Author Topic: Overheard at Work 2  (Read 1117412 times)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3450 on: March 25, 2022, 12:09:24 PM »
A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.

In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.

I think--given the choice between sex and catholicism--my friend will choose the former.

Yea, I know a lot of ex catholics who have found a place in a local protestant church *and* a life after divorce.

Many find the Anglican church very welcoming/comfortable.  I knew an Anglican minister who had been a Catholic priest.  Oops, he fell in love, changed churches but not careers and married his wife.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3451 on: March 25, 2022, 05:36:29 PM »
A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.

In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.

I mean, not exactly? Pope Francis opened the door for more grace towards the divorced in 2016....
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/08/473484539/on-divorce-contraception-pope-calls-for-more-grace-less-dogma

But according to my *very* trad Cath SIL and family...(pssst! he's not the *real* pope).
Oh really? Which one is it then? The Russian one who said that Putin is doing a holy war?

This was a couple years ago, when she was PO'd about her church shutting down during the first death wave of Covid, and how it was prejudicial against her religion. I pointed out it wasn't - other churches were shut down, as were theaters and restaurants. I also noted that the Pope had shut down Easter Sunday services, the highest of high holy days, so she should feel better about caring for others.

Her response was that he was a Communist, and not the "real Pope". I was so shocked I didn't even know where to go next, so I decided that not pursuing that train of thought was probably for the best if I wanted to preserve a relationship with the nieces and nephew.

Gah.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3452 on: March 25, 2022, 07:12:42 PM »
I didn't even know where to go next, so I decided that not pursuing that train of thought was probably for the best if I wanted to preserve a relationship with the nieces and nephew.

Gah.

Having practiced this technique for the last 30+ years, I am currently hosting the eldest niece and nephew who are very stressed out about protecting their younger sister at least until she turns 16.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3453 on: March 28, 2022, 11:00:25 AM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3454 on: March 28, 2022, 11:42:53 AM »
As an Atheist I find the importance placed on which flavor of the same stupidity you believe in (and mostly ignore anyway) quite confusing.

I am quite impressed with those "the whole church sings" groups. It's either a fabulous example of group pressure or an incredible demonstration that group think can even win over singing shyness. I am not sure which one or both.

disclaimer: This post is meant in a joking way.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3455 on: March 28, 2022, 12:03:15 PM »
A friend of ours has built a successful business with a dozen franchises throughout the SE, and he's recently gone through a divorce. I've wondered if he'd benefit from some pay-for-play, but he's also Catholic.

In which case he's finished for life in the nooky department. No remarriage after divorce, no extramarital shenanigans.

I think--given the choice between sex and catholicism--my friend will choose the former.

Yea, I know a lot of ex catholics who have found a place in a local protestant church *and* a life after divorce.

Many find the Anglican church very welcoming/comfortable.  I knew an Anglican minister who had been a Catholic priest.  Oops, he fell in love, changed churches but not careers and married his wife.

I hear that my ex-husband and his new wife met at an Episcopalian/Anglican seminary.  I hope, for her sake, that he's gotten his shit together (he's apparently followed the drug-addiction-to-religion pipeline).

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3456 on: March 30, 2022, 07:31:30 AM »
Not overheard, a conversation.  (Bay Area)

Hey K, I’m buying a condo up by you because I decided I like it here (we currently both rent).

K:  goes through a list of many restaurants in the area I need to try.

Me mentally thinking, how often do you people eat out and no wonder I’m going to retire earlier than you.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3457 on: April 18, 2022, 08:51:11 AM »
Chatting with a coworker (and friend) and he mentioned they just got back from meeting with an insurance agent. Best I can tell, it was a full on whole life sales pitch. I gently recommended he do some research. I am very confident he is not one of the corner cases where a WL policy makes any sense at all.

I am pretty sure he was getting pressure from parents since the meeting was with “our guy” that his parents have used for years.

Fi(re) on the Farm

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3458 on: April 18, 2022, 06:24:06 PM »
Chatting with a coworker (and friend) and he mentioned they just got back from meeting with an insurance agent. Best I can tell, it was a full on whole life sales pitch. I gently recommended he do some research. I am very confident he is not one of the corner cases where a WL policy makes any sense at all.

