Author Topic: Overheard at Work  (Read 8603793 times)

Hirondelle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20750 on: August 07, 2018, 02:29:15 PM »
The Wheaton Scale has been a very helpful concept for me: https://paulwheaton12.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/the-wheaton-eco-scale/

Even though I like his way of thinking, I'm put off by the fact how he calls 5 billion people level zero and continuous by mentioning measures that many of these 5 billion probably have never heard of while doing way less harm than the people 2-3 levels above them buying organic food.

He should've just included the western world population cause his list of examples isn't relevant in most of the world.

Jouer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20751 on: August 07, 2018, 02:41:45 PM »
I agree with the two above posters that plastic bags are super easy to just stop using, so why not? But I think Kyle's point was that all of this political capital and willpower is being spent on changes that really don't have a large impact because it's become a pet issue to some people.

Plastic straws and plastic bags make up a tiny fraction of global plastic waste, and yet they receive a disproportionate amount of attention from environmental campaigns. So politicians can implement a straw/bag ban and say they are "green"/"environment friendly" without doing anything that would actually, you know, help the environment in a meaningful and long-term way (like a carbon tax).

Plastic bags, at least, get a disproportionate amount of attention because it was a very visible form of local trash.  Environmental measures are easier to push if you pick something that actually affects the voters on a daily basis.  Sure, all plastics end up being problems in the ocean, but people don't live in the ocean.  Except for Aquaman.

Exactly.

Plastic straws/bags are to the environment as lattes are to personal finance. Ya gotta start somewhere. And that somewhere has to be something people understand and/or see.

Doing something is better than doing nothing. Sometimes it's about getting the ball rolling...easing people into the issue. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good (and other such buzz-phrases).

Dabnasty

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Age: 29
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20752 on: August 07, 2018, 03:05:55 PM »
I agree with the two above posters that plastic bags are super easy to just stop using, so why not? But I think Kyle's point was that all of this political capital and willpower is being spent on changes that really don't have a large impact because it's become a pet issue to some people.

Plastic straws and plastic bags make up a tiny fraction of global plastic waste, and yet they receive a disproportionate amount of attention from environmental campaigns. So politicians can implement a straw/bag ban and say they are "green"/"environment friendly" without doing anything that would actually, you know, help the environment in a meaningful and long-term way (like a carbon tax).

Plastic bags, at least, get a disproportionate amount of attention because it was a very visible form of local trash.  Environmental measures are easier to push if you pick something that actually affects the voters on a daily basis.  Sure, all plastics end up being problems in the ocean, but people don't live in the ocean.  Except for Aquaman.

Exactly.

Plastic straws/bags are to the environment as lattes are to personal finance. Ya gotta start somewhere. And that somewhere has to be something people understand and/or see.

Doing something is better than doing nothing. Sometimes it's about getting the ball rolling...easing people into the issue. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good (and other such buzz-phrases).

And the lattes come in disposable cups. Overlapping analogy.

js82

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20753 on: August 07, 2018, 04:37:54 PM »
The Wheaton Scale has been a very helpful concept for me: https://paulwheaton12.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/the-wheaton-eco-scale/

Even though I like his way of thinking, I'm put off by the fact how he calls 5 billion people level zero and continuous by mentioning measures that many of these 5 billion probably have never heard of while doing way less harm than the people 2-3 levels above them buying organic food.

He should've just included the western world population cause his list of examples isn't relevant in most of the world.

I agree, and I think there's one other big miss in the article here: Not enough emphasis on impact.  We gain a lot more as a society from reining in the worst problems than we do from poking at people because their produce isn't organic.  Push for a switch from Coal to other sources of power, and convince the guy driving a massive, 12 MPG SUV to switch to a newer vehicle that gets 30 and you've done a lot more than shaming a Prius owner into bike commuting or getting someone to spend tens of thousands on rooftop solar.

It takes a lot of vegetable gardens to offset one dude who decides he needs a big-ass SUV.

plainjane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1619
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20754 on: August 08, 2018, 04:24:04 AM »
We gain a lot more as a society from reining in the worst problems than we do from poking at people because their produce isn't organic.  Push for a switch from Coal to other sources of power, and convince the guy driving a massive, 12 MPG SUV to switch to a newer vehicle that gets 30 and you've done a lot more than shaming a Prius owner into bike commuting or getting someone to spend tens of thousands on rooftop solar.

It takes a lot of vegetable gardens to offset one dude who decides he needs a big-ass SUV.

wrt coal - how much of that was the horrible smog days and literally seeing statues start dissolving vs. the flight of so much manufacturing? I am old enough to remember the multi-day smog alerts in Toronto, but not the full narrative of what actually happened. I'm pretty happy that the recent Toronto heat wave has just been muggy, and not that yellow/green sky colour.

