Author Topic: Overheard at Work 2  (Read 522637 times)

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2000 on: December 15, 2019, 06:11:55 AM »
That's what's a little surprising to me about this. In many places in the US, the municipalities specifically try to restrict short-term vacation rentals, which otherwise tend to take over and replace the affordable long-term rentals. So this Netherlands regulation seems exactly backwards from my perspective.

Here too. Many tourist-y cities have restrictions. Like Berlin, which also has quite strict rent constrol laws.

It is no surprise landlords prefer a vacation home that they can rent for 1000Ä three weeks a month to a normal renter who pays just one time 1000Ä for the whole month. Especially if you are obstructed to increase normal rents.

They may have an eye opening moment when their cleaning lady quits because she cannot live inside 20km anymore, but by then it is too late.

Cadman

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2001 on: December 15, 2019, 10:00:25 AM »
The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.

I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?

OtherJen

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2002 on: December 15, 2019, 10:25:12 AM »
The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.

I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?

Maybe it's more of a "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" sort of policy. Like, if you have a remote cabin in unincorporated territory in the northern US, you can't reasonably expect timely emergency services during winter.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2003 on: December 15, 2019, 11:24:25 AM »
The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.

I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?

Maybe it's more of a "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" sort of policy. Like, if you have a remote cabin in unincorporated territory in the northern US, you can't reasonably expect timely emergency services during winter.

The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

If a property doesn't have planning permission for permanent residency then you can't register yourself on that address. If you are not registered, the government doesn't consider you a resident of the country, so you cannot access any government service (no benefits, no social security, no renewing a drivers license or ID etc). The other option is to register at an address you don't actually live at. But that means you're formally a member of that household. Which means they pay local taxes (based on household size) for you and it also may mean your income is considered part of their household income which is important for income based government benefits. Which is everything from health care subsidies to income-based daycare prices to rent subsidies to social security.

I'm in the rare position that it wouldn't matter to us if someone moved in, except for local taxes. We don't have kids, don't receive subsidies or benefits or social security or pension.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2004 on: December 15, 2019, 11:37:12 AM »
The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

Cassie

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2005 on: December 15, 2019, 11:45:01 AM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Hula Hoop

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2006 on: December 15, 2019, 11:56:11 AM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

I have absolutely no idea!

gaja

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2007 on: December 15, 2019, 12:01:30 PM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2008 on: December 15, 2019, 01:23:08 PM »
The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

Cadman

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2009 on: December 15, 2019, 01:45:56 PM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Or a full-time RV'er? I guess perhaps that's not too common in Europe, or they register with a family member's address? Here in the states there's a movement of selling one's home and traveling the US full-time. There are even mail-forwarding services catering specifically to this crowd because they have no permanent address.

gaja

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2010 on: December 15, 2019, 02:11:20 PM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Or a full-time RV'er? I guess perhaps that's not too common in Europe, or they register with a family member's address? Here in the states there's a movement of selling one's home and traveling the US full-time. There are even mail-forwarding services catering specifically to this crowd because they have no permanent address.

In Norway: You get registered as UFB ("no permanent adress"), either in the municipality where you are living, or just generally. That makes everything difficult; from getting help from the welfare state, to getting a phone subscription. And if you keep that status for too long, the system might have a hickup and declare you dead.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2011 on: December 15, 2019, 03:08:28 PM »
These days you can just notify your local government online in NL, checks are rare and only happen in case of suspected fraud - and even then it's a civil servant not a cop who comes to visit. We barely have the police capacity to even keep up with organized crime.

If you're homeless, that's a really tough situation. If you're lucky you can register with someone else but many people who are homeless only know other people who are poor/struggling and likely on income support so they can't register there. Shelters sometimes allow you to register there. In my country there's a separate register for homeless people and those people do get checks - they have to report where they are sleeping and civil servants visit them there. They can get some cash to buy food or pay for a place in the shelter (usually around Ä5/night) with that money.

