.  Almost none of their children has embraced their philosophy on breeding, and I can understand why.
I also grew up in an area with a LOT of Mormon and Catholic families.  With very few exceptions, at least one partner in the couple was miserable and felt trapped by their religiously defined roles, whether they cared to voice their dissatisfaction or not.  (And yes, it can be quite obvious to bystanders.)  Maybe the husband wanted to stay home but had to be The Provider.  The mom wanted to work but had to do too much domestic labor, spent too much time pregnant and raising children to advance in a career.  If the husband/religion even let her work outside the home.
The happy families I knew?  They all would agree with your second statement.  But that wasn't the majority.
I really don't have a problem with people having large families because that's what they want to do.  More power to you!  I DO have a problem with using religion as a reason to do so, because it's inevitably tied up with misogyny and keeping women from having options.  It's that someone outside of the family is defining their choices for them, and using fear of God as a reason.  That's a shitty thing to do to another human being, and it's always, always men who benefit from that status quo.
I will also never consider it "pro-family" to have someone who's not part of the family unit define what you should and should not do, or what's best for your family, even if it's your religion telling you what to do.  It's your family, you get to decide what's best. 
Lastly, it is the ultimate acknowledgement of one's humanity to point out that they have a choice in whether or not to produce offspring.  One of the amazing, wonderful things which differentiates humans from other animals is that we have used our brains to give ourselves many choices: choices in how we live, where we live, and how many children we have.  And for good reason!  Do not forget that childbearing is still painful and dangerous for women, even in the first world and with the best medical technologies available.  Things still go wrong far too often.
Frankly, I'd be seriously pissed off at any god who made us to have the sole, or at least overriding, purpose of continuing the species.  What a crappy reason for existence.  No, I think we have such large brains because we are capable of doing so much more.  Do not get me wrong, becoming a mother was one of the best things I've ever done.  However, you will never convince me that that is my purpose in life.  There's so much more to me and my life than just that.  Is it wrong of me to be sad for others who've been convinced to sell their idea of themselves so short?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 08:58:09 PM by SisterX »

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1017 on: November 04, 2014, 10:02:59 PM »
Read today on FB: My friends are generally not an issue, but I am on a couple of message boards.  This one...just made me shake my head:

"I am asking for everyone's help as a lot of you may know recently there was a power outage due to a lightening strike that caused major loss to several families on the block, including us.  We lost our OVEN / MICROWAVE / 2 X- BOXES / STEREO SYSTEM / ALL THREE HOME PHONES / AND THREE FLAT SCREEN TV'S !! Due to our situation we can't afford to buy what we lost. Electric company won't replace without receipts, and not even full amount!  So if you have any of the items above that you wish to donate or sell at reasonable price please help"

 
I can understand the micro and oven.

But the rest? I have one home phone and one TV.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1018 on: November 04, 2014, 11:21:51 PM »
Read today on FB: My friends are generally not an issue, but I am on a couple of message boards.  This one...just made me shake my head:

"I am asking for everyone's help as a lot of you may know recently there was a power outage due to a lightening strike that caused major loss to several families on the block, including us.  We lost our OVEN / MICROWAVE / 2 X- BOXES / STEREO SYSTEM / ALL THREE HOME PHONES / AND THREE FLAT SCREEN TV'S !! Due to our situation we can't afford to buy what we lost. Electric company won't replace without receipts, and not even full amount!  So if you have any of the items above that you wish to donate or sell at reasonable price please help"

 
I can understand the micro and oven.

But the rest? I have one home phone and one TV.

Flat screen tvs are just called tvs now

Caella

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1019 on: November 05, 2014, 06:11:46 AM »

...


HAHAHA!!  Laughed so hard at the section I bolded.  I am: one of 4 kids.  .....

If this was reddit, i would have given you gold, SisterX.

Couldn't agree more, really.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1020 on: November 05, 2014, 07:00:13 AM »
I'm amazed at all the store bought Halloween costumes on my FB feed.  While I consider the cute pictures of people's kids in costume a part of my toll for not complaining about their snap happy ways the rest of the year, it shocks me that so many people pay 20-30 bucks a pop for something that'll be worn less than 1 day.

The best one so far is homemade - the parent dressed in a white coverall suit from the hardware store with red tape, then  dressed their kid in black.  Bowling with a toddler!

