Author Topic: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition  (Read 273402 times)

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #200 on: January 01, 2015, 09:47:19 PM »
P=.1?  Really?  As someone whose undergrad had a concentration in stats, that scares me.  We teach freshman year stats students that significance is .05 or less (for some fields even .01).  I am in research and if someone even did a poster with .1, I'd be rolling my eyes.  What kind of engineering do you do?
from my experience either Deutsche Bahn Wettervorhersage or something with terrorism.

Too many quotes, cannot tell who I am responding to anymore.

Semiconductor process engineering.  Generally, we have fairly limited sample sets on our planned experiments.  A lot of our data comes from massive "in line" data sets with a lot of confounding and unknown variables.  So our data analysis is one of the two.  A small sample set of 6-10, or a very large set with a lot of unknowns.

That said, if we run an experiment with several variables (2-7, generally), and one of them comes out around 0.1 or lower, it's an indication of a correlation. In that case, we would continue with more experiments, where we would focus our attention on that variable (or those, if there are more than one that fell into that category), and attempt to hold the remaining uncorrelated variables constant.

There's a lot of noise and a lot of "unintentional" differences.

babysnowbyrd

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #201 on: January 02, 2015, 01:24:44 AM »
Now this one's getting foamy...

JustPlainBill

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #202 on: January 02, 2015, 11:52:12 AM »
Just pilfer the important office supplies (pens, Post-Its, highlighters, laptops if u can), sell them on EBay, and make life simple.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #203 on: January 15, 2015, 03:39:54 PM »
So my office-mate is getting married next year and just bought a house in our pricey area.  He decided it's time to stop living paycheck to paycheck, so he started taking a certain amount of cash out of the bank weekly, and when it's gone, it's gone.

He also started packing lunch more.

First week? He only spent half (of course his girl friend called him cheap, but she'll get over it I think)

bigalsmith101

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #204 on: January 16, 2015, 01:11:51 AM »
I had a unique experience today.

I work as a traveling delivery contractor for Home Depot. I travel all over the country filling specific roles when necessary, and so I get to meet people from all over the US. It's pretty awesome.

Today, the delivery to be made, was a lumber package for a property for one of the home depot employees. Nothing odd about this so far, just some guy buying wood for his new house. Awesome.

 But then I find that it's actually the lumber package for ONLY the ground floor of a two story, 8 unit, multi family resident.

Then I get to the delivery site and realize that 8-plex number on is already built/leased, this is 8-plex number 2, and the foundation for the 3rd scheduled is for the spring, and the 4th/5th soon after.

Then I find out that there's two 6-plexes on the plans as well.

This son-nom-beech is 43, won't commit to tell me how many CURRENT units he already owns, but is currently in the process of adding 52 unites ((5 units x 8)+(2 units x 6)) to his portfolio by this time next year.

He works at the Home Depot. Annual wage MIGHT be 50k a year.

He told me he bought his first house/property 15 year ago at age 28, it was a Duplex. The light switch flipped when he realized the second unit was paying the mortgage and he was living for free.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 08:10:51 PM by bigalsmith101 »
I spent the first 6 years of "real" life in a self imposed semi retirement, to secure a lifetime of stories. Now it's time to secure the next lifetime through the badassity of FI.

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LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #205 on: January 16, 2015, 01:42:11 AM »
I had a unique experience today.

I work as a traveling delivery contractor for Home Depot. I travel all over the country filling specific roles when necessary, and so I get to meet people from all over the US. It's pretty awesome.

Today, I'm currently in Onalaska, Wisconsin. The delivery to be made, was a lumber package for a property for one of the home depot employees. Nothing odd about this so far, just some guy buying wood for his new house. Awesome.

 But then I find that it's actually the lumber package for ONLY the ground floor of a two story, 8 unit, multi family resident.

Then I get to the delivery site and realize that 8-plex number on is already built/leased, this is 8-plex number 2, and the foundation for the 3rd scheduled is for the spring, and the 4th/5th soon after.

Then I find out that there's two 6-plexes on the plans as well.

This son-nom-beech is 43, won't commit to tell me how many CURRENT units he already owns, but is currently in the process of adding 52 unites ((5 units x 8)+(2 units x 6)) to his portfolio by this time next year.

He works at the Home Depot. Annual wage MIGHT be 50k a year.

He told me he bought his first house/property 15 year ago at age 28, it was a Duplex. The light switch flipped when he realized the second unit was paying the mortgage and he was living for free.
Why does he still work at Home Deopt? Does he get everything he need for his houses cheaper?
That said, after my first 52 units I would definitely have stopped working anyway lol.
If he goes on with this speed he has build a whole town when he is dead.

bigalsmith101

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #206 on: January 16, 2015, 02:21:59 AM »
I had a unique experience today.

I work as a traveling delivery contractor for Home Depot. I travel all over the country filling specific roles when necessary, and so I get to meet people from all over the US. It's pretty awesome.

Today, I'm currently in Onalaska, Wisconsin. The delivery to be made, was a lumber package for a property for one of the home depot employees. Nothing odd about this so far, just some guy buying wood for his new house. Awesome.

 But then I find that it's actually the lumber package for ONLY the ground floor of a two story, 8 unit, multi family resident.

Then I get to the delivery site and realize that 8-plex number on is already built/leased, this is 8-plex number 2, and the foundation for the 3rd scheduled is for the spring, and the 4th/5th soon after.

Then I find out that there's two 6-plexes on the plans as well.

This son-nom-beech is 43, won't commit to tell me how many CURRENT units he already owns, but is currently in the process of adding 52 unites ((5 units x 8)+(2 units x 6)) to his portfolio by this time next year.

He works at the Home Depot. Annual wage MIGHT be 50k a year.

