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Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: NorthernDreamer on March 20, 2017, 10:59:32 AM

Title: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: NorthernDreamer on March 20, 2017, 10:59:32 AM
As a woman (and mother) in her mid-30s, I know many other women (and mothers). Many stay at home (I do not). Apparently MLMs are the new work-at-home goldmines. According to Facebook, I now know people who sell:
- Usborne books (actually decent books, that I purchase once in a while)
- Lipsense ($75 for a lip product "system" that's going to burn my lips and spout questionable science at me?)
- Amway (just, no)
- Life Leadership
- Jamberry
- essential oils
- Lularoe (okay leggings are fantastic but now apparently they are falling apart, and are quite overpriced)
- 31 gifts (bags?)
- Pampered Chef
- Mary Kay

Never mind the ones who have tried to invite me to Stella & Dot (overpriced costume jewellery), Arbonne (I am a drug-store buying minimalist, thanks), and 31 gifts (no opinion because I just don't attend home parties). Ugh. Thank goodness I don't know a Beachbody/Shakeology rep. I can appreciate they are trying to make some money on the side, but I am not sure why they can't see that most are thinly veiled pyramid schemes and that the products are so expensive not because they are "worth it" but because of how the profits filter up in these companies.

Actually the Life Leadership rep is a male childhood friend of my husband's. He lives a few hours away and was going to be in town "on business" and wanted to come over and catch up. Unfortunately it was because he wanted to talk to us about a "business opportunity". We shut him down and quick. I can tell it really hurt my husband because the old friend never ended up stopping by once he knew that my husband wanted to "keep business out of it and just visit".

Rant over. (For now...)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on March 20, 2017, 11:24:49 AM
I've lost friendships over MLM.

The worst one my bro-in-law's friend tried to trick us with was "It Works: Have You Tried That Crazy Wrap Thing?" As soon as he said that, I asked him if it was a referral program. He said yes, I said I'm not interested and told him that any attempt to talk about his product or job will get him kicked out of the house.

He gave me a can of an energy drink and a retail-packaged satchet of a green weight-loss powder. I pointed out that neither product listed ingredients so I wasn't going to use them, plus I don't drink sodas or energy drinks. He still insisted, and placed one can in the fridge.

We let him stay in the house for a week as a courtesy, he was clean and polite, but my wife chewed out her brother for giving our info to this guy. Luckily he left the house in the morning before we did for his conference, and came back at a decent time at night before we went to bed.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KMMK on March 20, 2017, 11:32:51 AM
Yeah, it's getting really annoying. I was at my sister's the other day and she said she only invited people who weren't involved in a MLM; so we could complain about them, and not insult anyone.

And I had two encounters with World Financial Group people last week - so annoying. Worse than the typical "ladies" MLMs, as they also get tons of money out of their clients by pretending they are giving free services.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Cezilous on March 20, 2017, 11:48:21 AM
Strains friendships and family relationships when there is a pressure-to-buy thing going on.  No thank you.  Long ago I went to a Mary Kay party, I think it was the second one I ever attended (I came home from the first one totally confused, so I willingly accepted the invite to the 2nd one because I didn't know what MLM was at the time and I saw so many pretty/shinies).  I ended up buying two pieces of jewellery (I never wear any) and a few weeks afterwards, the equation made sense in my head and I said nope. nope nope nope, to the rest of it.

My partner's friend has gotten involved in something else that will allow her to travel around the country selling things for the MLM, and she was so  excited about hosting parties, etc..  I realized that, knowing how these schemes work, it is not in my personality to rip people off like that, to take such advantage, to work the "but if you buy 3, you'll get the 4th 75% off!  Come on, you know you want to!" especially when someone has made such an effort to be so frugal..  Sigh.  :(
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 20, 2017, 11:57:26 AM
What, no Younique?
Because SAHM's need eyelashes that rival Lady Gaga's at a concert!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ysette9 on March 20, 2017, 12:10:51 PM
Threads like this make me so grateful that no one I know, in the real world or on FB, participates in these schemes.

What does MLM stand for?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: pachnik on March 20, 2017, 12:17:28 PM
I think it stands for multi-level marketing. 

I don't know anyone doing MLMs right now either.  I have in the past though. 

Does anyone know if Avon is an MLM?  I don't think it is.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: NorthernDreamer on March 20, 2017, 12:23:01 PM
What, no Younique?
Because SAHM's need eyelashes that rival Lady Gaga's at a concert!

Ha! No Younique. I don't think it's as big of a thing in Canada.

(yet)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: slugline on March 20, 2017, 12:23:24 PM
And I had two encounters with World Financial Group people last week - so annoying. Worse than the typical "ladies" MLMs, as they also get tons of money out of their clients by pretending they are giving free services.

World Financial Group is a confirmed MLM? I know virtually nothing about them, but that would certainly explain the frequent and glowing Facebook posts by a relative of mine.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: charis on March 20, 2017, 12:23:38 PM
I hate these as a rule, generally, but I attended a pampered chef party for a neighbor (it was very low-key with lots of kids running around and no actual pressure to buy).  I did not buy anything at the party, but I did agree host one for the same neighbor at my house so I could get a discount on a few kitchen items that we still use pretty regularly.  Only 3-4 people came and my husband entertained their children in the backyard with pizza and water balloons.   I served food and drinks and it was fun.  I repeatedly told my guests that they didn't have to buy anything (to the chagrin of the rep probably) because I would get the discount just for hosting.

I know a few Rodan and Fields sellers and accidentally went to a Lia Sophia party once that tainted my view of these gatherings.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: gardeningandgreen on March 20, 2017, 12:45:56 PM
My parents are a part of a MLM that sells some sort of fish oil that is supposed to cure basically every thing under the sun... It drives me up a wall when you can get the same product for half the price or less. It also has an expensive test that supposedly tells you how much better you are after 6 months of taking the oil. Of course the test is done by the company selling the oil. Yes they have a money back guarantee if the test shows you aren't doing better. The test always shows you are doing better... I wish they would stop wasting their money. I did listen to one of their sales pitches. I made it clear that they could get just as good of a product with out the stupid sales and they had nothing to say.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on March 20, 2017, 12:56:25 PM
Ugh. I get invited to these things ALL. THE. TIME. by ladies in my neighborhood.
I've got a "friend" in my FB feed that has quit her full time job to do LulaRoe. She AND HER HUSBAND post all these "because of LulaRoe" posts on FB. It's annoying. I wonder what will happen when there are too many reps or when everyone already owns a pair of leggings and they go out of style?
You forgot-
Wild Tree
Isagenix
and my latest invite-
Better Way Imports

I think I'm starting to get a reputation in the neighborhood for going to these parties, drinking wine and NOT buying anything. This month alone I was invited to THRE parties- Stella & Dot, LipSense and Better Way Imports.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on March 20, 2017, 01:59:09 PM
What does MLM stand for?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on March 20, 2017, 02:18:32 PM
As a woman (and mother) in her mid-30s, I know many other women (and mothers). Many stay at home (I do not). Apparently MLMs are the new work-at-home goldmines. According to Facebook, I now know people who sell:
- Usborne books (actually decent books, that I purchase once in a while)
- Lipsense ($75 for a lip product "system" that's going to burn my lips and spout questionable science at me?)
- Amway (just, no)
- Life Leadership
- Jamberry
- essential oils
- Lularoe (okay leggings are fantastic but now apparently they are falling apart, and are quite overpriced)
- 31 gifts (bags?)
- Pampered Chef
- Mary Kay

Never mind the ones who have tried to invite me to Stella & Dot (overpriced costume jewellery), Arbonne (I am a drug-store buying minimalist, thanks), and 31 gifts (no opinion because I just don't attend home parties). Ugh. Thank goodness I don't know a Beachbody/Shakeology rep. I can appreciate they are trying to make some money on the side, but I am not sure why they can't see that most are thinly veiled pyramid schemes and that the products are so expensive not because they are "worth it" but because of how the profits filter up in these companies.

Actually the Life Leadership rep is a male childhood friend of my husband's. He lives a few hours away and was going to be in town "on business" and wanted to come over and catch up. Unfortunately it was because he wanted to talk to us about a "business opportunity". We shut him down and quick. I can tell it really hurt my husband because the old friend never ended up stopping by once he knew that my husband wanted to "keep business out of it and just visit".

Rant over. (For now...)

Ha ha ha this was funny.  I know lots of Beachbody folks if you want an intro!

Thing is, I've been to some of these.
- CAbi (clothing).  I'm not a clothes horse.  Haven't bought anything in over 5 years.  But I have to say, the items that I bought over the 3 years I was invited to these things - they are very flattering, are my favorites, and have held up really well over time.  Both physically and stylistically.  So that was a win.
- Pampered Chef.  I own a few items that I use daily.  My last PC party (that I attended) was well over 11 years ago.
- Stella & Dot.  I don't wear jewelry but I do have a pretty necklace.

Other thoughts:
- Beachbody.  I love the workouts. But honestly, the business is getting weak for coaches.  I can tell really from the ones that I know.  First, you get money from selling shakeology and workouts.  Except the workouts are available streaming for very little ($99/ yr for ALL workouts).  So good luck selling DVDs.  Second, the shakes are overpriced.  The rest of the income is from building a "team", which is just BS classic MLM.  From what I hear from friends, beachbody recently changed their rules that you cannot do more than one subscription or MLM.  Which means I think they are realizing that smart people who want the workouts are going to sign up for the streaming service.  I think they are cutting out a whole bunch of "coaches".  That's my theory anyway. 

- Books.  My cousin sells these.  I have plenty of books.
- Nails and leggings.  Nope and nope
- Skin care.  Can't remember the name.  I have a few friends who have had fantastic results with this one skincare line.  But I googled it and it's something like $120 a month.  And...the regimen is something like 15-20 minutes a day.  I mean, I'm 46, and who wouldn't want to look 25 again?  But 15-20 minutes a day?  I wash my face in the shower.  Oh yeah, I read the other responses.  Rodan and Fields!
- Essential oils.  Please, just no.
- there was a phone/ internet/ electric services one too
- makeup.  Hmm...another cousin.  Which was it? Oh yeah, POSH
- eyelashes.  Please no.
- Now I remember my next door neighbor with some "superfoods chocolate", 13-14 years ago.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on March 20, 2017, 02:35:51 PM

- Essential oils.  Please, just no.


LOL, I didn't know that essential oils was a MLM thing. I saw a friend of mine post about how she just started using them and likes it and as I import incense infusers I thought I would give them a try. Well she texted me a long sales pitch and I realized it was a MLM...WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT!!!!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: RWD on March 20, 2017, 03:04:45 PM
And I had two encounters with World Financial Group people last week - so annoying. Worse than the typical "ladies" MLMs, as they also get tons of money out of their clients by pretending they are giving free services.

World Financial Group is a confirmed MLM? I know virtually nothing about them, but that would certainly explain the frequent and glowing Facebook posts by a relative of mine.

Yes. "World Financial Group (WFG) is a multi-level marketing company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Financial_Group)"
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: farmecologist on March 20, 2017, 03:08:36 PM
Another MLM I have seen on Facebook is "Thrive"...

In fact, these MLMs...and people trying to make a 'business' our of social media ( usually Facebook ), at the expense of their 'friends'...is one of the reason I pretty much quit Facebook!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: redbird on March 20, 2017, 03:13:25 PM
I once had a co-worker who sold Avon as a side-gig. The fact that I don't wear makeup made her not bother trying to market to me. That's the only actual exposure I've had to an MLM personally.

I think it helps that I'm not a social person though.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: WhiteTrashCash on March 20, 2017, 03:15:52 PM
I still have a lot of friends and relatives back on Hillbilly Mountain and a lot of them are involved in these pyramid schemes -- and that's what MLM is, so let's call a spade a spade. Pyramid schemes prey on very desperate people. The last thing someone living in a trailer on welfare needs is to end up being fooled by snakeoil salesmen into buying hundreds of dollars of a product they will never be able to sell. And that's how these pyramid schemes always end up. I know so many people with a pantry full of self-purchased, overpriced Amway non-perishable food.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on March 20, 2017, 03:18:36 PM
I don't have any new MLM stories lately, but someone I went to high school with has a conflict of interest on her sleeve that nobody else seems to notice (and pumping personal contacts for financial gain which this thread got me thinking).  A couple years ago she started hitting us all up on Facebook to go on a cruise.  I thought it was out of the blue and aside from accepting her as a FB friend ages ago I never even looked at her profile. This time I took a notice that her profile pic was of her in a Dominoes uniform which seemed odd for someone trying to put together a cruise. I dug a little deeper and saw that she is part of some travel agency group of which she appears to be the only employee (their facebook page is nothing but photos of her).  The cruise idea died on the vine from lack of interest.  Fast forward to this weekend where she's taken it upon herself to organize our 20th class reunion. She wants to do it at a casino a couple hours from where we all grew up which will include a venue, group hotel reservations, flights, and some other things that have to be booked well in advance (that she needs to be in the loop on for some reason).  I can't help but wonder if she's getting some kind of deal or kickback out of this arrangement that she's not disclosing.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Bracken_Joy on March 20, 2017, 03:29:12 PM
God these drive me up the WALL. I'm right in the prime SAHP MLM age group. Large town/Small city. So much MLM trash. I never go to any of the parties. I get FB invites ALL the time. I've started replying to a lot of them with John Oliver's MLM clip ;) Not to close friends, just the 'friends of friends' who somehow find me.

For those who haven't seen it: https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI (https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI) John Oliver is always fantastic =) He swears a lot though, so be warned for 'sensitive ears'.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 20, 2017, 03:37:49 PM
I once had a co-worker who sold Avon as a side-gig. The fact that I don't wear makeup made her not bother trying to market to me. That's the only actual exposure I've had to an MLM personally.

I think it helps that I'm not a social person though.

You're lucky. Avon sells so much more than makeup!  I hear all about bug spray and sunscreen.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MoneyMage on March 20, 2017, 03:50:32 PM
Oh man, I run the other direction...

Lularoe... sorry but your leggings are UGLY and not worth the $25 or whatever. Wow. For just a few bucks more I can buy designer leggings from wildbangarang.com in the UK, and not only is the quality great, but they have leggings that look like fucking SPACE ARMOR, not to mention the art styles from the National Gallery.

Jamberry... talk about boring and overpriced. $15+ for a bunch of stickers for your nails??? Those can't cost more than $1-2 a sheet to produce and they're asking $15+. Don't get me wrong, I like nail wraps, but EspionageCosmetics.com has really cool, unique styles I've been buying at $5 a sheet. Even at full price the designer ones are like $12, and their sales are predictable, just wait for one and stock up. Plus you don't need anything fancy to put them on just some scissors and a nail file.

Every scheme in general... look, if you're a rep then I'm now going to start assuming that every time you reach out to hang with me, you actually have an ulterior motive, to get me to buy your shit that I don't need. If I don't buy something you're going to be offended somehow, and I will feel unnecessary guilt, or at least wonder if I've offended you. So in order to maintain a pleasant relationship with you, I'm obligated to buy things I don't need. Does that sound like a healthy relationship? Nope.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: rockstache on March 20, 2017, 04:00:59 PM
Anyone dealt with plexus yet?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on March 20, 2017, 04:26:20 PM
Amway!  Back in my Navy days, I had a roommate for 6 months who was into Amway.  Gotta tell you, I didn't have to buy a roll of TP or paper towels that whole 6 months!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: VeggieGirl on March 20, 2017, 04:45:41 PM
I've been lucky, I've only had to endure one tupperware party way back when. Haven't been to any other such parties since. Whew!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Just Joe on March 20, 2017, 05:22:07 PM
We had a coworker who was selling some sort of diet powder. Didn't do the friend any good, why would it do us any good?

Wouldn't it be nice if these "friends" just wanted to be friends you could share a meal and a board game/movie/porch time with instead?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: AMandM on March 20, 2017, 05:42:29 PM
I must be the only person on the forums who's exposed to these but not bothered.  I've been to a few MLM parties in my life and felt no pressure to buy anything.  I have a SIL who sells Mary Kay and another who sold Tupperware; we socialize with no mention of the business.  Occasionally I buy a lipstick.  It's really not a big deal at all.

Maybe it's because both these SILs sell as a side gig to their real jobs. Neither of them preaches the MLM gospel because neither of them believes it herself. I think for them it's mainly a way to get the product for herself at a discount.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: tralfamadorian on March 20, 2017, 07:56:17 PM
Those can't cost more than $1-2 a sheet to produce...

I used to have a side gig selling metallic nail stickers on ebay.  I had some made by a sticker companies for ~5 cents/sheet.  And that was for runs of only ~1000 sheets. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: charis on March 20, 2017, 08:17:56 PM
I must be the only person on the forums who's exposed to these but not bothered.  I've been to a few MLM parties in my life and felt no pressure to buy anything.  I have a SIL who sells Mary Kay and another who sold Tupperware; we socialize with no mention of the business.  Occasionally I buy a lipstick.  It's really not a big deal at all.

Maybe it's because both these SILs sell as a side gig to their real jobs. Neither of them preaches the MLM gospel because neither of them believes it herself. I think for them it's mainly a way to get the product for herself at a discount.
The main reason that everyone mentioned for being bothered was the pressure to buy. If you've never been pressured, it would make sense that you aren't bothered by it. I mentioned something similar in my post. The issue is that many of these companies advocate or require preying on friends and family. Which is generally a turn off.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on March 20, 2017, 11:19:01 PM
And I had two encounters with World Financial Group people last week - so annoying. Worse than the typical "ladies" MLMs, as they also get tons of money out of their clients by pretending they are giving free services.

World Financial Group is a confirmed MLM? I know virtually nothing about them, but that would certainly explain the frequent and glowing Facebook posts by a relative of mine.

Yes. "World Financial Group (WFG) is a multi-level marketing company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Financial_Group)"

The sad part is how little the average agent (bottom tier) gets paid for a lot of hustle and work.  The positive part is that they do get paid something from each sale, and they get low cost training that is decent for securities/ mutual fund licenses....  for people without other degrees or new to the country, it can work out if they switch out after a year or two to another firm.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: havregryn on March 20, 2017, 11:46:53 PM
I actually feel very sorry for all these people who bug me with this. At least among those I know, they all seem to genuinely believe they are building a great work from home business and a passive income stream. When in reality they are probably just financially straining their families even more. Sometimes I even buy some of that crap out of sheer pity even though I'm not sure if that helps as it might reinforce the belief that it is a sustainable business.
Here the main thing is some aloe vera stuff called Forever Living and some cosmetics called Nu skin or something like that.
I once posted on a facebook group of moms in the area about a friend looking for a job with babysitting in mind and got about a dozen private messages about this great opportunity for my friend. It was hard to tell with some if they were deliberately being deceptive or they genuinely believed the crap they were telling me, somehow it really felt that the latter was the case. I think in their training they are taught to talk about the "job" that way, even if their experience is radically different (as I really don't believe any of them make the money worth calling this a job).
But as said, I don't really get annoyed when these people approach me, I feel quite a bit of compassion for their terribly misguided sense of business and finances. As it's really all stay at home moms who dream about contributing to their household financially and end up prey to an older generation of equally deluded women...you rarely get to meet any of the hot shots who actually make money on this and then they're not selling the product or trying to recruit someone they know.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: FIreDrill on March 21, 2017, 01:10:13 AM
I know someone who pushes Plexus products and it drives me totally nuts. No nutritional information with claims of fixing sooo many issues....  The worst part is that all this person posts about anymore is plexus products.  I don't have you as a friend to hear about the crap you're selling.  It would be one thing if it was a casual post here and there but when your pushing a product in 90% of your posts then that's when you're just being stupid.

Rant over... For now...

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Villanelle on March 21, 2017, 02:26:18 AM
This is so, so prevalent among military spouses.  I understand the temptation.  Sustaining a career (or even employment) when you are moving so often is tough, and when you are the only parent home for months at a time, I'm sure that makes working even more difficult. 

But it is absolutely insane how many of these people are around me.  I'm actually fairly grateful that due to the nature of my husband's position now, I have a built in excuse not to go to these, if I'm invited.  Also, in-home parties seems to be less and less common.  Now, it seems to mostly be done online (Join my 31 Bags Facebook group party!).  That makes it so much easier for someone like me who has trouble saying no in awkward situations, to just fade in to the background. 

And yes, the people who only want to talk to you if you are expressing interest in either their products or in joining their "team" are actually pretty shitty human beings. 

I once had a coworker return from her Amway retreat and sit down with my in my cube trying to get me to learn more about how I could be working for myself in only a few years!!! with this great opportunity.  And she wouldn't take my repeated gentle nos as an answer.  had she not been a good friend of my supervisor, and would it not have been social suicide in the office to have done so, I would have reported her.  Bad enough to ask at all, but to basically trap me at my desk and continue to push even when I demured?  Way over the line. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on March 21, 2017, 06:44:01 AM
I work in a DoD/military environment. Some co-workers were pushing ViSalus. One's wife quit her job to start a fitness studio, which was basically a front for pushing the products. Studio shut down a couple of years later.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 21, 2017, 06:58:30 AM
I hate the "facebook party" thing.  If you are going to want me to guilt buy something because you invited me to a party, you at least need to feed me some appetizers!

I had a cousin try to get me to buy usborne books. "To start the new baby's library. I'm available to do facebook parties on X, Y, and Z date- which one works best for you?"  LOL.  All I had to do was tell her all my friends names, and she would do the rest!

Um, no thanks. Also, I've gotten a pretty decent stash of usborne books from Buy Nothing, and I suspect the stash of them will get even bigger once it is warm enough for garage sales. Those things are a dime a dozen. Paying full price would be insane.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: DragonSlayer on March 21, 2017, 07:05:07 AM
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.

I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on March 21, 2017, 07:17:20 AM
What really gets on my nerves is when you go to an in home party and on top of the ridiculous prices you have to pay "shipping".
I was recently at a Better Way Imports party. On top of a $50 necklace or bag they wanted 10% for shipping. (I didn't buy anything) Then I saw the host post after the party that the purchases had arrived and people could pick them up. So they charge 10% in shipping and it doesn't even come directly to your house?? They ship it in one big box to the hosts house.
Same thing with Pampered Chef. If you want to buy a tiny set of measuring spoons you have to pay a flat $5 in shipping. That's crazy. (they do make an awesome pizza cutter though, for my mustacian homemade pizzas)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: charis on March 21, 2017, 07:25:42 AM
What really gets on my nerves is when you go to an in home party and on top of the ridiculous prices you have to pay "shipping".
I was recently at a Better Way Imports party. On top of a $50 necklace or bag they wanted 10% for shipping. (I didn't buy anything) Then I saw the host post after the party that the purchases had arrived and people could pick them up. So they charge 10% in shipping and it doesn't even come directly to your house?? They ship it in one big box to the hosts house.
Same thing with Pampered Chef. If you want to buy a tiny set of measuring spoons you have to pay a flat $5 in shipping. That's crazy. (they do make an awesome pizza cutter though, for my mustacian homemade pizzas)

I was shocked about the shipping cost for Pampered Chef too.  It's all one shipment.  But on the pizza topic, we use our PC pizza stone regularly - I may have to look into the cutter.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TravelJunkyQC on March 21, 2017, 07:28:26 AM
Our neighbour, who my BF was friends with, started selling essential oils in the past few months. When she started posting on Facebook that some combination of essential oils could help cure your cold this season, my BF sent her message stating that it was dangerous to make unsubstantiated medical claims because it could cost the health of an innocent child if an easily influenced mother used essential oils to treat her child instead of seeing a doctor, for example. Lets just say the relationship has sort of deteriorated since then. The neighbour claims that my BF is doing this on purpose to be an asshole, but he just can't justify encouraging someone who goes so against every scientific fibre of his very being. I've never been close to her for the same reason. It's unfortunate since we cross paths almost daily, but meh, what are ya gonna do.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: marcela on March 21, 2017, 07:34:51 AM
I did the Mary Kay thing for a little bit when I was working part-time. I liked their skin care stuff and the cost to become a "consultant" was not much more than I would have paid for the skincare stuff. It came with all the stuff I would have bought anyway and an enormous amount of samples. I'm still using some of the stuff years later. I figured I would just break even and was shocked that I ended up making a little money when a friend moved away and all of her clients came to me. I never drank the cool-aid though. No parties or downlines.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: cats on March 21, 2017, 07:46:10 AM
I don't have too much exposure to MLMs but have had a few people try to recruit me.  The recruitment method is SO scammy!  Most of the time, they won't say upfront what the product/business is.  One woman I went to school with, haven't seen in person in 10+ years, but we are friends on FB.  She messages me about how she has a "business opportunity".  She had been constantly talking up on FB various diet supplements she was taking to lose weight, but never actually disclosing the name of the supplements or the company, just "message me to find out more!".  Because I wasn't initially 100% sure this was an MLM thing (this was maybe 7 years ago, before everyone and their mother really seemed to be pushing MLMs all over FB), I messaged back and asked for more info.  I got a fairly vague response--no company name, no type of business, nothing.  Eventually I just told her I was too busy and fortunately haven't heard anything since.  She still posts about the various things she takes on FB and STILL never explicitly posts the name of the company.  After googling one of the product names in a picture she posted, I figured she is probably shilling for Amway.  But it's SO weird that she never just says "I use these great Amway products"!  I know another woman who sells Beachbody and it is the same thing.  She never explicitly mentions Shakeology (just "amazing superfoods shake") or workouts specific to Beachbody, but that's what she's selling.  Is this something MLMs specifically encourage?  It seems so shady to me.  If I am trying to recruit a friend to work at my company, I can tell them the name, the type of business, what the day to day nature of the job might be (or someone they can talk to to find out more), etc.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 21, 2017, 07:59:29 AM
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.

I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."

Holy crap! $10k?  It was $4k last year. 

Although I've heard they are onboarding so many new consultants they can't even get them stock. They just take their money.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on March 21, 2017, 08:26:50 AM
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.

I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."

Holy crap! $10k?  It was $4k last year. 

Although I've heard they are onboarding so many new consultants they can't even get them stock. They just take their money.

For just the $4k a family could put someone through an entire associate's degree including books, lab fees, and plus licensing fees. Then they'd have a RN or a radiology tech. Or, they could put two people through an income producing credential like a Class A CDL.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 21, 2017, 08:48:23 AM
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.

I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."

Holy crap! $10k?  It was $4k last year. 

Although I've heard they are onboarding so many new consultants they can't even get them stock. They just take their money.

For just the $4k a family could put someone through an entire associate's degree including books, lab fees, and plus licensing fees. Then they'd have a RN or a radiology tech. Or, they could put two people through an income producing credential like a Class A CDL.

But then they would have to work for someone else and wouldn't "own their own business" and be a #girlboss

I absolutely hate the "own their own business" line with MLM.  Can you make major product and marketing decisions? No- you don't own the business.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on March 21, 2017, 09:10:42 AM
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.

I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."

Holy crap! $10k?  It was $4k last year. 

Although I've heard they are onboarding so many new consultants they can't even get them stock. They just take their money.

For just the $4k a family could put someone through an entire associate's degree including books, lab fees, and plus licensing fees. Then they'd have a RN or a radiology tech. Or, they could put two people through an income producing credential like a Class A CDL.

But then they would have to work for someone else and wouldn't "own their own business" and be a #girlboss

I absolutely hate the "own their own business" line with MLM.  Can you make major product and marketing decisions? No- you don't own the business.

For $10K you can lease a perfectly acceptable car and drive full-time for a company like Uber or Lftye. Or you can work for Instacart. Sure, they aren't glamorous, but if the goal is be your own boss, you are with companies such as that.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: solon on March 21, 2017, 09:28:15 AM
For $10K you can lease a perfectly acceptable car and drive full-time for a company like Uber or Lftye. Or you can work for Instacart. Sure, they aren't glamorous, but if the goal is be your own boss, you are with companies such as that.

Left eye?
Left tie?
Lift ye?

:)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frooglepoodle on March 21, 2017, 09:39:36 AM
I have a friend who started selling LuLaRoe in order to be able to stay home with her kids. It seems like she's doing pretty well with it, but she's mentioned it can take ages to get new inventory orders.

I may be way off base, but it seems like the $6-10k that consultants pay to buy in and a little leg work, they could order similar items wholesale and ACTUALLY GET TO PICK THE SPECIFIC MERCHANDISE. Use the same Facebook sales model or sell on eBay or Amazon.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: FireHiker on March 21, 2017, 09:40:28 AM
My cousin is one of these MLM suckers and it drives me nuts on facebook, though now that she's had her third kid she doesn't seem to go on about it as much. She was big into Plexus for quite awhile; I enjoyed watching her brother give her crap about it all the time. Now it's Lularoe. She hasn't finished college and has three young kids (all under 5) and is all-in on the "my own business from home" line, and it's pretty exasperating. I hate how the MLM companies take advantage of people like that who don't necessarily have the critical thinking skills to see through it...

Fortunately my neighborhood is mostly engineers and executives (it comes with the whole host of "keeping up with Joneses" with the kids, so it has its own problems), and very few MLM folks seem to make inroads. I've been to a wine party at my next door neighbor's house and a 31 party across the street, but both were only throwing the party as a favor to a friend and there was truly zero pressure to buy anything, and people I'd have hung out with anyway. My old neighborhood was full of MLMs and I don't miss that at all!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: NorthernDreamer on March 21, 2017, 09:42:42 AM
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.

I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."

LuLaRoe is breaking wide open lately. Leggings falling apart, the Morman sisterhood shunning consultants who say anything remotely negative or question the LLR gospel, illegal tax charging in the US, stock issues, fugly patterns.... I do have two pairs of their leggings and one shirt from before the quality went downhill. The idea of actually becoming a consultant and forking over $10k is insane. Now there are spin-off companies started by other people from the main family - Honey & Lace and Agnes & Dora. This is how these pyramid schemers get away with it, they set up fall-back plans and jump ship once sh*t really hits the fan. There are going to be so many LLR consultants in debt once the dust settles. I feel so bad for them all, but really, no one forced them to sign up. Sure people made false promises that preyed on their hopes. But our society needs to develop critical thinking skills and not poor-me all over life.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 21, 2017, 09:44:09 AM
Wine parties were pretty popular in my neighborhood for awhile.  The wine was ridiculously overpriced.  $25 was the low end bottle, and really no different from a $6 yellow tail.

The cost to host the party was a bit high, as you had to buy all the food- but the wine for the actual party was a good deal something like $50 for 6 bottles?  So we hosted one just as a way to have people over. It was fun. 

But I'm glad that trend is over, because now DH is back to buying in the $15 range, not the $40 range!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 21, 2017, 09:45:49 AM
In defense of LLR- their TC make amazing maternity leggings for me- the waist band is really comfortable.  But so do VIV collective on Amazon for half the price, though the waist band isn't as nice.  And the amazon ones are holding up better to washing. (I've been rotating 5 pairs of leggings for 2 months now, no real pants. LLR is not going to last much longer.)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: FireHiker on March 21, 2017, 09:47:16 AM
Wine parties were pretty popular in my neighborhood for awhile.  The wine was ridiculously overpriced.  $25 was the low end bottle, and really no different from a $6 yellow tail.

The cost to host the party was a bit high, as you had to buy all the food- but the wine for the actual party was a good deal something like $50 for 6 bottles?  So we hosted one just as a way to have people over. It was fun. 

But I'm glad that trend is over, because now DH is back to buying in the $15 range, not the $40 range!

Yeah, I enjoyed the one wine party I went to since it was zero pressure and an excuse to have a get-together next door, but I like my $5.99 Riesling from Costco better!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on March 21, 2017, 09:51:50 AM
I don't have too much exposure to MLMs but have had a few people try to recruit me.  The recruitment method is SO scammy!  Most of the time, they won't say upfront what the product/business is.  One woman I went to school with, haven't seen in person in 10+ years, but we are friends on FB.  She messages me about how she has a "business opportunity".  She had been constantly talking up on FB various diet supplements she was taking to lose weight, but never actually disclosing the name of the supplements or the company, just "message me to find out more!".  Because I wasn't initially 100% sure this was an MLM thing (this was maybe 7 years ago, before everyone and their mother really seemed to be pushing MLMs all over FB), I messaged back and asked for more info.  I got a fairly vague response--no company name, no type of business, nothing.  Eventually I just told her I was too busy and fortunately haven't heard anything since.  She still posts about the various things she takes on FB and STILL never explicitly posts the name of the company.  After googling one of the product names in a picture she posted, I figured she is probably shilling for Amway.  But it's SO weird that she never just says "I use these great Amway products"!  I know another woman who sells Beachbody and it is the same thing.  She never explicitly mentions Shakeology (just "amazing superfoods shake") or workouts specific to Beachbody, but that's what she's selling.  Is this something MLMs specifically encourage?  It seems so shady to me.  If I am trying to recruit a friend to work at my company, I can tell them the name, the type of business, what the day to day nature of the job might be (or someone they can talk to to find out more), etc.
Beachbody coaches I know are pretty open about the products and what they are.  But there's definitely a "script".  Or many scripts.

The MLMs are fascinating.  I have friends who have rotated through them, trying to find the "magic one", I guess.

I know someone who has bounced around in real estate, business ownership, BB coach... she and her husband own a business (3 locations).  She's a BB coach but recently started working as a personal trainer again.  And now she's starting some sort of wine MLM/ online business thing.

The wine thing sort of aligns with their brick and mortar business...but she was showcasing a wine from Argentina.

Now. I've got nothing against Argentina. But we live in fucking Santa Barbara.  We have nearly unlimited options in local, good quality wine.  And if your budget leans more towards cheaper wine, then we have *3* Trader Joe's.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: NoStacheOhio on March 21, 2017, 10:07:47 AM
Wine parties were pretty popular in my neighborhood for awhile.  The wine was ridiculously overpriced.  $25 was the low end bottle, and really no different from a $6 yellow tail.

The cost to host the party was a bit high, as you had to buy all the food- but the wine for the actual party was a good deal something like $50 for 6 bottles?  So we hosted one just as a way to have people over. It was fun. 

But I'm glad that trend is over, because now DH is back to buying in the $15 range, not the $40 range!

I'm so grateful my local grocery store has a kick-ass $10 selection. I bought one $25 bottle (Frog's Leap, worth it) as a gift at Christmas, but other than that I couldn't tell you the last time I spent more than $10 plus tax.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on March 21, 2017, 10:27:38 AM
But then they would have to work for someone else and wouldn't "own their own business" and be a #girlboss

I absolutely hate the "own their own business" line with MLM.  Can you make major product and marketing decisions? No- you don't own the business.

Indeed. Also, most people shouldn't be entrepreneurs or self-employed.

A person can also be a #boyboss or #girlboss or #infantboss (is it me or do the same people who like MLMs enjoy describing themselves in infantile terms?) while doing freelance writing or photography, or while operating a dog-walking service. It doesn't require massive up-front costs.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ToTheMoon on March 21, 2017, 10:58:55 AM
[quote author=TheGrimSqueaker link=topic=70285.msg1483731#msg1483731
Indeed. Also, most people shouldn't be entrepreneurs or self-employed.

A person can also be a #boyboss or #girlboss or #infantboss (is it me or do the same people who like MLMs enjoy describing themselves in infantile terms?) while doing freelance writing or photography, or while operating a dog-walking service. It doesn't require massive up-front costs.
[/quote]

I have an extended family member who sells Rodan & Fields - they refer to themselves as MoMtrepreneurs.  Barf.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on March 21, 2017, 11:31:22 AM
I have a ton of school-mates on FB who cover the spectrum of every single MLM mentioned here, and probably a few more that aren't listed.  It's incredible.  I do see that it's exclusively the stay at home mom set that attempts these strategies, and it makes be sad to see soo many of them fall victim to these scams.  In many cases, these people are struggling, and they make those struggles public on their page all the time.  I noticed one who just yesterday posted a reminder of her LuLaRoe party coming up today, and seeing what y'all have written about the startup costs, I can only imagine that there is some sort of financing that makes even more money to the company, and puts these people who can least afford it in even more debt.  This particular mom often complains about the lack of heat and various other problems in her apartment, does the side hustle on occasion of being a blackjack dealer at private parties at very off hours, and has two children with some medical issues that her hubby's insurance doesn't do a great job of covering the cost.  Yup, a whole lot of "poor me" in those posts, and now an MLM?  Scary and Sad.

I have a neighbor who is all about Plexus and "Think Pink".  She often tells these stories of how much weight she's lost (looks the same to me), and how her OB/GYN was thrilled to learn that she's drinking Plexus while pregnant!  Yeah, I highly doubt that.  Finances have always been tight in the 2 years that she's moved to our reasonably priced neighborhood, but I'm guessing that someone who buys a $200K house and has a $2K mortgage payment probably had no down payment and horrible credit.  Now that baby #2 is on the way, they've listed the house for an inflated amount, and the plan is to go back to renting.

However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file.  She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing!  I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting.  I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on March 21, 2017, 11:36:47 AM
If I have to buy something-i.e. put money in your hand to maintain our relationship, that's not friendship that's prostitution.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 21, 2017, 11:44:32 AM
I have that Plexus graph on my wall at work. I keep a "bad bar graph wall of shame".  WTH is the scale on that thing!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on March 21, 2017, 12:08:07 PM
I have that Plexus graph on my wall at work. I keep a "bad bar graph wall of shame".  WTH is the scale on that thing!

I feel like someone made some boxes in PowerPoint and put it together that way.  Seriously misleading scale.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: RWD on March 21, 2017, 12:09:16 PM
I have that Plexus graph on my wall at work. I keep a "bad bar graph wall of shame".  WTH is the scale on that thing!

Looks like maybe a log scale of some sort. I tried making a bar chart in Excel with the log of each number and it came out pretty close.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MJM on March 21, 2017, 12:36:35 PM
MLM friendship destroyed: My wife's friend was pushing hard to have her both buy her product (face creams etc) and become a rep. She told her how much money she can make yadayada, and she sent her some samples to try out. She started getting more aggressive and my wife finally told her flat out that she wasn't interested. Then the MLM gal got pissy and demanded that my wife return the samples! She wanted the samples that had sat on our bathroom counter back to give to others! I'll bet the stuff was used before us too... My wife said that if she sent her return postage she would drop it off in the mail, but that she wouldn't wait at the post office and pay for postage/box. The MLM gal replied by saying it wasn't worth her time or money to provide postage (but it was fine if we did apparently), she deleted my wife from facebook etc, and probably went on to live a terrible existence alone without any friends.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on March 21, 2017, 01:08:56 PM
If I have to buy something-i.e. put money in your hand to maintain our relationship, that's not friendship that's prostitution.

Or a purely business relationship that isn't actually a friendship. I'm still stealing this line.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BlueHouse on March 21, 2017, 01:15:23 PM
I must be the only person on the forums who's exposed to these but not bothered.  I've been to a few MLM parties in my life and felt no pressure to buy anything.  I have a SIL who sells Mary Kay and another who sold Tupperware; we socialize with no mention of the business.  Occasionally I buy a lipstick.  It's really not a big deal at all.

Maybe it's because both these SILs sell as a side gig to their real jobs. Neither of them preaches the MLM gospel because neither of them believes it herself. I think for them it's mainly a way to get the product for herself at a discount.
The main reason that everyone mentioned for being bothered was the pressure to buy. If you've never been pressured, it would make sense that you aren't bothered by it. I mentioned something similar in my post. The issue is that many of these companies advocate or require preying on friends and family. Which is generally a turn off.

When a family member tells me "it really works" I expect them to tell me the truth.  I was shocked when my sister-in-law told me some face cream "really worked" and then found out she had boxes stacked in her living room that she had to get rid of.  I will never trust anything she says again.  If she had just asked me for money, I would have felt better about the whole thing.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: slugline on March 21, 2017, 01:18:06 PM
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file.  She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing!

If I understand this graph correctly, they are freely admitting that 99.4% of their ambassadors are making less than the USA per capita income.  That doesn't sound like a bragging point to me.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: tarheeldan on March 21, 2017, 01:24:52 PM
I think the percentage below the $400 bar is plenty
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 21, 2017, 01:29:52 PM
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file.  She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing!

If I understand this graph correctly, they are freely admitting that 99.4% of their ambassadors are making less than the USA per capita income.  That doesn't sound like a bragging point to me.
But! Half the bars are taller than the US per capita income! That's got to be good!


Hell, 88% are making less than $500. I could do that in a 4 nights of high demand babysitting!  (Black Friday- day, New Years-night, Valentine's Day-night, College Town Rivalry-day football game- $500 earned easy.)  Seems a lot easier than MLM shilling.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Slee_stack on March 21, 2017, 01:56:43 PM
Thankfully i don't recognize most of these MLMs.  i live a shielded life I guess.

I did know a guy at my last job who pushed Amway.  It was a 1000+ employee site and I understand that he had recruited at least 8 or so co-workers who were pushing the same stuff below him.

He was always bragging on how it was just a matter of time before he'd be leaving work in a limousine and kicking back on easy street for the rest of his life.

Well we got hit with a first layoff, and then rounds of layoffs afterwards.  His audience began dwindling fast and he became desperate to prove that the Amway was the right way for all his sucker followers.

We must have been down to half the employees when he showed up one day in a tuxedo! and quit.  He also rented a limo to pick him up at the front lobby and hammed it up as he drove away.

It was quite the spectacle.  I couldn't help but laugh and shake my head.  Most people didn't know what the heck was going on.

Within the year he was back on Linked-In scrounging for jobs.  Apparently, Amway wasn't the gravy train he promised us all it would be.  Bummer about the limo/tuxedo rental costs though.  Just weird and embarrassing all-around.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on March 21, 2017, 01:58:25 PM
FTFY: the Plexus graphs, scaled.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: NorthernDreamer on March 21, 2017, 02:10:17 PM
FTFY: the Plexus graphs, scaled.

Amazing.

I think people get drawn into the concept of "passive income". When in reality, for most people who do MLMs, they never see that level of it.

The mom I know who sells Usborne books seems to be at quite a high level. Goes to international conferences and all that jazz. And seems more interested in recruiting now than selling books. Once I ask how much commission reps make on the books, and it's usually about 20%. And most books are under $16. Umm, doesn't seem like a great return. No wonder you need to get a team under you.

I should add that I am all for working for yourself - I have a side hustle Etsy shop, and it's great. I made over $12,000 last year profit. And am proud I did it without scamming anyone or shilling crap.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on March 21, 2017, 02:44:03 PM
I love all of you!  Now if only we can submit those real charts and the John Oliver video to all those duped into MLM, maybe then they will get it!  On second hand, no, logic and numbers will not sway some people.  But I still love all y'all for seeing that Plexus chart for what it is, a load of crap!  If you lived near Austin, TX, we'd hang out a lot.  :)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on March 21, 2017, 06:31:33 PM
I have a ton of school-mates on FB who cover the spectrum of every single MLM mentioned here, and probably a few more that aren't listed.  It's incredible.  I do see that it's exclusively the stay at home mom set that attempts these strategies, and it makes be sad to see soo many of them fall victim to these scams.  In many cases, these people are struggling, and they make those struggles public on their page all the time.  I noticed one who just yesterday posted a reminder of her LuLaRoe party coming up today, and seeing what y'all have written about the startup costs, I can only imagine that there is some sort of financing that makes even more money to the company, and puts these people who can least afford it in even more debt.  This particular mom often complains about the lack of heat and various other problems in her apartment, does the side hustle on occasion of being a blackjack dealer at private parties at very off hours, and has two children with some medical issues that her hubby's insurance doesn't do a great job of covering the cost.  Yup, a whole lot of "poor me" in those posts, and now an MLM?  Scary and Sad.

I have a neighbor who is all about Plexus and "Think Pink".  She often tells these stories of how much weight she's lost (looks the same to me), and how her OB/GYN was thrilled to learn that she's drinking Plexus while pregnant!  Yeah, I highly doubt that.  Finances have always been tight in the 2 years that she's moved to our reasonably priced neighborhood, but I'm guessing that someone who buys a $200K house and has a $2K mortgage payment probably had no down payment and horrible credit.  Now that baby #2 is on the way, they've listed the house for an inflated amount, and the plan is to go back to renting.

However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file.  She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing!  I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting.  I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...

My brain broke on that one...  88% is the first bar, and then everything else is much lower...   What scale are they showing-- that $28k average income is nearly the same as $119k income, and about 2-3x $446 income?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: AMandM on March 22, 2017, 11:54:45 AM
That Plexus graph is breathtaking. Just breathtaking.

To top it all off, the scale lines aren't even evenly spaced!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Bracken_Joy on March 22, 2017, 12:04:02 PM
I think one of the most frustrating things about MLMs to me is that I feel like they are siphoning away the 'true american entrepreneurial spirit'. Where are the babysitting side hustles, and etsy stores, and doing your OWN drop shipping type companies? MLMs aren’t actually self employment, they’re just scalping away the people who WOULD do stuff like that. And it makes other people more gun shy on starting authentic side hustles, because they don't want to be lumped in with the MLM "dirty hustle" feeling- the high pressure sales pitch crap.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: solon on March 22, 2017, 12:08:47 PM
The Plexus graph has changed a little since it was posted here. Here is the new graph from their website.