And to be fair, some owners of big-ass SUVs _also_ have gardens, because people are complex. I don't have a car, but I also fly to New Zealand every 2 years.

js82

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20755 on: August 08, 2018, 04:50:04 AM »
We gain a lot more as a society from reining in the worst problems than we do from poking at people because their produce isn't organic.  Push for a switch from Coal to other sources of power, and convince the guy driving a massive, 12 MPG SUV to switch to a newer vehicle that gets 30 and you've done a lot more than shaming a Prius owner into bike commuting or getting someone to spend tens of thousands on rooftop solar.

It takes a lot of vegetable gardens to offset one dude who decides he needs a big-ass SUV.

wrt coal - how much of that was the horrible smog days and literally seeing statues start dissolving vs. the flight of so much manufacturing? I am old enough to remember the multi-day smog alerts in Toronto, but not the full narrative of what actually happened. I'm pretty happy that the recent Toronto heat wave has just been muggy, and not that yellow/green sky colour.

And to be fair, some owners of big-ass SUVs _also_ have gardens, because people are complex. I don't have a car, but I also fly to New Zealand every 2 years.

1. Re: Coal - we're better at controlling particulate emissions now, but it still sucks compared to other sources - both in terms of CO2 per energy unit, and in terms of other impurities that end up in the atmosphere - it's still the filthiest power source there is.

2. I agree re: people being complex - and that was kind of my point, though I may have articulated it poorly.  My intended point was that we should focus on behaviors that are both high-impact, and that we actually have a chance of changing.  This is why things like cost-effective, more-efficient (not necessarily even electric) vehicles are a big, big deal.  The changes we have the best odds of adopting over the long run are ones that minimize inconvenience - this is why investing developing low-cost renewable energy solutions for our power grid and building affordable EV's are such a big deal - the technology merely has to reach the point of cost-competitiveness, and it will be adopted in droves.

onlykelsey

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2037
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20756 on: August 08, 2018, 04:57:02 AM »
I was chatting with a co worker after we got ~10k bonuses on top of our generous salaries last month, and he confessed that he still wasn’t on track to max his 401(k)!  We have no match, but still!!!

grandep

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 108
  • Location: New Mexico
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20757 on: August 08, 2018, 08:25:50 AM »
The Ecomodernist Manifesto is a good read for intelligent, environmentally-minded folks like most Mustachians. I recommend reading it if you haven't already.

The Wheaton Scale has been a very helpful concept for me: https://paulwheaton12.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/the-wheaton-eco-scale/

Organic produce is not the environmental panacea that the author believes it is:
Quote
Despite strong public perception of organic agriculture producing better environmental outcomes, we show that conventional agriculture often performs better on environmental measures including land use, greenhouse gas emissions, and pollution of water bodies. There are, however, some contexts where organic agriculture may be considered appropriate.

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for-the-environment
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 08:39:58 AM by grandep »

thesis

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 55
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20758 on: August 08, 2018, 11:11:22 AM »
These aren't so much things I've overheard at work as they are quirks of my company's retirement portal.

1. any change in 401k contribution is sent to the employee via snail mail. There's no way I have found to stop this. It seems changes are so extremely important that they must be sent by mail because who checks the 401k portal?

2. I'm fairly certain I just over-contributed to my 401k a little thanks to only being able to specify %, but the system did not stop me from doing this. It's as if the company who wrote this software decided that people actually reaching the contribution limit was an edge-case that happened so rarely it wasn't worth building the product to stop contributions at specified amounts by year.

3. After dropping my contributions to 0% because I hit the limit, I immediately got a message suggesting I enroll in the program that does an automatic 1% increase every year up to 10%.

4. This is more about benefits than retirement, but there is no ability to front-load HSA contributions; I can only do equal monthly contributions. Email doesn't communicate emotions well, but the benefits department seemed a bit confused when I asked about this. Ya know, why would anybody want to do that? Maybe HSAs are only designed to work this way, I'm too lazy to research law, but it's still annoying.

:headsmack:

:)

momcpa

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20759 on: August 08, 2018, 11:27:56 AM »
Re 'over contributing' to a 401k:   The last paycheck of the year had a different, higher net amount.  I looked at all the deductions and the 401k contribution was lower ???  I asked payroll about it.  They said that I had hit the limit.  I said NO, I was old enough to qualify for the additional amount allowed.  Their excuse was that the computerized system probably didn't know how old I was.  What?!  It's computerized.  It has all of my information.....most importantly, it has my birthdate.  So I voiced all of that to payroll.  They said that probably I was the first and only person to hit the limit in our organization.  I knew that we were a small company, not a lot of employees, but there are people that make substantially more than I do.  How could I be the first? 