If you are a fulltime traveller it's really difficult. I don't know the details as it isn't super common to actually live in a vehicle here, but there are books and websites about how to make that happen, so there are some ways around it. I know more than a few retirees who spend winters in warmer climates, but they generally keep their homes in NL so they are registed there. One of my neighbours is away all winter in their RV.

Siebrie

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2012 on: December 16, 2019, 05:50:35 AM »
In Belgium the police come and check. They came very early in the morning, as I was breastfeeding my dd in bed, and dh was hoovering our studio in his bathrobe :) This somehow also convinced the officer that we were in a proper relationship, which was the second reason she came to check on us:)
There is a lot of fraud, especially in Brussels, with people claiming being properly married for residence and work permit reasons.

In The Netherlands the police won't come, but the Social Benefits people may come round to count toothbrushes and underwear to see if everyone claiming to (not) live in a house is actually (not) living there. Benefits for two single people not living together are higher than that of two people living together (based on the idea that some costs like rent and heating only need to be paid once), so they might come and check if the single person is really living alone.

SheWhoWalksAtLunch

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2013 on: December 16, 2019, 08:56:44 AM »
The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.

I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?

Maybe it's more of a "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" sort of policy. Like, if you have a remote cabin in unincorporated territory in the northern US, you can't reasonably expect timely emergency services during winter.

Former Northern US resident with emergency services experience.  Seasonal housing in our area received NO emergency services AT ALL during the winters.  The roads in weren't plowed.  I watched more than one building burn from a distance because we couldn't get the trucks to the scene.  Even when the resident plowed their road themselves or the snow had melted, we couldn't always access the properties because the roads couldn't handle the weight of the vehicles. 

Some of the more remote properties were "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" during the summers as well, but others, in more populated areas where residents might be tempted to stay out of season had road access blocked by the town (cement barriers) installed each fall to restrict off season access.  Important lesson when it comes to purchasing property in the North East US.  Before you commit, visit your local Fire Department/Ambulance/Town Clerk and ask about off season access.  Just because a building is insulated and has a heat source doesn't guarantee you can live in some places year round.

And yes, I made more than one medical call on a snowmobile, but that's not a ride out you want to make as a patient.


Hula Hoop

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2014 on: December 16, 2019, 01:42:55 PM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.

This may apply to countries like Norway, but not much welfare help here in Italy and there are tons of homeless people.  When I come home late at night from a social event the piazza near my house is a virtual dormitory.  The welfare state (apart from medical care) is more extensive in my home state in the US than in Italy IMO.  There is very little public housing here and unemployment benefits are extremely skimpy.  There are also no food stamps.  Basically, your family is meant to look after you if you can't work for whatever reason.  If you don't have a family then you're (more or less) on your own.

gaja

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2015 on: December 16, 2019, 02:04:05 PM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.

This may apply to countries like Norway, but not much welfare help here in Italy and there are tons of homeless people.  When I come home late at night from a social event the piazza near my house is a virtual dormitory.  The welfare state (apart from medical care) is more extensive in my home state in the US than in Italy IMO.  There is very little public housing here and unemployment benefits are extremely skimpy.  There are also no food stamps.  Basically, your family is meant to look after you if you can't work for whatever reason.  If you don't have a family then you're (more or less) on your own.

The boat refugees also have had a much larger impact on Italy than on Norway. I'm sorry we haven't stepped up more.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2016 on: December 16, 2019, 04:32:47 PM »
In my country the welfare state is much more generous than in Italy but the housing shortage is so extreme that no one can find you a place to live if you don't have ÄÄÄ. I am actually surprised we don't have way more homeless people on the streets. I think one reason for that is that our country is so small and culturally people are less likely to move away from their hometown, so many people who end up without a permanent place to live can rely on their social network for a roof over their head and there's a relatively big chance that location is within commuting distance from work. I'm a mustachian with savings, a degree and an income and if my partner and I would split up, I wouldn't be able to afford to rent a one bedroom apartment on my own. The housing shortage I think is one of the main reasons for hostility towards refugees.