See it in the wild here: https://media.plexusworldwide.com/cdn/FINAL-2015-Income-Disclosure-Statement.pdf
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on March 22, 2017, 12:51:56 PM
Ha WOW! From their own website- 90% of the sellers make less than $2,500.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: yachi on March 22, 2017, 01:08:54 PM
The Plexus graph has changed a little since it was posted here. Here is the new graph from their website.

See it in the wild here: https://media.plexusworldwide.com/cdn/FINAL-2015-Income-Disclosure-Statement.pdf

Following your 'in the wild' link: it's even worse than this graph shows...  There is a level of 'Associate' that is below even $446 in annual income.  The associate already paid an annual fee, but did not yet set up an automatic order for monthly product (required to become an 'ambassador').
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: marcela on March 22, 2017, 01:32:38 PM
The Plexus graph has changed a little since it was posted here. Here is the new graph from their website.

See it in the wild here: https://media.plexusworldwide.com/cdn/FINAL-2015-Income-Disclosure-Statement.pdf

Following your 'in the wild' link: it's even worse than this graph shows...  There is a level of 'Associate' that is below even $446 in annual income.  The associate already paid an annual fee, but did not yet set up an automatic order for monthly product (required to become an 'ambassador').

It gets worse..
"The average annual commission made by Plexus Ambassadors (Ambassador–Diamond ranks) in 2015 was $1,885.99, and the median annual commission made by Plexus
Ambassadors (Ambassador–Diamond ranks) in 2015 was $213.23. "
50% of those who have set up an auto order made less than $250/yr
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Proud Foot on March 22, 2017, 01:41:59 PM
The Emerald, Sapphire, and Diamond levels make good money though! I wonder how many are in those groups who did not become an Ambassador within the first 2-3 years of the start of the company or were among the first Ambassadors in their area?  I bet they don't want you to know that!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on March 22, 2017, 04:43:10 PM
The Emerald, Sapphire, and Diamond levels make good money though! I wonder how many are in those groups who did not become an Ambassador within the first 2-3 years of the start of the company or were among the first Ambassadors in their area?  I bet they don't want you to know that!

If my math is right, for every $1 Million in income paid out, total, there are fewer than 20 persons making over $30k per year, and 2300 reps with auto orders making $5000 or per year (most at $200 to $400 per year).   

There are 2 customers for ever rep, on average, too.  But I bet the reps with auto orders are the lion's share of the purchasers.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ohsnap on March 22, 2017, 04:53:10 PM
...

Does anyone know if Avon is an MLM?  I don't think it is.

The Wall Street Journal has an interesting article about Avon in today's edition. https://www.wsj.com/articles/avon-ladies-backed-by-private-equity-aim-to-reconquer-middle-america-1490107605

They compare it to direct sellers such as Herbalife, but I'm with pachnik - I don't think building a downline is their focus.  I've met a lot of "Avon ladies" over the years, and none have ever tried to recruit me.  They actually seemed territorial, like they didn't want any competition in the neighborhood! 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frooglepoodle on March 22, 2017, 06:08:25 PM
Because I find MLM morbidly fascinating and my kiddo took an extra long nap today, I fell down a rabbit hole of LuLaRoe horror stories on Google today and found this:

http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/03/16/LuLaBullies-and-Consultant-Cannibalism

The blogger has several other posts with her and others' experiences that make me concerned for my friend who sells the stuff. I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on March 22, 2017, 07:12:23 PM
I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/

Being your own best customer is certainly not unheard of in these things.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Villanelle on March 22, 2017, 10:45:08 PM
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.

I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."

LuLaRoe is breaking wide open lately. Leggings falling apart, the Morman sisterhood shunning consultants who say anything remotely negative or question the LLR gospel, illegal tax charging in the US, stock issues, fugly patterns.... I do have two pairs of their leggings and one shirt from before the quality went downhill. The idea of actually becoming a consultant and forking over $10k is insane. Now there are spin-off companies started by other people from the main family - Honey & Lace and Agnes & Dora. This is how these pyramid schemers get away with it, they set up fall-back plans and jump ship once sh*t really hits the fan. There are going to be so many LLR consultants in debt once the dust settles. I feel so bad for them all, but really, no one forced them to sign up. Sure people made false promises that preyed on their hopes. But our society needs to develop critical thinking skills and not poor-me all over life.

I have few pairs of LLR leggings, and I admit to loving them.  I refused to even consider buying another pair when they started charging me income tax.  I am on on overseas military base, and I don't pay sales tax via an online retailers, because there is no state sales tax since I'm not in a state. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: NorthernDreamer on March 23, 2017, 12:36:16 PM
Because I find MLM morbidly fascinating and my kiddo took an extra long nap today, I fell down a rabbit hole of LuLaRoe horror stories on Google today and found this:

http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/03/16/LuLaBullies-and-Consultant-Cannibalism

The blogger has several other posts with her and others' experiences that make me concerned for my friend who sells the stuff. I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/

Well, your friend could join the 355 on Go Fund Me asking for money to help fund their LuLaRoe consultant business: https://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=category&term=lularoe

I just... there are no words.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: solon on March 23, 2017, 01:12:21 PM
Because I find MLM morbidly fascinating and my kiddo took an extra long nap today, I fell down a rabbit hole of LuLaRoe horror stories on Google today and found this:

http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/03/16/LuLaBullies-and-Consultant-Cannibalism

The blogger has several other posts with her and others' experiences that make me concerned for my friend who sells the stuff. I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/

Well, your friend could join the 355 on Go Fund Me asking for money to help fund their LuLaRoe consultant business: https://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=category&term=lularoe

I just... there are no words.

I clicked your link, thinking I'd like to see what kind of a moron person would start a Go Fund Me to give to LuLaRoe. THERE ARE 357 MORONS PEOPLE LIKE THIS!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Prairie Stash on March 23, 2017, 04:41:55 PM
Our neighbour, who my BF was friends with, started selling essential oils in the past few months. When she started posting on Facebook that some combination of essential oils could help cure your cold this season, my BF sent her message stating that it was dangerous to make unsubstantiated medical claims because it could cost the health of an innocent child if an easily influenced mother used essential oils to treat her child instead of seeing a doctor, for example. Lets just say the relationship has sort of deteriorated since then. The neighbour claims that my BF is doing this on purpose to be an asshole, but he just can't justify encouraging someone who goes so against every scientific fibre of his very being. I've never been close to her for the same reason. It's unfortunate since we cross paths almost daily, but meh, what are ya gonna do.
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3947694

Is this why your BF gets angry? Treating children with herbal supplements will land you in jail. It was pretty major news in Canada, the preventable death of a 2 year old child who needed antibiotics instead of supplements.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TravelJunkyQC on March 24, 2017, 08:19:10 AM
Our neighbour, who my BF was friends with, started selling essential oils in the past few months. When she started posting on Facebook that some combination of essential oils could help cure your cold this season, my BF sent her message stating that it was dangerous to make unsubstantiated medical claims because it could cost the health of an innocent child if an easily influenced mother used essential oils to treat her child instead of seeing a doctor, for example. Lets just say the relationship has sort of deteriorated since then. The neighbour claims that my BF is doing this on purpose to be an asshole, but he just can't justify encouraging someone who goes so against every scientific fibre of his very being. I've never been close to her for the same reason. It's unfortunate since we cross paths almost daily, but meh, what are ya gonna do.
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3947694

Is this why your BF gets angry? Treating children with herbal supplements will land you in jail. It was pretty major news in Canada, the preventable death of a 2 year old child who needed antibiotics instead of supplements.

Horrible parents and their stupid beliefs in holistic healings. Yes, there are plenty of natural remedies for simple aches, pains and symptoms but why would anyone gamble with their kid's life?

Sorry but not one of them deserves to live wile their kids suffer due to their stupidity.
Yes, this is exactly why we both get angry. Because what an idiotic adult does with his/her own body is up to him/her. But as soon as a person's choices effect someone who cannot defend themselves, THAT'S when I take issue with it. And encouraging these things by selling woofuckery and essential oils is ethically reprehensible. Our neighbour lost our respect when she started doing this.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Cpa Cat on March 24, 2017, 02:34:54 PM
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:

Quote
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways

I can't even.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on March 24, 2017, 02:49:58 PM
My brother got hooked into an MLM and tried to recruit me a few weeks ago. I feel powerless as I don't know what I can do to get him out of there.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on March 24, 2017, 05:06:34 PM
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:

Quote
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways

I can't even.

Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frooglepoodle on March 24, 2017, 05:16:18 PM
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:

Quote
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways

I can't even.

Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?

That's how I read it too... and the hashtags are painful.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: swick on March 24, 2017, 05:18:50 PM
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:

Quote
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways

I can't even.

Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?

That's how I read it too... and the hashtags are painful.

Ohhh I don't know....#faithtrustpixiedust might be the best thing I have read on the internet today.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on March 24, 2017, 05:23:25 PM
Quickly reading the hashtags... this is what I thought one said:

#icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp
I can't wait i'm addicted and sex is exciting....
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: tomsang on March 24, 2017, 06:05:39 PM
The Plexus graph has changed a little since it was posted here. Here is the new graph from their website.

See it in the wild here: https://media.plexusworldwide.com/cdn/FINAL-2015-Income-Disclosure-Statement.pdf

As an accountant, I always think it is amusing when they quote income vs. net income.  I believe that they are talking about revenue vs. profits.  One of my partners showed up to a MLM event where the main guy was talking about how he made over a million last year.  He did the guys taxes and went back and checked his taxable income was around a $100k and he was the main guy for Washington State.  So lots of exaggerations and use of income when most people think of that as how much you made vs. revenue before product costs, business expenses, etc.

On a side note, my wife would go to a number of these MLM scams each year with her girlfriends.  She claimed it was about the socializing.  I said, "Why don't you just have a dinner party and enjoy your friends"  She has been doing more of the dinner party events and her other girlfriends have been having more at home socializing. I was also pushing a party where everyone brings their favorite bottle of wine and talks about it.  Then you do a Secret Santa type thing where people get to pick, steal, and bring home a bottle of wine that they have not tried.  I figured it would be like a MLM where you are excited to bring something home.  The fact that you brought a bottle is the same as if you brought your wallet and bought some overpriced MLM item.       
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Cpa Cat on March 24, 2017, 06:06:59 PM
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:

Quote
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways

I can't even.

Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?

I think she meant she was going to increase demand by buying stuff from her own MLM. But the fallacy of either interpretation made me want to smash my head into the glass covering my Economics degree diploma. I feel like I died a little bit when I read it.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Mezzie on March 25, 2017, 03:29:14 AM
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:

Quote
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways

I can't even.

Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?

I think she meant she was going to increase demand by buying stuff from her own MLM. But the fallacy of either interpretation made me want to smash my head into the glass covering my Economics degree diploma. I feel like I died a little bit when I read it.

I only studied economics in high school, but I find it pretty painful as well. Maybe I should show the John Oliver MLM clip during my comedy unit this year. If only he didn't cuss so much... I'll have to keep my hand on the volume control the entire time.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: RWD on March 25, 2017, 08:17:18 AM
I only studied economics in high school, but I find it pretty painful as well. Maybe I should show the John Oliver MLM clip during my comedy unit this year. If only he didn't cuss so much... I'll have to keep my hand on the volume control the entire time.

Maybe make your own edited version? There's a lot of free video editing software, wouldn't be hard to bleep out some cuss words.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: lchu on March 25, 2017, 08:49:59 AM
I had a former coworker that I hadn't heard from in 5-6 years send a text to ask if I wanted to host a Pure Romance (women's sex toys) party.  Talk about an MLM that's a hard sell...

Anyway, this text was so ultra generic (one of the pre-made picture ads, no inclusion of my name or the seller's name, nothing to indicate how I should have known who the seller was), I thought it was a marketing spam text and replied "unsubscribe".  Hadn't heard from this woman in so long, I didn't have her number saved and didn't recognize it.  Unfortunately, instead of a laugh and a "thanks-but-no-thanks-and-good-luck" exchange, I got treated to a mini-lecture about how sending "unsubscribe" back was being rude to a friend that sent me a personal birthday message and while it was okay to not be interested, it wasn't okay to belittle someone who is just trying to grow her business.  It was really jarring -- the only time I've heard from you is when you want to sell me something I'm not interested in buying, and you're somehow offended during this exchange?  Really?!

Easy end to the story -- I blocked her number and parted ways with her on social media.  Even so, I still stayed irrationally angry about the whole situation for days afterwards.

The issue is that many of these companies advocate or require preying on friends and family. Which is generally a turn off.

This, right here.

There's an emotional piece that makes the MLM sales strategies work -- you're more willing to let a friend or family member make the sales pitch (which is half the battle of making the sale) because it's someone you know and trust.  Then, at the end of the pitch, the moderate-to-high pressure tactics are more effective because you're reluctant to sour a family, work, or friend relationship with someone you might continue to see for decades.  If you're geared to avoid emotional conflict or social anxiety, chances are high you'll buy to avoid having to say no to this person.

But I also think that's what makes it feel so violating.  I feel like anybody who knows me well should know how I feel about MLM companies and should have a pretty good idea that I'm not buying.  So, when I get approached by someone I feel should know that about me, I feel like the MLM company turned someone I trusted into an undercover enemy.  Even though I'm still going to say no, I don't view our friendship the same way any more, and that sucks.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on March 25, 2017, 01:38:32 PM
Quote
was being rude to a friend that sent me a personal birthday message and while it was okay to not be interested, it wasn't okay to belittle someone who is just trying to grow her business.

If you have to shamelessly send unsolicited advertisements to your friends to "grow your business" - it won't.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LadyStache in Baja on March 25, 2017, 10:11:16 PM
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:

Quote
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways

I can't even.

Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?

I think she meant she was going to increase demand by buying stuff from her own MLM. But the fallacy of either interpretation made me want to smash my head into the glass covering my Economics degree diploma. I feel like I died a little bit when I read it.

I only studied economics in high school, but I find it pretty painful as well. Maybe I should show the John Oliver MLM clip during my comedy unit this year. If only he didn't cuss so much... I'll have to keep my hand on the volume control the entire time.

Surely they meant you work harder to increase the demand?!  Right? By getting out there and selling?  Right?!

This thread has been so fun.  I HATE the #girlboss thing, the "entrepreneur" thing, calling themselves "CEOs".  REALLY?  You're a CEO?  In a company of 1?

Especially as a person who actually has built a (tiny) business... ugh!  How are these people this stupid.

I actually follow a beachbody coach and a few of her uplines on fb for much the same reason I read this thread.  Because it's so embarrassingly entertaining. 

I looked at the lularoe gofundme page and clicked on a sad mom who is a nurse (?!?!?) and her son has autism so she needs money to start her own lularoe business?!  Omg this poor woman.  I just can't even.  Don't nurses make good money?  Can't she pick up extra shifts?  So sad, just so sad that these people think shelling out $8000 is going to save them.  How is anyone going to sell $8000 in leggings?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Ramblin' Ma'am on March 29, 2017, 09:27:20 AM
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.

The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Just Joe on March 30, 2017, 08:55:14 AM
I can't believe these MLMs are even a thing in 2017. You'd think the collective conscious would know better by now.

I suppose we can look around at other topics and see that a portion of each generation always falls for the same lies and promises. That portion never pops the hood to see what makes a business like this "go".   
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MillieLincoln on March 30, 2017, 10:56:27 AM
Man, I used to be an intern for a local artist in my hometown over summers. He had some financial struggles, but he was quite popular within his community, and his work over the time I was helping him was about struggles in fatherhood.

I followed him on instagram, went back off to college, and over the course of my Junior year he kept posting more and more about some MLM he was involved in- some sort of supplement. He was REALLY, GENUINELY excited about it, and because he had a big network of people following him he was actually doing super well with it. Talking about being able to fix his car, stuff like that- and it was so sad to watch because he seemed to believe it was this cure-all to financial woes and wanted to share it with everybody. I think that's part of what's so terrible about it- at some level of influence/visibility it really can work, and then all these people who admire and trust that person get screwed, without that person even meaning to take advantage.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on March 30, 2017, 12:39:46 PM
I can't believe these MLMs are even a thing in 2017. You'd think the collective conscious would know better by now.

I suppose we can look around at other topics and see that a portion of each generation always falls for the same lies and promises. That portion never pops the hood to see what makes a business like this "go".

The Ponzi scheme was invented almost a century ago, but it still takes people in despite there being systems in place to stop it.  Enough people in each generation strive for a "get rich quick" scheme so the demand doesn't have much effect on the supply.  What amazes me in the Google generation where too many people "do their research" with a few keystrokes on political, environmental, and health issues can't apply that towards looking up the name of the company peddling some idea to them before jumping on board.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on March 30, 2017, 12:53:52 PM
The Ponzi scheme was invented almost a century ago, but it still takes people in despite there being systems in place to stop it.  Enough people in each generation strive for a "get rich quick" scheme so the demand doesn't have much affect on the supply.  What amazes me in the Google generation where too many people "do their research" with a few keystrokes on political, environmental, and health issues can't apply that towards looking up the name of the company peddling some idea to them before jumping on board.

It's not that easy. Try to type any of these MLM's names followed by "scam" in a search engine, and you will find that the majority of the first results are disguised ads for the product, from distributors who use SEO to their advantage.
As a result, someone who would use due diligence and search in google would find a vast majority of seemingly independent sites claiming that the company is fine and the products are great. Heck, you even have billionaires nowadays pretending MLM is a perfectly valid business, not to mention celebrities paid to endorse the thing.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Ramblin' Ma'am on March 30, 2017, 01:54:00 PM
I can't believe these MLMs are even a thing in 2017. You'd think the collective conscious would know better by now.

I suppose we can look around at other topics and see that a portion of each generation always falls for the same lies and promises. That portion never pops the hood to see what makes a business like this "go".

You'd think people would know better than to fall for phishing scams, too, but that's still a huge problem!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on March 30, 2017, 01:55:10 PM
The Ponzi scheme was invented almost a century ago, but it still takes people in despite there being systems in place to stop it.  Enough people in each generation strive for a "get rich quick" scheme so the demand doesn't have much affect on the supply.  What amazes me in the Google generation where too many people "do their research" with a few keystrokes on political, environmental, and health issues can't apply that towards looking up the name of the company peddling some idea to them before jumping on board.

It's not that easy. Try to type any of these MLM's names followed by "scam" in a search engine, and you will find that the majority of the first results are disguised ads for the product, from distributors who use SEO to their advantage.
As a result, someone who would use due diligence and search in google would find a vast majority of seemingly independent sites claiming that the company is fine and the products are great. Heck, you even have billionaires nowadays pretending MLM is a perfectly valid business, not to mention celebrities paid to endorse the thing.

I've never experienced that. I usually type in "review" and come up with BBB and Consumer Reports-type sites.  As for your last comment, maybe its my aversion to television, but just because someone is famous doesn't make me love a product more. I expect plenty of other folks put their trust in famous people.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Jouer on March 31, 2017, 08:26:50 AM
You are all my spirit animals. Come for the MLM shaming....stay for the shitty graphs!

A few of my friends use Facebook to sell their MLM crap. It sure makes for a boring timeline. Especially bad when they use posts/words/phrases clearly taken from the handbook. I guess I wish for my friends to be smarter. And the hashtags, oh the hashtags. Some hijack even birthday parties by bringing samples and talking-up their products. It's obnoxious.

But I have one friend who does Beachbody that I actually respect. She created a separate Facebook account - like a business page - for her "business". She uses that account for all posts related to Beachbody. Her personal account is still about her kids, her soccer, etc. Very rarely she'll promote her business page from her personal account. And when she does, that doesn't bug me because I just see that as good business. I think having a separate business page is the key to my respect.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on March 31, 2017, 01:09:13 PM
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.

The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?

I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on March 31, 2017, 01:12:29 PM
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.

The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.

Jinga you're forgetting an essential fact. All of these MMM are started by white people, if brown people like us jump into the marketplace then the government will show up and actually pass restrictions.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?

I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Proud Foot on March 31, 2017, 02:34:46 PM
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.

The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?

I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.

I don't know FDA labeling guidelines, but was anyone you asked able to tell you what was in the products? Pretty easy to find on their website so there's no reason why the person trying to sell it couldn't easily tell you what is in it.

Here is the one for their  Greens Blend.  (https://static.myitworks.com/productsheets/303/303-productinfo-en.pdf)

And Holy Shit!! I had never heard of It Works before it was mentioned and some of this stuff seems absolutely ridiculous! Just reading the guide for  this (http://static.myitworks.com/themes/rws-v3/system3/assets/pdf/IWSystems-Guide-us-en.pdf) makes me want to tell everyone not to use it.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on April 03, 2017, 07:33:08 AM
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.

The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?

I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.

I don't know FDA labeling guidelines, but was anyone you asked able to tell you what was in the products? Pretty easy to find on their website so there's no reason why the person trying to sell it couldn't easily tell you what is in it.

Here is the one for their  Greens Blend.  (https://static.myitworks.com/productsheets/303/303-productinfo-en.pdf)

And Holy Shit!! I had never heard of It Works before it was mentioned and some of this stuff seems absolutely ridiculous! Just reading the guide for  this (http://static.myitworks.com/themes/rws-v3/system3/assets/pdf/IWSystems-Guide-us-en.pdf) makes me want to tell everyone not to use it.
Hahahahaha, NO. They told me it was gluten-free, soy-free, vegan, etc. in different flavors, just like in that data sheet. Peddlers should know their product inside out. Bring your A-game to my BS-detect-radar. Let's play some mental rugby and make this fun. What's a sale without some competitive verbal jousting and haggling? Ain't no fun in the boring shit!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Sydneystache on April 03, 2017, 09:12:12 AM
I still have a lot of friends and relatives back on Hillbilly Mountain and a lot of them are involved in these pyramid schemes -- and that's what MLM is, so let's call a spade a spade. Pyramid schemes prey on very desperate people. The last thing someone living in a trailer on welfare needs is to end up being fooled by snakeoil salesmen into buying hundreds of dollars of a product they will never be able to sell. And that's how these pyramid schemes always end up. I know so many people with a pantry full of self-purchased, overpriced Amway non-perishable food.

Hear, hear. I called out pyramid scheme when a poor, vulnerable friend started mentioning one scheme she was involved in. She is a SAHM with no income as her husband is too cheap (not frugal) to even give her money. She stopped mentioning her MLM after that. One woeful story she told me was one meeting I said I was too busy to attend - nobody attended. Now she's left with hundreds of $s worth of products. She is the type of person MLMs love - desperate and poor.

Another gave me a cleanser sample - which felt nice on my face but I knew it was another MLM and no way I was going to participate in the Ponzi. I just pity people who get sucked in these MLMs...it's just not right.
 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on April 03, 2017, 09:29:08 AM
My personal favorite MLM moment came many years ago when some of my father's relatives came to visit. One, a particularly obnoxious in-law, started in on his MLM spiel and tried to push his packaged, heavily processed "nutrition bars" on us. This was after a great deal of sexist, stupid behavior on his part that made me long to pick up one of my mother's heavy brass lamps and swing it at the side of his head.

Ever the irritating teenager, I picked up one of the bars and started to read the dizzying array of additives and chemicals, while this 60-year-old blathered on about how he had the body of a 29-year-old.

"Which one of the ingredients is the hallucinogen?" I asked.

My parents were too busy trying not to laugh to punish me for being rude to a guest.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: NorthernDreamer on April 03, 2017, 10:38:51 AM
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.

The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?

I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.

I don't know FDA labeling guidelines, but was anyone you asked able to tell you what was in the products? Pretty easy to find on their website so there's no reason why the person trying to sell it couldn't easily tell you what is in it.

Here is the one for their  Greens Blend.  (https://static.myitworks.com/productsheets/303/303-productinfo-en.pdf)

And Holy Shit!! I had never heard of It Works before it was mentioned and some of this stuff seems absolutely ridiculous! Just reading the guide for  this (http://static.myitworks.com/themes/rws-v3/system3/assets/pdf/IWSystems-Guide-us-en.pdf) makes me want to tell everyone not to use it.
Hahahahaha, NO. They told me it was gluten-free, soy-free, vegan, etc. in different flavors, just like in that data sheet. Peddlers should know their product inside out. Bring your A-game to my BS-detect-radar. Let's play some mental rugby and make this fun. What's a sale without some competitive verbal jousting and haggling? Ain't no fun in the boring shit!

But - it's all in the brand name - "IT WORKS"!! What more is there to know? ;P

Where do I sign up for MMMwater, it sounds delicious AND nutritious!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Just Joe on April 03, 2017, 10:42:12 AM
B/c of this thread I'm more aware of the topic lately. There are so many SUVs rolling around town with the logo of one MLM or another on the back window.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: solon on April 03, 2017, 10:54:01 AM
It Works = It's Got What Plants Crave?

You don't need to know what's in it, or how it works... It Works!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sw1tch on April 03, 2017, 11:58:37 AM
It Works = It's Got What Plants Crave?

You don't need to know what's in it, or how it works... It Works!

Electrolytes!!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chris22 on April 03, 2017, 01:07:15 PM
Anyone posted this pic yet in the thread?  It's my stock reply on FB to this crap.


(http://i.imgur.com/VnzEnNX.jpg)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ltt on April 04, 2017, 04:44:43 AM
Because I find MLM morbidly fascinating and my kiddo took an extra long nap today, I fell down a rabbit hole of LuLaRoe horror stories on Google today and found this:

http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/03/16/LuLaBullies-and-Consultant-Cannibalism

The blogger has several other posts with her and others' experiences that make me concerned for my friend who sells the stuff. I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/

Well, your friend could join the 355 on Go Fund Me asking for money to help fund their LuLaRoe consultant business: https://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=category&term=lularoe

I just... there are no words.

I clicked your link, thinking I'd like to see what kind of a moron person would start a Go Fund Me to give to LuLaRoe. THERE ARE 357 MORONS PEOPLE LIKE THIS!

Oh, good grief!  I cannot believe there are people doing these campaigns.  One woman mentioned about donating to her LuLaRoe campaign would be helping get her family financially to a better place.  Ugh.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on April 04, 2017, 06:28:49 AM
I do have a friend who is doing really well with LuLuRoe. (of course I haven't seen her financial statements, but she seems to have a lot of sales and she's even won a cruise with it)
But I keep wondering how many pairs of ugly leggings can people need? Won't this just run it's course like Pampered Chef and Tupperware?

I also had a friend post on facebook a nice "enjoying my day" post with the hashtag "residual income". Barf. She sells Isagenix. Although I don't actually know anyone who has bought anything from her.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on April 04, 2017, 06:53:18 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07aoF6OMF0U
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ltt on April 04, 2017, 07:20:30 AM
I do buy Pampered Chef items occasionally and, overall, like their products.

I've bought Mary Kay before....there is a website called "Pink Truth" which offers up some info.  It makes for some interesting reading.

And, years ago, was approached by a woman at school trying to sell some vitamins and blah, blah, blah, etc.  I had to walk away.

What I do not like is when people from church are involved in selling these items.  I try to buy one item, but that's really all I want--not interested in hosting a party or otherwise.  It's the fastest way to ruin relationships.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on April 04, 2017, 07:30:02 AM
Oh, good grief!  I cannot believe there are people doing these campaigns.  One woman mentioned about donating to her LuLaRoe campaign would be helping get her family financially to a better place.  Ugh.
Yes and if you give me money it would help me get to a financially to a better place. Money does that.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MsSindy on April 04, 2017, 08:14:27 AM
This didn't impact me, but was kind of sad to see my neighbor go through this.  She was a District Manager for a large Pharma company (making really good money), she said she couldn't handle the stress and quit.  Okay, fair enough.  Then she went on a spiritual journey.  She studied alternative nutrition and oils with the hopes of being a consultant ($8k for certificate).  Now, I'm all about alternative healing, and I find the subject fascinating.  She has good selling skills, so I thought she might actually do okay.  But, then she started talking all 'new wavish' and about her 'third eye' and 'enlightenment' and totally lost me.  Conversations got weird.

Then she was hand-dyeing scarfs and trying to sell them.

Then she signed up with a medical recruiting company ($30k buy in for her territory - took out a 2nd mortgage).  She was to call prospects to build her network AND call pharma companies to get them to retain her as a search agent.  So what exactly was the $30k for, the company provided little in the way of leads!  Sad.

All the while, her husband was a General Contractor busting his butt to keep the lifestyle they had when she was making almost $200k.

Eventually they sold the house and moved away.... not sure what happened to them.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: tralfamadorian on April 04, 2017, 08:32:46 AM
...she's even won a cruise with it...

The cruise is for people doing $12k in sales a month for four consecutive months. The wholesale cost of their lauded leggings is $18 and the typical selling price is $40/2 so $20/each.  This is below their advertised retail price of $25/each.  So, on average if they are concentrating on leggings, which appears to be the cornerstone of the brand, they are selling at least 600 pairs of leggings a month with a 10% profit margin, which I believe is typical for clothing retail.  With this $2 margin, that gives a whopping monthly income of $1,200, presuming $0 advertising or other costs. 

Like all MLMs the profit happens when you build your pyramid...err, team:
http://www.lularoe.com/income-disclosure-statement/
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on April 04, 2017, 08:50:30 AM
...she's even won a cruise with it...

The cruise is for people doing $12k in sales a month for four consecutive months. The wholesale cost of their lauded leggings is $18 and the typical selling price is $40/2 so $20/each.  This is below their advertised retail price of $25/each.  So, on average if they are concentrating on leggings, which appears to be the cornerstone of the brand, they are selling at least 600 pairs of leggings a month with a 10% profit margin, which I believe is typical for clothing retail.  With this $2 margin, that gives a whopping monthly income of $1,200, presuming $0 advertising or other costs. 

Like all MLMs the profit happens when you build your pyramid...err, team:
http://www.lularoe.com/income-disclosure-statement/
oh cool.
Based on that link and her posts I bet they are pulling in about $60k. I know that she has posted that she is trainer level working on getting to coach level.
I think she is an example of someone who got in at the exact right time, very early, and was one of the only consultants in her area for awhile.
IMHO the mistake is thinking that this revenue stream will last.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: GhostSaver on April 04, 2017, 09:00:22 AM
I do buy Pampered Chef items occasionally and, overall, like their products.

I've bought Mary Kay before....there is a website called "Pink Truth" which offers up some info.  It makes for some interesting reading.

And, years ago, was approached by a woman at school trying to sell some vitamins and blah, blah, blah, etc.  I had to walk away.

What I do not like is when people from church are involved in selling these items.  I try to buy one item, but that's really all I want--not interested in hosting a party or otherwise.  It's the fastest way to ruin relationships.

One of the things that bums me out about these MLM scams is that they take advantage of this kind of low-grade affinity fraud. It seems huge with the Mormons here in Utah.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on April 04, 2017, 08:22:26 PM

Well, your friend could join the 355 on Go Fund Me asking for money to help fund their LuLaRoe consultant business: https://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=category&term=lularoe

I just... there are no words.
Another case of "I want to follow my dream with your money".
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Sydneystache on April 04, 2017, 08:32:27 PM
I do buy Pampered Chef items occasionally and, overall, like their products.

I've bought Mary Kay before....there is a website called "Pink Truth" which offers up some info.  It makes for some interesting reading.

And, years ago, was approached by a woman at school trying to sell some vitamins and blah, blah, blah, etc.  I had to walk away.

What I do not like is when people from church are involved in selling these items.  I try to buy one item, but that's really all I want--not interested in hosting a party or otherwise.  It's the fastest way to ruin relationships.

One of the things that bums me out about these MLM scams is that they take advantage of this kind of low-grade affinity fraud. It seems huge with the Mormons here in Utah.

Is it a religious traditional thing? My friend (Catholic and subservient to hubby) above is religious. MLMs are great for SAHPs but I wonder if there's an extra element in being religious and being vulnerable to MLMs.

Too bad the Bible doesn't mention anything against Ponzi schemes :-/
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Warlord1986 on April 05, 2017, 07:21:09 AM
The Bible said some stuff about moneylenders in the temple, and it didn't take too kindly to unrepentant thieves and usury.

I can't speak for all religious folks, but my crowd avoids this MLM shit like the plague. My suspicion is that a lot of women (and men) misinterpret the Bible to believe they have to be SAHM. When that causes financial stress and they feel isolated because the only people they talk to are under the age of five, they look for ways to get out of the house. MLM people prey on them and wrap their scheme up in the Bible, which is how we get hashtags talking about how working for lulu blesses other people.

It's not a religious tradition. It's greedy people preying on lonely and poorly instructed religious people.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: infogoon on April 05, 2017, 11:09:44 AM
The Bible said some stuff about moneylenders in the temple, and it didn't take too kindly to unrepentant thieves and usury.

Always remember, when the question is "What Would Jesus Do?", sometimes the answer is "Flip over some tables and kick some ass."
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LadyMuMu on April 05, 2017, 11:16:54 AM
I think religious folks who are in congregations that emphasize small group spirituality, intentionally reaching out to others or evangelization, and forming strong relationship bonds with those in your faith community are particularly attractive and and attracted to MLMs. They already have many of the skills needs: striking conversations with those you don't know well, creating a sense of community rather quickly for a common goal, etc. They also come with their own built in sales field of people they know. Churched folks tend to know many more people outside of work and family than non-churched. You add in a dose of affinity bias in making business decisions and I think it explains why there is so much overlap in MLMs and certain Christian churches. I think it goes much deeper than "they are gullible enough to believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster so they'll fall for anything" assumption.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Raenia on April 05, 2017, 12:36:57 PM
This was many years ago, but I love the story so much I want to share it.  My mom had a few Cutco knives that she'd reluctantly bought from a friend.  Several years later, one of her students had become a Cutco rep and asked if they could "practice" their spiel on us.  Knowing exactly what this was going to be, Mom prepared very carefully: she hid all the low quality knives in the house and kept in the knife block the old Cutco knives (which were of course very disappointing, dulled quickly, etc) along with a few newer knives she'd picked up at BigLots that were probably both the best quality and cheapest knives I've ever worked with.  So the student comes in and goes through the sales pitch, setting up to show off how great the knives are.  Since we already have some, we are happy to dispute the story that the contoured handles are comfortable and easy to use - in reality they restrict you to holding in a particular way and heaven help you if you have larger or smaller hands.  Student blows past this, of course.  One of the demos they do is cutting a piece of rope.  So Mom takes the Cutco knife and cuts the rope - one, two, three strokes.  Student goes all "isn't that amazing, just three strokes to cut through that rope!  Now let's compare it to the knives you have here, so we can see how much better ours are."  Mom takes her cheap BigLots knives - one stroke, straight down to the cutting board.  Left the student speechless.  Especially since you know they sharpen theirs before every visit, and ours hadn't been sharpened since they were bought.

After that, Mom had to go on to her next student and left met to walk them out - and they still tried to sell me on getting her a set of steak knives as a gift, since we "didn't have any" (actually, we did, they were just in hiding for this episode.)  I was flabbergasted.  We'd spent the entire time complaining about how uncomfortable and dull the knives were, and they still thought they could sell me more of them?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: charis on April 05, 2017, 01:45:29 PM
This was many years ago, but I love the story so much I want to share it.  My mom had a few Cutco knives that she'd reluctantly bought from a friend.  Several years later, one of her students had become a Cutco rep and asked if they could "practice" their spiel on us.  Knowing exactly what this was going to be, Mom prepared very carefully: she hid all the low quality knives in the house and kept in the knife block the old Cutco knives (which were of course very disappointing, dulled quickly, etc) along with a few newer knives she'd picked up at BigLots that were probably both the best quality and cheapest knives I've ever worked with.  So the student comes in and goes through the sales pitch, setting up to show off how great the knives are.  Since we already have some, we are happy to dispute the story that the contoured handles are comfortable and easy to use - in reality they restrict you to holding in a particular way and heaven help you if you have larger or smaller hands.  Student blows past this, of course.  One of the demos they do is cutting a piece of rope.  So Mom takes the Cutco knife and cuts the rope - one, two, three strokes.  Student goes all "isn't that amazing, just three strokes to cut through that rope!  Now let's compare it to the knives you have here, so we can see how much better ours are."  Mom takes her cheap BigLots knives - one stroke, straight down to the cutting board.  Left the student speechless.  Especially since you know they sharpen theirs before every visit, and ours hadn't been sharpened since they were bought.

After that, Mom had to go on to her next student and left met to walk them out - and they still tried to sell me on getting her a set of steak knives as a gift, since we "didn't have any" (actually, we did, they were just in hiding for this episode.)  I was flabbergasted.  We'd spent the entire time complaining about how uncomfortable and dull the knives were, and they still thought they could sell me more of them?

I actually sold Cutco for a few days a loooong time ago.  I still have the knives from my demo set and love them.  They have never been sharpened and they are better than any other knife we've had from cheap to high end.  Everyone else I know who owns any Cutco knives says the same thing.   I'm not fan of the company or the scheme obviously, but even so.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Just Joe on April 05, 2017, 04:09:52 PM
I thought Cutco was a generic name  like ACME used to protect the very real brand. ;)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Mezzie on April 05, 2017, 05:10:53 PM
One of my students practiced a Cutco spiel on me, guided by her trainer/recruiter. She had me saw through the rope with my (professional chef quality) knife, then had me use a totally different motion when using the Cutco knife. I then used that same motion with my knife and cut the rope much more easily.

I don't think Cutco is necessarily crap, but I don't like dishonest marketing tricks like that and pointed it out.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Raenia on April 06, 2017, 07:32:38 AM
I actually sold Cutco for a few days a loooong time ago.  I still have the knives from my demo set and love them.  They have never been sharpened and they are better than any other knife we've had from cheap to high end.  Everyone else I know who owns any Cutco knives says the same thing.   I'm not fan of the company or the scheme obviously, but even so.

Not everyone you know, anymore ;)  I found that the contoured grip really hurt my hand when I was cutting for any length of time, a problem I've never had with any other brand.  I now use ceramic knives, and I find them much more comfortable and stay sharper than Cutco (which my mom gave me when I moved out, since she was fed up with them.)  YMMV, obviously.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: joleran on April 06, 2017, 10:32:20 AM
Cutco makes well-polished and fit knives out of a middling steel far better known for its corrosion resistance than holding an edge.  They get away with a lot by using the double-d serration pattern, but their paring and Chef's knives are only so-so over time, and just plain bad for the price.  Not the worst option for a home look looking for low-maintenance knives though.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreaming on April 06, 2017, 11:04:25 AM
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.

I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."

How well you do with Lularoe must be dependent on who you signed up under and how well you can market yourself. My SIL  is making a killing selling it.  The mothership might be awful, but her upline is wonderful I guess.  AND, she's really good at permoting herself.  Personally, I don't like the clothes (if I hear the term buttery soft one more time I swear I'm going to...)  and have not bought anything from her.  Thankfully she has never bothered me with it, but she doesn't need to.  I was in her FB group but got out because it sickened me the cult she has following her.  Really people, you just spent $150 on 3 items, and you're back for more a few days later.  "oh, but that pattern is my unicorn".  She has been doing it for a year, and will probably make close to 6 figures this year.  I kid you not.  THAT is how well she has marketed herself.  If it wasn't for Facebook, Lularoe would NOT be as big as it is.  I don't know why FB allows all the parties (from every MLM).  But since they do, one would think they would cash in on it somehow.  To my knowledge they have not yet done so. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: hops on April 06, 2017, 11:04:52 AM
We've hoped for years that my aunt would disentangle herself from a vitamin-peddling MLM scheme, but she's as firmly entrenched as ever. She fervently believes in this company's "health mission" and eagerly parrots every line of bullshit they feed her. As often as she can, she travels out-of-state to "conferences" where the brainwashing continues with PowerPoint presentations (full of data from bogus studies paid for by the mothership) and motivational speeches.

The photos she proudly shares of these events are always sad. Mostly she's surrounded by underemployed women in their fifties who long to be taken seriously, to be accepted as an expert in something, but their lack of scientific knowledge is staggering and their sales pitches to the chronically ill are nonsensical and wildly insensitive. Basically, if you're sick, you aren't trying hard enough. We have the power to heal ourselves through nutrition, and their products can help.

I've noticed many of her associates are fond of sharing memes suggesting that prescription drugs are a scam, which always makes me chuckle. Generic immunosuppressants to control diseases that might otherwise land me in the hospital cost $10 for a 90-day supply. The immune-boosting vitamins she's been trying to get me to buy for the last five years cost $30 to $75 per month.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Fomerly known as something on April 06, 2017, 02:28:34 PM
I love to talk about the summer I was employed by Amway corporation.  Notice I said employed, I interned at the mother ship in their International PR department.  They paid really well for a LCL area internship  1.5 to 2x the minimum wage and 40% more than my previous summer jobs working as a lifeguard. 

I got to sling BS about how Nope Amway was not a Ponzi scheme because there are real items you buy.  I also got to escort a guest of the company to the new "direct distributors" conference, and tell the nice suckers that no I have no intention of "owning" my own business.   
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jeromedawg on April 29, 2017, 12:17:51 AM
Rodan and Fields has been popping up all over my FB feed with our friends who are signing up. And yes, a majority of them are SAHMs. Is it because they're just bored? Or is it because they *need* the extra income? BTW: I've always been curious but what do people actually make from these schemes.

Anyway, it can be annoying at times when they tag or invite us to stuff. Fortunately, zero to nil house parties but some FB event parties. The latest friend who signed up 'accidentally' sent some invite to where when you click on it, it auto-joins you to the group LOL. I think it was genuinely unintentional but it is annoying. I haven't seen that many posts flooding the feed yet, but once that happens I'm going to mute it all. Hopefully that won't happen because these friends of ours in particular we have never known to be pushy like that. Money changes people though, so we'll see...

My sister-in-law was doing Stella & Dot for a while and I think stopped. Now I think she's trying to do "FB consultant" advertising for random jewelers, shoe stores, etc. My wife told me that she charged an "hourly" rate for posting ads on behalf of a jeweler because she said she would only spend several hours per week posting ads for them. I'm not quite sure what goes into posting ads besides writing a semi-lengthy post but I would think anyone in their right mind would pay by the post and not by the hour. How can you be sure you aren't paying someone $300 per hour to post 5 posts that only took 20 minutes to post total). Not to bash my SIL or anything but I think this is stemming from a desire to go SAHM - I don't think MLM and FB advertising is the route to take to replace a high six-figure salary though... The problem is that she's the bread-winner and my brother doesn't want her to stop working (and rightly so if you feel the need to take your family on international vacations every year, buy every gadget you could ever want, and buy all the designer clothes/shoes/jewelry you could ever want, in addition to mortgage and car payments)

My wife has a couple other friends who do Norwex and Usborne. We actually ordered a few Usborne books for our son, which are pretty good (one is a Chinese-learning book). We were considering buying some Norwex stuff but never ended up doing it. I guess the thought of reusable/sustainable/antimicrobial is appealing, but can't you just do all that with microfiber or whatever? And here comes the sales pitch in 3...2...1...

Ugh and finally, my wife's parents have a ton of friends who are into Amway and some other Korean/Chinese MLM scheme that sells them magic bar soap, magic toothbrushes, magic air purifiers, magic light bulbs that eat cigarette smoke, magic bidets, and magic everything and anything else you can imagine. And boy do they buy the magic... they bought a $700 bidet for themselves and then ordered one for us. They were super-mad when we told them we didn't want it, especially because they couldn't return it. So they had to find another sucker-friend to buy it off them - fortunately, they had no problems reselling it to another sucker. I don't think they got any commission of that though hahahaha!

On that note, I don't get why more husbands don't have their SAHM's research and analyze deals and areas to invest in for REI... that would be far more productive time spent. I've already told my wife (currently SAHM) to prepare herself for this, as well as to get ready for balancing the books once we start acquiring properties (she's an accountant). LOL. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: englishteacheralex on April 29, 2017, 05:47:10 AM
Something about this stuff really, really depresses me. About seven years ago I was invited to a "jewelry party" by a lady from my church. Rad! We're going to make jewelry! I don't know you that well, but you seem great and I'd love to become better friends with you!

Um, no. It was a party selling some kind of jewelry and then trying to recruit all of us to also sell it. I felt so disoriented. Why would I buy jewelry at a party? I buy modest, longlasting jewelry to make myself look more professional. I buy it from department stores when they are having a sale. I have about three nice pieces and a few costume pieces. That's it for jewelry. I dislike really cheap jewelry because it looks terrible pretty quickly.

But why would I buy expensive jewelry that looks cheaply made? And...I guess you weren't that into being friends, huh?

Since then I've gotten invites to parties for all this stuff. I'm pretty religious and an active member of my church. The MLM parties always makes me so sad. It feels like exploiting something so precious--relationships--I always say no and then have to work hard to not judge the person and resent them for using friendship for financial gain. I don't boycott the parties because I am afraid of caving to pressure to buy (I know I would never cave! Just not in my nature) but because I disagree so vehemently with their very premise.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: aceyou on April 29, 2017, 06:58:14 AM
My coworker does the Lulularue, or whatever it's called with the leggings. 

