Author Topic: Overheard at Work 2  (Read 21992 times)

Dicey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #150 on: January 08, 2019, 10:04:02 AM »
I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #151 on: January 08, 2019, 11:44:21 AM »
Or frequent little habits like beer and smokes. It adds up when a person's budget is tissue paper thin.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 07:26:33 AM by Just Joe »

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #152 on: January 08, 2019, 12:57:30 PM »
My cousin hasn't been to a dentist except to get teeth pulled when in extreme pain in 30 years.  But she always has money for cigarettes.

When I was in San Diego, many coworkers went to Mexico for dental work.  The company I worked for covered it (self-insured), because it was cheaper than US costs.


seanc0x0

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #153 on: January 08, 2019, 01:02:26 PM »
Came back after a break to see my favourite thread had been ended. Hard to believe it's over, but the new one is off to a good start.

Anyway, back on topic. Today I learned my coworker spends almost $1500/mo on her kids activities. 2 kids, both in organized sports. There's practice, league fees, equipment fees, one-on-one coaching, tournaments, travel...   She also gets up at 4am several times a week to take the kids to practice and spends most evenings/weekends at the pool or rink. Makes me glad my kids are into cheap activities like non-competitive community association classes and going to the library!

Tabitha

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #154 on: January 08, 2019, 01:25:04 PM »
We have a generous early retirement program, and a significant number of people who “retire” and return on contract often on reduced hours or project work. One coworker “retired” in the fall, but was at the Xmas party with her team. She’s working a full schedule doing the same work as before. She proud of her frugality because she drives (nurses) a 12 year old Toyota, but the reason that she and her husband can’t make it on the their two professional salaries (she’s pulling 120k and his is at a higher grade) is they’ve been paying tuition for three adult children out of cash flow (no savings)PLUS four mortgages (their own plus three). The reason they still have a mortgage is they pulled out their equity for three down payments.  I hope the third income stream keeps their head above water longer than the next department reorganization which will end her contract.
Are the three other mortgages on rental properties?

Sadly no. They bought a house for each kid. Started with buying for the one who went away to school and has continued for the two who’re attending in this city, to be “fair”.

Rent from fellow student roommates are supposed to be covering mortgage and property taxes.  Houses are jointly owned with the kids and supposed to be fully turned over once each kid graduates.

Mom was agonizing over what to do about the kid who dropped out, but thankfully kid went back the following year with only one year tuition wasted.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #155 on: January 08, 2019, 01:38:13 PM »
We have a generous early retirement program, and a significant number of people who “retire” and return on contract often on reduced hours or project work. One coworker “retired” in the fall, but was at the Xmas party with her team. She’s working a full schedule doing the same work as before. She proud of her frugality because she drives (nurses) a 12 year old Toyota, but the reason that she and her husband can’t make it on the their two professional salaries (she’s pulling 120k and his is at a higher grade) is they’ve been paying tuition for three adult children out of cash flow (no savings)PLUS four mortgages (their own plus three). The reason they still have a mortgage is they pulled out their equity for three down payments.  I hope the third income stream keeps their head above water longer than the next department reorganization which will end her contract.
Are the three other mortgages on rental properties?

Sadly no. They bought a house for each kid. Started with buying for the one who went away to school and has continued for the two who’re attending in this city, to be “fair”.

Rent from fellow student roommates are supposed to be covering mortgage and property taxes.  Houses are jointly owned with the kids and supposed to be fully turned over once each kid graduates.

Mom was agonizing over what to do about the kid who dropped out, but thankfully kid went back the following year with only one year tuition wasted.

I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college.  The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there.  He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan.  Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends.  After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #156 on: January 08, 2019, 03:19:51 PM »
I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.

Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.   

We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities.  Like cheap food and cheap shelter.



Tabitha

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #157 on: January 08, 2019, 03:50:22 PM »

I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college.  The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there.  He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan.  Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends.  After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit.

That investment makes sense and is relatively common around here. I contrast it with CW mortgaging (literally) her retirement.

Rural

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #158 on: January 08, 2019, 05:00:04 PM »
I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.

Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.   

We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities.  Like cheap food and cheap shelter.


+1


When I got to the point I could afford both insurance and food/shelter, I bought health insurance, not dental.

mm1970

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #159 on: January 08, 2019, 05:22:04 PM »

I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college.  The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there.  He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan.  Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends.  After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit.

That investment makes sense and is relatively common around here. I contrast it with CW mortgaging (literally) her retirement.
When we started house hunting, the first place we looked at was a 2BR condo like this.  One of our pick-up volleyball friends was finally finishing his PhD and his parents were selling the 2BR condo.  He didn't even know if the dishwasher worked, because he owned 1 bowl, 1 pot, 1 fork, 1 knife, 1 spoon, 1 plate. 

Dicey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #160 on: January 08, 2019, 06:06:25 PM »
I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.

Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.   

We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities.  Like cheap food and cheap shelter.
Hey @SwordGuy, I thought about that in the shower, too. When I was writing my post I found myself heading down the beer, cannabis and cigarettes path. I decided to just shut up and stop writing. Sorry I didn't get to that thought.

FWIW - I put myself through college by working three jobs, so I really do get it. Fortunately, I was six months into my first career job when I was diagnosed with cancer. I had taken the job after getting an AA at a Junior College. I needed to earn more money to continue my schooling, so I got a "real" job, even though I only planned for it to be temporary. Not only did I have excellent medical coverage, but they paid me longer than they had to and let me keep my company car the whole time I was out. And they held my job for me. Amazing.

Holy shit! It's revelation time almost forty years later. I've always wished I'd somehow figured out a way to stay in school. At times I have really, really regrettted the path I chose, but I did not want to take on student debt. Writing this in response to your comment made me realize if I had done so, I wouldn't have had that insurance coverage and my ass would have been grass. Wow! How have I never put that together before now? Thanks for the nudge, SwordGuy. That was a total paradigm shift. Double Wow! I need to go sit and think about this for a while...

P.S. Sorry for the semi-hijack. I did not see that coming.

SwordGuy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #161 on: January 08, 2019, 06:59:52 PM »
FWIW - I put myself through college by working three jobs, so I really do get it. Fortunately, I was six months into my first career job when I was diagnosed with cancer. I had taken the job after getting an AA at a Junior College. I needed to earn more money to continue my schooling, so I got a "real" job, even though I only planned for it to be temporary. Not only did I have excellent medical coverage, but they paid me longer than they had to and let me keep my company car the whole time I was out. And they held my job for me. Amazing.

Holy shit! It's revelation time almost forty years later. I've always wished I'd somehow figured out a way to stay in school. At times I have really, really regrettted the path I chose, but I did not want to take on student debt. Writing this in response to your comment made me realize if I had done so, I wouldn't have had that insurance coverage and my ass would have been grass. Wow! How have I never put that together before now? Thanks for the nudge, SwordGuy. That was a total paradigm shift. Double Wow! I need to go sit and think about this for a while...

Scary, isn't it?    Either choice would have been "the right thing to do", but one of them could have ended up with you bankrupt or dead.   

It's why I'm for things like affordable health care for everyone.

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #162 on: January 08, 2019, 07:42:33 PM »
Wow, @Dicey. What a story. I’m so glad things worked out for you as they did.

flipboard

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #163 on: January 08, 2019, 10:51:53 PM »
I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college.  The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there.  He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan.  Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends.  After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit.
Similar at my work - but they only bought when their child actually started university. Apparently they'll end up making some profit from it too, but they're doing it mainly because it was the cheapest way to get decent-standard housing.

Meanwhile, I've heard of other people moving _country_ to follow their child to university. Some people don't seem to be able to let go...

RidinTheAsama

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #164 on: January 08, 2019, 11:49:42 PM »
ptf

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #165 on: January 09, 2019, 02:48:30 AM »
I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.

Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.   

We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities.  Like cheap food and cheap shelter.

In Norway dental insurance doesn't exist as far as I know. At least, DH and I don't have it. We go to the dentist once a year for a full check with pictures and cleaning. Costs approx 100$++ per checkup per person. Once I had a root canal treatment with crown and had to pay it myself, about 600$. That was at a cheap, but good dentist. I also had a tooth pulled out. And I had 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed at 140$ a piece. Although those were for a small part (30% or so) covered by a government grant.
If you want to go somewhere cheaper, you can go to the school where they teach dentists to be. And become a practice object for the students with professor supervision. I haven't dared to do that yet.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 02:50:26 AM by Linda_Norway »

Freedomin5

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #166 on: January 09, 2019, 04:59:55 AM »
I knew someone who bought a condo in a college town when the oldest of his three went to college.  The expectation was always that any child who chose to go to that school (and all three did) would live there.  He figured out that the monthly mortgage ended up being a lot cheaper than a smaller dorm room would be and wouldn't require a meal plan.  Plus mom and dad had a place to crash on football weekends.  After the third kid graduated, he sold it for a small profit.
Similar at my work - but they only bought when their child actually started university. Apparently they'll end up making some profit from it too, but they're doing it mainly because it was the cheapest way to get decent-standard housing.

Meanwhile, I've heard of other people moving _country_ to follow their child to university. Some people don't seem to be able to let go...

That’s very normal here in China. At my husband’s international school, several families have bought condos near the school for their Elementary School-Aged child. These condos go for around half a million USD for a three-bedroom unit.

I have also heard of parents who move country to follow their child to college, then buy two condos in the same building because the kid doesn’t want to live with mom.

Dicey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #167 on: January 09, 2019, 07:16:34 AM »
I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.

Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.   