We did this, but we have a huge, fun party every year. And I'll re-sell the costume used on eBay to minimize some of my costs. But then again, we plan on halloween costumes by putting money away each month throughout the year and it's a big event with all of our friends/family. Definitely worth it.

eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1021 on: November 05, 2014, 07:03:49 AM »
Ah, shit, a perpetually-broke family friend just announced via Facebook that she has become a Jamberry "sales consultant".

At least when her sister was selling that Pampered Chef crap we got some decent stoneware out of it.

I'm tired of seeing my friends turn to the ways of the consultant. (A lot of Scentsy and Thirty-One.) And, even worse, only hearing from them when they're having a sales party or offering new discounts. :/

I think you're misconstruing "Facebook friend" with "real life friend." And if anyone starts doing that on my FB feed, deleted. I'm sick of their crap and I don't really care.

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1022 on: November 05, 2014, 07:15:18 AM »
I really don't have a problem with people having large families because that's what they want to do.  More power to you!  I DO have a problem with using religion as a reason to do so,
It sounds like you're saying, have a big family if you want to, but only if your desire to have a big family is sincere.

I don't get how religion gets equated with insincerity.  I, for one, am sincerely religious and I want a big family, for reasons that include religion.  In other words, my religion is part of my worldview.  Hmmm.
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because it's inevitably tied up with misogyny and keeping women from having options.
Religion will generally tell you that a mother who is personally raising her children in a loving home is the most important thing that is going on in a family household.  So yeah, the option of dropping the kids off at daycare so she can go play tennis and spend a few hours at Nordstroms is discouraged, as is having a second income for other-than-dire reasons.  I mean, that is religion's thing -- it is about providing moral guidance to encourage human thriving.  Religion is going to tell you that A is better than B.
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It's that someone outside of the family is defining their choices for them, and using fear of God as a reason.
Any religion worth its salt is going to have something to say about how people should live.  If you as a religious person feel like you are being controlled, it's because you don't believe in that religion.  So, maybe find a new Church or Synagogue or whatever?  I mean, why would you feel like your religious leader is controlling if he's getting up there and promoting things you strongly believe in?  Again, you seem to assume insincerity.
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That's a shitty thing to do to another human being, and it's always, always men who benefit from that status quo.
Benefit how?

In a traditional mother/father setup, the man leaves the home all day to work at a job while the woman takes care of the home and raises the children.  This mostly benefits the man if you are assuming a secular world-view where public social status and worldly success at a career are the most important things, while home-making is a necessary evil.  But consider that in a religious world-view, the welfare of children takes priority over the day-to-day satisfaction of the adults, so the homemaking role (in particular the parenting that a homemaker is able to do) is far more important than career success, so the working parent is the one in a supporting role to the real action!

To head off the objections that I see coming:  I don't have any particular problem with a reversal of traditional parenting roles, if it makes sense for a couple.  I'd love to be a stay-at-home dad!  Unfortunately the economic comparative advantage runs against me:  I'm better at earning money than my spouse and she is better at parenting.  But I truly don't think this separates me from being able to speak about traditional religious values from a first-person perspective.  The reality is, if people set out to create single-income families, the father is going to end up working a majority of the time due to human nature and economics.  Granted, economic changes are moving us in the opposite direction.  There are genuinely more families today where it makes sense to have a stay-at-home dad, and I expect that trend to continue, and not with any regret.  In fact I'm green with envy.  But my purpose here is to say that there's nothing wrong with stay-at-home moms, and there's nothing wrong with having religious reasons for the choices you make.

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1023 on: November 05, 2014, 07:29:22 AM »
I think all children (girls and boys) need to be taught to take care of themselves and their environment (cooking, cleaning, etc), care and nurture those around them, and pursue intellectual growth and service to the community (i.e. employment) with their particular talents. If you agree with me, then you don't really fall under the "traditional" label you claim, as traditionally boys are encouraged to pursue education and employment far more than girls, who are taught the caring and nurturing in preparation for being mothers and homemakers (in some societies women also do the lion's share of farm work).

I'm not convinced its possible to raise your children without some bias regarding their future choices in life.  Obviously you can over-do it, and I'm not saying people don't go too far.  I'm sure there are old-fashioned folks that discourage their daughters from achieving too much career success.  There's also professional women who basically get a free pass to strongly discourage their daughters from being homemakers.  Plenty of well-off people would discourage their kids from skipping college to go into the skilled trades (or military service).  Some lower-class families discourage education as well.