He told me he bought his first house/property 15 year ago at age 28, it was a Duplex. The light switch flipped when he realized the second unit was paying the mortgage and he was living for free.
Why does he still work at Home Deopt? Does he get everything he need for his houses cheaper?
That said, after my first 52 units I would definitely have stopped working anyway lol.
If he goes on with this speed he has build a whole town when he is dead.

I'm headed back to work tomorrow and will have the opportunity to answer this better. He has owned at least a few duplexes for over 10 years, but I don't know how many other properties he owns besides the 52 units he is currently building. He would only say, "yea, you know, a few"

He's a 50/50 partner in this particular property investment with some other guy (young at age 38).

During the delivery I met the general contractor for the buildings and he told met that each 8-plex costs about $600k to build. The land was $40k per 8-plex. Each unit in the 8-plex rents for $917/Unit.

Assuming he bought the land for each unit with cash,  a 30 yr / $600k mortgage at 4.5% would cost him $3706/mo.

Income will be $917x8 @ $7336/mo  - $3706 = $3630/unit/mo

5units at $3630 = $18150/mo divided by two for 50% share is $9075/mo

Not sure how much the future 6plex's will cost/earn, but undoubtedly they will be profitable.

On my way out the door, I looked him straight in the face, and asked him "Why are you still here, working at Home Depot? When will you walk away? Anyone with half a brain can see that these new rental units will earn you a 2-3 multiple per month of what you could possibly earn here, NOT including the earned equity."

He didn't answer as a customer interrupted. I aim to find out when I get back to the store!
I spent the first 6 years of "real" life in a self imposed semi retirement, to secure a lifetime of stories. Now it's time to secure the next lifetime through the badassity of FI.

"I achieved such a high level of badassity I just don't realize how normal people miss the whole process." --Le Barbu

GrayGhost

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #207 on: January 16, 2015, 01:10:50 PM »
He probably does it for fun and to maintain a social life, or something like that. Sounds like a cool guy.
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babysnowbyrd

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #208 on: January 16, 2015, 01:31:25 PM »
I hope it's for fun. I'll be sad if he's stuck spending most of his earnings to keep pace with consumerism. I hope he's psychologically free and happy and just likes what he's doing.

bigalsmith101

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #209 on: January 16, 2015, 08:10:12 PM »
He probably does it for fun and to maintain a social life, or something like that. Sounds like a cool guy.

I hope it's for fun. I'll be sad if he's stuck spending most of his earnings to keep pace with consumerism. I hope he's psychologically free and happy and just likes what he's doing.

I'm not yet certain if he's got the capacity, either mentally or fiscally to retire. I get the picture that he probably doesn't have a clear path outlined.

When I brought up the 5% 401k matching offered by Home Depot while sitting around the front desk. I asked a couple of the people there if they contribute. The response, "Pssssh. Uh, no."

However, I brought it up with the property guru and he looked at me aghast when I told him about the others. "BUT IT'S FREE MONEY!" he said. Yes, I know man, but you can't change people. To which we agreed.

The topic came up about retirement. He couldn't possibly be earning as much as his passive investments. He agreed that no, he couldn't. I asked him, when are you going to quit? He said, you know I have two young sons, they play hockey, it's an expensive sport. I'm still young, and it gives me something to do during the day.

I laughed, and told him he doesn't get paid enough to do what he does, and should become a full time stay at home dad :)

I made a quip about the fallacy of working past the point that your passive investment income is larger than your current living expenses. It's a case of the CREEP / What-if-itis that keeps people working. It took my dad 4 years to FINALLY accept/realize that he didn't need to go to work anymore. He could stop. And so he retired overnight.

This man has an acute case of the creep, and what-if-itis. He doesn't have the formal knowledge of what his total investments are really capable of. He hasn't done the math.  I'm only 43, he said. (Like he didn't think that was old enough to retire yet... WRONG!)

I told him I had a 7-8 year plan and he looked up suddenly and blanched. Wait, you're 28 right, that puts you at 35/36? Really, you'll be able to /plan to retire that soon?

I said, I sure as hell plan on it. Whether or not it happens is circumstantial, but it's all about the F-U money. Earning the right to be free for yourself, such that you determine the next step, not someone else.

He agreed with that. This guy is inherently Mustachian, but doesn't know his true capacity.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 08:12:58 PM by bigalsmith101 »
I spent the first 6 years of "real" life in a self imposed semi retirement, to secure a lifetime of stories. Now it's time to secure the next lifetime through the badassity of FI.

"I achieved such a high level of badassity I just don't realize how normal people miss the whole process." --Le Barbu

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #210 on: January 16, 2015, 09:18:36 PM »
He probably does it for fun and to maintain a social life, or something like that. Sounds like a cool guy.

I hope it's for fun. I'll be sad if he's stuck spending most of his earnings to keep pace with consumerism. I hope he's psychologically free and happy and just likes what he's doing.

I'm not yet certain if he's got the capacity, either mentally or fiscally to retire. I get the picture that he probably doesn't have a clear path outlined.

When I brought up the 5% 401k matching offered by Home Depot while sitting around the front desk. I asked a couple of the people there if they contribute. The response, "Pssssh. Uh, no."

However, I brought it up with the property guru and he looked at me aghast when I told him about the others. "BUT IT'S FREE MONEY!" he said. Yes, I know man, but you can't change people. To which we agreed.

The topic came up about retirement. He couldn't possibly be earning as much as his passive investments. He agreed that no, he couldn't. I asked him, when are you going to quit? He said, you know I have two young sons, they play hockey, it's an expensive sport. I'm still young, and it gives me something to do during the day.

I laughed, and told him he doesn't get paid enough to do what he does, and should become a full time stay at home dad :)

I made a quip about the fallacy of working past the point that your passive investment income is larger than your current living expenses. It's a case of the CREEP / What-if-itis that keeps people working. It took my dad 4 years to FINALLY accept/realize that he didn't need to go to work anymore. He could stop. And so he retired overnight.

