Overheard at Work: The Anti-Antimustachian Edition

[TomTX]

I don’t believe you can buy the iBonds directly with a credit card, but maybe there is a way.

If you overpay your taxes you can get some refund in i bonds .  You can pay taxes with a CC but there is a fee.

The fee is under 2%, so technically with a good rewards card you could make a slight profit on the transaction. Or use it to meet minimum spend for a signup bonus.

[Fomerly known as something]

Coworker just replied to a district wide email with the sentiment “I have no more fucks to give”

https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0

[jinga nation]

Coworker just replied to a district wide email with the sentiment “I have no more fucks to give”

https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0

thank you for the link.
i like "Well, This is Shit" a wee bit more - so apt with my current long-term contract customer.
and then he sings this:
https://youtu.be/ROAWKuXCTK8

[Fomerly known as something]

Coworker just replied to a district wide email with the sentiment “I have no more fucks to give”

https://youtu.be/Vqbk9cDX0l0

thank you for the link.
i like "Well, This is Shit" a wee bit more - so apt with my current long-term contract customer.
and then he sings this:
https://youtu.be/ROAWKuXCTK8

And actually even more accurate with our current work issue.

[Siebrie]

My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).

[Sibley]

My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).

That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.

[dandarc]

My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).

That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.

Or he really likes cooking?

[charis]

My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).

That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.

I don't know.  I think this sounds like it could be a really cool adventure in a foreign country for someone who would enjoy the work involved, plus a good way to meet people.  Not everyone wants a vacation in the traditional sense and being behind the scenes offers a unique perspective.

[Fomerly known as something]

We have new people in the office today.  So made sure to mention, if you aren’t maxing out TSP, with raises, work on getting there.  New woman.  I’m maxing it out, it hurts, but it’s going to work out.

[Siebrie]

My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).

That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.

I don't know.  I think this sounds like it could be a really cool adventure in a foreign country for someone who would enjoy the work involved, plus a good way to meet people.  Not everyone wants a vacation in the traditional sense and being behind the scenes offers a unique perspective.

This year (2022) he and his wife been hiking in the Spanish Pyrenees for 2 weeks, touring Finland for 2 weeks, had several weekends away with friends or family, have been hiking in Germany's Black Forest for a week. They just want to give others the opportunity to enjoy a vacation abroad. Nothing sad about it.

[Imma]

My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).

That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.

I understood this as being some sort of volunteering holiday? In that case I really appreciate it that a priviliged person is willing to donate their time, not just a bit of money.

[Siebrie]

Correct, Imma!

[Sugaree]

My colleague (Technical Director, roughly €8,000/month) has announced that he will take a weeklong break the first week of January. He and his wife want to go to Switzerland on vacation, and they have decided that they will volunteer in a hotel for Belgian families-on-a-budget. They will have every afternoon off between 1 and 4, and 1 whole day. He will work in the kitchen, and his wife hopes to work as a nurse (meaning she has to be available 'just in case', but can pretty much do what she wants).

That's sad. Either they are so wasteful with their money they can't afford a vacation, or they're so stingy with their money that they can't let themselves relax and just enjoy themselves.

I understood this as being some sort of volunteering holiday? In that case I really appreciate it that a priviliged person is willing to donate their time, not just a bit of money.

I think if it's done right then it's a great thing.  Unfortunately, my views of this kind of thing are tainted by my Southern Baptist upbringing.  These kinds of things were mostly framed as "mission trips" and were often more like poverty tourism than actual help. 

[LennStar]

That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.

A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).

[Siebrie]

For our non-Belgian viewers: Belgium has a long history of health insurance, youth movements, and something called 'Family Union' (which started out as 'Union of Families with Many Members' to help families where the father (and sons) had died during WW1). All these organisations offer subsidised vacations in nice locations. Often, they have their own holiday building at the seaside, in the woods, or they rent a whole hotel for a month for their members. They keep their costs low by working with volunteers. Belgium has a minimum of 20 vacation days per year, plus 10 christian and national holidays, which are always given; if they fall in the weekend, you can recuperate them on a later date. Most Belgian families have been on at least one of these vacations, and are happy to volunteer on one if life goes well for them. It's not disaster tourism, it's just 'let's do our bit'.

