Author Topic: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans  (Read 23162 times)

ArbitraryGuy

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NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« on: June 07, 2015, 01:45:01 PM »
My interpretation of his reasoning: he doesn't like working, so he defaulted on his student loans.

Quote
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By the end of my sophomore year at a small private liberal arts college, my mother and I had taken out a second loan, my father had declared bankruptcy and my parents had divorced. My mother could no longer afford the tuition that the student loans weren’t covering. I transferred to a state college in New Jersey, closer to home.

Years later, I found myself confronted with a choice that too many people have had to and will have to face. I could give up what had become my vocation (in my case, being a writer) and take a job that I didn’t want in order to repay the huge debt I had accumulated in college and graduate school. Or I could take what I had been led to believe was both the morally and legally reprehensible step of defaulting on my student loans, which was the only way I could survive without wasting my life in a job that had nothing to do with my particular usefulness to society.

I chose life. That is to say, I defaulted on my student loans.

...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/why-i-defaulted-on-my-student-loans.html

Alabaster

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2015, 02:57:22 PM »
Wow.

"I could be a responsible adult and own up to my obligations, or I could pout and in insist that I get to do what I want. I choose to do what I want. That is to say, I bailed on my obligations."

>___>

jba302

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2015, 03:59:03 PM »
I was reading this thinking I was reading about a 33 year old until I saw the "40 years later" part. This guy is griping about 8% interest rates on probably in the range of $15,000 in initial principal. Somewhat different from $150k / 4%. Bad move on the private liberal arts college, but I have to side with lazy on this one as well.

MrStash2000

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2015, 03:59:51 PM »
This guy would make a terrible Lannister


TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2015, 04:13:25 PM »
Translation: "Waah! Waah! Waah! The universe isn't recognizing my Extreme Talent. I'm not being paid enough to support my lifestyle or the exorbitant loans I racked up learning the most academically fashionable techniques of verbal masturbation. So instead of flipping some burgers or cutting some lawns, I'm going to sit around with my thumb up my ass for FOUR FUCKING DECADES, default on my loans, and boo-hoo about it to anyone who will listen."

Writing is one of the things I do for a living. I guarantee that a person who wants to make money doing it full-time doesn't actually require a degree in English, journalism, or anything else. What's required is full mastery of high school English, working knowledge of what it is you want to write about, and 40 hours a week to put into the effort. This should start before high school graduation.

University English programs are mostly about obscure literature of the past. They pay for themselves if and only if you wish to teach English in a university setting. If you have any other aspirations, avoid majoring in English. Take it as a minor with a technical degree if you wish (that's actually a very good way to get a steady paycheck by writing), but don't devote actual money to it.

For example, a typical assignment from a university level poetry course might read: "Compare and contrast imagery in 'This Poem" by So-And-So and 'That Poem' by Such-And-Such. 800 to 1200 words, double spaced, APA style citations." A person who completes this assignment gets practice writing an essay and citing quotations, but not much else.

If you wanted to actually cause somebody to compose well crafted poetry, an appropriate assignment would be: "Compose a four-line stanza in iambic pentameter with alternate couplets rhyming. Include at least one metaphor, an alliteration, an appeal to the emotions, and a reference to classical Greek mythology. Phrases must scan well and syllables are expected to match the meter." You almost never see an assignment like this in a modern university. It's because universities don't teach people to write. They teach students to analyze other people's writing and make the appropriate, fashionable mouth noises that correspond to whatever technique the real witer is using. Trying to learn to write by going to university is like trying to learn to drive by studying the schematics of a Ford Focus.

Writer's guides are available to every idiot with a computer and an internet connection. Entire Web sites exist that are devoted to freelance writing. So, anybody who hasn't sold at least one article, story, poem, or other piece of work by age 18 either isn't trying, or is confused about his or her actual skill level, or is confused about what the profession is.