This man has an acute case of the creep, and what-if-itis. He doesn't have the formal knowledge of what his total investments are really capable of. He hasn't done the math.  I'm only 43, he said. (Like he didn't think that was old enough to retire yet... WRONG!)

I told him I had a 7-8 year plan and he looked up suddenly and blanched. Wait, you're 28 right, that puts you at 35/36? Really, you'll be able to /plan to retire that soon?

I said, I sure as hell plan on it. Whether or not it happens is circumstantial, but it's all about the F-U money. Earning the right to be free for yourself, such that you determine the next step, not someone else.

He agreed with that. This guy is inherently Mustachian, but doesn't know his true capacity.

I mean, this guy is doing well but it sounds like he has a very concentrated bet in a particular rental market.  Maybe he recognizes the danger in that.

On the other hand, maybe he's just working at HD for fun.  HD always seemed like it could be a pretty fun laid back job (minus holidays).   Leave the guy alone :)

bigalsmith101

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #211 on: January 17, 2015, 09:13:14 AM »
Quote
I mean, this guy is doing well but it sounds like he has a very concentrated bet in a particular rental market.  Maybe he recognizes the danger in that.

On the other hand, maybe he's just working at HD for fun.  HD always seemed like it could be a pretty fun laid back job (minus holidays).   Leave the guy alone :)

The rental units were a 6-7 year long plan in the making. They are within 10 minutes of a major manufacturing plant that has been busy for the past 20 years. There is a severe lack of housing in the area. It's a calculated risk, which he recognizes. If the market for the manufacturing plants dry up, he'll be left with some vacant rentals...

He's definitely a laid back dude, working a laid back position at HD. It's fun to meet a guy like him!
I spent the first 6 years of "real" life in a self imposed semi retirement, to secure a lifetime of stories. Now it's time to secure the next lifetime through the badassity of FI.

"I achieved such a high level of badassity I just don't realize how normal people miss the whole process." --Le Barbu

ender

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #212 on: January 21, 2015, 07:05:56 PM »
Found out several of my coworkers max out their 401k's, all of whom are mid-30s or younger..

johnny847

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #213 on: January 21, 2015, 07:12:10 PM »
Found out several of my coworkers max out their 401k's, all of whom are mid-30s or younger..
Whoo!
Have you mentioned MMM to them at all? Sounds like they'd be receptive.

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #214 on: January 26, 2015, 10:29:07 AM »

This forum is majority female:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-gender-are-you/
So, from 355 votes (and I think males vote less on that) you say that the majority of of 14682 total members is male?
Get a statistics class please ;)
(On that a sidenote: NEVER trust a poll where you dont know the excact question and how they did it. Depeding on the wording of the question alone you can get 91% for and 92% against something.)

On the topic of assumptions: Most forums have male dominance. Males do more internet, too.

Running a quick Chi square test with an assumed 50/50 distribution, we get a two-tailed P=0.064, which is barely not enough to reject the null hypothesis that there are as many men as women on this forum (P>0.05). A bigger N actually may have pushed it over to prove that there are more women than men here.

It of course does not assume any selection bias, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the phrasing of a question of gender, since it's not an ambiguous question (as opposed to "are you for or against" type questions). I would not assume that most people on this forum are men.

.064 hints very, very strongly, more strongly than other stuff that has been acted upon before.
.064 is not statistically significant.  All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough.  However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know.

In the interest of stopping this discussion... here is the alexa data on MMM users. (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mrmoneymustache.com+)
That was interesting.

I'm no statistician (and my grad school stats class was almost 2 decades ago), but in my engineering job, if I get 0.1, we consider it a very strong suggestion of a correlation.
P=.1?  Really?  As someone whose undergrad had a concentration in stats, that scares me.  We teach freshman year stats students that significance is .05 or less (for some fields even .01).  I am in research and if someone even did a poster with .1, I'd be rolling my eyes.  What kind of engineering do you do?

You wouldn't take this as a hint that you might be looking in the right direction? Really? "Guys, P was only .1, we have nothing here. Scrap it."

I wouldn't put it in a paper, but with a limited sample, it's a nice clue.
As I said ".064 is not statistically significant.  All it hints is that we may be able to get significance if we increase the N large enough.  However, for a survey over 300 is normally enough unless their is bias, which I don't know."   Given that the sample size is large enough, unless there is data to suggest that one gender does online surveys more than the other, there is nothing more to be done.  It is not like the sample size is ten or something.

I have a headache now.

Relevant. http://xkcd.com/1478/

JetBlast

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #215 on: January 28, 2015, 11:34:44 PM »
On my commute home yesterday I got to chatting with one of the flight attendants and the subject of work schedules came up. He said he was working six days in a row, one off, then six more in a row. I commented that it sounded pretty tiring and he said "It's what I bid for. I'm trying to pay off my 30 year mortgage in nine years."

partgypsy

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #216 on: January 29, 2015, 05:37:50 AM »
I don't have much to contribute to the other thread. Maybe the people I work with are not representative of usual American employees? I work at a federal research center. As you know we went 3, 4 years without a cost of living increase. At least on my floor (thinking about our shared kitchen) most people bring their home cooked leftovers for lunch, do not dress flashy (or dress more casual than I do (IT), I can think of only a couple expensive cars in our department. An older gentlemen bikes to and from work even though he lives 15, 20 miles away, and often shares produce from his garden. Gardening/homesteading seems like a popular occupation.
I went to a mid year retirement with some of them, and one of them who I think is the same age or a little younger than me, was disappointed she could not retire and get her health benefits before her earliest retirement age (56 or 57). So I think she is already ready to retire, financially speaking, but is going to wait so she can have continuity with her health insurance. 
So basically I'm the slacker compared to a number of these people.

aetherie

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #217 on: February 04, 2015, 09:32:02 AM »
Two from today:

CW1: "I just cancelled my Amazon Prime account. Figured I wasn't using $99 worth of two-day shipping in a year."