A too-controlling parent can prevent their children from making an informed choice, but there has to be a limit to the amount of exposure you owe your children to their options.  I mean, do you really expect non-religious people to go out of their way to make sure their kids know they can sell all their belongings and join a monastary?

mm1970

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1024 on: November 05, 2014, 08:56:18 AM »
The insidious aspect is essentially teaching people to be happy with their limited options in life, in ignorance of other options, and denying them the agency to change their social status.
Something about that statement strikes me as odd and it might because I've seen a number of articles (like this one) about how having too many options can also make people unhappy due to decision fatigue and the like. By all means someone should not be held back from doing something they want to do and they should know what their options are, but on the same token, there also needs to be an understanding that for a lot of high profile jobs there are usually more people that want the job than are actually needed (i.e. President of the United States, one needed every four years) and even for jobs that aren't as high profile you might not be able achieve them due to personal limitations that aren't imposed by social constructs (e.g. intelligence, artistic talent, etc.).

I don't know, it's a complicated subject but it really does seem like sometimes when you talk to someone and they are unhappy it is because they think if they had made a different life decision that they would be happier than they currently are. This kind of plays in to the MMM philosophy of being happy with what you have and not trying to "keep up with the Jones" with regards to material stuff.
It's kind of an optimism, pessimism, and realism thing, isn't it?

Not only decisions, but capabilities, and options.

You know, I was a poor kid. People in my family didn't go to college.  But my teachers since elementary talked like I was going to college (I was #1 in my class).  So, I always planned to go to college (despite my father telling me on my 16th birthday that I should get married, have babies, stay home and have "an easy life").  Like that was going to happen - I was a nerd who hadn't even dated by then.  Apparently he said that to all my older sisters too.  At least he was consistent!

So I went to college (an expensive one to boot), joined ROTC, got a 3 year scholarship (didn't even know enough to apply for a 4 year one).  Nearing graduation, I had this conversation with a rich-kid classmate, a C student (his dad was a doctor).  Note, I also had jobs during the school year and summers so that I could eat.

RC: Must suck for you to have to go into the military
Me: Well, no
RC: you don't have choices like we do!
Me: It's the agreement I made
RC: But our starting salary is $40k per year, you are making half that!
Me: Well, after 5 years we'll be equal
RC: But it still must suck
Me: Look.  I'm lucky that I even made it to college. Nobody in family has gone, and we don't have any money.  The Navy was my ticket.  And I owe them time.  I'm lucky to have this opportunity.

It was acceptance of my life.

I think part of mustachianism has to be optimism, and has to be realism.  You can reach for the stars, but honestly, not everyone can do everything.

Gin1984

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1025 on: November 05, 2014, 09:08:19 AM »
Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

I'm a traditional religious person (a male) and I think the domestic arts are a lot more meaningful and fulfilling than being a fighter pilot. Should I share this preference with my children (of both sexes)? Is it only insidious when I share it with daughters?  If so, why?
You can share it all you want, but if you judge or harm your children for thinking you are nuts and wanting/enjoying a career,  or if you or actively harm your children's chances then I am going to feel bad for your kids.

Threshkin

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1026 on: November 05, 2014, 09:11:53 AM »
Foamy!

justajane

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1027 on: November 05, 2014, 09:14:38 AM »
PloddingInsight - I understood your perspective, even if I don't entirely agree with it, that is, until you started pontificating about tennis lessons and Nordstroms visits. This leads me to conclude that you have no actual perception of the myriad of real reasons why women decide to work or to put their children in daycare, part time or full. I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise, since you already said your wife is better at the parenting bit.

You remind me of the husbands at my church who have made it perfectly clear to their SAHM wives that there is no money in the budget for them to spend a couple hundred dollars a month to put their kids in a Parent's Day Out program just so they can have a much needed break. I actually had a conversation with a woman in nursery who had it clearly ingrained in her that paying for five hours a week free time was too expensive, even though she was emotionally and physically exhausted. I guess if she was "better" at earning money, she could buy her free time, right?   

And keep in mind, my perspective on your thoughts is coming from a stay at home mom who attends a conservative Christian church.

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1028 on: November 05, 2014, 09:20:19 AM »
Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

I'm a traditional religious person (a male) and I think the domestic arts are a lot more meaningful and fulfilling than being a fighter pilot. Should I share this preference with my children (of both sexes)? Is it only insidious when I share it with daughters?  If so, why?
You can share it all you want, but if you judge or harm your children for thinking you are nuts and wanting/enjoying a career,  or if you or actively harm your children's chances then I am going to feel bad for your kids.
Fine.  That's not the proposition I was responding to.

Malaysia41

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1029 on: November 05, 2014, 09:23:14 AM »
Wait, I come here to read about stupid shit people write on Facebook. I'm not getting my fix!