We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities.  Like cheap food and cheap shelter.

In Norway dental insurance doesn't exist as far as I know. At least, DH and I don't have it. We go to the dentist once a year for a full check with pictures and cleaning. Costs approx 100$++ per checkup per person. Once I had a root canal treatment with crown and had to pay it myself, about 600$. That was at a cheap, but good dentist. I also had a tooth pulled out. And I had 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed at 140$ a piece. Although those were for a small part (30% or so) covered by a government grant.
If you want to go somewhere cheaper, you can go to the school where they teach dentists to be. And become a practice object for the students with professor supervision. I haven't dared to do that yet.
Wow, @Linda_Norway , those prices are really low! In the US, just the copays can exceed your entire bill. I'm sure my last crown cost over $1200 and the little sucker chipped within a year. The dentist won't budge on replacement unless I pay for it all over again. She says it's likely to just happen again. She bought this practice when my original dentist retired. Grrr. Time to find a new dentist, but the prices are pretty standard for the Bay Area.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #168 on: January 09, 2019, 12:02:05 PM »
I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.

Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.   

We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities.  Like cheap food and cheap shelter.

In Norway dental insurance doesn't exist as far as I know. At least, DH and I don't have it. We go to the dentist once a year for a full check with pictures and cleaning. Costs approx 100$++ per checkup per person. Once I had a root canal treatment with crown and had to pay it myself, about 600$. That was at a cheap, but good dentist. I also had a tooth pulled out. And I had 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed at 140$ a piece. Although those were for a small part (30% or so) covered by a government grant.
If you want to go somewhere cheaper, you can go to the school where they teach dentists to be. And become a practice object for the students with professor supervision. I haven't dared to do that yet.
Wow, @Linda_Norway , those prices are really low! In the US, just the copays can exceed your entire bill. I'm sure my last crown cost over $1200 and the little sucker chipped within a year. The dentist won't budge on replacement unless I pay for it all over again. She says it's likely to just happen again. She bought this practice when my original dentist retired. Grrr. Time to find a new dentist, but the prices are pretty standard for the Bay Area.

In the Netherlands prices are similar. A check-up + Xray + cleaning is around €80. Just the check-up is about €25 and I usually go for the whole package once every 2 years with cheap checks in between. I don't need to be exposed to X rays all the time.

These are commercial prices and dentists are still rich, but the prices are capped by the government at reasonable levels  At €2000/year our tuition is significantly lower so medical professionals don't have massive student loans to pay off.

Dental insurance does exist in here but it's basically a scam for poor people who can't afford to pay €150 out of pocket for a root canal or €450 for a crown. Self insuring is much cheaper, dental insurance is €15-20/month.

BTDretire

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #169 on: January 09, 2019, 08:58:14 PM »
The Fortran and hoarding references remind me of the Fortran class I took in college in 1996. The professor was a hoarder whose office was filled to the ceiling with stacks of papers and binders. He carved a small path from the door to the desk. Anyone visiting during office hours had to stand next to the seven-foot stacks of papers. By the way, it turns out while I'm really good at following instructions, I'm awful at writing instructions for a computer.

At work, the walls, which have been gray or off-white for a long time, are now being painted random colors. Some are now yellow, some are green, some are various shades of blue and red. One conference room is red and black, and it looks like the Twin Peaks dream sequences. It's as if the bosses looked at a color wheel and said "We'll take one of each."
I learned Fortran, the worst part was making the punchcards!
That was the late 70's. :-)
 No, maybe the worst was watching some one drop a stack of 350 punchcards.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #170 on: January 09, 2019, 11:08:07 PM »
The Fortran and hoarding references remind me of the Fortran class I took in college in 1996. The professor was a hoarder whose office was filled to the ceiling with stacks of papers and binders. He carved a small path from the door to the desk. Anyone visiting during office hours had to stand next to the seven-foot stacks of papers. By the way, it turns out while I'm really good at following instructions, I'm awful at writing instructions for a computer.

At work, the walls, which have been gray or off-white for a long time, are now being painted random colors. Some are now yellow, some are green, some are various shades of blue and red. One conference room is red and black, and it looks like the Twin Peaks dream sequences. It's as if the bosses looked at a color wheel and said "We'll take one of each."
I learned Fortran, the worst part was making the punchcards!
That was the late 70's. :-)
 No, maybe the worst was watching some one drop a stack of 350 punchcards.

I'm so glad punchcards are  before my time.  I know if I was alive then, I would have a bumbersticker reading "punchcard life"

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #171 on: January 10, 2019, 07:34:45 AM »
I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.

Well, when we didn't have dental or health insurance, it was because we were poor.   

We didn't have the insurance because, you know, priorities.  Like cheap food and cheap shelter.