And after the topic of credit card rewards came up, CW2 told us that his wife is super into credit card/travel hacking and their recent trip to Vegas was completely paid for by points.

russianswinga

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #218 on: February 04, 2015, 12:25:23 PM »

CW1: "I just cancelled my Amazon Prime account. Figured I wasn't using $99 worth of two-day shipping in a year."


My wife and I make good use of our Prime. Between that and Costco, it fills 85% of our household needs. Everything from cat food to diapers, faucets for bathroom remodel (a necessity, not a luxury), etc.

My "Prime" hack is that my university I graduated from 10 years ago grandfathered email addresses for life, forwarded to any address of your choice. So I have a @edu email address, making my Prime a Student account, at 1/2 the membership fee.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #219 on: February 05, 2015, 03:46:09 AM »
isnt Amazon more expensive then buying where you are?
At least it is 30%-50% more then in the supermarket here in germany.

GrayGhost

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #220 on: February 05, 2015, 01:51:55 PM »
It really depends. For some things, like HDMI cables, Amazon offers reasonable prices whereas convenience stores and the big boxes are often extortionate. For other things, like food, Amazon is more expenses.

Bottom line is to shop around.
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LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #221 on: February 05, 2015, 02:12:56 PM »
It really depends. For some things, like HDMI cables, Amazon offers reasonable prices whereas convenience stores and the big boxes are often extortionate. For other things, like food, Amazon is more expenses.

Bottom line is to shop around.
lol ok, never buy cables in stores, its cheaper even with the 3€ post cost.

But I dont buy (non-eat)-things that often that the price would be justified. At least not things I would send. Never considered toilet paper something to be send ;) Or most of other "household needs". That also includes things for pets and babies, even if here would be one

bigalsmith101

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #222 on: February 09, 2015, 09:37:47 PM »
I just had this conversation last night with a friend. We were chatting about our previous travels. We met in Peru while we were both on the road (she's currently traveling now in Argentina after returning to South America 4 years later). She asked me when/where I would probably head to next.

This is how the following conversation reads:
Coworker: So you are deciding between playing it safe with the current job, or traveling to work abroad again?
Me: Honestly I see very little chance that I will live and work anywhere in a foreign country in the next 7-10 years. I'm on a 7-10 year plan to retirement. Believe it or not, our cost of living is so low (we're super damn frugal) that if our incomes meet the standardized average for where we live, and we save/invest the rest we'll end up with enough wealth to generate a passive income by that time. And, I work from home, honestly enjoy my job, have a awesome time with my friends where I live, and though and wistful of traveling allllll the time, I realize that there is greater potential for me in the short term if I buckle down and invest my time in earning money to support my future retirement well before the age of 40. So, that being said, I will put my massive traveling urges on a rather long hiatus, and keep myself happy with short trips while planning my MASSIVE trip for the rest of my life starting in 8-10 years. Ergo, we're planning our expedited path to financial independence so that we can retire early.
Coworker: (Throws me for a huge loop):That makes total sense. The travel lifestyle isn't one that sets you up for life so you need to make your priorities and sounds like you have it all under control.
Me: Well, thanks! I'm glad you can relate!
Coworker: Of course. I just bought a house last month, massive commitment. But feeling that same sort of 'need to start setting myself up' pinch
Me: So what are you up to now, you stopped working about 7 months ago yea? But you just bought a house last month($370k AUD), what are the terms on your mortgage.
Coworker: Right, so I don't have one. I came into some money last year, it's complicated. I haven't saved for this myself but thats not something I generally share.
Me: I can appreciate that, finances are a closely guarded thing for most people. I hope everyone in your family is okay.
Coworker: So my father passed away at the end of 2014. After battling cancer for 8 years. And I dont have a mother, so I received what I did because I have no parents. Which isn't an ideal situation but its life!
Me:Damn! That is terrible. I can relate. I send you hugs
Coworker: Thanks
Me:I'm so glad you invested your money. Real Estate is pretty low risk if you buy right.
Coworker: I've got a safety blanket left over. I got some serious finanical planning advice  and got the whole speal about high/low risk etc. I felt I just dont understand shares/bonds etc enough to invest in that. And I can live in my property, I cant live in my shares if it all falls to crap! My biggest fear is fucking it up and blowing it. I mean, I havent even spent any yet - I am living off the interest and rents I am receiving. Though house had a tenant in it when I bought it.
Me:Thank god you have the fear of reason ingrained.
Me: Wait, did you say that you can afford your current lifestyle on the interest you are earning?
Coworker: Yeah, at the moment. I just couldnt think of anything worse than going through everything I did, and the result being anything else than setting myself up for life.
Me: Are you aware that you can essentially retire?
Coworker:Yeah, thats kind of what I have done
Me:That is the whole definition of Financial Independence! Here I am, telling you my secret plan to retire early,  that none of my friends understand, And YOU have already done it.
Coworker: My situation is rather unique. So I understood where you were coming from
Me:You brilliant, beautiful, breath taking success!

Suffice it to say that my friend endured an extreme familial hardship and is now left with no parents at the age of 28. However in light of this, and in lieu of a father that clearly came from a frugal background and understood long term investing, my friend is the heir of a rather sizable sum of money that was nearly immediately invested in a property (and high interest yielding bank accounts) that return 5.9% in rents on the purchase price. She understands the value of money in it's true sense and realizes that it can buy freedom if properly handled. She is a new hero of mine.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 09:41:00 PM by bigalsmith101 »
I spent the first 6 years of "real" life in a self imposed semi retirement, to secure a lifetime of stories. Now it's time to secure the next lifetime through the badassity of FI.