I am pretty sure he was getting pressure from parents since the meeting was with “our guy” that his parents have used for years.

I work in an agency that regulates insurance companies and when they sell universal life and whole life they should be prosecuted. They're like snake oil pitch men.

Sugaree

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3459 on: May 10, 2022, 02:11:36 PM »
I watched someone lock in their losses today and completely exit the market because some strategist posted a blog article.  We'd just talked about this.  Granted, she's maybe a year away from retirement, so it's quite possible that her AA was not appropriate for her,  but damn man.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3460 on: May 10, 2022, 02:38:40 PM »
Chatting with a coworker (and friend) and he mentioned they just got back from meeting with an insurance agent. Best I can tell, it was a full on whole life sales pitch. I gently recommended he do some research. I am very confident he is not one of the corner cases where a WL policy makes any sense at all.

I am pretty sure he was getting pressure from parents since the meeting was with “our guy” that his parents have used for years.

I work in an agency that regulates insurance companies and when they sell universal life and whole life they should be prosecuted. They're like snake oil pitch men.

I can attest to one benefit of these god-forsaken policies.  I was sold on one of these things in my early 20's by one of those scummy financial advisors that preys on junior military officers.  Once I learned what was in it a year or so later, it gave me the motivation to actually study and learn personal finance.  Enough so that I eventually got an MBA in Finance.  It was indirectly one of the best mistakes I ever made. 

shureShote

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3461 on: May 11, 2022, 06:35:35 AM »
Chatting with a coworker (and friend) and he mentioned they just got back from meeting with an insurance agent. Best I can tell, it was a full on whole life sales pitch. I gently recommended he do some research. I am very confident he is not one of the corner cases where a WL policy makes any sense at all.

I am pretty sure he was getting pressure from parents since the meeting was with “our guy” that his parents have used for years.

I work in an agency that regulates insurance companies and when they sell universal life and whole life they should be prosecuted. They're like snake oil pitch men.

I can attest to one benefit of these god-forsaken policies.  I was sold on one of these things in my early 20's by one of those scummy financial advisors that preys on junior military officers.  Once I learned what was in it a year or so later, it gave me the motivation to actually study and learn personal finance.  Enough so that I eventually got an MBA in Finance.  It was indirectly one of the best mistakes I ever made.

USPA-IRA? Such a gem. However, similar to you, my experience with them (no insurance ever, just a super expensive mutual fund) caused me to become interested in investing and getting educated. The dollars that made into the market, after the big loads, into my IRA, are now sitting in VTSAX and they have had lots of children along the way as they moved from USPA-IRA to T.Rowe Price, to finally Vanguard.

 It’s a little bit of an isolated account due to a Roth conversion when they came out and I was in grad school in a very low tax bracket. So I can sort of see what those early years have become.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3462 on: May 12, 2022, 09:09:30 AM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids? 

AMandM

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3463 on: May 12, 2022, 09:21:45 AM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

No, married priests are allowed in the Eastern branches of the Catholic Church (e.g., Ukrainian, Byzantine, Melkite), in the Anglican Use Ordinariate, and under some circumstances in the Roman rite. A married clergyman of another denomination who converts to Roman Catholicism and discerns a vocation to the Catholic priesthood can be ordained in the RC church after his conversion (and further study) without giving up his wife and family.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3464 on: May 12, 2022, 09:25:51 AM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married.  At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest.  I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079


RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3465 on: May 12, 2022, 10:00:07 AM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married.  At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest.  I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079

I've seen the opposite: Catholic priest who fell in love, left the Catholic Church and joined the Anglican Church, married his love, and became an Anglican minister.  I know because I was a member of his Anglican Church.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3466 on: May 12, 2022, 12:54:19 PM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married.  At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest.  I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079

Thank you for this. My husband and I are Catholic and his parents are very devout Catholics. Neither of us had any idea that this was possible or knew about the Pastoral Provision. We both thought that the minister would have to become a deacon, following the same process as a lay member of the church. You learn something new every day!

shureShote

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3467 on: May 13, 2022, 06:44:19 PM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

Given the catholic church history, might be best thing for the kids to stay far far away from that criminal enterprise.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3468 on: May 13, 2022, 06:53:04 PM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married.  At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest.  I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079

I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….