We have something similar to welfare in the US sense which pays 100% of minimum wage for a family, 70% to a single parent and 50% to a single person. The rules are extremely strict and don't dare to step out of the tight little box we've defined for you or you face steep penalties and fines.

Social insurances (unemployment, disability) come with less strict rules and income based payments but you don't get paid out unless you've paid in and with the gig economy less people qualify to pay in.

Hirondelle

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2017 on: December 24, 2019, 07:39:40 AM »
If you are a fulltime traveller it's really difficult. I don't know the details as it isn't super common to actually live in a vehicle here, but there are books and websites about how to make that happen, so there are some ways around it. I know more than a few retirees who spend winters in warmer climates, but they generally keep their homes in NL so they are registed there. One of my neighbours is away all winter in their RV.

To add to the 'this is how it works in Europe!'-page of this thread; I know a little about this.

Full time RV'ing is rare/non-existent in my country, but full time travel is not. If you plan to stay out of the country for over 8 months consecutively (some sources even say it's per calendar year, so if you do the last 7 months of 2019, then the first 7 of 2020 you should still be good but don't pin me down on this) you need to de-register yourself as a resident. This means you do not need to pay for national health insurance, do not pay any taxes (unless you have local income) but also do not build up any Social Security (which in contrast to the US is based on numbers of years you've lived here instead of how much you worked).

Most full time travelers I know just register somewhere else. If you have parents or grandparents that have no social benefits it's easy to register at their place and just compensate them for the extra taxes. I've done this twice when living abroad >8 months. As most full time travelers don't have any (registered) income it doesn't come with too many tax/benefits implications for the people already living there.

Another way to pull it off if you're a home-owner is to rent out your house while staying registered yourself (so pretending you're just renting out a room)

Usually the government doesn't check much, unless they get suspicious (e.g. living with your parents at age 40, no income or significant assets, yet no government benefits)

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2018 on: December 24, 2019, 12:48:56 PM »
To be fair, if you are a time traveler you probably donít worry too much about government regulations.  Apprentice time travelers might, but not full time travelers.

IsThisAGoodUsername

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2019 on: December 24, 2019, 03:45:25 PM »
To be fair, if you are a time traveler you probably donít worry too much about government regulations.  Apprentice time travelers might, but not full time travelers.

Just remember to come back before you leave!

PDXTabs

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2020 on: December 24, 2019, 04:36:40 PM »
In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

Strictly speaking this is also true in every US state that I am aware of if you have a state drivers license or ID card (which is almost everyone). This comes in handy when the police need to find someone (like if your parent dies). However, in the real world in the states these laws are rarely enforced unless you are dodging taxes. If you are dodging taxes there are people on staff to find you.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 04:39:20 PM by PDXTabs »

Panly

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2021 on: December 24, 2019, 11:29:51 PM »
The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

But nowadays in order to be able to register,
you need to bring a form signed by the landlord who confirms that you live in his rental.

scottish

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2022 on: December 29, 2019, 07:38:48 AM »
The US has plenty of places that are prohibited from full time occupation, as well. This is especially true in rural vacation areas (my family has such a cabin), but another common prohibition is living on your boat in protected waters.

I have never heard of such a thing in the US. The rural cabins I'm familiar with would be inhospitable during the winter, but I'm not sure who would prevent you from staying on your own property? How is such a thing enforced?

Maybe it's more of a "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" sort of policy. Like, if you have a remote cabin in unincorporated territory in the northern US, you can't reasonably expect timely emergency services during winter.

Former Northern US resident with emergency services experience.  Seasonal housing in our area received NO emergency services AT ALL during the winters.  The roads in weren't plowed.  I watched more than one building burn from a distance because we couldn't get the trucks to the scene.  Even when the resident plowed their road themselves or the snow had melted, we couldn't always access the properties because the roads couldn't handle the weight of the vehicles. 