The person who wrote the article clearly doesn't realize what professional writing is, DESPITE HAVING PUBLISHED FIVE BOOKS. The field is not self-entertainment, nor is it the literary equivalent of popping zits. People who wish to write for a living need to practice writing fast, accurate copy in a variety of different styles. They need to be able to do it every day, on subjects that don't interest them, because there's a customer willing to pay for the right words on a page. Maybe it's a tombstone eulogy or a greeting card; maybe it's a technical manual for a new camera.

Incidentally, spewing out yet another book into a world that already contains millions of them does not constitute service to the world or usefulness to society, except to the extent that society acknowledges the usefulness of the book by buying it in large numbers.

The only way a writer enriches the world is by creating something meaningful enough to cause others to distribute it, save it, and hopefully pay for it. It's called "satisfying a customer". It's not an exercise in applied self-esteem. One of the biggest reasons people survive into their forties, fifties, and sixties without having their Extreme Talent recognized is because it DOES NOT FUCKING EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Stephen King taught English for years. Just saying.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 04:28:21 PM by TheGrimSqueaker »


SwordGuy

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2015, 07:04:09 PM »
Wow.

"I could be a responsible adult and own up to my obligations, or I could pout and in insist that I get to do what I want. I choose to do what I want. That is to say, I bailed on my obligations."

>___>

+100.

Mr. Sharma

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2015, 07:14:05 PM »
This guy would make a terrible Lannister
Nice.

Capsu78

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2015, 08:53:13 AM »
"Lee Siegel is the author of five books who is writing a memoir about money."

I think I will have to wait for that one to come out on DVD!

Bill76

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2015, 08:58:11 AM »
My immediate thought on why this guy's whole situation is stupid... 40 years ago, you could pay for college out of pocket by delivering pizzas during the summer.  Student loans were entirely unnecessary.  Pizza delivery may not have been quite enough to cover the fancy-pants private school that he attended initially, but definitely the state school.  Even 20 years ago when I was in college, student loans were a relatively small burden for people financing in-state tuition at public schools.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2015, 10:35:24 AM »
Jordan Weissmann at Slate just blasted this guy, and NYT too, for publishing such irresponsible nonsense.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/06/08/lee_siegel_new_york_times_op_ed_is_this_the_worst_op_ed_ever_written_about.html

ash7962

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2015, 11:22:56 AM »
I feel like there's missing info to this story.  He says his mom cosigns the loan with him and his dad declares bankruptcy after a year of his kid in college.  Was his dad paying the loan?  Why would the Dad declare bankruptcy if the loan isn't in his name?  Also, how did they not know that the loan payment would be more than they could handle??  If it was such a stretch for them then the kid should have either gone to a state school and then pursued a graduate degree at a more prestigious place (while supposedly working and being paid at his undergrad degree level).  Its probably true that this kid should not have been given the loans he was given, but the article is just complaining about bad decisions that were made.  Seems like the classic "I wanted it now without working for it upfront, but then I couldn't pay the price because the entire world is against me and nothing is my fault."  Also, I wouldn't be surprised if he's being deliberately vague about the details of his loan in order to highlight the "world is against me" theme.  I bet if he really explained the whole loan situation then we'd see a clear picture of terrible decision making.

MgoSam

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2015, 11:47:27 AM »
I hate that the NYT printed this. There are examples of for-profit schools flat out lying to kids, an oped by them would make a lot more sense. There are people with significant and actual hardships that are finding it hard to pay their loans, an oped by them would make sense. Instead they get a guy that went to an Ivy, then went back again, and then went back a third time, each time seemingly looking for a career that doesn't need a college degree.

I can't recall the last time I was deciding between books and thought, "Well these two books look equally good...but this guy went to an Ivy, so therefore he must be a good writer."

Another Reader

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2015, 11:54:22 AM »
It kind of makes the idea of bringing back debtors' prisons more appealing.....