AMandM

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3469 on: May 13, 2022, 10:27:10 PM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married.  At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest.  I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079

I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….

A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.

There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.


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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3470 on: May 14, 2022, 05:46:42 PM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married.  At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest.  I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079

I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….

A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.

There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.

Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3471 on: May 15, 2022, 09:26:54 AM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married.  At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest.  I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079

I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….

A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.

There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.

Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?

Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).

You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3472 on: May 15, 2022, 10:29:57 AM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married.  At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest.  I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079

I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….

A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.

There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.

Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?

Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).

You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.

Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?

Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3473 on: May 15, 2022, 02:12:35 PM »
I attend a United Methodist church, but our senior paster--married with children--just switched to become a Catholic Priest.

I find this extraordinary.  So I assume he got a divorce and... disowned the kids?

I think a married priest who converts to Catholicism can stay married.  At least that was what I was told by a friend who planned to after marriage become an priest in another church and the convert to become a Catholic priest.  I even googled it, and it seems to be a thing:

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/whats-the-deal-about-legally-married-priests-1079

I bet the same offer is not extended to women/would be nuns….

A woman who converts to Catholicism can become a nun or religious sister. If you mean she can't do that and keep living the usual family life, you're right. A nun, by definition, belongs to an order and lives in community with her sisters, and that's fundamentally incompatible with a family-based household. For a married woman to join a religious order, her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife, and if she has children they would have to be independent.

There are existing communities and associations of lay Catholics that include married couples. I don't know enough canon law to know whether it is possible to create a religious order for married couples, in which both spouses made vows.

Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?

Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).

You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.

Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?

Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?

Technically, only a Catholic marriage is a "real" marriage, a sacrament. It can only end with dead. That's how UK prime minister Boris Johnson managed to marry his third wife in a Catholic church - the first two marriages didn't count. By that logic you must be unmarried too, so I would think nothing would stop you becoming Christ's bride as long as you can leave the kids with their dad.


AMandM

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3474 on: May 15, 2022, 02:19:57 PM »
Her husband would have to agree to them ceasing to live as husband and wife? Are you saying this is not something she can decide for herself?

Sorry, I think the scope of what I was talking about was unclear. A husband can't stop his wife from leaving him, and getting a civil divorce, if that's what you're asking. But the civil divorce doesn't dissolve a marriage in the eyes of the church, so the spouses still have canonical obligations to each other.  If the wife wants to become a nun, her husband has to release her from those obligations before an order will let her undertake the new obligations of religious life.

This has nothing to do with the preposterous claim that women are property of men. It's exactly the same for a married man who wants to become a monk/friar. His wife would have to release him from  his obligations to her before an order would accept him as a candidate.

Sibley

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3475 on: May 15, 2022, 03:12:43 PM »
Well, found the Catholic :)

I don't feel like getting into a religious debate today, so I'm going to keep this short. The Catholic Church, which has existed for 2000-odd years, is therefore operating with rules, procedures, traditions, and "that's just the way its done" that span 2000-odd years. Many of those have a basis in theology - either from the beginning or created as justification or enforcement. For much of those 2000-odd years, yes, women were essentially property. Sometimes literally and legally property. So, when considering anything about how the Church operates, the historical context should be kept in mind, including when appropriate the historical role and rights of women. Because often, you can trace back any particular thing to an actual historical event, decision, cultural trend, etc if you feel like doing the research.

This concept applies more broadly of course, because that's human nature. But it's more interesting to look at it in context of something like the Catholic Church, both because it's 2000 years of history and because of the sheer scope of influence the Church has had on history and the lives of ordinary people.

Also, I'm slightly evil and I find it funny when people freak out when you point this stuff out.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3476 on: May 15, 2022, 06:32:12 PM »
Well, found the Catholic :)

I don't feel like getting into a religious debate today, so I'm going to keep this short. The Catholic Church, which has existed for 2000-odd years, is therefore operating with rules, procedures, traditions, and "that's just the way its done" that span 2000-odd years. Many of those have a basis in theology - either from the beginning or created as justification or enforcement. For much of those 2000-odd years, yes, women were essentially property. Sometimes literally and legally property. So, when considering anything about how the Church operates, the historical context should be kept in mind, including when appropriate the historical role and rights of women. Because often, you can trace back any particular thing to an actual historical event, decision, cultural trend, etc if you feel like doing the research.