Some of the more remote properties were "you're on your own, stay at your own risk" during the summers as well, but others, in more populated areas where residents might be tempted to stay out of season had road access blocked by the town (cement barriers) installed each fall to restrict off season access.  Important lesson when it comes to purchasing property in the North East US.  Before you commit, visit your local Fire Department/Ambulance/Town Clerk and ask about off season access.  Just because a building is insulated and has a heat source doesn't guarantee you can live in some places year round.

And yes, I made more than one medical call on a snowmobile, but that's not a ride out you want to make as a patient.

That doesn't sound like the land of the free.    The municipality will actively try to prevent you from accessing your own property?

Polaria

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2023 on: December 29, 2019, 09:49:16 AM »
In Belgium the police come and check. They came very early in the morning, as I was breastfeeding my dd in bed, and dh was hoovering our studio in his bathrobe :) This somehow also convinced the officer that we were in a proper relationship, which was the second reason she came to check on us:)
There is a lot of fraud, especially in Brussels, with people claiming being properly married for residence and work permit reasons.

Yup, still waiting for the local policy officer to show up, two months after I moved. Guess Iíll give them a call in a good week after end of year madness.

The fraud is not only for residence and work permit reasons, but also because your social benefits such as unemployment depend on your familial situation (single, in couple, primary earner or not, with or without children etc).

joleran

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2024 on: December 30, 2019, 09:23:39 AM »
That doesn't sound like the land of the free.    The municipality will actively try to prevent you from accessing your own property?

Technically, they are preventing you from accessing public roads that are in a "not supported" status, which is well within their rights.  If you can get there without the roads they're not going to hunt you down.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2025 on: December 30, 2019, 09:55:42 PM »
That doesn't sound like the land of the free.    The municipality will actively try to prevent you from accessing your own property?

Technically, they are preventing you from accessing public roads that are in a "not supported" status, which is well within their rights.  If you can get there without the roads they're not going to hunt you down.

Whether or not itís in their rights, I agree it doesnít sound like the land of the free.  In the past, you were free to do all kinds of stupid stuff that would get you killed.  You still are in many ways, but less so

Missy B

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2026 on: December 31, 2019, 10:14:44 PM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.
Amazed to read that access to welfare and medical can expire, esp in a socialist country. In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head. Of course we suck badly at creating housing for anyone other than money-laundering foreign nationals, and I assume that Norway's rules are also a product of an extremely rigorous re-housing policy.

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2027 on: January 01, 2020, 04:51:30 AM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.
Amazed to read that access to welfare and medical can expire, esp in a socialist country. In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head. Of course we suck badly at creating housing for anyone other than money-laundering foreign nationals, and I assume that Norway's rules are also a product of an extremely rigorous re-housing policy.

In Canada, itís the same. If youíve emigrated, are declared dead, or are declared non-resident, the government wonít pay for your healthcare (after a year as an expat, I no longer had OHIP), I canít contribute to an RRSP or TFSA, and I donít  qualify for CPP even though I am a Canadian citizen. Since I didnít contribute to the system, I donít get to reap the benefits. I think thatís fair that access to medical access and social security plans have been cut off to me, at least until I move back and reestablish residency.

Now, I do pay property taxes since we own a home in Toronto, so that gives me access to neighborhood services like the local library.

gaja

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2028 on: January 01, 2020, 10:23:21 AM »
Hula, I find that bizarre. What happens if you are homeless?

Norway here, but kind of the same system as the Netherlands and Italy (no police visit, though). The upside of the welfare system is that it takes a lot for people to be homeless. The municipality you are registered with are responsible for finding you housing and other types of help. The downside is that there are cracks to fall through, and when that happens we all get very confused. There have been a few cases in the media lately about people who have tried to survive outside the system, and have been registered as "emigrated or dead". After three years of no address, your rights to welfare help and medical assistance (outside emergency care) expire.
Amazed to read that access to welfare and medical can expire, esp in a socialist country. In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head. Of course we suck badly at creating housing for anyone other than money-laundering foreign nationals, and I assume that Norway's rules are also a product of an extremely rigorous re-housing policy.