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1030 on: November 05, 2014, 09:26:17 AM »
PloddingInsight - I understood your perspective, even if I don't entirely agree with it, that is, until you started pontificating about tennis lessons and Nordstroms visits. This leads me to conclude that you have no actual perception of the myriad of real reasons why women decide to work or to put their children in daycare, part time or full. I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise, since you already said your wife is better at the parenting bit.

You remind me of the husbands at my church who have made it perfectly clear to their SAHM wives that there is no money in the budget for them to spend a couple hundred dollars a month to put their kids in a Parent's Day Out program just so they can have a much needed break. I actually had a conversation with a woman in nursery who had it clearly ingrained in her that paying for five hours a week free time was too expensive, even though she was emotionally and physically exhausted. I guess if she was "better" at earning money, she could buy her free time, right?   

And keep in mind, my perspective on your thoughts is coming from a stay at home mom who attends a conservative Christian church.
Chip on your shoulder, huh?

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1031 on: November 05, 2014, 09:29:25 AM »
Wait, I come here to read about stupid shit people write on Facebook. I'm not getting my fix!

+1

More FB stories!

Gin1984

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1032 on: November 05, 2014, 09:33:23 AM »
Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

I'm a traditional religious person (a male) and I think the domestic arts are a lot more meaningful and fulfilling than being a fighter pilot. Should I share this preference with my children (of both sexes)? Is it only insidious when I share it with daughters?  If so, why?
You can share it all you want, but if you judge or harm your children for thinking you are nuts and wanting/enjoying a career,  or if you or actively harm your children's chances then I am going to feel bad for your kids.
Fine.  That's not the proposition I was responding to.
Then  I am confused because that is what the poster was referring to.  Raising a child in a way that actively pushes a certain gender towards the domestic arts and actively harms their chances by raising them to believe that can't or should not want it.

justajane

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1033 on: November 05, 2014, 09:36:11 AM »
[blah, blah blah, my retort to someone that I would probably never interact with in real life.....]
Chip on your shoulder, huh?

Not at all. Just very relieved that I am married to someone who doesn't have traditional (a.k.a. stifling) perceptions that often don't take into account the diversity of human experience and relationships.

But let's get back to the more fun task at hand, namely venting about Facebook posts.

I have a Jamberry nails Facebook friend, and let me tell you, MLMs like that are a strange subculture. She apparently has the best job in the world, gets to travel to awesome places, works for a company that is the most charitable company she has ever encountered, and makes tons and tons of money. At least that's what she tells me and all her hundreds of friends on a regular basis.

Malaysia41

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1034 on: November 05, 2014, 09:45:30 AM »
So I popped over to FB to see if I could dig up something, anything.  ... this is what I see:

"Homeless child unaware he lives in nanny state."

"45 Year Old Man Actually Open to Dating 25 Year Old Women."

Oh wait, that's The Onion Feed. 

I got nothin'.   It's up to you fair forum goers.  This thread is in your hands.

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1035 on: November 05, 2014, 09:55:27 AM »
Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

I'm a traditional religious person (a male) and I think the domestic arts are a lot more meaningful and fulfilling than being a fighter pilot. Should I share this preference with my children (of both sexes)? Is it only insidious when I share it with daughters?  If so, why?
You can share it all you want, but if you judge or harm your children for thinking you are nuts and wanting/enjoying a career,  or if you or actively harm your children's chances then I am going to feel bad for your kids.
Fine.  That's not the proposition I was responding to.
Then  I am confused because that is what the poster was referring to.  Raising a child in a way that actively pushes a certain gender towards the domestic arts and actively harms their chances by raising them to believe that can't or should not want it.
You keep moving the goal posts and blurring the lines.  There is nothing wrong with giving your child a push in the direction you think they need to go.  That's called parenting.  That's not the same as telling them that they can't or shouldn't consider something as broad as "having a career".

Let's go back and read what I am responding to:
Quote
Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.
I'm taking this comment at face value.  If they are brought up to "WANT" a big family, then we are supposing that a big family is what they want, aren't we?  We're not talking about a girl brought up in a traditional religious family who wants to do something different.  This commenter is saying it is evil when traditional religious families successfully pass on their values to the next generation, because those values are traditional religious ones.