In Norway dental insurance doesn't exist as far as I know. At least, DH and I don't have it. We go to the dentist once a year for a full check with pictures and cleaning. Costs approx 100$++ per checkup per person. Once I had a root canal treatment with crown and had to pay it myself, about 600$. That was at a cheap, but good dentist. I also had a tooth pulled out. And I had 4 wisdom teeth surgically removed at 140$ a piece. Although those were for a small part (30% or so) covered by a government grant.
If you want to go somewhere cheaper, you can go to the school where they teach dentists to be. And become a practice object for the students with professor supervision. I haven't dared to do that yet.

In my city in the USA, the prices you describe for just the annual cleaning are less than the insurance premiums for dental insurance. The price you quoted for a root canal and the wisdom teeth are lower than what I had to pay for my daughter's, and that's even *with* the dental and health insurance.

One of the things that cause costs to be grossly inflated here are all the extra tests and office visits that are forced on you as a condition of getting the treatment you need. Every dental service provider is a specialist, so you can't get a diagnosis AND the root canal AND the crown done at the same place. Every single provider insists on repeating the X-ray and billing you for the X-ray. They are not capable of using an X-ray taken by somebody else just a few days before. They also require three office visits apiece: one to determine whether you need the service they provide (the answer is always yes!), the second to perform the service, and the third to follow up. That's a total of eight separate office visits per dental surgery. They refuse to perform the work unless you do the office visits and the X-rays with them, and you'd better believe that there's a bill attached for every single visit. This is why doctors' and dentists' offices are packed and nobody is accepting new patients: everyone has to dip his or her beak not just once, but several times.

FIRE@50

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #172 on: January 10, 2019, 07:39:59 AM »
I'm surprised that they forced your daughter to get repeated x-rays. Isn't that dangerous?

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #173 on: January 10, 2019, 08:15:35 AM »
I'm surprised that they forced your daughter to get repeated x-rays. Isn't that dangerous?

For the patient, yes. But the patient's well-being is hardly a blip on Big Medical's radar screen. Patients exist for one purpose: to generate cash flow for insurance companies AND medical providers.

When I was desperately searching for a way to address my hearing problems, I ended up paying five separate people, two of whom were ENT doctors, to look into my ears and tell me they couldn't see any problem, and that they'd have to look at the audiogram. I had to have the audiogram test done twice because they're declared artificially invalid after six months (do they expect the hearing problem to IMPROVE?) Then, despite massive evidence that my hearing loss was due to a disease (which is covered by the policy I have and have been paying for these last 20 years), the insurance company turned down the claim for hearing aids in blatant but routine violation of their own policy. Result: more than 18 months of effort, two sets of tests paid for, five hearing professionals paid for including the assistant to the ENT who did nothing but look in my ears, and NOTHING. No hearing aids, just a couple thousand dollars in extra payments to medical professionals and their various test services.

By contrast, I started training the Venomous Spaz Beast as a hearing ear dog, and spent roughly the same amount of time and money, and now I have a fantastic service dog. A Chihuahua with a brain the size of a walnut is outperforming Big Medical.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2019, 09:24:03 AM »
I missed the punchcards era by a year or so at college. Thank goodness.

geekette

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #175 on: January 10, 2019, 10:22:44 AM »
Graduation, early 80's:  punch cards raining down from the top of an 8 story dorm.  Good times.

I've gone to the same dentist for over 20 years and have had 2 crowns.  Same office, no need to go to a specialist, and the initial visit, temp crown, permanent crown, and follow up were all included in the one charge.  They do root canals, too.  Odd how different some areas of the US are.

Cassie

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #176 on: January 10, 2019, 11:35:10 AM »
When we were young many jobs didn’t have dental insurance. Regardless the 5 of us never neglected our teeth. There were times we paid on the bill for months.

Hunny156

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #177 on: January 10, 2019, 02:21:58 PM »
My dentist's office actually has a computer screen in front of the patient, and when they schedule follow up visits, I can clearly see the Outlook calendar, with each patient's name and a DOLLAR amount next to the name.  That's the OOP goal for each sucker.

My parents did not provide me with dental care from 6-16 years of age.  Not b/c of finances, they are immigrants and when the Italian dentist they knew retired, they simply couldn't find another one for a decade.  Luckily, other than a few cavities, my teeth were OK, so I got routine care for a few years, and then didn't make it a priority until my mid 30's.  Again, fairly lucky, some cavities, a small inlay, and pulling my upper molars b/c my impacted wisdom teeth were pushing down and caused a pocket where tooth decay occurred.  From this point forward, I go 2X/year, same office, everything's great.  Until three years ago, when the dentist walks in w/a stern look, and informs me that the gum loss on an upper front tooth is severe and will need a periodontist to review and operate.  I mean, I could see that the gumline was higher, but it's always been that way, and the tooth is SLIGHTLY crooked, but no one said anything for over seven years!  I casually ask if perhaps an implant makes more sense, and I can actually see the dollar signs in the dentist's eyes.  When I learn that it's a several month process, without a noticeable tooth, AND will cost me $5K OOP after insurance, I was like, nope, let's save this tooth instead.  It took them over a year to update my chart to remove the icon for the implant, just b/c I asked a question.