Amazingly, the staff is VERY happy that she is doing this.  They are buying leggings from her like they cure cancer.  I was first shocked thats she would consider this a viable thing to do, and more shocked that she is actually selling.  I will say that I have no idea if this is actually turning a profit though...no idea there. 

Yuck!!!!!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on April 29, 2017, 07:04:34 PM
It feels like exploiting something so precious--relationships--I always say no and then have to work hard to not judge the person and resent them for using friendship for financial gain.

That's MLM marketing strategy in a nutshell.  The parent company is counting on your inability to say no to a friend since the majority of their down-trace vendors don't know how to do actual marketing.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on April 30, 2017, 12:15:59 PM
BTW: I've always been curious but what do people actually make from these schemes.

It is now well documented that more than 95% of the participants in these schemes lose money.
Of the 5% remaining, the vast majority makes well below minimum wage.
In some countries like Canada these companies have a legal obligation to release their numbers so you can easily find numbers. And these are never pretty, even though they try really hard to fudge them by not counting what they call "inactive members". For the MLMs that don't release their numbers, you have to assume the numbers are even worse.

My little brother is with one of them, peddling Aloe vera gloop. The only reason he believes he is making money is because he is not counting his own consumption ( which is pretty much compulsory for him to qualify for commissions) as an expense.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LiveLean on April 30, 2017, 06:05:10 PM
At 24, in 1994, a then-girlfriend of mine got roped into a Mary Kay party at a mall. I went along. One of those hideous women said, "She'll be making more than you in no time." I was doing really well at the age of 24 and said, "Great. I make X. At what point will she be making that?" The woman quickly found someone else to talk to. (Dropped that GF for a number of reasons related to poor judgment and finances.)

Circa 2003, wife and I get invited to a wine party -- I had no concept of at-home MLM parties at the time. Our oldest is a year old, one of our first times out, paid for a sitter for the first time. I thought one brought a bottle of wine, so I grabbed a bottle from our stash. Walked in a little late right into the sales pitch. Stared darts at the douche husband the whole time, never spoke to them again.

Circa 2006, lots of friends selling Mona Vie. Said it gave them great energy, blah, blah, blah. I told them if some $60 fruit juice made that dramatic of an effect on their well-being, they must have some pretty crappy diets that could be improved in a lot of other areas for far less money.

In recent years, I co-authored a book with a guy who didn't want to do any sort of promotion. Said he found it cheesy. A month later his wife got into Rodan & Fields and she is relentless on FB . She got the Lexus, like some of the Mona Vie people who did well early. But just as $60 snake oil fruit juice goes away, so too will overpriced skin care.

Here's my rule for family and friends: You may mention your MLM to me once and I will forgive you for your stupidity. Second time, you're dead to me.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Gone_Hiking on April 30, 2017, 10:21:24 PM
It feels like exploiting something so precious--relationships--I always say no and then have to work hard to not judge the person and resent them for using friendship for financial gain.

That's MLM marketing strategy in a nutshell.  The parent company is counting on your inability to say no to a friend since the majority of their down-trace vendors don't know how to do actual marketing.

A while back, I met a woman who was selling Mary Kay or something like that.  She seemed really into me and I had no idea why.   One day she wanted to meet me for ice cream.  When I got there, she was not alone.  With her sat a woman who was her sales lead.  Out of the blue, the sales lead started recruiting me hard for sales position.  Was I making enough money?  Would I like more?  She mentioned the absolutely fabulous cruise.  She suggested I could be very effective among immigrant women like myself.  Because I have that immigrant entrepreneurial work ethics.   Nothing like being patronizing and playing a little stereotype to convince people to your position, no?  I got up and left as soon as I finished my ice cream.

I learned then how one advances in these organizations: by recruiting people and getting a cut of what the recruits sell.  The woman was so much into me because she thought I was going to make her money.   Fake friends I need not, and neither does anybody else.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jeromedawg on April 30, 2017, 10:47:20 PM
How does the "Lexus gift" work with R+F anyway? I saw on Reddit something about how you get the Lexus but if you don't meet sales goals any given month you're on the hook for the payment(s). LOL. I'm not sure why anyone would sign up for this without researching it more... or if they claim they did their "research" I wonder what sources they used.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ooeei on May 01, 2017, 06:46:12 AM
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore.  My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year.  You get better discounts the more people you recruit.  She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on May 01, 2017, 07:03:12 AM
Sadly, those vacation plans aren't a new thing.

I'd complain to TGIF. A waiter should not be able to do that!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: swick on May 01, 2017, 08:59:33 AM
*sigh* with FB apparently people can add you to groups without your consent and until you go in and "unfollow or leave" you will get all the group notifications. One "consultant" had the gall to PM me because my friend is hosting a party and "invited" me. Note, I did NOT accept this event request. I might not have minded if I had joined, but, just, no.

Can we start a FI MLM? for every person we convert, we get a % of the money they save, and their family saves and on and on...? ;)

Seriously, it frustrates me because a lot of the people I see doing this are good and relatively smart, but either they can't say "no" to a friend or family member who is a consultant. Or they see this as a way of building equality in a relationship and self-worth.  These people would be much, much better off if they spent their time learning how to properly manage the money that does come into the household instead of spending the huge amount of time/effort/energy/money to try and bring in income through an MLM.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: farmecologist on May 01, 2017, 09:05:48 AM
*sigh* with FB apparently people can add you to groups without your consent and until you go in and "unfollow or leave" you will get all the group notifications. One "consultant" had the gall to PM me because my friend is hosting a party and "invited" me. Note, I did NOT accept this event request. I might not have minded if I had joined, but, just, no.


Crap like this is why I have pretty much quit FB.  It seems to be turning into one big 'business tool' for people to exploit.

 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Ramblin' Ma'am on May 03, 2017, 08:57:56 AM
I took an Uber this weekend and the driver gave me a business card for his MLM "business"! My guess is he is cobbling together a bunch of side hustles to try to make a living.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jeromedawg on May 03, 2017, 09:26:13 AM
I took an Uber this weekend and the driver gave me a business card for his MLM "business"! My guess is he is cobbling together a bunch of side hustles to try to make a living.

LOL Uber is a great side-channel for spreading your MLM! I'll keep that in mind for if I ever get suckered into selling skincare products, because you know: "men need skincare too" (true statement but it seems less palatable when an R+F associate starts pointing it out)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jeromedawg on May 03, 2017, 09:28:58 AM
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore.  My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year.  You get better discounts the more people you recruit.  She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.

I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ooeei on May 03, 2017, 12:03:30 PM
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore.  My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year.  You get better discounts the more people you recruit.  She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.

I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.

Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there. 

My girlfriend and her friend tend to bring people way out of their normal comfort zones somehow, and get everyone to act informal around them.  I could easily see them asking about what his hobbies or what else he does are during a 5 minute conversation, and then excitedly pressing him for more info when he brought up a side business.  If I go to a restaurant and a waiter unprovoked tries to sell me on an MLM, you bet I'll be calling in a complaint.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jeromedawg on May 03, 2017, 01:18:48 PM
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore.  My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year.  You get better discounts the more people you recruit.  She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.

I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.

Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there. 

My girlfriend and her friend tend to bring people way out of their normal comfort zones somehow, and get everyone to act informal around them.  I could easily see them asking about what his hobbies or what else he does are during a 5 minute conversation, and then excitedly pressing him for more info when he brought up a side business.  If I go to a restaurant and a waiter unprovoked tries to sell me on an MLM, you bet I'll be calling in a complaint.

LOL I know what you mean - my parents are like that too... getting kind of nosy with other peoples' business.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on May 03, 2017, 02:18:21 PM
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore.  My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year.  You get better discounts the more people you recruit.  She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.

I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.

Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there. 

My girlfriend and her friend tend to bring people way out of their normal comfort zones somehow, and get everyone to act informal around them.  I could easily see them asking about what his hobbies or what else he does are during a 5 minute conversation, and then excitedly pressing him for more info when he brought up a side business.  If I go to a restaurant and a waiter unprovoked tries to sell me on an MLM, you bet I'll be calling in a complaint.

LOL I know what you mean - my parents are like that too... getting kind of nosy with other peoples' business.

Yup, I used to be like that but I've learned to caution my interest because some people can't stop once they get started or they'll ask for your help for something that is way too personal and I got tired of declining (I know we seem to be getting along but I just met you dude, I'm not going to babysit your cats and/or your child for a week).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on May 03, 2017, 02:34:47 PM
I got a friend request on Facebook this morning.  The name didn't look familiar, so I checked out the profile - maybe it's a married name from an old schoolmate.  Nope.  The profile was wide open, so I was able to scroll through her posts.  A lot of posting about how psychiatry is a scam - red flag #1.  Then I saw the real reason I was targeted.  She's with LuLaRoe!  Yeah, nope!  Request deleted.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreaming on May 03, 2017, 03:21:52 PM
*sigh* with FB apparently people can add you to groups without your consent and until you go in and "unfollow or leave" you will get all the group notifications. One "consultant" had the gall to PM me because my friend is hosting a party and "invited" me. Note, I did NOT accept this event request. I might not have minded if I had joined, but, just, no.


Crap like this is why I have pretty much quit FB.  It seems to be turning into one big 'business tool' for people to exploit.

I even complained to FB about it.  I'm sure my opinion went nowhere.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jeromedawg on May 04, 2017, 10:16:15 AM
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore.  My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year.  You get better discounts the more people you recruit.  She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.

I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.

Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there. 

My girlfriend and her friend tend to bring people way out of their normal comfort zones somehow, and get everyone to act informal around them.  I could easily see them asking about what his hobbies or what else he does are during a 5 minute conversation, and then excitedly pressing him for more info when he brought up a side business.  If I go to a restaurant and a waiter unprovoked tries to sell me on an MLM, you bet I'll be calling in a complaint.

LOL I know what you mean - my parents are like that too... getting kind of nosy with other peoples' business.

Yup, I used to be like that but I've learned to caution my interest because some people can't stop once they get started or they'll ask for your help for something that is way too personal and I got tired of declining (I know we seem to be getting along but I just met you dude, I'm not going to babysit your cats and/or your child for a week).

The issue with my parents is that they're not only nosy but they become over-invested in people and way too soon. To the point that they meet them one day and are 'best friends' the next. For example, my dad met this kid on the bus who apparently was fresh out of college or something. They started talking about jobs and IT etc - somehow it came up that the kid was looking for a job or something. My dad immediately assumed the role of mentor, advising him on what he should and shouldn't do and told all of us that he would be meeting with this kid next week to talk more. I know he's trying to be super helpful or whatever, but sometimes it's too much - just stop over-involving yourself with everyone and everything, thinking that you know what's best for them! He probably feels like he'll project onto others what he couldn't do with his sons - instead of waiting for us to come to him or asking us if we want his advice, he just tries to fish for the information and lays it on us (he'll often ask about my job and I've never liked talking about work, and he knows it. Yet he'll continually ask about it. With my WFH job he threw out his unsolicited opinions about how I really need face time and I should try to find an office to work out of with people in it....). It's all in good intention but I've never considered his advice as particularly sage wisdom either, therefore I tend not to take most of it. It's just super annoying when he tries to impart unsolicited wisdom on us.

It could also be for the agenda of somehow getting something out of that person too, and once they've gotten what they want they drop communication and pretend like they never knew them. Super fickle and extremely annoying. My brother lives near them and interacts daily with them as well as sees their interactions with others - he's the one who tells me most of these things. I've seen it on several occasions as well. I'm just glad they never got suckered into MLM crap, because if they did I think a lot of people would really hate them.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Dr.Jeckyl on May 17, 2017, 10:21:08 AM
Ughhh....

I guess I'm a bit into a pyramid scheme myself. After all when I put more money into my index funds they then create employees (dividends and returns) and then those employees bring in even more employees.

But seriously, my old neighbor is seriously into these. The wife and I went to one of her wine and cheese parties and bought a couple bottles of wine, why not. But since then she has gotten into some company that signs you up for utilities, cable companies, and cell phones. She told my wife how much she could save us on our phone bill and my wife replied that would mean we'd almost pay nothing for our plans (pre-paid). She then invited my wife over to hang out. My wife then got the hard pitch about finance and helping us out of debt. To this my wife replied that we don't have debt (we do but how do you justify paying off student loans that are 2.5%) and that I could teach her how to get out of debt, invest, and retire early. She is now with some company that gives you a Jeep and "pays for it". She is always posting about insurance and financial planning on FB.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Just Joe on May 17, 2017, 02:57:20 PM
I'd love to peer into the thought process of people like that. Well, then again maybe it would be an experience that would give me long lasting mental scars. These people's ideas just don't add up logically.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on May 17, 2017, 04:49:35 PM
Ughhh....

I guess I'm a bit into a pyramid scheme myself. After all when I put more money into my index funds they then create employees (dividends and returns) and then those employees bring in even more employees.

But seriously, my old neighbor is seriously into these. The wife and I went to one of her wine and cheese parties and bought a couple bottles of wine, why not. But since then she has gotten into some company that signs you up for utilities, cable companies, and cell phones. She told my wife how much she could save us on our phone bill and my wife replied that would mean we'd almost pay nothing for our plans (pre-paid). She then invited my wife over to hang out. My wife then got the hard pitch about finance and helping us out of debt. To this my wife replied that we don't have debt (we do but how do you justify paying off student loans that are 2.5%) and that I could teach her how to get out of debt, invest, and retire early. She is now with some company that gives you a Jeep and "pays for it". She is always posting about insurance and financial planning on FB.

ooooh,  can you share what the company name is?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LadyMuMu on May 17, 2017, 05:37:48 PM
Primerica?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Abo345 on May 17, 2017, 10:33:51 PM
I always am amused by acquaintances who do the MLM thing are constantly posting on Facebook about "how easy" it is and how close they are to becoming a director/ regional lead/ VP of the world etc. with their "easy" sales.

One person I know was always posting about Mary-Kay. She is already a Mary Kay DIRECTOR! She has a team! She makes money soooo easy! I especially loved the photos she always posted on FB of the Mary Kay conventions: posing next to the pink SUV, a Kate spade handbag, or fancy price of jewelry with the caption "I will be coming back for these gifts shortly! On track to earn them this year!"

All the while, she was also posting on the same Facebook account about how her day job as a yoga instructor got her hours cut, she can't afford to make rent, does anyone know of an apartment available with cheaper rent ASAP?? Is anyone looking for a roommate she can't afford this months rent on her own? She's looking to move to a different city but can't afford to rent a place on her own, does anyone know anyone with an empty room to rent in this new city?

But wait, what about that "easy" Mary Kay money miss big boss director lady?? Needless to say, I wasn't interested in joining her sales team.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Just Joe on May 18, 2017, 07:59:02 AM
Why don't these people compartmentalize their business from their personal lives online? Do they think that people can't put two and two together?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: prognastat on May 18, 2017, 08:03:28 AM
Why don't these people compartmentalize their business from their personal lives online? Do they think that people can't put two and two together?

If they were acting smart enough to do that they would probably also be smart enough to not take part in a MLM scheme.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on May 18, 2017, 12:27:12 PM
Why don't these people compartmentalize their business from their personal lives online? Do they think that people can't put two and two together?
Because they need to leverage their personal relationships.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on May 18, 2017, 12:48:41 PM
Why don't these people compartmentalize their business from their personal lives online? Do they think that people can't put two and two together?
Because they need to leverage their personal relationships.

Yep. Otherwise they won't sell any products or recruit anyone for their downline.

Direct marketing is only sustainable or even marginally profitable for people with a massive network of friends, family, and neighbors who for some reason can't or won't use online options or for whom product related get-togethers are actually a source of entertainment. In a situation like that, hosting or performing at a sales party isn't considered an imposition on the guests, who come wanting to actually buy.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on May 19, 2017, 06:17:24 AM
I heard an ad on the radio this morning for a LaLuRoe event happening at a local convention center this w/e. Like lambs to the slaughter...
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on May 19, 2017, 06:23:40 AM
I heard an ad on the radio this morning for a LaLuRoe event happening at a local convention center this w/e. Like lambs to the slaughter...

when will the world finally have enough leggings with crazy patterns with oversized shirts?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: JDFW on May 19, 2017, 08:12:56 AM
I read that it takes $6k to start with Lulularoe. 6K!!! I hate that people let themselves be roped into risking that kind of money. A friend of mine does it, but I decline all her invites about it.

If anyone ever mentions MLMs to me, I just say, "I don't buy things." Then they go away.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Apples on May 22, 2017, 09:15:40 AM
Anyone here remember 31 bags?  They actually had quality bags (I was given 2 as gifts, and we use them a lot), but the company was based on Proverbs 31, which I'm not churchy enough to remember what that line is.  My cousin sold them, and my mom bought a bunch from her to give out as Christmas presents to all the women in the family.  While nice, it was also done to "support" this cousin.  Who needed support.  And a real job.  And was already living with my parents for several months while searching for said job. sigh.

Also, LulaRoe is apparently not all sunshine and rainbows.  This website has lots of consultants sending her dirt:  http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/05/11/Get-In-Good-With-the-Warehouse
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on May 22, 2017, 11:06:31 AM
I heard an ad on the radio this morning for a LaLuRoe event happening at a local convention center this w/e. Like lambs to the slaughter...

when will the world finally have enough leggings with crazy patterns with oversized shirts?
I know, right?  I actually got my very first invite to an online LLR party a month ago or so.  I can't believe it took that long.  Thing is, a few of my friends have cute leggings.  They are comfy, and I can see the appeal.

But how many do you need?  I have four pairs of leggings for running, and a pair of comfy shorts for lounging at home.  I don't need leggings with ... hearts, unicorns, etc.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jeromedawg on May 22, 2017, 11:28:26 AM
Anyone here remember 31 bags?  They actually had quality bags (I was given 2 as gifts, and we use them a lot), but the company was based on Proverbs 31, which I'm not churchy enough to remember what that line is.  My cousin sold them, and my mom bought a bunch from her to give out as Christmas presents to all the women in the family.  While nice, it was also done to "support" this cousin.  Who needed support.  And a real job.  And was already living with my parents for several months while searching for said job. sigh.

Also, LulaRoe is apparently not all sunshine and rainbows.  This website has lots of consultants sending her dirt:  http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/05/11/Get-In-Good-With-the-Warehouse

LOL! https://www.mythirtyone.com/ - never heard of them till you mentioned it. The premise of Proverbs 31 is basically about the wife being virtuous and hard-working.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on May 22, 2017, 12:07:43 PM
Sister in law of friend selling LulaRoe says she is making $20k per month doing it. Is that really even possible? She did get in very early. Is it sustainable?
I don't know if that's gross revenue or net income. But damn that's pretty good!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreaming on May 22, 2017, 12:20:59 PM
Sister in law of friend selling LulaRoe says she is making $20k per month doing it. Is that really even possible? She did get in very early. Is it sustainable?
I don't know if that's gross revenue or net income. But damn that's pretty good!

Yes, I think for some it is.  MY SIL is raking it in also and she has only been doing it for a year.  She is very good at marketing herself and she has a group of gals who just don't know when to say when.  I swear some are changing over their whole wardrobe (leggings, shirts, dresses, skirts, etc to LLR) to the tune of thousands of dollars.  I have not bought one piece of it and I never will.  Soft  - yes.  Fun patterns - some, yes.  Poor quality - yes.  Overpriced - HELL YES!

Sustainable - yes and no.  Due to mostly Facebook parties, I would say yes to being able to sell forever because you can reach anyone with an account.  No more needing it to be local because you have to drive to their house for the party.  No because the trend will die or the company will have too much growth too fast and it will implode.  Either scenario would be good! 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on May 22, 2017, 12:28:19 PM
Sister in law of friend selling LulaRoe says she is making $20k per month doing it. Is that really even possible? She did get in very early. Is it sustainable?
I don't know if that's gross revenue or net income. But damn that's pretty good!
1) Don't trust any revenue numbers from MLM members unless they show you their tax returns
2) They are taught to "fake it until they make it" meaning it is very likely the numbers they give you are inflated (if not completely false)
3) In general the numbers being shared are gross revenue, not counting personal expenses or cost of buying the product. In the same line of thoughts, an Amazon affiliate can tell you they shipped $300'000 worth of products in a year, not telling you they only get a 3% commission out of that number. My brother pretended he was doing $800 a month in an MLM. But he had to pay for more than $1000 in product (and kept pretending it was different because he would "buy it anyway"), so, you get the idea.
4) A very tiny percentage (1% or less) of people who "got in very early" do indeed make a lot of money. They do this by exploiting their bottom line, it's up to you to understand if your friend's SIL is lying to you or to hundreds of people, whichever is easier to believe.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on May 22, 2017, 05:49:07 PM
Anyone here remember 31 bags?  They actually had quality bags (I was given 2 as gifts, and we use them a lot), but the company was based on Proverbs 31, which I'm not churchy enough to remember what that line is.  My cousin sold them, and my mom bought a bunch from her to give out as Christmas presents to all the women in the family.  While nice, it was also done to "support" this cousin.  Who needed support.  And a real job.  And was already living with my parents for several months while searching for said job. sigh.

Also, LulaRoe is apparently not all sunshine and rainbows.  This website has lots of consultants sending her dirt:  http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/05/11/Get-In-Good-With-the-Warehouse

LOL! https://www.mythirtyone.com/ - never heard of them till you mentioned it. The premise of Proverbs 31 is basically about the wife being virtuous and hard-working.

Even better, it is about a wife running her own business and making and managing her own money, owning her own land and property, for the benefit of (her) and her family.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MsPeacock on May 23, 2017, 05:42:06 PM
I participate on some mom's boards and MLM topics always result in a flame war. About 10% of the posters see them (as I do) as exploitative of the sales people, a scam, a way to lose money, annoying to all who are entrapped by their "friends" into parties selling overpriced stuff, etc. 40% don't care one way or the other. The other 50% participate in some MLM and insist that they "own their own business" and that they will get rich and that anyone who says differently is wrong, and that buying from them is "supporting a local business" etc. 

The only thing I think of any quality that I've gotten from an MLM is Tupperware. But Rubbermaid is a very close second, at 1/3 of the cost, and available easily at Target (e.g. none of the sales pressure).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on May 23, 2017, 05:58:51 PM
Horray!  SIL has finally "seen the light" and stated that she makes very little money from the MLM she was a rep for, especially on an hourly basis.   She will keep it up with the internet orders (no inventory), but will not market it any more.

This told to me by my MIL, while I was standing in her laundry room, surrounded by a vast number of MLM items she has bought from SIL from 2-3 years ago, not yet used.   (scented handsoaps, expensive kitchen small appliances, etc).   When MIL stopped buying from SIL, I think SIL's profits tanked.  Of course, SIL used her "profits" to take the low cost "vacations" to MLM conferences previously...

Anyway, so very happy now.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: clarkfan1979 on May 25, 2017, 10:16:40 PM
In 1999, I sold Excel long distance to my family and friends. It was an easy sell because their rates were lower than the local phone company. Much lower.

I saved my friends and family money and I made around $3000. I think the buy-in was $150.

The hardest part was getting a small business to sign up. However, my step-dad had many small business owners in his social network, so it wasn't that hard. 

It was an MLM, but I didn't try to get any of my friends to sell it.

Did anyone else do this?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: lchu on May 30, 2017, 07:13:57 AM
Horray!  SIL has finally "seen the light" and stated that she makes very little money from the MLM she was a rep for, especially on an hourly basis.   She will keep it up with the internet orders (no inventory), but will not market it any more.

Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL.  She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts.  Fortunately, I live out of state so I'm out of the direct line of fire, but I still get included on all the Facebook invites (so that I feel included!  Haha!) and watching the drama unfold is like watching a train wreck.  I can't look away!

She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.

So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc).  This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.

So, the most recent variation was the "sneak & block" debacle: she had the consultant arrive last and "block in" the other cars to make it extremely awkward for people to leave before the MLM person had reached the end of the presentation.  Yeah, someone drove over their front lawn to leave.

As far as I can tell, a third of her friend group is no longer friendly with her over the whole sneak party issue, another third is planning an intervention (we can still be friends but none of us are ever coming to your house again, for any reason), and the final third apparently doesn't have an issue.


I'm sad that she's so trapped in the consumerist mindset that what she already owns is never enough, that she's willing to sacrifice her relationships with other people over the opportunity to get more stuff that doesn't do anything to make her happier.  I hope the friend intervention (or the loss of friends) serves as a wake-up call for her.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jeromedawg on May 30, 2017, 10:32:13 AM
Horray!  SIL has finally "seen the light" and stated that she makes very little money from the MLM she was a rep for, especially on an hourly basis.   She will keep it up with the internet orders (no inventory), but will not market it any more.

Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL.  She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts.  Fortunately, I live out of state so I'm out of the direct line of fire, but I still get included on all the Facebook invites (so that I feel included!  Haha!) and watching the drama unfold is like watching a train wreck.  I can't look away!

She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.

So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc).  This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.

So, the most recent variation was the "sneak & block" debacle: she had the consultant arrive last and "block in" the other cars to make it extremely awkward for people to leave before the MLM person had reached the end of the presentation.  Yeah, someone drove over their front lawn to leave.

As far as I can tell, a third of her friend group is no longer friendly with her over the whole sneak party issue, another third is planning an intervention (we can still be friends but none of us are ever coming to your house again, for any reason), and the final third apparently doesn't have an issue.


I'm sad that she's so trapped in the consumerist mindset that what she already owns is never enough, that she's willing to sacrifice her relationships with other people over the opportunity to get more stuff that doesn't do anything to make her happier.  I hope the friend intervention (or the loss of friends) serves as a wake-up call for her.

Whoa, that sounds *drastic*! Running over the lawn to escape!!! Like something out of a movie hahahaha. That is pretty awesome though. It's crazy how passive-aggressive someone can get over doing this sneak-parties and going as far as attempting to block them from leaving! No wonder she pissed all her "friends" off - I'd be furious too if my wife had a "friend" like that. Maybe she should get into used car sales :D
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on May 30, 2017, 11:26:50 AM
Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL.  She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts.  ...

She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.

So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc).  This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.


This made me laugh!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: pachnik on May 30, 2017, 11:31:41 AM
Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL.  She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts.  ...

She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.

So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc).  This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.


This made me laugh!

Me too.  But I also wonder what kind of a person basically uses their friends like this.  I can't imagine being invited somewhere without being told it was a MLM event.  Kind of like throwing your friends/family under the bus.   
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreadmoose on May 30, 2017, 12:37:43 PM
It's funny how some have aligned with the FIRE goals that I am excited about.

I have a few friends (Juice+) that advertise constantly about being retired early (and their insanely healthy lifestyles due to fruit skin pills).

Is this what happens when you get enough down-lines, they stop allowing you to sell or increase them? I can't imagine it's sustainable long term, so why wouldn't they maximize as much as they can while it's big. Not to mention there appears to be mandatory conferences and "vacations" to business towns and hotel meeting rooms every week, so I question the authenticity of the ER dream.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on May 30, 2017, 02:48:30 PM
It's funny how some have aligned with the FIRE goals that I am excited about.

I have a few friends (Juice+) that advertise constantly about being retired early (and their insanely healthy lifestyles due to fruit skin pills).

Is this what happens when you get enough down-lines, they stop allowing you to sell or increase them? I can't imagine it's sustainable long term, so why wouldn't they maximize as much as they can while it's big. Not to mention there appears to be mandatory conferences and "vacations" to business towns and hotel meeting rooms every week, so I question the authenticity of the ER dream.

I think the people who make money in direct marketing are either people with fantastic networks and few other delivery options who are able to avoid MLM schtick, or else MLM'ers who get in early on the ground floor so that everyone else is "downline". Aside from that it appears to me that the vast majority of money is in the "tools" sales, which is generally done through a separate company. That's who rakes in the green from all the mandatory conferences, tape of the week, and book of the month sales. A person could hit ER pretty well if they skipped any MLM involvement themselves and just focused on tools and motivational speeches.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: onehair on May 30, 2017, 03:18:10 PM
I confess my brother is in an MLM it's called ACN.  He adores it and claims to make money off it.  My mother and I have agreed to support him but never buy from it or sell anything from it it's a fair compromise I think.  My stepfather dabbled in it too.  I used to be a half a**sed Avon rep when the one in my building left but after that business fell off and I became afraid of being busted for solicitation so I stopped since it's a federal building and people can be vindictive or turn you in off hand.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on May 30, 2017, 03:25:17 PM
The sneak attack MLM party is the absolute worst!

Funny story: when I was engaged my husband was in the air force in Ohio, and I still lived in Texas for school. I visited him for 4 weeks in the summer. The second day I was there the women in his group of friends were all having a get together, and I was invited too. I had never met any of them. It was a sex toys sales party. I did not go. That was not how I wanted to meet the group. Even after I was good friends with them all, I still skipped the sex toys party. Call me a prude, or call me cheap. Either is true.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on May 30, 2017, 03:48:00 PM
The sneak attack MLM party is the absolute worst!

Funny story: when I was engaged my husband was in the air force in Ohio, and I still lived in Texas for school. I visited him for 4 weeks in the summer. The second day I was there the women in his group of friends were all having a get together, and I was invited too. I had never met any of them. It was a sex toys sales party. I did not go. That was not how I wanted to meet the group. Even after I was good friends with them all, I still skipped the sex toys party. Call me a prude, or call me cheap. Either is true.

Yuck. That's not how I'd want to meet other folks in a social circle either.

Having a mental image of a new friend using some of that stuff is just not my idea of social bonding. "Oh, that's Jeff, he's the one with the Hello Kitty butt plug." Meanwhile they'd all be thinking something similar about me: "I wonder what Grim is going to do with all of that scythe lube; it does seem like an excessive amount."

In fact, now that I think of it, I'd pay a significant (for me) amount of money to avoid that situation.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreadmoose on May 30, 2017, 03:48:27 PM

I think the people who make money in direct marketing are either people with fantastic networks and few other delivery options who are able to avoid MLM schtick, or else MLM'ers who get in early on the ground floor so that everyone else is "downline". Aside from that it appears to me that the vast majority of money is in the "tools" sales, which is generally done through a separate company. That's who rakes in the green from all the mandatory conferences, tape of the week, and book of the month sales. A person could hit ER pretty well if they skipped any MLM involvement themselves and just focused on tools and motivational speeches.

I've always wondered how icky I would feel going this route. I have some family that swears by Primerica and the freedom it's given them (though I haven't noticed any overwhelming wealth and they all have multiple side-jobs going). I just can't imagine doing what they've done and charging to put people into overpriced insurance and mutual fund options. They've had multiple friends over the years simply "disappear" after huge falling outs and I think I know why..

That said, what kicked me into looking in to better investment options and eventually to MMM was when I inquired about money I'd invested from my first job at 13 and noticed MER's around 4%. Nothing like legally stealing money from a child (luckily it didn't sour me to investing altogether).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: twbird18 on May 30, 2017, 04:47:58 PM
Sister in law of friend selling LulaRoe says she is making $20k per month doing it. Is that really even possible? She did get in very early. Is it sustainable?
I don't know if that's gross revenue or net income. But damn that's pretty good!
1) Don't trust any revenue numbers from MLM members unless they show you their tax returns
2) They are taught to "fake it until they make it" meaning it is very likely the numbers they give you are inflated (if not completely false)
3) In general the numbers being shared are gross revenue, not counting personal expenses or cost of buying the product. In the same line of thoughts, an Amazon affiliate can tell you they shipped $300'000 worth of products in a year, not telling you they only get a 3% commission out of that number. My brother pretended he was doing $800 a month in an MLM. But he had to pay for more than $1000 in product (and kept pretending it was different because he would "buy it anyway"), so, you get the idea.
4) A very tiny percentage (1% or less) of people who "got in very early" do indeed make a lot of money. They do this by exploiting their bottom line, it's up to you to understand if your friend's SIL is lying to you or to hundreds of people, whichever is easier to believe.

It's totally possible to make $20K/month selling LulaRoe right now - it's crazy popular & they just got a 2 yr contract with Disney to sell Disney printed stuff - which is kind of like printing money. I don't really understand why people need so many pairs of leggings & their clothes are crazy expensive IMO. My sister has been a rep for ~8 months & has sold >$12K all but one month - when she was on vacation. Let's just say I've seen her bank account - if your sister-in-law's friend got in early & is actually good at selling + is probably a trainer which means she gets a cut of all the people under her, that number is totally doable, but also probably not long-term sustainable.

Not gonna lie though - I'm super jealous of my sister because at their last conference, the 2500 people who were there got to go to Disneyland for 4 hours after hours.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: marble_faun on May 30, 2017, 05:02:09 PM
Wow, this is bonkers.  MLMs don't seem to have infected my social circle yet. (Or maybe I just haven't noticed because I no longer use Facebook.) 

Reading this thread, the worst seems to be that these rip-off companies are parasitically infiltrating peoples' social groups.  The story about the lady throwing stealth MLM parties is just horrifying! It's so sad to me that people would choose the false dream of MLMs and their shoddy products over maintaining civil relationships with family, friends, and neighbors. 

If I met anyone who seemed into this, I might direct them to the "side hustle" thread here on the MMM forum instead.

P.S. A while back "This American Life" did a show on an MLM-type scheme called WakeUpNow. It was pretty fascinating: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/543/wake-up-now
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on May 30, 2017, 05:31:03 PM
It's totally possible to make $20K/month selling LulaRoe right now

Quote
the median annual bonus payments made to Eligible U.S. Independent Retailers at all ranks in 2016 was $525.94.
[...]
In 2016, 72.63% of U.S. Independent Retailers were Ineligible and therefore did not receive any bonus payments from LuLaRoe.
Source: official Lularoe income disclosure for 2016 (http://www.lularoe.com/income-disclosure-statement/)

Of course, if you can sell between 1000 and 2000 leggings a month, then yes... But I wouldn't qualify this as "totally possible"
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Rowellen on May 30, 2017, 07:08:56 PM
The sneak attack MLM party is the absolute worst!

Funny story: when I was engaged my husband was in the air force in Ohio, and I still lived in Texas for school. I visited him for 4 weeks in the summer. The second day I was there the women in his group of friends were all having a get together, and I was invited too. I had never met any of them. It was a sex toys sales party. I did not go. That was not how I wanted to meet the group. Even after I was good friends with them all, I still skipped the sex toys party. Call me a prude, or call me cheap. Either is true.

I had the sneak attack sex toy party happen to me. I was very unimpressed. I almost unfriended this "friend" afterwards on FB but chose to just unfollow instead. She's just invited me to her "birthday" party in a few weeks. I think I'll be very busy that night enjoying a quiet dinner and bottle of wine with my family at home. I just can't trust that it is actually a birthday party.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Abo345 on May 30, 2017, 07:42:34 PM
I met a new neighbor, and right after exchanging pleasantries she immediately started in on the MLM nonsense. She has a Mary Kay business in case I'm interested in make up. Oh you don't wear makeup? That's okay she can do a skincare demo on me. It will only take 20 minutes, it will make my face feel great! Blah blah blah. Would NOT except "no" and just kept going on and on. who cares about building relationships with your neighbors when you could just use them to sell crap to?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Abo345 on May 30, 2017, 07:52:07 PM
Horray!  SIL has finally "seen the light" and stated that she makes very little money from the MLM she was a rep for, especially on an hourly basis.   She will keep it up with the internet orders (no inventory), but will not market it any more.

Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL.  She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts.  Fortunately, I live out of state so I'm out of the direct line of fire, but I still get included on all the Facebook invites (so that I feel included!  Haha!) and watching the drama unfold is like watching a train wreck.  I can't look away!

She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.

So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc).  This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.

So, the most recent variation was the "sneak & block" debacle: she had the consultant arrive last and "block in" the other cars to make it extremely awkward for people to leave before the MLM person had reached the end of the presentation.  Yeah, someone drove over their front lawn to leave.

As far as I can tell, a third of her friend group is no longer friendly with her over the whole sneak party issue, another third is planning an intervention (we can still be friends but none of us are ever coming to your house again, for any reason), and the final third apparently doesn't have an issue.


I'm sad that she's so trapped in the consumerist mindset that what she already owns is never enough, that she's willing to sacrifice her relationships with other people over the opportunity to get more stuff that doesn't do anything to make her happier.  I hope the friend intervention (or the loss of friends) serves as a wake-up call for her.

WOW regarding the sneak attack. This means it occurred to her that the people invited would not want to stay for a sales presentation but cared so little about her "guests" feelings to think of a way to force them to stay anyway.

On a separate note, most people i know who are into the MLM thing are really annoying about it for a year or so and then I think they realize they will not actually get rich or have a real business, and then quietly go into the night at let the "business" die. How long was this sneak attack person into the MLM thing for? Just curious
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: twbird18 on June 01, 2017, 03:25:04 PM
It's totally possible to make $20K/month selling LulaRoe right now

Quote
the median annual bonus payments made to Eligible U.S. Independent Retailers at all ranks in 2016 was $525.94.
[...]
In 2016, 72.63% of U.S. Independent Retailers were Ineligible and therefore did not receive any bonus payments from LuLaRoe.
Source: official Lularoe income disclosure for 2016 (http://www.lularoe.com/income-disclosure-statement/)

Of course, if you can sell between 1000 and 2000 leggings a month, then yes... But I wouldn't qualify this as "totally possible"

I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to show - I said it was possible. I didn't say it was probable. Someone is getting those high bonus checks. And Lularoe sells a bunch of stuff that isn't leggings. I also stated she's probably a minimum of trainer if she really did get in early - where the average bonus is $52K/yr so basically $4.5K/mo that comes not from selling. A good sale is ~40 pieces at an average price of $35.

I have no real interest in MLM, but I am a good sister & I listen to her talk about her sales goals, new products & such. The reason MLM is so popular among a certain sect is because someone is making that kind of money without having to go to work at set hours. I also, don't really get why some people are so against these type of things having potential for a certain personality type/way of life. Physical businesses pay out bonuses to different management levels. It's possible at a very low level in my industry to get a 5 figure bonus every year. The bonus checks trainers get are comparable to management bonuses. In my mind, there is no real difference, except I have to go work in my office for 160hrs/month & MLM people work whatever hours they set for themselves.

It's cool that you think this isn't possible for anyone & that you think people lie about how much they make(because let's be real a lot of people do), but everyone isn't. Some people do make significant amounts of money at MLM.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreadmoose on June 01, 2017, 03:32:09 PM
It's cool that you think this isn't possible for anyone & that you think people lie about how much they make(because let's be real a lot of people do), but everyone isn't. Some people do make significant amounts of money at MLM.

I would not argue the fact that a few people are making large sums of money (or livable sums of money).

My issue is that it is this faint glimmer of hope that is pulling people towards MLM's and costing them money, friendships, and family.

For me it kind of works the same way this forum advocates simple index matching investments. There are a tiny percentage of funds / people that can beat the market, but the more you hear about them the more you think it's normal or even reasonable to expect. The selection bias in hearing about one person that has "made it" with an MLM ignores the overwhelming facts that almost everyone doesn't, and it ends up costing them and their networks.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on June 01, 2017, 03:42:10 PM
It's cool that you think this isn't possible for anyone & that you think people lie about how much they make(because let's be real a lot of people do), but everyone isn't. Some people do make significant amounts of money at MLM.
My problem is that comments like yours make it sound like it's "reasonably" achievable, when it's been proven over and over that 95% to 99% of the participants in these schemes end up losing money. Those who end up making money, whether they realize it or not, do it unethically by exploiting the people in their downline.

So, to answer your question about why some people are so against this kind of thing is because people like me feel that these businesses are unethical, and I hate schemes where the weak are preyed on. It's nothing against you or your sister, it's about the message you convey to people who could fall prey to these schemes, on a website dedicated to financial independence. This sends the wrong signal IMO. You have clear survivor bias here, in that you happen to know one of the 1% of people who are successful in this business. I invite you to read this article which states better than me what I'm trying to say: https://timelessvie.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/but-why-arent-you-balanced-what-about-all-the-positive-stories-about-incredibly-rich-insert-name-here-mlmers-in-this-post-we-explain-why-balance-is-bullshit-when-it-comes-to-network-ma/
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: englishteacheralex on June 01, 2017, 03:43:02 PM
The more I check back with this thread and some of the links that have been posted, the more I find MLMs to be unequivocally bad for society, potential for high earning notwithstanding.

No matter how successful one is at it, attempting to turn human relationships into a cash cow for no motive other than profit is deplorable. It is not merely tasteless. It is unethical. There is a layer of fraud, manipulation, and exploitation involved that makes the entire industry a scourge, as far as I can tell.

I used to find MLMs irritating but benign. Don't like MLMs? Don't buy the products or attempt to sell them. However, after some research, I now think they are harmful and ought to be regulated out of existence. It's one thing to be played for a sucker. It's another thing to sell out your family and friends in the process.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: twbird18 on June 01, 2017, 04:24:47 PM
It's cool that you think this isn't possible for anyone & that you think people lie about how much they make(because let's be real a lot of people do), but everyone isn't. Some people do make significant amounts of money at MLM.
My problem is that comments like yours make it sound like it's "reasonably" achievable, when it's been proven over and over that 95% to 99% of the participants in these schemes end up losing money. Those who end up making money, whether they realize it or not, do it unethically by exploiting the people in their downline.

So, to answer your question about why some people are so against this kind of thing is because people like me feel that these businesses are unethical, and I hate schemes where the weak are preyed on. It's nothing against you or your sister, it's about the message you convey to people who could fall prey to these schemes, on a website dedicated to financial independence. This sends the wrong signal IMO. You have clear survivor bias here, in that you happen to know one of the 1% of people who are successful in this business. I invite you to read this article which states better than me what I'm trying to say: https://timelessvie.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/but-why-arent-you-balanced-what-about-all-the-positive-stories-about-incredibly-rich-insert-name-here-mlmers-in-this-post-we-explain-why-balance-is-bullshit-when-it-comes-to-network-ma/

I'm actually personally acquainted with more than 1 person who is successful at an MLM. I used my sister as an example solely because someone else asked if that number was really possible with LuLaRoe & it is. I know because I've seen the $20K deposit before.

I would argue that 95% of people who try out MLM are unsuccessful because they have no idea what they are doing just like 95% of people couldn't start up their own business and run it successfully. I have an MBA - when she decided to do this, we set down, researched it,discussed it & wrote a business plan. She's successful at it because she didn't think money was going to magically appear & because she has exactly the personality to sell unique clothing items live on Facebook or in person. If it had been a different product or marketing scheme, I would have told her she was being crazy because it wouldn't have suited her.

I would never argue that MLM's aren't bad for most people, but I don't think they are inherently evil either. I think like much of life people are so uneducated that they are unable to determine whether something is good for them or not & continuously make bad decisions about what they are doing. If you're of the mindset that MLM's are bad because they prey on weak people - then there are 1M other things that we should remove from society because they prey on weak people.

This entire site exists because most people can't figure out the difference between a need and a want which causes them to inevitably spend more than they need to because our entire society preys on that weakness.


Also, from my sister - who says this is why some MLMs, like LLR are different from other MLMs that are much closer to pyramid schemes:

"Here's an interesting statistic for your group. 70% of retailers with LLR do not grow teams. Only 5% of the people in this company hold "leadership" titles and we're expected to work hard for our bonus money. I think, that 70% number is important, because you don't have to participate in team growing to make an excellent living selling LLR. Marty and I were just talking about how much more $$ I could make if I didn't have to give my team like 40% of my time.

We're switching to a sales based compensation plan on July 1st and my check will take a hit, unless I TEACH my girls how to sell and be successful. We are implementing much stricter requirements for leadership. Meaning you have to do a minimum of 10 Pop-ups and $10,000 in sales before you can "sponsor" someone else. This will entirely eliminate people just making money off of other people's hard work"

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on June 01, 2017, 05:23:15 PM
I know because I've seen the $20K deposit before.
Well, I feel this is different from what you stated before. a 20K deposit represents 20K in revenue, not in profit.
In order to generate a 20K revenue, there has been inventory that needed to be purchased, an expensive subscription to the MLM in the first place (granted, just a one time expense), plus additional expenses such as the time spent promoting the business, possibly gas to go to events, etc.... I think I mentioned that above, but my little brother was also "making" $800 a month in an MLM. Except his expenses were $1000+ ...
For the sake of the discussion you should clarify which it is. Revenue or profit? What matters of course is the actual profit.

Quote
I would argue that 95% of people who try out MLM are unsuccessful because they have no idea what they are doing just like 95% of people couldn't start up their own business and run it successfully.
This is incorrect, and is exactly the kind of BS that MLMs love people to believe. There are studies that show that the failure rate in an MLM is at least 95% over the course of 10 years (this is a very conservative estimate). By comparison, the failure rate of small businesses is 64% over 10 years. If the failure rate was the same, I would agree with you, but the numbers prove that MLMs are statistically a worse proposition than starting one's own business. Source (https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf)

Quote
If you're of the mindset that MLM's are bad because they prey on weak people - then there are 1M other things that we should remove from society because they prey on weak people.
Probably, but what's your point? "Let's not discuss why this one thing is bad because there are so many other bad things anyway"?

