Author Topic: No, I won't buy into your MLM  (Read 181430 times)

carolinap

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #850 on: April 12, 2018, 09:31:43 AM »
do these MLM sellers not realize that people might notice a difference from their normal, relatively articulate posts and their suddenly peppy posts with nearly every other word interrupted by a corresponding emoji? it's nice for the reader, because it's easy to notice what it is right away and move past the ad, but still. not the best marketing move.

The people who create email spam or the bots that troll chat rooms never moved past that either.

fair point! i suppose by my same argument, one would assume that this reasonably intelligent acquaintence of mine would recognize a pyramid scheme when she saw one - which clearly also hasn't happened.

Sad, isn't it? I've had to unfollow old friends on Facebook and block group invites because I got sick of the constant shilling for Rodan+Fields, Jamberry, Lularoe, Nerium, 31 Bags, Lipsense...and now an otherwise very intelligent old college friend is selling some new stick-on nail product (her very obviously scripted announcement went up today).

I've read about the theory that those ads and bots are PURPOSELY bad. It's easy and cheap to spam thousands but it takes effort to chat one-by-one to actually recruit or sell, so those ads are an excellent filter to only keep those who are really clueless.

The same thing with other scams, like "Nigerian Prince" stuff. Those emails are terrible and only really naive people will answer, and from those people they can actually get the money.

dmac680chi

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #851 on: April 12, 2018, 06:54:27 PM »
do these MLM sellers not realize that people might notice a difference from their normal, relatively articulate posts and their suddenly peppy posts with nearly every other word interrupted by a corresponding emoji? it's nice for the reader, because it's easy to notice what it is right away and move past the ad, but still. not the best marketing move.

The people who create email spam or the bots that troll chat rooms never moved past that either.

fair point! i suppose by my same argument, one would assume that this reasonably intelligent acquaintence of mine would recognize a pyramid scheme when she saw one - which clearly also hasn't happened.

Sad, isn't it? I've had to unfollow old friends on Facebook and block group invites because I got sick of the constant shilling for Rodan+Fields, Jamberry, Lularoe, Nerium, 31 Bags, Lipsense...and now an otherwise very intelligent old college friend is selling some new stick-on nail product (her very obviously scripted announcement went up today).

That’s the sad part when someone you think of as being rather smart starts selling that stuff.



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StockBeard

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #852 on: April 12, 2018, 09:16:43 PM »
I've read about the theory that those ads and bots are PURPOSELY bad. It's easy and cheap to spam thousands but it takes effort to chat one-by-one to actually recruit or sell, so those ads are an excellent filter to only keep those who are really clueless.

The same thing with other scams, like "Nigerian Prince" stuff. Those emails are terrible and only really naive people will answer, and from those people they can actually get the money.

Interesting, never thought about it this way.

craiglepaige

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #853 on: May 03, 2018, 11:45:16 AM »
While driving on Sunday I saw a mobile LuLaRoe unit - meaning someone took a stepvan/truck and turned it into a LuLaRoe "store".

The truck looked in overall great shape and the side display looked top notch. I'm betting it wasn't a cheap ordeal - more than likely $10k+ easily.

I wonder if they recouped the money before everyone became a "consultant"? Maybe they did, impossible to know.

lbmustache

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #854 on: May 03, 2018, 11:53:57 AM »
I am soooooo tired of people hitting me up for this. And it's always the same old trite BS... "are you tired of your 9-5" "don't you want to find another way" "look great and earn money too" etc. Uh, aren't YOU working your 9-5, while ALSO selling these bogus products on the side? Leave me alone!

Sibley

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #855 on: May 03, 2018, 01:20:52 PM »
I've read about the theory that those ads and bots are PURPOSELY bad. It's easy and cheap to spam thousands but it takes effort to chat one-by-one to actually recruit or sell, so those ads are an excellent filter to only keep those who are really clueless.

The same thing with other scams, like "Nigerian Prince" stuff. Those emails are terrible and only really naive people will answer, and from those people they can actually get the money.

Interesting, never thought about it this way.

On the other hand, it is a very handy way to discretely evaluate how much you need to worry about your elderly relatives. My parents are not quite to the stage of falling for it - they're checking with me or sister because they're not sure. But it's worrying for the future.

Beard N Bones

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #856 on: May 03, 2018, 02:29:19 PM »
While driving on Sunday I saw a mobile LuLaRoe unit - meaning someone took a stepvan/truck and turned it into a LuLaRoe "store".

The truck looked in overall great shape and the side display looked top notch. I'm betting it wasn't a cheap ordeal - more than likely $10k+ easily.

I wonder if they recouped the money before everyone became a "consultant"? Maybe they did, impossible to know.