Joshin

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2015, 12:01:05 PM »

The only way a writer enriches the world is by creating something meaningful enough to cause others to distribute it, save it, and hopefully pay for it. It's called "satisfying a customer". It's not an exercise in applied self-esteem. One of the biggest reasons people survive into their forties, fifties, and sixties without having their Extreme Talent recognized is because it DOES NOT FUCKING EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Stephen King taught English for years. Just saying.

Standing ovation. I'm also a WORKING writer. Words on the screen pays the bills, funds the accounts, and feeds the family. It also paid off my student loans -- YEARS AGO. The husband is a WORKING artist, another field often dominated by whiny, entitled child-adults.  He also paid off his student loans years ago.

All those crap jobs in my 20's? That's where I got the real working knowledge to be a fucking writer. Worked for a roofer one summer. Published an article 10 years later for a NatGeo publication on green roofing options, using the knowledge gained from that crap job. Of course, if I hadn't been paying my student loans, I could have used that life experience to write an article for the New Yorker on being a dead beat.

Oh, wait....

BlueHouse

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2015, 12:17:28 PM »
Another source is not too happy with Siegel's excuses

http://freebeacon.com/blog/sociopath-explains-why-hes-above-paying-off-his-debts/

Quote
Siegel’s ability to envision himself as an unappreciated Übermensch is something else. The whole essay drips with a massive amount of self-regard—seriously, bro, I think the world of letters would manage to survive without your contributions; even if it couldn’t, if T.S. Eliot could write The Waste Land whilst holding down a job at a bank, you probably could’ve committed your scribblings to the page too—when it doesn’t revel in mean-spirited condescension. “I’d probably be district manager by now,” he sneers, pissing all over the people who do the work his dainty hands are too good to touch.

Financial Planner Dude

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2015, 01:20:10 PM »
i tend to agree this article does a disservice to the issue of student debt, I'd highly sugust reading the commnets, both sides are equally represented This one stood out to me.

I was a divorced mother of three in the late 1980's. I wanted to finish college in hope of bettering my family’s circumstances. I signed a note for $5000. Just $5000.

I quit school when I was laid off in the early 90's during a recession that shut down the government for a few weeks. I paid on the loan for a while, but defaulted when the only work I could find was as a temp secretary. My ex-husband decided that this merited a custody battle for my children (which I won) further depleting my financial and emotional resources.

It was the blackest time of my life.

With default, penalties and interest continue to accrue; collection agencies hounded me relentlessly. I have never fully recovered.

My debt is now over $25000 with penalties and interest. 12 years ago, I arranged loan for $8000 that I offered as settlement on the then $15000 debt. I felt a $3000 penalty on the default was reasonable and fair. The collection agency turned it down.

Unlike other debt, student loans never “age out.”. My credit is permanently ruined. With a monthly payment plan, penalties and interest continue to accrue making paying off the debt impossible. I'm over 60, and have no hope of ever restoring my credit or my life. All for $5000.

The student loan program puts other predatory lenders to shame. The author is right - it’s legal but immoral, and I no longer feel any obligation to submit to such a system. My life is worth more than $5000, whatever the government thinks
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 01:30:35 PM by Financial Planner Dude »

Ramblin' Ma'am

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2015, 01:38:45 PM »
That article was ridiculous. I was reading it thinking, "Wait, didn't Lee Siegel used to write for the New Republic? Is this the same guy?" Yup, it is. I'm sure he's made enough over the years to pay off his loans--especially since he took them out 40 years ago!

Plain and simple, he didn't pay them off because he didn't want to and felt he was "above" such things.

MgoSam

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2015, 01:40:00 PM »
i tend to agree this article does a disservice to the issue of student debt, I'd highly sugust reading the commnets, both sides are equally represented This one stood out to me.

I completely agree, and yeah that story is absolutely disheartening to hear. There are so many people in bad circumstances that want to get better paying jobs and do something more meaningful with their lives. I had a lot of advantages growing up, including being born to a successful couple that made paying for college for their kids one of their biggest priorities in life (neither went to college), and so I was able to graduate without any student debt. I am lucky, while many my classmates are not. I graduated in 2009 during the midst of the recession, which meant that many businesses weren't hiring, or weren't paying much, and many of us took whatever jobs we could to be busy and get some experience. This is a hole that many people aren't going to get out of as your past salary can dictate your future promotions.