[charis]

That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.

A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).

This is not what the OP is describing.  For one, the wife is a nurse who is donating her professional skilled time.

[Sugaree]

That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.

A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).

This is not what the OP is describing.  For one, the wife is a nurse who is donating her professional skilled time.

I think he was referring to my post about mission trips being poverty tourism.  There's no reason for a bunch of high school kids to sell shitty wrapping paper to pay for a trip somewhere to "help" build schools or whatever for a couple of days then hit the beach. 

[charis]

That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.

A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).

This is not what the OP is describing.  For one, the wife is a nurse who is donating her professional skilled time.

I think he was referring to my post about mission trips being poverty tourism.  There's no reason for a bunch of high school kids to sell shitty wrapping paper to pay for a trip somewhere to "help" build schools or whatever for a couple of days then hit the beach.

Right, but the OP is obviously not about poverty tourism, so I think these comparisons are taking away from the point of that post being added to the anti-antimustchian thread.

[DadJokes]

That reminds me of something I think in one of the (here) famous books.

A group went to Africa. There the tourists would "help" by painting a classroom. The economist pointed out that it would have been a lot better if the tourists had not spend a day painting a classroom with amateur skills but instead paid a local a day's worth of their income so he can spend a month painting the whole school. (last part is my dramatisation).

This is not what the OP is describing.  For one, the wife is a nurse who is donating her professional skilled time.

I think he was referring to my post about mission trips being poverty tourism.  There's no reason for a bunch of high school kids to sell shitty wrapping paper to pay for a trip somewhere to "help" build schools or whatever for a couple of days then hit the beach.

Sure there is. It exposes those high school kids to less fortunate people.

Nothing puts American entitlement in perspective quite like seeing what actual poverty is. Hopefully, the end result is people who do give more throughout their lives.

[Uturn]

Sure there is. It exposes those high school kids to less fortunate people.

Nothing puts American entitlement in perspective quite like seeing what actual poverty is. Hopefully, the end result is people who do give more throughout their lives.

Back when I was married, my step daughter (15) was going on a cruise with her grandmother.  The daughter was very upset that I would not buy her new cruise clothes.  I tried explaining that she should be grateful just to be able to take a trip like that.  But she just insisted that it was unfair because new clothes are expected for a nice vacation.

I sent her on one of those help the poor mission trips the week before the cruise.  She spent a week in one of the poorest zip codes in TX, followed by a week of luxury.  She came back from those two weeks with a whole new attitude.  Even thanked me for the eye opening experience. 

I don't recall what that mission trip cost me, but it was a bargain for the lesson she learned. 

[charis]

Sugaree's the point is that unskilled mission trips typically don't actually help the folks in need.  Isn't it quite like Americans to think the biggest takeway from a mission/volunteer trip is that it might change the attitude of their spoiled kids.

[Taran Wanderer]

We just live in a rural area, so our kids see the poverty every day. We do caution them about taking too much about how awesome our travels are. Ours kids’ list of top ten vacations is something that most retirees would be happy to have checked off.

[DadJokes]

Sugaree's the point is that unskilled mission trips typically don't actually help the folks in need.  Isn't it quite like Americans to think the biggest takeway from a mission/volunteer trip is that it might change the attitude of their spoiled kids.

You mean to take a long-term view instead of only looking at the immediate impact?

[Sugaree]

Sugaree's the point is that unskilled mission trips typically don't actually help the folks in need.  Isn't it quite like Americans to think the biggest takeway from a mission/volunteer trip is that it might change the attitude of their spoiled kids.

Yeah, but does it actually change the attitude of the spoiled kid?  My experience is that it does not.  They simply suffer through whatever unpleasantness for a few days until the fun part of the trip happens.  Or maybe that is just my parents' church's youth group.  A great example is feeding the homeless on Thanksgiving.  They took an entire busload of kids from Alabama to NYC.  For a week.  There was maybe 2 days of actual work.  But there was plenty of sightseeing and Broadway shows and other touristy crap on the way there (very short tours of Gettysburg, Harper's Ferry, WV, and Washington, DC as I recall).  Nevermind the fact that there are homeless people who would appreciate a Thanksgiving meal here.  Or that the money raised to drive a bus 1000 miles could have fed how many people?  And the kids acted exactly the same the week after Thanksgiving than they did the week before. 