They have a perio on staff, so I make an appointment.  She's all doom and gloom, and informs me that the odds are good that I will need to have 5-8 upper front teeth removed!  By that point, I was done, so I told the office manager I was getting a second opinion.  My insurance covered ONE perio office in the area, who luckily had great reviews.  His office is completely different, and we talk about options, he explains that I will need to do something, but it's not anywhere near as dire as they told me, and it's also not incredibly urgent.  (Open enrollment at work was coming up, so I wanted to wait and see if it would make sense to get better dental coverage prior to the surgery.)

Long story short, he recommends a deep cleaning ($175 OOP), which helps a lot, but we ultimately do the surgery 6 months later ($1,350 OOP), followed by quarterly cleanings ($90 OOP) at his office.  The cleanings cost more there, but they teach me how to properly brush my teeth, show me some tools I didn't know about, and those cleanings were 45 minutes of actual cleaning like I've never had done before - she offers topical numbing each time, and you actually do want that, she goes to town!  My gums are amazing now, the damage has been mitigated with excellent success.  :)

However, I am required to go see my dentist once/year, mostly so he can bill insurance for another round of X-rays.  Then he comes in, pushes down on my teeth like he's trying to break them, shakes his head and tells me how it's a miracle that my teeth and gums are so healthy now, and then tries to suggest that implant or braces for that slightly crooked tooth.  I give him a blank look, then ask "cosmetic?"  He says yes, and I say I'm fine with how my teeth look.  He shakes his head and leaves.  We do this every damn year.  The only reason I don't switch is b/c my insurance pretty much only pays for those chain places, and my experience w/those has been far worse.

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #178 on: January 10, 2019, 02:53:18 PM »
I’m surprised to hear of such bad experiences with dentists. Mine does not push xrays every year and initially monitored what later turned into a need to replace two fillings. I was actually the one sort of pushing to have them done sooner rather than later as I wanted to get everything possible done during the two weeks I had in between jobs.

dragoncar

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #179 on: January 10, 2019, 03:06:00 PM »
I’m surprised to hear of such bad experiences with dentists. Mine does not push xrays every year and initially monitored what later turned into a need to replace two fillings. I was actually the one sort of pushing to have them done sooner rather than later as I wanted to get everything possible done during the two weeks I had in between jobs.

I went to a rock-bottom hmo dentist this year to try it out.  The insurance is better/cheaper For big stuff but you have to use a very small list of participating dentists.  They can not afford nice offices/equipment.

The first time I went they took extensive xrays to the point I started to research how often I can skip xrays.  So I went in the second time ready to fight them on the xrays but they just said “ok”.  I’m very low risk for carries since I’ve never had one and I don’t even brush as often as I should.  It could be genetics, but somehow the rest of my immediate family has multiple fillings.  Somehow I got lucky with genetics or oral flora (inoculated with an extremely beneficial bacteria strain that outcompetes acid pooping bacteria and has no ill effects... is that possible? Cause if it is maybe we can develop a “vaccine”

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #180 on: January 10, 2019, 04:41:05 PM »
I was thinking about starting a new thread to complain about my recent dental experience, but now I can just piggyback on this dental foam.

To start with, my parent is a dental professional, and was always very harsh on my visits in childhood. I thought dental appoints would be relatively smooth sailing now, but I was wrong.

Six months ago, my two kids and I went to our appointment as usual, but instead of being seen by our dentist (who was there!) we were seen by his new partner, Dr. Awful. Who:
  • Told me I needed to get my kids to stop breathe through their mouths at all times, even when sleeping, so their mouths would grow bigger.
  • Said that breathing through the nose cures allergies, ADD and ADHD.
  • Alleged that my 6 y/o has a tongue tie. "This will cause speech impediments and eating issues." He's been a precocious speaker forever, is bilingual and breastfed for a year without issue.
  • Also alleged that my 4 y/o has a tongue tie. He did have a speech delay, and was seen by a speech-language pathologist for over a year. He was specifically evaluated for tongue tie, and did not have one.
  • Had her dog on her lap for most of our visit. Not a service dog. I'm allergic; I was never asked if I wanted the dog 2 feet from me.
Fast forward to this week. I specifically requested an appointment with my dentist, and confirmed the day before that we would be seeing him. As soon as I'm in my chair for my cleanings, Dr. Awful swoops into the bay next to me where my children are being seen and evaluates them, confirming all her prior theories she spouted at me last time. Her hygienist (RDH Awful) does not tell me anything about my children's actual teeth, but instead spends 5 minutes telling me all about how great Dr. Awful is.

Oh and now untreated tongue ties cause ADHD too. And sleep apnea.