Tells me a little about 'who' contributes, and 'how much'.

thesis

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 55
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20760 on: August 08, 2018, 11:42:14 AM »
Re 'over contributing' to a 401k:   The last paycheck of the year had a different, higher net amount.  I looked at all the deductions and the 401k contribution was lower ???  I asked payroll about it.  They said that I had hit the limit.  I said NO, I was old enough to qualify for the additional amount allowed.  Their excuse was that the computerized system probably didn't know how old I was.  What?!  It's computerized.  It has all of my information.....most importantly, it has my birthdate.  So I voiced all of that to payroll.  They said that probably I was the first and only person to hit the limit in our organization.  I knew that we were a small company, not a lot of employees, but there are people that make substantially more than I do.  How could I be the first? 

Tells me a little about 'who' contributes, and 'how much'.

Awesome. XD

marcela

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 603
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20761 on: August 08, 2018, 12:32:27 PM »
HR sent out a notice letting us know that the IRS (finally) has a new calculator out to check withholding with the new tax laws. Looks like between the tax laws changing and my husband's new job not having a pre-tax option, we're getting a big bill in April. It was the kick in the pants I needed to change my 401k from post to pre tax. It won't be much, but it'll help a little.

The HR lady I spoke to in trying to get it switched strongly suggested that I make sure I'm putting at least $20/paycheck into retirement. She seemed very proud that she was putting in $50/paycheck. I directed her to @monstermonster 's book. Hopefully she'll see that she can put more away.   

RWD

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Location: Mississippi
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20762 on: August 08, 2018, 12:39:29 PM »
The HR lady I spoke to in trying to get it switched strongly suggested that I make sure I'm putting at least $20/paycheck into retirement. She seemed very proud that she was putting in $50/paycheck. I directed her to @monstermonster 's book. Hopefully she'll see that she can put more away.

Wow... Are you paid weekly, at least? $50/week might get you to $1 million after 40 years...

shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3772
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20763 on: August 08, 2018, 12:44:43 PM »
The Ecomodernist Manifesto is a good read for intelligent, environmentally-minded folks like most Mustachians. I recommend reading it if you haven't already.

The Wheaton Scale has been a very helpful concept for me: https://paulwheaton12.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/the-wheaton-eco-scale/

Organic produce is not the environmental panacea that the author believes it is:
Quote
Despite strong public perception of organic agriculture producing better environmental outcomes, we show that conventional agriculture often performs better on environmental measures including land use, greenhouse gas emissions, and pollution of water bodies. There are, however, some contexts where organic agriculture may be considered appropriate.

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for-the-environment

So what? I've still found the concept of the Wheaton Scale very helpful. Is this a more acceptable explanation? https://wiki.earlyretirementextreme.com/wiki/ERE_Wheaton_Levels

marcela

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 603
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20764 on: August 08, 2018, 12:47:58 PM »
The HR lady I spoke to in trying to get it switched strongly suggested that I make sure I'm putting at least $20/paycheck into retirement. She seemed very proud that she was putting in $50/paycheck. I directed her to @monstermonster 's book. Hopefully she'll see that she can put more away.

Wow... Are you paid weekly, at least? $50/week might get you to $1 million after 40 years...

Bi-weekly.

RWD

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Location: Mississippi
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20765 on: August 08, 2018, 12:57:10 PM »
The HR lady I spoke to in trying to get it switched strongly suggested that I make sure I'm putting at least $20/paycheck into retirement. She seemed very proud that she was putting in $50/paycheck. I directed her to @monstermonster 's book. Hopefully she'll see that she can put more away.

Wow... Are you paid weekly, at least? $50/week might get you to $1 million after 40 years...

Bi-weekly.

Ouch.

monstermonster

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4078
  • Age: 31
  • Location: The People's Republic of Portland (Oregon)
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20766 on: August 08, 2018, 01:13:02 PM »
The HR lady I spoke to in trying to get it switched strongly suggested that I make sure I'm putting at least $20/paycheck into retirement. She seemed very proud that she was putting in $50/paycheck. I directed her to @monstermonster 's book. Hopefully she'll see that she can put more away.

Wow... Are you paid weekly, at least? $50/week might get you to $1 million after 40 years...
Bi-weekly.
Hey not everyone needs a million to retire! Perhaps she makes in the $20,000 annual salary range, so she's saving 6% of her salary... or is focused on paying off debt, or some other goal. Or maybe she needs a little help to do the math.

FIRE@50

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Maryland
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20767 on: August 08, 2018, 01:16:38 PM »
The HR lady I spoke to in trying to get it switched strongly suggested that I make sure I'm putting at least $20/paycheck into retirement. She seemed very proud that she was putting in $50/paycheck. I directed her to @monstermonster 's book. Hopefully she'll see that she can put more away.

Wow... Are you paid weekly, at least? $50/week might get you to $1 million after 40 years...
Bi-weekly.
Hey not everyone needs a million to retire! Perhaps she makes in the $20,000 annual salary range, so she's saving 6% of her salary... or is focused on paying off debt, or some other goal. Or maybe she needs a little help to do the math.
I think the $20 comment is more telling. The HR person is basically saying, without saying it, that a lot/most are saving zero.