And even if the point of the trip is to teach some spoiled kids gratitude, it seems exploitative of the people who you are "helping."

[PMG]

Exploiting an already vulnerable population so teenagers can learn just doesn’t sit well with me.

[DadJokes]

I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.

For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.

I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.

[Sugaree]

I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.

For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.

I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.

I mean, I have actually been on these trips.  As I said, my view of these kinds of things are tainted by how it was done at my parents' church.  I'm glad your group did better.  But don't assume that all groups are like that. 

[rockstache]

For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.

Yeah, I have feelings about all this that I've never fully reconciled with the views on this forum. I attended a month long mission trip to Africa as a teen. I paid for my trip using some donations  and mostly my own money from my high school job. We worked hard while we were there: building houses for part of the trip and working at a pop up medical facility in a remote location for the remainder. At the end of the month we did have 3 days of fun times. That trip changed my whole life. Despite growing up in poverty myself, I had never been anywhere or done anything like it and it was absolutely a building block to who I am today. I wasn't spoiled and it didn't fix me, and that wasn't why I went. Could other local people have done the work I did? Yup, they could have. Could I have just taken an African vacation instead? Sure. What's the difference then? Only the impact it had on me. If we don't discourage travel here on the forums (and we really don't -we even put it on a pedestal), then why would we discourage travel with the bonus of giving?

I do understand that some evangelical church missions are elitist endeavors for back patting and that's gross and problematic, but I think those cases are becoming fewer than they were years ago when they were trendy. There are always people somewhere taking something good and making it about themselves. Just like the news, those are the things that make headlines. I think the majority of people are just somewhere in the middle trying to do their best and make good choices for themselves and their kids.

[kenner]

I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.

For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.

I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.

Arguing that this is for the community you're visiting still misses the point, though...imagine instead of paying to send all of these unskilled kids (and maybe a couple experts) to travel however many miles to do this work for 'free,' what would have been the impact if that money was used to pay locals to do the work (and if necessary just send those experts)?  Unless the population is physically incapable for some reason, what value do these unskilled kids add? 

I have no idea about domestic trips, but internationally it's pretty well documented that short-term missionaries with no skills bring little to no long term value, and in some cases they actually damage the local economies because what they're doing for 'free' is something a local could be paid to do, and now they're out of work because 'here come the <whoever> to save the day'.  Skilled groups are a different story (ex. MSF/Doctors Without Borders which bring in services that aren't available locally), but before sending a bus of high schoolers anywhere it seems like 'Is this really the best way to help the people we want to serve?' is a pretty basic question to ask.

[DadJokes]

I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.

For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.

I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.

Arguing that this is for the community you're visiting still misses the point, though...imagine instead of paying to send all of these unskilled kids (and maybe a couple experts) to travel however many miles to do this work for 'free,' what would have been the impact if that money was used to pay locals to do the work (and if necessary just send those experts)?  Unless the population is physically incapable for some reason, what value do these unskilled kids add? 

I have no idea about domestic trips, but internationally it's pretty well documented that short-term missionaries with no skills bring little to no long term value, and in some cases they actually damage the local economies because what they're doing for 'free' is something a local could be paid to do, and now they're out of work because 'here come the <whoever> to save the day'.  Skilled groups are a different story (ex. MSF/Doctors Without Borders which bring in services that aren't available locally), but before sending a bus of high schoolers anywhere it seems like 'Is this really the best way to help the people we want to serve?' is a pretty basic question to ask.

"Your way of helping others isn't good enough."

That seems like a condensed version of your argument, which I would say only holds water if 100% of your money beyond what is necessary to meet your basic needs goes to charity. Otherwise, it comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.

[Kris]

I think it’s worth evaluating whether an action is really producing the effects one hopes/assumes it will.

https://www.theperspective.com/debates/living/service-trips-abroad-harmful-helpful/

[kenner]

I can only assume that some form of miscommunication is happening. I'm sure that there is a wide range of what actually takes place on these trips, and maybe what some of y'all or your kids did was just a vacation in which the kids spent a day painting a room. Or maybe they just drove by poor people in a bus and waved on their way to the beach. That wasn't my experience.