It is a glitch, since the system can't comprehend homeless citizens. So the few cases have created some wrath. I think it is quite fair that people who willingly emigrate should lose access to the system after a while, but we have to find an option for those who don't fit into the forms. And we have to improve the situation for those 3909 who are homeless.

Gerard

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2029 on: January 02, 2020, 06:42:50 AM »
In Canada any suggestion that the state cut off welfare or medical access to citizens for any reason, but especially homelessness, would bring the wrath of Mordor down on the suggestor's head.

I'm ready to be corrected by people with recent knowledge of the process, but I believe it's hard to get welfare in Canada if you're truly homeless because you need a bank account and to get a bank account you need an address. I think some service agencies let people use their address, but that sets off other flags in the system (too many applicants from a single address are assumed to include fraudulent claims).

I suspect in all these places it's the same underlying problem -- the political harm from "giving away taxpayer money" is so big that we end up with systems that filter out some people who really need help.

LetItGrow

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2030 on: January 02, 2020, 04:26:58 PM »
The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2031 on: January 02, 2020, 07:48:20 PM »
The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.

Everyone talks about how China limits an individualís freedom/privacy, etc., but it sounds like itís worse in Italy  (a free European country) than in China. We have to register (online), but no one comes to check.

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2032 on: January 03, 2020, 05:36:17 AM »
The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.

Everyone talks about how China limits an individualís freedom/privacy, etc., but it sounds like itís worse in Italy  (a free European country) than in China. We have to register (online), but no one comes to check.
In some parts of China you have to register, but it's superfluous, since they have every single step you do outside the house or on your computer recorded anyway and you have to show your ID daily to police.
Don't want to be an Uighur, right?

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2033 on: January 06, 2020, 07:39:08 AM »
Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were  interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.

mtn

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2034 on: January 06, 2020, 07:56:03 AM »
Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were  interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.

I don't think this is necessarily anti-mustachian. I manage my accounts to a pretty strict budget, there is rarely a lot of play room in my checking account. With my automatic withdrawals (student loans and mortgage) I would be pretty upset if work fucked up my paydate. It could easily cause an overdraft, literally through no fault of my own. I expect my employer to pay me on time, and that is about the most reasonable expectation there is - especially in today's world where it is all done by direct deposit.

OtherJen

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2035 on: January 06, 2020, 08:01:42 AM »
Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were  interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.

I don't think this is necessarily anti-mustachian. I manage my accounts to a pretty strict budget, there is rarely a lot of play room in my checking account. With my automatic withdrawals (student loans and mortgage) I would be pretty upset if work fucked up my paydate. It could easily cause an overdraft, literally through no fault of my own. I expect my employer to pay me on time, and that is about the most reasonable expectation there is - especially in today's world where it is all done by direct deposit.

Seconded.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2036 on: January 06, 2020, 12:54:35 PM »
Back to work after a 2 week break over the holidays. Paydate was Friday. And something went wrong. They fixed it, and people got paid Saturday/Monday depending on their banks. Seems that my immediate coworkers in general were ok, but the comments on the intranet announcement were  interesting. It didn't help that corporate communications wasn't exactly on top of it. One person specifically mentioned their diabetes and antidepressant medications.

I don't think this is necessarily anti-mustachian. I manage my accounts to a pretty strict budget, there is rarely a lot of play room in my checking account. With my automatic withdrawals (student loans and mortgage) I would be pretty upset if work fucked up my paydate. It could easily cause an overdraft, literally through no fault of my own. I expect my employer to pay me on time, and that is about the most reasonable expectation there is - especially in today's world where it is all done by direct deposit.

Seconded.

Oh agreed. Anyone could be messed up by a late paydate. But there were plenty of comments about living paycheck to paycheck, etc.

Goldielocks

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2037 on: January 08, 2020, 11:23:04 AM »
The consequences are far more severe. In many countries in Europe, everyone needs to be registered to an address (Napoleon's idea).