There has to be something done to change the loan industry and it's current setup. There has to be something down to the insane rate at which tuition increases.

I FUCKING hate this article because it does an absolute disservice to both.

Midwest

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2015, 01:48:27 PM »
That article was ridiculous. I was reading it thinking, "Wait, didn't Lee Siegel used to write for the New Republic? Is this the same guy?" Yup, it is. I'm sure he's made enough over the years to pay off his loans--especially since he took them out 40 years ago!

Plain and simple, he didn't pay them off because he didn't want to and felt he was "above" such things.

I don't think he's as in the clear as he believes.  Don't they garnish social security?  He certainly deserves it.

Schools, lenders and borrowers are all at fault to some degree.  Student loans don't work, however, if they are easily discharged in bankruptcy because no lender would give the loans. 

It's fascinating, our student loans of $13k were paid off within a few years of graduation on average salaries and a little hard work.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 01:51:24 PM by Midwest »

Financial Planner Dude

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2015, 01:53:35 PM »

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2015, 02:10:08 PM »
Holy crap, this guy is being ripped all over the Web.

I typed his name and "student loan" into a search engine, and the previews contained words like "excuses", "hype", disingenuous", "putz", "overeducated", "chosenite", "douche", "rationalization", "irresponsible", "entitled whiner", and "pathetic excuse for a human being." That's just in the published articles. I can only imagine the commentary.

Nobody seems to be confusing him with someone who was duped by a for-profit college or crippled by massive fines and interest after falling on bad times.

EricL

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2015, 03:42:37 PM »
Progressives are lining up to make free higher education and student loan forgiveness a thing.  So this guy needs to linkup with the Republican Party so he can become their poster boy on why not to do that.   They're going to need as many bad stereotypes as they can line up.

celticmyst08

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2015, 04:36:35 PM »
So many of my friends are linking this and talking about how inspirational it is. It's taking all my willpower to not comment. Especially because I know that all of these friends went to a private, overpriced university, didn't work during school, immediately bought new cars after college, etc.

I get that there are plenty of people with real hardships due to student loans. This dude is not one of them.

kite

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2015, 08:14:18 PM »
Won't the feds be taking his Social Security just as soon as he tries to collect?

Zamboni

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2015, 08:26:43 PM »
This guy would make a terrible Lannister
Nice.

+2 Well done, sir or madame!

kendallf

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2015, 09:40:29 PM »
A cursory search also reveals this gem: Siegel used a pseudonym to anonymously post comments defending his own articles at The New Republic, and was suspended as a result.

http://nymag.com/arts/books/features/42758/

Maybe we'll get a 'Sprezzatura' user here on MMM who thinks Siegel is just amazing!

Sofa King

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2015, 09:47:50 PM »
So many of my friends are linking this and talking about how inspirational it is. It's taking all my willpower to not comment. Especially because I know that all of these friends went to a private, overpriced university, didn't work during school, immediately bought new cars after college, etc.

I get that there are plenty of people with real hardships due to student loans. This dude is not one of them.

Remind them that if they don't pay their loans back they will one day be taking the $$$$$ out of their SSI.

Cassie Hill 2

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2015, 09:53:58 PM »
I liked that Medium article but I was a little annoyed at the whole embarrassment at not having a frame for a bed. When I got out of college I and all my fellow liberal arts grad slept on futons on the floor and no one thought anything about it. We just accepted that we had chosen paths where we would start out with smaller pay checks.

MgoSam

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2015, 10:49:59 PM »
Maybe we'll get a 'Sprezzatura' user here on MMM who thinks Siegel is just amazing!