For several years after hurricane Katrina, the church I attend sent the youth group to the New Orleans area for 1-2 weeks every summer to build houses. Professionals did the framing and electrical, but the kids did about everything else, under the supervision of experts who went with the kids. It wasn't 1-2 days of work and vacation for the rest of the trip. It was work every day until the last day of the trip. The kids got one day off from work on the trip.

I assume you wouldn't consider the process of building houses for hurricane victims as exploiting a vulnerable population, but I'm sure that there are groups that treat these trips more like a vacation than an effort to give their time. But I hope y'all aren't just making assumptions about what happens on these trips without any experience or evidence.

Arguing that this is for the community you're visiting still misses the point, though...imagine instead of paying to send all of these unskilled kids (and maybe a couple experts) to travel however many miles to do this work for 'free,' what would have been the impact if that money was used to pay locals to do the work (and if necessary just send those experts)?  Unless the population is physically incapable for some reason, what value do these unskilled kids add? 

I have no idea about domestic trips, but internationally it's pretty well documented that short-term missionaries with no skills bring little to no long term value, and in some cases they actually damage the local economies because what they're doing for 'free' is something a local could be paid to do, and now they're out of work because 'here come the <whoever> to save the day'.  Skilled groups are a different story (ex. MSF/Doctors Without Borders which bring in services that aren't available locally), but before sending a bus of high schoolers anywhere it seems like 'Is this really the best way to help the people we want to serve?' is a pretty basic question to ask.

"Your way of helping others isn't good enough."

That seems like a condensed version of your argument, which I would say only holds water if 100% of your money beyond what is necessary to meet your basic needs goes to charity. Otherwise, it comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.

The point of a church mission is service to others, correct?  If I'm mistaken and it's for the good of the church's own congregation that's a different calculation, obviously, but while personally I'm not a church, if the volunteer work I do was shown to be actively hurtful rather than helpful (which is true of international short-term missions, again, haven't seen any information on domestic) I'm not sure how it wouldn't be my responsibility to stop and think if this is something I should really be doing.  It's not a question of 'your way of helping others isn't good enough' it's a very basic 'is my way of helping others actually helping?'  If even asking for that evaluation makes someone defensive...maybe that's also something to think about.

[zolotiyeruki]

Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.

[Imma]

Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.

There's especially a lot of hate for religion-based charity missions here, but honestly doesn't a lot of charity work and volunteering dit the "helpful but inefficient"  label? Should that be a reason not to do it? Personally I don't necessarily think so.

[zolotiyeruki]

Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.

There's especially a lot of hate for religion-based charity missions here, but honestly doesn't a lot of charity work and volunteering dit the "helpful but inefficient"  label? Should that be a reason not to do it? Personally I don't necessarily think so.

Feed My Starving Children falls into this category as well, IMO. It'd be far more efficient to have machines pack the meals. That said, getting people to donate money would be a lot harder without the engagement provided by actually packing those meals.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.

There is such a thing as "actually harmful" in the world of charitable tourism. When untrained people are sent into disaster areas where they don't have any useful skills (equipment operator, nurse, engineer, search and rescue, etc.), and they don't even speak the local language well enough to tell when someone is asking for a drink of water, they are worse than useless. The only things they can do are the things that any unskilled local person could do. Meanwhile, they consume food, water, and accommodations that could be given to some local person who has just lost his or her home. Without the ability to understand the local language, they also consume the attention of a minder or babysitter of some kind, lest they endanger themselves and everyone else around them.

[mm1970]

"Your way of helping others isn't good enough."

That seems like a condensed version of your argument, which I would say only holds water if 100% of your money beyond what is necessary to meet your basic needs goes to charity. Otherwise, it comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.

I definitely get your point, and it was my first thought too.  HOWEVER, I also try really really hard to learn things that I don't know.

We've never done any kind of foreign volunteer work, and I only know 1 or 2 unskilled people who have done this.  (But many skilled people like nurses.) So, I don't have a dog in this race.

It never would have occurred to me that these could be actually harmful, until I read the link posted here and did some more reading.