Quote
This entire site exists because most people can't figure out the difference between a need and a want which causes them to inevitably spend more than they need to because our entire society preys on that weakness.
Exactly. This site exists to help people getting out of that financially destructive behavior. Conversely, MLMs encourage financially destructive behavior on more than half of their participants.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreadmoose on June 01, 2017, 06:42:30 PM
Also, from my sister - who says this is why some MLMs, like LLR are different from other MLMs that are much closer to pyramid schemes:

"Here's an interesting statistic for your group. 70% of retailers with LLR do not grow teams. Only 5% of the people in this company hold "leadership" titles and we're expected to work hard for our bonus money. I think, that 70% number is important, because you don't have to participate in team growing to make an excellent living selling LLR.

I'm very sorry but this looks much more damning than what you've been posting before. The fact that 70% of the people that are in the MLM aren't even in leadership positions does nothing to calm the argument that only a small percentage succeed. It actually sounds a lot more like common MLM diversion tactics. Not to mention "make an excellent living selling LLR," what is this defined by? Because any numbers I can find for the representative's of LLR means the vast majority is below average wages.

Do more than 30% of the people that work for LLR make more than the median wage in America / Canada? This appears to be a resounding no, so anyone NOT in a leadership position is at a major disadvantage from becoming someone's downline.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-money-lularoe-consultants-make-2017-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-money-lularoe-consultants-make-2017-3)

"More than 80% of LuLaRoe's representatives generated less than $5,000 in sales last month"
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: PDXTabs on June 02, 2017, 12:30:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07aoF6OMF0U

https://youtu.be/a231RLKyfPw
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on June 02, 2017, 12:36:44 AM
Overall, I'm not a fan of the MLM concept. I do distinguish it from direct marketing, which can be successful for some IF they have a "sales" personality, a sizable personal network, and a lot of personal initiative. (A Realtor, for example, engages in a form of direct marketing.) Catalogue based marketing worked prior to the Internet going mainstream; I had a friend in high school who was a successful Regal dealer and who used her profits to pay her first year's worth of university tuition. I'm not sure anyone could stay in business now that it's so much cheaper and simpler to buy directly from manufacturers or wholesalers.

That being said, I believe direct marketing "opportunities" (complete with the cost of the start-up kit!) are being marketed unreasonably to people who lack the minimum qualifications to make a go of it. Cutco, for example, actively recruits students and other people who do NOT have big personal networks or the wherewithal to start and build a business. The people they recruit end up burning out their personal networks by asking friends and family to fork over big money for products that don't necessarily provide high value for the dollar. (YMMV with Cutco-- I've met people who love the knives and people who hate them). I like TupperWare and own a fair bit, which effortlessly outlasts the plastic crap I buy at the grocery store. So I foresee more of it in my future. Anything that can stand up to two decades of daily use really does provide value for the dollar. But I'm told that, in some markets, TupperWare salespeople had to buy their own kits and use them for demonstration purposes. That doesn't pass my smell test.

I don't have as big of a problem with, say, Kirby vacuum sales simply because the sales reps don't have to buy their kit and effectively "pay" for a job.

The problem with MLM, from my perspective, is the emphasis on the downline. Recruiting other people to sell the product in order to get a cut of what they and their recruits sell pretty much guarantees the local market will eventually saturate. That's not what legitimate franchise models do in other kinds of business.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on June 02, 2017, 01:08:50 AM
I have a big problem with the Kirby model. I've never had to phone the police to get an MLM distributor out of my house, but I'm not the only person I know who has had to do that to get a Kirby person to leave. They also set up appointments under false pretenses (carpet shampooing).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ooeei on June 02, 2017, 07:45:22 AM
(YMMV with Cutco-- I've met people who love the knives and people who hate them).

FWIW, the only people I've met who like Cutco are people who don't cook very often.  It's mostly rich people I know who have them, and they talk them up bigtime.  There's nothing magical about them, they're relatively low grade steel but can be sharpened if you don't get the serrated models. There's no "secret sauce" that makes them better than any other knives out there.

Any knife will be great if you sharpen it regularly, but I'd guess less than 5% of people I meet have ever sharpened their cooking knives.  Most just use insanely dull knives and think it's normal.  It's the frog in boiling water situation.  The knife starts out sharp, then gradually gets duller and before you know it you're using all of your weight to chop an onion.  It happens so gradually most people don't notice and if you ask them they'll tell you their knife is sharp.  I guess if their criteria for sharp is it will cut them if they mess up, they're right.

Cutco is great about marketing how their knives stay sharp forever, and people who own them repeat that nonsense to anyone they tell about them.  I'm 99% certain if you took those people who "love" their 10 year old Cutco knives and got them a Victorinox Chef's knife off of amazon and had them use both, they'd be shocked at how dull their Cutco actually is.  Or they wouldn't, because they've only used the Cutco once a year so it's still sharp.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: threefive on June 02, 2017, 09:50:01 AM
Cutco is great about marketing how their knives stay sharp forever, and people who own them repeat that nonsense to anyone they tell about them.  I'm 99% certain if you took those people who "love" their 10 year old Cutco knives and got them a Victorinox Chef's knife off of amazon and had them use both, they'd be shocked at how dull their Cutco actually is.  Or they wouldn't, because they've only used the Cutco once a year so it's still sharp.

I absolutely love my Victorinox knives, and they are stupid inexpensive. My wife got mad when I bought them because we hang our knives on a magnet, so they're very visible. She thought the NSF non-slip handles were "ugly" and wanted full tang with the pretty rivets and slippery annoying wood handles. Then she used them. Then she tried sharpening the crap low-end Henckel I had and cutting something with wet hands. Then went back to the Victorinox. Then realized I bought a superior set of knives for half the cost of pretty but useless garbage.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: twbird18 on June 02, 2017, 03:49:18 PM
I know because I've seen the $20K deposit before.
Well, I feel this is different from what you stated before. a 20K deposit represents 20K in revenue, not in profit.
In order to generate a 20K revenue, there has been inventory that needed to be purchased, an expensive subscription to the MLM in the first place (granted, just a one time expense), plus additional expenses such as the time spent promoting the business, possibly gas to go to events, etc.... I think I mentioned that above, but my little brother was also "making" $800 a month in an MLM. Except his expenses were $1000+ ...
For the sake of the discussion you should clarify which it is. Revenue or profit? What matters of course is the actual profit.

Quote
I would argue that 95% of people who try out MLM are unsuccessful because they have no idea what they are doing just like 95% of people couldn't start up their own business and run it successfully.
This is incorrect, and is exactly the kind of BS that MLMs love people to believe. There are studies that show that the failure rate in an MLM is at least 95% over the course of 10 years (this is a very conservative estimate). By comparison, the failure rate of small businesses is 64% over 10 years. If the failure rate was the same, I would agree with you, but the numbers prove that MLMs are statistically a worse proposition than starting one's own business. Source (https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf)

Quote
If you're of the mindset that MLM's are bad because they prey on weak people - then there are 1M other things that we should remove from society because they prey on weak people.
Probably, but what's your point? "Let's not discuss why this one thing is bad because there are so many other bad things anyway"?

Quote
This entire site exists because most people can't figure out the difference between a need and a want which causes them to inevitably spend more than they need to because our entire society preys on that weakness.
Exactly. This site exists to help people getting out of that financially destructive behavior. Conversely, MLMs encourage financially destructive behavior on more than half of their participants.

I'm done with this conversation - so thanks for that. I responded to answer 1 person's question about whether it was possible for 1 random person that they knew to make that much money in a month  in a company I'm familiar with (& FYI, they didn't specify whether the "making" was profit or revenue) because you told them it wasn't, which is false. I don't need to be convinced MLM's are bad in most cases.... I've  repeatedly said that I don't believe MLM's are a fantastic idea for most people.

I will clarify  the one point you asked for clarification on with the answer that I don't know - LLR profit is 50% on what is sold, but the people I am acquainted with who make $20K checks earn some part of that money from training bonuses(I don't know or care how that works), but as previously pointed out by another poster - the average trainer makes $4500 in bonus/mo. so one could guess that a $20K check is ~$12K profit less whatever additional they invest back into their business every month & any additional costs they're accruing such as shipping.  Additionally, a check isn't a total monthly payment - the end of month check is the bonus + whatever you sold most recently, but payments are made ever few days based on your sales activity so the deposits I've seen aren't a total monthly amount - beyond that I wouldn't know. I remember my sister explaining how often her sales money came in so she could purchase additional stock back in the beginning, but it's not something I recall in great detail. I generally don't ask people for their personal financial information - some people get excited & over-share (or I guess they live in dreamland where a large check will bring me over to their side, but I don't even wear LLR so I'm certainly not interested in selling it).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on June 02, 2017, 04:10:35 PM
I have a big problem with the Kirby model. I've never had to phone the police to get an MLM distributor out of my house, but I'm not the only person I know who has had to do that to get a Kirby person to leave. They also set up appointments under false pretenses (carpet shampooing).

Remember this fun discussion?

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/door-to-door-vacuum-sale-it-was-strangely-entertaining/ (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/door-to-door-vacuum-sale-it-was-strangely-entertaining/)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Mezzie on June 02, 2017, 04:51:04 PM
I just got my first invite to a LLR popup in my neighborhood. It had pictures, which was noce since I'd never seen the product, and.... wow, that is some LOUD clothing. :o

The person inviting wasn't pushy at all, so that was nice.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: lchu on June 02, 2017, 08:25:16 PM
On a separate note, most people i know who are into the MLM thing are really annoying about it for a year or so and then I think they realize they will not actually get rich or have a real business, and then quietly go into the night at let the "business" die. How long was this sneak attack person into the MLM thing for? Just curious

Wow, you're right on the money.  It took about a year and a half to reach the ultimate awkward sneak and block incident.

Weirdly enough, it started out kind of innocently.  She and my brother got married last summer and the dress she wanted was at David's Bridal -- they had a program with x number of bridesmaids buying a dress for at least x dollars resulted in x% off her wedding dress.  So, she figured out what she could afford to spend on her dress and made sure she had enough bridesmaids to hit the percentage off she needed to cover the rest.  Not super excited about getting asked to pay for an overpriced prom-esque dress in an ugly color just so she could get a discount on her stuff, but on the other hand, hey, she hit her financial objective.

Anyway, then her mom had started a cosmetics sales job, so she was getting free stuff from her mom for referring her friends for make-overs.  And then another friend was selling something else and convinced her to hold an in-house party in exchange for free stuff.  And then more friends, and that was how the first round of straight up sales parties were happening.  I think the first sneak attack parties were just sales consultants that advertised their marketing pitch that way: invite your friends over for a dinner party and serve all Tastefully Simple products or something.  And when those parties were better attended, she started sponsoring all of her social gatherings that way.

And then, well, I got nothing to explain how it escalated into the whole sneak and block incident.  I wouldn't have expected that kind of thing from her in a million years; nicest girl, helps everybody, etc etc.  Maybe she got used to getting things for free and got weird when the sources started to dry up?  Maybe the attention and freebies from the sales consultants made her feel special?  No idea...
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on June 06, 2017, 06:52:40 AM
MLM: Most Lose Money.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: cats on June 06, 2017, 10:04:17 AM
I think I mentioned the HS acquaintance who sells Amway on here already.  She's been selling it now for at least 10 years, we are now both 35.  She also works a "regular" job (not sure if it is FT or PT but she has definitely been working in an office setting of some sort continuously).  AND she runs some kind of side business related to a hobby of hers (which actually seems pretty cool/legit, though perhaps not a huge money maker).  So she has three "jobs", one in an office and two "businesses".  She's routinely hashtagging her posts with things like #entrepreneur and has been for yeaaaaaars. At some point she messaged me with some vague "business opportunity" that I assume was an attempt to get me into her Amway downline.

Well, today she posts that her Dave Ramsey debt snowball has resulted in her paying off her car loan in full.  Okay, great!  But seriously, how is someone who is such a successsful "entrepreneur" still wandering around with a car loan???  Well, lots of people think car loans are NBD, maybe she had some crazy low interest that meant having a loan actually made financial sense, but she decided to go ahead and pay it off just to have one less thing to deal with or just to give herself the mental satisfaction of having less debt.  Right?

Then I read the comments and someone asks what the snowball will be targeting next and she responds that she has two CREDIT CARDS that will be getting paid off later this month.  So, on the one hand, awesome, you are paying off a credit card debt in the near future.  But on the other hand...how successful has all that 10+ years of entrepreneuring really been if you racked up 2 credit card debts in the first place?  She doesn't give specifics on numbers and I am guessing they are not huge if she's going to kill them within the next couple of weeks, but it still just makes me scratch my head.  From what she posts on FB her lifestyle is not uber-frugal but it's also not crazy lavish.  Just not seeing anything to convince me that Amway is a path to financial freedom.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: englishteacheralex on June 06, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
Just watched an AWESOME documentary on Netflix about Herbalife called Betting on Zero.

It helped me understand people's motives for getting sucked into MLMs. It also helped me understand the brainwashed nature of people in MLMs--sunk cost fallacy is part of it, and also just the difficulty in feeling like a fool with a garage full of unsold product. I think there's a lot of shame involved. 

This also helps me understand why people post so maniacally on fb about their MLM doings. These scams play into so many American dream narratives and I think the need for affirmation must be overwhelming.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LifeHappens on June 06, 2017, 11:56:31 AM
I've had many, many MLM encounters over the years. I am from the Land of Amway, so I became familiar with the phrase "pyramid scheme" when I was just a youngin'. Went through the house party phase when my newly married friends were holding Pampered Chef and candle parties so they could furnish their homes at a discount. One of my cousins sold Mary Kay for a hot minute. Now the damn things have moved onto Facebook and you can't get away!

I have a long time friend and a close family member into the BeachBody thing. Friend sent me a looong PM about how she was having a "sale" on her "product," which of course if overpriced protein powder. I responded with a long, friendly message asking about her kids. She, of course, did not reply.

I'm also casual acquaintances with a couple that are super high up in Isagenix. They are actually an interesting case study of how you CAN be successful with these types of products if you do everything just right. They are a super fit couple who have been in fitness competitions for a long time. They already had a huge network of health & fitness type people. They have thousands of Facebook "friends" and all those friends are healthy and beautiful. Basically, they are a walking advertisement for fitness products and were just looking for the right thing to sell.

I'm disgusted by the price of the products and the pseudo-science they use in their sales pitches, but they genuinely seem to be making bank off that stuff.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on June 06, 2017, 01:14:05 PM
Not all "social" marketing schemes are piramid schemes. While I agree that any "party" where guest feel pressured to buy is worthy of the wall of shame, I think the piramid scheme brush being used a little too broadly. To identify piramid schemes, you really have to look at the compensation plan (if commissions from direct sales are small, but compensation for building a downline is high, you're looking at a piramid scheme). Usually what the representative talks about makes it easy to guess what the compensation plan says, without having to read all that fine print. I absolutely hate it when all the representatives really want to talk about is the business (Monavie, Melaleuca, LIFE Leadership), sometimes I enjoy interacting with the representatives when the presentation is actually about the product (AVON, Pampered Chef, Stampin' Up, Thrive, Doterra). Still, they're all consumer sucka priced and I absolutely hate the way people feel like they are expected to buy something (if the host is really your friend they shouldn't care).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: eddiejoe on June 06, 2017, 03:46:14 PM
My girlfriend has a high paying corporate job. A friend from college randomly messaged her on FB really wanting to schedule a time to "catch up". So she moved her schedule around to take their phone call, and sure enough it was a MLM pitch. My gf politely declined the offer (citing she hardly has any free time as it is) and magically never heard from the "friend" again. She was upset afterwards, because she had to sacrifice her lunch break to take the call and she legitimately thought they were going to catch up and talk. 

In college I had a random person call me up trying to recruit for some apparent MLM scheme. They said within the first two minutes "I think you are PERFECT for this opportunity!!" I replied "Do you have my resume? How do you know I'm perfect?"The person seemed flustered and said "no, but (acquaintance I haven't heard from in years) spoke highly of you." The call ended shortly afterwards. I was 21 years old at the time with no sales experience, how was I perfect??
 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Sydneystache on June 06, 2017, 04:00:49 PM
Sad how MLM schemes disrupt relationships. Have another one, I invited a long-term friend for a catch-up. She couldn't come along because her friend was having a tupperware party that night. I have never attended tupperware parties but several close friends have invited me to them. Sigh. I want to catch up with YOU not listen to you sell yourself out or sell out our friendship.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: yourusernamehere on June 06, 2017, 06:03:25 PM
My girlfriend has a high paying corporate job. A friend from college randomly messaged her on FB really wanting to schedule a time to "catch up". So she moved her schedule around to take their phone call, and sure enough it was a MLM pitch. My gf politely declined the offer (citing she hardly has any free time as it is) and magically never heard from the "friend" again. She was upset afterwards, because she had to sacrifice her lunch break to take the call and she legitimately thought they were going to catch up and talk. 
 
I've been burned by this too. Now when I get some kind of contact from someone I haven't heard from in a while, I always start with "this better not be about a 'business opportunity' ;-)"

Usually I don't hear from them again.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: eddiejoe on June 07, 2017, 07:30:00 AM
Sad how MLM schemes disrupt relationships. Have another one, I invited a long-term friend for a catch-up. She couldn't come along because her friend was having a tupperware party that night. I have never attended tupperware parties but several close friends have invited me to them. Sigh. I want to catch up with YOU not listen to you sell yourself out or sell out our friendship.

I would take it a step further than "disrupt". In the name of (measly) short term profits, they do lasting damage to relationships. If you reach out to me and try to pitch your MLM scheme, you can be 99.9% sure I will never help you out professionally even if it's years later. It's not that I'm holding a grudge, your judgement led you to be involved in a financially charged cult that sees friendships as a means to make a quick buck. Sorry, I'm not sticking my name and reputation on a reference for you.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: NorthernDreamer on June 16, 2017, 07:54:39 AM
For the first time, it has happened. I got a friend request on FB from a high school acquaintance. Haven't spoken to her since high school but we are both living in the same city right now. I creep her page and she sells for not one but TWO direct sales companies. Essential oils and weight loss crap. OH JOY. I accepted it and am counting down how long it takes her to message me. Any guesses?

Also she seems to post a lot of "inspirational" crap on her timeline that only ONE person is liking over and over. "Who would like to start removing toxins from their homes to create a safer, healthier environment for their family?"  I am thinking it is her "upline mentor". Grabbing my popcorn...
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: SunshineAZ on June 16, 2017, 08:51:47 AM
Ok, I have an interesting story related to this topic.   Relevant information:  In the 1970s my parents were in one of the original pyramid schemes and I think they even made a little money on it.  I was young (8-10ish), but I remember hearing them talk about it and I remember hearing on the news that they were making them illegal.  I think I may have even asked my parents about it and they gave me a vague understanding of the issue because I was worried they were going to get in trouble.

It is now 1984, I am just graduated from high school and looking through the PennySaver for jobs.  I see an ad for a sales job and call the number.  They tell me to come in for an interview and give me a time and address.  I show up and there are several other applicants there, maybe 15 people.  We are herded into a conference room where we are told about some great product and how we can buy in with our starter kit and get other people to sell to make more money, etc.  Now, all this is triggering my memory of the pyramid scheme, just with a product attached, so when the presenter asks for questions, I raise my hand and asked "Isn't this kinda like a pyramid scheme?"  Now, I was fully expecting him to have a good explanation as to how this was NOT a pyramid scheme, however, what he said was "you can leave, NOW" and pointed to the door.  As a naive and somewhat shy 18 year old, I was very embarrassed and shocked to be so abruptly told to leave, and I remember sitting in my car very shaken for a while before being able to drive home.  Afterwards, I realized that I had basically unmasked their scam and that is why he was so angry, but that was definitely not my intention at the time.  I am glad that I dodged that bullet though. 

I guess they have just gotten better at it since then. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TaraB on June 16, 2017, 09:55:06 AM
At a local summer festival 2 weeks ago, I was shocked at how many of the booths were occupied by MLM folks. We went into one tent that had a lot of clothing (and a prime location next to the beer garden), and once we realized it was Lularoe, we dropped it like it was hot. We couldn't get away fast enough!

Unless you're a local artist/business, if I can't price-check your shit on Amazon, I don't want it.

I'm ashamed to admit I did Amway for about 3 months in college, mostly because I was obsessed with the man who recruited me. That shit is some SERIOUS brainwashing. (When he invited me for coffee, I thought it was a date. Boy was I wrong!)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on June 16, 2017, 09:59:17 AM
As a naive and somewhat shy 18 year old

Congrats on realizing what it was and having the guts to call them out.  At that age I was just looking for a job even it was a revolving door of high school labor and didn't ask questions.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: FiguringItOut on June 16, 2017, 10:48:52 AM
I'm ashamed to admit I did Amway for about 3 months in college, mostly because I was obsessed with the man who recruited me. That shit is some SERIOUS brainwashing. (When he invited me for coffee, I thought it was a date. Boy was I wrong!)

This!  To the last word!  And when I found out he was married, I still signed up.  I even let them (him and wife) do a presentation for my parents and then I recruited one person for my downline.  I earned a total of $6 and never cashed that check.  4 months later I was done. 

But oh boy was he cute!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BFGirl on June 20, 2017, 03:21:31 PM
Jamberry nail wraps.  I have managed to escape for the last couple of years despite a couple of people trying to sell to me, but got a longtime friend doing the hard sale and having a party...I think I'll make sure that I eat/drink enough to cover the minimum I can get away with buying.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on June 20, 2017, 03:50:43 PM
My Mom was reading some Usborne books to my daughter this weekend.
"Do you buy your books from your cousin?"

Um, nope. These books cost me a quarter at a garage sale. I'm not paying MLM prices so she can be #girlboss.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on June 20, 2017, 11:03:17 PM
My Mom was reading some Usborne books to my daughter this weekend.
"Do you buy your books from your cousin?"

Um, nope. These books cost me a quarter at a garage sale. I'm not paying MLM prices so she can be #girlboss.

I got asked through a Facebook mass-message to attend a book exchange party prior to Christmas last year. Did I dodge a bullet and this was what I was being offered?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on June 20, 2017, 11:21:42 PM
My Mom was reading some Usborne books to my daughter this weekend.
"Do you buy your books from your cousin?"

Um, nope. These books cost me a quarter at a garage sale. I'm not paying MLM prices so she can be #girlboss.

I got asked through a Facebook mass-message to attend a book exchange party prior to Christmas last year. Did I dodge a bullet and this was what I was being offered?

Tough to say...
Book exchange kind of sounds like everyone brings and trades. But a book party may be the MLM.  Good books, but way over priced.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: tarheeldan on June 20, 2017, 11:55:14 PM
Ugh. Someone on Facebook just used my friend's son's disability as a tool/pretense to invite her to an Usborne online "party".
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Dicey on June 21, 2017, 08:01:57 AM
I know because I've seen the $20K deposit before.
Well, I feel this is different from what you stated before. a 20K deposit represents 20K in revenue, not in profit.
In order to generate a 20K revenue, there has been inventory that needed to be purchased, an expensive subscription to the MLM in the first place (granted, just a one time expense), plus additional expenses such as the time spent promoting the business, possibly gas to go to events, etc.... I think I mentioned that above, but my little brother was also "making" $800 a month in an MLM. Except his expenses were $1000+ ...
For the sake of the discussion you should clarify which it is. Revenue or profit? What matters of course is the actual profit.

Quote
I would argue that 95% of people who try out MLM are unsuccessful because they have no idea what they are doing just like 95% of people couldn't start up their own business and run it successfully.
This is incorrect, and is exactly the kind of BS that MLMs love people to believe. There are studies that show that the failure rate in an MLM is at least 95% over the course of 10 years (this is a very conservative estimate). By comparison, the failure rate of small businesses is 64% over 10 years. If the failure rate was the same, I would agree with you, but the numbers prove that MLMs are statistically a worse proposition than starting one's own business. Source (https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf)

Quote
If you're of the mindset that MLM's are bad because they prey on weak people - then there are 1M other things that we should remove from society because they prey on weak people.
Probably, but what's your point? "Let's not discuss why this one thing is bad because there are so many other bad things anyway"?

Quote
This entire site exists because most people can't figure out the difference between a need and a want which causes them to inevitably spend more than they need to because our entire society preys on that weakness.
Exactly. This site exists to help people getting out of that financially destructive behavior. Conversely, MLMs encourage financially destructive behavior on more than half of their participants.

I'm done with this conversation - so thanks for that. I responded to answer 1 person's question about whether it was possible for 1 random person that they knew to make that much money in a month  in a company I'm familiar with (& FYI, they didn't specify whether the "making" was profit or revenue) because you told them it wasn't, which is false. I don't need to be convinced MLM's are bad in most cases.... I've  repeatedly said that I don't believe MLM's are a fantastic idea for most people.

I will clarify  the one point you asked for clarification on with the answer that I don't know - LLR profit is 50% on what is sold, but the people I am acquainted with who make $20K checks earn some part of that money from training bonuses(I don't know or care how that works), but as previously pointed out by another poster - the average trainer makes $4500 in bonus/mo. so one could guess that a $20K check is ~$12K profit less whatever additional they invest back into their business every month & any additional costs they're accruing such as shipping.  Additionally, a check isn't a total monthly payment - the end of month check is the bonus + whatever you sold most recently, but payments are made ever few days based on your sales activity so the deposits I've seen aren't a total monthly amount - beyond that I wouldn't know. I remember my sister explaining how often her sales money came in so she could purchase additional stock back in the beginning, but it's not something I recall in great detail. I generally don't ask people for their personal financial information - some people get excited & over-share (or I guess they live in dreamland where a large check will bring me over to their side, but I don't even wear LLR so I'm certainly not interested in selling it).
Just wanted to say thank you for your input. Sorry not everyone understood your point. It's possible to make money, but it's a LOT of work, and you're basically chasing a fad, no matter what kind of network you might manage to build up.

Funny, in reading this thread, I remember telling someone that I'd noticed on a trip to the Farmer's Market in Aspen that I was hopelessly out of it because everyone was wearing leggings to my good ol' comfy blue jeans. Whoever it was mentioned LLR. I had no idea who/what that was, so I just kind of ignored it. I guess maybe I dodged a bullet, just because I don't care if I'm the worst-dressed (tongue firmly planted in cheek) girl at the Aspen Farmer's Market.

Then what, pray tell was I doing in Aspen, you might well ask? Because DSD lives there and more importantly, the grandbaby. Over a barrel, I tell you, over a barrel.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Alim Nassor on June 21, 2017, 11:40:48 PM
I remember being invited to a Saladmaster party when my ex wife and I were both early 20's with 2 kids in diapers and didn't have a pot to piss in, and they were trying to sell us a couple of grand worth of cookware.  I enjoyed the dinner they cooked, but convincing them that I couldn't even buy the potato peeler gave me heartburn.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: marble_faun on June 23, 2017, 05:17:54 PM
Funny, in reading this thread, I remember telling someone that I'd noticed on a trip to the Farmer's Market in Aspen that I was hopelessly out of it because everyone was wearing leggings to my good ol' comfy blue jeans. Whoever it was mentioned LLR. I had no idea who/what that was, so I just kind of ignored it. I guess maybe I dodged a bullet, just because I don't care if I'm the worst-dressed (tongue firmly planted in cheek) girl at the Aspen Farmer's Market.

Yeah, if I hadn't read this thread, I would have no idea what LuLaRoe was or that lots of random people are now in the business of selling loud-printed leggings.

Yesterday I walked by a rack of multi-printed leggings for sale on the curb, $1.99 each. I assumed they were LLR cast-offs. Can't imagine they'd be much fun to wear in a city summer heat wave.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Meowmalade on June 28, 2017, 02:48:49 PM
I have a friend who's selling Rodan + Fields.  She posted today:

Why am I obsessed with this? Because six months ago I could hardly get the tips of my lashes through the eyelash curler and was quickly racking up $1,500+ a year trying to make my lashes "normal." ... After six months on Lash Boost, two tubes and one coat of mascara, these are 100% my own lashes! And I've spent less than $300 total because one tube lasted me up to 90 days.

I *really* hope she didn't spend that much and is just trying to set an expectation for her clients so that her products seem relatively cheap.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mustachepungoeshere on June 29, 2017, 02:44:39 AM
Just watched an AWESOME documentary on Netflix about Herbalife called Betting on Zero.

It helped me understand people's motives for getting sucked into MLMs. It also helped me understand the brainwashed nature of people in MLMs--sunk cost fallacy is part of it, and also just the difficulty in feeling like a fool with a garage full of unsold product. I think there's a lot of shame involved. 

This also helps me understand why people post so maniacally on fb about their MLM doings. These scams play into so many American dream narratives and I think the need for affirmation must be overwhelming.

Thanks for mentioning this. I just came across it on Netflix, watching now.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on June 30, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
SIL posted to facebook that she needs to place an order to maintain her level of "sales consultant" with her MLM product.

Meanwhile, I am happy that her 15 year old nephew (my son) did not get another pink fluffy, scented stuffed animal for his birthday this month like last year (selected from her MLM list, of course).  I think he received nothing, which I think is awesome.

Gah,  the kid has asthma and she sells scented products and candles.  He does not want scented teddy bears, that he feels he needs to keep on display for when she or his cousins come over!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: chasingthegoodlife on July 01, 2017, 05:47:56 PM
I've been captivated by this thread - not totally sure why, I guess part of the attraction is watching a train wreck (sneak attacks? yikes!) as well as confirmation of my bias against these schemes.

My high school girlfriends were really into the home sales parties - Tupperware, underwear, clothes, bath products - which I attended just often enough to be polite and always bought one item. That wasn't TOO bad - none of them were consultants themselves so there was a bit of variety and although I wouldn't have bought the products otherwise I mentally filed them under 'cost of friendship' expenses like sponsoring a friend's charity fun run or buying their band's CD.

Later on, several of my sister's friends got involved with Landmark Forum (a series of 'personal development' workshops where you are heavily pressured to pay for additional 'training' to become a facilitator and to recruit your friends drawing on your knowledge of their vulnerabilities which is .. uugghh). I was living overseas at the time, and agonized over carefully worded emails warning her not to get involved without coming across as a bossy older sister she would want to rebel against. Luckily, she was smarter than that and her mates eventually drifted away from it too, though several thousand dollars poorer.

These days none of my nearest and dearest are involved in MLM but there is a fair bit of low level promotion from acquaintances on Facebook for Scentsy, LipSense, Jamberry etc. I don't really mind as it's easy enough to ignore. What I find uncomfortable is an old friend who has gotten deeply involved in either Amway or a very similar MLM and posts constant cryptic messages about living her '10/10 Diamond Lifestyle', advertorial for some kind of energy drink, and encouragements to contact her privately about an amazing 'business opportunity'. Shortly after she started posting about these amazing (unnamed) conferences she was attending she sent me a friendly private message that I never responded to. Ordinarily I would have been thrilled to catch up and talk about old times but I could see that this was headed towards her offering me an amazing opportunity for success, and it was just too awkward. Sad.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on July 02, 2017, 12:04:15 AM
^^  I had a friend that I was out of touch with for about 2 years call me up and ask me to meet to discuss an un-named opportunity.
I assumed that it was to sell me life insurance, and I asked him flat out if it was.    Of course it wasn't but when we met, it was Amway.

The unnamed pitches are the worst.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Kalergie on July 02, 2017, 01:33:51 AM
I highly recommend Season 2 Episode 22 of King of Queens.
Doug and Carrie have dinner with their annoying neighbors and Doug gets involved in a pyramid scheme when Tim starts convincing him on how much of a great idea it is. Doug doesn't realize it's really a pyramid scheme, doesn't believe Carrie when she tells him and even gets Arthur involved in it as well. Super funny and totally relatable.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: tarheeldan on July 02, 2017, 05:06:15 AM

Later on, several of my sister's friends got involved with Landmark Forum (a series of 'personal development' workshops where you are heavily pressured to pay for additional 'training' to become a facilitator and to recruit your friends drawing on your knowledge of their vulnerabilities which is .. uugghh). I was living overseas at the time, and agonized over carefully worded emails warning her not to get involved without coming across as a bossy older sister she would want to rebel against. Luckily, she was smarter than that and her mates eventually drifted away from it too, though several thousand dollars poorer.

Glad it didn't get too bad and she got out. It can get really weird in Landmark, Lifespring, Sterling, and similar LGATs:
https://www.culteducation.com/group/1020-landmark-education.html

A good friend of mine got sucked into Landmark. Hopefully he gets over it too, but it's been over a year.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on July 03, 2017, 12:03:35 PM

Later on, several of my sister's friends got involved with Landmark Forum (a series of 'personal development' workshops where you are heavily pressured to pay for additional 'training' to become a facilitator and to recruit your friends drawing on your knowledge of their vulnerabilities which is .. uugghh). I was living overseas at the time, and agonized over carefully worded emails warning her not to get involved without coming across as a bossy older sister she would want to rebel against. Luckily, she was smarter than that and her mates eventually drifted away from it too, though several thousand dollars poorer.

Glad it didn't get too bad and she got out. It can get really weird in Landmark, Lifespring, Sterling, and similar LGATs:
https://www.culteducation.com/group/1020-landmark-education.html

A good friend of mine got sucked into Landmark. Hopefully he gets over it too, but it's been over a year.

Oh drat. I thought they'd died out after 9/11. I had a peripheral encounter with them back around Y2K through a charity I was trying to save. It wasn't a pretty sight.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: caherriman on July 03, 2017, 12:53:15 PM
I will say that I do sell for a company. I love it. I do not push the product on people, I have a separate Facebook page for it and ask before adding anyone. I am doing it for fun. Will I get rich? Heck no! Am I having fun? Yes. And I get some of my things I like to have for free or half price...bonus for me :) I loved reading all these stories though!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Dr.Jeckyl on July 11, 2017, 11:07:37 AM
Ughhh....

I guess I'm a bit into a pyramid scheme myself. After all when I put more money into my index funds they then create employees (dividends and returns) and then those employees bring in even more employees.

But seriously, my old neighbor is seriously into these. The wife and I went to one of her wine and cheese parties and bought a couple bottles of wine, why not. But since then she has gotten into some company that signs you up for utilities, cable companies, and cell phones. She told my wife how much she could save us on our phone bill and my wife replied that would mean we'd almost pay nothing for our plans (pre-paid). She then invited my wife over to hang out. My wife then got the hard pitch about finance and helping us out of debt. To this my wife replied that we don't have debt (we do but how do you justify paying off student loans that are 2.5%) and that I could teach her how to get out of debt, invest, and retire early. She is now with some company that gives you a Jeep and "pays for it". She is always posting about insurance and financial planning on FB.

ooooh,  can you share what the company name is?

Super sloooow to reply, sorry. It's Tranont. I see posts on FB all the time but the only replies I see are from others with their bedazzled Jeeps.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ixtap on July 11, 2017, 03:44:30 PM
SIL seems to have moved passed MLM and onto selling crafts. So, only about $1k in machines and supplies, and no cult like testimonials, so far.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: AnnaGrowsAMustache on July 11, 2017, 06:42:41 PM
I always attend these parties. You often get a free gift just for attending, not to mention a few wines and a bit of chit chat. If I really want something, I host a party myself and get it for free. Never spent a dime of anything myself.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on July 11, 2017, 06:54:49 PM
SIL seems to have moved passed MLM and onto selling crafts. So, only about $1k in machines and supplies, and no cult like testimonials, so far.

One of my friends is doing this, but she got everything second hand for about $200 and managed to sell her first couple projects for about $100.  Thankfully she's under no illusions about this being anything but a hobby that sometimes makes money (it's quite time consuming).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 12, 2017, 12:46:18 PM
Thanks for posting this. I have the same problem. Since I am a stay at home mom, a lot of other women see me as an easy target for MLM. They can't imagine why I don't work a home-based business. About 60% of other moms I know are in MLM. No joke.

I also am a member of "mothers of multiples" and I found out most of the moms join just to have access to a wider network of women to prey on, to pitch their business to. Sadly, I joined just to make friends. :(

I had to block one woman from facebook, email and my phone number. She harassed me via all three. When I told her nicely that I wasn't interested she said "there's no need for you to be so mean about it". I was nice, but I didn't sugar coat it too much or my meaning would have been lost.

They don't even want to sell products, and in fact, many will get upset if you only act interested in buying a cosmetic item or piece of jewelry. Their end goal is to recruit. That is where the big money is made.  I tend to feel uncomfortable around people who want access to my bank account, credit card, etc.

I know many intelligent and nice people who get mixed up in these. I don't know why.  One of the main flaws of MLM is that you recruit your own competition. This makes no sense, if you think about it. Why recruit other people to compete against you?  Also, most MLMs become a saturated market after several years. Mary Kay is a good example of a saturated market.

The free car is a lie. It is a leased car with an option to buy. The person can only drive the car as long as they maintain their sales at a certain level. If their sales drop, they have to give the car back. Of course, they can always buy it. With their own money.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 12, 2017, 12:47:57 PM
I always attend these parties. You often get a free gift just for attending, not to mention a few wines and a bit of chit chat. If I really want something, I host a party myself and get it for free. Never spent a dime of anything myself.

You're lucky. I've never gotten the free gift that was offered, they seem to forget about it. And they don't serve food at these parties. I guess that would cut into their overhead costs too much, to buy a bag of chips and a case of beer.

But if you're getting wine, you're doing good!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on July 12, 2017, 01:02:28 PM
Thanks for posting this. I have the same problem. Since I am a stay at home mom, a lot of other women see me as an easy target for MLM. They can't imagine why I don't work a home-based business. About 60% of other moms I know are in MLM. No joke.


That doesn't suprise me. I have a friend that recently became a SAHM and mentioned how it seems like all of her friends are involved in a MLM.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 12, 2017, 01:23:28 PM
Thanks for posting this. I have the same problem. Since I am a stay at home mom, a lot of other women see me as an easy target for MLM. They can't imagine why I don't work a home-based business. About 60% of other moms I know are in MLM. No joke.


That doesn't suprise me. I have a friend that recently became a SAHM and mentioned how it seems like all of her friends are involved in a MLM.

Yes. They're all involved in MLM.  Some have more education than I do, and have worked in more professional careers than I have. So I wonder why they don't recognize the pyramid structure of these businesses, and understand economic terms like "saturated market".  If I look around and see everyone on my block is opening up a lemonade stand on their front lawn, I wouldn't open one up too. Common sense would tell me that the competition is too fierce already.

I am not the brightest cookie out there but I've never gotten involved in MLM.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on July 12, 2017, 02:21:55 PM
Overheard on my LinkedIn page. I wasn't sure whether to post this here or on the Facebook thread due to the content.

Quote
Who wants a job making $75k a year?

Be careful how the income is calculated, here's what that actually means:
-$75k salary position working 50-75 hours per week (sometimes more)
-Equals $30/hour
-$15k in taxes, $60k take home, $5k per month
-$2000 rent/mortgage
-$400 car payment
-$250 auto insurance
-$320 health insurance
-$500 meals/entertainment
-$500 utilities & internet
-$300 gas and maintenance
-$120 cell phone

$568 left over to cover anything from credit card debt, student loans, medical expenses, child expenses, or this thing called retirement savings...
Are you living paycheck to paycheck, or can you skip a paycheck and be okay for the next 3-6 months? More than 80% of Americans don't have an extra $500 at the end of the month, are you one of them?

Congratulations! You're surviving...barely.

Why not find a way to do something one time and get paid month after month? Of course it will start small, but consistently your income will grow for the future; or did someone tell you that you can get rich overnight?

The writer of that is a senior officer of a MLM company that sells residential and business services such as phone/internet/security/payment processing.  I didn't even realize he was pitching an MLM until I looked him up and found him and his company on Youtube.  183 comments on that LinkedIn posting and they're evenly split between: dude, your cost of living numbers make no sense, What are you selling?, and What's your point?  Only a handful took the bait and talked about how life sucks and you can't get ahead.  The Youtube video is him accepting a regional vice president promotion at a massive conference and the whole production (especially his acceptance speech) looks just like your normal MLM commercial. From that video I went to his company's Youtube channel and right there in front they have a disclaimer that no, they're not a pyramid scheme, they're an MLM! It's totally different!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: eddiejoe on July 13, 2017, 06:58:12 AM

I know many intelligent and nice people who get mixed up in these. I don't know why. One of the main flaws of MLM is that you recruit your own competition. This makes no sense, if you think about it. Why recruit other people to compete against you


Thank you!! I have been trying to find the correct words to articulate this thought. If you had a regular sells job where you were making bank off commission and your boss sent a memo we have to bring in 500 extra people to sell the same products you are selling would that make you severely disgruntled?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Proud Foot on July 13, 2017, 07:59:06 AM

I know many intelligent and nice people who get mixed up in these. I don't know why. One of the main flaws of MLM is that you recruit your own competition. This makes no sense, if you think about it. Why recruit other people to compete against you


Thank you!! I have been trying to find the correct words to articulate this thought. If you had a regular sells job where you were making bank off commission and your boss sent a memo we have to bring in 500 extra people to sell the same products you are selling would that make you severely disgruntled?

But that's the "beauty" of them! You sign them up under yourself and then make a commission off of their sales, their enrollment fee, their required minimum purchases without having to do anything. As long as they aren't trying to steal your customers then you win! [/sarc]

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 13, 2017, 08:33:38 AM
Mary Kay Cosmetics is headquartered in my city. There are probably more Mary Kay sales reps in Dallas, than anywhere else in the United States. Most women I know have been involved in MK, either hosting parties or working as sales reps. If they realized how saturated the market is here in Dallas, they'd understand why they will go broke in the business eventually. Most wind up trying to sell off their inventory on ebay. Just go to ebay. Almost 10,000 listings for MK Cosmetics.

Many women wind up buying more inventory to get bonuses and to get to the next level. They are basically selling this stuff to themselves.  They have massive credit card debt, in some cases. I knew a man who was in Mary Kay and he drove the company car. It seemed he was successful, but I asked a friend about him later on and she told me his home had been foreclosed on.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on July 13, 2017, 03:53:51 PM
I know many intelligent and nice people who get mixed up in these. I don't know why.  One of the main flaws of MLM is that you recruit your own competition. This makes no sense, if you think about it. Why recruit other people to compete against you?  Also, most MLMs become a saturated market after several years. Mary Kay is a good example of a saturated market.


Aside from competing in a saturated sales market (assuming you even know how to "market" in the first place), the only way to really have sustainable profit in these businesses is the recruitment (down trace? down stream?) where you're making money off of other folks' work. There simply aren't enough people in the world for this to work for more than a handful of others.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 15, 2017, 11:02:38 AM
My biggest issue with MLM people has always been, they get their feelings hurt when you tell them "no" unless you sugarcoat it to the point where the meaning of "no" is completely lost and they think you're saying "maybe". But it baffles me how anyone can be a so-called businessperson and yet, get their feelings hurt so easily.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frugledoc on July 15, 2017, 11:51:30 AM
I guess I'm a bit of a jackass but I wouldn't mind if somebody got their feelings hurt in that situation.

Anyway, "hurt feelings" are just another sales tactic.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 15, 2017, 12:56:05 PM
If they want to do well in sales, they'll have to be nicer to people themselves I guess.

It's kinda funny I've known people who didn't like me (and even admitted it, in some cases). Then, they got involved in MLM and were all of a sudden sending me friend requests on FB or trying to get to know me, or inviting me to "parties".  I'd rather they be honest with themselves and stick to their original feelings towards me.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Kaydedid on July 21, 2017, 08:22:04 AM
Just got a FB message from a friend inviting me to an online mlm party.  She's trying to use this for a legit side hustle, and I hope she makes a ton.  However, I politely declined her party invite and told her about the secret to our financial survival-MMM!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: infogoon on July 21, 2017, 10:13:57 AM
No, wife of an acquaintance I see every year or two, I don't want to host a "party" at my house so you can sell childrens' books. We all have library cards already, thanks.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BFGirl on July 21, 2017, 01:02:13 PM
Just got a FB message from a friend inviting me to an online mlm party.  She's trying to use this for a legit side hustle, and I hope she makes a ton.  However, I politely declined her party invite and told her about the secret to our financial survival-MMM!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

The only benefit I ever saw to these was the "party" part.   I just don't get how an online event is a "party".  It's a promotion, not a party. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on July 22, 2017, 10:43:47 AM
Just got a FB message from a friend inviting me to an online mlm party.  She's trying to use this for a legit side hustle, and I hope she makes a ton.  However, I politely declined her party invite and told her about the secret to our financial survival-MMM!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

The only benefit I ever saw to these was the "party" part.   I just don't get how an online event is a "party".  It's a promotion, not a party.