This concept applies more broadly of course, because that's human nature. But it's more interesting to look at it in context of something like the Catholic Church, both because it's 2000 years of history and because of the sheer scope of influence the Church has had on history and the lives of ordinary people.

Also, I'm slightly evil and I find it funny when people freak out when you point this stuff out.

It needs pointing out.  Historical roots also need pointing out.   Tradition is dead people peer pressure/bulllying.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3477 on: May 15, 2022, 10:33:43 PM »
Well, found the Catholic :)

I don't feel like getting into a religious debate today, so I'm going to keep this short. The Catholic Church, which has existed for 2000-odd years, is therefore operating with rules, procedures, traditions, and "that's just the way its done" that span 2000-odd years. Many of those have a basis in theology - either from the beginning or created as justification or enforcement. For much of those 2000-odd years, yes, women were essentially property. Sometimes literally and legally property. So, when considering anything about how the Church operates, the historical context should be kept in mind, including when appropriate the historical role and rights of women. Because often, you can trace back any particular thing to an actual historical event, decision, cultural trend, etc if you feel like doing the research.

This concept applies more broadly of course, because that's human nature. But it's more interesting to look at it in context of something like the Catholic Church, both because it's 2000 years of history and because of the sheer scope of influence the Church has had on history and the lives of ordinary people.

Also, I'm slightly evil and I find it funny when people freak out when you point this stuff out.

It needs pointing out.  Historical roots also need pointing out.   Tradition is dead people peer pressure/bulllying.

And since it's a religion, you get a bunch people who have a fit of the vapors when you point it out. Which is fun. Did I say I'm slightly evil? Because I am.

More seriously, I have deep issues with the Catholic Church as an institution. Individuals will vary of course, you get good and bad people. But the institution I can not respect due to its actions, lack of actions, and apparent lack of willingness to address the very real damage and harm that has been done. I find the continued instance of priestly celibacy to be criminal given the widespread and repeated instances of child predation that has happened and that I'm sure is ongoing. Especially since that rule wasn't put in place until around 1000 or 1100 CE (I forget exactly, google it), and there's arguments made that the rule was only put in place for reasons of political power and wealth.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3478 on: May 16, 2022, 08:44:45 AM »
Well, found the Catholic :)

I don't feel like getting into a religious debate today, so I'm going to keep this short. The Catholic Church, which has existed for 2000-odd years, is therefore operating with rules, procedures, traditions, and "that's just the way its done" that span 2000-odd years. Many of those have a basis in theology - either from the beginning or created as justification or enforcement. For much of those 2000-odd years, yes, women were essentially property. Sometimes literally and legally property. So, when considering anything about how the Church operates, the historical context should be kept in mind, including when appropriate the historical role and rights of women. Because often, you can trace back any particular thing to an actual historical event, decision, cultural trend, etc if you feel like doing the research.

This concept applies more broadly of course, because that's human nature. But it's more interesting to look at it in context of something like the Catholic Church, both because it's 2000 years of history and because of the sheer scope of influence the Church has had on history and the lives of ordinary people.

Also, I'm slightly evil and I find it funny when people freak out when you point this stuff out.

It needs pointing out.  Historical roots also need pointing out.   Tradition is dead people peer pressure/bulllying.

And since it's a religion, you get a bunch people who have a fit of the vapors when you point it out. Which is fun. Did I say I'm slightly evil? Because I am.

More seriously, I have deep issues with the Catholic Church as an institution. Individuals will vary of course, you get good and bad people. But the institution I can not respect due to its actions, lack of actions, and apparent lack of willingness to address the very real damage and harm that has been done. I find the continued instance of priestly celibacy to be criminal given the widespread and repeated instances of child predation that has happened and that I'm sure is ongoing. Especially since that rule wasn't put in place until around 1000 or 1100 CE (I forget exactly, google it), and there's arguments made that the rule was only put in place for reasons of political power and wealth.