LetItGrow

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #181 on: January 10, 2019, 05:43:41 PM »
Wow, I think merula's post really puts us into foam territory.

I think my dentist has been a big churner. For a couple decades, no problem. I move here four years ago and have had to several old fillings redone and one new one. I asked for one to be orange and one to be black.

We have an issue with some tuition repayments being delayed and while some just roll with it, one has been really concerned. Then I hear him talk about new firearms, new carpet for no apparent reason, etc. He seems to do pretty good, but maybe hasn't fully connected all the dots.

familyandfarming

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #182 on: January 10, 2019, 06:08:22 PM »
Speaking of children and dentists, I would give my children $100 per year if they didn't have cavities. It was a win-win! I didn't have to spend any more time carting them back and forth and their teeth stayed in better shape with careful brushing.

Is it bad that I hoped that they had impacted wisdom teeth as teenagers as my health insurance then covered the extraction?

Miss Piggy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #183 on: January 10, 2019, 06:17:32 PM »
Is it bad that I hoped that they had impacted wisdom teeth as teenagers as my health insurance then covered the extraction?

Yes. I'm reporting you to the authorities. Expect someone to knock on your door any second to remove your (presumably) adult children from your home.  ;)

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #184 on: January 10, 2019, 07:47:04 PM »
I don’t carry dental insurance. It has such low maximum benefits, and my family’s teeth are so healthy, I don’t see the point.

I got my dentist to agree to extend the time between x-rays after he had seen me for 18 months and he realized I was telling the truth about never having a cavity in my life. Every time I go in he tells me I have the best teeth he’ll see all day, just like all the other dentists I have had. I think I have dragoncar’s strain of mouth bacteria.

My orthodontist BIL recommended that I be the one to share food, etc with our kids to see if we could get them my mouth germs instead of my wife’s. We’ll see.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #185 on: January 11, 2019, 03:56:35 AM »
Speaking of children and dentists, I would give my children $100 per year if they didn't have cavities. It was a win-win! I didn't have to spend any more time carting them back and forth and their teeth stayed in better shape with careful brushing.

Is it bad that I hoped that they had impacted wisdom teeth as teenagers as my health insurance then covered the extraction?

Can't you let their current dentist take an x-ray of the wisdom teeth area when they are 17, to see whether those teeth are laying horizontally? Then they will guatanteed give problems later and can maybe be removed preventively.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #186 on: January 11, 2019, 06:10:42 AM »

Is it bad that I hoped that they had impacted wisdom teeth as teenagers as my health insurance then covered the extraction?


My wisdom teeth had been coming in in bits and spurts for a couple of years.  Just before I lost coverage under my parents' dental insurance I found a doctor who would go ahead and take all four of them at once even though it was really just the one that was growing in sideways.  I think I had the surgery (which I woke up in the middle of...fun times) in January and turned 21 in February. 

KodeBlue

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #187 on: January 11, 2019, 07:24:11 AM »
My dentist's office actually has a computer screen in front of the patient, and when they schedule follow up visits, I can clearly see the Outlook calendar, with each patient's name and a DOLLAR amount next to the name.  That's the OOP goal for each sucker.

Wow...you can see other pt's names? Sounds like a HIPPA violation to me. Pt info is supposed to be confidential.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #188 on: January 11, 2019, 08:46:57 AM »
I was thinking about starting a new thread to complain about my recent dental experience, but now I can just piggyback on this dental foam.

To start with, my parent is a dental professional, and was always very harsh on my visits in childhood. I thought dental appoints would be relatively smooth sailing now, but I was wrong.

Six months ago, my two kids and I went to our appointment as usual, but instead of being seen by our dentist (who was there!) we were seen by his new partner, Dr. Awful. Who:
  • Told me I needed to get my kids to stop breathe through their mouths at all times, even when sleeping, so their mouths would grow bigger.
  • Said that breathing through the nose cures allergies, ADD and ADHD.
  • Alleged that my 6 y/o has a tongue tie. "This will cause speech impediments and eating issues." He's been a precocious speaker forever, is bilingual and breastfed for a year without issue.
  • Also alleged that my 4 y/o has a tongue tie. He did have a speech delay, and was seen by a speech-language pathologist for over a year. He was specifically evaluated for tongue tie, and did not have one.
  • Had her dog on her lap for most of our visit. Not a service dog. I'm allergic; I was never asked if I wanted the dog 2 feet from me.
Fast forward to this week. I specifically requested an appointment with my dentist, and confirmed the day before that we would be seeing him. As soon as I'm in my chair for my cleanings, Dr. Awful swoops into the bay next to me where my children are being seen and evaluates them, confirming all her prior theories she spouted at me last time. Her hygienist (RDH Awful) does not tell me anything about my children's actual teeth, but instead spends 5 minutes telling me all about how great Dr. Awful is.