Party=social event with no pressure to buy something.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 22, 2017, 10:52:10 AM
No, wife of an acquaintance I see every year or two, I don't want to host a "party" at my house so you can sell childrens' books. We all have library cards already, thanks.

I've already been pressured to buy Usborne books, and it's a one year contract, I believe, where you pay around $50 a month and they ship books to you.  MLMs are getting worse these days with trying to rope customers into long term contracts, rather than just allowing them to make a one time purchase. Once you're in a contract, very hard to get out of it.

Like you, I cannot imagine spending $50 a month on children's books when we have a library card. And it's free.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on July 22, 2017, 10:56:34 AM
No, wife of an acquaintance I see every year or two, I don't want to host a "party" at my house so you can sell childrens' books. We all have library cards already, thanks.

I've already been pressured to buy Usborne books, and it's a one year contract, I believe, where you pay around $50 a month and they ship books to you.  MLMs are getting worse these days with trying to rope customers into long term contracts, rather than just allowing them to make a one time purchase. Once you're in a contract, very hard to get out of it.

Like you, I cannot imagine spending $50 a month on children's books when we have a library card. And it's free.

It makes sense that the concept would go in that direction. If they can't convince you to buy enough of their product with actual business skill, they'll just trap you.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 22, 2017, 12:56:07 PM

It makes sense that the concept would go in that direction. If they can't convince you to buy enough of their product with actual business skill, they'll just trap you.

That's exactly what they do. Trap people into contracts and monthly billing to a credit card. Many people don't understand or read the fine print that it's a contract. And that is why they won't sell to anyone who doesn't have a credit card.  I often lie and tell them, oh gosh, I have bad credit and had to cut up all my cards. This is a good way to get them to leave you alone.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Bracken_Joy on July 22, 2017, 09:16:18 PM
UGHHHH. Wife of a friend messaged me on FB out of the blue the other day. Started with "Hey Sweetie" (in no context would she ever call me Sweetie. Neither would most people, for that matter. I am fairly tall and a bit blunt, I don't come across as a 'sweetie') and then followed it with her "sales" to help her keep her "selling level" and stuff. Another conservative Christian SAHM falls prey to the MLM kingdom. I replied and told her that I had zero interest, and did not want any calls, FB contact, group invites, or invites to "parties" to do with any sort of direct selling like that. She took it surprisingly well, didn't do the 'feeling hurt' route mentioned previously that seems SO common. Interesting someone mentioned this as a sales tactic- I hadn't thought about it, but that *really* fits my experiences.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ShoulderThingThatGoesUp on July 23, 2017, 05:15:53 AM
Thanks for posting this. I have the same problem. Since I am a stay at home mom, a lot of other women see me as an easy target for MLM. They can't imagine why I don't work a home-based business. About 60% of other moms I know are in MLM. No joke.


That doesn't suprise me. I have a friend that recently became a SAHM and mentioned how it seems like all of her friends are involved in a MLM.

Yes. They're all involved in MLM.  Some have more education than I do, and have worked in more professional careers than I have. So I wonder why they don't recognize the pyramid structure of these businesses, and understand economic terms like "saturated market".  If I look around and see everyone on my block is opening up a lemonade stand on their front lawn, I wouldn't open one up too. Common sense would tell me that the competition is too fierce already.

I am not the brightest cookie out there but I've never gotten involved in MLM.

My wife is a SAHM and helps organize a local Meetup group for those with little kids. She has to kick MLM-ers out sometimes, and the confusing thing is, why not come to some events before trying to sell crap? At least put in the minimum effort, and maybe your kids will have fun, because people do join these things on purpose to make friends.

My wife didn't enjoy the local mothers of multiples group either, though I don't think anybody tried to sell her anything. I think she was weirded out that nobody was bringing their kids to the event.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 23, 2017, 08:23:25 PM

My wife is a SAHM and helps organize a local Meetup group for those with little kids. She has to kick MLM-ers out sometimes, and the confusing thing is, why not come to some events before trying to sell crap? At least put in the minimum effort, and maybe your kids will have fun, because people do join these things on purpose to make friends.


It's sad these women can't just get together and be friends, and let their kids play together. With no strings attached.  I wish my Moms of Multiples group would kick out the MLM-ers, but they don't. I have blocked one of the members from facebook, email and my phone, all three. She wouldn't stop sending messages and invites.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LadyStache in Baja on July 24, 2017, 10:54:01 AM
I live in Baja Mexico. Pretty isolated, peninsula, small towns.

Just found out my niece is making $4000 USD / month selling Mary Kay, just from her commissions from her downline. Anything she direct sells is on top of that. WTF?

Her mom is under her and also doing well.

My niece has 136 people directly under her. She's been in it for a long time, and works hard (probably full timeish) training her team and all that. Pretty impressive.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Proud Foot on July 24, 2017, 10:59:49 AM
My wife just told me about a friend of hers.  The friend signed up as a consultant for Thrive as she wanted to try the product and it had a good sign on discount. She then also posted on facebook asking for honest feedback from others who have used the product. Thrive contacted her and told her she couldn't do that and then blocked access to her consultant account. So she immediately cancelled her order and requested a refund.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on July 24, 2017, 12:22:54 PM
From a former co-worker, who is barely an acquaintance, a FB IM message (all typos were his, not mine):

Hey bud its NAME hey I sponsered you into one of programs.  I have a work. I was wondering if you had some time to sit sown tomorrow and go over it give me a call and I will explain further.  My number is XXXXXXXXXX

Looks like American Income Life.  He was a maintenance tech, we haven't spoken in nearly two years.  Married with a small child and another one on the way.  Hopefully he wises up soon and just gets a job in construction, which would offer better pay and utilizes his current skill set so he can support his family.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on July 24, 2017, 03:00:52 PM
Here is a positive MLM experience..

I bought a Thirty-one wallet from the thrift store last month fpr $6 .  It is amazingly great quality, perfect for what I needed.  I don't think it was ever used, either.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Cookie78 on July 24, 2017, 03:17:12 PM
Hey bud its NAME hey I sponsered you into one of programs.  I have a work. I was wondering if you had some time to sit sown tomorrow and go over it give me a call and I will explain further.  My number is XXXXXXXXXX

What does that even mean?!!?

Also, I really hope he actually typed 'NAME'.lol
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on July 24, 2017, 04:00:01 PM
Hey bud its NAME hey I sponsered you into one of programs.  I have a work. I was wondering if you had some time to sit sown tomorrow and go over it give me a call and I will explain further.  My number is XXXXXXXXXX

What does that even mean?!!?

Also, I really hope he actually typed 'NAME'.lol

Ha Ha, no, he actually got that part correct, along with the phone number, but he didn't even put dashes in it, so it was literally 10 digits all together.  I think the sad part is that I glanced at the IM and just moved on.  It wasn't until I typed it out for y'all today that I realized all the errors!  WOW...
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Loren Ver on July 24, 2017, 06:31:38 PM
This thread has been a good read that entertained me and then made me sad too. 

If blocking "friends" into a drive way isn't some form of desperation, then I'm not sure what it is.  Still, a fun read.

Luckily my experience with MLM has been minimal and pain free.  I think that mostly has to due with the people that are selling are actual work friends so they don't take the "no" personally.  It helps that they know me enough to know I don't wear leggings (I have a lularoe friend), buy things that smell (Sentsey - sp?), nor wear makeup (the other ones).  None of them are stay at home parents.

I know if I go to a party (online or otherwise) I will buy, so I just don't go. 

It really makes me sad to think people bought in to these for the right to sell.  That makes me kinda mad.

LV
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on July 25, 2017, 07:50:07 PM
Here is a positive MLM experience..

I bought a Thirty-one wallet from the thrift store last month fpr $6 .  It is amazingly great quality, perfect for what I needed.  I don't think it was ever used, either.

You can buy any MLM product on Ebay. Tons of Mary Kay cosmetics, pampered chef products, Longaberger baskets....all are sold on there. The consultants usually have to sell off their inventory somehow.
Title: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: yourusernamehere on July 26, 2017, 04:02:49 PM
Thought of y'all today as I happily unfriended a Facebook "friend" who won't stop inviting me to Partylite online parties. No thank you!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: CargoBiker on July 27, 2017, 04:28:43 AM
My friend is a SAHM who used to work as a graphic designer.  I offered to give her work doing branding and graphic design for my business.  She didn't even respond back to me.

I spent thousands to have someone else do it instead.

Meanwhile, she's trying to sell lipsense.  She would've made more in a month or two working for me, than she probably ever will selling lipsense.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: zephyr911 on July 27, 2017, 09:04:58 AM
A couple of acquaintances within a large group of local friends recently joined a wine MLM and then started marketing it to everyone else as "free wine". We had a bit of a spat when I pointed out that nothing is really free and the structure increases the average cost. I don't know if anyone actually signed up... I'm just glad we're not hearing about it anymore.

The next time we all hung out, I gave away a bunch of cheap bottles, with an Actual Free Wine sign. To keep it good-natured, I gave the couple in question a nice red too*. All told, cost me less than one bottle of the shite they're selling xD

*not expensive, just really good.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frozen on July 29, 2017, 06:08:36 PM
If you need ammunition to get someone to stop participating in MLM, show them this hysterical John Oliver video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI

One powerful message: if you were to recruit 5 people into an MLM scheme and they each recruit 5, and so on....after 14 cycles you would exceed the population on earth and we would need to start reproducing!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Joeko on July 29, 2017, 09:10:19 PM
If you need ammunition to get someone to stop participating in MLM, show them this hysterical John Oliver video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI

One powerful message: if you were to recruit 5 people into an MLM scheme and they each recruit 5, and so on....after 14 cycles you would exceed the population on earth and we would need to start reproducing!

Awesome job by John Oliver.  Is going to see the movie Betting on Zero to support the film maker

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/11/herbalife-documentary-betting-on-zero
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on July 31, 2017, 12:03:57 PM
This morning on my neighborhood FB page, there's an invite for Mom's & kids to learn how to make GOOD choices for their health, at a Lunch Box makeover.  Zooming into the photo, I see a picture of random school supplies, with pouches of Juice Plus.  Sigh, getting the kids involved in MLM at an early age!  Ugh...
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Loren Ver on July 31, 2017, 04:14:00 PM
The John Oliver video was good.  Much enjoyment was had.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Lady SA on August 01, 2017, 02:14:16 PM
One of my cousins is one of those obnoxious Beachbody coaches and literally every single post on social media is her bragging about how great her Peanut butter-acai berry-lemon-chocolate Shakology was this morning and to contact her to order and how inspiring and rewarding it is to be a coach and what groups she has going and how to join. Literally 1 person ever interacts with her posts. Not even her mom "likes" them lol

I always have a bit of a chuckle because I have green smoothies for breakfast every morning (Almonds, spinach, berries, dates, almond milk, and a banana) which are probably a gajillion times healthier and CHEAPER than those shake packets.

Another good friend has cycled through a few MLM schemes. Jamberry, Pampered Chef, one for adult coloring books I think, a few others that I'm not remembering off the top of my head, and now she's on Norwex. I think she hosts those parties to get the free stuff from her "mentor" or whatever, she doesn't have anyone under her. But she's struggling financially (overwhelming student loans on a teachers salary) and it makes me sad to see her jumping on these so desperately. She isn't pushy at all, but her facebook parties always fall flat from lack of interest. Her time would be much better spent on other pursuits.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: CargoBiker on August 02, 2017, 09:04:35 AM
one for adult coloring books I think

Is this real?

That can't be real.


Shit. It's real: https://www.facebook.com/NewHorizonColoringBooks
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: JoJo on August 02, 2017, 10:23:07 AM
One of my cousins is one of those obnoxious Beachbody coaches and literally every single post on social media is her bragging about how great her Peanut butter-acai berry-lemon-chocolate Shakology was this morning and to contact her to order and how inspiring and rewarding it is to be a coach and what groups she has going and how to join. Literally 1 person ever interacts with her posts. Not even her mom "likes" them lol

I always have a bit of a chuckle because I have green smoothies for breakfast every morning (Almonds, spinach, berries, dates, almond milk, and a banana) which are probably a gajillion times healthier and CHEAPER than those shake packets.

Another good friend has cycled through a few MLM schemes. Jamberry, Pampered Chef, one for adult coloring books I think, a few others that I'm not remembering off the top of my head, and now she's on Norwex. I think she hosts those parties to get the free stuff from her "mentor" or whatever, she doesn't have anyone under her. But she's struggling financially (overwhelming student loans on a teachers salary) and it makes me sad to see her jumping on these so desperately. She isn't pushy at all, but her facebook parties always fall flat from lack of interest. Her time would be much better spent on other pursuits.


You need to post pick and brag about your shake and then tag her!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MsSnowBlack on August 02, 2017, 01:09:46 PM
When I was little, my mom had some friends tried to recruit her into selling Amway. Luckily she didn't fall into the trap but did agree to buy some of the products as her support. It's just hard to say no to friends and I get that. We didn't mind using the products and some were quite useful. I couldn't remember what we bought but my mom didn't my much anyway.

I thought MLM was non-existence until there was one day suddenly everyone was talking about "Worldventure" and how great it was. I did a bit research and immediately identified that it was MLM. It was funny that a girl in my local ski chat group started posting worldventure adds every single day for multiple times a day. It was all about "we are helping people to fulfill their dreams and etc." Group members started getting annoyed and asked her to stop. She got so angry and started to say not very nice words so got kicked out finally.

I thought that was the closest interaction with this MLM until I learned that one of my mom's friends got tricked into it and had to pay thousands of dollars to buy a vacation from WV before it got expired after 2 years. Guess she didn't read the fine print when signing up. She is still paying for the membership every month even though she knew it's a scam and didn't get any discount when she brought that vacation from WV last time. I'm speechless. At least she is not actively recruiting anyone to join so my mom can still befriend with her.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: rockstache on August 02, 2017, 01:32:00 PM
I have a ton of school-mates on FB who cover the spectrum of every single MLM mentioned here, and probably a few more that aren't listed.  It's incredible.  I do see that it's exclusively the stay at home mom set that attempts these strategies, and it makes be sad to see soo many of them fall victim to these scams.  In many cases, these people are struggling, and they make those struggles public on their page all the time.  I noticed one who just yesterday posted a reminder of her LuLaRoe party coming up today, and seeing what y'all have written about the startup costs, I can only imagine that there is some sort of financing that makes even more money to the company, and puts these people who can least afford it in even more debt.  This particular mom often complains about the lack of heat and various other problems in her apartment, does the side hustle on occasion of being a blackjack dealer at private parties at very off hours, and has two children with some medical issues that her hubby's insurance doesn't do a great job of covering the cost.  Yup, a whole lot of "poor me" in those posts, and now an MLM?  Scary and Sad.

I have a neighbor who is all about Plexus and "Think Pink".  She often tells these stories of how much weight she's lost (looks the same to me), and how her OB/GYN was thrilled to learn that she's drinking Plexus while pregnant!  Yeah, I highly doubt that.  Finances have always been tight in the 2 years that she's moved to our reasonably priced neighborhood, but I'm guessing that someone who buys a $200K house and has a $2K mortgage payment probably had no down payment and horrible credit.  Now that baby #2 is on the way, they've listed the house for an inflated amount, and the plan is to go back to renting.

However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file.  She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing!  I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting.  I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...

An actually very intelligent friend of mine posted this chart (or very similar) today. I really didn't know what to say. So...you're making slightly under $40 PER MONTH on average and you want me to join you? Underneath were comments from other salespeople, "Praise Jesus," "So glad I get to work from home," etc.. I had to just scroll away so I didn't ask them if they knew how to math.

ETA...sorry I don't know how to re-post the chart I guess.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BFGirl on August 02, 2017, 02:14:13 PM
I have now been invited to 3 MLM parties scheduled within the same week.  Jamberry, LipSense and Mary Kay.  Ugh.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: larmando on August 03, 2017, 12:24:39 AM
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file.  She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing!  I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting.  I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...

Wow! A whopping 0.59% make above the US average listed in that particular chart, which is not particylarly high, and a whopping 1.21% make a living wage (provided you're frugal) out of it. And this does't include any money you have to spend yourself in the product to reach/maintain status.... Great chart.

A friend of mine recently joined "younique" and unfriended me when I refused to buy overpriced mascara (as a present) and told her MLMs can't mathematically work. Oh well. I even looked at their compensation system (which is relatively understandable) and of course if you're recruiting anybody who likes the product to be under you (even if only to get the 20%/25% discounts) it's not clear how you can get the "personal sales" part except by paying yourself, out of your profits if you're high up above to actually have any.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: prognastat on August 03, 2017, 07:46:08 AM
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file.  She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing!  I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting.  I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...

Wow! A whopping 0.59% make above the US average listed in that particular chart, which is not particylarly high, and a whopping 1.21% make a living wage (provided you're frugal) out of it. And this does't include any money you have to spend yourself in the product to reach/maintain status.... Great chart.

A friend of mine recently joined "younique" and unfriended me when I refused to buy overpriced mascara (as a present) and told her MLMs can't mathematically work. Oh well. I even looked at their compensation system (which is relatively understandable) and of course if you're recruiting anybody who likes the product to be under you (even if only to get the 20%/25% discounts) it's not clear how you can get the "personal sales" part except by paying yourself, out of your profits if you're high up above to actually have any.

Yeah but a mere 50% of people make more than average income, at those rates you might as well risk it an make it big using a MLM.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on August 03, 2017, 08:43:44 AM
FTFY: the Plexus graphs, scaled.
The original graph was log-scaled.

The Plexus graph has changed a little since it was posted here. Here is the new graph from their website.

See it in the wild here: https://media.plexusworldwide.com/cdn/FINAL-2015-Income-Disclosure-Statement.pdf
This graph is slightly more honest. The fine print lets us know that they excluded the 65% of entry level people who did not qualify for commissions - with them average commissions for the entry level group would be $111. Overall average across all ranks < $2000/yr; median $213.23.

My BIL took me to a TEAM meeting when he was involved in MonaVie. One of the presenters talked about how in the corporate world, 5% of the people make 95% of the money - or something like that. I don't recall how directly they claimed that signing up would provide an opportunity to break free from a job working to earn money for someone else; but when they passed out the MonaVie income disclosure statement, I noticed how even after they elimintated the "wholesale customers" who didn't have enough volume to qualify for commissions the numbers they gave (including self-reported average hours spent on the business) indicated that about 95% of the sales force made less than minimum wage in their "business".
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: SunshineAZ on August 03, 2017, 10:04:34 AM
If you need ammunition to get someone to stop participating in MLM, show them this hysterical John Oliver video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI

One powerful message: if you were to recruit 5 people into an MLM scheme and they each recruit 5, and so on....after 14 cycles you would exceed the population on earth and we would need to start reproducing!

If you liked that one, watch this one on retirement plans, it is awesome --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY

I've never heard of John Oliver before, but I loved the videos, thanks for the link.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: larmando on August 03, 2017, 12:53:35 PM
One of the presenters talked about how in the corporate world, 5% of the people make 95% of the money - or something like that.

Did he say: "In the corporate world 5% of the people make 95% of the money. So unjust. Come to us where less than 0.5% of the people make what would be a decent corporate salary".
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on August 03, 2017, 01:39:29 PM
Did he say: "In the corporate world 5% of the people make 95% of the money. So unjust. Come to us where less than 0.5% of the people make what would be a decent corporate salary".
Of course they didn't emphasize the contents of the income disclosure statement. I wonder if any of then had even analyzed it. The prevailing attitude was that if you worked hard, with the help of TEAM, you would do better than average MonaVie distributors.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on August 03, 2017, 05:30:41 PM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: CargoBiker on August 04, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
Of course they didn't emphasize the contents of the income disclosure statement. I wonder if any of then had even analyzed it. The prevailing attitude was that if you worked hard, with the help of TEAM, you would do better than average MonaVie distributors.

Did you read the income statement?

I could make $429,259.


That's all the analysis I need.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 05, 2017, 12:21:22 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on August 06, 2017, 08:02:08 AM
Did he say: "In the corporate world 5% of the people make 95% of the money. So unjust. Come to us where less than 0.5% of the people make what would be a decent corporate salary".
Of course they didn't emphasize the contents of the income disclosure statement. I wonder if any of then had even analyzed it. The prevailing attitude was that if you worked hard, with the help of TEAM, you would do better than average MonaVie distributors.

Interesting, that they are saying that the average distributor does not work hard, but the whole pitch is usually about working hard and recruiting.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: hops on August 06, 2017, 06:57:42 PM
A long, depressing read:

https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mustachepungoeshere on August 06, 2017, 08:19:11 PM
A long, depressing read:

https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/

Depressing but thorough. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frozen on August 06, 2017, 08:44:32 PM
A long, depressing read:

https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/
This is really eye opening. What a business model - to sell women leggings with ugly patterns.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 06, 2017, 10:12:21 PM
Is anyone but me reminded of the old "Weird Al" Yankovic song "Gonna Buy Me A Condo" in which the speaker talks about all the luxuries he's going to be able to afford as an Amway distributor?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on August 07, 2017, 07:50:33 AM
Is anyone but me reminded of the old "Weird Al" Yankovic song "Gonna Buy Me A Condo" in which the speaker talks about all the luxuries he's going to be able to afford as an Amway distributor?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztCrH4ZwySc

Bonus: Reggae beat, my fav!

TGS delivers yet again. This should be the theme song for the Antimustachian Wall.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on August 07, 2017, 07:55:48 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on August 07, 2017, 08:04:11 AM
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
Sure there's the CEO of your supplier, but you've built your own "business", so you're the CEO of that.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on August 07, 2017, 09:56:24 AM
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
Sure there's the CEO of your supplier, but you've built your own "business", so you're the CEO of that.

Your business that you have no personal control of because the company regulates it so tightly.

Want to set your own prices? Can't do that.  Want to carry other goods? Can't do that. Want to advertise with a different color scheme? Can't do that. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on August 07, 2017, 01:06:06 PM
This CEO idea is kinda funny.   The owner of a Subway doesn't say that he is a CEO, he  or she says that they are an owner.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 07, 2017, 03:19:32 PM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.

It's a hobby of mine to peruse Linkedin accounts and see how many people call themselves CEO or owner of their MLM or self-employed-but-has-no-income-or-clientele business.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on August 08, 2017, 07:28:33 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: prognastat on August 08, 2017, 08:06:14 AM
Unfortunately most of the MLMs use manipulative phrasing like that to try to manipulate people in to joining because it makes them feel good about themselves(at least at first until they start to find out they are unlikely to make any money and worse yet are far in the hole).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on August 08, 2017, 08:25:19 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.

My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?

If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: prognastat on August 08, 2017, 08:31:32 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.

My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?

If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.

I took it as them talking about the culture of #girlboss and not your post. To me it seems the #girlboss from companies duping women and women being duped and not actually an owner, CEO or boss in any shape or form is quite degrading to someone who has actually achieved such things.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 08, 2017, 09:33:47 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.

My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?

If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.

I took it as them talking about the culture of #girlboss and not your post. To me it seems the #girlboss from companies duping women and women being duped and not actually an owner, CEO or boss in any shape or form is quite degrading to someone who has actually achieved such things.

Well, there are two separate pools of people that don't overlap.

A person who actually responds to advertisement such as #girlboss or any ad that talks about "brekkie", "tummy", or other infantilizing terms *is* their target market. They're looking for someone who wants compensation and status grossly out of proportion with their actual achievement. Such people don't mind being spoken to, or about, in degrading terms because in order to feel degraded you first have to feel as though you're worth something.

Show me someone who doesn't mind being called a "girl" when her male peers are called "men", or who doesn't mind fake terms of endearment like "hon" or "babe" directed at her but not at others, and I'll show you someone who doesn't have much in terms of marketable skills or business savvy. That person is the *perfect* MLM candidate. She's not too bright, but she wants to be treated as though she is. She wants to be treated as an equal, or even a superior, without having done the actual work. In her mind, the time she's spent watching soap operas about business or fashion leaders have qualified *her* to be such a leader.

People who object to being infantilized are generally the same ones who actually have the education, drive, and initiative to run their own business or to reach a management position in someone else's business. They have a very good idea as to what their time is worth and what services they can provide others in exchange for money. Typically they have at least a few specialized skills that other people are willing and able to pay for: skills and credentials that require effort to obtain. They also wouldn't be caught dead in a MLM because they have the reading and math skills to understand why a pyramid scheme provides them with a very poor return on their invested time.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: WhiteTrashCash on August 08, 2017, 09:47:01 AM
We've focused too much on the negatives of MLM. What about the positives? Like how it's now possible to get a lifetime supply of vitamins for nearly nothing at garage sales after someone's MLM dreams are crushed.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: prognastat on August 08, 2017, 09:53:29 AM
We've focused too much on the negatives of MLM. What about the positives? Like how it's now possible to get a lifetime supply of vitamins for nearly nothing at garage sales after someone's MLM dreams are crushed.

Positive for those smart enough to take advantage rather than being taken advantage of. But not something I would wish on any friend or family member.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: marcela on August 08, 2017, 10:00:01 AM
I'm still using the makeup/ skincare samples I got in my intro bag when I first signed up for Mary Kay!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on August 08, 2017, 10:19:36 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.

My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?

If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
No IowaJes, not your post. The culture of #girlboss.
Should I post on my FB page "hey just closed the books for July, and we're favorable to budget by $7M because volumes are up and I had the foresight to have everyone slash OT and travel! #girlboss". Or maybe my boss should do it followed by #boyboss?
It's ridiculous.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on August 08, 2017, 10:22:26 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.

My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?

If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.

I took it as them talking about the culture of #girlboss and not your post. To me it seems the #girlboss from companies duping women and women being duped and not actually an owner, CEO or boss in any shape or form is quite degrading to someone who has actually achieved such things.

Well, there are two separate pools of people that don't overlap.

A person who actually responds to advertisement such as #girlboss or any ad that talks about "brekkie", "tummy", or other infantilizing terms *is* their target market. They're looking for someone who wants compensation and status grossly out of proportion with their actual achievement. Such people don't mind being spoken to, or about, in degrading terms because in order to feel degraded you first have to feel as though you're worth something.

Show me someone who doesn't mind being called a "girl" when her male peers are called "men", or who doesn't mind fake terms of endearment like "hon" or "babe" directed at her but not at others, and I'll show you someone who doesn't have much in terms of marketable skills or business savvy. That person is the *perfect* MLM candidate. She's not too bright, but she wants to be treated as though she is. She wants to be treated as an equal, or even a superior, without having done the actual work. In her mind, the time she's spent watching soap operas about business or fashion leaders have qualified *her* to be such a leader.

People who object to being infantilized are generally the same ones who actually have the education, drive, and initiative to run their own business or to reach a management position in someone else's business. They have a very good idea as to what their time is worth and what services they can provide others in exchange for money. Typically they have at least a few specialized skills that other people are willing and able to pay for: skills and credentials that require effort to obtain. They also wouldn't be caught dead in a MLM because they have the reading and math skills to understand why a pyramid scheme provides them with a very poor return on their invested time.
Yes. And not only would I never buy into a MLM, I won't buy their products or host a party. I've even stopped attending all associated parties. Unfortunately I've realized that the ladies in my neighborhood just see me as deep pockets. They know where I work and what my title is. I don't get these invites because they want to have meaningful conversations with me over a damn glass of wine after work.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 08, 2017, 10:24:24 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.

My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?

If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
No IowaJes, not your post. The culture of #girlboss.
Should I post on my FB page "hey just closed the books for July, and we're favorable to budget by $7M because volumes are up and I had the foresight to have everyone slash OT and travel! #girlboss". Or maybe my boss should do it followed by #boyboss?
It's ridiculous.

#Fortune500boss (or something similar) would be a good mic drop
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on August 08, 2017, 10:25:10 AM
I also have this hanging over my desk.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Apples on August 08, 2017, 11:30:36 AM
I also have this hanging over my desk.

THAT IS AMAZING!  I've never seen it before.  That makes my whole day!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on August 08, 2017, 11:51:00 AM
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?

But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.

You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO.  All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.

My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?

If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
No IowaJes, not your post. The culture of #girlboss.
Should I post on my FB page "hey just closed the books for July, and we're favorable to budget by $7M because volumes are up and I had the foresight to have everyone slash OT and travel! #girlboss". Or maybe my boss should do it followed by #boyboss?
It's ridiculous.


Oooooh

I awesomely like this post.  +1000
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Warlord1986 on August 09, 2017, 07:42:50 AM
There has been another sighting in the wild. Rodan and Fields has taken an acquaintance of mine. She is now flogging 'life changing' skincare and the comments keep mentioning how the products are great and the business pays the bills. She's hoping to channel her inner 'BOSS' like her friends. There is lots of noise about how 'exciting' this is.

Frankly, I don't much like this woman. She wasn't a particularly good sgt., I very much doubt she and her husband make enough to cover their lifestyle as they portray it, and she goes on and on about how important patriotism is to her too often. This might be what gets me to de-friend her. But until I make that weighty, life-altering decision, I'm going to low-key hate and watch the financial train wreck. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: FireHiker on August 09, 2017, 11:52:30 AM
I thought about this topic recently when my cousin who's currently hawking LLR (formerly hawked Plexus) went to some LLR conference thing and posted all about it. I think everyone was wearing LLR in all the pictures. I don't get the appeal. And, it just makes me sad. She has three small children and wants to do what's best for them, but she has no education and her husband doesn't make much (don't think he is educated either, has done some menial job hopping from what I understand). I hate that MLMs prey on people like her. I hate to think what their financial picture looks like.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 09, 2017, 12:39:53 PM
I thought about this topic recently when my cousin who's currently hawking LLR (formerly hawked Plexus) went to some LLR conference thing and posted all about it. I think everyone was wearing LLR in all the pictures. I don't get the appeal. And, it just makes me sad. She has three small children and wants to do what's best for them, but she has no education and her husband doesn't make much (don't think he is educated either, has done some menial job hopping from what I understand). I hate that MLMs prey on people like her. I hate to think what their financial picture looks like.

You'd be surprised, but some very well-educated, professional people get involved in MLMs. I don't know why. I used to think it was only people who were less educated, no skills, couldn't hold down a job. But I was wrong. It's a wide range of people from different backgrounds.

I've had a Plexus person hounding me, for over a year now, to become an Ambassador with Plexus. Meaning, she wants to recruit me so she'll earn money. Other than that, she takes no interest in me at all, as a person. We're going through job loss right now with young children at home to support, and I don't have money to get involved in this type of business.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Sun Hat on August 09, 2017, 02:39:53 PM

Show me someone who doesn't mind being called a "girl" when her male peers are called "men", or who doesn't mind fake terms of endearment like "hon" or "babe" directed at her but not at others, and I'll show you someone who doesn't have much in terms of marketable skills or business savvy. That person is the *perfect* MLM candidate. She's not too bright, but she wants to be treated as though she is. She wants to be treated as an equal, or even a superior, without having done the actual work. In her mind, the time she's spent watching soap operas about business or fashion leaders have qualified *her* to be such a leader.

People who object to being infantilized are generally the same ones who actually have the education, drive, and initiative to run their own business or to reach a management position in someone else's business. They have a very good idea as to what their time is worth and what services they can provide others in exchange for money. Typically they have at least a few specialized skills that other people are willing and able to pay for: skills and credentials that require effort to obtain. They also wouldn't be caught dead in a MLM because they have the reading and math skills to understand why a pyramid scheme provides them with a very poor return on their invested time.


Should I post on my FB page "hey just closed the books for July, and we're favorable to budget by $7M because volumes are up and I had the foresight to have everyone slash OT and travel! #girlboss". Or maybe my boss should do it followed by #boyboss?


GrimSqueaker, BeanCounter, you're my heroes!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: FireHiker on August 09, 2017, 03:29:49 PM
I thought about this topic recently when my cousin who's currently hawking LLR (formerly hawked Plexus) went to some LLR conference thing and posted all about it. I think everyone was wearing LLR in all the pictures. I don't get the appeal. And, it just makes me sad. She has three small children and wants to do what's best for them, but she has no education and her husband doesn't make much (don't think he is educated either, has done some menial job hopping from what I understand). I hate that MLMs prey on people like her. I hate to think what their financial picture looks like.

You'd be surprised, but some very well-educated, professional people get involved in MLMs. I don't know why. I used to think it was only people who were less educated, no skills, couldn't hold down a job. But I was wrong. It's a wide range of people from different backgrounds.

I've had a Plexus person hounding me, for over a year now, to become an Ambassador with Plexus. Meaning, she wants to recruit me so she'll earn money. Other than that, she takes no interest in me at all, as a person. We're going through job loss right now with young children at home to support, and I don't have money to get involved in this type of business.

I can think of one acquaintance who falls into that category (well-educated, professional person, who used to sell Melaleuca). It would really surprise me to find others but I'm sure they're out there as you say. The one I'm thinking of is one of the more gullible people I know who will buy anything from anyone selling door to door.

My cousin who's now wrapped up in LLR used to be incredibly hard core about Plexus. She switched very abruptly to LLR. She lives in a tiny little town; I can't fathom how she's able to find enough people to buy these things. I guess that's why it is the only thing she posts about on facebook...

I've actually found my current neighborhood to be largely free of MLMs, but we have a large foreign population with a lot of engineers and tech executives, so I think that experience skews my perspective. Watch now that I've said that I'll get inundated with them...I sure hope not.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 10, 2017, 12:02:09 PM
I thought about this topic recently when my cousin who's currently hawking LLR (formerly hawked Plexus) went to some LLR conference thing and posted all about it. I think everyone was wearing LLR in all the pictures. I don't get the appeal. And, it just makes me sad. She has three small children and wants to do what's best for them, but she has no education and her husband doesn't make much (don't think he is educated either, has done some menial job hopping from what I understand). I hate that MLMs prey on people like her. I hate to think what their financial picture looks like.

You'd be surprised, but some very well-educated, professional people get involved in MLMs. I don't know why. I used to think it was only people who were less educated, no skills, couldn't hold down a job. But I was wrong. It's a wide range of people from different backgrounds.

I've had a Plexus person hounding me, for over a year now, to become an Ambassador with Plexus. Meaning, she wants to recruit me so she'll earn money. Other than that, she takes no interest in me at all, as a person. We're going through job loss right now with young children at home to support, and I don't have money to get involved in this type of business.

I can think of one acquaintance who falls into that category (well-educated, professional person, who used to sell Melaleuca). It would really surprise me to find others but I'm sure they're out there as you say. The one I'm thinking of is one of the more gullible people I know who will buy anything from anyone selling door to door.

My cousin who's now wrapped up in LLR used to be incredibly hard core about Plexus. She switched very abruptly to LLR. She lives in a tiny little town; I can't fathom how she's able to find enough people to buy these things. I guess that's why it is the only thing she posts about on facebook...

I've actually found my current neighborhood to be largely free of MLMs, but we have a large foreign population with a lot of engineers and tech executives, so I think that experience skews my perspective. Watch now that I've said that I'll get inundated with them...I sure hope not.

I only have a basic bachelor's degree and have never worked in a highly professional career, but basic economics tells me that these are mostly saturated markets and in MLMs, you recruit your own competition, which doesn't make sense. Also, in a recession most people aren't going to buy the products being sold by MLMs such as jewelry, essential oils, kitchen gadgets, cosmetics, etc. And lastly, although they claim it's their "own business", it's not. They are under a contract and it's someone else's business, not theirs.

I've found many people will stay in an MLM for years. They'll never admit they're losing money in it. Maybe they get a new set of MLM friends in the business and don't want to leave this lifestyle. Maybe there should be an MLM recovery group for people who want to leave these businesses, while getting social support at the same time.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: solon on August 10, 2017, 12:21:07 PM
Found this on facebook. It takes aim at many awful things people post, many of which are MLM-related.

https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245358_1506526459408144_6689382242845722145_n.png?oh=44e2e3e5894a34fb3a8ddad9e4382728&oe=5A266A33 (https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245358_1506526459408144_6689382242845722145_n.png?oh=44e2e3e5894a34fb3a8ddad9e4382728&oe=5A266A33)

(https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245358_1506526459408144_6689382242845722145_n.png?oh=44e2e3e5894a34fb3a8ddad9e4382728&oe=5A266A33)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on August 10, 2017, 03:04:09 PM
I've found many people will stay in an MLM for years. They'll never admit they're losing money in it. Maybe they get a new set of MLM friends in the business and don't want to leave this lifestyle. Maybe there should be an MLM recovery group for people who want to leave these businesses, while getting social support at the same time.

Maybe folks trying to get out of MLMs should use cult recovery groups. It seems the MLM mindset isn't different from most cults.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 10, 2017, 03:23:39 PM
I keep getting Facebook invites to a friend's Rodan + Fields (skin care products) "launch party." Apparently she's becoming one of their "consultants" and wants everyone together for a party.  This is the same person who invited me to some kind of book exchange last Christmas that also felt like an MLM invite.  She had the following conversation with another friend:

Other friend: What is Rodan + Fields?
R+F consultant: It's a dermatologist developed skincare line. Rodan + Fields is redefining the future of anti-aging skincare. Founded by Dr. Katie Rodan and Dr. Kathy Fields, it's a premium skincare brand built on a legacy of innovative dermatology-inspired skincare products backed by clinical results. sound suspiciously like an advertisement brochure?
Other friend: Cool. Is this a store or Is it a pyramid sales online thing?
R+F consultant: Not a store, it's sold by consultants. Set up as multi level marketing.


Are you kidding me? She understands the term "MLM," but apparently doesn't understand what it actually means if she thinks "pyramid" and "MLM" aren't the synonymous.  Her up-trace even posted on her FB page that she's sad to be losing a customer, but happy to be gaining a business partner. I'll bet she is.  My friend is an active duty Army officer who also sells horse riding equipment through Etsy.  She's probably coming to this new gig with a larger customer base than her former supplier.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 11, 2017, 08:19:56 PM
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 11, 2017, 08:22:03 PM
And Solon, that is a great quote (above).
I am in a Facebook group the other day, we were talking about how to save money on prescription drugs. Someone with an essential oils MLM told everyone "don't take drugs your doctor prescribes you; essential oils should be used instead and they will cure anything!" And then she said for anyone to PM her, as she apparently has all the answers to anyone's medical problems.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: RWD on August 11, 2017, 08:42:05 PM
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."

Gullibility?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 11, 2017, 08:54:10 PM
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."

Gullibility?

Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: the500millionaire on August 11, 2017, 09:01:52 PM
A few years ago, while I was still in college, my folks were looking for some extra streams of income to help make ends meet. Lo and behold, they heard about an MLM scheme that revolved around selling utility contracts to local small businesses. We bought it hook line and sinker.

The worst part is that they were very careful, but were sold by people who were "friends."

MLM schemes always, ALWAYS get people hooked when they are desperate. Why? Their promises are incredible. This is why not only do I discourage people from seeking them out, but I actually find them to be immoral.

Explain to me the difference between MLM programs and predatory lending? People who are in a pinch are offered "a way to make life better," and instead of finding their way out, they find themselves out a few hundred bucks, and in a deeper hole than they were in the first place.

Your BS meter should go up around them.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frozen on August 13, 2017, 10:14:32 AM
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."
I got a call out of the blue from someone I worked with over 10 years ago. I assumed he wanted to catch up or was calling to network with me. I was shocked to find out that he was calling to try and recruit me to work for the MLM Advocare! I politely told him I am happy with my current role and am not looking for a career change.

 Now I notice all his posts on Facebook about how they have to have the courage to stand up to criticism of what they do. Other posts seem to center around buying things and winning Advocare trips, rather than saving for their futures.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 13, 2017, 11:28:36 AM
Another Facebook friend (completely unrelated to the last one I discussed) just posted that she's now doing Rodan + Fields and is so excited thanking her up-trace who "gave me the confidence and courage to start MY own business."  Preaching to the choir and beating that dead horse thoroughly, but I still can't stop laughing at the concept of someone else providing you product to sell for them constituting "your own business."  Apparently it is their custom to refer to the next link in their chain as a "business partner."  My first friend's up-trace called her that, and here the new person is calling her up-trace a partner.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mustachepungoeshere on August 13, 2017, 06:27:45 PM
Show me someone who doesn't mind being called a "girl" when her male peers are called "men", or who doesn't mind fake terms of endearment like "hon" or "babe" directed at her but not at others...

An Australian female magistrate called out this behaviour in court recently.

Swear in front of me, but don't call me 'darl'

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/swear-in-front-of-me-but-dont-call-me-darl-a-lesson-in-respect-20170711-gx97rr.html
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on August 14, 2017, 06:03:44 AM
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."

Gullibility?

Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
I call that pre-emptive shaming of a future victim.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on August 14, 2017, 10:33:27 AM
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dude on August 14, 2017, 12:07:31 PM
My secretary here at work seems to attend an inordinate number of these MLM parties, and almost always buys something "to help her friend out." She's smart enough to resist the siren's song of recruitment, but she has a tendency to rationalize her purchases by saying "it's actually a good product, and I use it all the time." I think she knows the stuff is shit, but she's got to justify the spend.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 14, 2017, 08:28:36 PM
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."

Gullibility?

Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
I call that pre-emptive shaming of a future victim.

I am not trying to shame anyone. One symptom of poor financial literacy is when someone can't understand what it will cost to start up a business and run it, and don't research the business first, even though they have internet access. Twenty years ago, I can understand why so many people got hooked into MLMs. But it makes little sense nowadays, with all the information that is readily available online; this includes reviews of the businesses, informative websites like Pink truth (which exposes the Mary Kay business) and even documentaries you can watch on youtube about these businesses.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: WhiteTrashCash on August 14, 2017, 09:36:10 PM
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."

Gullibility?

Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
I call that pre-emptive shaming of a future victim.

I am not trying to shame anyone. One symptom of poor financial literacy is when someone can't understand what it will cost to start up a business and run it, and don't research the business first, even though they have internet access. Twenty years ago, I can understand why so many people got hooked into MLMs. But it makes little sense nowadays, with all the information that is readily available online; this includes reviews of the businesses, informative websites like Pink truth (which exposes the Mary Kay business) and even documentaries you can watch on youtube about these businesses.

One of the reasons I think that MLMs are a tool of Satan is that they are designed to prey on uneducated desperate poor people. When companies purposefully set out to exploit the most vulnerable, that is simply evil.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 14, 2017, 09:49:39 PM
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Engineer_Erik on August 14, 2017, 11:36:13 PM
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.

And it's not a pyramid either.

(http://bvusolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/5.jpg)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on August 15, 2017, 07:18:20 AM
Avon is indeed multi-level marketing.
You earn bonuses for recruiting people below you. Once you have a certain number of people in your downline you earn a commission on their orders.  MLMs are all direct sales- that is what makes them not illegal pyramid schemes; a product to sell. In theory, you can sell the product and make money. You just make more if you get other people to sell the product too.



Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: RWD on August 15, 2017, 07:39:10 AM
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.

I think (hope) it's a joke since it's exactly the same thing drawn upside down.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on August 15, 2017, 07:39:40 AM
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.

And it's not a pyramid either.

(http://bvusolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/5.jpg)
I don't know where this came from, but it's bullshit. The flow of money in a MLM is most certainly from bottom to top. But that's it.
I don't even understand the pyramid on the left.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on August 15, 2017, 07:46:32 AM
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.

I think (hope) it's a joke since it's exactly the same thing drawn upside down.
Ah ha! The sarcasm font wasn't working. Yes, funny.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on August 15, 2017, 08:56:04 AM
Avon is indeed multi-level marketing.
You earn bonuses for recruiting people below you. Once you have a certain number of people in your downline you earn a commission on their orders.  MLMs are all direct sales- that is what makes them not illegal pyramid schemes; a product to sell. In theory, you can sell the product and make money. You just make more if you get other people to sell the product too.
It makes sense that you should make more if you recruit people below you. The problem with most MLMs is that there is not really any money to be made at the bottom level. Usually you have to build and maintain a couple of levels below you to get any kind of reasonable compensation.

Most MLM presentations lead with their product, but quickly shift to the business opportunity of selling the product. Often they'll talk about building residual income from sales commissions. However, when you start reading the fine print of the compensation plan, you quickly see that most of the money is distributed at the higher levels and largely comes in the form of recruitment bonuses.

In my experience consultants from AVON, Pampered Chef, and Stampin' Up focused their efforts on selling product. They seem to want sales and referrals to more customers (party bookings) much more than they want to recruit a downline. I imagine that their compensation plans are mostly direct sales commission with modest recruitment bonuses and/or downline sales commissions.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on August 15, 2017, 09:17:28 AM
Avon is indeed multi-level marketing.
You earn bonuses for recruiting people below you. Once you have a certain number of people in your downline you earn a commission on their orders.  MLMs are all direct sales- that is what makes them not illegal pyramid schemes; a product to sell. In theory, you can sell the product and make money. You just make more if you get other people to sell the product too.
It makes sense that you should make more if you recruit people below you. The problem with most MLMs is that there is not really any money to be made at the bottom level. Usually you have to build and maintain a couple of levels below you to get any kind of reasonable compensation.