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Adventine

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #223 on: February 09, 2015, 11:53:18 PM »
I just had this conversation last night with a friend. We were chatting about our previous travels. We met in Peru while we were both on the road (she's currently traveling now in Argentina after returning to South America 4 years later). She asked me when/where I would probably head to next.

This is how the following conversation reads:
Coworker: So you are deciding between playing it safe with the current job, or traveling to work abroad again?
Me: Honestly I see very little chance that I will live and work anywhere in a foreign country in the next 7-10 years. I'm on a 7-10 year plan to retirement. Believe it or not, our cost of living is so low (we're super damn frugal) that if our incomes meet the standardized average for where we live, and we save/invest the rest we'll end up with enough wealth to generate a passive income by that time. And, I work from home, honestly enjoy my job, have a awesome time with my friends where I live, and though and wistful of traveling allllll the time, I realize that there is greater potential for me in the short term if I buckle down and invest my time in earning money to support my future retirement well before the age of 40. So, that being said, I will put my massive traveling urges on a rather long hiatus, and keep myself happy with short trips while planning my MASSIVE trip for the rest of my life starting in 8-10 years. Ergo, we're planning our expedited path to financial independence so that we can retire early.
Coworker: (Throws me for a huge loop):That makes total sense. The travel lifestyle isn't one that sets you up for life so you need to make your priorities and sounds like you have it all under control.
Me: Well, thanks! I'm glad you can relate!
Coworker: Of course. I just bought a house last month, massive commitment. But feeling that same sort of 'need to start setting myself up' pinch
Me: So what are you up to now, you stopped working about 7 months ago yea? But you just bought a house last month($370k AUD), what are the terms on your mortgage.
Coworker: Right, so I don't have one. I came into some money last year, it's complicated. I haven't saved for this myself but thats not something I generally share.
Me: I can appreciate that, finances are a closely guarded thing for most people. I hope everyone in your family is okay.
Coworker: So my father passed away at the end of 2014. After battling cancer for 8 years. And I dont have a mother, so I received what I did because I have no parents. Which isn't an ideal situation but its life!
Me:Damn! That is terrible. I can relate. I send you hugs
Coworker: Thanks
Me:I'm so glad you invested your money. Real Estate is pretty low risk if you buy right.
Coworker: I've got a safety blanket left over. I got some serious finanical planning advice  and got the whole speal about high/low risk etc. I felt I just dont understand shares/bonds etc enough to invest in that. And I can live in my property, I cant live in my shares if it all falls to crap! My biggest fear is fucking it up and blowing it. I mean, I havent even spent any yet - I am living off the interest and rents I am receiving. Though house had a tenant in it when I bought it.
Me:Thank god you have the fear of reason ingrained.
Me: Wait, did you say that you can afford your current lifestyle on the interest you are earning?
Coworker: Yeah, at the moment. I just couldnt think of anything worse than going through everything I did, and the result being anything else than setting myself up for life.
Me: Are you aware that you can essentially retire?
Coworker:Yeah, thats kind of what I have done
Me:That is the whole definition of Financial Independence! Here I am, telling you my secret plan to retire early,  that none of my friends understand, And YOU have already done it.
Coworker: My situation is rather unique. So I understood where you were coming from
Me:You brilliant, beautiful, breath taking success!

Suffice it to say that my friend endured an extreme familial hardship and is now left with no parents at the age of 28. However in light of this, and in lieu of a father that clearly came from a frugal background and understood long term investing, my friend is the heir of a rather sizable sum of money that was nearly immediately invested in a property (and high interest yielding bank accounts) that return 5.9% in rents on the purchase price. She understands the value of money in it's true sense and realizes that it can buy freedom if properly handled. She is a new hero of mine.


That is amazing. I'm glad you found somebody who not only understands the FIRE lifestyle, but is living it already!

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #224 on: February 11, 2015, 11:06:20 AM »

CW1: "I just cancelled my Amazon Prime account. Figured I wasn't using $99 worth of two-day shipping in a year."


My wife and I make good use of our Prime. Between that and Costco, it fills 85% of our household needs. Everything from cat food to diapers, faucets for bathroom remodel (a necessity, not a luxury), etc.

My "Prime" hack is that my university I graduated from 10 years ago grandfathered email addresses for life, forwarded to any address of your choice. So I have a @edu email address, making my Prime a Student account, at 1/2 the membership fee.

I'm pretty sure you're allowed to buy those things on amazon without prime.. I just use some foresight and get $35 worth of stuff and wait 5 days. Of course for most people this is an insane sacrifice they couldn't imagine. "waiting for something??! no way. Need it nauww!"

edit: I'm aware there are diaper savings with prime. I did the math and it would about pay for the subscription..
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 11:31:02 AM by Scandium »

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #225 on: February 20, 2015, 01:41:51 PM »
Anyone who pays for netflix (in lieu of cable for example) should just get prime instead. Prime comes out to 8.25/month and Netflix is 8.99/month. In addition to the shipping you get:
- movies and TV (similar selection to netflix)
- music (admittedly I don't use this)
- free book borrow/month if you have a kindle
And probably other stuff I'm not using. Amex has been offering a free year of prime and 200 reward for new cards (after 3 months and spending 1k I believe, I did it before xmas which helped me hit the target between travel & gifts), just get it for free!

I'm also really enjoying the $1 credit Amazon has begun offering for no rush shipping, as I don't need everything order in 2 days (just sometimes! :-)) and have got several free books with my promo credits the last few months.


Now I actually came on her to post about my CW (not sales pitches for prime), we frequently have anti-anti-mustachian conversations. Today she tells me her cousin has offered to arrange a hair stylist/makeup for anyone attending her wedding that wants one for $100 each! This is not just for people in the wedding party, my CW isn't a bridesmaid or anything like that, just attending.