Sir Tom of Ato

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20768 on: August 09, 2018, 08:22:41 AM »
Not quite from work, but I am in college, and I have a friend (and housemate) who is getting married this summer.
He is about halfway through the 5 years for his undergrad (multiple majors), and he plans to go to grad school afterward. All good stuff, though of course it means he won't be earning much for a number of years at least, and then he will definitely have loans.

His educational aspirations aren't what I am writing here about, though. The other week, he mentioned his honeymoon plans. His soon-to-be wife apparently really wants to go to Disney World, and so their (presumably) week-long honeymoon will be at Disney World. But they aren't just paying for that. They are staying in one of the actual Disney World hotels. He mentioned the name which I then looked up, and it costs WELL OVER $900 PER NIGHT. That means they will definitely be spending a minimum of $1,000 per day for their honeymoon at a crowded park, if you count the overpriced food and entrance fees.

Now, he also just bought a car (used, cheap, and good condition at least), and I happen to know that his summer job made him enough money for rent, utilities, food, and I guess that car, but not much else. His future wife does not have a job yet, that I am aware of.

So I went to their wedding registry website to see what kind of gifts they were looking for (maybe a nice set of kitchen knives? I like giving people those lol), and it basically said "we don't want gifts, we want your money" but nicer. I asked my friend about it, and he told me "yeah, we are basically going to use all of the money we get at our wedding to help offset the cost of the honeymoon."

I think I'll get him the kitchen knives.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6963
  • Location: United States
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20769 on: August 09, 2018, 08:42:13 AM »
I told a few coworkers today they could contribute more than our required 2% to their 403bs (we are required to put in 2%, company puts in 10+% depending on year of service).
Only 2 of them in the conversation knew this. The rest were intrigued at the idea.


My sister is a corporate financial advisor for a big name company.  When I said that I "wasn't quite maxing my 403b" she was absolutely shocked. Then, I found out she thought "maxing" meant maxing your match (which isn't a thing for me), not the $18,500 the government limits. She said she'd never heard of anyone doing that.

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5591
  • Location: BC
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20770 on: August 09, 2018, 08:43:40 AM »
^^  I wish I could give them the advice to delay marriage until everyone has finished their undergrad, and likely first masters degree.

I know many people marry earlier than that.  I did, DH was not yet finished, and it is the reason for the advice -- It sets up this weird dynamic where something other than the marriage has to come first in one's life, right off the bat, and then the person with the shorter years in school (wife) ends up being the sole income earner, another challenging aspect for many guys, and especially for those who come from backgrounds where marrying early is common.

I received a lovely set of knives as a wedding present, all my university friends got together to buy me a small set of good knives.   I still use them 24 years later and think of my friends often.

Hirondelle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1015
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20771 on: August 09, 2018, 08:55:45 AM »
I never understand why people feel the need to get married before they even finish undergrad and have a job that can actually pay for their wedding..?

Sir Tom of Ato

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20772 on: August 09, 2018, 08:57:57 AM »
^^  I wish I could give them the advice to delay marriage until everyone has finished their undergrad, and likely first masters degree.

I know many people marry earlier than that.  I did, DH was not yet finished, and it is the reason for the advice -- It sets up this weird dynamic where something other than the marriage has to come first in one's life, right off the bat, and then the person with the shorter years in school (wife) ends up being the sole income earner, another challenging aspect for many guys, and especially for those who come from backgrounds where marrying early is common.

I received a lovely set of knives as a wedding present, all my university friends got together to buy me a small set of good knives.   I still use them 24 years later and think of my friends often.

That makes a lot of sense. As for me, my girlfriend and I have a vague plan of maybe 3 more years before we marry. She has an extra semester to do after I graduate, and I might end up doing a masters as well, so we aren't rushing anything.

Also, I'm glad to hear about your knives! That's exactly why I like giving them. People should be able to use them for many years, and I feel like that is the point of a wedding gift. 24 years from now they won't remember me having paid the equivalent of a meal on their honeymoon, but they could still be using the knives which cost the same amount.

Raenia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20773 on: August 09, 2018, 09:01:00 AM »
^^  I wish I could give them the advice to delay marriage until everyone has finished their undergrad, and likely first masters degree.

I know many people marry earlier than that.  I did, DH was not yet finished, and it is the reason for the advice -- It sets up this weird dynamic where something other than the marriage has to come first in one's life, right off the bat, and then the person with the shorter years in school (wife) ends up being the sole income earner, another challenging aspect for many guys, and especially for those who come from backgrounds where marrying early is common.

I received a lovely set of knives as a wedding present, all my university friends got together to buy me a small set of good knives.   I still use them 24 years later and think of my friends often.

That makes a lot of sense. As for me, my girlfriend and I have a vague plan of maybe 3 more years before we marry. She has an extra semester to do after I graduate, and I might end up doing a masters as well, so we aren't rushing anything.