Oh and now untreated tongue ties cause ADHD too. And sleep apnea.

Realistically, 1, you should consider finding a new dentist. If not, you need to refuse care from that provider and 2, file a complaint with the licensing board.

Cassie

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #189 on: January 11, 2019, 10:36:38 AM »
Meryl’s, that’s awful and I would find a new dentist.

merula

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #190 on: January 11, 2019, 10:42:27 AM »
Realistically, 1, you should consider finding a new dentist. If not, you need to refuse care from that provider and 2, file a complaint with the licensing board.

Definitely considering finding a new dentist. I'd love to report her, but I'm not sure if her behavior is reportable. The dog thing is weird, but in honesty I didn't say anything in the moment (and it wasn't there when I went back). The rest seems to be her professional opinion, and while it seems crazy, it's also clear from internet searching that she's not alone in those opinions.

(What I can't figure out is why all these professionals and peer-reviewed journals don't see the causation <> correlation issues with "small mouth" and "mouth breathing". Seems to me that larger mouths would be correlated with larger airway anatomy, decreasing the likelihood of mouth breathing. So larger mouths are negatively correlated with mouth breathing, but claiming that no mouth breathing CAUSES larger mouths would require randomized studies that don't appear to be done. Plus you can't exactly double-blind breathing technique. Nothing I've ever read in anthropology or human anatomy would suggest that cranial anatomy is influenced by an individual's behavior, outside of deliberate modification.)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 10:44:23 AM by merula »

billy b

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #191 on: January 11, 2019, 10:53:50 PM »
My coworker has told me in the course of a few few weeks, that his $400 Apple watch was for work, his $1,200 Apple watch was for home, he's frustrated that he's out of money by the 5th day of the month, last month he couldn't pay his $150 cell phone bill (did you know watches have sims now) and had to pay a reactivation fee to turn his service back on. And cried when he saw a Disney commercial because he couldn't afford to take his kid.   

I tried to give my coworker small bits of advice but did a whole lot of nothing. The whole thing is just wild to me. On a weekly basis my coworkers are always in shock and ahhh that I paid off my house fast (like it's mmm magic).

six-car-habit

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #192 on: January 12, 2019, 03:32:20 AM »
 MAybe Billy B's co-worker and kid can see a Disney movie on his watch screen ?

 So yeah, I work with a guy who is  ~68 yrs old, been in government service for 40+ years. Often talks about how he'll get 80% of his pay when retired, and happy he is under the old retirement system because he didn't have to put money into Social security, nor fund a 401K like the younger folks on the new retirement system [ CSRS vs FERS] . So his base pay is about 70K, plus add another 10K in shift differential, sunday, + holiday work. He could have left years ago.

Lives w/ girlfriend , her house, he has no legal interest / ownership in it. She gets minimal income from a pension. Still has a small mortgage, a few hundred a month, which he partially pays for.

 * They bought an 80's Chevrolet El Camino car for about $3000 a couple years ago, for her supposedly. In the last 2 yrs he has spent At Least $17000 on a new performance engine, body and paintwork, exhaust , various interior parts, and paying all sorts of mechanics since he will not attempt to do any of this install and upgrade work himself. 
 * No money set aside for retirement
 * They bought a brand new 20+ foot towable camper trailer about 4 yrs ago, retail was $20K plus, I am unsure of the actual amount , except they are still paying on it, and they owe more than it is worth... And they have Never used it.... Not even Once ! .... but he wants to put new tires on it in case they try to sell it.  Literally the only miles on the thing are the 50 miles between the RV dealer and their home.  It's never been slept in, not even once out in the yard.
* The 60" OLED 4K [?] TV he bought a bit over a year ago has an issue, out of warranty, "gonna need a new one"
* Chevy money pit needs tinted windows, quoted $400, "since the back window is concave curved, tricky installation"

 Genuinely a nice guy, and I've tried to make some suggestions , but it falls on deaf ears.

billy b

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #193 on: January 12, 2019, 06:02:56 AM »
Ya I'm seeing a trend. I had coworkers that wouldn't retire after 26-30 years with there pension, so they can do lots of overtime or so the X does not get it.

DutchGirl

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #194 on: January 13, 2019, 08:25:29 AM »
Co-worker moved to our country at age 30. Always complains about how his income is too low (it must be more than the median Dutch income though). But he has four kids, aged 4, 12, 20 and 25 and all of them live at home and go to school or study, so I can understand why he feels pinched.