She tells me this saying it's a ridiculous amount of money to pay for someone to do her hair and instead she is going to come to my house before the wedding and have me do it for her for free (I offered).
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Pooperman

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #226 on: February 20, 2015, 01:52:02 PM »
A former coworker (from my last job) is going on "sabbatical" (retiring). She's around 50, and that's a win in my book! She says she will probably work part time for a while after she's not burnt out anymore. Of all the coworkers I ever had, she was the most likely to pull this off. It's very different knowing retiring early is possible as compared with knowing someone who has actually done it!

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #227 on: February 20, 2015, 02:11:14 PM »
Anyone who pays for netflix (in lieu of cable for example) should just get prime instead. Prime comes out to 8.25/month and Netflix is 8.99/month. In addition to the shipping you get:
- movies and TV (similar selection to netflix)
- music (admittedly I don't use this)
- free book borrow/month if you have a kindle
And probably other stuff I'm not using. Amex has been offering a free year of prime and 200 reward for new cards (after 3 months and spending 1k I believe, I did it before xmas which helped me hit the target between travel & gifts), just get it for free!

I'm also really enjoying the $1 credit Amazon has begun offering for no rush shipping, as I don't need everything order in 2 days (just sometimes! :-)) and have got several free books with my promo credits the last few months.


Now I actually came on her to post about my CW (not sales pitches for prime), we frequently have anti-anti-mustachian conversations. Today she tells me her cousin has offered to arrange a hair stylist/makeup for anyone attending her wedding that wants one for $100 each! This is not just for people in the wedding party, my CW isn't a bridesmaid or anything like that, just attending.

She tells me this saying it's a ridiculous amount of money to pay for someone to do her hair and instead she is going to come to my house before the wedding and have me do it for her for free (I offered).

Is the selection really similar to netflix?  If true, I'd seriously consider your advice.  I'm guessing they don't have House of Cards though...

I'm having a hard time even determining... like I search for various TV shows and see maybe the DVD of season 1 -- does that mean it's just that season?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 02:13:45 PM by dragoncar »

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #228 on: February 20, 2015, 02:24:47 PM »
Is the selection really similar to netflix?  If true, I'd seriously consider your advice.  I'm guessing they don't have House of Cards though...

Similar enough that both Amazon and Netflix are busy developing their own exclusives. They probably are well aware of people like me with both at the moment but thinking about dropping one.

1967mama

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #229 on: February 20, 2015, 03:16:48 PM »
We have been binge watching documentaries from the library lately with our kids. We have so many out right now that I'm not sure we will have enough evenings to watch them all!

Recently, while away for a weekend, I watched a ton of PBS shows on cable at the free place we were staying at. When one came on that I liked, I jumped on my laptop and ordered it from the library. Almost all the shows were available.

So glad we cut our cable last year!

Megma

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #230 on: February 20, 2015, 07:28:34 PM »
There's a lot of overlap of prime and Netflix but the library isn't exactly the same, as dragoncar said the both have their own exclusives for example.

Currently I pay for prime and my bf pays for Netflix and we share. Netflix has more tv and movie content but prime is close (and seems to be improving) and you also get the other benefits I mentioned.
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Gockie

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #231 on: February 23, 2015, 01:45:14 AM »
Wow. Congrats to your coworker bigalsmith. It's so unfortunate in regards to how she got the money, but at least she is using it so wisely. I wish her and you all the best. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #232 on: February 23, 2015, 12:12:43 PM »
Wow. Congrats to your coworker bigalsmith. It's so unfortunate in regards to how she got the money, but at least she is using it so wisely. I wish her and you all the best. Thanks for sharing!

She's backpacking around Argentina for the moment. Traveling (when you're willing) can be super cheap (hostels, busses, etc). She spends less while on the road then she would at home. She's using this time to figure it all out. I'm jealous, but I wouldn't trade my dad for it, not a chance.
I spent the first 6 years of "real" life in a self imposed semi retirement, to secure a lifetime of stories. Now it's time to secure the next lifetime through the badassity of FI.

"I achieved such a high level of badassity I just don't realize how normal people miss the whole process." --Le Barbu

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #233 on: February 28, 2015, 06:34:48 AM »
An old coworker relayed this quote about her boss commenting on performance reviews. Grading scale was meets/exceeds expectations:

Boss walks out of her office one day and says, "Meets, meet, meets. I look around and all I see are meets. No exceeds." Coworker replies, "Meets leave at 5."

I've had a couple conversations with this CW about overworking - she used to, decided consciously to stop, because what was it getting her? (Answer: a direct report with almost no experience making a higher salary than she did.) I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because for the first time in my life I received a "meets" after a very relaxing year where I deliberately did not go above and beyond. The perfectionist in me is disappointed, but all the other personality types hiding in there are satisfied.
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MLKnits

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #234 on: February 28, 2015, 06:44:44 AM »
At my current gig, this was perhaps a month ago.

Boss:  Let's all go out to lunch today to celebrate the completion of Project X!
Coworker A:  YEAH!  I know just the place.  Sushi.
Coworker B:  Uhh... boss, you're paying, right?
Boss:  Well, not exactly. 
Coworker A:  Aw, who cares?  We get to go out and have fun!
Coworker B:  Pass.  Let me know if you want to actually take us out as a real reward.

So cool - I rarely hear people other than me ask the tough questions in these situations.  Then the bill comes and it's too late.

Jeez. Speaking as a boss, if we go out to celebrate, the office pays. That boss is cheap, not frugal! A few sushi dinners a year is a very, very affordable way to keep my employees happy.