Also, I'm glad to hear about your knives! That's exactly why I like giving them. People should be able to use them for many years, and I feel like that is the point of a wedding gift. 24 years from now they won't remember me having paid the equivalent of a meal on their honeymoon, but they could still be using the knives which cost the same amount.

Another vote for good quality knives.  We asked for a very high quality bread knife on our wedding registry, and it might be my favorite gift so far - and we also got a kitchenaid mixer, rice cooker, and several other nice kitchen things.  Of course we're very grateful to the people who gave cash as well, but damn if I'm not irrationally happy every time I pick up that knife :)

SynestheticSymphony

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Age: 26
  • Location: Evansville, Indiana, USA
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20774 on: August 09, 2018, 09:11:00 AM »
...but damn if I'm not irrationally happy every time I pick up that knife :)

Should this sentence scare us? XD

rockstache

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5729
  • Age: 2014
  • Location: Northeast
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20775 on: August 09, 2018, 09:20:31 AM »
Call me the grinch, but they'll probably just return the knives and get the cash anyway. Most couples are living together and so already have what they need for the home. I don't mind giving cash for weddings. The honeymoon sounds absurd, and Disney is not my thing, but if I knew them and liked them, I'd give them what they ask for.

I married in undergrad and we did grad school married as well, and it was wonderful. Admittedly, we started college late, and we both had full time jobs and no debt the whole time, so maybe a little different than these folks. We were given a large gift to help pay for our wedding, but we didn't need it.

I do make more than my husband, and always have, but it's never been an issue (or much of a topic of discussion), so I can't really comment on that aspect.



Raenia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20776 on: August 09, 2018, 09:23:15 AM »
...but damn if I'm not irrationally happy every time I pick up that knife :)

Should this sentence scare us? XD

Maaaaybe?  Nah, I'm sure you're fine.  I don't know where you live, after all ;D

I bake almost all of our bread from scratch, so having a good knife makes a ton of difference.  I think this is the one: [link=https://www.amazon.com/Tojiro-Bread-Slicer-270mm-F-687/dp/B004LVIO3O/ref=sr_1_4/134-9285627-2794216?ie=UTF8&qid=1533827937&sr=8-4&keywords=tojiro+bread+knife]click[/url].  Goes through like butter.  Especially after my old crummy knife, sawing through and ruining the crust.

Sir Tom of Ato

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20777 on: August 09, 2018, 10:08:18 AM »
Call me the grinch, but they'll probably just return the knives and get the cash anyway. Most couples are living together and so already have what they need for the home. I don't mind giving cash for weddings. The honeymoon sounds absurd, and Disney is not my thing, but if I knew them and liked them, I'd give them what they ask for.

I see what you're saying, but in this particular case, I know that they were both living in the dorms last year, and the guy has been renting as one of my housemates this summer, so they don't really have much in terms of household supplies for when they move in together later this month (they are both from halfway across the country as well, so it is unlikely they will be flying back here with a lot of stuff). Also, I know the guy likes cooking (I don't know his fiance very well). I just have a hard time convincing myself to give money when I know all of it will just go toward Disney World...maybe I shouldn't have asked him about that!

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8103
  • Registered member
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20778 on: August 09, 2018, 10:14:42 AM »
The HR lady I spoke to in trying to get it switched strongly suggested that I make sure I'm putting at least $20/paycheck into retirement. She seemed very proud that she was putting in $50/paycheck. I directed her to @monstermonster 's book. Hopefully she'll see that she can put more away.

Wow... Are you paid weekly, at least? $50/week might get you to $1 million after 40 years...

Bi-weekly.

Ah so $100/week will get you to $2 million after 40 years not too shabby

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1023
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20779 on: August 09, 2018, 10:16:06 AM »
Not quite from work, but I am in college, and I have a friend (and housemate) who is getting married this summer.
He is about halfway through the 5 years for his undergrad (multiple majors), and he plans to go to grad school afterward. All good stuff, though of course it means he won't be earning much for a number of years at least, and then he will definitely have loans.

His educational aspirations aren't what I am writing here about, though. The other week, he mentioned his honeymoon plans. His soon-to-be wife apparently really wants to go to Disney World, and so their (presumably) week-long honeymoon will be at Disney World. But they aren't just paying for that. They are staying in one of the actual Disney World hotels. He mentioned the name which I then looked up, and it costs WELL OVER $900 PER NIGHT. That means they will definitely be spending a minimum of $1,000 per day for their honeymoon at a crowded park, if you count the overpriced food and entrance fees.

Now, he also just bought a car (used, cheap, and good condition at least), and I happen to know that his summer job made him enough money for rent, utilities, food, and I guess that car, but not much else. His future wife does not have a job yet, that I am aware of.