Most MLM presentations lead with their product, but quickly shift to the business opportunity of selling the product. Often they'll talk about building residual income from sales commissions. However, when you start reading the fine print of the compensation plan, you quickly see that most of the money is distributed at the higher levels and largely comes in the form of recruitment bonuses.

In my experience consultants from AVON, Pampered Chef, and Stampin' Up focused their efforts on selling product. They seem to want sales and referrals to more customers (party bookings) much more than they want to recruit a downline. I imagine that their compensation plans are mostly direct sales commission with modest recruitment bonuses and/or downline sales commissions.

My experience with Pampered Chef and Stampin' Up is the opposite. They want to sign people up.  They are no different from Mary Kay, Lularoe, Usborne Books, Jamberry, Younique, I could go on.  The people who make big money in PC and SU are the ones with large downlines. You don't make great money on justy your product sales. SU you get money on your downline overrides, so you WANT recruits. However, you only get a downline commission check if your own sales are at a certain level, so you need to book parties too!

(Fun Fact: I was a hobby consultant for "The Angel Company" which is a now defunct MLM for stamps. I never once sold a single thing, and never intended to. But one quarter I was star recruiter because I had 12 recruits. Didn't get a cent from it though because I had no sales. But they had no required minimums and the kit was a great value, so lots of people signed up just for themselves. Might be why they went out of business...)

My experience with AVON is mostly people giving me catalogs. So I can't comment there, but they are a MLM based on their payment structure.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Engineer_Erik on August 15, 2017, 09:54:41 AM
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.

I think (hope) it's a joke since it's exactly the same thing drawn upside down.

Yes, I meant it at sarcasm.  The website I pulled it from did not. :/
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on August 15, 2017, 10:17:20 AM
But it's not a "pyramid" it's a "reverse funnel".
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Smokystache on August 15, 2017, 10:29:35 AM
The universe is telling me to post this:

Link to page with video : http://economicsoftheoffice.com/all/?id=21 (http://economicsoftheoffice.com/all/?id=21)

(http://economicsoftheoffice.com/static/uploads/21.png)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sehr on August 15, 2017, 01:15:51 PM
I have a good friend who sells Norwex and it actually really good at it and does not allow it to effect friendships. I also really like most Norwex products and feel the quality is quite high. However, the prices are way too much and the shipping on top is the last straw. So I've bought probably $100-$150 of Norwex from her over last couple of years because she has introduced me to some great cleaning tools, but I also buy competitors products for a fraction of the price off of Amazon (there is no way I'm spending over $100 on a mop).

I usually like the products of these types of companies, at least Norwex and Pampered Chef, but I resent how they take advantage of social norms in order to get people to pay way more than they ever would in a store. Now excuse me while I go and hide my ecloth mop before she has a chance to see it . . .
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sw1tch on August 16, 2017, 07:10:56 AM
I have a good friend who sells Norwex and it actually really good at it and does not allow it to effect friendships. I also really like most Norwex products and feel the quality is quite high. However, the prices are way too much and the shipping on top is the last straw. So I've bought probably $100-$150 of Norwex from her over last couple of years because she has introduced me to some great cleaning tools, but I also buy competitors products for a fraction of the price off of Amazon (there is no way I'm spending over $100 on a mop).

I usually like the products of these types of companies, at least Norwex and Pampered Chef, but I resent how they take advantage of social norms in order to get people to pay way more than they ever would in a store. Now excuse me while I go and hide my ecloth mop before she has a chance to see it . . .

I accidentally went to a Norwex "party" with my wife some years ago in my pre-Mustachian days.  I say accidentally because I just showed up for the free food and had no idea that someone was attempting to sell us something.

Anyhow, me being the normal skeptic (and somewhat of a cheapskate) that I am couldn't believe the absurd prices, so I proceeded to whip out my smartphone and did a little bit of on the spot research.  I quickly found e-cloth stuff and pointed this out to my wife.  We had a side conversation while the sales spiel was going on and decided not to buy anything.  That was my first and last MLM "party" experience.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frozen on August 18, 2017, 03:18:28 PM
If you need ammunition to get someone to stop participating in MLM, show them this hysterical John Oliver video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI

One powerful message: if you were to recruit 5 people into an MLM scheme and they each recruit 5, and so on....after 14 cycles you would exceed the population on earth and we would need to start reproducing!

Awesome job by John Oliver.  Is going to see the movie Betting on Zero to support the film maker

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/11/herbalife-documentary-betting-on-zero

Just watched Betting on Zero on Amazon. Great movie about the research Bill Ackman did on Herbal Life before shoring the stock. I now have Herbal Life added to the list of stocks I track.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on August 20, 2017, 09:35:04 PM
I've read about Lularoe, and how crazy people get about it.  It's just recently hit our area, but I don't know anyone who sells it.  There is a lady I know who's sold some sort of MLM product as long as I can remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if she, or one of her daughters, is one of them.  Somehow I got down the rabbit hole of reading about it, and it's pretty insane.  Then I looked at gofundme and there are a ton of women there trying to raise money for "their own business", because they can't afford the start up package.  On another board, I've read of certain people making a ton of money with it, but they got in early, when there were limited sellers.  Now many of them are getting out.

It's a little interesting to read about.  Apparently, if you wanted to get out before, you were stuck with your inventory.  So, many people started "going out of business" sales to get rid of tons of leftovers (most of the stuff is seriously ugly) that many fans of the clothing are no longer paying full price (which is crazy high for what it is).  Now current sellers are complaining because they can't compete, and it's leading to sellers reporting other sellers, etc, so it's really like people trying to escape a cult--all the formerly supporting people have turned against you.  On top of everything, they had some major quality issues and, because of the way the structure was set up, it was usually impossible to get something replaced in the same style/print that you wanted.

The company started to offer sellers, who wanted to get out, refunds of their inventory if they returned it.  The problem was, the company would not refund money on anything they deemed "defective", and would also not return the "defective" items.  So, people are  now out the money and the items they paid for.  One lady on another board said she figures she was shorted "a few hundred dollars", but she made a profit overall, so she's not complaining.  But, wow.

I have to admit, I did buy a pair of leggings from a "going out of business" sale, below wholesale, and while they are soft, I wouldn't wear them in public.  They are good for lounging around the house or wearing as long underwear (I wore them under a pair of jeans for a long, chilly bus ride recently), however, I could not see paying full price ($25).  There are some women who will buy dozens at a time though!

I saw this link recently, and it has a little about how they get people, and how far some will go to try to make an MLM work.  It's scary.

https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/

One of my SILs will "host" online parties every now and then for different things, and I think she had been selling one of the weightloss programs for a while (I saw her comment on someone's post that she had lost 20 pounds, and if the person wanted to know how, she should PM her.)  I just ignore the invites, when I've looked, things are just so overpriced it's ridiculous.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 22, 2017, 03:28:46 PM
It's just recently hit our area, but I don't know anyone who sells it.  There is a lady I know who's sold some sort of MLM product as long as I can remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if she, or one of her daughters, is one of them.  Somehow I got down the rabbit hole of reading about it, and it's pretty insane.  Then I looked at gofundme and there are a ton of women there trying to raise money for "their own business", because they can't afford the start up package. 

How sad. These businesses use the hook phrase "empowering women" and these women think they're starting their own business, when they're not. It's actually someone else's business (whoever the CEO is0 and they will be a customer, not a business person. A customer who buys lots of inventory.

The lularoe startup kit is 5 to 6,000 dollars. Just to start. And the leggings will be out of style very soon, if they're not now.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: yourusernamehere on August 22, 2017, 05:16:35 PM

&lt;Snip&gt; And the leggings will be out of style very soon, if they're not now. &lt;Snip&gt;

One can only hope.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ABC123 on August 22, 2017, 08:46:23 PM
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: hops on August 23, 2017, 06:28:12 AM
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 23, 2017, 10:26:52 AM
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

Every time I see this I want to ask "Are you giving away this magical pill/food/drink for free? No, then I guess you're all about the money too."  I had to completely delete an old acquaintance from FB because after a while 9 out of 10 posts were either her posing at the gym or sharing the latest from Natural News.  She didn't have anything original to say about her own life or even the NN stuff she advertised - just straight copy/paste.  The straw that broke that back was some special apple sauce ad she posted that claimed to cure everything but cancer.  The ad showed the jar with 13 different cures next to it.  I want to find the lab rat who designed that apple sauce and see if he has received his Nobel yet.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: hops on August 23, 2017, 11:19:40 AM
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

Every time I see this I want to ask "Are you giving away this magical pill/food/drink for free? No, then I guess you're all about the money too."  I had to completely delete an old acquaintance from FB because after a while 9 out of 10 posts were either her posing at the gym or sharing the latest from Natural News.  She didn't have anything original to say about her own life or even the NN stuff she advertised - just straight copy/paste.  The straw that broke that back was some special apple sauce ad she posted that claimed to cure everything but cancer.  The ad showed the jar with 13 different cures next to it.  I want to find the lab rat who designed that apple sauce and see if he has received his Nobel yet.

The silence was deafening once when I replied "The prescriptions that keep me out of the hospital are $10 for a 90-day supply. What do your products cost?" A more shameless seller might've suddenly switched gears in response and said you can't put a price on good health (as long as they're getting a cut of the profits).

Some of the quacky anti-medicine/anti-science memes they share are infuriatingly dangerous. An aunt whose husband owes his life to conventional cancer treatments reposts all the same anti-chemo BS her MLM pals like. I hope she's just doing it to fit in and not because she genuinely believes bananas and positive thinking are all you need to beat a serious illness.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: hettie1 on August 23, 2017, 12:07:06 PM
UGH - I HATE MLM's.  At least 7 many friends have reached out to me "out of the blue" wanting to get together and "catch up" - I used to be excited to see old friends.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, lol.  After a few dissappointing get togethers, I now sadly have to ask people what they want to catch up about before agreeing to get together.
After choosing not to buy whatever they were trying to sell, I never heard from any of the "friends" again.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: katstache92 on August 24, 2017, 05:49:42 AM
A friend from high school recently contacted me out of the blue.  She is a Rodan + Fields person.  I said no to being interested but she still sent me the telephone number to call to listen to a pitch.

Anyway, she just quit her full time teaching job.  As far as I can tell, she hasn't picked something else up, so I guess she's selling Rodan + Fields full time?  I wonder what will happen when people stop their initial "okay you're my friend I'll buy something" orders?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Trudie on August 24, 2017, 09:32:20 AM
In simple terms, who has the time?  I don't enjoy shopping -- period -- and try to spend as little time as possible doing it.  So, I'm not going to sit in a room for three hours and do it.  I always have "other commitments," even if that commitment is to dinner with my husband or working out.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 24, 2017, 12:37:09 PM
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

What's scary is some of them giving out medical advice when they shouldn't be. The essential oils MLM people tell their customers it's okay to ingest the oils. IT IS NOT. It can be very dangerous. Some of the oils can interact in bad ways with medications that people take. Some of the oils, if ingested, can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. I wish the FDA would crack down on these essential oil companies (Young Living, etc) and put them out of business altogether.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 24, 2017, 12:39:23 PM
A friend from high school recently contacted me out of the blue.  She is a Rodan + Fields person.  I said no to being interested but she still sent me the telephone number to call to listen to a pitch.

Anyway, she just quit her full time teaching job.  As far as I can tell, she hasn't picked something else up, so I guess she's selling Rodan + Fields full time?  I wonder what will happen when people stop their initial "okay you're my friend I'll buy something" orders?

That's the problem. Once you have your first MLM party, and you've sold to all your friends and family members, you're left with cold calling or door knocking to get more business.

So they start recruiting instead and annoying their friends and family even more. If they encounter negativity, they say "I am going to be a successful business person and you're just jealous". Or "you are trying to ruin my dream".
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 24, 2017, 01:14:35 PM
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

What's scary is some of them giving out medical advice when they shouldn't be. The essential oils MLM people tell their customers it's okay to ingest the oils. IT IS NOT. It can be very dangerous. Some of the oils can interact in bad ways with medications that people take. Some of the oils, if ingested, can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. I wish the FDA would crack down on these essential oil companies (Young Living, etc) and put them out of business altogether.

Before essential oils got trendy, I used to teach a perfumery class at a local shop and teach people how to make their own fragrances, candles, soap, bath salts, and other scented items.

The first 10 minutes were all about safety. Essential oils are highly flammable, many of them are absorbed through the skin in ways that cause permanent sensitivity to light, many are known carcinogens, and several are toxic. The ones that can induce miscarriage, for example, have very little gap between the effective dose and the toxic dose when ingested as an oil. The original herbal treatment relied on a tincture or decoction made from the original plant, the results of which are far less concentrated than an essential oil which is obtained through different processes.

You can't talk to an average group of people about relative concentrations of active chemicals in a solution, because they just don't understand the math or the science.

The other thing I did was to correct some of the "aromatherapy" bunkum. There have been a few controlled scientific studies that show human beings do respond to low levels of fragrance with physiological changes such as sexual arousal, but the fragrances touted as being aphrodisiacs did not produce the responses. For the most part it's a matter of psychological or even cultural association: good old classical and operant conditioning. There's nothing wrong with it, but people need to understand what they're doing with various fragrances, and why. They also need to know that some of the chemicals they're using have side effects. I don't approve of lavender or other plant estrogens being put into body care products used by men and adolescent boys, for example: there have been too many cases of gynecomastia caused by heavily fragranced commercially available soap products. So I'd identify the known carcinogens, estrogens, and photosensitizers and point them out so that people don't ingest them or put them on their skin.

Some of the local aromatherapists and alternative "healers" used to take my classes, scribbling notes wildly. I liked to think I helped make them marginally less dangerous to their customers. But most of them were shockingly ignorant about some very basic things.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 24, 2017, 01:41:13 PM
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

What's scary is some of them giving out medical advice when they shouldn't be. The essential oils MLM people tell their customers it's okay to ingest the oils. IT IS NOT. It can be very dangerous. Some of the oils can interact in bad ways with medications that people take. Some of the oils, if ingested, can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. I wish the FDA would crack down on these essential oil companies (Young Living, etc) and put them out of business altogether.

There are a couple Senators (Utah, Iowa, one of the ones with a short name) who block any attempts to regulate the supplement/quackery industry every year.  Federal departments like the FDA and USDA are grossly underfunded for the size of their mandate.  I haven't seen it for myself, but from what I've heard they pretty much leave it to the heavily biased Congressional subcommittees to tell them what their budget and priorities are each year.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 24, 2017, 02:46:52 PM
The first 10 minutes were all about safety. Essential oils are highly flammable, many of them are absorbed through the skin in ways that cause permanent sensitivity to light, many are known carcinogens, and several are toxic. The ones that can induce miscarriage, for example, have very little gap between the effective dose and the toxic dose when ingested as an oil.

That's scary. I don't think I want to buy them at all now.

I remember when potpourri candles were popular. They had little bits of wood chips and things in the wax to look "pretty". However, this makes the more flammable. Those suckers caught fire and almost burned down my bathroom.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 24, 2017, 04:59:43 PM
The first 10 minutes were all about safety. Essential oils are highly flammable, many of them are absorbed through the skin in ways that cause permanent sensitivity to light, many are known carcinogens, and several are toxic. The ones that can induce miscarriage, for example, have very little gap between the effective dose and the toxic dose when ingested as an oil.

That's scary. I don't think I want to buy them at all now.

I remember when potpourri candles were popular. They had little bits of wood chips and things in the wax to look "pretty". However, this makes the more flammable. Those suckers caught fire and almost burned down my bathroom.

It's OK to buy them, just don't think you're getting medicine, and don't chug it. If your goal is to make your bathroom smell pretty, feel free to put it in a diffuser but you're getting expensive Glade.

Medicinal uses that are validated by actual scientific research include:

* Eugenol (active ingredient in oil of cloves) is an effective topical dental anaesthetic but it doesn't work on everyone
* Lavender is an effective antiseptic, skin antifungal, and burn remedy but also a plant based estrogen.
* Tea tree oil is an effective skin cleanser to reduce acne, but it smells disgusting and there are better ones out there in my opinion.

Those are the only ones that come to mind. There might be others but I haven't kept up with them. It's not a long list and most of what essential oils are marketed for is pure quackery.

Some of the wood oils have good antifungal properties and are useful as an insecticide but are also carcinogens so drinking them is bad. The "pure" essential oils make lousy fragrance additions for candles and soap but are best for perfume. Oils with a synthetic carrier are preferred if you're going to make anything out of them especially combustible things.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 24, 2017, 05:28:08 PM

It's OK to buy them, just don't think you're getting medicine, and don't chug it. If your goal is to make your bathroom smell pretty, feel free to put it in a diffuser but you're getting expensive Glade.

Medicinal uses that are validated by actual scientific research include:

* Eugenol (active ingredient in oil of cloves) is an effective topical dental anaesthetic but it doesn't work on everyone
* Lavender is an effective antiseptic, skin antifungal, and burn remedy but also a plant based estrogen.
* Tea tree oil is an effective skin cleanser to reduce acne, but it smells disgusting and there are better ones out there in my opinion.

Those are the only ones that come to mind. There might be others but I haven't kept up with them. It's not a long list and most of what essential oils are marketed for is pure quackery.



The people pushing them only know what their company literature promotes about these oils. They have no medical background. I'm pretty sure oil of grapefruit might be carcinogenic in someone taking estrogen hormone therapy, because just grapefruit juice can raise estrogen levels and the highly concentrated oil could probably make it even worse. It scares me these MLMs are telling people to ingest the oils. "It's natural" is what they say, which is ignorant. Lots of things are natural, but are dangerous nonetheless.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Rowellen on August 24, 2017, 05:41:47 PM
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: solon on August 24, 2017, 06:32:08 PM
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

Carrots.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 24, 2017, 08:31:54 PM
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

Carrots.

Not so loud. That's the only vegetable my son will eat.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 24, 2017, 08:35:01 PM
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

I get the same vibe when people talk about "This ointment/oil/product kills cancer cells!"  Two things: 1) it probably happened in a single lab experiment that a media source caught wind of and 2) that doesn't mean it's fit for human consumption.  I see the cancer claim often countered by a stick figure holding a gun to a petri dish.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 24, 2017, 09:32:22 PM
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

I get the same vibe when people talk about "This ointment/oil/product kills cancer cells!"  Two things: 1) it probably happened in a single lab experiment that a media source caught wind of and 2) that doesn't mean it's fit for human consumption.  I see the cancer claim often countered by a stick figure holding a gun to a petri dish.

It's horrible for them to say that to someone that really does have a serious disease. They don't know that some product will kill any type of disease and are giving the person false hope. Or if the person tries it as a "cure" and it doesn't work, they will just feel worse.

One of those essential oil freaks stated on facebook that rubbing cedarwood oil into a bald head will make hair grow back. It doesn't work. My  husband tried it. It just made his head smell like cedarwood oil.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Warlord1986 on August 25, 2017, 07:40:59 AM
The chick who got into Rodan and Fields recently invited me to a party after years of no communication. I declined.

The language and tone of her commercial posts is really weird. It's all about her 'Rodan and Fields journey that begins now!' as if this is some heavy philosophical thing she's exploring. There was an online party that was announced with the following spiel:

"Friends!!! If you've been wondering why I joined Rodan +Fields and why this is such an amazing opportunity, I'd like to invite you to this amazing event! You'll hear the LIVE stories of 10 people and you WILL be inspired. You will hear stories from people like me who literally JUST joined and from those who have been in this life changing business for YEARS. I'm honored and humbled because they asked ME to speak! ME!!!! Crazy right?!
Come! Listen! Be inspired! Learn! See my face! Comment below or PM if you'd like a special invite."

She's also started attaching sales crap to her pictures about kids. "Here's my kid! Also lashboost is back in stock!"
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 25, 2017, 08:14:48 AM
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

I get the same vibe when people talk about "This ointment/oil/product kills cancer cells!"  Two things: 1) it probably happened in a single lab experiment that a media source caught wind of and 2) that doesn't mean it's fit for human consumption.  I see the cancer claim often countered by a stick figure holding a gun to a petri dish.

It's horrible for them to say that to someone that really does have a serious disease. They don't know that some product will kill any type of disease and are giving the person false hope. Or if the person tries it as a "cure" and it doesn't work, they will just feel worse.

One of those essential oil freaks stated on facebook that rubbing cedarwood oil into a bald head will make hair grow back. It doesn't work. My  husband tried it. It just made his head smell like cedarwood oil.

It'll make a melanoma grow. All the wood oils are mild carcinogens. That includes pine, spruce, and cedar, and juniper.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Trudie on August 25, 2017, 08:23:07 AM
Let's not forget that the current Secretary of Education made her fortune from the  (Sc)Amway empire -- among other faults.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Proud Foot on August 25, 2017, 09:20:53 AM
Let's not forget that the current Secretary of Education made inherited/married into her fortune from the  (Sc)Amway empire -- among other faults.

FTFY. Not to forget her father founded a manufacturing business which was sold in 1996 for $1.35B (not sure how much he owned or how much she received from the sale).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 26, 2017, 08:57:21 AM
Let's not forget that the current Secretary of Education made her fortune from the  (Sc)Amway empire -- among other faults.

Yes, and that's one of the many reasons I don't like that particular person of which you speak.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chraurelius on August 26, 2017, 01:07:21 PM
Her brother started Blackwater, looks like being unethical runs in the family.  She herself spent a decade and millions of dollars advocating for charter schools in Michigan, which are no better than the public schools.  She's still in favor of them;  doesn't want facts to get in the way.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ABC123 on August 27, 2017, 10:38:43 AM
"Sign up under me for my cannabis oil mlm and I will give you a free mascara for women or a shirt for men.  Such a great deal, don't wait or I might run out."

Really?  What does mascara have to do with pot?  Or is this just the stock you have left over from the R&F crap you gave up on?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on August 27, 2017, 02:33:48 PM
UGH - I HATE MLM's.  At least 7 many friends have reached out to me "out of the blue" wanting to get together and "catch up" - I used to be excited to see old friends.

If part of us spending time together involves you making money off it, that's not freindship that's an escort service.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on August 29, 2017, 11:45:29 AM
More lularoe news: http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/08/27/Original-Theft  Stealing a design off Spoonflower (a fabric website), changing the colors, but leaving the original designer's watermark.

In better news, I discovered Tupperware has recipes on their website.  There are a few I want to try...
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: eddiejoe on August 29, 2017, 12:03:10 PM

"Friends!!! If you've been wondering why I joined Rodan +Fields Scientology and why this is such an amazing opportunity, I'd like to invite you to this amazing event! You'll hear the LIVE stories of 10 people and you WILL be inspired. You will hear stories from people like me who literally JUST joined and from those who have been in this life changing business Religion for YEARS. I'm honored and humbled because they asked ME to speak! ME!!!! Crazy right?!
Come! Listen! Be inspired! Learn! See my face! Comment below or PM if you'd like a special invite."


All I did was change two words.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on August 29, 2017, 12:19:59 PM
More lularoe news: http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/08/27/Original-Theft  Stealing a design off Spoonflower (a fabric website), changing the colors, but leaving the original designer's watermark.

In better news, I discovered Tupperware has recipes on their website.  There are a few I want to try...

So what happens with the inventory already purchased by the Lularoe providers?  Will the parent company replace it, refund them, or give them the shaft?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 30, 2017, 01:23:51 PM
Someone recently in a facebook discussion group insisted that MLMs are smart because "that's how Warren Buffett got rich".
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Smokystache on August 30, 2017, 02:44:13 PM
 
Someone recently in a facebook discussion group insisted that MLMs are smart because "that's how Warren Buffett got rich".


I guess Buffet/Berkshire owns Pampered Chef. But I think it is a pretty safe bet that PC is not the primary driver of Berkshire growth.

I see that PC websites really like to tout Buffet's name to try to get new consultants. But this is what we've always known, MLM really is a great way to get rich .... but only if you own the whole dang company.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Warlord1986 on August 30, 2017, 02:53:59 PM

"Friends!!! If you've been wondering why I joined Rodan +Fields Scientology and why this is such an amazing opportunity, I'd like to invite you to this amazing event! You'll hear the LIVE stories of 10 people and you WILL be inspired. You will hear stories from people like me who literally JUST joined and from those who have been in this life changing business Religion for YEARS. I'm honored and humbled because they asked ME to speak! ME!!!! Crazy right?!
Come! Listen! Be inspired! Learn! See my face! Comment below or PM if you'd like a special invite."


All I did was change two words.

That gave me chills.

She's still mixing promotions with pictures of her kids.

Today, I'm incredibly blessed to be able to stay home with my children. I'm here for all of the big "firsts" and for all of the perfect moments in between. My face is the one my children see when they wake up. Rodan + Fields has already been life changing for me and I'm only in my first month of business, though I've been using the products for 10 months. So today, I'd like to bless YOU with a gift if you place an order today: a FREE Redefine Eye Cream ($62 value).
If you take advantage of one our amazing bundle deals happening right now, this is a savings of OVER $150! Message me to cash in on this deal! You can always just comment how adorable my sweet (baby's name) is sleeping too.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: RWD on August 30, 2017, 03:09:49 PM
Someone recently in a facebook discussion group insisted that MLMs are smart because "that's how Warren Buffett got rich".


I guess Buffet/Berkshire owns Pampered Chef. But I think it is a pretty safe bet that PC is not the primary driver of Berkshire growth.

I see that PC websites really like to tout Buffet's name to try to get new consultants. But this is what we've always known, MLM really is a great way to get rich .... but only if you own the whole dang company.

They acquired Pampered Chef in 2002 (http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/news/sep2302.html). Buffett has been investing since the 1950s, and has been a billionaire since the 1990s. So Pampered Chef has nothing to do with his accumulation of wealth.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 30, 2017, 08:48:51 PM
Today, I'm incredibly blessed to be able to stay home with my children. I'm here for all of the big "firsts" and for all of the perfect moments in between. My face is the one my children see when they wake up. Rodan + Fields has already been life changing for me and I'm only in my first month of business, though I've been using the products for 10 months. So today, I'd like to bless YOU with a gift if you place an order today: a FREE Redefine Eye Cream ($62 value).
If you take advantage of one our amazing bundle deals happening right now, this is a savings of OVER $150! Message me to cash in on this deal! You can always just comment how adorable my sweet (baby's name) is sleeping too.

I can imagine this appeals to people who think they're being financially smart. Saving $150! wow! And just what they need, redefining eye cream.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 30, 2017, 09:03:18 PM
Today, I'm incredibly blessed to be able to stay home with my children. I'm here for all of the big "firsts" and for all of the perfect moments in between. My face is the one my children see when they wake up. Rodan + Fields has already been life changing for me and I'm only in my first month of business, though I've been using the products for 10 months. So today, I'd like to bless YOU with a gift if you place an order today: a FREE Redefine Eye Cream ($62 value).
If you take advantage of one our amazing bundle deals happening right now, this is a savings of OVER $150! Message me to cash in on this deal! You can always just comment how adorable my sweet (baby's name) is sleeping too.

I can imagine this appeals to people who think they're being financially smart. Saving $150! wow! And just what they need, redefining eye cream.

How did they define eye cream prior to that point?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: soccerluvof4 on August 31, 2017, 01:39:11 PM
I didnt read back 9 pages, did the first but by me and on my facebook it seemed like two years ago I couldnt check my FB page with out a pitch for Norwex , now the adds are even more aggressive but its all plexus. Is that an MLM? I am  just shocked how many people I know are pushing the stuff. Alot of times it seems to be the same people going from one to another or selling more than one.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: RWD on August 31, 2017, 01:50:53 PM
[...] now the adds are even more aggressive but its all plexus. Is that an MLM?
Yes.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: soccerluvof4 on August 31, 2017, 02:04:36 PM
[...] now the adds are even more aggressive but its all plexus. Is that an MLM?
Yes.




Thanks, Thats what I thought. Started with one person and now at least a half a dozen. And they are intense.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LifeHappens on August 31, 2017, 02:12:11 PM
[...] now the adds are even more aggressive but its all plexus. Is that an MLM?
Yes.

Plexus has an FDA warning letter out against it. They claim all kinds of outrageous and contradictory health outcomes. Stay far, far away from it.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on August 31, 2017, 03:00:16 PM
Someone recently in a facebook discussion group insisted that MLMs are smart because "that's how Warren Buffett got rich".


I guess Buffet/Berkshire owns Pampered Chef. But I think it is a pretty safe bet that PC is not the primary driver of Berkshire growth.

I see that PC websites really like to tout Buffet's name to try to get new consultants. But this is what we've always known, MLM really is a great way to get rich .... but only if you own the whole dang company.

They acquired Pampered Chef in 2002 (http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/news/sep2302.html). Buffett has been investing since the 1950s, and has been a billionaire since the 1990s. So Pampered Chef has nothing to do with his accumulation of wealth.

But they must believe he started out as a Pampered Chef Consultant.

It's so sad i could almost cry.

:(

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on August 31, 2017, 08:35:10 PM
Warren Buffet has never invited me to a Pampered Chef party.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Rimu05 on September 02, 2017, 03:25:49 PM
The worst thing about all the 4 people who tried to get me to MLM was that they all believe and one of them still believes that there is going to be future rewards there as long as he stays in it. The worst thing is how hard one of them is trying to get me into it. Invite me to seminars, etc. In college, a guy I was helping with an essay is the first person who tried to introduce me to it but I was a curious person in those days and I told him, you know this sounds like a pyramid scheme... Is this even legal? At that time, I thought it wasn't legal and it was super fishy. I mean pay to enter, recruit people, etc.

I had to explain to a person that I am in a career right now with future prospects. If I put in the time he puts into MLM in to my actual job and continue networking and enhancing my resume, I could be making six figures in the future. If I dislike my current company, I can easily go to another with the skill set I've acquired.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 03, 2017, 08:58:07 AM
Warren Buffet has never invited me to a Pampered Chef party.

Me neither. I feel so hurt. :(
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: JAYSLOL on September 03, 2017, 09:24:15 AM
The worst thing about all the 4 people who tried to get me to MLM was that they all believe and one of them still believes that there is going to be future rewards there as long as he stays in it. The worst thing is how hard one of them is trying to get me into it. Invite me to seminars, etc. In college, a guy I was helping with an essay is the first person who tried to introduce me to it but I was a curious person in those days and I told him, you know this sounds like a pyramid scheme... Is this even legal? At that time, I thought it wasn't legal and it was super fishy. I mean pay to enter, recruit people, etc.

I had to explain to a person that I am in a career right now with future prospects. If I put in the time he puts into MLM in to my actual job and continue networking and enhancing my resume, I could be making six figures in the future. If I dislike my current company, I can easily go to another with the skill set I've acquired.

The same way an MLM person can go to a new MLM with the skills they've acquired.  Skills like paying money to join, destroying past friendships in a single message, and posting on Facebook all day.  You know, highly valued life skills. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Finances_With_Purpose on September 04, 2017, 05:01:06 PM
God these drive me up the WALL. I'm right in the prime SAHP MLM age group. Large town/Small city. So much MLM trash. I never go to any of the parties. I get FB invites ALL the time. I've started replying to a lot of them with John Oliver's MLM clip ;) Not to close friends, just the 'friends of friends' who somehow find me.

For those who haven't seen it: https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI (https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI) John Oliver is always fantastic =) He swears a lot though, so be warned for 'sensitive ears'.

Oh, but you should see his piece on "retirement plans" a/k/a financial advisers and fees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 04, 2017, 05:50:46 PM
The same way an MLM person can go to a new MLM with the skills they've acquired.  Skills like paying money to join, destroying past friendships in a single message, and posting on Facebook all day.  You know, highly valued life skills.

:(
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on September 05, 2017, 06:24:37 AM
I just realized that only one letter (in the English Alphabet) separates MLM from MMM. And that one letter makes a HUGE difference in so many ways.
/DaytimeMusings
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: infogoon on September 05, 2017, 07:42:06 AM
Warren Buffet has never invited me to a Pampered Chef party.

I would buy some stoneware for that.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on September 05, 2017, 07:56:12 AM
Warren Buffet has never invited me to a Pampered Chef party.

I would buy some stoneware for that.

Seriously- I'd go to a Warren Buffet MLM any day. I'd buy all kinds of cookware, Jamberry, Younique, ugly leggings, whatever.

Think of how much the auctioned off sit-downs go with him each year.  And you get to chat with him just to buy some books, wraps, shakes, candles, whatever else home party sales sell.  :)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MsSindy on September 05, 2017, 10:13:06 AM
........

For those who haven't seen it: https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI (https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI) John Oliver is always fantastic =) He swears a lot though, so be warned for 'sensitive ears'.

Oh, but you should see his piece on "retirement plans" a/k/a financial advisers and fees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY)

This video is soooo funny!!  Totally worth the 30 minutes..... now off to watch some of his other stuff.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: JoJo on September 05, 2017, 05:11:33 PM
I just realized that only one letter (in the English Alphabet) separates MLM from MMM. And that one letter makes a HUGE difference in so many ways.
/DaytimeMusings

Blow your mind even more... MOM.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on September 05, 2017, 06:21:32 PM
I just realized that only one letter (in the English Alphabet) separates MLM from MMM. And that one letter makes a HUGE difference in so many ways.
/DaytimeMusings

Blow your mind even more... MOM.

But O is 3 letters away.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on September 06, 2017, 06:12:05 AM
I just realized that only one letter (in the English Alphabet) separates MLM from MMM. And that one letter makes a HUGE difference in so many ways.
/DaytimeMusings

Blow your mind even more... MOM.

But O is 3 letters away.

I cannot compute this mom joke.
But I know that MOM's slap can come fast and furious.
Source: #JingaNationLifeExperience
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on September 18, 2017, 07:14:08 PM
PSA:
Timeless Vie ( https://timelessvie.wordpress.com ) is one of the groups trying to bring awareness about the bad practices of MLM.
They've recently been the victims of malicious reports on facebook, and as a result their facebook page has been taken down.

There is a petition to bring it back:
https://www.change.org/p/facebook-bring-back-timeless-vie-on-facebook

They are one of the few websites trying to show the truth out about MLM and are one of the reasons I was able to see the problems when my little brother tried to get me to join his "great business opportunity". So, spreading the word if you want awareness groups like this one to survive: feel free to sign the petition.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: economista on September 25, 2017, 01:42:09 PM
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down.  We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them.  Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house.  I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no.  He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over.  We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing.  They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff.  In their house!  The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages. 

Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends.  We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup.  That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ixtap on September 25, 2017, 01:50:40 PM
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down.  We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them.  Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house.  I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no.  He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over.  We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing.  They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff.  In their house!  The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages. 

Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends.  We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup.  That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"

Well, they didn't buy anything from you, either, so you should be off the hook!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on September 25, 2017, 02:08:47 PM
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down.  We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them.  Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house.  I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no.  He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over.  We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing.  They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff.  In their house!  The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages. 

Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends.  We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup.  That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"

Is there a record to be broken on how many MLM products can be sold under the same roof? That makes me want to post the Ron Burgundy "I'm not mad, I'm impressed' meme.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 26, 2017, 08:54:44 AM
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down.  We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them.  Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house.  I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no.  He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over.  We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing.  They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff.  In their house!  The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages. 

Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends.  We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup.  That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"

It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: economista on September 26, 2017, 09:20:47 AM

It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.

I agree completely.  With all of our other friends we get together and have dinner, or game night.  I had never actually met this particular friend's wife, because we always say we need to get together but anytime they invite us to something it is a sales pitch.  If we invite them over, they can't come because they have something going on with their kids.  I was starting to feel guilty about it so we jumped at the chance to go to a party at their house.  Apparently that was a bad idea.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on September 26, 2017, 10:09:16 AM

It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.

I agree completely.  With all of our other friends we get together and have dinner, or game night.  I had never actually met this particular friend's wife, because we always say we need to get together but anytime they invite us to something it is a sales pitch.  If we invite them over, they can't come because they have something going on with their kids.  I was starting to feel guilty about it so we jumped at the chance to go to a party at their house.  Apparently that was a bad idea.

I hope this doesn't ever become part of my social life. I get together with friends for dinner parties and game nights and I would be pissed at all if it ever starts becoming a MLM thing. Of course I haven't been asked to buy anything from an MLM for ages, I credit it to me being honest when someone tried to pitch me, I told them, "I'm not going to buy that crap!" Felt guilty right away, but then smiled once I realized that this "friend" (more someone I know than a friend) wasn't going to bother pitching me again.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: onehair on September 26, 2017, 10:39:04 AM
Some of these products I never even heard of until this thread except for Avon and Lularoe.  I see Lularoe is starting to turn on its salespeople already.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on September 26, 2017, 10:41:08 AM

It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.

I agree completely.  With all of our other friends we get together and have dinner, or game night.  I had never actually met this particular friend's wife, because we always say we need to get together but anytime they invite us to something it is a sales pitch.  If we invite them over, they can't come because they have something going on with their kids.  I was starting to feel guilty about it so we jumped at the chance to go to a party at their house.  Apparently that was a bad idea.

Odd: business happens quite a bit at some of my parties, but it's not of the MLM type. Two guests, who start out as strangers but who become friendly over the course of the evening or else who know each other slightly but aren't close, suddenly realize they have an alignment of interests. One woman realized that her friend was an extremely good dog groomer, and started bringing her dogs to her. A drummer from one of my jam sessions got recruited by another guest who was putting a band together. A quilter who does longarm topstitching work for hire picked up a commission from the dog groomer. Then of course there's what I call the "gift shift": someone has something they don't use anymore, like an old chicken coop or a bunch of yarn scraps or baby clothes, who gives them to someone else who can use them. All of this builds trust, community, and social capital. Giving that up to push MLM doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 26, 2017, 10:45:54 AM

It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.

I agree completely.  With all of our other friends we get together and have dinner, or game night.  I had never actually met this particular friend's wife, because we always say we need to get together but anytime they invite us to something it is a sales pitch.  If we invite them over, they can't come because they have something going on with their kids.  I was starting to feel guilty about it so we jumped at the chance to go to a party at their house.  Apparently that was a bad idea.

I'm in a moms of multiples club, and none of the women seem to be interested at all in social gatherings, unless it involves them being able to pitch their MLM.  I'd say about 50-60% of the moms in this group are involved in MLM. They join social groups for that very purpose. They aren't really interested in making friends. Some send me friend requests on facebook as part of their MLM networking. I've never met them and don't accept friend requests from people I haven't met in person.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on September 26, 2017, 11:08:18 AM
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down.  We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them.  Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house.  I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no.  He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over.  We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing.  They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff.  In their house!  The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages. 

Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends.  We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup.  That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"

No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on September 26, 2017, 11:30:45 AM
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down.  We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them.  Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house.  I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no.  He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over.  We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing.  They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff.  In their house!  The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages. 

Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends.  We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup.  That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"

No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Anyone who did that to me would no longer be my friend. There are just so many better ways to entertain.

I'm also a fan of honesty in entertainment. If I'm going to host, say, a wedding shower or a baby shower for someone, I come right out and say so. People still come, because the shower events are not lame.

The last wedding shower I hosted involved team BattleShots and Cards Against Humanity. A few years ago I threw a "manly tool party" as a groom shower; I made him register at a couple hardware stores that interested him, there was a keg of beer, and on a whim I wrote "dress like a pirate" on each invitation. Most people did, and I duct taped a pirate hook to the guest of honor's dominant hand and made him open packages that way. There have been linen themed tea parties for teetotaler brides, a jam session for a musical groom-to-be, and one of the next showers I'm planning is going to be a quilting bee. Those who have sewing machines will bring them, everyone will contribute labor as opposed to things that cost money (I can find work for the non-crafters at the cutting table or the ironing board), and the soon to be married couple will end up with an awesome quilt that they get to see made.

In fairness, a MLM themed party where all the guests are MLM'ers might just constitute a "fun" theme party where they all agree to buy each other's overpriced crap. But I'd hate to go to such a thing myself; I'd feel like the only human at a vampire convention.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on September 26, 2017, 12:08:53 PM
...

No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Anyone who did that to me would no longer be my friend. There are just so many better ways to entertain.
...
In fairness, a MLM themed party where all the guests are MLM'ers might just constitute a "fun" theme party where they all agree to buy each other's overpriced crap. But I'd hate to go to such a thing myself; I'd feel like the only human at a vampire convention.

Particularly if the party organizer knows for a fact you're not an MLM participant and you've expressed reservations about being around those activities in the past.  As we've discussed on here plenty of times, the business model of MLMs requires you and sometimes flat out encourages the unrepentant exploitation of personal relationships.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: chaskavitch on September 26, 2017, 12:51:06 PM
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down.  We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them.  Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house.  I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no.  He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over.  We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing.  They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff.  In their house!  The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages. 

Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends.  We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup.  That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"

No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Anyone who did that to me would no longer be my friend. There are just so many better ways to entertain.

I'm also a fan of honesty in entertainment. If I'm going to host, say, a wedding shower or a baby shower for someone, I come right out and say so. People still come, because the shower events are not lame.

The last wedding shower I hosted involved team BattleShots and Cards Against Humanity. A few years ago I threw a "manly tool party" as a groom shower; I made him register at a couple hardware stores that interested him, there was a keg of beer, and on a whim I wrote "dress like a pirate" on each invitation. Most people did, and I duct taped a pirate hook to the guest of honor's dominant hand and made him open packages that way. There have been linen themed tea parties for teetotaler brides, a jam session for a musical groom-to-be, and one of the next showers I'm planning is going to be a quilting bee. Those who have sewing machines will bring them, everyone will contribute labor as opposed to things that cost money (I can find work for the non-crafters at the cutting table or the ironing board), and the soon to be married couple will end up with an awesome quilt that they get to see made.

In fairness, a MLM themed party where all the guests are MLM'ers might just constitute a "fun" theme party where they all agree to buy each other's overpriced crap. But I'd hate to go to such a thing myself; I'd feel like the only human at a vampire convention.

These are the absolute best shower ideas I've ever seen in my life.  Job well done!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: NoVa on September 26, 2017, 01:07:18 PM
This is from Living Stingy: "Any business relationship predicated on a lie, no matter how trivial, will inevitably go downhill from there."
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on September 26, 2017, 02:16:55 PM
This is from Living Stingy: "Any business relationship predicated on a lie, no matter how trivial, will inevitably go downhill from there."

Filed under the category of "Well, no shit."  It's sad that that statement has to be put to paper to remind folks.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 26, 2017, 02:19:28 PM


No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: economista on September 26, 2017, 03:24:40 PM


No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.

That's horrible!!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Rowellen on September 26, 2017, 07:01:12 PM


No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.

"Oh sure. Of course you can have MY gift back. Here you g... oh whoops silly me I'm so clumsy and now it's broken."


I have received another Facebook "invite" today. From someone who hasn't contacted me in over 15 years. R+F skinfresh. Delete. Unfriend.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Cpa Cat on September 26, 2017, 07:32:18 PM


No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.

The Premier Jewelry parties that I've attended were way more pleasant and focused on the jewelry than that!

BUT - the "free gift" is always a trick. At the ones I've been to, inside the box is a piece of jewelry that you could keep if you agreed to host a party. If you didn't want to host a party, you had to return the box/jewelry. Some gift!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on September 26, 2017, 08:01:53 PM
Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party flea market taking place at his house. 

FIFY
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 26, 2017, 09:03:21 PM


No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.

That's horrible!!

Oh yes, it was rude, I just gave it back to them. I found out later that the gift was a cheap, stretchy bracelet with plastic beads. Crap jewelry.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on September 26, 2017, 10:44:00 PM


No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.

That's horrible!!

Oh yes, it was rude, I just gave it back to them. I found out later that the gift was a cheap, stretchy bracelet with plastic beads. Crap jewelry.

How else could they afford to hand them out as gifts?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on September 27, 2017, 08:05:38 AM


No, he absolutely lied to you.  These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.

Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.

That's horrible!!

Oh yes, it was rude, I just gave it back to them. I found out later that the gift was a cheap, stretchy bracelet with plastic beads. Crap jewelry.

How else could they afford to hand them out as gifts?

I propose a spontaneous return gift of a generous mooning, en route to the door.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 27, 2017, 08:19:49 AM
Just be wary any time a "free gift" is offered. There are often strings attached and/or the gift is worthless. Years ago, my friend hosted a Mary Kay party in her home, providing all the food, drinks and cleaning up afterward. The MK rep had promised a free lipstick for hosting the party. Which would be a small token of appreciation. However, what she gave her instead was a lipstick sample, just a small pat of lipstick on a piece of cardboard. It was so tacky, considering how hard my friend had worked to host the party for this woman. She didn't even get a thank you note in the mail. Can these ladies get any tackier??

On a personal note, I can't stand those little pink polyester suits that MK women wear with the stick pins and scarf. I can see them coming a mile away. They are everywhere in my city, where MK has it's corporate headquarters.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on September 27, 2017, 10:00:50 AM
Just be wary any time a "free gift" is offered. There are often strings attached and/or the gift is worthless.