You need to wonder no longer!  I've got your answer.
(Unless they are the originators of the company, and its most likely they aren't,) they did NOT recoup their money.  The following two articles articulate the reasons I am confident in saying so:
1.  MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING UNMASKED – A Complete and Compelling Case against MLM as an Unfair and Deceptive Practice by Jon M. Taylor
http://banvaz.com/MLM.pdf
2.  The Myth of "Income Opportunity" in Multi-Level Marketing by Robert L. FitzPatrick
http://www.pinktruth.com/wp-content/uploads/fitzpatrick-mlm-study.pdf

Kalergie

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #857 on: May 04, 2018, 01:44:47 PM »
Has anyone else been asked out for coffee by a friend and think hey it would be good to catch up only for them to open their ipad/laptop and show you a video on why you should join Dreamtrips/World Ventures and then try to convince you it's not MLM? Happened to me twice. So annoying. I really thought they wanted to catch up. Sigh.
Happened to me this morning. 

CheapskateWife

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #858 on: May 04, 2018, 03:49:56 PM »
I've read about the theory that those ads and bots are PURPOSELY bad. It's easy and cheap to spam thousands but it takes effort to chat one-by-one to actually recruit or sell, so those ads are an excellent filter to only keep those who are really clueless.

The same thing with other scams, like "Nigerian Prince" stuff. Those emails are terrible and only really naive people will answer, and from those people they can actually get the money.

Interesting, never thought about it this way.

On the other hand, it is a very handy way to discretely evaluate how much you need to worry about your elderly relatives. My parents are not quite to the stage of falling for it - they're checking with me or sister because they're not sure. But it's worrying for the future.
That is a very interesting yard stick...several years back, my dad wondered about my grandfather's cognitive abilities as he went from self employed mechanical engineer, to a guy who was seemingly addicted to buying As-seen-on-TV products.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #859 on: May 08, 2018, 12:37:54 PM »
OMG...the "Hey girl...did you have a chance to check out...?"

I know it's a cliche...but do they have to do it?

Hey girl...I'm 47 effing years old.

Anyway, hey Beachbody has a new eating plan out, dontcha know?  I love reading about diet and fitness, and buying cookbooks and food plan books and such...it's kinda a hobby of mine.  But I want to answer:

"hey girl, I'm kinda busy.  Husband traveling, kid baseball playoffs, running a half marathon this weekend, big work projects...not happening any time soon." 

And "well, for now I kinda have it all figured out, ya know?  I'm at a healthy weight, don't need to lose any, what I'm doing is working...not sure a $75 'plan' with videos and such and '4 new tricks' is really what I need".

Plus I'm a dinosaur and I HATE videos.  Hate them.  I want to read a book.

iris lily

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #860 on: May 11, 2018, 07:53:22 AM »
OMG...the "Hey girl...did you have a chance to check out...?"

I know it's a cliche...but do they have to do it?

Hey girl...I'm 47 effing years old.

Anyway, hey Beachbody has a new eating plan out, dontcha know?  I love reading about diet and fitness, and buying cookbooks and food plan books and such...it's kinda a hobby of mine.  But I want to answer:

"hey girl, I'm kinda busy.  Husband traveling, kid baseball playoffs, running a half marathon this weekend, big work projects...not happening any time soon." 

And "well, for now I kinda have it all figured out, ya know?  I'm at a healthy weight, don't need to lose any, what I'm doing is working...not sure a $75 'plan' with videos and such and '4 new tricks' is really what I need".

Plus I'm a dinosaur and I HATE videos.  Hate them.  I want to read a book.
The only “hey girl” message I will respond to is it it comes from Ryan Gosling himself.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 07:55:04 AM by iris lily »

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #861 on: May 12, 2018, 01:39:50 AM »
Now Rodan + Fields is facing a lawsuit...

http://www.scarymommy.com/cosmetic-mlm-company-rodan-and-fields-is-being-sued-and-absolutely-no-one-is-surprised/?utm_source=FBOnsite

Quote
The suit alleges that Rodan + Fields did not disclose the use of an additive that can cause severe side effects, including vision impairment.

Court documents filed in April 2018 in U.S. District Court in Oakland state, “Consumers of Lash Boost … have experienced serious side effects, including change(s) in iris color, eyelid drooping, itchy eyes, eye/lid discoloration, thinning and loss of eyelashes/loss of eyelash hair, eye sensitivity, eye infections, and vision impairment.”

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #862 on: May 12, 2018, 10:08:44 AM »
Now Rodan + Fields is facing a lawsuit...

http://www.scarymommy.com/cosmetic-mlm-company-rodan-and-fields-is-being-sued-and-absolutely-no-one-is-surprised/?utm_source=FBOnsite

Quote
The suit alleges that Rodan + Fields did not disclose the use of an additive that can cause severe side effects, including vision impairment.

Court documents filed in April 2018 in U.S. District Court in Oakland state, “Consumers of Lash Boost … have experienced serious side effects, including change(s) in iris color, eyelid drooping, itchy eyes, eye/lid discoloration, thinning and loss of eyelashes/loss of eyelash hair, eye sensitivity, eye infections, and vision impairment.”