So I went to their wedding registry website to see what kind of gifts they were looking for (maybe a nice set of kitchen knives? I like giving people those lol), and it basically said "we don't want gifts, we want your money" but nicer. I asked my friend about it, and he told me "yeah, we are basically going to use all of the money we get at our wedding to help offset the cost of the honeymoon."

I think I'll get him the kitchen knives.

Isn't valuing an experience over stuff an important concept though? (given, this is totally a ridiculous experience given their financial/job status)

I totally like the way the trend is going to give money instead of *things*... but that's just me.

PS. I did get a lovely ceramic knife for Xmas once from a sibling. It started my new love affair with ceramic knives...

Sir Tom of Ato

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20780 on: August 09, 2018, 10:30:14 AM »
Isn't valuing an experience over stuff an important concept though? (given, this is totally a ridiculous experience given their financial/job status)

I totally like the way the trend is going to give money instead of *things*... but that's just me.

PS. I did get a lovely ceramic knife for Xmas once from a sibling. It started my new love affair with ceramic knives...

True. I don't want to devalue the experience for them. I guess it is just hard for me to swallow the fact that my hypothetical money contribution, along with the contributions of all my friends, are just going to end up paying for some hotel...
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 10:32:45 AM by Sir Tom of Ato »

marcela

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 603
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20781 on: August 09, 2018, 10:32:49 AM »
The HR lady I spoke to in trying to get it switched strongly suggested that I make sure I'm putting at least $20/paycheck into retirement. She seemed very proud that she was putting in $50/paycheck. I directed her to @monstermonster 's book. Hopefully she'll see that she can put more away.

Wow... Are you paid weekly, at least? $50/week might get you to $1 million after 40 years...
Bi-weekly.
Hey not everyone needs a million to retire! Perhaps she makes in the $20,000 annual salary range, so she's saving 6% of her salary... or is focused on paying off debt, or some other goal. Or maybe she needs a little help to do the math.

I don't know about any debt she might be paying off, but she makes in the 50k range (our salaries are public info) and I see her going on a lot of vacations/ to concerts..etc. Goes out for lunch everyday too. Hopefully, she takes some of what I said to heart and it helps her.

Slee_stack

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20782 on: August 09, 2018, 10:32:58 AM »
CW1 just bought a fancy new car.  Probably a slightly above average cost one.

I've spoken to CW1 in the past and they readily admit they should know more and be better about spending, but just can't do it.  They are smart technically but intentionally bury their heads in the sand regarding money.  I've tried to to convey some basic suggestions, but its 'too hard'.   Its frustrating.  These willfully ignorant types tick me off down the road when their hands outstretch for help.

CW2 brought up CW1 and talked excitedly about the new car.  I told CW2 it would have been nice if CW1 could have at least found a nice few years old car.

CW2 explained...well you HAVE to buy a first NEW car sometime.

Someone else here just rolled in with a new 'track' version corvette or something.  Its amazing how much money is sitting in our parking lot.

A lot of very smart, remarkably idiotic people here.  More than a few even recognize their poor habits yet keep on keeping on.

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5591
  • Location: BC
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20783 on: August 09, 2018, 10:38:09 AM »


I do make more than my husband, and always have, but it's never been an issue (or much of a topic of discussion), so I can't really comment on that aspect.

The weirdness in pay is partly from DH earning ZERO, for more than year, and living off the wife's (low, because first "career" role) income.

I found that a differential in income, even if fairly large, matters less as people age, and if they have been earning their respective incomes for a while before getting together, because a low income is still self supporting / validating.  That's different from a student virtual "ZERO" income for an extended period of time. 

Sir Tom -- I agree that pooled money gifts are not great.   There is zero memory of the people attached to the gift.  It just avoids bad gifts, is all.   I do give cash at weddings, but usually for people that I don't know very well personally, or well enough to buy a gift for, or logistically I don't see them normally, and can't physically get an actual gift to them, so money at the reception is a lot easier for everyone.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6963
  • Location: United States
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20784 on: August 09, 2018, 10:48:22 AM »


I do make more than my husband, and always have, but it's never been an issue (or much of a topic of discussion), so I can't really comment on that aspect.

The weirdness in pay is partly from DH earning ZERO, for more than year, and living off the wife's (low, because first "career" role) income.


We've been in this situation a few times; both with my husband not working and me not working. It's never been weird at all. Our marriage has always been a partnership with pooled resources- who makes the money is of zero consideration. There has always been a reason for no income (student, recently laid off, medical, haven't found a new job after a move, etc) - neither of us ever didn't work out of laziness. 

Prairie Stash

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1549
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20785 on: August 09, 2018, 12:34:25 PM »
Isn't valuing an experience over stuff an important concept though? (given, this is totally a ridiculous experience given their financial/job status)

I totally like the way the trend is going to give money instead of *things*... but that's just me.

PS. I did get a lovely ceramic knife for Xmas once from a sibling. It started my new love affair with ceramic knives...