Just like, a lot of people fly for vacations all the time and never consider the climate implications - (I mean, some do, and they do other things to offset their climate effects, cut back on travel, etc. etc. - it's a spectrum), and some people don't think about the effects of sending money/ aid to Africa, etc.  (Because, well, you don't know what you don't know...there are lots of things that I don't know, and unless I read books and stuff about it...I never will.)

[Imma]

Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.

There's especially a lot of hate for religion-based charity missions here, but honestly doesn't a lot of charity work and volunteering dit the "helpful but inefficient"  label? Should that be a reason not to do it? Personally I don't necessarily think so.

Feed My Starving Children falls into this category as well, IMO. It'd be far more efficient to have machines pack the meals. That said, getting people to donate money would be a lot harder without the engagement provided by actually packing those meals.

I'd never heard of that particular charity, but yes, I think it would be difficult to get any donations at all without those events. The same goes for local foodbanks and church soup kitchens. When people volunteer with a soup kitchen or a foodbank, for many people that's the first time they're confronted with food insecure people in their own community, other than the local homeless population. It would be way more efficient if all people donated money and the foodbank would buy supplies in bulk (which of course they also d) but I think they would get far less monetary donations without their food drives in grocery stores and churches. When we see foodbank volunteers in the grocery store, who tell the story of our local foodbank, what the average person using the foodbank has to spend, what kind of food they might get, what kind of circumstances go people in the position of having to rely on the food bank, and then the actual act of purchasing some canned food especially for those people,  that kind of engagement often leads to more involvement (and maybe cash donations) in the future.

Of course this doesn't apply to actually harmful stuff like unskilled people going into a disaster area. That's obviously an extremely stupid idea.

[charis]

Certainly it's not a black-and-white, is-or-isn't helpful question. It's a spectrum, with "actually harmful" on one extreme, "truly beneficial" on the other, and "helpful, but really inefficient" in the middle.

There's especially a lot of hate for religion-based charity missions here, but honestly doesn't a lot of charity work and volunteering dit the "helpful but inefficient"  label? Should that be a reason not to do it? Personally I don't necessarily think so.

Feed My Starving Children falls into this category as well, IMO. It'd be far more efficient to have machines pack the meals. That said, getting people to donate money would be a lot harder without the engagement provided by actually packing those meals.

I'd never heard of that particular charity, but yes, I think it would be difficult to get any donations at all without those events. The same goes for local foodbanks and church soup kitchens. When people volunteer with a soup kitchen or a foodbank, for many people that's the first time they're confronted with food insecure people in their own community, other than the local homeless population. It would be way more efficient if all people donated money and the foodbank would buy supplies in bulk (which of course they also d) but I think they would get far less monetary donations without their food drives in grocery stores and churches. When we see foodbank volunteers in the grocery store, who tell the story of our local foodbank, what the average person using the foodbank has to spend, what kind of food they might get, what kind of circumstances go people in the position of having to rely on the food bank, and then the actual act of purchasing some canned food especially for those people,  that kind of engagement often leads to more involvement (and maybe cash donations) in the future.

Of course this doesn't apply to actually harmful stuff like unskilled people going into a disaster area. That's obviously an extremely stupid idea.

But it's not just a "disaster zone."  Sending teenagers who can't speak the language and will be disrupting the local economy in a high poverty area is also kind of a stupid idea.

[Taran Wanderer]

And… back to anti-antimustachian work stories. Anyone? Anyone?

[zolotiyeruki]

And… back to anti-antimustachian work stories. Anyone? Anyone?

Here's a short one:  my company's CEO's wife shops for clothes at Salvation Army and Goodwill most of the time.  CEO has a seven-figure income.

[Taran Wanderer]

My cousin’s ex-husband was head of a bank in the Bay Area in the 1980’s. He bought all his suits at Goodwill. I always admire that.

[ChpBstrd]

My cousin’s ex-husband was head of a bank in the Bay Area in the 1980’s. He bought all his suits at Goodwill. I always admire that.

I bought a matching jacket and pants for $13 at GW as part of my Halloween costume, and it dawned on me that a single t-shirt now costs more than a suit. I could wear suits every day for less than the cost of keeping a fleet of unstained t-shirts.