300,000 consultants?!  Either a) half those folks have no customers or b) every other adult in America has to be buying this stuff.

craiglepaige

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #863 on: May 12, 2018, 12:05:16 PM »
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #864 on: May 13, 2018, 06:24:19 PM »
I don't have any new MLM stories lately, but someone I went to high school with has a conflict of interest on her sleeve that nobody else seems to notice (and pumping personal contacts for financial gain which this thread got me thinking).  A couple years ago she started hitting us all up on Facebook to go on a cruise.  I thought it was out of the blue and aside from accepting her as a FB friend ages ago I never even looked at her profile. This time I took a notice that her profile pic was of her in a Dominoes uniform which seemed odd for someone trying to put together a cruise. I dug a little deeper and saw that she is part of some travel agency group of which she appears to be the only employee (their facebook page is nothing but photos of her).  The cruise idea died on the vine from lack of interest.  Fast forward to this weekend where she's taken it upon herself to organize our 20th class reunion. She wants to do it at a casino a couple hours from where we all grew up which will include a venue, group hotel reservations, flights, and some other things that have to be booked well in advance (that she needs to be in the loop on for some reason).  I can't help but wonder if she's getting some kind of deal or kickback out of this arrangement that she's not disclosing.

So the reunion this summer is officially dead.  We're within the window for making venue reservations and only a handful of people confirmed their attendance.  A smaller group of us decided we're going to just barbecue or get together at a restaurant that we can reserve later this summer when more of our schedules intersect.  The "organizer" who complained in the Facebook group chat all morning long about how we need to put some more effort into this put forth "let's just plan something next summer that we can properly organize like trying the casino again or a cruise."  Nobody in our class but her is suggesting a cruise. Most of the folks I went to school with can't afford it.  Nobody has called her out directly, but a couple other classmates who know she's doing this to try get some kind of booking fee have made it loudly known these ideas of her will never work with our class.

MrsWhipple

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #865 on: May 13, 2018, 08:13:35 PM »
Just got hit up by an old college acquaintance who is selling Jamberry. "Hey Girl!" When I was in college, I chewed the crap out of my nails. I never wore makeup or fancy clothes. Why oh why does she think I would ever buy overpriced crappy nail wraps is beyond me. But I guess she's just spamming her friends list randomly. Block, block, block. I hate being targeted like that, it makes me feel like I'm not a person to them, just a mark.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #866 on: May 14, 2018, 09:16:21 AM »
Now Rodan + Fields is facing a lawsuit...

http://www.scarymommy.com/cosmetic-mlm-company-rodan-and-fields-is-being-sued-and-absolutely-no-one-is-surprised/?utm_source=FBOnsite

Quote
The suit alleges that Rodan + Fields did not disclose the use of an additive that can cause severe side effects, including vision impairment.

Court documents filed in April 2018 in U.S. District Court in Oakland state, “Consumers of Lash Boost … have experienced serious side effects, including change(s) in iris color, eyelid drooping, itchy eyes, eye/lid discoloration, thinning and loss of eyelashes/loss of eyelash hair, eye sensitivity, eye infections, and vision impairment.”

300,000 consultants?!  Either a) half those folks have no customers or b) every other adult in America has to be buying this stuff.
I know a few of these consultants.  One of them is a quite successful college graduate/ businesswoman in her own right.  So, I can totally get that there are products that you try, and like, and work for you.  For example.  (Though I'd argue there are probably much cheaper equivalent "product" out there, I don't use "product", so I don't know.)

Most recent FB post about her awesome upcoming trip to Greece with her boyfriend, financed by her "side job" at R+F! 

I dunno.  With the proliferation of Beachbody coaches -I've got a lot of people who suggest to me a "side gig" (or like the guy at the gym: "you should go back into the reserves and collect a pension eventually!").  While the idea of another stream of income is attractive -
I'm 47 fucking years old - do I need a side gig?
I have a full time job and 2 kids (um, they are my "side gig?"  Or maybe my second full time job.)

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #867 on: May 16, 2018, 09:03:02 AM »
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".

If you need a reminder watch YouTube. There are people there who are unrecognizable once they are all dolled up.

OtherJen

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #868 on: May 16, 2018, 09:42:46 AM »
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".

Right?! A couple of years ago, I kept seeing ads for products containing "snail extract" (i.e., the slimy mucus produced by snails). No thank you.

Topic. One of my friends has started selling 31 Bags. She's not pushy about it in person, but I might need to unfollow her on Facebook because she posts about a dozen times per day when she's having an online party.