But I talked to him on Friday and somehow the conversation came to pension plans. He apparently didn't know that in our country old pensions (from previous jobs) stay intact (they just don't grow anymore - when you worked there you built up a certain claim and that claim will stay, at most adapt to inflation but that's it). So I hope the conversation has stimulated him to look at his combined pension benefits. Hopefully that will make him feel a bit better about his future after age 67.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 10:44:59 AM by DutchGirl »

six-car-habit

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #195 on: January 13, 2019, 12:03:56 PM »
Ya I'm seeing a trend. I had coworkers that wouldn't retire after 26-30 years with there pension, so they can do lots of overtime or so the X does not get it.

 ex-coworker at supervisor level , finally retired a year ago at 72 - Had gotten divorced ~15 years ago.  Divorce agreement stipulated he would give his ex-wife 1/2 of  his retirement annuity. He got remarried, and stayed working. Didn't want to give anything to the ex-wife.

 A few years ago he became erratic in turning in maintenance +operations paperwork , personnel paperwork-requests for time off, etc..   Would tell the same stories a lot, like twice or more in the same day to the same people, often. People thought maybe senility was creeping in. But he had lots of knowledge of archaic decades old electrical systems installed in the 1930's thru 1960's and forgotten or unknown by most others, and those systems were routing power to current national defense facilities.  Management was getting frustrated as they couldn't meet the "metrics" without his workcenters paperwork, even though the workers were doing the work.

 Management solution, as they could not or would not force retirement, was to put him in charge of a 12 hr Graveyard crew shift.  Management probably Thinking the graveyard routine will sap his will to continue working. So a new crew of frustrated workers under him. Within the year he had called in 3 , possibly more times at 2-3am [ shift turnover @ midnight ] , not knowing where he was, in his truck 30 miles away in the wrong direction. I pointed out to his boss, this was reckless on their part - sooner or later he would drive the wrong way on the highway and cause a wreck.  A few months later they finally moved him to a dayshift "special project" where he lingered for a few months until his current wife convinced him to retire.

  He worked at that location over 40 yrs, nearly 50 in all .  On his last day, They gave him a cake at the noon shift turnover [ several of the folks who would have shown up to wish him well were therfore otherwise engaged in higher prioriy work ] --- out in the dirty locker filled hallway, next to the freight elevator and candy machines.......
   

BTDretire

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #196 on: January 13, 2019, 12:24:10 PM »
Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving. 

CW1 The market is crashing.  Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year. 
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest.  Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.

I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.

  I would have this need to post some stock market charts around the office, marked with $1,000 in vested here is $2,300 to today. Save and Invest for Tomorrow!

BTDretire

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #197 on: January 13, 2019, 02:21:44 PM »
But mostly I find it sad that we isolate this very important aspect of health care and people legitimately have complications and die because of it at times. Glad this lady is catching up on the care she needs.

I agree with this. But don't tell that to the dentists in private practice. If in a fairly low dentist to population area, dentists can work a 4 day work week and bank $400K+ net without being all that great of a business person and without working too hard.
I hope that's true, we are paying for my daughter to go through dental school.
It will cost pretty close to $300k by the time she's done.
She's in the later part of her first year.
Quote

There seems to be a real lack of basic understanding among them about the state of most people's finances. They don't understand why people can't/wont pay hundreds or thousands of dollars a year for dental care out of pocket. After all, if you make half a mil a year working 4 days a week, you aren't going to understand why Johnny who works 55 hours/week at the local auto parts store cancelled his routine cleaning because he didn't feel like he could afford it.

  I go to the dentist twice a year,have a mouth fill of fillings but I never thought it out of my ability to pay even
earning just above median income. I never understood dental insurance either, unless you could get it to pay for implants it seems most people will pay more than they get back. Of course, that's the way insurance works,
but dental problems don't usually bankrupt a family.

 
 
Quote
It is accurate that many potential dental patients have misplaced priorities (would rather buy a new iPhone instead of going to the dentist twice a year for cleanings and checkups), but they are marketed to like crazy for those shiny, new objects. It is never going to be sexy to go see the hygienist no matter what marketing the dentist does. And those big corporate marketing machines are effective.

I have a couple of dentists as clients and they are really great people and great clients. But they are also out of touch with the everyday Joe in the US in the current economy.

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #198 on: January 14, 2019, 06:39:04 AM »
Coworker is an accountant. No idea how much she makes but I'm sure she's paid well. Her husband is a medical professional, probably also well paid. Her husband needs to pay €800 in professional registration fees that his employer will reimburse. Apparantly this is a big problem...

Kahooli

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #199 on: January 14, 2019, 11:26:36 AM »
Not to drag out the dental part... but I have great dental insurance through my job. Cost to me is like $120/year. I see my dentist twice a year for regular cleanings and checkups, x-rays once per year, panoramic x-ray every 2-3? I'm supposed to have a copay for each visit; they never charge me for it.  Maybe the combination of having never had a cavity in my adult teeth with how little work the dentist has to do with me he is just being generous. I see him less than 3 minutes. His operation is a bit impressive, like 6-8 hygienists and one him. He recently partnered a second Dentist in to his practice and they are adding chairs. Both of them are pretty good guys, I wish everyone could have the same experience I do.