True. I don't want to devalue the experience for them. I guess it is just hard for me to swallow the fact that my hypothetical money contribution, along with the contributions of all my friends, are just going to end up paying for some hotel...
Get over it, they'll be returning the knives for cash. Giving them knives is just an inconvenience, you accomplish nothing but annoyance for the sake of feeling smug.

The entire point of the registry is to avoid the gaffe you are committing. Now they have to feign a smile and do an awkward thank you for something they didn't desire at this point; don't be a jerk and tell them how they'll appreciate it in the future either. Have you ever received a gift you didn't want? Like wool socks when you're five, five year olds don't want socks, they want toys and games (I want wool socks, but I'm old). I give my five year old socks because thats how kids learn to feign smiles so they can avoid creating scenes in the future when unwitting gift givers think the world should conform to their values and not to the recipient. Don't worry, she still gets toys (I'm not a real ginch).

Its still an idea I dislike (an overly expensive honeymoon, ugh), but don't compound the errors. We can teach people to become mustachian, don't force it on them.

Jouer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20786 on: August 09, 2018, 12:48:36 PM »
Isn't valuing an experience over stuff an important concept though? (given, this is totally a ridiculous experience given their financial/job status)

I totally like the way the trend is going to give money instead of *things*... but that's just me.

PS. I did get a lovely ceramic knife for Xmas once from a sibling. It started my new love affair with ceramic knives...

True. I don't want to devalue the experience for them. I guess it is just hard for me to swallow the fact that my hypothetical money contribution, along with the contributions of all my friends, are just going to end up paying for some hotel...

When giving a present, it's not about what you value/want. It's what the giftee values/wants.

solon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1384
  • Age: 1818
  • Location: CO
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20787 on: August 09, 2018, 01:17:40 PM »
Isn't valuing an experience over stuff an important concept though? (given, this is totally a ridiculous experience given their financial/job status)

I totally like the way the trend is going to give money instead of *things*... but that's just me.

PS. I did get a lovely ceramic knife for Xmas once from a sibling. It started my new love affair with ceramic knives...

True. I don't want to devalue the experience for them. I guess it is just hard for me to swallow the fact that my hypothetical money contribution, along with the contributions of all my friends, are just going to end up paying for some hotel...

When giving a present, it's not about what you value/want. It's what the giftee values/wants.


Sir Tom of Ato

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20788 on: August 09, 2018, 01:25:04 PM »
When giving a present, it's not about what you value/want. It's what the giftee values/wants.

...Its still an idea I dislike (an overly expensive honeymoon, ugh), but don't compound the errors. We can teach people to become mustachian, don't force it on them.

Wow I guess I hadn't really thought about it this way...hmmm. Now I'm conflicted...I suppose I will have to think some more before I make a decision. Maybe I should give them some money and just a single really big knife :)


gooki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2323
  • Location: NZ
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20789 on: August 10, 2018, 03:40:54 AM »
That's a bit murdery.

Imma

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
  • Location: Europe
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20790 on: August 10, 2018, 02:59:31 PM »
One thing I don't get at all are big weddings with honeymoons and big gifts and a wedding registry etc. Although I've personally never been to a wedding like that, in our social circle people tend to have really low-key weddings. I only hear other people's horror stories. Half of people get divorced anyway, and sometimes I think that there might be a correlation between big expensive weddings and divorce statistics.


LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1051
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20791 on: August 11, 2018, 12:26:42 AM »
One thing I don't get at all are big weddings with honeymoons and big gifts and a wedding registry etc. Although I've personally never been to a wedding like that, in our social circle people tend to have really low-key weddings. I only hear other people's horror stories. Half of people get divorced anyway, and sometimes I think that there might be a correlation between big expensive weddings and divorce statistics.

There is. 

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/01/25/expensive-wedding-higher-odds-divorce/

MissNancyPryor

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Northwest USA
  • The Stewardess is Flying the Plane!
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20792 on: August 11, 2018, 01:05:35 PM »
Feeling mildly guilty about judging here, but here goes:

Nice fellow at work leaves the parking garage behind me and notices that I have a different car than he remembers.  I notice he also has something different in my rear view mirror but think nothing of it, whatever.  Nice fellow wants to tell me about his new car though so he uses the chance encounter to ask about my car and I reciprocate with the question about his. 

My car:  2015 Honda CR-V bought in January 2018 at the Alfa Romeo dealership.  They had it as a trade-in sitting on their lot since September 2017 with only 15K miles and I snapped it up for cash at a great price, and it has all the premo stuff.  I got rid of the car I had been driving for 9 years up to this point which had also been bought as a 5YO used car (it was a 2004 model I bought for cash in 2009). 

His car:  2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio, coincidenally bought at the same dealership this month.  He ordered it special and it has all the premo stuff.  Payments.  He is 60 and will be working a while longer since he is aiming for the company pension and SS as he knows you are expected to do, no thought of any other plan.