Two other friends are now selling essential oils. I've gotten some super fun unsolicited advice about which essential oils I should use for my seasonal allergies because they're "so much better" than pharmaceuticals. Apparently pharmaceuticals are "chemicals" and "chemicals" are always bad, despite that they were designed to specifically target histamine receptors, have passed through rigorous research and clinical trial protocols with good safety and efficacy outcomes, and are much cheaper as Costco generics than little bottles of unregulated substance from a pyramid scheme. (I have degrees in biochemistry and immunology. I have no patience for woo-woo.)

FireHiker

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #869 on: May 16, 2018, 09:46:10 AM »
OMG...the "Hey girl...did you have a chance to check out...?"

I know it's a cliche...but do they have to do it?

Hey girl...I'm 47 effing years old.

Anyway, hey Beachbody has a new eating plan out, dontcha know?  I love reading about diet and fitness, and buying cookbooks and food plan books and such...it's kinda a hobby of mine.  But I want to answer:

"hey girl, I'm kinda busy.  Husband traveling, kid baseball playoffs, running a half marathon this weekend, big work projects...not happening any time soon." 

And "well, for now I kinda have it all figured out, ya know?  I'm at a healthy weight, don't need to lose any, what I'm doing is working...not sure a $75 'plan' with videos and such and '4 new tricks' is really what I need".

Plus I'm a dinosaur and I HATE videos.  Hate them.  I want to read a book.

OMG you sound exactly like me! I mean, I'm not at the healthy weight yet, but I'm getting there. Just sub out baseball for soccer and put the half marathon in 2.5 weeks. :) If you have any food plan for fitness books you could recommend as I'm getting more serious about it, would you mind sharing what they are? I'd rather read a book than a video too...I HATE videos and thought I was the only one who felt that way!

A slight acquaintance who absolutely does NOT know me is trying to push this new Beachbody eating plan. I got an email from her recently with that EXACT intro: Hey girl, have you had a chance to check out..." so this is absolutely hysterical to me (and a little sad...well, maybe a lot sad). I turn 40 this year and have three kids, and work as an engineer. I don't wear makeup or go out. There is exactly ONE person who can say "hey girl" to me and it won't make me crazy, and it is NOT random beachbody person I don't know...

craiglepaige

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #870 on: May 16, 2018, 10:14:23 AM »
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".

If you need a reminder watch YouTube. There are people there who are unrecognizable once they are all dolled up.


I have unfortunately seen a few. I kind of feel bad for the women.

https://youtu.be/USTvFDum8po

OtherJen

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #871 on: May 16, 2018, 10:55:18 AM »
Oh lord, now the friend who sells essential oils is hosting a party for the friend who sells 31 Bags. It just keeps morphing and expanding.

Freedom2016

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #872 on: May 16, 2018, 11:15:36 AM »
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".

If you need a reminder watch YouTube. There are people there who are unrecognizable once they are all dolled up.


I have unfortunately seen a few. I kind of feel bad for the women.

https://youtu.be/USTvFDum8po

That just sent me on a half hour detour...

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #873 on: May 16, 2018, 11:48:20 AM »
Oh lord, now the friend who sells essential oils is hosting a party for the friend who sells 31 Bags. It just keeps morphing and expanding.

Cross-pollinating MLMs. Is there a pill for that? Or an insecticide?

MgoSam

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #874 on: May 16, 2018, 02:09:31 PM »
I recently had a friend that messaged me on Facebook a month or so ago.

I posted on my page asking for friends to tell me their travel hacks and any websites/apps they used to find cheap tickets. I got a decent amount of responses, many of which were helpful, and a message from this friend who said something along the lines of, "Sounds like you are traveling a ton, do you have time to meet recently or are you too busy?"

Polite I responded that even if I am busy I am happy to make time for a friend if they tell me what they want to meet about (essentially are you wanting to catch up or is there something urgent), and he responded by asking if I could meet at various times. To which I responded, "Sorry I'm busy," after going to his page and seeing a bunch of Beachbody stuff.

Dude just be honest and tell me that it is a sales pitch. I would have been massively pissed if he managed to con me into a meeting only to discuss Shakesology or some other nonsense.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #875 on: May 16, 2018, 05:13:08 PM »
OMG...the "Hey girl...did you have a chance to check out...?"

I know it's a cliche...but do they have to do it?

Hey girl...I'm 47 effing years old.

Anyway, hey Beachbody has a new eating plan out, dontcha know?  I love reading about diet and fitness, and buying cookbooks and food plan books and such...it's kinda a hobby of mine.  But I want to answer:

"hey girl, I'm kinda busy.  Husband traveling, kid baseball playoffs, running a half marathon this weekend, big work projects...not happening any time soon." 

And "well, for now I kinda have it all figured out, ya know?  I'm at a healthy weight, don't need to lose any, what I'm doing is working...not sure a $75 'plan' with videos and such and '4 new tricks' is really what I need".

Plus I'm a dinosaur and I HATE videos.  Hate them.  I want to read a book.