Look, regardless of what your worldview or values are, you are going to do some sharing and guidance with your children.  And for everyone, regardless of their worldview, there's a point where you take it too far and you're trying to control the choices that rightly belong to your child alone.  All I'm pointing out is that, taken at face value, the original comment was calling it insidious that in families with values he or she disagrees with, many of the children also have those values.  The equivalent statement from a religious standpoint would be something like this:

Quote
Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them careerism and decide that they want to be stay-at-home moms. They are brought up to WANT to be too busy for a big family, and that is the most insidious thing.

If I wrote that, am I accusing secular parents of being controlling?  No.  What I'm accusing them of is successfully transmitting their worldview to their children.  How silly is it to call that "insidious"?

Gin1984

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1036 on: November 05, 2014, 10:03:43 AM »
Those two concepts are probably far more entangled than your statement implies. I think it's one of the reasons promoting gender equality is harder in traditional societies. Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.

I'm a traditional religious person (a male) and I think the domestic arts are a lot more meaningful and fulfilling than being a fighter pilot. Should I share this preference with my children (of both sexes)? Is it only insidious when I share it with daughters?  If so, why?
You can share it all you want, but if you judge or harm your children for thinking you are nuts and wanting/enjoying a career,  or if you or actively harm your children's chances then I am going to feel bad for your kids.
Fine.  That's not the proposition I was responding to.
Then  I am confused because that is what the poster was referring to.  Raising a child in a way that actively pushes a certain gender towards the domestic arts and actively harms their chances by raising them to believe that can't or should not want it.
You keep moving the goal posts and blurring the lines.  There is nothing wrong with giving your child a push in the direction you think they need to go. That's called parenting.  That's not the same as telling them that they can't or shouldn't consider something as broad as "having a career".

Let's go back and read what I am responding to:
Quote
Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them the domestic arts and decide that they want to be fighter pilots. They are brought up to WANT to have 20 children, and that is the most insidious thing.
I'm taking this comment at face value.  If they are brought up to "WANT" a big family, then we are supposing that a big family is what they want, aren't we?  We're not talking about a girl brought up in a traditional religious family who wants to do something different.  This commenter is saying it is evil when traditional religious families successfully pass on their values to the next generation, because those values are traditional religious ones.

Look, regardless of what your worldview or values are, you are going to do some sharing and guidance with your children.  And for everyone, regardless of their worldview, there's a point where you take it too far and you're trying to control the choices that rightly belong to your child alone.  All I'm pointing out is that, taken at face value, the original comment was calling it insidious that in families with values he or she disagrees with, many of the children also have those values.  The equivalent statement from a religious standpoint would be something like this:

Quote
Very few girls grow up in a culture that teaches them careerism and decide that they want to be stay-at-home moms. They are brought up to WANT to be too busy for a big family, and that is the most insidious thing.

If I wrote that, am I accusing secular parents of being controlling?  No.  What I'm accusing them of is successfully transmitting their worldview to their children.  How silly is it to call that "insidious"?
Actually, I think parents who try to force their kids into a certain career or sabotage their children from going into another direction is controlling, no matter what they are trying to force on the kids.  Removing options because the parents don't like them is controlling.  Let's take SAH vs working off the table for a sec.  If your child was good at math, but he or she kept being told his or her gender was not good at that or that he or she should work on english because that is where his/her talents should lie.  Why would you think that was ok? 

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1037 on: November 05, 2014, 10:14:08 AM »
Actually, I think parents who try to force their kids into a certain career or sabotage their children from going into another direction is controlling, no matter what they are trying to force on the kids.  Removing options because the parents don't like them is controlling.  Let's take SAH vs working off the table for a sec.  If your child was good at math, but he or she kept being told his or her gender was not good at that or that he or she should work on english because that is where his/her talents should lie.  Why would you think that was ok?
This is getting into Scott Adams Hallucination territory.

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/04/my_new_favorite.html

eyePod

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1038 on: November 05, 2014, 11:02:47 AM »
It's kind of an optimism, pessimism, and realism thing, isn't it?

Not only decisions, but capabilities, and options.
I think that's actually a pretty good way of since at the end of the day pretty much everyone wants to see a meritocratic where you aren't kept from doing something account of gender, race, etc. but on the token not everyone is cut out to be able to do all jobs. At the end of the day you need to be realistic about what you options are and that realism isn't something you see getting taught either.

You can share it all you want, but if you judge or harm your children for thinking you are nuts and wanting/enjoying a career,  or if you or actively harm your children's chances then I am going to feel bad for your kids.
So you feel bad for pretty much all kids then? Even if the parents raise their kids perfectly they are getting exposed to society at large which does things like venerate certain jobs which can have a negative influence on children as well. There are lots of people out there in high profile jobs that feel like they are trapped doing it and would rather be doing something else. Saying that one is better than another is just as harmful to children.