I tried a few of those "sign up for free" deals to get coupons or travel points and the like.  To my horror I discovered all the caveats.  They give out your email to dozens of other vendors who spam the hell out of you and they often require you to sign up to other websites without you realizing it. We received a "welcome to the neighborhood" mailer full of coupons for local businesses.  There was a free car wash, no strings attached.  There was a free large one topping pizza, no strings attached(!).  Then there was "sign up for these twice a month boxes of snacks we'll mail to your door. The first one is free, we just need your credit card info."  Yeah, I've seen this movie before.  Despite them saying it's for admin purposes, they'll manage to squeeze at least one payment from you before you can cancel.  The form even said on top "you only pay for the boxes you order" while the bottom of the form said "it's a monthly subscription." That one went into the trash.  It took my wife and I a few bruises before we learned to put up the armor against hard-sell tactics too. We've found it much easier to just ignore a product or deal that may actually be beneficial if the free gift or too-good-to-be-true alarm goes off.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 27, 2017, 11:13:01 AM
Just be wary any time a "free gift" is offered. There are often strings attached and/or the gift is worthless.

I tried a few of those "sign up for free" deals to get coupons or travel points and the like.  To my horror I discovered all the caveats.  They give out your email to dozens of other vendors who spam the hell out of you and they often require you to sign up to other websites without you realizing it. We received a "welcome to the neighborhood" mailer full of coupons for local businesses.  There was a free car wash, no strings attached.  There was a free large one topping pizza, no strings attached(!).  Then there was "sign up for these twice a month boxes of snacks we'll mail to your door. The first one is free, we just need your credit card info."  Yeah, I've seen this movie before.  Despite them saying it's for admin purposes, they'll manage to squeeze at least one payment from you before you can cancel.  The form even said on top "you only pay for the boxes you order" while the bottom of the form said "it's a monthly subscription." That one went into the trash.  It took my wife and I a few bruises before we learned to put up the armor against hard-sell tactics too. We've found it much easier to just ignore a product or deal that may actually be beneficial if the free gift or too-good-to-be-true alarm goes off.

I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on September 27, 2017, 12:27:45 PM
Just be wary any time a "free gift" is offered. There are often strings attached and/or the gift is worthless. Years ago, my friend hosted a Mary Kay party in her home, providing all the food, drinks and cleaning up afterward. The MK rep had promised a free lipstick for hosting the party. Which would be a small token of appreciation. However, what she gave her instead was a lipstick sample, just a small pat of lipstick on a piece of cardboard. It was so tacky, considering how hard my friend had worked to host the party for this woman. She didn't even get a thank you note in the mail. Can these ladies get any tackier??

On a personal note, I can't stand those little pink polyester suits that MK women wear with the stick pins and scarf. I can see them coming a mile away. They are everywhere in my city, where MK has it's corporate headquarters.
Years ago i worked with someone who sold Mary Kay. She became such a PIA bothering all the other female employees they started calling her "Mary C*nt" behind her back.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: thesis on September 27, 2017, 01:15:32 PM
MLMs bring back some of my worst memories in life.

My parents went broke during the financial crisis, right in 2007. During the process they had each started some personal side businesses that were MLM-related, one of which had been introduced to them by my former private lessons music instructor, who was on his own downward cycle. Unlike him and his wife, my parents didn't later divorce, something I'm eternally grateful for.

My mom got involved with a health product. We were always kind of a junk food family, though not morbidly obese. I think she felt bad. She tried to make me take those products as well, which led to some adolescent rage and tears, and eventually she relented. My dad got involved with some side sales of products at gas stations. Frequently items were stolen by customers or the gas stations lied and didn't report the full sales. They lost a lot trying to scrape extra money.

I think my parents, like most people, had a hard time understanding opportunity cost and the cost of one's time. I've had several friends do MLMs for side money, but none ever worked out well for them. From the wikipedia page: "Studies by independent consumer watchdog agencies have shown that between 990 and 999 of every 1000 participants (i.e. between 99.0% and 99.9% of all participants) in MLMs in fact lose money."

If my dad had spent that time and money getting his CLD Class B license, it would have made him untold tens of thousands more over the years. My mom still makes some side cash from candles, not associated with any MLM thank God, but even then they take whole evenings to make for "extra cash" returns.

I would tell anybody, absolutely anybody, to invest in employable skills, or skills that will make you more money, and not to waste time and effort getting scammed....
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on September 27, 2017, 03:08:55 PM
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ixtap on September 27, 2017, 03:12:19 PM
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.

I once had a subscription that I could not cancel. I had the CC company stop payment, instead.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: lifeisanadventure on September 28, 2017, 03:59:58 AM
A friend started an MLM in skincare and wanted me to have a party.  When I found out a package containing a small bottle of shampoo and conditioner cost $85 I politely declined.

A friend had a Tupperware party and I went along just to get the attendance numbers up..I had strictly told her I would not be buying.  She was absolutely ok with that.  The Tupperware consultant, however, was not.  She was so cranky I didn't buy anything.  I got the look and she wouldn't talk to me.  Plus the party went for an hour + and for a large part of that we played 'games' and for some reason everyone took them so seriously.  It was incredibly boring and very very competitive and snarky.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: rockstache on September 28, 2017, 07:23:00 AM
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.

I once had a subscription that I could not cancel. I had the CC company stop payment, instead.

+1   I use a credit card for absolutely everything I can. There is a lot of protection there.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on September 28, 2017, 08:35:45 AM
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.

I once had a subscription that I could not cancel. I had the CC company stop payment, instead.

+1   I use a credit card for absolutely everything I can. There is a lot of protection there.
I agree, a credit card (reconciled and paid off each billing cycle) is a great way to protect yourself when paying for things. I do sometimes use cash (and very rarely write a check). I also use online bill pay for reoccuring payments that don't accept credit cards. However I've never used a debit card (except for ATM transactions with PIN). Unauthorized charge on credit card - dispute the charge and never have to pay (unless the bank is convinced that you did authorize the charge); unauthorized charge on debit card - wait until bank resolves the issue before money is returned to your account.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: YogiKitti on September 29, 2017, 06:51:08 PM
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on September 30, 2017, 11:06:00 AM
I agree, a credit card (reconciled and paid off each billing cycle) is a great way to protect yourself when paying for things. I do sometimes use cash (and very rarely write a check). I also use online bill pay for reoccuring payments that don't accept credit cards. However I've never used a debit card (except for ATM transactions with PIN). Unauthorized charge on credit card - dispute the charge and never have to pay (unless the bank is convinced that you did authorize the charge); unauthorized charge on debit card - wait until bank resolves the issue before money is returned to your account.

That's why Dave Ramsey is wrong to tell people to never, ever use a credit card.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: RWD on September 30, 2017, 11:28:10 AM
I agree, a credit card (reconciled and paid off each billing cycle) is a great way to protect yourself when paying for things. I do sometimes use cash (and very rarely write a check). I also use online bill pay for reoccuring payments that don't accept credit cards. However I've never used a debit card (except for ATM transactions with PIN). Unauthorized charge on credit card - dispute the charge and never have to pay (unless the bank is convinced that you did authorize the charge); unauthorized charge on debit card - wait until bank resolves the issue before money is returned to your account.

That's why Dave Ramsey is wrong to tell people to never, ever use a credit card.

That and other reasons, like cash back rewards.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on September 30, 2017, 02:23:36 PM
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 01, 2017, 10:05:08 AM
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...

No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running.  In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ixtap on October 01, 2017, 10:08:59 AM
Evidently, there is an MLM that sells toothpaste?

One of the most strident MLMers I know is a nun.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on October 01, 2017, 10:51:25 AM
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...

No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running.  In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.

But they're self-employed CEOs. They said so on Linkedin!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on October 01, 2017, 11:01:38 AM
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on October 01, 2017, 11:04:26 AM
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...

No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running.  In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.

I almost typed this exact reply.  There is already real business license.  And a real CEO.  And it's not the SAHM schilling the wares.  They are distributors/salesmen with a flexible schedule, not "business owners", "bosses", "CEOs".
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on October 01, 2017, 04:20:15 PM
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...

No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running.  In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.

I know what you are saying -- that would be a great response to a woman touting #girlboss -- "how much did your business license cost?"...

 But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure). 
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage.   I do, I sell my services  and no one even comes to my home.  A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....

Hmmm... gets me thinking about more than just MLMs, then.. but about some of the "work from home" commission sales roles and such.   The produce broker I know has a business license (100% work from home, yet no one goes to his home nor goods), but not the sales rep that works for a company selling industrial sensors (he takes the company van and travels to client sites to do the selling there, but calls them from home office, paperwork at home, etc).

Anyone know the general rule of thumb when one needs (or is supposed to get) a city business license to work from home?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 01, 2017, 05:07:25 PM

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply. 

Price has gone way up then. Those 30 day shake supplies used to be around $90-100.

And they taste terrible.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 01, 2017, 05:09:55 PM
Anyone know the general rule of thumb when one needs (or is supposed to get) a city business license to work from home?

Lots of people work from home and if they work for an employer, they probably don't need a license of any sort. Why would they? It's not like anyone knows what they're doing in their house. I work from home and don't have any kind of license.

People who cook things and sell them from their own kitchen, often have to get a license in some states. And have to get their kitchen inspected, too. That's only one example I can think of.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on October 01, 2017, 05:34:05 PM
Anyone know the general rule of thumb when one needs (or is supposed to get) a city business license to work from home?

Lots of people work from home and if they work for an employer, they probably don't need a license of any sort. Why would they? It's not like anyone knows what they're doing in their house. I work from home and don't have any kind of license.

People who cook things and sell them from their own kitchen, often have to get a license in some states. And have to get their kitchen inspected, too. That's only one example I can think of.

Okay, I was very curious, so I looked up the local reg's...

"Business" means the carrying on of a commercial or industrial
undertaking of any kind or nature, or the providing of
professional, personal or other services for the purpose of
gain or profit;

Except as hereinafter provided, no person shall carry on a business within the
Municipality, without holding a valid and subsisting licence for the
business so carried on.

.....
I would guess that if you are an employee of a business with a license, that you don't need your own license...  BUT.. the bylaw states that a multiple location license is needed if you operate in more than one location, and that a license is required for every city.  (we live in a greater area that has several municipalities)...

So, for a MLM, someone in the upper levels of the MLM would need to have a license that covers you in your location...and covers multiple offices being allowed..(especially if sales occur from the homes).    If not, then you are required to get a license, or face the chance of a $500 fine (per day) until you get one.

That would be a great question for the upline, anyway.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on October 02, 2017, 08:31:55 AM
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure). 
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage.   I do, I sell my services  and no one even comes to my home.  A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Depending on the city, they might need a licenses if they have customers coming to their home to purchase things. If they are working from home, but don't have customers regularly coming to their home to purchase things, the business license of the MLM should be enough if valid in their state. Since most of the time they go to client homes to host "parties", most MLM "businesses" are not regularly selling from their home.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on October 02, 2017, 08:39:36 AM

That would be a great question for the upline, anyway.

"Your" upline won't know anything. 

/my experience with a few MLMs
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on October 02, 2017, 09:33:12 AM
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure). 
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage.   I do, I sell my services  and no one even comes to my home.  A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Depending on the city, they might need a licenses if they have customers coming to their home to purchase things. If they are working from home, but don't have customers regularly coming to their home to purchase things, the business license of the MLM should be enough if valid in their state. Since most of the time they go to client homes to host "parties", most MLM "businesses" are not regularly selling from their home.

At the end of the day, I guess that the answer is "for profit".. 
On line sales reps and home-based businesses that don't employ others also require a city license to operate, but not charities or if you are selling goods (garage sale once a year) at a loss.

If it is generally accepted that MLMs do not make profit at that (home) location, then a reps don't need a license to operate.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: solon on October 02, 2017, 09:51:43 AM
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure). 
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage.   I do, I sell my services  and no one even comes to my home.  A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Depending on the city, they might need a licenses if they have customers coming to their home to purchase things. If they are working from home, but don't have customers regularly coming to their home to purchase things, the business license of the MLM should be enough if valid in their state. Since most of the time they go to client homes to host "parties", most MLM "businesses" are not regularly selling from their home.

At the end of the day, I guess that the answer is "for profit".. 
On line sales reps and home-based businesses that don't employ others also require a city license to operate, but not charities or if you are selling goods (garage sale once a year) at a loss.

If it is generally accepted that MLMs do not make profit at that (home) location, then a reps don't need a license to operate.

That's pretty sad. "You don't need a license because you're not going to make any money."
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BJacks on October 02, 2017, 11:26:02 AM
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.

I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.

She isn't super pushy but it just makes me shake my head because I can't understand the draw of something that to me is obviously a terrible idea/plan.

Her husband works six days a week, long hours, so that she can stay home with their kids and I just see it all as sabotaging his efforts for their family.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: saguaro on October 02, 2017, 11:57:16 AM
Years ago, I started a new job and one of my coworkers asked me to meet her for a chat in the lunchroom.  I thought it was work related but no, it was a pitch for her MLM though I forget what it was.    Turns out that workplace was a hotbed of people selling everything from their kid's school fundraising to MLM's to their own side business (one guy did have his own brand of barbeque sauce that was quite good tbh).  You were constantly approached by someone hawking their wares, whether it was to contribute to something, buy something or go in with someone on something, and it was disruptive enough that the company finally enacted a policy restricting it, not forbidding it outright, but their restrictions had the same result.   A lot of griping and grumbling but it was a relief to me as I was one of the few mustachian people to say no to everything and now it saved me the trouble. 

I never go to things like Tupperware parties these days, in fact, I can count doing it only twice.  Once in college just to experience it (still have the breadbasket I bought at that party) and another time a few years ago when a friend hosted a Pampered Chef party.  I only did the latter strictly to support my friend who lost her newborn grandchild recently and the party was a way to take her mind off things, so I decided this was not the time to be a party pooper.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on October 02, 2017, 12:12:26 PM
I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on October 02, 2017, 01:14:33 PM
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.


If you require the charity of others to break even as a milestone, you might want to rethink your business strategy.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 02, 2017, 02:28:00 PM
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.

I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.

I got invited to one of those stupid online "parties" for Usborne. I didn't even bother explaining that books are a waste of money. My 2 year olds just rip them apart (yes, even the board books). Books clutter our home and we tend to read, then donate. If I need to get children books I get them from the library when they are older. It cost ZERO dollars to rent from the library.  Usborne requires you to get monthly shipments and you pay around $50 a month for a "book club membership" that's about $600 because you're in a contract for at least a year. I couldn't be more stupid than to budget $600 this year just for purchasing books.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on October 02, 2017, 03:10:38 PM
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.

I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.

I got invited to one of those stupid online "parties" for Usborne. I didn't even bother explaining that books are a waste of money. My 2 year olds just rip them apart (yes, even the board books). Books clutter our home and we tend to read, then donate. If I need to get children books I get them from the library when they are older. It cost ZERO dollars to rent from the library.  Usborne requires you to get monthly shipments and you pay around $50 a month for a "book club membership" that's about $600 because you're in a contract for at least a year. I couldn't be more stupid than to budget $600 this year just for purchasing books.
My cousin got into the Usborne books thing right when she had a baby.  I felt a little bad for her, as she had gotten laid off from her teaching job RIGHT when she was going on maternity leave.  (Private Catholic school with shitty nuns in charge.  They let a few people go, replaced them, they quit in protest...anyway, it's a huge mess and 2 years later they are talking about shutting down the school.)

Anyway, my younger son is 3 years older, so great time to buy books!  Except: no.  We still had all the kiddie books from kid #1 (mostly gifts and hand me downs), AND we signed him up for the Dolly Parton reading library thing.  We've got shelves and shelves of kid books that are great.  We read to him, he's 5 and starting to read on his own. Love them.  If I remember correctly we didn't start hitting up the library with kid #1 until second grade when he mowed through all of the Magic Treehouse that we'd bought or received (30 of them) and then started getting them from the library.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: infogoon on October 03, 2017, 06:16:28 AM
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on October 03, 2017, 10:50:53 AM
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive.  What's built into the cost is that's how they pay their "coaches".

So, step #1 for a coach making money: Get someone to buy a "challenge pack" - a workout with the shakes on home delivery.
The "coach" gets a 25% commission for that.  So if someone gets the shake and likes it, they get $32.50.
But wait, there's more!  If the coach convinces the customer to become a coach - then the coach pays a monthly fee to be a coach but gets the 25% discount.
Thus, the "new coach" gets the shakes for $97.50 (25% discount) AND their coach gets $32.50.  That brings the actual cost of the shakes down to $65.

Of course there's this whole other "bonus" schedule that I never bothered to figure out, so the actual costs of the shakes has to be much less than that in order to make a profit and pay people for having a bigger "downline".

The only reason I know some of this is because I bought a Beachbody program after kid #2 was born, and it came with the shakes.  I actually really liked the program - still do it.  The shakes actually tasted pretty good (but only the chocolate), and they were helpful for losing the baby weight.  (Nothing magic about them, just that they made meal planning easier.)  I was a coach for awhile to get the discount.

All in all, I like their workouts - they actually have a streaming service right now for approx $99 a year.  I don't really know how they are going to maintain momentum for their "coaches".  You can literally have access to all the workouts on line for $99 a year.  No need to buy DVDs, shakes, supplements, or whatever.  In the last few years I've known many coaches who have faded away and dropped out - and some were pretty successful at it.  But the market got saturated, and streaming took over DVDs (at least you could make a commission on a DVD, not sure if there is any on the streaming service).  It's a side gig for most, and the only people I know who still work at it are actual health professionals - certified personal trainers or nutritionists or people who own gyms or karate studios (where they can run free challenge groups). 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on October 03, 2017, 11:07:31 AM
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.

I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.

I got invited to one of those stupid online "parties" for Usborne. I didn't even bother explaining that books are a waste of money. My 2 year olds just rip them apart (yes, even the board books). Books clutter our home and we tend to read, then donate. If I need to get children books I get them from the library when they are older. It cost ZERO dollars to rent from the library.  Usborne requires you to get monthly shipments and you pay around $50 a month for a "book club membership" that's about $600 because you're in a contract for at least a year. I couldn't be more stupid than to budget $600 this year just for purchasing books.
It seems that people don't look at their annual property tax bills. Ours have a line item for libraries. So we're already paying for the library, so why not use it? There's tons of online resources to use too, like eBooks, magazines, etc.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on October 03, 2017, 11:33:01 AM
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on October 03, 2017, 11:34:32 AM
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive. 

But it is, if you're not willing to "be a coach" yourself.  Which I'm not.  I consider $130 for 30 shakes to be very expensive.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ringer707 on October 03, 2017, 11:44:01 AM
Evidently, there is an MLM that sells toothpaste?

One of the most strident MLMers I know is a nun.

The MLM toothpaste is insane. $28 a tube. Also, I don't know about the people you know selling it, but all the ones I've known who sell it will never tell you what brand it is in the ads... It's probably the only ad campaign I've ever seen where they PURPOSEFULLY do not reveal the brand name to anyone and block it out in all pictures of the product on social media. And every time anyone comments to find out more about the toothpaste, the person selling it just says "I'll message you!" My mom finally commented on one just so she could find out what the product actually was. I don't recall the name, but it was also available on Amazon and had really crappy ratings.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ixtap on October 03, 2017, 11:53:52 AM
Evidently, there is an MLM that sells toothpaste?

One of the most strident MLMers I know is a nun.

The MLM toothpaste is insane. $28 a tube. Also, I don't know about the people you know selling it, but all the ones I've known who sell it will never tell you what brand it is in the ads... It's probably the only ad campaign I've ever seen where they PURPOSEFULLY do not reveal the brand name to anyone and block it out in all pictures of the product on social media. And every time anyone comments to find out more about the toothpaste, the person selling it just says "I'll message you!" My mom finally commented on one just so she could find out what the product actually was. I don't recall the name, but it was also available on Amazon and had really crappy ratings.

I did notice that pictures show it packaged in unlabelled green envelopes...

Her previous obsession was with some health food mango thing, but after a year or two, even she seems to have admitted that she is the same size as ever. The funny thing is, back in the day, I admired how she seemed more comfortable about her size than me, even though I wasn't obese then. It made me so sad to see her hawking this shit.

Makes a poor commentary on the Catholic Church, as far as I am concerned.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Carless on October 03, 2017, 12:16:18 PM
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on October 03, 2017, 12:39:27 PM
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.

Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory.  That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out.  It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Samuel on October 03, 2017, 02:10:34 PM
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.

Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory.  That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out.  It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.

Yep, I worked in public libraries for a decade and very few people knew about and utilized the "inter-library loan" process. Your system may well have reciprocal borrowing agreements with others, sometimes including academic libraries. It can involve some extra effort and patience but worth exploring.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreaming on October 03, 2017, 03:56:14 PM
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.

Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory.  That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out.  It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.

Yep, I worked in public libraries for a decade and very few people knew about and utilized the "inter-library loan" process. Your system may well have reciprocal borrowing agreements with others, sometimes including academic libraries. It can involve some extra effort and patience but worth exploring.

Yes to this!  I live in a metro area and I can take my library card (received from the county I live in) to any one of 7 metro counties and check out a book.  I take full advantage of this.  I work in a different and much larger county than I live and the library is about 1 mile away from my job.  Much closer than the "town" library from my house.  I go online and reserve books in the "work" county and if the book is not shelved in the library by my work, they deliver it from a different library in the county.  It's awesome! 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 03, 2017, 05:12:59 PM
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free. I can often find books on amazon for around the same price, so I just buy it on amazon instead.

So basically, if my library doesn't have it, I have to buy it.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on October 03, 2017, 05:48:12 PM
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive. 

But it is, if you're not willing to "be a coach" yourself.  Which I'm not.  I consider $130 for 30 shakes to be very expensive.

Sorry, that's not what I meant.  Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)

But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low.  They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month.  The ingredients themselves?  I doubt they are very expensive.

I even made that point long long ago and far away.   Cannot even remember when or where.  They "teach" coaches to frame it in a way "it's for your health", and "How much do you spend on Starbucks?"

I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on October 03, 2017, 06:49:01 PM
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive. 

But it is, if you're not willing to "be a coach" yourself.  Which I'm not.  I consider $130 for 30 shakes to be very expensive.

Sorry, that's not what I meant.  Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)

But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low.  They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month.  The ingredients themselves?  I doubt they are very expensive.

I even made that point long long ago and far away.   Cannot even remember when or where.  They "teach" coaches to frame it in a way "it's for your health", and "How much do you spend on Starbucks?"

I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.

Oh, yeah.  I agree it's likely made dirt cheap and all the money goes to "the line" and for the top person's profit.  I'll pay $40 at Costco...  It's just so insanely overpriced for what it is.  (sorry for the mis-interpretation, we're on the same page!)

I got the spiel that "but all that nutrition, I could never get that much on my own.  It would take x number of vegetables, and x number of this, and that...!"  Well, I'm sure I can grind up a multi-vitamin and add it to my own smoothie for a few extra cents.   

My answer with Starbucks is $0.  My "eating out" budget is less than $30/month (and I don't even touch it some months so that I can do a really nice meal out once in a while and know it's budgeted).  My food budget is $250/month (sometimes I'm under, sometimes I go under).  So, no, still not worth using 1/2 my budget on 1/6 of my "meals".  I could increase my meal budget if I wanted, but that would mean cutting into my quilting budget, or my "save to build the house" budget, and that's not going to happen.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 03, 2017, 09:47:49 PM
But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low.  They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month.  The ingredients themselves?  I doubt they are very expensive.

I'd bet the powdered ingredients and the packaging for the shake (plastic can that it comes in) altogether, doesn't cost more than $10.

There's no way it's worth $130. That's crazy.   
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Apples on October 04, 2017, 08:42:20 AM
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.

Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory.  That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out.  It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.

+1 and I live in a rural area with a county library system that has borrowed from as far away as several hours from here for an interlibrary loan for me.  It's free, and I usually get the book in 1-2 weeks as long as it's a few years old (and therefore not already on hold by lots of people at the library we might get it from).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on October 05, 2017, 03:25:03 PM
I'll continue the library hijack of this thread:

Interlibrary loans are great. My local library, Sacramento Public Library, has about 30 locations. All circulating books and most other circulating media (we've had some videos that don't circulate from other branches for some reason) can be requested online for pickup at any branch. If the book is on the shelf, it usualy takes a few days.

The library is also a member of LINK+ (http://csul.iii.com/) which provides access to the circulating collection of many college and public library systems. Even LINK+ requests can be made online and usually take about a week to arrive. Late/lost item fees can be higher in the LINK+ system and renewals are more limited and take longer to process.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: firelight on October 05, 2017, 06:18:56 PM
Adding to the library foam: I love my library since I can borrow books online as well and don't even have to visit the library to get the books. And that means I can travel anywhere and still get books from library. And be able to carry them all on my Kindle or phone (Kindle app). Mind= blown!!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: PinsAndArrows on October 07, 2017, 10:10:47 AM
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.

I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frugledoc on October 07, 2017, 10:41:59 AM
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.

I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.

Are Usborne books the ones like that's not my tiger etc?

We have a few but bought them from amazon I think. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Indexer on October 07, 2017, 08:58:51 PM
Sorry, that's not what I meant.  Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)

But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low.  They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month.  The ingredients themselves?  I doubt they are very expensive.

I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.

I don't know what is in these shakes, but I wanted to put something in perspective. $130/30 comes out to $4.33 per shake.

For $4.33 you could make a really nice smoothie at home with fresh fruits and veggies. The smoothies I make in the blender are 500-600 calories(these are big smoothies), and they contain 50-100%+ of your daily fiber, protein, potassium, calcium, other minerals, vitamins, anti-oxidants, etc.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: availablelight on October 08, 2017, 04:49:44 AM
Adding to the library foam: I love my library since I can borrow books online as well and don't even have to visit the library to get the books. And that means I can travel anywhere and still get books from library. And be able to carry them all on my Kindle or phone (Kindle app). Mind= blown!!

I should probably start getting books from the library more often (i.e., at all).  In the past I've filled up multiple bookcases everywhere I've lived, though the last place was pretty small, so I didn't accumulate books the same way because I knew I'd have nowhere to put them.  I've moved to the Kindle for Gutenberg and other public domain books I can get online for free, but for contemporary entertainment reading and other things I'm not likely to reread, using the library seems better.  I don't know how good the local libraries will be at getting books through interlibrary loan, but I might as well find out, and see if I can save money and space.

On topic, I've had limited interaction with MLMs -- the only time they've touched my life is through some guy who wanted to talk about something he made out to be an opportunity related to my field, but it turned out he was trying to recruit me into Amway.  I switched off at this point, let him go through the rest of his spiel, and emailed him back later to say I wasn't interested.  I didn't otherwise know the guy, so that was the end of it.  Seems like others here have big parts of their social network involved, though -- not surprising since you'd expect that to be how these things generally expand.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on October 08, 2017, 07:13:05 AM
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.

I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.

Are Usborne books the ones like that's not my tiger etc?

We have a few but bought them from amazon I think.

Yep. Those are Usborne. They are great books, but SO expensive.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frugledoc on October 08, 2017, 07:37:32 AM
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.

I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.

Are Usborne books the ones like that's not my tiger etc?

We have a few but bought them from amazon I think.

Yep. Those are Usborne. They are great books, but SO expensive.

Just checked with my wife and she reassured me she got them all on a deal at Ł2 each.. phew!

Costco are great for kids stories, the often do 10 packs for 10 pounds, with books that often are retailing for 4 - 5 pounds each ( rip off)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Dicey on October 08, 2017, 10:06:32 AM
For $4.33 you could make a really nice smoothie at home with fresh fruits and veggies. The smoothies I make in the blender are 500-600 calories(these are big smoothies), and they contain 50-100%+ of your daily fiber, protein, potassium, calcium, other minerals, vitamins, anti-oxidants, etc.
Yeah, but that's a lot of effort. The pre-fab way is fast and EASY! /sarcasm. Just in case it's not completely obvious.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Dictionary Time on October 08, 2017, 02:49:12 PM
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free.

You poor thing!  I would have to move, revolt, or run for library board. That would be a game-changer.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 08, 2017, 03:42:37 PM
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free.

You poor thing!  I would have to move, revolt, or run for library board. That would be a game-changer.

Yea, it's a bummer but in some ways, I agree with their decision to start charging for that.  There were a lot of people abusing the library services in various ways, for a long time.  They also started charging $50 for a library card for non-residents.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Apples on October 09, 2017, 01:56:43 PM
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free.

You poor thing!  I would have to move, revolt, or run for library board. That would be a game-changer.

Yea, it's a bummer but in some ways, I agree with their decision to start charging for that.  There were a lot of people abusing the library services in various ways, for a long time.  They also started charging $50 for a library card for non-residents.

Keeping the foam going...

I try to only ask for 3-4 interlibrary loans a year (I probably check out about 20 books a year) to prevent me going over any sort of threshold of too much hassle.  I don't know where the line is, but I am wary of crossing it in order to avoid this exact situation.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Abo345 on October 09, 2017, 10:33:41 PM
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)

Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea? When people are being asked to buy thousands of dollars in clothing to "start up", why arent alarm bells not going off in their heads? Like "How likely is it that I can continuously sell hundreds of over priced leggings out of my home while also competing with malls and online shopping, both of which are cheaper and more accessible?"

On a side note, how do I convince people to buy $10k worth of made in China crap from me to "start their own business" lol
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 09, 2017, 11:13:32 PM
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free.

You poor thing!  I would have to move, revolt, or run for library board. That would be a game-changer.

Yea, it's a bummer but in some ways, I agree with their decision to start charging for that.  There were a lot of people abusing the library services in various ways, for a long time.  They also started charging $50 for a library card for non-residents.

Keeping the foam going...

I try to only ask for 3-4 interlibrary loans a year (I probably check out about 20 books a year) to prevent me going over any sort of threshold of too much hassle.  I don't know where the line is, but I am wary of crossing it in order to avoid this exact situation.

My spouse was probably one of their biggest offenders for a while, with inter-library loans. He'd get dozens of them at a time, then often, forget to go pick up the books once they came in. IMO, made a lot of unnecessary work for librarians.

Our local library also, used to not place limits on how many DVDs that a patron could check out. I was behind someone in line one day checking out over 100 DVDs. All at one time. So now, they do place limits on how many items can be checked out at one time, by one person. But it was crazy for them not to have that rule before. If I worked at a library, I'd get frustrated seeing people take advantage.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 09, 2017, 11:15:37 PM
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)

Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea?

They aren't smart enough to realize that they are the customer. Not a business owner or an entrepreneur. But a customer, who just bought $10,000 worth of stuff from a business. 

Does anyone here ever talked to your children about MLMs? I plan to talk to my kids once they get to be teenagers so they'll understand .  As part of their financial literacy education.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: frooglepoodle on October 10, 2017, 05:49:30 AM
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)

Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea?

They aren't smart enough to realize that they are the customer. Not a business owner or an entrepreneur. But a customer, who just bought $10,000 worth of stuff from a business. 

Does anyone here ever talked to your children about MLMs? I plan to talk to my kids once they get to be teenagers so they'll understand .  As part of their financial literacy education.

I think that's a fantastic idea, Chelseygirl. My son is way too young (2), but definitely worth teaching older kids about it! I used to enjoy tagging along to Pampered Chef and candle parties with my mom as a preteen, but definitely didn't understand the structure. Thankfully it wasn't something I encountered much of, until I married an active duty servicemember. Then I couldn't escape it.

Re, the up-front cost: my understanding is that they spin it as "all businesses require an initial investment". Which they do, but (as is clear to all of us here) this is isn't starting one's own business.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 10, 2017, 08:56:42 AM
When I was out of college, and living on my own, my dad sort of tried to warn me about "salespeople trying to sell things" I'm pretty sure he was referring to MLMs.

I plan to talk to my kids earlier about this, once they are teenagers; maybe even show them some documentaries on MLMs and how they are scams. The earlier they learn about it, the better.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on October 10, 2017, 09:55:38 AM
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)

Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea? When people are being asked to buy thousands of dollars in clothing to "start up", why arent alarm bells not going off in their heads? Like "How likely is it that I can continuously sell hundreds of over priced leggings out of my home while also competing with malls and online shopping, both of which are cheaper and more accessible?"

On a side note, how do I convince people to buy $10k worth of made in China crap from me to "start their own business" lol

And the person convincing you it's so much fun and so profitable is already well established in that neighborhood. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Nederstash on October 10, 2017, 02:25:53 PM
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)

Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea?

They aren't smart enough to realize that they are the customerproduct. Not a business owner or an entrepreneur. But a customerproduct, who just bought $10,000 worth of stuff from a business. 

Does anyone here ever talked to your children about MLMs? I plan to talk to my kids once they get to be teenagers so they'll understand .  As part of their financial literacy education.

FTFY

It's not the leggings that get sold... it's the people
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LeRainDrop on October 10, 2017, 10:34:24 PM
Not sure if it has been posted but I just saw this on TV. I automatically thought of this thread and it made me smile.

This is Boss Life
https://youtu.be/KWbWJ8xweUg

Oh, yes, thanks for adding that one here!  I saw a couple variations of this Avon commercial when I was visiting someone in LA in June.  I didn't even know Avon still made TV commercials.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Villanelle on October 11, 2017, 02:45:49 AM
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)

Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea? When people are being asked to buy thousands of dollars in clothing to "start up", why arent alarm bells not going off in their heads? Like "How likely is it that I can continuously sell hundreds of over priced leggings out of my home while also competing with malls and online shopping, both of which are cheaper and more accessible?"

On a side note, how do I convince people to buy $10k worth of made in China crap from me to "start their own business" lol

Most of them do online sales, via Facebook.  Not that I'm defending the business model, but I think very few just sell out of there home, and in fact parties seem to be the smallest portion of the business.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 11, 2017, 02:17:39 PM
LulaRoe Leggings are a saturated market. So it doesn't matter if they sell online too, or a combination of online and parties. It's saturated. They are going to lose money. I suspect a lot of them want to jump on what they see as a popular trend, but it's too popular. That means it is saturated.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: firelight on October 11, 2017, 07:53:10 PM
It's already happening. I'm part of a Facebook city chat group and I've had three different people post this week that they are going out of business and are selling their stock ($15 for dresses and $10 for leggings). I'm guessing that's the price they paid any they want to recoup the cost. But the leggings they have look so hideous that no one is buying them. Pretty sad when you think about it.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: marcela on October 12, 2017, 09:35:00 AM
I made the mistake of commenting on Neutrogena's Facebook page about an issue I had with one of their products and have been getting tons of Facebook messages for Rodan and Fields consultants ever since. I finally went back to the original post and edited it to say that this was not an invitation for MLMers to message me. ARGH
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on October 12, 2017, 12:34:46 PM
I'm at a women's leadership conference. The speakers are all amazing executives and entrepreneurs, over 70% of the "exhibitors" are MLMs.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 12, 2017, 01:27:59 PM
I'm at a women's leadership conference. The speakers are all amazing executives and entrepreneurs, over 70% of the "exhibitors" are MLMs.

:(

I went  to  a h.s. reunion last night.  Guess what kinds of business cards I came home with?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on October 12, 2017, 02:33:25 PM
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)

Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea?

They aren't smart enough to realize that they are the customer. Not a business owner or an entrepreneur. But a customer, who just bought $10,000 worth of stuff from a business. 

Does anyone here ever talked to your children about MLMs? I plan to talk to my kids once they get to be teenagers so they'll understand .  As part of their financial literacy education.

Clearly there is good money to be made selling Lularoe memberships.  At that price for entry selling the actual product seems ancillary.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: 11ducks on October 14, 2017, 05:47:51 AM
Sorry, that's not what I meant.  Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)

But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low.  They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month.  The ingredients themselves?  I doubt they are very expensive.

I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.

I don't know what is in these shakes, but I wanted to put something in perspective. $130/30 comes out to $4.33 per shake.

For $4.33 you could make a really nice smoothie at home with fresh fruits and veggies. The smoothies I make in the blender are 500-600 calories(these are big smoothies), and they contain 50-100%+ of your daily fiber, protein, potassium, calcium, other minerals, vitamins, anti-oxidants, etc.

Hey Indexer- care to share a recipe or two? I currently do breakfast smoothies, but something with enough good cals to take me through lunch would be awesome!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on October 16, 2017, 03:03:31 PM
It's already happening. I'm part of a Facebook city chat group and I've had three different people post this week that they are going out of business and are selling their stock ($15 for dresses and $10 for leggings). I'm guessing that's the price they paid any they want to recoup the cost. But the leggings they have look so hideous that no one is buying them. Pretty sad when you think about it.

I have to admit, I've been watching this particular train-wreck for a while, and LLR seems just about ready to implode.  Tons of Facebook pages out there devoted to the glaringly bad defects and cheap quality of this clothing, not to mention all the GOOB pages popping up (GOOB= going out of business), adding a ton more competition to the consultants who are still trying to hawk their wears for whatever ridiculous MSRP that LLR tells them to sell for.

The policy change indicated in the article occurred b/c LLR got slammed with over $50 million in returns.  Not to mention many consultants who return items that LLR deems to be unfit for sale, and they won't return or credit the consultant for a penny, which increases the risk of returning and getting nothing for your trouble.  So, the best way to liquidate is to set up a GOOB sale, and the downward spiral continues!

I just did a quick check on eBay, and there's over 191,000 listings active right now.  Even the GOOB sellers are being undercut.  It's fascinating to watch.  My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on October 17, 2017, 11:24:41 PM
My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.
I'm always surprised at how resilient MLMs can be: when a market gets saturated, they let it cool down for a few years by moving their efforts to another country/continent. Another strategy is to launch new products regularly and make the older products "obsolete" one way or another to make eBay sales impossible (so when politicians ban a given chemical contained in some MLM product, they actually help the MLM).

A popular Aloe goop mlm have been going on for 40 years, using some of the strategies above.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MrAlanBreck on October 18, 2017, 07:43:53 AM
Not an MLM, but along the same lines.

An old High School friend set up his own insurance agency.  Okay so far, so good.  I see a couple of posts of Facebook saying he's open and willing to see clients.  Again, no problem.

A couple weeks later I get a Facebook message saying "Hi <Name>", followed by some boilerplate stuff, ending with a request to have a meeting to discuss insurance options.

This was pretty obnoxious, as we had not talked in a couple of years, but I let it go.

Then I got wind from my family that my sister, who had a debilitating stroke five years ago and lives with our folks, got the same message.

I know he just used a script to message all of the people on his friends list, but this really pissed me off.  My dad just said that people do awful things when starting their own venture, and he has colleagues who stay up at night in horror of things they did decades ago when first starting out.  Reading some of the things on this thread, that rings true.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on October 18, 2017, 09:28:47 AM
My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.
I'm always surprised at how resilient MLMs can be: when a market gets saturated, they let it cool down for a few years by moving their efforts to another country/continent. Another strategy is to launch new products regularly and make the older products "obsolete" one way or another to make eBay sales impossible (so when politicians ban a given chemical contained in some MLM product, they actually help the MLM).

A popular Aloe goop mlm have been going on for 40 years, using some of the strategies above.

That's true, and from what I understand, LLR has already created a few sister brands, one being Honey & Lace, I think.  Which in the wake of the LLR return debacle, re-branded itself to P!phany.  My guess is this is an effort to distance itself from what's coming, and it sounds like some of the LLR consultants are moving over to the new brands (there are a few, I just don't care to know them all).  So yes, LLR will likely continue in some fashion, I have no doubt that the people in charge of this will jump ship to a new version once the sh*t hits the fan, and sadly, a large portion of their consultants will just follow along.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on October 18, 2017, 10:33:17 AM
P!phany?

Are you effing kidding me?

(Edit: Google tells me they changed it because it was testing as the name of a lingerie company. That makes sense. I just read it as Mormon because they have a thing with bees, and "Grace and Lace" is the name of a heavily Christian clothing company.  But that still doesn't explain why they changed it to such a ridiculous name.)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on October 18, 2017, 11:54:02 AM
It's already happening. I'm part of a Facebook city chat group and I've had three different people post this week that they are going out of business and are selling their stock ($15 for dresses and $10 for leggings). I'm guessing that's the price they paid any they want to recoup the cost. But the leggings they have look so hideous that no one is buying them. Pretty sad when you think about it.

I have to admit, I've been watching this particular train-wreck for a while, and LLR seems just about ready to implode.  Tons of Facebook pages out there devoted to the glaringly bad defects and cheap quality of this clothing, not to mention all the GOOB pages popping up (GOOB= going out of business), adding a ton more competition to the consultants who are still trying to hawk their wears for whatever ridiculous MSRP that LLR tells them to sell for.

The policy change indicated in the article occurred b/c LLR got slammed with over $50 million in returns.  Not to mention many consultants who return items that LLR deems to be unfit for sale, and they won't return or credit the consultant for a penny, which increases the risk of returning and getting nothing for your trouble.  So, the best way to liquidate is to set up a GOOB sale, and the downward spiral continues!

I just did a quick check on eBay, and there's over 191,000 listings active right now.  Even the GOOB sellers are being undercut.  It's fascinating to watch.  My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.
I feel lucky to have missed this train.  I'm maybe a bit too old for the demographic.  I got my first LLR invite just this year, when it was already starting to implode.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Roe on October 18, 2017, 03:02:55 PM
P!phany?

Are you effing kidding me?

(Edit: Google tells me they changed it because it was testing as the name of a lingerie company. That makes sense. I just read it as Mormon because they have a thing with bees, and "Grace and Lace" is the name of a heavily Christian clothing company.  But that still doesn't explain why they changed it to such a ridiculous name.)

Pippa is swedish for an activity for two, or more, adults that love each other very, very much.

Maybe they decided to go international?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: onehair on October 19, 2017, 07:26:30 AM
Had a coworker here selling It Works!  It Works is some kind of green powdered supplement.  She asked if I was interested but I politely refused it.  Disclaimer: I do take a powdered green supplement but I prefer to purchase mine at the store or online depending on who has the better special at the moment.  The girl next to me did buy some.  Last week I overheard the poor thing on the phone demanding they refund her for charges they'd loaded onto her credit card.  I think she made one purchase and they kept billing her I haven't had the guts to ask.
Anyone here heard of It Works?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Misstachian on October 19, 2017, 08:18:13 AM
Had a coworker here selling It Works!  It Works is some kind of green powdered supplement.  She asked if I was interested but I politely refused it.  Disclaimer: I do take a powdered green supplement but I prefer to purchase mine at the store or online depending on who has the better special at the moment.  The girl next to me did buy some.  Last week I overheard the poor thing on the phone demanding they refund her for charges they'd loaded onto her credit card.  I think she made one purchase and they kept billing her I haven't had the guts to ask.
Anyone here heard of It Works?

Yep, we had a cousin into that. The big sell was "wraps" that you wrap around pieces of your body to "melt fat off."

If that worked it would definitely be super healthy, right?? /sarcasm

(She stopped selling them eventually after buying a lot of inventory that she couldn't get rid of. She really wanted to help support her family and had good intentions...but she moved on to selling "toxin-free" makeup. Her husband emailed all family & friends asking them to please buy her makeup as she wanted to be a SAHM. I wrote back saying that I understood the desire, but our financial planning for eventual kids involved not paying for unnecessary expenses, so we wouldn't be ordering, and hoped they understood. Apparently I was the only one to respond at all...so that makeup went away too. Now she's off the MLM train but the rest of the family is selling Younique, cluttering every social feed with not only  the makeup posts but also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??" I find it an annoying erosion of our social contract, but they claim to be making lots of money so I don't see it going away anytime soon.)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ixtap on October 19, 2017, 08:18:46 AM
Had a coworker here selling It Works!  It Works is some kind of green powdered supplement.  She asked if I was interested but I politely refused it.  Disclaimer: I do take a powdered green supplement but I prefer to purchase mine at the store or online depending on who has the better special at the moment.  The girl next to me did buy some.  Last week I overheard the poor thing on the phone demanding they refund her for charges they'd loaded onto her credit card.  I think she made one purchase and they kept billing her I haven't had the guts to ask.
Anyone here heard of It Works?

They started of as thinning wraps and branched out into hokey supplements. One seller I know has recently moved onto a vinyl transfer business. She is using everything she learned from MLM, so I only see her kids on Facebook when they are modelling something she made.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on October 19, 2017, 08:48:24 AM
Regarding the herbal and alternative medicines, remedies, etc. I'll just leave this here:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/10/herbal-remedies-embraced-by-naturopaths-alt-med-widely-linked-to-liver-cancers/

Here's the source article: http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/9/412/eaan6446/tab-pdf
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: rockstache on October 19, 2017, 08:50:15 AM
also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"

OH! I knew there was a reason for these types of posts but I didn't understand what they were for. They drive me nuts. I never answer because I figured if I did, they would just try to hit me up to buy something in the future, but they still annoy me.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Cpa Cat on October 19, 2017, 08:51:21 AM
but also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"

I have a Facebook friend who does this. Had no idea that it was for this purpose.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: eddiejoe on October 19, 2017, 11:18:54 AM
It's already happening. I'm part of a Facebook city chat group and I've had three different people post this week that they are going out of business and are selling their stock ($15 for dresses and $10 for leggings). I'm guessing that's the price they paid any they want to recoup the cost. But the leggings they have look so hideous that no one is buying them. Pretty sad when you think about it.