Travis

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #235 on: March 10, 2015, 05:30:54 PM »
Yesterday one of my coworkers asked me what to do with the $90k he has sitting in savings.  Besides suggesting he invest it, I asked what the rest of his portfolio looked like.  He said he and his wife both have IRAs, but he didn't know what was in them.  He hasn't invested in the TSP, and has no other investment accounts (though he has a rental property).  I discussed the basics with him, pointed him towards JlCollins' stock series, talked about expense ratios, and suggested he find out first and foremost where his money actually is.  Anecdotally I told him about my eureka moment getting into Vanguard and the wonders of indexing and he said he'd think about it.  He came to me this morning part shocked and part relieved that he got all the info from his financial institution and that he was not happy with them once he figured out what his IRAs were invested in.  He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay.  I'm not saying he's a full convert, but I'm overjoyed that he's asking the right questions and getting a handle on things.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 06:58:18 PM by Travis »

civil

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #236 on: March 10, 2015, 07:07:30 PM »
The airman next to me came in the other day saying that he didn't like his brokerage, so he had switched to Vanguard. And something about how he wasn't sure about what to do with money and IRAs. I pointed out that if he even knows what an IRA is, and that fees exist, he is doing FAR better than most of the other guys in the office (who complain they can't pay rent because they spent their BAH on sports cars and trucks).... this was followed by discussions of how dumb most people our age are.

This guy will be just fine :)
I kinda wonder if he's on here...

civil

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #237 on: March 10, 2015, 07:16:13 PM »
At my current gig, this was perhaps a month ago.

Boss:  Let's all go out to lunch today to celebrate the completion of Project X!
Coworker A:  YEAH!  I know just the place.  Sushi.
Coworker B:  Uhh... boss, you're paying, right?
Boss:  Well, not exactly. 
Coworker A:  Aw, who cares?  We get to go out and have fun!
Coworker B:  Pass.  Let me know if you want to actually take us out as a real reward.

So cool - I rarely hear people other than me ask the tough questions in these situations.  Then the bill comes and it's too late.

I don't think I'm brave enough (or FI enough) to say that. I default to, "no thanks, that place is over my lunch limit."
My office often pokes fun at me for my "lunch limit" of $4 per lunch. I get really excited when I find a lunch for $4 or less (e.g. coupons, gift cards, adding meals to co-workers' lunches as a side, Costco, splitting pizzas). I usually bring lunch, but my going-out budget is $4 unless it's a retirement luncheon.

This has the side effect of making people really pleased if I agree to normal-price lunch with them.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 07:18:16 PM by traffic girl »

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #238 on: March 11, 2015, 08:37:26 AM »
  He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay.

I LOVE it when someone who earns his money doing things for me says his collegues have a bad service. That means he cant say other things about them like "they are worse then me" ;)
Unfortunately I dont have many people working for me. Mustachian problem, I think. :D

As someone with an high IQ, good common sense and necessary google-fu I always had the experience that a "good service" is easily replaceable by a few hours or days of your time once, with benefits for lifetime and a lot of better options afterward.
Never forget that all financial advisers always want your best: your money!

MLKnits

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #239 on: March 11, 2015, 08:51:47 AM »
  He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay.

I LOVE it when someone who earns his money doing things for me says his collegues have a bad service. That means he cant say other things about them like "they are worse then me" ;)
Unfortunately I dont have many people working for me. Mustachian problem, I think. :D

As someone with an high IQ, good common sense and necessary google-fu I always had the experience that a "good service" is easily replaceable by a few hours or days of your time once, with benefits for lifetime and a lot of better options afterward.
Never forget that all financial advisers always want your best: your money!

I recently "fired" my bank advisor to switch to an unmanaged fund at the same bank. The look on his face when he realized what the conversion meant ... I felt pretty bad, I can't lie. We pretty much did the classic, "uh, I'll call you," when it's clear a second date is not on the horizon. Sorry buddy. I'm not gonna call.

Travis

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #240 on: March 11, 2015, 11:29:59 AM »
  He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay.

I LOVE it when someone who earns his money doing things for me says his collegues have a bad service. That means he cant say other things about them like "they are worse then me" ;)
Unfortunately I dont have many people working for me. Mustachian problem, I think. :D

As someone with an high IQ, good common sense and necessary google-fu I always had the experience that a "good service" is easily replaceable by a few hours or days of your time once, with benefits for lifetime and a lot of better options afterward.
Never forget that all financial advisers always want your best: your money!

I recently "fired" my bank advisor to switch to an unmanaged fund at the same bank. The look on his face when he realized what the conversion meant ... I felt pretty bad, I can't lie. We pretty much did the classic, "uh, I'll call you," when it's clear a second date is not on the horizon. Sorry buddy. I'm not gonna call.

With my friend now stepping into uncharted territory, I was able to put some stress aside by informing him that he doesn't even need to fire the previous financial institution himself - the new folks can do that for him.  No hard conversations about loyalty or explaining his actions, just sign a few forms.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #241 on: March 11, 2015, 12:14:55 PM »
  He didn't give me too many details, but he said when he brought up moving to Vanguard the financial specialist got defensive and said Vanguard didn't have good customer service and tried to get him to stay.

I LOVE it when someone who earns his money doing things for me says his collegues have a bad service. That means he cant say other things about them like "they are worse then me" ;)
Unfortunately I dont have many people working for me. Mustachian problem, I think. :D

As someone with an high IQ, good common sense and necessary google-fu I always had the experience that a "good service" is easily replaceable by a few hours or days of your time once, with benefits for lifetime and a lot of better options afterward.
Never forget that all financial advisers always want your best: your money!

I recently "fired" my bank advisor to switch to an unmanaged fund at the same bank. The look on his face when he realized what the conversion meant ... I felt pretty bad, I can't lie. We pretty much did the classic, "uh, I'll call you," when it's clear a second date is not on the horizon. Sorry buddy. I'm not gonna call.