Like Rashard Mendenhall! He was looked at as a bum when he retired from the NFL at the age of 26. His quote is awesome "Football was pretty cool, but I don't want to play anymore. I want to travel the world and write!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashard_Mendenhall

SisterX

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1039 on: November 05, 2014, 12:06:55 PM »
In a traditional mother/father setup, the man leaves the home all day to work at a job while the woman takes care of the home and raises the children.  This mostly benefits the man if you are assuming a secular world-view where public social status and worldly success at a career are the most important things, while home-making is a necessary evil. 

Benefit as in, men aren't the ones putting their lives on the line for producing giant families.  Benefit as in, things stay the same where workplaces are full of men, making it harder for women to break into careers, let alone advance within them.  Benefit as in, young men are told that they can have families and be good parents and still go out to work, but young women are told that their thoughts should always center around the home/family.
You seem to be so convinced of your own rightness that you're not making any effort to understand what I say.  So, goodbye.

I have a Jamberry nails Facebook friend, and let me tell you, MLMs like that are a strange subculture. She apparently has the best job in the world, gets to travel to awesome places, works for a company that is the most charitable company she has ever encountered, and makes tons and tons of money. At least that's what she tells me and all her hundreds of friends on a regular basis.

Ugh, I have a friend who just started doing this too.  I unfriended the last person to start talking about her home business thingy (some sort of food based thing, can't remember what it was) and I'm seriously considering unfriending this person too.  Soooo sick of hearing about these things.

justajane

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1040 on: November 05, 2014, 12:18:28 PM »
Checked my feed -

Apparently one person put a question out to FB about whether she should "trash the dress" or not.  So far there's about 10 comments supporting the idea and no one is recommending that she resell her wedding dress.  I really hope she has a less expensive dress if she does.

I find the "trash the dress" trend appalling. You should be a killjoy and link to this - http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/wedding-dress-death-shows-adventure-photo-dangers-1.1233757

Or alternately, you could make her feel guilty and suggest that she could donate it to a disadvantaged bride.


Ugh, I have a friend who just started doing this too.  I unfriended the last person to start talking about her home business thingy (some sort of food based thing, can't remember what it was) and I'm seriously considering unfriending this person too.  Soooo sick of hearing about these things.

For some reason, I just can't look away this time, mainly because I've always found this woman to be a level headed sort of gal. My husband thinks she is pretending to get sales, but I tend to think she is just hoodwinked by a very successful sales machine. Can she really be making lots of money on this endeavor?

galliver

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1041 on: November 05, 2014, 12:24:33 PM »
Out of respect for the foam police, new thread, in which I reply to PloddingInsight:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/traditional-vs-modern-family-values-and-gender-roles/

Cpa Cat

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1042 on: November 05, 2014, 12:32:03 PM »
I have a Jamberry nails Facebook friend, and let me tell you, MLMs like that are a strange subculture. She apparently has the best job in the world, gets to travel to awesome places, works for a company that is the most charitable company she has ever encountered, and makes tons and tons of money. At least that's what she tells me and all her hundreds of friends on a regular basis.

Ugh, I have a friend who just started doing this too.  I unfriended the last person to start talking about her home business thingy (some sort of food based thing, can't remember what it was) and I'm seriously considering unfriending this person too.  Soooo sick of hearing about these things.

Not only does my Jamberry friend also say all this stuff and constantly invite me to her "online sales party" (which just involves buying Jamberry nails from her webpage), she also posts photos of her Jamberry nails EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Her fingers and toes are starting to look really old and gross. You can tell it's doing bad things to her skin and nails to be constantly picking at them and adhering stuff to them.

And she can't be making money on this. Her Jamberry nail habit probably costs more than a cocaine addiction.

PloddingInsight

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1043 on: November 05, 2014, 12:34:06 PM »
In a traditional mother/father setup, the man leaves the home all day to work at a job while the woman takes care of the home and raises the children.  This mostly benefits the man if you are assuming a secular world-view where public social status and worldly success at a career are the most important things, while home-making is a necessary evil. 