Nice word drop, haven't heard that word used since watching "The Borgias."

cerebus

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kite

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2015, 06:14:43 AM »
A cursory search also reveals this gem: Siegel used a pseudonym to anonymously post comments defending his own articles at The New Republic, and was suspended as a result.

http://nymag.com/arts/books/features/42758/

Maybe we'll get a 'Sprezzatura' user here on MMM who thinks Siegel is just amazing!

He is amazing, in a Kardashian kind of way.  He just stood up and shouted, "look at me, the Cadillac driving welfare queen!"  His publicity stunt took any education financing reform and just sent it off the rails.  It will have the effect of delivering countless elective office seats to the persons who don't want student loan debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy.  The Conservative voice in my head is summarizing his thesis as follows:  people who default are shitty and teachers are overpaid.  I'm not alone in making that inference.  Whatever sympathy the electorate had for struggling millenials is further evaporated with a stroke of his pen.  The guy is not stupid, not with 3 degrees from Columbia.  It's fair to wonder what his (and the NYT's) intent was with this thing. 


asiljoy

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2015, 06:21:03 AM »
Well that was a hot mess of ridiculousness and I am someone who agrees that the student loan situation has gotten out of hand.

vivophoenix

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2015, 06:28:04 AM »
A cursory search also reveals this gem: Siegel used a pseudonym to anonymously post comments defending his own articles at The New Republic, and was suspended as a result.

http://nymag.com/arts/books/features/42758/

Maybe we'll get a 'Sprezzatura' user here on MMM who thinks Siegel is just amazing!

He is amazing, in a Kardashian kind of way.  He just stood up and shouted, "look at me, the Cadillac driving welfare queen!"  His publicity stunt took any education financing reform and just sent it off the rails.  It will have the effect of delivering countless elective office seats to the persons who don't want student loan debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy.  The Conservative voice in my head is summarizing his thesis as follows:  people who default are shitty and teachers are overpaid.  I'm not alone in making that inference.  Whatever sympathy the electorate had for struggling millenials is further evaporated with a stroke of his pen.  The guy is not stupid, not with 3 degrees from Columbia.  It's fair to wonder what his (and the NYT's) intent was with this thing.

I'm curious how his three degrees from Columbia make you believe that he isnt stupid. he is stupid enough to ignore what was likely a small loan balance at a reasonable rate for like 30 years. im sure if he ever qualifies for any tax refund, it is seized, and im waiting to hear how he owns nothing in his name cause of the lack of good credit and finally, im waiting for the SS garnishment.

the only reason he probably hasnt been wage garnished is he doesn't do steady w2 work.

NYTs intent was exactly what you see, million of clicks , re-posts, responses, oh  and blog threads.

if anything this article fails to give a reasonable account of what happens should you refuse to pay back your loans. he is entitled to his opinion, and sure he can give out 'advice' but he should also mention that he is extremely lucky, and everyone else would be garnished have been 30 years ago

cerebus

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2015, 06:58:44 AM »
A cursory search also reveals this gem: Siegel used a pseudonym to anonymously post comments defending his own articles at The New Republic, and was suspended as a result.

http://nymag.com/arts/books/features/42758/

Maybe we'll get a 'Sprezzatura' user here on MMM who thinks Siegel is just amazing!

Quote
I react very badly when mediocrity throws a tantrum of entitlement.
Loved that quote, tantrum of entitlement. It perfectly summarizes the article in the OP.

RocketSurgeon

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2015, 07:04:20 AM »

Rpesek6904

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2015, 07:14:55 AM »
I always hate the private school thing. Those guys always talked down to me while I attended community college and worked delivering pzza. Now they are envious of my lack of debt - but want theirs forgiven. Really, a private school and even a State University are luxuries.

theoverlook

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2015, 07:38:09 AM »
The guy's almost 60 years old and whining about his student loans.  It's like the flabby 53 year old former high school jock bragging about his conquests in varsity football and blaming a bum knee on not having made the NFL.  If you haven't dealt with it and moved on, it's sad, and not something to air out in public.  Cry about it over a tumblerfull of whiskey.