With my friend now stepping into uncharted territory, I was able to put some stress aside by informing him that he doesn't even need to fire the previous financial institution himself - the new folks can do that for him.  No hard conversations about loyalty or explaining his actions, just sign a few forms.


So rude

http://youtu.be/nb0s1AePP2g

Lyngi

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #242 on: March 11, 2015, 10:58:42 PM »
My co-worker let it slip that her house will be paid off next month.  It is freaking awesome because she is a single mom and raised her two kids into happy and independent adults.  She has worked really hard and been really frugal.   We also ate lunch, made by a coworker, for $1.87 per person

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #243 on: March 12, 2015, 12:14:39 AM »
Not at work, but at home (where I'm living until pre-wife moves here when she gets a job)

Now, before I get into it, I'll explain that my dad has been pretty good with his investments and pretty good with his choices. I'd describe him as 70% boglehead, 20% mustachian, and 10% "I'm smarter than most people, I'm going to take some chances" (and he's done actually better than S&P). He likes nice things, luxury cars, too many cars, boats, hi-fi stereos, etc., but always bought used, always shopped at TJ Maxx and Nordstrom Rack. He will be buying a vacation house as soon as the right one is available.

My dads company was just bought out, and he believes he will be let go. After a few initial days of "freaking out" and talking to people at work and people who had coincidentally enough been let go by this same company after being acquired, he sat down and put pencil to paper for probably the first time in his life to figure out exactly how much he has. Long story short, within 2 months he could pay off the house, buy his vacation house, and retire at 61. He's going to keep working because he doesn't mind the work, and chances of a severance package are pretty high. Add into it that nobody really expects him to and everyone thinks he is only in low to mid 50's, and he's going to keep going for another up to 4 years, but we're all hoping they come in with a severance package in about a year.


powersuitrecall

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #244 on: March 21, 2015, 10:51:46 AM »
Man I love this thread.  Great stories. 

The closest I've come to a mustachian encounter at work was to do with weight-loss rather than money, but the sentiment applies:

Me: Wow Bob, you look great!  How have you lost so much weight?
Bob: Doing the things no one likes to do: eating less and exercising more.
Me: Awesome!

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #245 on: March 21, 2015, 12:03:04 PM »
My coworker told me about he and his wife's Hawaii trip a few years ago at a resort. They used a combo of airline miles/cc points so they did it pretty frugally. He ordered 2 piña coladas at the bar, shocked to find out that they were $35-40 each. After that, he went to Wal-Mart to buy a cheap blender/rum/piña colada mix to use the rest of the week and all for less than the cost of the two original drinks.
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seanc0x0

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #246 on: March 21, 2015, 05:36:22 PM »
My coworker told me about he and his wife's Hawaii trip a few years ago at a resort. They used a combo of airline miles/cc points so they did it pretty frugally. He ordered 2 piña coladas at the bar, shocked to find out that they were $35-40 each. After that, he went to Wal-Mart to buy a cheap blender/rum/piña colada mix to use the rest of the week and all for less than the cost of the two original drinks.

$35-$40 each?! That is completely insane!

Great idea on the blender etc, though.  After seeing the prices of the resort drinks I'd be doing that too.

aschmidt2930

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #247 on: March 21, 2015, 09:05:31 PM »
An old coworker relayed this quote about her boss commenting on performance reviews. Grading scale was meets/exceeds expectations:

Boss walks out of her office one day and says, "Meets, meet, meets. I look around and all I see are meets. No exceeds." Coworker replies, "Meets leave at 5."

I've had a couple conversations with this CW about overworking - she used to, decided consciously to stop, because what was it getting her? (Answer: a direct report with almost no experience making a higher salary than she did.) I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because for the first time in my life I received a "meets" after a very relaxing year where I deliberately did not go above and beyond. The perfectionist in me is disappointed, but all the other personality types hiding in there are satisfied.

Eh, somebody being a "direct report" doesn't correlate to a lesser salary as much as you think, nor should it.  Being someones manager doesn't automatically entitle you to a higher salary.  There's a growing number of extremely talented people with specialized skill sets that are incredibly valuable to a company, and their time is simply better spent in a non-management role. 

ThreadPacifist

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #248 on: March 22, 2015, 01:18:56 AM »
One of my co-workers was telling me that he was thinking about buying a new TV with the bonuses we got, but that he decided he would rather save the money. The same co-worker also paid off all of his student loans with a combination of working part-time all through college and the first year's salary. I think he's going to do well.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition
« Reply #249 on: March 25, 2015, 08:15:31 PM »
An old coworker relayed this quote about her boss commenting on performance reviews. Grading scale was meets/exceeds expectations:

Boss walks out of her office one day and says, "Meets, meet, meets. I look around and all I see are meets. No exceeds." Coworker replies, "Meets leave at 5."

I've had a couple conversations with this CW about overworking - she used to, decided consciously to stop, because what was it getting her? (Answer: a direct report with almost no experience making a higher salary than she did.) I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because for the first time in my life I received a "meets" after a very relaxing year where I deliberately did not go above and beyond. The perfectionist in me is disappointed, but all the other personality types hiding in there are satisfied.

Eh, somebody being a "direct report" doesn't correlate to a lesser salary as much as you think, nor should it.  Being someones manager doesn't automatically entitle you to a higher salary.  There's a growing number of extremely talented people with specialized skill sets that are incredibly valuable to a company, and their time is simply better spent in a non-management role.

Yes, I realize this can be the case in certain areas, but the guy was neither extremely talented, nor in possession of a specialized skill set. The main difference is that he was offered a competitive market rate, whereas the director had been at the company for years receiving paltry raises. Over the years I had multiple people tell me that the only way to get a fair salary was to leave the company and come back as an external candidate. When I hired two FT employees in the same week, one internal and one external, I saw firsthand how unfairly the salary offers were calculated.
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