Benefit as in, men aren't the ones putting their lives on the line for producing giant families.  Benefit as in, things stay the same where workplaces are full of men, making it harder for women to break into careers, let alone advance within them.  Benefit as in, young men are told that they can have families and be good parents and still go out to work, but young women are told that their thoughts should always center around the home/family.
You seem to be so convinced of your own rightness that you're not making any effort to understand what I say.  So, goodbye.
No, I think I get what you're saying.  When I ask "Benefit how?" it's not because I don't know what you mean.  I'm trying to ask you to look at it from a different point of view.  Any time you're examining who benefits from an arrangement between people, you are implicitly making value judgments that about what is important.  You answer differently based on what you care about.  If your priority is to maximize people's career options, then certainly men benefit from the traditional setup: having a home-maker spouse affords you the luxury to throw yourself into your career and make the most of it.  But now suppose you think the most important thing is that people have strong ties and frequent interaction with their children?  From that perspective, the luxury of being a stay-at-home parent is a bigger benefit than having a career, isn't it?

Anyway you don't have to respond.  I just don't want you to think I'm trolling you.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1044 on: November 05, 2014, 12:38:12 PM »

Actually, I think parents who try to force their kids into a certain career or sabotage their children from going into another direction is controlling, no matter what they are trying to force on the kids.  Removing options because the parents don't like them is controlling.  Let's take SAH vs working off the table for a sec.  If your child was good at math, but he or she kept being told his or her gender was not good at that or that he or she should work on english because that is where his/her talents should lie.  Why would you think that was ok?

Oooooh  -- This sound surprisingly like the thread asking if it was Okay for parents to agree to pay for college only if their kids "chose wisely"...   e.g., STEM programs,, Accounting, or Medicine.

I find parents that restrict their kids via college funding to be equally or more limiting than anything dealing with traditional gender roles, simply because so many people in society (Gin1984)loudly demonstrate / speak up against gender role typing.  By the time the kid is 15, they know that Mom and Dad's traditional views are not the only way to look at the world.


Even so,   the college funding discussion was split among the MMM respondents -- should parents push kids (using money as carrot / stick) into certain educational and career choices?  Is it OK to ever limit a child's options?

....Maybe we should move this to its own thread, to allow us to mock FB posts again....

Overheard on FB
My FB post was a friend who recently moved, 800km to cheaper city, as they were out of cc and equity room,  and needed to get equity and borrowing capacity again.   They have  been unable to sell the old home, so is carrying both, with Dad staying in it, while he works to manage it.  Yikes.   

The FB problem is the "new to them" truck they just bought and posted to FB, so Dad has wheels in the old city (Mom had kids and car at new place).   

They only were able to purchase the truck because they know that there will be an inheritance from Great Aunty who was in her final days at the hospital at the time of the truck purchase.  (They recently sold a smaller property to get a tiny amount of equity room for emergencies, but have now quickly written a loan against it, until the inheritance comes, I am guessing)

The FB punch is not about the way the treated Great Aunty -- FB friend was the only one around in her final dementia years, visiting weekly or more at the care facility -- but the way they separate out money in their heads from real life -- and spend it before they get it.   

They have huge debts and have already assumed (banked on) a realized value for their future home sale, which has been sitting on the market for several months now, needing mortgage payments, not to mention travel of 800km so dad can see kids and wife once a month.

4alpacas

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1045 on: November 05, 2014, 12:45:12 PM »
I have a Jamberry nails Facebook friend, and let me tell you, MLMs like that are a strange subculture. She apparently has the best job in the world, gets to travel to awesome places, works for a company that is the most charitable company she has ever encountered, and makes tons and tons of money. At least that's what she tells me and all her hundreds of friends on a regular basis.

Ugh, I have a friend who just started doing this too.  I unfriended the last person to start talking about her home business thingy (some sort of food based thing, can't remember what it was) and I'm seriously considering unfriending this person too.  Soooo sick of hearing about these things.

Not only does my Jamberry friend also say all this stuff and constantly invite me to her "online sales party" (which just involves buying Jamberry nails from her webpage), she also posts photos of her Jamberry nails EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Her fingers and toes are starting to look really old and gross. You can tell it's doing bad things to her skin and nails to be constantly picking at them and adhering stuff to them.

And she can't be making money on this. Her Jamberry nail habit probably costs more than a cocaine addiction.
Comments like this make me continue checking this thread.  I snorted because I was laughing so hard. 

FunkyStickman

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1046 on: November 05, 2014, 12:55:30 PM »
I want you people to understand how much I appreciate the Lolz.

I just went into my facebook feed settings and started re-following all 500+ friends.

I want you to understand, I'm doing this for you folks. For the lolz.

(EDIT) Facebook apparently doesn't want me doing it, I got halfway through and it started making me confirm every re-follow, saying "If you subscribe to too many people at once, your News Feed could get cluttered."