OMG you sound exactly like me! I mean, I'm not at the healthy weight yet, but I'm getting there. Just sub out baseball for soccer and put the half marathon in 2.5 weeks. :) If you have any food plan for fitness books you could recommend as I'm getting more serious about it, would you mind sharing what they are? I'd rather read a book than a video too...I HATE videos and thought I was the only one who felt that way!

A slight acquaintance who absolutely does NOT know me is trying to push this new Beachbody eating plan. I got an email from her recently with that EXACT intro: Hey girl, have you had a chance to check out..." so this is absolutely hysterical to me (and a little sad...well, maybe a lot sad). I turn 40 this year and have three kids, and work as an engineer. I don't wear makeup or go out. There is exactly ONE person who can say "hey girl" to me and it won't make me crazy, and it is NOT random beachbody person I don't know...

@FireHiker  Ah ha ha ha I am also an engineer.  Great minds.

So, what worked well for me to lose the "I had a baby at 42" weight was actually the Beachbody program 21-day fix.  Color coded containers, and honestly, all the info is available on line these days if you dig for it.  Here's why it worked for me:

- 2 servings of carbs a day (1/2 cup of rice, 1 slice of toast, 1/2 cup of beans - these are a carb).  Prior to 21-day fix, I was still trying to stick to 6 servings in the food pyramid
- "What to Eat" by Luise Light.  You see, 21-day fix worked, but only a little bit.  Because I was resistant to only 2 carbs a day.  Four months in, I read this book, and it clicked with me that I couldn't eat all. the. carbs.  I found her book through "Death by Food Pyramid" by Denise Minger.
- I didn't really know how to eat food without carbs.  Cereal for breakfast, sandwich for lunch, pasta for dinner.  So...I bought (for $1) a book by Chris Powell on carb-cycling (E-book on Amazon).  The low carb days literally have one serving of carbs for breakfast.  I did this for about a month, and the book helped me figure out what the heck to eat without carbs (seems silly that I needed it, but whatever).
- After that, it was easier.

Once I hit goal weight, I adjusted things a bit because 21-day fix just had too much protein for me.  I shifted towards a bit more carbs (2-4 servings a day, and now I count beans as a protein), and more fat. 

Then last year I started having problems with wheat (digestive) and when I eliminated it I lost 8 lbs unintentionally (I didn't cut carbs or calories, just subbed different ones).

In any event, a little recon tells me that my regular eating plan is almost identical to this new Beachbody program.  Ha! I eat plenty of fat

Breakfast:
- A carb and a protein with fat (oatmeal w/ peanut butter and banana.  Eggs and tortillas.  GF toast with cheese.  Yogurt and fruit with granola)

Snack
- fruit and nuts

Lunch:
- salad.  Always salad.  Lots of veggies and greens (3-4 cups).  Olive oil based dressing and I don't skimp on it. Cheese (1/2 to 1 oz).  Olives.  2 Tbsp of sunflower seeds.  Sometimes additional protein but not necessary.

Dinner:
- a protein, a carb and vegetables.  1/4 of the plate protein (beans count) - about 1/2 cup.  1/4 of the plate carb.  At least a cup of veggies, usually with plenty of olive oil or tahini or avocado or cheese.

FireHiker

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #876 on: May 16, 2018, 05:31:20 PM »
@mm1970, thanks!! I've been focusing so much on the fitness end of things training for a half marathon and a big hike (Mt Whitney) in July that I've just been eating whatever I want. The weight is still coming off, just MUCH slower than it would be if I paid more attention to the diet side of things. Diet is 80% of it after all, and I bet if I could drop 20-30 pounds my times would get faster too. I'm going to check if my library has those books you mentioned. It's so funny to me that the sensible eating approach is what BeachBody is packaging as a "new" plan. Call it something new and charge a bunch of money, and people will go for it I guess.




mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #877 on: May 16, 2018, 07:36:49 PM »
@mm1970, thanks!! I've been focusing so much on the fitness end of things training for a half marathon and a big hike (Mt Whitney) in July that I've just been eating whatever I want. The weight is still coming off, just MUCH slower than it would be if I paid more attention to the diet side of things. Diet is 80% of it after all, and I bet if I could drop 20-30 pounds my times would get faster too. I'm going to check if my library has those books you mentioned. It's so funny to me that the sensible eating approach is what BeachBody is packaging as a "new" plan. Call it something new and charge a bunch of money, and people will go for it I guess.

I think it's just funny because it took a long awhile, but I got there on my own.  It also seems a lot like "Volumetrics".

I think it can be very helpful and useful for people who eat a lot of carbs and are resistant to cutting them.  Until I read a bunch of books, I literally could not figure out how to eat a meal without them.  Now, protein, fat, and veggies is normal to me.