He seems very content and is pleased as punch about his car, just absolutely loves it.  I see the same car and it makes my skin crawl, I just couldn't do that with my money, but I nodded with enthusiasm and didn't question the choice at all.  Not my business.  The guy talks about wanting to retire now and again but is not a big complainer so I think he is living the life he wants. 

But to me the difference is so stark when you compare goals and life plans and habits of consumption.  The fact that we bought the cars at the exact same dealership with drastically different mindsets is interesting indeed.  It makes me wonder if there will be a shadow of doubt crossing his mind about the choice when I leave as an extremely early retiree and he is still there.  Probably not though.             

markbike528CBX

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 774
  • Location: the Everbrown part of the Evergreen State (WA)
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20793 on: August 11, 2018, 04:31:59 PM »
I hope it was the Quadrifoglio 505hp, otherwise it is the same as the CR-V ( a nice, but sort of generic SUV/crossover)

MissNancyPryor

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Northwest USA
  • The Stewardess is Flying the Plane!
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20794 on: August 11, 2018, 04:39:57 PM »
Not totally sure if he went full hog and got that or just got the Lusso AWD.  He was commenting that he went on a long road trip down to Dusty (you know where that is, neighbor of mine) and the thing had some serious hunker down mode that meant he barely had to pay attention while it hugged the curves of the Palouse.  Sounded like a very fun ride except for the drag created by the payment book flapping the breeze behind him ;-)


markbike528CBX

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 774
  • Location: the Everbrown part of the Evergreen State (WA)
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20795 on: August 11, 2018, 04:59:28 PM »
I've only been through Dusty once or twice, and didn't remember it, had to do a google map lookup.

I can visualize the flapping payment book.  Nice turn of phrase.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8103
  • Registered member
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20796 on: August 11, 2018, 09:50:58 PM »
Not totally sure if he went full hog and got that or just got the Lusso AWD.  He was commenting that he went on a long road trip down to Dusty (you know where that is, neighbor of mine) and the thing had some serious hunker down mode that meant he barely had to pay attention while it hugged the curves of the Palouse.  Sounded like a very fun ride except for the drag created by the payment book flapping the breeze behind him ;-)

Wtf is a hunker down mode?

Just Joe

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2090
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20797 on: August 12, 2018, 05:17:18 PM »
Feeling mildly guilty about judging here, but here goes:

Nice fellow at work leaves the parking garage behind me and notices that I have a different car than he remembers.  I notice he also has something different in my rear view mirror but think nothing of it, whatever.  Nice fellow wants to tell me about his new car though so he uses the chance encounter to ask about my car and I reciprocate with the question about his. 

My car:  2015 Honda CR-V bought in January 2018 at the Alfa Romeo dealership.  They had it as a trade-in sitting on their lot since September 2017 with only 15K miles and I snapped it up for cash at a great price, and it has all the premo stuff.  I got rid of the car I had been driving for 9 years up to this point which had also been bought as a 5YO used car (it was a 2004 model I bought for cash in 2009). 

His car:  2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio, coincidenally bought at the same dealership this month.  He ordered it special and it has all the premo stuff.  Payments.  He is 60 and will be working a while longer since he is aiming for the company pension and SS as he knows you are expected to do, no thought of any other plan.

He seems very content and is pleased as punch about his car, just absolutely loves it.  I see the same car and it makes my skin crawl, I just couldn't do that with my money, but I nodded with enthusiasm and didn't question the choice at all.  Not my business.  The guy talks about wanting to retire now and again but is not a big complainer so I think he is living the life he wants. 

But to me the difference is so stark when you compare goals and life plans and habits of consumption.  The fact that we bought the cars at the exact same dealership with drastically different mindsets is interesting indeed.  It makes me wonder if there will be a shadow of doubt crossing his mind about the choice when I leave as an extremely early retiree and he is still there.  Probably not though.           

Did you buy his trade-in?

nick663

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 233
  • Location: midwest
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20798 on: August 12, 2018, 05:53:01 PM »
Not totally sure if he went full hog and got that or just got the Lusso AWD.  He was commenting that he went on a long road trip down to Dusty (you know where that is, neighbor of mine) and the thing had some serious hunker down mode that meant he barely had to pay attention while it hugged the curves of the Palouse.  Sounded like a very fun ride except for the drag created by the payment book flapping the breeze behind him ;-)

Wtf is a hunker down mode?
I assume he was referring to some kind of sport mode.  Not familiar with the Alfa but most higher end vehicles have semi active or active dampers with tunes that can completely change the character of the vehicle.

Just Joe

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2090
Re: Overheard at Work
« Reply #20799 on: August 13, 2018, 09:56:36 AM »
Some of these cars will also lower the suspension when they are put into sport mode. Don't know if the Alfa-Romeos have this feature.