I must be doing something right.

Will post back with the lolz once I'm done.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1047 on: November 05, 2014, 12:57:39 PM »
Checked my feed -

Apparently one person put a question out to FB about whether she should "trash the dress" or not.  So far there's about 10 comments supporting the idea and no one is recommending that she resell her wedding dress.  I really hope she has a less expensive dress if she does.

OMG don't even get me started on trash the dress. I find it so repugnant. Even if you don't want the dress or the money, freaking donate it!!

I have a Jamberry nails Facebook friend, and let me tell you, MLMs like that are a strange subculture. She apparently has the best job in the world, gets to travel to awesome places, works for a company that is the most charitable company she has ever encountered, and makes tons and tons of money. At least that's what she tells me and all her hundreds of friends on a regular basis.

Ugh, I have a friend who just started doing this too.  I unfriended the last person to start talking about her home business thingy (some sort of food based thing, can't remember what it was) and I'm seriously considering unfriending this person too.  Soooo sick of hearing about these things.

Not only does my Jamberry friend also say all this stuff and constantly invite me to her "online sales party" (which just involves buying Jamberry nails from her webpage), she also posts photos of her Jamberry nails EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Anything with the "online sales party" concept is so ridiculous, LOL. I had a (Facebook friend, used to be a good friend in high school) doing one of the jewelry ones. Tell me again how this is considered a party?!? Isn't it just a "Facebook event" where you ask me to buy your shit?

Gin1984

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1048 on: November 05, 2014, 12:59:33 PM »

Actually, I think parents who try to force their kids into a certain career or sabotage their children from going into another direction is controlling, no matter what they are trying to force on the kids.  Removing options because the parents don't like them is controlling.  Let's take SAH vs working off the table for a sec.  If your child was good at math, but he or she kept being told his or her gender was not good at that or that he or she should work on english because that is where his/her talents should lie.  Why would you think that was ok?

Oooooh  -- This sound surprisingly like the thread asking if it was Okay for parents to agree to pay for college only if their kids "chose wisely"...   e.g., STEM programs,, Accounting, or Medicine.

I find parents that restrict their kids via college funding to be equally or more limiting than anything dealing with traditional gender roles, simply because so many people in society (Gin1984)loudly demonstrate / speak up against gender role typing. By the time the kid is 15, they know that Mom and Dad's traditional views are not the only way to look at the world.


Even so,   the college funding discussion was split among the MMM respondents -- should parents push kids (using money as carrot / stick) into certain educational and career choices?  Is it OK to ever limit a child's options?

....Maybe we should move this to its own thread, to allow us to mock FB posts again....

Overheard on FB
My FB post was a friend who recently moved, 800km to cheaper city, as they were out of cc and equity room,  and needed to get equity and borrowing capacity again.   They have  been unable to sell the old home, so is carrying both, with Dad staying in it, while he works to manage it.  Yikes.   

The FB problem is the "new to them" truck they just bought and posted to FB, so Dad has wheels in the old city (Mom had kids and car at new place).   

They only were able to purchase the truck because they know that there will be an inheritance from Great Aunty who was in her final days at the hospital at the time of the truck purchase.  (They recently sold a smaller property to get a tiny amount of equity room for emergencies, but have now quickly written a loan against it, until the inheritance comes, I am guessing)

The FB punch is not about the way the treated Great Aunty -- FB friend was the only one around in her final dementia years, visiting weekly or more at the care facility -- but the way they separate out money in their heads from real life -- and spend it before they get it.   

They have huge debts and have already assumed (banked on) a realized value for their future home sale, which has been sitting on the market for several months now, needing mortgage payments, not to mention travel of 800km so dad can see kids and wife once a month.
But even if the child does know (and has not be indoctrinated because the parents determine who the child is around), they can still be harmed.  Like sending a boy to a college prep high school and the girl to a more "domestic" private school.  I knew of families who did that and sent the boys to the brother school of my school.  The girls, even if they had decided they did not want to be a housewife like mom, were given no chance to be otherwise.

sugarsnap

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Re: Overheard on Facebook
« Reply #1049 on: November 05, 2014, 01:20:53 PM »
I have a 'real life' friend doing jamberry and she is making a buttload of dough. Over $20k a month at this point. I'm pretty sure that's not normal though, she got in early and has hundreds of people under her.

I still wouldn't want to become a spam machine to all of my friends, I'm sure the business will be over saturated and blow over soon enough.