And this is why, although I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic schools, I only enter a church for weddings and funerals.  At those weddings and funerals I don’t take communion.  Why because cannon law says I should because I don’t consider myself to be Catholic.

I too have major issues with the Catholic Church because it is a cultural institution created in a different time who has not evolved enough.  It’s not that I have no faith in god, it’s that I have no faith in man not to manipulate god.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3479 on: May 16, 2022, 09:01:48 AM »

Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).

You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.

Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?

Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?

One of the many mysteries of our current society is that the catholic church is allowed to exist. Of all the brainwashing, abusive, sexist organizations out there, this one is allowed to dribble their hateful speech and actions without remorse or recourse. And of course without paying taxes...it is just baffling to me.


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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3480 on: May 16, 2022, 10:12:15 AM »

Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).

You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.

Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?

Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?

One of the many mysteries of our current society is that the catholic church is allowed to exist. Of all the brainwashing, abusive, sexist organizations out there, this one is allowed to dribble their hateful speech and actions without remorse or recourse. And of course without paying taxes...it is just baffling to me.

I mean there's nothing more hateful than saying love your neighbor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, take care of the sick, etc.

shureShote

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3481 on: May 16, 2022, 02:39:06 PM »

Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).

You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.

Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?

Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?

One of the many mysteries of our current society is that the catholic church is allowed to exist. Of all the brainwashing, abusive, sexist organizations out there, this one is allowed to dribble their hateful speech and actions without remorse or recourse. And of course without paying taxes...it is just baffling to me.

I mean there's nothing more hateful than saying love your neighbor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, take care of the sick, etc.

...while actually taking the action of abusing the children (and covering it up) and oppressing the women.




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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3482 on: May 16, 2022, 03:03:23 PM »

Last I checked the Catholic Church didn't allow for divorce, only annulment which would then make any children they had retroactive bastards (in the historical meaning of the word, not the colloquial).

You gotta remember - in the view of the Catholic Church, women are property of their fathers or husbands, and widows are either women of low repute (if they associate with unrelated men) or second class citizens. Nuns are property of the Church. So in the case of a wife becoming a nun, since divorce isn't possible of course the husband has to agree - she's his property, and he has to agree to give ownership of her to the Church.

Hmm, so a woman turning to the church and wanting to become a nun would not be able to do so, until they had checked with her husband? Who she’s not going to divorce anyway, since that’s not possible. What if he doesn’t take their calls, or has skipped town or something?

Although as a lapsed Lutheran I’m pretty unlikely to be joining a convent anytime soon, this is fascinating to me since I’m married to someone who is technically Catholic. But I guess our kids are bastards in the eyes of the Catholic Church anyway, since we only married in city hall and not in a church of any kind. But they are Christened the Lutheran way, is that any help at all? Or is all that Ecumenism just empty words?

One of the many mysteries of our current society is that the catholic church is allowed to exist. Of all the brainwashing, abusive, sexist organizations out there, this one is allowed to dribble their hateful speech and actions without remorse or recourse. And of course without paying taxes...it is just baffling to me.

I mean there's nothing more hateful than saying love your neighbor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, take care of the sick, etc.

...while actually taking the action of abusing the children (and covering it up) and oppressing the women.


Totally agree.  Words matter not at all, it’s the actions that show true colours.

The Catholic Church, in my opinion, is a criminal organization that should be drummed out of existence.
I can’t believe anyone supports it, financially or morally.  It appalls me.

Dee_the_third

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3483 on: May 16, 2022, 03:52:49 PM »
I mean, I would argue that the evangelical protestant church is equally terrible.

Back to the topic at hand. I have a coworker moving overseas. We had a long discussion about whether it was cost effective to ship his (Ikea-equivalent) furniture (spoiler alert: hell no, but he was convinced that he should do it because, gasp, of the expense of a furnished apartment!)