Also, I wouldn't try too hard to drop weight while training for a half marathon or to do Whitney either.  I ran a half last year that was basically all uphill with a 4000 ft elevation gain.  I ate whatever I wanted!
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 09:49:35 PM by mm1970 »

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #878 on: May 16, 2018, 11:21:48 PM »
I recently had a friend that messaged me on Facebook a month or so ago.

I posted on my page asking for friends to tell me their travel hacks and any websites/apps they used to find cheap tickets. I got a decent amount of responses, many of which were helpful, and a message from this friend who said something along the lines of, "Sounds like you are traveling a ton, do you have time to meet recently or are you too busy?"

Polite I responded that even if I am busy I am happy to make time for a friend if they tell me what they want to meet about (essentially are you wanting to catch up or is there something urgent), and he responded by asking if I could meet at various times. To which I responded, "Sorry I'm busy," after going to his page and seeing a bunch of Beachbody stuff.

Dude just be honest and tell me that it is a sales pitch. I would have been massively pissed if he managed to con me into a meeting only to discuss Shakesology or some other nonsense.

I know there's an insurance MLM, I wonder if they do travel insurance?  That, or maybe he's into oils or something "to keep you from getting sick on the plane, or to help you adjust to jet lag, or...!"

merula

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #879 on: May 17, 2018, 09:20:30 AM »
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?

If you have more details, please send them.

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #880 on: May 17, 2018, 09:27:56 AM »
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?

If you have more details, please send them.

Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica

dreadmoose

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #881 on: May 17, 2018, 10:01:14 AM »
Indeed, my biggest relationship with MLM's is through Primerica (an Uncle and his whole family). They sell insurance and incredibly horrible mutual funds (4% MER's with deferred sales charges all through them that are swapped over every 2 years it seems to a new one).

It has recently started serious turmoil with their immediate family as they're all approaching retirement age. They have obviously gotten nowhere with the amount of churning and management fees they've been paying. I'm pretty shocked it's not an actual criminal offense to take people's money like that.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #882 on: May 17, 2018, 11:20:50 AM »
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?

If you have more details, please send them.

Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica

In Canada (and presumably US) there is also World Financial Group. They want you to be their client, but especially to then sign up to work for them in order to bring in all your contacts. I don't know all the details but I believe WFG owns the clients (or your team leader or whatever). So if you leave, they don't care- more clients for them.

A lot of money is made by having people under you. I think they sell a lot of whole life, while Primerica has focused on term.

(Also an independent insurance professional.)

craiglepaige

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #883 on: May 17, 2018, 11:42:29 AM »
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?

If you have more details, please send them.

Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica

In Canada (and presumably US) there is also World Financial Group. They want you to be their client, but especially to then sign up to work for them in order to bring in all your contacts. I don't know all the details but I believe WFG owns the clients (or your team leader or whatever). So if you leave, they don't care- more clients for them.

A lot of money is made by having people under you. I think they sell a lot of whole life, while Primerica has focused on term.

(Also an independent insurance professional.)

A good friend of mine got caught up in this. She ended up losing over $2k in seminars, fees and licensing.

Complete waste.

Cookie78

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #884 on: May 17, 2018, 11:47:10 AM »
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?

If you have more details, please send them.

Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica

In Canada (and presumably US) there is also World Financial Group. They want you to be their client, but especially to then sign up to work for them in order to bring in all your contacts. I don't know all the details but I believe WFG owns the clients (or your team leader or whatever). So if you leave, they don't care- more clients for them.

A lot of money is made by having people under you. I think they sell a lot of whole life, while Primerica has focused on term.

(Also an independent insurance professional.)

A good friend of mine got caught up in this. She ended up losing over $2k in seminars, fees and licensing.

Complete waste.

My cousin and her husband do this. 'Changed their life' apparently.

Before I knew anything about anything I went with them to a couple WFG related events/meetings. My spidey senses were on overdrive the whole time.

Goldielocks

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #885 on: May 17, 2018, 01:20:58 PM »
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?

If you have more details, please send them.

Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica

In Canada (and presumably US) there is also World Financial Group. They want you to be their client, but especially to then sign up to work for them in order to bring in all your contacts. I don't know all the details but I believe WFG owns the clients (or your team leader or whatever). So if you leave, they don't care- more clients for them.

A lot of money is made by having people under you. I think they sell a lot of whole life, while Primerica has focused on term.

(Also an independent insurance professional.)

Yes, I did a deep dive into this business for a acquaintance who was pitched it.

The end result is that if you have a strong network and want to cold call to a LOT of people, and don't mind selling over priced financial products to people you like, you can make money, even if you don't have any financial certification / training before you start.  (they train you and get you certified for selling the basic items in the first six months.).

My acquaintance was an immigrant with a working visa, and new to Canada.   So this, for the right person, can lead into more $$ than working at burger king.  BUT, you need to have a network, be personable and smart, and put in a LOT of calling / cold calling.