OT but I didn't realize that this was a Europe-wide phenomenon or that it was Napoleon's idea.  I just thought it was a weird Italian thing.  Here in Italy, when you move house you have to inform the local government and they send a police officer to literally check that you live where you say you do.  In my case, I found it very invasive as he came by when I was eating breakfast in my pajamas and proceeded to barge in and check my kitchen cupboards and clothes closet.  He also spoke to one of my neighbors to ask if I really lived there.  Do they do this also in the Netherlands? 

It really bothers me having to tell the government my business (ie. where I live) but I guess it makes things more efficient for them if you don't have privacy concerns.

That sounds really strange. Too many police? lol

In Germany you have to register at your address but nobody comes to check.

I assume they let the GEZ crew fill in any potential gaps.

Everyone talks about how China limits an individualís freedom/privacy, etc., but it sounds like itís worse in Italy  (a free European country) than in China. We have to register (online), but no one comes to check.
In some parts of China you have to register, but it's superfluous, since they have every single step you do outside the house or on your computer recorded anyway and you have to show your ID daily to police.
Don't want to be an Uighur, right?
This is why I am unsettled at the idea of China moving to "digital" currency - one more way to track and control.

Trekkiekins

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2038 on: January 09, 2020, 04:31:40 PM »
My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Monerexia

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2039 on: January 09, 2020, 04:59:28 PM »
My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

afuera

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2040 on: January 10, 2020, 07:29:05 AM »
My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

ms

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2041 on: January 10, 2020, 07:47:01 AM »
I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

LennStar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2042 on: January 10, 2020, 09:39:02 AM »
My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.

Like I've said for years, you can't cure stupid, but you sure as hell can profit off it.

My MPP: I am too moral to do that.

RobertFromTX

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2043 on: January 10, 2020, 10:11:47 AM »
My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

I've seen people spend hundreds of dollars at Buc-ee's. You can get a charcoal grill, deer corn, a yeti cooler AND lunch. It's like the euphoria of finding a Buc-ee's causes people to spend extra amounts.

DadJokes

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2044 on: January 10, 2020, 10:15:19 AM »
My coworker with a 401k loan and maxed out credit cards told a group of us at lunch that she spent $50 at a gas station on branded merchandise. Why anyone would want sweatpants with a gas station logo on them is beyond my comprehension.
There is a certain TX gas station with a cult following.  I actually have a branded T-shirt from there (thrifted!) and a coozie.  Its so much more than just a gas station :)

What, are we not allowed to say Buc-ee's out loud?

People really do love that place. I'm from Texas and had never heard of it until a few years ago. We were planning a road trip back to visit family, and one of my wife's coworkers insisted that we go to one. It was quite the experience. However, I'd still rather get some Allsup's fried burritos than anything Buc-ee's had to offer.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2045 on: January 10, 2020, 12:19:01 PM »
I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

honeybbq

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2046 on: January 10, 2020, 12:30:07 PM »


What, are we not allowed to say Buc-ee's out loud?


The place that must-not-be-named.

techwiz

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2047 on: January 10, 2020, 12:39:06 PM »
I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2048 on: January 10, 2020, 12:43:25 PM »
I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?

That car was stolen.

ms

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #2049 on: January 10, 2020, 01:24:21 PM »
I was taking a car to the airport after a meeting and I got to talking with the driver. Turns out he drove a 2002 Buick for 10 years until it was stolen. He had bought it from his aunt for $1000.

Then he goes on to say: "I've been leasing ever since. I like having a new car every couple of years without having to pay for it."

Um

Maybe he expenses the lease so it's doesn't seem like his own money?

That car was stolen.

He lives in the Detroit area so maybe that's why it was stolen?

As for expensing it.. Don't know. Before he got this job driving business customers back in April, he said he was driving for Uber for 3 months. He currently has a Chevy Cruz and he says that every day he would fill $20 worth of gas and then worked Uber 8 to 10 hours, 7 days a week. He said he'd make $150/day but it was not steady and no health benefits. He says that that would allow him to pay rent and his bills but just barely.