People overvalue their stuff so much. It baffles me. I tried to get him to see that the cost of shipping exceeded the value of his stuff, but he was fixated in the idea that his bed frame was 'worth' what he paid for it. No ya dingus, it's worth 25% at MOST.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 04:48:22 PM by Dee_ »

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3484 on: May 16, 2022, 04:02:14 PM »
People overvalue their stuff so much. It baffles me. I tried to get him to see that the cost of shipping exceeded the value of his stuff, but he was fixated in the idea that his bed frame was 'worth' what he paid for it. No ya dingus, it's worth 25% at MOST.
When my brother was moving a few years ago (using ABF), he calculated that the moving truck cost about $4 per cubic foot.  So, when deciding what to take, he looked at each item and thought "would it cost me more to replace this than the space it would take on the truck?"

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3485 on: May 17, 2022, 12:01:00 AM »
People overvalue their stuff so much. It baffles me. I tried to get him to see that the cost of shipping exceeded the value of his stuff, but he was fixated in the idea that his bed frame was 'worth' what he paid for it. No ya dingus, it's worth 25% at MOST.
When my brother was moving a few years ago (using ABF), he calculated that the moving truck cost about $4 per cubic foot.  So, when deciding what to take, he looked at each item and thought "would it cost me more to replace this than the space it would take on the truck?"

I have moved a lot and when I pack I look at items and ask myself. Do I want to pay for moving this?
Most of the furnitures without sentimental value are not worth to pay to move. It has resulted in that during 15 years the amount of stuff has basically been the same. Sofas have been one of the items I have sold most of the times. The bed has been one of the things that I have brought with me bit I would never ship it. I have had some Ikea bookcases that I have sold and ordered a new one at the new place.

ducky19

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3486 on: May 17, 2022, 09:55:41 AM »
I guess I tend to not look at the resale value of something (which I would agree is probably around a quarter of what I paid), but the replacement value - what would it cost me to replace it, which would be substantially higher than 25%.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3487 on: May 18, 2022, 01:44:15 AM »
I guess I tend to not look at the resale value of something (which I would agree is probably around a quarter of what I paid), but the replacement value - what would it cost me to replace it, which would be substantially higher than 25%.

Yes, I think that's the right way of thinking about it. The resale value of furniture may be pretty low, but that's not the point. The point is you need new furniture in your new space, that suits your needs and that would take time to find. You need to calculate that all in. If you have a simple Ikea Expedit cupboard, there's probably no point in taking it with you, from a financial point of view. You know that wherever you live, if you walk into any thrift shop you can always find another one for maybe €10. But other items of furniture may be difficult to find. I have a set of handmade chairs that I inherited. My (store-bought) table is exactly the right size and height for those chairs. The table has a re-sale value of about €0 since heavy oak tables are out of fashion now. Even though the table is very heavy and a pain to move, I would still take it with me because finding a replacement would be so difficult. I'd probably have to spend months visiting thrift shops over and over again until I found a table that's exactly this size, this height and sort-of matching to the chairs. And all that time I'd be without a table in my new house so that would be extremely inconvenient.

And I also always try to keep appliances like a washing machine or a stove, because I know mine are good quality and well maintained. Buying those used is very much hit or miss and it's not easy to test those before buying them. When you're finally done moving, you want a working washing machine and stove to wash your dirty clothes and cook some food, you don't want to immediately have to go and find a trustworthy repairman in your new area.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3488 on: May 18, 2022, 06:44:47 AM »
I have a similar problem. I attach almost no feelings whatsoever to 'things' and can throw away almost anything without thought (to my DW's eternal irritation).

When it came time to move, it was always a small tug of war over a variety of things we never use.

"I haven't looked at this portable Shiatsu massager in 14 months, can we get rid of it?" That sort of stuff.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3489 on: May 18, 2022, 07:06:30 AM »
I am the worst about this stuff. Bought a telescope from a family member, was moving it from one house to another and cursing myself for how little we've used it.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3490 on: May 18, 2022, 05:21:20 PM »
I guess I tend to not look at the resale value of something (which I would agree is probably around a quarter of what I paid), but the replacement value - what would it cost me to replace it, which would be substantially higher than 25%.

Ah yes, this is why it's such a coup to buy used items - someone else pays the considerable depreciation on household items.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3491 on: May 19, 2022, 11:25:23 AM »
I am the worst about this stuff. Bought a telescope from a family member, was moving it from one house to another and cursing myself for how little we've used it.