The products were shitty for the people buying them, however.  They had even sold group educational plans "Heritage Plan" Education trusts, which we know were very costly to the purchasers and profitable to the sales people.

At the end of 2 years, the rational person in this company would leave WFG and get hired with Edward Jones or another mutual fund group to make more (2-5x more) money, but those other big guys are not going to hire a new immigrant with no financial experience.

The "closed door and you can't leave the room" intro and educational sessions for the new hires are set up like AMWAY, and they charge you for them, too.

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #886 on: May 17, 2018, 02:01:41 PM »
Oh man- I didn't realize primerica was the crap that we had to listen to when I did my pre-cana before my wedding in 2004.  (I just remembered a red umbrella.)
They wanted us to give 5 names of friends who could also use financial advise.  But their advise was so ridiculous we declined.

I can't remember what funds and budget they set up for us, but when i was asked a dream car, I said a Prius. The guy said he didn't know how much a Prius costs, so he estimated $70k as that was about the same as the Boxster my husband answered with. (Also- my husband has no intention of ever actually purchasing one of those).

The internet was around in 2004. He could have figured out the price of a prius. So we steered very very clear. I'm glad we did.

greengardens

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #887 on: May 17, 2018, 07:07:53 PM »
slightly OT but what are the ethics of buying an MLM product off ebay? I really like some Mary Kay products, but don't want to get spammed by a consultant. I noticed that former consultants are offloading their products on ebay for less than retail. On one hand, I want a good deal on a product I like, on the other I feel slimy for taking advantage of their misfortune.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #888 on: May 17, 2018, 07:41:34 PM »
slightly OT but what are the ethics of buying an MLM product off ebay? I really like some Mary Kay products, but don't want to get spammed by a consultant. I noticed that former consultants are offloading their products on ebay for less than retail. On one hand, I want a good deal on a product I like, on the other I feel slimy for taking advantage of their misfortune.

I would think of it as being an agent of Karma. Besides, if the MLM dealer feels like she's in danger of being ripped off, all she needs to do is to set a reserve price below which she will not sell the product. You may actually be helping her out by making it possible to get some of her money out of the pyramid scheme, since by the time she starts offloading her makeup stash she'll generally have wised up about Mary Kay.

sherr

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #889 on: May 17, 2018, 07:45:18 PM »
slightly OT but what are the ethics of buying an MLM product off ebay? I really like some Mary Kay products, but don't want to get spammed by a consultant. I noticed that former consultants are offloading their products on ebay for less than retail. On one hand, I want a good deal on a product I like, on the other I feel slimy for taking advantage of their misfortune.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it. Or even buying direct from your friend if you like the product. The slimy thing about MLMs is the pyramid scheme nature of it and the often shoddy untested products, but there's nothing inherently evil about buying the product from your friend if you like it. Besides, buying off of people who are unloading and getting out is actually doing them a favor. You're helping them recoup some of their losses instead of having to take a dead loss.

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #890 on: May 17, 2018, 07:47:29 PM »
slightly OT but what are the ethics of buying an MLM product off ebay? I really like some Mary Kay products, but don't want to get spammed by a consultant. I noticed that former consultants are offloading their products on ebay for less than retail. On one hand, I want a good deal on a product I like, on the other I feel slimy for taking advantage of their misfortune.

They're the ones putting their inventory on E-Bay as a last ditch attempt to get something back for failing at the business.  Aren't you doing them a disservice by not buying it?

merula

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #891 on: May 18, 2018, 09:45:54 AM »
Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica

In Canada (and presumably US) there is also World Financial Group. They want you to be their client, but especially to then sign up to work for them in order to bring in all your contacts. I don't know all the details but I believe WFG owns the clients (or your team leader or whatever). So if you leave, they don't care- more clients for them.

A lot of money is made by having people under you. I think they sell a lot of whole life, while Primerica has focused on term.

(Also an independent insurance professional.)

Yes, I did a deep dive into this business for a acquaintance who was pitched it.

The end result is that if you have a strong network and want to cold call to a LOT of people, and don't mind selling over priced financial products to people you like, you can make money, even if you don't have any financial certification / training before you start.  (they train you and get you certified for selling the basic items in the first six months.).

My acquaintance was an immigrant with a working visa, and new to Canada.   So this, for the right person, can lead into more $$ than working at burger king.  BUT, you need to have a network, be personable and smart, and put in a LOT of calling / cold calling.

The products were shitty for the people buying them, however.  They had even sold group educational plans "Heritage Plan" Education trusts, which we know were very costly to the purchasers and profitable to the sales people.

At the end of 2 years, the rational person in this company would leave WFG and get hired with Edward Jones or another mutual fund group to make more (2-5x more) money, but those other big guys are not going to hire a new immigrant with no financial experience.

The "closed door and you can't leave the room" intro and educational sessions for the new hires are set up like AMWAY, and they charge you for them, too.