The jeremiad by the single mom is similar.  $25k in debt because she hadn't paid anything on $5k in decades?  Yeah, that sounds about right.  Pay it and move on.  You've had ample time, and now the kids are grown.  It's even easier to pay it.

Most of these people gnashing their teeth over $30k in student loans would think nothing of dropping that cash on a new Honda Accord.  But actually paying for an education that increases their earning power over their entire lifetime?  No way! That's unreasonable! Forbearance!

Maybe the lenders should figure out a way to repo an education.  If you can't pay your loans, fine: your degree is cancelled and you have to turn over the neurons that were activated (or, in my case, deactivated) by your college education.

golden1

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2015, 07:40:49 AM »
Ugh....this reminds me of the Rolling Stone article regarding campus rape, which is an actual real problem that needs to be addressed, but then RS fucked up in their research, and based it on a lying liar who lied, and now the issue has been swept back under the rug because people assume that most women are just lying now.

Student loan rules are really terrible, and reform is needed to address the system for the people who need it.  Instead, NYT posts an article by this guy, who is the worst example of an entitled asshole trying to get out of the poor decisions he made in his life. 

It's the pareto principle in reverse.  It seems like 20% of the people create 80% of the problems.  The majority of people with high student debt want to make good on their loans. 

jinga nation

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2015, 07:45:17 AM »
Pay your bills, deadbeats!

NYT has gone down the drain, their articles are pure clickbait and zero substance.

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2015, 08:08:30 AM »
This is shameful. I am an immigrant to the US, and the entitlement is really shocking.

Take my word for it. America won't be on the top for long if this continues.

celticmyst08

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2015, 09:26:53 AM »
So many of my friends are linking this and talking about how inspirational it is. It's taking all my willpower to not comment. Especially because I know that all of these friends went to a private, overpriced university, didn't work during school, immediately bought new cars after college, etc.

I get that there are plenty of people with real hardships due to student loans. This dude is not one of them.

Remind them that if they don't pay their loans back they will one day be taking the $$$$$ out of their SSI.

Heh, then they'll just start complaining about the "evil government stealing their money." You can't win when you argue with a complainypants!

jba302

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2015, 09:43:35 AM »
It's the pareto principle in reverse.  It seems like 20% of the people create 80% of the problems.  The majority of people with high student debt want to make good on their loans.

Wouldn't reserve pareto be 20%/20%? Like a straight line with m=1 for [0,1]  instead of a power law?

music lover

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2015, 09:50:22 AM »
Ugh....this reminds me of the Rolling Stone article regarding campus rape, which is an actual real problem that needs to be addressed, but then RS fucked up in their research, and based it on a lying liar who lied, and now the issue has been swept back under the rug because people assume that most women are just lying now.


I agree that even 1 rape is bad and needs to be addressed, but a study shows that campus rapes occur less than those outside of college:

"A new study from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, working with a large survey-based sample, actually finds that between 1995 and 2013, college-aged women were 1.2 times more likely to experience rape or sexual assault when they were not in college."
 
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

Luck12

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2015, 09:55:01 AM »
I always hate the private school thing. Those guys always talked down to me while I attended community college and worked delivering pzza. Now they are envious of my lack of debt - but want theirs forgiven. Really, a private school and even a State University are luxuries.

They shouldn't be luxuries.  If you get accepted you should be able to attend regardless of your financial circumstances (which 99% of the time is just the luck of what family you were born into).  Otherwise, only the rich would be able to attend Ivies and similar institutions.       

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2015, 10:04:16 AM »
English major with an MBA here. It has been a great combination for my career. Everywhere I have worked, interesting projects have come my way, usually preceded by: "You were an English major. You can write." Yes I can.

And by the way, English majors don't just read obscure poems. If they have their wits about them, they learn critical thinking and analysis. Do I think English majors should concentrate entirely on, say, Chaucer? Nope, not unless they plan on a PhD. What I did was use the flexibility of my major and my university to take courses in economics, accounting and public speaking. (Today what I did would be called a business minor.) When I got my MBA, I was just broadening skills I had already acquired.