If it's quality equipment, telescopes (like most things recently) are in short supply. Look at Cloudy Night, they have a large classified section for selling used stuff. If you don't have the boxes, specify local pickup.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3492 on: May 20, 2022, 06:24:41 PM »
Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook.  Well he will use the microwave.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3493 on: June 23, 2022, 01:43:04 PM »
Was catching up with a coworker today, and a guy in his old group just bought a camper two days ago. That’s bad enough for his current financial situation as I understand it (just from general knowledge of his grade and family situation), but naturally it seems the 1/2 ton truck might now need to be upgraded to a 3/4 ton truck. Ugh, I just hope he is taking full advantage of our 401k match and the wonderfully low cost options we have. Please, just as a minimum, be putting in 6% to get a 10% match. Please.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3494 on: June 23, 2022, 02:29:09 PM »
Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook.  Well he will use the microwave.

Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.

And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3495 on: June 23, 2022, 04:41:26 PM »
Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook.  Well he will use the microwave.

Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.

And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.

We have been here for four years and never used the dishwasher. But it isn't for the same reasons: we just don't own enough dishes to fill it, so we end up doing dishes by hand. If we don't do it at the end of one meal, we usually need to do it to make the next meal. There are a few combos that let us get in extra meals, like DH likes to use a specific Tupperware for his salad or if one meal uses the sauce pan and frying pan and the next meal is baked in the oven and one of the meals uses bowls while the other uses plates...

ATtiny85

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3496 on: June 23, 2022, 05:08:28 PM »
Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook.  Well he will use the microwave.

Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.

And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.

We have been here for four years and never used the dishwasher. But it isn't for the same reasons: we just don't own enough dishes to fill it, so we end up doing dishes by hand. If we don't do it at the end of one meal, we usually need to do it to make the next meal. There are a few combos that let us get in extra meals, like DH likes to use a specific Tupperware for his salad or if one meal uses the sauce pan and frying pan and the next meal is baked in the oven and one of the meals uses bowls while the other uses plates...

Depending on your washing technique, this may be wasteful. Modern dishwashers are pretty darn efficient as I understand it.

ixtap

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3497 on: June 23, 2022, 05:44:03 PM »
Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook.  Well he will use the microwave.

Ah, that reminds me of a former coworker who once told me that in several years living (alone) in his apartment, he had never once used the dishwasher. He either ate take-out, or microwaved stuff and only ever used paper plates and paper napkins. He didn't even have regular plates. I don't remember if he had silverware or also only used disposable ones.

And no, he wasn't fresh out of college or anything. He was like 45 at the time.

We have been here for four years and never used the dishwasher. But it isn't for the same reasons: we just don't own enough dishes to fill it, so we end up doing dishes by hand. If we don't do it at the end of one meal, we usually need to do it to make the next meal. There are a few combos that let us get in extra meals, like DH likes to use a specific Tupperware for his salad or if one meal uses the sauce pan and frying pan and the next meal is baked in the oven and one of the meals uses bowls while the other uses plates...

Depending on your washing technique, this may be wasteful. Modern dishwashers are pretty darn efficient as I understand it.

This dishwasher isn't all that modern, but again, the issue is lack of dishes. We have several reasons for not wanting more and our water usage is well below average.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3498 on: June 24, 2022, 01:38:16 AM »
Depending on your washing technique, this may be wasteful. Modern dishwashers are pretty darn efficient as I understand it.

I'm fully aware of the wastefulness every time I fill my sink with hot water to do the dishes by hand.  Which is most of the time I've made food.  But for me it's a physical form of mental therapy.  Starting a machine doesn't soothe my mind the same way.  At least I'm eating out more often than I should, thereby saving the hot water consumption.  :)

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #3499 on: June 24, 2022, 07:08:06 AM »
Coworker told me today he doesn’t cook.  Well he will use the microwave.

Ah, see- my coworker takes to the next level and tries to argue that grocery shopping and cooking at home is just way too expensive compared to eating out. 

He also lives a half mile from work via some very nice sidewalks but still drives every day.   

In a brand new car.   

Then bitches about his student loan payments.