[Dicey]

My cousin’s ex-husband was head of a bank in the Bay Area in the 1980’s. He bought all his suits at Goodwill. I always admire that.

I bought a matching jacket and pants for $13 at GW as part of my Halloween costume, and it dawned on me that a single t-shirt now costs more than a suit. I could wear suits every day for less than the cost of keeping a fleet of unstained t-shirts.

Sort of. A suit requires a few more accessories and isn't machine washable, but I like the way you're thinking.

[ixtap]

My cousin’s ex-husband was head of a bank in the Bay Area in the 1980’s. He bought all his suits at Goodwill. I always admire that.

I bought a matching jacket and pants for $13 at GW as part of my Halloween costume, and it dawned on me that a single t-shirt now costs more than a suit. I could wear suits every day for less than the cost of keeping a fleet of unstained t-shirts.

How much are Tshirts at Goodwill?

[Siebrie]

My husband is African, and we always collect items to send to his (really poor) relatives. We send a sea container full of stuff about every other year, and every time someone we know sends a car or truck to his mother country, we fill it up. Debate about whether this is helping or hurting aside, we receive quite a lot of clothes from friends for further distribution. I always pick through the bags to check for quality of the items, and regularly find something that fits me, but is in a completely different style to what I usually wear. I will wear it a few times, even to work, then (usually) put it back in the donation bag (clean :D). It's a fun and free way to try out different styles and fabrics.

[SwordGuy]

My husband is African, and we always collect items to send to his (really poor) relatives. We send a sea container full of stuff about every other year, and every time someone we know sends a car or truck to his mother country, we fill it up. Debate about whether this is helping or hurting aside, we receive quite a lot of clothes from friends for further distribution. I always pick through the bags to check for quality of the items, and regularly find something that fits me, but is in a completely different style to what I usually wear. I will wear it a few times, even to work, then (usually) put it back in the donation bag (clean :D). It's a fun and free way to try out different styles and fabrics.

There are a lot of businesses in Africa who sell these clothes.  It helps many people.   Not local weavers, etc., but then again, factory produced consumer goods are rarely good for any artisans.

[AMandM]

Here's a short one:  my company's CEO's wife shops for clothes at Salvation Army and Goodwill most of the time.  CEO has a seven-figure income.

I had a friend whose husband was a Navy officer. Over the years he got promoted, until the day she told me she was pretty sure she was the only admiral's wife who shopped at Goodwill.
Although who knows....

In November, a couple of years ago, I ran into the wife of the university president at the local thrift store. She a has a bunch of grandchildren and she had a cart full of velvet dresses and Christmas pajamas.

[snic]

Here's a short one:  my company's CEO's wife shops for clothes at Salvation Army and Goodwill most of the time.  CEO has a seven-figure income.

I had a friend whose husband was a Navy officer. Over the years he got promoted, until the day she told me she was pretty sure she was the only admiral's wife who shopped at Goodwill.
Although who knows....

In November, a couple of years ago, I ran into the wife of the university president at the local thrift store. She a has a bunch of grandchildren and she had a cart full of velvet dresses and Christmas pajamas.

A professor I know does the same. She is "only" an assistant prof, and profs aren't exactly known for being smartly dressed, but she outdresses everyone else and it's entirely second-hand. She is constantly selling the clothes back to the second-hand stores after she wears them a few times, and replacing them, so she always has something new.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Here's a short one:  my company's CEO's wife shops for clothes at Salvation Army and Goodwill most of the time.  CEO has a seven-figure income.

I had a friend whose husband was a Navy officer. Over the years he got promoted, until the day she told me she was pretty sure she was the only admiral's wife who shopped at Goodwill.
Although who knows....

In November, a couple of years ago, I ran into the wife of the university president at the local thrift store. She a has a bunch of grandchildren and she had a cart full of velvet dresses and Christmas pajamas.

A professor I know does the same. She is "only" an assistant prof, and profs aren't exactly known for being smartly dressed, but she outdresses everyone else and it's entirely second-hand. She is constantly selling the clothes back to the second-hand stores after she wears them a few times, and replacing them, so she always has something new.

I have a friend who is a law professor and earned himself the nickname "Professor McSweatervest" (a play on his name that also appeared in campus version of Cards Against Humanity that someone made).