Thanks everyone. This is mind boggling. In case it needs to be said, don't buy insurance from someone unless you know what they're making on it and it seems reasonable.

Oh man- I didn't realize primerica was the crap that we had to listen to when I did my pre-cana before my wedding in 2004.  (I just remembered a red umbrella.)
They wanted us to give 5 names of friends who could also use financial advise.  But their advise was so ridiculous we declined.

I can't remember what funds and budget they set up for us, but when i was asked a dream car, I said a Prius. The guy said he didn't know how much a Prius costs, so he estimated $70k as that was about the same as the Boxster my husband answered with. (Also- my husband has no intention of ever actually purchasing one of those).

The internet was around in 2004. He could have figured out the price of a prius. So we steered very very clear. I'm glad we did.

This is somewhat confusing because, in the insurance world, a red umbrella usually means Travelers, but they do property/casualty and not any MLM or financial advisor stuff. Unless your wedding was in the 1995-2005 time frame when Citi owned the red umbrella. But still, Citi is a reputable financial services company for the most part.

ETA: Now I get it; Primerica is a spin-off of Citi, so they probably did use the red umbrella when Citi owned it and they were part of Citi. I was thinking of some other reasons in my qualifier on Citi's reputation; I guess I can add this to the list.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 09:49:15 AM by merula »

Rowellen

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #892 on: May 18, 2018, 03:47:07 PM »
I caught up with some friends yesterday.  One of them started talking about ASEA and how she wants to make a "business" out of it. I kept quiet as the warning bells were going off. Googled later. Yep MLM. Once the conversation turned, I asked how her studies were going. If she brings it up again, I have come up with some scripts to say.

Maenad

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #893 on: May 21, 2018, 04:59:28 PM »
Over on reddit someone was talking about several people who approached them with "a couple I know who retired in their 30s took me under their wing and showed me how". So apparently they're trying to co-opt FIRE now. Can't roll my eyes hard enough.

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #894 on: May 22, 2018, 12:43:06 PM »
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".

If you need a reminder watch YouTube. There are people there who are unrecognizable once they are all dolled up.


I have unfortunately seen a few. I kind of feel bad for the women.

https://youtu.be/USTvFDum8po

Me too.

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #895 on: May 22, 2018, 12:53:57 PM »
They had even sold group educational plans "Heritage Plan" Education trusts, which we know were very costly to the purchasers and profitable to the sales people.

I can't stand companies (and politicians) that twist and corrupt words like that. Examples: freedom when their real intentions are to make rules that apply to you and me but not so much to them and their's.

Anymore these are words that make my internal warning bells sound.

FireHiker

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #896 on: May 22, 2018, 01:00:25 PM »
Also, I wouldn't try too hard to drop weight while training for a half marathon or to do Whitney either.  I ran a half last year that was basically all uphill with a 4000 ft elevation gain.  I ate whatever I wanted!

Damn, 4000 ft elevation gain? Where was that? I am definitely not worrying much about the diet end of things too much at this point, and I've still dropped a clothing size.

prudent_one

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #897 on: May 22, 2018, 04:44:28 PM »
I can empathize with people who get into an MLM hoping to eke out some extra income. My mom sold Tupperware for a few years as a second job when my dad was laid off of his regular job and was doing anything to pay the mortgage. She made some money but you couldn't look at it based on hourly wage because trading time for $ was a no-brainer, no matter how little the $. Every dollar was important.

It's harder to understand professionals doing it. I have a co-worker who is a department head making good money yet peddles some kind of aromatherapy junk. I suspect it's more about someone who loves the products and signs up to be a reseller in order to get their own stuff cheaper.  I see that she puts the flyers in the copier room but I've never heard her talk about it.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #898 on: May 22, 2018, 06:12:20 PM »
Also, I wouldn't try too hard to drop weight while training for a half marathon or to do Whitney either.  I ran a half last year that was basically all uphill with a 4000 ft elevation gain.  I ate whatever I wanted!

Damn, 4000 ft elevation gain? Where was that? I am definitely not worrying much about the diet end of things too much at this point, and I've still dropped a clothing size.

https://www.halfmarathons.net/course-map-pier-to-peak-half-marathon/

It was...an experience.  It was 75F at the start, 85F by mile 4, and 95F by the half way point.  It was brutal.  Ugh.  I finished anyway, and a whole 10 minutes before they started dismantling the finish line.  I melt in the heat.

FireHiker

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #899 on: May 23, 2018, 10:28:02 AM »
Wow, that's brutal. I could run it in the opposite direction. ;) My brother lives in Ventura and does ultras; I wonder if he's ever run that route for training. It looks right up his alley. I hate running in the heat; it's my big weakness that I guess I'll be addressing this summer as it warms up.

To get back on track: Another facebook friend request from someone I don't know that I think MAY be another MLM person based on the common friends...sigh.