I have hired dozens of people in my fields of financial planning and pension consulting, and the biggest predictors of success were ability to: 1) put together a spreadsheet; 2) analyze the results; 3) explain the results, in writing and in person, to someone who is non-technical. Some of my best hires were humanities majors.

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2015, 10:21:43 AM »
I always hate the private school thing. Those guys always talked down to me while I attended community college and worked delivering pzza. Now they are envious of my lack of debt - but want theirs forgiven. Really, a private school and even a State University are luxuries.

They shouldn't be luxuries. If you get accepted you should be able to attend regardless of your financial circumstances (which 99% of the time is just the luck of what family you were born into).  Otherwise, only the rich would be able to attend Ivies and similar institutions.     

Huh...you mean regardless of whether or not someone can afford to pay for tuition, they should go to college? Or are you suggesting that education should be a right, and therefore be paid for by the tax payers?

Luck12

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2015, 10:39:40 AM »
Huh...you mean regardless of whether or not someone can afford to pay for tuition, they should go to college? Or are you suggesting that education should be a right, and therefore be paid for by the tax payers?

I'm tired of attitudes like "what's wrong with community college?"  That's not far from "Let them eat cake".   I don't want kids who are intelligent and talented enough to be accepted into top tier schools to not be able to attend because their family can't afford the tuition/housing, etc.   I want a meritocracy.   With respect to the elite schools, this mainly  affects middle class people because the wealthy can afford without student loans and the poor sometimes can get a lot of institutional financial aid (though they still often have to obtain student loans).   

I don't think the author is a good example because he can afford his student loans, he just chose not to, but his larger point is sound.     
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 10:42:36 AM by Luck12 »

AJ

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2015, 11:06:42 AM »
I don't want kids who are intelligent and talented enough to be accepted into top tier schools to not be able to attend because their family can't afford the tuition/housing, etc

Kids who are intelligent and talented enough to go to top-tier schools do get to go, even poor and middle-class.

From Harvard's website:

Quote
  • 20% of our parents have total incomes less than $65,000 and are not expected to contribute.
  • Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income, and those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10%, based on their individual circumstances. Families at all income levels who have significant assets will continue to pay more than those in less fortunate circumstances.
  • Home equity and retirement assets are not considered in our assessment of financial need.

So it's free for middle-class families, and even ones with six-figure incomes are only asked to pay in proportion to what they make. And that is before these "talented and intelligent" kids get ANY scholarships.

The kids who are being told to go to community college first rather than university are the average ones - and there is nothing wrong with average students starting in community college.


Luck12

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Re: NYT Op-Ed: Why I defaulted on my student loans
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2015, 12:10:20 PM »
I don't want kids who are intelligent and talented enough to be accepted into top tier schools to not be able to attend because their family can't afford the tuition/housing, etc

Kids who are intelligent and talented enough to go to top-tier schools do get to go, even poor and middle-class.

From Harvard's website:

Quote
  • 20% of our parents have total incomes less than $65,000 and are not expected to contribute.
  • Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income, and those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10%, based on their individual circumstances. Families at all income levels who have significant assets will continue to pay more than those in less fortunate circumstances.
  • Home equity and retirement assets are not considered in our assessment of financial need.

So it's free for middle-class families, and even ones with six-figure incomes are only asked to pay in proportion to what they make. And that is before these "talented and intelligent" kids get ANY scholarships.

The kids who are being told to go to community college first rather than university are the average ones - and there is nothing wrong with average students starting in community college.

I already know all that.  That's only Harvard, a school with the largest endowment.  Others are generous too, but there are many elite schools that are not nearly as generous.  It's a vicious competition and not every great student gets to attend Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Stanford.  Why should a student who gets into say Vanderbilt have to forgo attending in favor of say University of Tennessee simply because he can't afford the cost?  That is just completely counter to any notion of meritocracy.