I have to admit, I've been watching this particular train-wreck for a while, and LLR seems just about ready to implode.  Tons of Facebook pages out there devoted to the glaringly bad defects and cheap quality of this clothing, not to mention all the GOOB pages popping up (GOOB= going out of business), adding a ton more competition to the consultants who are still trying to hawk their wears for whatever ridiculous MSRP that LLR tells them to sell for.

The policy change indicated in the article occurred b/c LLR got slammed with over $50 million in returns.  Not to mention many consultants who return items that LLR deems to be unfit for sale, and they won't return or credit the consultant for a penny, which increases the risk of returning and getting nothing for your trouble.  So, the best way to liquidate is to set up a GOOB sale, and the downward spiral continues!

I just did a quick check on eBay, and there's over 191,000 listings active right now.  Even the GOOB sellers are being undercut.  It's fascinating to watch.  My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.

I don't find Yahoo.com to be a great source of news, but there is no doubt it is mainstream and reaches a massive audience:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/new-lularoe-lawsuit-calls-leggings-giant-pyramid-scheme-end-184529361.html
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Misstachian on October 19, 2017, 01:04:01 PM
also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"

OH! I knew there was a reason for these types of posts but I didn't understand what they were for. They drive me nuts. I never answer because I figured if I did, they would just try to hit me up to buy something in the future, but they still annoy me.

I'm told it's because Facebook shows your posts to more people if you tend to get lots of comments, so they post "a or b" things to increase engagement. Then the selling posts have more eyeballs. I should not care but do find it annoying!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on October 19, 2017, 03:07:02 PM
also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"

OH! I knew there was a reason for these types of posts but I didn't understand what they were for. They drive me nuts. I never answer because I figured if I did, they would just try to hit me up to buy something in the future, but they still annoy me.

I'm told it's because Facebook shows your posts to more people if you tend to get lots of comments, so they post "a or b" things to increase engagement. Then the selling posts have more eyeballs. I should not care but do find it annoying!
This is why you can have 200 friends on Facebook, but only ever see updates from 10 of them. Facebook also has a honeymoon period where you'll see everything a new friend has to say, but if you don't interact with them they'll drop to the bottom of the pile after a while.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Rowellen on October 19, 2017, 04:11:15 PM
Had a coworker here selling It Works!  It Works is some kind of green powdered supplement.  She asked if I was interested but I politely refused it.  Disclaimer: I do take a powdered green supplement but I prefer to purchase mine at the store or online depending on who has the better special at the moment.  The girl next to me did buy some.  Last week I overheard the poor thing on the phone demanding they refund her for charges they'd loaded onto her credit card.  I think she made one purchase and they kept billing her I haven't had the guts to ask.
Anyone here heard of It Works?

Yes. My cousin was using the wraps. I don't think she was selling them. I don't think they worked. At least not any better than the exercise she was also doing.

also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"

OH! I knew there was a reason for these types of posts but I didn't understand what they were for. They drive me nuts. I never answer because I figured if I did, they would just try to hit me up to buy something in the future, but they still annoy me.

I'm told it's because Facebook shows your posts to more people if you tend to get lots of comments, so they post "a or b" things to increase engagement. Then the selling posts have more eyeballs. I should not care but do find it annoying!
This is why you can have 200 friends on Facebook, but only ever see updates from 10 of them. Facebook also has a honeymoon period where you'll see everything a new friend has to say, but if you don't interact with them they'll drop to the bottom of the pile after a while.

That explains why I constantly see stuff my aunts post and not  new posts from other friends. In amongst all the ads that is. They always like and comment on my posts so I feel obliged to like theirs too.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Tass on October 19, 2017, 04:18:53 PM
I'm told it's because Facebook shows your posts to more people if you tend to get lots of comments, so they post "a or b" things to increase engagement. Then the selling posts have more eyeballs. I should not care but do find it annoying!
This is why you can have 200 friends on Facebook, but only ever see updates from 10 of them. Facebook also has a honeymoon period where you'll see everything a new friend has to say, but if you don't interact with them they'll drop to the bottom of the pile after a while.

This is one reason why I insist on using facebook in chronological order. I'll choose who I do and don't want to see, thanks. (There's a hidden setting for it which periodically defaults back to the algorithm, or you can get extensions like FBP that do it automatically.)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Pizzabrewer on October 19, 2017, 04:34:15 PM
As a male of more than middle-aged years I have been largely insulated from the MLM pitches.  Lately a facebook friend has been trying very hard to interest me in Arbonne.  No idea what it is, I really have no interest.

I'm thinking about unfriending her.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on October 20, 2017, 12:03:40 PM
As a male of more than middle-aged years I have been largely insulated from the MLM pitches.  Lately a facebook friend has been trying very hard to interest me in Arbonne.  No idea what it is, I really have no interest.

I'm thinking about unfriending her.
Here I was thinking Argonne National Lab has an MLM venture.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: gatortator on October 20, 2017, 12:30:04 PM
A long, depressing read:

https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/

Thank you for this link.  a very useful read. 

posting to follow.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 20, 2017, 01:05:24 PM
As a male of more than middle-aged years I have been largely insulated from the MLM pitches.  Lately a facebook friend has been trying very hard to interest me in Arbonne.  No idea what it is, I really have no interest.

I'm thinking about unfriending her.

Arbonne is expensive skin care products, as far as I know. Their "anti aging set" of skin products retails for around $400. Perhaps they think older people are a good market for these products. I really don't know!

They don't care how old or young someone is, they'll pitch to them anyway or try to recruit them. Lots of people even recruit their own parents and grandparents.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on October 20, 2017, 01:29:05 PM
I didn't know that Arbonne was a MLM. A few years back I asked a friend what whey protein he used and he said Arbonne. I looked it up and saw that it was over $60 for 2 pounds and passed. For that price they better eliminate any possibility of getting DOMS
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on October 25, 2017, 06:50:48 PM
HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...
Sad thing is, if they did need a business license, MLM hucksters would just use that help rope in recruits and make them feel more "official". "And here are the forms you need for your business license...you'll need one since you're starting your own business.."
Followed by the victim who just got taken for a couple of grand recruit posting on facebook " I just got my business license! I'm an entrepreneur  running my own business now!" #CEObusinessowner :)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: draco44 on October 25, 2017, 08:20:32 PM
I know some previous commenters have brought up the Lularoe returns policy change fiasco, but in case you missed it, that controversy has now led to a class action lawsuit: http://www.businessinsider.com/lularoe-called-pyramid-scheme-by-sellers-2017-10  The suit was filed on October 13, but I didn't see a mention of it in this thread yet.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: carolinap on October 26, 2017, 05:32:24 AM
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, and instead buying in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.

I'm still confused, never heard of it before.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: carolinap on October 26, 2017, 05:44:46 AM
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.

I'm still confused, never heard of it before.

They claim they are better than other companies because you don't have to "sell" anything, just consume what you already consume... but you have recruitment quotas to receive your profits.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: jinga nation on October 26, 2017, 06:08:22 AM
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.

I'm still confused, never heard of it before.

They claim they are better than other companies because you don't have to "sell" anything, just consume what you already consume... but you have recruitment quotas to receive your profits.
I see that the Amway/Quixtar model is truly well and alive.
i was asked in 1999 to join and buy bulk TP. How much does a single college kid need when you do all your #2 on campus?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on October 26, 2017, 09:42:57 AM
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.

I'm still confused, never heard of it before.

They claim they are better than other companies because you don't have to "sell" anything, just consume what you already consume... but you have recruitment quotas to receive your profits.
I see that the Amway/Quixtar model is truly well and alive.
i was asked in 1999 to join and buy bulk TP. How much does a single college kid need when you do all your #2 on campus?

Yes, I'm currently reading Merchants of Deception, and this is EXACTLY the Amway model.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: SwordGuy on October 27, 2017, 06:40:06 AM
[Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

They pretty much can. It's called "ILL" for Inter-Library Loan.

You tell the ILL librarian what book you want, they put in a request and some time later (a week or months) it shows up and they loan it to you.  Takes time, but they can do it.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on October 27, 2017, 07:32:53 AM
[Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

They pretty much can. It's called "ILL" for Inter-Library Loan.

You tell the ILL librarian what book you want, they put in a request and some time later (a week or months) it shows up and they loan it to you.  Takes time, but they can do it.

My library charges $3 per ILL request (whether they can fulfill it or not).  Another city I lived in charged $11 per ILL fulfilled.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: snowball on October 27, 2017, 09:35:52 AM
It costs libraries something like $10-15 to fill a single ILL request, counting staff time on both ends plus return shipping costs.  (I refer to true ILL requests here, not requests that are filled by other libraries within the same system, which benefit much more from economies of scale.)

It's a great service, and people should absolutely feel free to use it when the local collection doesn't fill their needs.  I wouldn't personally mind paying a $3 fee, given that it's not even close to covering the cost of the service, but I'd be a bit concerned about it for other reasons.  If a public library feels it has to charge for this service, that's a sign it's not funded very well in general, so I might lobby my municipality for better library funding in my community.  How supportive councillors are of the library can *really* vary, and is definitely affected by what they hear from voters.

[ETA: well-run / well-funded libraries do keep the cost of ILL in mind when looking at a request, and if it's for a book that's currently in print, they may just buy a copy, especially if it looks like an item others might be interested in too.  ILL requests from patrons are treated a bit like purchase suggestions, in terms of collection development.]
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on October 27, 2017, 09:44:45 AM
If a public library feels it has to charge for this service, that's a sign it's not funded very well in general, so I might lobby my municipality for better library funding in my community.  How supportive councillors are of the library can *really* vary, and is definitely affected by what they hear from voters.

We have an amazing library (especially for kids books and adult best sellers), with great programming- but there is a limit to how much it can do with a population under 20,000.

The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though.  That's pretty cool.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: snowball on October 27, 2017, 09:52:49 AM
If a public library feels it has to charge for this service, that's a sign it's not funded very well in general, so I might lobby my municipality for better library funding in my community.  How supportive councillors are of the library can *really* vary, and is definitely affected by what they hear from voters.

We have an amazing library (especially for kids books and adult best sellers), with great programming- but there is a limit to how much it can do with a population under 20,000.

The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though.  That's pretty cool.

I should probably have been a little more nuanced there;  I'd take it in context with the rest of what I see from that library, of course.  :)

The cake pan collection does sound cool!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: greengardens on October 28, 2017, 03:58:54 PM
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv. and had I received the video she sent me a month ago over text message? and how she thought I would be a wonderful person to take advantage of these "experiences" and could she send me more links to other videos to give me more information. I've watched a few minutes of the video and for the life of me cannot figure out what the purpose of this company is. Is it an MLM or a new iteration of timeshares? I feel like I can do a lot of this stuff with my credit card points.

Guess I'm blocking her phone number going forward, which sucks because I liked this lady and it's a small town :(

http://meetliv.com/
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: kpd905 on October 28, 2017, 07:33:04 PM
The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though.  That's pretty cool.

I wonder if they ever get close to loaning those all out.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on October 28, 2017, 07:56:58 PM
The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though.  That's pretty cool.

I wonder if they ever get close to loaning those all out.
Not all at once, but I know they curate the collection and get rid of the unpopular ones and pull in more popular designs.

Nearly everyone I know had checked out a pan for a birthday party or shower.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Villanelle on October 29, 2017, 03:38:52 AM
Also keep in mind that you may be eligible to join various library systems, sometimes for a fee, and that can expand your access considerably. 

It may be worth the occasional longer drive to get a book you want and not pay a $x ILL fee, and to get it more quickly.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: economista on October 30, 2017, 09:01:48 AM
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv. and had I received the video she sent me a month ago over text message? and how she thought I would be a wonderful person to take advantage of these "experiences" and could she send me more links to other videos to give me more information. I've watched a few minutes of the video and for the life of me cannot figure out what the purpose of this company is. Is it an MLM or a new iteration of timeshares? I feel like I can do a lot of this stuff with my credit card points.

Guess I'm blocking her phone number going forward, which sucks because I liked this lady and it's a small town :(

http://meetliv.com/

I was curious so I took a look at the website.  This is definitely an MLM that is masquerading as a type of vacation/event savings account.  You sign up and pay an initiation fee along with a monthly membership fee, and part of the monthly fee accumulates so you can spend it in the future on vacation packages or event tickets.  Like Audible but way more expensive and your whole monthly fee doesn't accumulate!  They are saying "pay us $50 per month and you will get $25 per month in credits"...why would anyone do that?!

Then there is the MLM side.  If you become a "promoter" you get a portion of whatever the people under you contribute (which is why when you sign up you don't get to keep your whole monthly fee - a portion goes to the uplines).  It also has incentives that are really MLM heavy: be an entrepreneur, work for yourself, get paid 5x per month, get to a high enough level and get a $750 per month car allowance, etc.  If you don't become a promoter buy you convince 3 others to sign up at the same level as you, you get a month free.  I'm assuming your friend is either a promoter or was trying to get a free month.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 30, 2017, 01:07:50 PM
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv.
http://meetliv.com/

I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.

I wonder about people who get involved in MLMs. 

Neither one of my parents had a college education, but they knew better than to get involved in scams. But I see people with business degrees getting hooked into them and I have to wonder about that. You'd think someone with the advantage of more education would know better.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on October 30, 2017, 01:21:15 PM
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv.
http://meetliv.com/

I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.

I wonder about people who get involved in MLMs. 

Neither one of my parents had a college education, but they knew better than to get involved in scams. But I see people with business degrees getting hooked into them and I have to wonder about that. You'd think someone with the advantage of more education would know better.

That all depends on what you're supposed to learn in a Business Degree program. How to run a business and how not to get snookered by too-good-to-be-true with a dash of emotional manipulation are not the same thing.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: greengardens on October 31, 2017, 08:23:05 AM

I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.


Yep it was. Completely unauthentic. I dot. Know what upsets me more, the fact that she thought I’d be interested in this scam or the fact that she used our prior working relationship to get me to call her back (by leaving a message asking me to call because it was “important”). Can’t wait for her to call me back to give me a pitch to be a promoter /s
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MgoSam on October 31, 2017, 09:21:03 AM

I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.


Yep it was. Completely unauthentic. I dot. Know what upsets me more, the fact that she thought I’d be interested in this scam or the fact that she used our prior working relationship to get me to call her back (by leaving a message asking me to call because it was “important”). Can’t wait for her to call me back to give me a pitch to be a promoter /s

URG! Yeah I've had acquaintances call me and leave a voicemail asking for me to "call them back" without bothering to specify precisely why. It's gotten to the point where if someone I know on Facebook or was friends with at some point years ago calls and leaves a VM without saying why they called I will generally ignore it. Far too often it's them asking for a MLM or some other venture that I have no interest in. My favorite are people that were too busy for me a year or so ago but now that they need rubes to sign up to whatever it is they are doing they are more than eager to call me and pretend to give a damn about my life.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: SavingIsForSuckers on October 31, 2017, 09:57:41 AM
I follow this one woman on Instagram who steals "before and after" pictures of people who lost weight/got ripped from the internet and reposts them on IG, referring to them as "satisfied clients". I think she sells health shakes or something.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 31, 2017, 12:49:56 PM
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LifeHappens on October 31, 2017, 01:00:59 PM
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 31, 2017, 01:13:26 PM
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.

If true, then Dave Ramsey has a lot less credibility for me.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LifeHappens on October 31, 2017, 01:15:39 PM
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.

If true, then Dave Ramsey has a lot less credibility for me.
I can't say for sure if it's true, and I haven't listened to Dave's show in a long time. Just putting a few things I know about the culture together. Also, he openly promotes poor investment choices and whole life insurance policies, so not all of his financial advice is exactly stellar.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on October 31, 2017, 01:20:17 PM
The Dave Ramsey course instructors we know, said they have loaded mutual funds. I didn't think that 100% wise, but decided not to comment on it when they told me.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on October 31, 2017, 04:41:07 PM
The Dave Ramsey course instructors we know, said they have loaded mutual funds. I didn't think that 100% wise, but decided not to comment on it when they told me.

That's a subject we've definitely beat to death on this forum. Bottom line: use Ramsey to get out of debt, but turn him off when it's time to invest.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: englishteacheralex on October 31, 2017, 04:51:56 PM
Dave Ramsey is my guilty pleasure.

Re: MLMs and Dave Ramsey, his take is that you should make sure that you know that you're not in the business of selling a product, but that you're in the recruitment business. I've heard him address the question several times on his podcast. I would call his tone one of guarded skepticism. He says that there is a certain type of person who can do the MLM thing really well and make good money from it. But he acknowledges that it's rare, and most people fail.

Coming out and calling out MLMs as a huge, decades old, horrible scam that manipulates valuable human relationships in the name of making a buck (a buck that rarely even materializes) is a great way to stir up an ugly, polarized conversation that doesn't get anywhere. I can't say I blame Ramsey for qualifying his remarks on the subject.

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: penguintroopers on October 31, 2017, 06:48:56 PM

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.

Same here. I've never heard him recommend anything but term life insurance.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MrsDinero on October 31, 2017, 07:06:43 PM
UGH!  Lately I have been an MLM magnet!

On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches".  They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I  can be my own boss and such.  I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no.  Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.

today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with.  She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years.  I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is.  I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola.   Sorry I just needed to rant about it. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 01, 2017, 10:14:28 AM
UGH!  Lately I have been an MLM magnet!

On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches".  They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I  can be my own boss and such.  I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no.  Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.

today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with.  She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years.  I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is.  I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola.   Sorry I just needed to rant about it.

I'd honestly block anyone who pulled that stunt on my own Facebook page.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: eddiejoe on November 01, 2017, 11:26:03 AM

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.

Same here. I've never heard him recommend anything but term life insurance.

Third that. I haven't listened in a few years, but I doubt he has changed since my daily listening days from 2013-2015. I remember one conversation in particular where a whole life insurance salesman called trying to justify it and Dave really went off on him.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: englishteacheralex on November 01, 2017, 12:13:15 PM
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.

My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!

Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.

The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.

Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LadyStache in Baja on November 01, 2017, 01:22:00 PM
UGH!  Lately I have been an MLM magnet!

On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches".  They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I  can be my own boss and such.  I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no.  Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.

today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with.  She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years.  I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is.  I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola.   Sorry I just needed to rant about it.

Oh, the tag is soooo sleazy! You know it wasn't a casual thing. It's probably a technique they do on purpose so they can have a "natural convo" about EOs all over people's walls. Because without 2 people talking, it's just one and that really sounds sleazy. Except WE CAN SEE THROUGH YOU!


Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Just Joe on November 02, 2017, 10:54:30 AM
Dave Ramsey is my guilty pleasure.

Re: MLMs and Dave Ramsey, his take is that you should make sure that you know that you're not in the business of selling a product, but that you're in the recruitment business. I've heard him address the question several times on his podcast. I would call his tone one of guarded skepticism. He says that there is a certain type of person who can do the MLM thing really well and make good money from it. But he acknowledges that it's rare, and most people fail.

Coming out and calling out MLMs as a huge, decades old, horrible scam that manipulates valuable human relationships in the name of making a buck (a buck that rarely even materializes) is a great way to stir up an ugly, polarized conversation that doesn't get anywhere. I can't say I blame Ramsey for qualifying his remarks on the subject.

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.

Is there a MLM-like aspect to his Financial University and other services?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Apples on November 02, 2017, 11:48:58 AM
Dave Ramsey is my guilty pleasure.

Re: MLMs and Dave Ramsey, his take is that you should make sure that you know that you're not in the business of selling a product, but that you're in the recruitment business. I've heard him address the question several times on his podcast. I would call his tone one of guarded skepticism. He says that there is a certain type of person who can do the MLM thing really well and make good money from it. But he acknowledges that it's rare, and most people fail.

Coming out and calling out MLMs as a huge, decades old, horrible scam that manipulates valuable human relationships in the name of making a buck (a buck that rarely even materializes) is a great way to stir up an ugly, polarized conversation that doesn't get anywhere. I can't say I blame Ramsey for qualifying his remarks on the subject.

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.

Is there a MLM-like aspect to his Financial University and other services?

No.  It's basically a class that participants pay to take.  It's put on by "facilitators" or "leaders", usually in churches holding the course for anyone interested in their congregation.  The one-time fee of $99 gets you lifetime access to the course, so I don't think the people in charge pay any money to lead further courses year after year.  And Dave jokes that if you "fail" the first time, you're welcome to go back again and again until the message sinks in.  Basically, if you suck at budgeting or had relationship problems you had to work out instead of getting anywhere in the first class, you're welcome to keep going as long as you want.

The Endorsed Local Provider and SmartVester Pro services are just basically his company setting up a database of financial advisers/realtors/insurance people who they 1. "endorse" or are willing to direct people to on their website and 2. the person has agreed in some way to be a part of the greater Dave Ramsey network.  I believe they pay a fee to end up on the list, though I could be wrong and don't feel like Googling right now.  People don't like this part because usually the financial advisers have  high fees, or front loaded fees, etc.  But for Dave it solved the problem of "this person I'm talking to on the radio needs more help than I can give them in less than 5 minutes...and trusts me and wants a personal recommendation of someone to talk to" while happily adding a new income stream.

I listen to two podcasts of his a week. It's sort of a guilty pleasure, but some of his rants really annoy me.  I can only handle Dave and his baby steps in small doses, but hearing about people living below their means is a nice positive motivator and reminder.

Where I think the gossip about him has some teeth is that he never gets into the details about what happened between bankruptcy and making a decent living with his company.  Somehow he managed to pay all that debt off, grow a business "with cash only!", and build a real estate empire, before his kids were teenagers.  That's a 10, maybe 15, year turnaround.  I've heard on these forums that his parents died and he got a big inheritance, but I have no evidence of that.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on November 02, 2017, 01:27:33 PM
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.

My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!

Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.

The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.

Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.

I saw a breakdown video of how the commissions worked for LLR yesterday..

In addition to your own 100 - 150 - 175 - 250 minimum item purchase per month (the lower level of 100 units are the numbers if you have 3 direct downlines buying their minimums), that you should be selling and making profit on, 12% of your gross sales (or 24% of the money you pay for inventory) goes to various upline commissions.      I estimate that consultant make 28% margin on their own sales, assuming discarded inventory and costs for returning inventory that does not sell.   The last 60% would go to purchase of goods and company and consultant overhead expenses.

How much does a consultant make.?

The DR caller that grosses sales over $200k per year (which means selling over 500 units per month personally) would be netting about $4600/month (at 28% margin)

--> But I doubt it, more statistically likely this  $200k/yr gross retail is across the entire 12 person downline, so would be netting only $1150 per month... as some of the sales are only at 5% and 1% upline commissions.


---------------------------------------------------
MATH rough estimates and general assumptions (worst case /conservative)
Wholesale prices are $13-$30 per unit.  Advertised retail is 2x wholesale, and suggested retail prices items are actually sold for are a bit less.  Assume that a person with an active downline still needs to buy 150 units per month x $15 each = $2250 per month plus $25 shipping = $2275 out of pocket, minimum.
They sell 50 units at advertised price, 50 units at markdown ($22), 25 are returned at 80% wholesale minus shipping costs and 25 units are given away because you opened the package, they are ugly and did not sell.  = $2885 per month.

Net is $635/month of personal sales, plus your 5% direct downline $450, plus your second level downlines at 1%:$300
So, a person with 12 people under them of which half pull in their minimums, and directly selling over 100 units per month personally, would earn: $1385/month, conservatively

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 02, 2017, 05:06:24 PM
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.

My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!

Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.

The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.

Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.

I don't believe the man's story about his wife making 200K even if she's not including her business expenses. I think the guy might even be a plant for the failing Lularoe business. That's pretty clever of Lularoe, though. Got to hand it to them.

But yes, it's common people in MLM will state they earn a certain amount, and they do - but they don't include their business expenses or how much they spent on the inventory.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on November 03, 2017, 08:35:15 AM
Yeah, if the caller was a shill for Lularoe Dave ramsey's show would be a great platform. Just filled with SHM's looking for ways to make some extra money.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Apples on November 03, 2017, 09:08:34 AM
Yeah, if the caller was a shill for Lularoe Dave ramsey's show would be a great platform. Just filled with SHM's looking for ways to make some extra money.

I was impressed when they brought on Christy Wright (might be Kristy?) to to the women business book and seminars - I assume they're all aimed at exactly this market.  I haven't checked out her materials, but it was a great next step for broadening the scope as they transition the business beyond Dave.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Beard N Bones on November 03, 2017, 12:01:15 PM
Thanks for the number crunching Goldielocks!  I crunched a few more numbers, using the figures that you came up with, just for fun.
If the caller grosses $200,000 in sales, and only nets $1150/mn, this person is:
1. On an average (40 hour) work week, is selling 25 pairs of leggings per day (3/hr)!
2. In selling the 25 pairs per day (3/hr), they are netting a grand total of $7.19/hr ($1150 net/mn over 160 hours worked that month (40hr x 4 weeks)).
Isn't it fun crunching the numbers?!
Financially speaking, a person is better off asking "Would you like fries with that?" Rather than, "would you like to join my downline selling these lotions, potions and/or weight loss product?"


Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.

My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!

Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.

The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.

Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.

I saw a breakdown video of how the commissions worked for LLR yesterday..

In addition to your own 100 - 150 - 175 - 250 minimum item purchase per month (the lower level of 100 units are the numbers if you have 3 direct downlines buying their minimums), that you should be selling and making profit on, 12% of your gross sales (or 24% of the money you pay for inventory) goes to various upline commissions.      I estimate that consultant make 28% margin on their own sales, assuming discarded inventory and costs for returning inventory that does not sell.   The last 60% would go to purchase of goods and company and consultant overhead expenses.

How much does a consultant make.?

The DR caller that grosses sales over $200k per year (which means selling over 500 units per month personally) would be netting about $4600/month (at 28% margin)

--> But I doubt it, more statistically likely this  $200k/yr gross retail is across the entire 12 person downline, so would be netting only $1150 per month... as some of the sales are only at 5% and 1% upline commissions.


---------------------------------------------------
MATH rough estimates and general assumptions (worst case /conservative)
Wholesale prices are $13-$30 per unit.  Advertised retail is 2x wholesale, and suggested retail prices items are actually sold for are a bit less.  Assume that a person with an active downline still needs to buy 150 units per month x $15 each = $2250 per month plus $25 shipping = $2275 out of pocket, minimum.
They sell 50 units at advertised price, 50 units at markdown ($22), 25 are returned at 80% wholesale minus shipping costs and 25 units are given away because you opened the package, they are ugly and did not sell.  = $2885 per month.

Net is $635/month of personal sales, plus your 5% direct downline $450, plus your second level downlines at 1%:$300
So, a person with 12 people under them of which half pull in their minimums, and directly selling over 100 units per month personally, would earn: $1385/month, conservatively
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 03, 2017, 01:15:15 PM
Yeah, if the caller was a shill for Lularoe Dave ramsey's show would be a great platform. Just filled with SHM's looking for ways to make some extra money.

Yeah. and I'd bet anything the caller was a shill.  That has all the earmarks of being a shill.

People in MLMs lie, lie, lie about how much money they make.

It's been proven that the most successful people in Mary Kay who drive the pink car only net around 30K - 35K a year. But they say they earn a lot more than that. A friend of mine had a neighbor (man) in Mary Kay who drove the pink car and lived in a nice, big home. He recruited her and she became part of his downline. About a year later, I asked about him...she said he'd moved out of the neighborhood because his home got repossessed. And she had quit the Mary Kay business also.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Helvegen on November 04, 2017, 07:36:49 AM
A long, depressing read:

https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/

Thank you for this link.  a very useful read. 

posting to follow.

I read that article in the car last night on the way home. At one point, I looked up and amusingly enough saw posted on the back of someone's SUV an ad for a MLM I hadn't heard of yet - Pure Romance.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Apple_Tango on November 05, 2017, 11:13:54 AM

posting to follow.
[/quote]

I read that article in the car last night on the way home. At one point, I looked up and amusingly enough saw posted on the back of someone's SUV an ad for a MLM I hadn't heard of yet - Pure Romance.
[/quote]

I have been in the audience for a pure romance party, it's sex toys and lube and things like that. I used to dance so it was just a fun evening for us at the studio. I liked the products and would purchase again  😳 But heck no I would never buy into the MLM!!! Haha of course they pass out forms asking if you want to "host" a party. I would rather shot myself in the leg.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on November 06, 2017, 11:09:32 AM
UGH!  Lately I have been an MLM magnet!

On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches".  They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I  can be my own boss and such.  I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no.  Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.

today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with.  She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years.  I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is.  I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola.   Sorry I just needed to rant about it.
Oh Beachbody.  Such good workouts and recipes... such a bad way to make money and prey on people.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on November 06, 2017, 04:52:32 PM
Oh Beachbody.  Such good workouts and recipes... such a bad way to make money and prey on people.

It seems to be a trend with MLMs: decent product, but a business model designed to grossly inflate the price and bring out the hate and mistrust in people.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on November 06, 2017, 10:16:10 PM
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings.  She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free.  Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings.  She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is).  She doesn't work (on disability).  I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?

I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10).  But... I kind of don't want to engage.  So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on November 07, 2017, 08:05:19 AM
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings.  She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free.  Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings.  She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is).  She doesn't work (on disability).  I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?

I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10).  But... I kind of don't want to engage.  So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.

For that amount of money, I can get business attire to last three full years including the shoes.

Disability is weird, though. You're not allowed to save or accumulate significant amounts of money. If you scrape together enough for, say, an inexpensive $5,000 vehicle the benefits are cut.

Edited to add: this is why there's actually a financial incentive to put windfalls or savings into belongings.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 07, 2017, 10:54:20 AM
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings.  She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free.  Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings.  She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is).  She doesn't work (on disability).  I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?

I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10).  But... I kind of don't want to engage.  So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.

I tried to tell a friend about buying that stuff on ebay for less. She said she had to have "brand new". I tried to explain you could get brand new on ebay from dealers who are going out of business. She wouldn't listen. So I gave up. It's her money and she wants to waste it, fine.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on November 07, 2017, 01:13:38 PM
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings.  She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free.  Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings.  She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is).  She doesn't work (on disability).  I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?

I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10).  But... I kind of don't want to engage.  So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.

I tried to tell a friend about buying that stuff on ebay for less. She said she had to have "brand new". I tried to explain you could get brand new on ebay from dealers who are going out of business. She wouldn't listen. So I gave up. It's her money and she wants to waste it, fine.

Yeah, the market is completely flooded (even though it's pretty "brand new" to our area).  You can get the same exact leggings from someone else, brand new, for less than half the price...

Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on November 07, 2017, 01:15:47 PM
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings.  She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free.  Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings.  She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is).  She doesn't work (on disability).  I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?

I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10).  But... I kind of don't want to engage.  So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.

For that amount of money, I can get business attire to last three full years including the shoes.

Disability is weird, though. You're not allowed to save or accumulate significant amounts of money. If you scrape together enough for, say, an inexpensive $5,000 vehicle the benefits are cut.

Edited to add: this is why there's actually a financial incentive to put windfalls or savings into belongings.

Disability is definitely weird...  I think her parent's own her place, so she doesn't have rent/mortgage, so most of her money goes to utilities, her animals, and "treating herself".  I think she is still trying to get off the disability and find a job though, as she's pretty isolated.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: infogoon on November 07, 2017, 02:31:36 PM
Leggings related note: heard a young lady wearing them complaining yesterday that her legs were cold, even though winter hasn't really started yet.

Maybe LLR should start selling actual pants for these people.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreaming on November 07, 2017, 02:48:13 PM
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.

My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!

Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.

The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.

Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.

I don't believe the man's story about his wife making 200K even if she's not including her business expenses. I think the guy might even be a plant for the failing Lularoe business. That's pretty clever of Lularoe, though. Got to hand it to them.

But yes, it's common people in MLM will state they earn a certain amount, and they do - but they don't include their business expenses or how much they spent on the inventory.

Well, looks like there may be a little life left in Lularoe.  They are coming out very soon with the LuLaRoe Color Collection: NOIR.  It's an all black capsule of their classic pieces.  People love black and I can see a big up tick in sales because of this.  Comments on a LaLaRoe buying group about this include: Eeeeeekkkkssss!!!!, Yep, now I'm in trouble, I need this, Yes!!!, I will knock down doors of local girls who get these Julia's in my size, Well it's about damn time; I would cut someone for a black Sarah, Gah!  Neeeeed These!!!.

I still have zero interest in buying any of it. 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: hops on November 08, 2017, 12:48:17 PM
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MsSindy on November 08, 2017, 02:17:09 PM
I was scoping out a local (NJ) Women's Expo for my business last month.  It is basically an expo for women to shop.  There were a couple hundred booths set up with things such as jewelry, skincare, oils, tarot readers, hair care, some clothes, and various things like that.  There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!!  And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces.  Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days.  Crazy!    ...and there were customers in their booths.

There was also a huge section for a clothing brand where everyone was just standing around waiting for customers (so they could pounce!).  But no one was going over there - it was too intimidating.  I think the brand was Matilda Jane???

Not my clientele, but, anyway, thought of this thread.....
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 08, 2017, 02:18:39 PM
There was also a huge section for a clothing brand where everyone was just standing around waiting for customers (so they could pounce!).  But no one was going over there - it was too intimidating.  I think the brand was Matilda Jane???

Not my clientele, but, anyway, thought of this thread.....

Matilda Jane = ridiculously over-priced, overly-frilled, pretentious children's clothing.

My opinion.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on November 08, 2017, 02:31:10 PM
My facebook is blowing up over the black LLR. I wonder if it will all be sold grab bag style so consultants can get rid of their ugly crap.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on November 08, 2017, 02:45:48 PM
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety

I've seen this before.  There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people?  But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on November 08, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety

I've seen this before.  There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people?  But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>

"rub three times in a circular clockwise pattern [in your palm] to activate the electrical properties of the oil that aligns you DNA"   (paraphrased).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: solon on November 08, 2017, 03:23:12 PM
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety

I've seen this before.  There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people?  But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>

"rub three times in a circular clockwise pattern [in your palm] to activate the electrical properties of the oil that aligns you DNA"   (paraphrased).

If the oil is in my left palm, and I rub with my right palm in a clockwise pattern, isn't my left hand essentially rubbing counterclockwise? Won't that counteract the electrical properties of the oil and confuse my DNA?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 08, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
One of these essential oils salespeople went on  a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections.  Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.

It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on November 08, 2017, 03:33:40 PM
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety

I've seen this before.  There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people?  But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>

"rub three times in a circular clockwise pattern [in your palm] to activate the electrical properties of the oil that aligns you DNA"   (paraphrased).

If the oil is in my left palm, and I rub with my right palm in a clockwise pattern, isn't my left hand essentially rubbing counterclockwise? Won't that counteract the electrical properties of the oil and confuse my DNA?



You're confusing the polarity! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_i_IikokNU) 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on November 08, 2017, 03:46:42 PM
There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!!  And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces.  Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days.  Crazy!    ...and there were customers in their booths.


Were they at least selling different things?  This seems to be the main problem with the MLM business model in a nutshell - distributors so local they're leaching from each other.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on November 08, 2017, 03:58:06 PM
There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!!  And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces.  Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days.  Crazy!    ...and there were customers in their booths.


Were they at least selling different things?  This seems to be the main problem with the MLM business model in a nutshell - distributors so local they're leaching from each other.

The way LLR is set up, the distributor only has choice on size and style, no control over print, they just get what they are sent.  So, it's likely that the prints were different, but the actual clothes were the same.  It's how the company has developed a "rush" on certain patterns, etc.  They claim to make only 1k or 5k items of each print.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on November 08, 2017, 04:17:25 PM
One of these essential oils salespeople went on  a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections.  Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.

It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
They aren't selling anything but same in the breastfeeding community. Anything wrong with the kid? Throw breastmilk on it. Pink eye, diaper rash, baby acne, cuts and bruises.

Never throw out expired milk. Put it in the bath instead.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 08, 2017, 06:44:19 PM
One of these essential oils salespeople went on  a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections.  Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.

It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
They aren't selling anything but same in the breastfeeding community. Anything wrong with the kid? Throw breastmilk on it. Pink eye, diaper rash, baby acne, cuts and bruises.


I've seen the same, claiming that breastmilk can cure "anything" (not true).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Tass on November 08, 2017, 07:28:59 PM
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety

I've seen this before.  There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people?  But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>

"rub three times in a circular clockwise pattern [in your palm] to activate the electrical properties of the oil that aligns you DNA"   (paraphrased).

I was really hoping that "paraphrased" meant "exaggerated," but alas. Same with "more than zero dollars per month"...

You have to wonder how many people at the tops of these things genuinely believe the crap they're selling versus know they can manipulate people into making them rich. Accidentally killing your own infant daughter because you thought you knew how to birth a baby better than a doctor is pretty serious dedication.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LeRainDrop on November 08, 2017, 07:36:46 PM
One of these essential oils salespeople went on  a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections.  Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.

It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
They aren't selling anything but same in the breastfeeding community. Anything wrong with the kid? Throw breastmilk on it. Pink eye, diaper rash, baby acne, cuts and bruises.


I've seen the same, claiming that breastmilk can cure "anything" (not true).

Crazy! And it reminds me of those placenta pills that I see a number of my MLM friends have bought into. Maybe someone already posted about that here? I can't remember.  http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/ct-cdc-warns-against-placenta-pills-20170706-story.html
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ixtap on November 08, 2017, 07:51:51 PM
What did I even just read?? I mean I know that the sellers believe that essential oils are chemical free, but do they know this guy is a certifiable, criminal, nut case?!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: zolotiyeruki on November 08, 2017, 08:47:56 PM
I was scoping out a local (NJ) Women's Expo for my business last month.  It is basically an expo for women to shop.  There were a couple hundred booths set up with things such as jewelry, skincare, oils, tarot readers, hair care, some clothes, and various things like that.  There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!!  And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces.  Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days.  Crazy!    ...and there were customers in their booths.
As someone who goes to a fair number of expos/conferences/conventions as an exhibitor, I can tell you that $750 for a 10x10 booth is actually on the cheap end of things.  Depending on what show we're at, it can be three times that cost.  Of course, all those MLM sellers are hoping to make back not only their $750, but the cost of the goods they're selling, and then make enough money to take something home.  I find it a bit hard to believe they made a profit :)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: ringer707 on November 09, 2017, 06:55:18 AM
Has anyone seen the latest MLM, Xyngular? I have friends who have recently started this weight loss MLM and are now hawking it everywhere. One girl, who has been quite overweight for some time, posted on Facebook that she lost 7 POUNDS in the first TWO days. I have to assume this stuff is just some horrific combination of diuretics and laxatives.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: BeanCounter on November 09, 2017, 07:17:32 AM
I feel like I need to come clean here- yesterday a FB friend who sells LuLaRoe posted a really cute OOTD. If she would have sold me just the skirt without shipping costs, I would have bought it.
There. I feel better now.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Just Joe on November 09, 2017, 07:33:12 AM
LLR - I'm watching this from afar b/c DW has no interest in them our girly relatives don't live in our town. 

Question: there aren't any other brands that offer the same kind of clothing for similar or lower prices?

Essential oils: I don't want to apply anything to my body that will fool around with my DNA (I know it really doesn't). Why doesn't that sound risky to the people who believe in the sales spiel? Why doesn't that sound like something that could be risky?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on November 09, 2017, 08:40:18 AM
What did I even just read?? I mean I know that the sellers believe that essential oils are chemical free, but do they know this guy is a certifiable, criminal, nut case?!
That's why some of them split off and formed doTerra.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on November 09, 2017, 10:21:20 AM
LLR - I'm watching this from afar b/c DW has no interest in them our girly relatives don't live in our town. 

Question: there aren't any other brands that offer the same kind of clothing for similar or lower prices?

Essential oils: I don't want to apply anything to my body that will fool around with my DNA (I know it really doesn't). Why doesn't that sound risky to the people who believe in the sales spiel? Why doesn't that sound like something that could be risky?

DNA has become yet another marketing term.  It's either used to invoke the devil (GMOs put DNA in your food!) or described as a superficially relevant organ such as this "oils" business.  I'm sure there's an MLM that asks you to eat their food because it "cleanses" your DNA (as if the building blocks of your body were the same as fish tank water).
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Tass on November 09, 2017, 10:30:29 AM
Essential oils: I don't want to apply anything to my body that will fool around with my DNA (I know it really doesn't). Why doesn't that sound risky to the people who believe in the sales spiel? Why doesn't that sound like something that could be risky?

Right??? Messing with your DNA is how you get cancer!

There was some anti-GMO campaign a while back (which honestly may have been satirical, I'm not sure) lobbying to label all foods with DNA in them. Friends and I had a good laugh trying to figure out what foods don't have DNA in them. Salt and water is all I've got - assuming both are free of microorganisms, of course. Perhaps blood, if you were to filter out the immune cells (mammalian red blood cells don't have nuceli or mitochondria). So I guess vampires are safe.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mm1970 on November 09, 2017, 10:35:24 AM
One of these essential oils salespeople went on  a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections.  Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.

It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
They aren't selling anything but same in the breastfeeding community. Anything wrong with the kid? Throw breastmilk on it. Pink eye, diaper rash, baby acne, cuts and bruises.


I've seen the same, claiming that breastmilk can cure "anything" (not true).
Hey, but when I was nursing kid #2, one of my neighbors' kids had an eye infection.  She gave me half a dozen eggs from her chickens in exchange for some extra milk.  I won that trade!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Roe on November 09, 2017, 12:47:05 PM
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety

I've seen this before.  There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people?  But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>

"rub three times in a circular clockwise pattern [in your palm] to activate the electrical properties of the oil that aligns you DNA"   (paraphrased).

If the oil is in my left palm, and I rub with my right palm in a clockwise pattern, isn't my left hand essentially rubbing counterclockwise? Won't that counteract the electrical properties of the oil and confuse my DNA?

A secret little tip: it doesn't matter what way you rub, you can go either way. Ofcourse, you have to go the same way each time. If you go counter clockwise one day, and clockwise another, you start rubbing against DNA grain and you risk breaking DNA strands at the root. #science
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on November 09, 2017, 11:25:01 PM
Someone posted on facebook today, looking for a "Younique dealer" (a make-up MLM).  I live in a fairly small town (about 14k people).  Curious, I looked on city-data and found that about 6k of those people are female.  Let's say 2/3 of those women are at an age where they wear makeup.  That leaves a max customer base of 4k people to sell to (many of the women in this town don't wear makeup though, and if they do, they use a much cheaper brand you can find at the store...but, we'll go with 4k anyway).

Response to that one request?  27 "bossbabes".  27.  Our town doesn't even have a Walmart, but we have 27 people (at least) trying to hawk an expensive makeup.

I know people want to have a "downline", so they can make money off them, but at some point there are just too many people selling the same thing.  I haven't paid much attention to how many MLM sellers there are for each company, but I think I may start to pay attention.  I know that there were a lot of Visalus (or whatever the shake company was called) sellers for a while, but I think most gave up.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Villanelle on November 10, 2017, 05:10:39 AM
I'll admit to owning and loving a couple pairs of LLR leggings.  Expensive, yes, but I don't consider $25 for pants to be obscene./confession

Anyway, I'm still a part of several groups on Facebook which I joined while I was looking for prints I liked when I was shopping for my pairs. Some sellers actually offer a service where they will put a "Congratulations!  You won this!" note in the packages, so that women can hide from their husbands the fact that they've spent more money on LLR purchases.

How shady is that!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: I'm a red panda on November 10, 2017, 07:25:57 AM
I'll admit to owning and loving a couple pairs of LLR leggings.  Expensive, yes, but I don't consider $25 for pants to be obscene./confession

Anyway, I'm still a part of several groups on Facebook which I joined while I was looking for prints I liked when I was shopping for my pairs. Some sellers actually offer a service where they will put a "Congratulations!  You won this!" note in the packages, so that women can hide from their husbands the fact that they've spent more money on LLR purchases.

How shady is that!

I've noticed in all my hobbies (sewing, quilting, knitting, vinyl transfer, nail polish) there is a huge amount of talk of getting purchases hidden from husbands.  It's kind of sickening.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on November 10, 2017, 08:44:41 AM
Wow. I can't imagine lying to my husband about money. If he did, I'd wonder what else he was lying to me about.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on November 10, 2017, 09:35:06 AM
Check out the LLR map.  No idea if this is actual # of consultants or if these are the consultants who wanted to be listed, but that's a ton of market saturation!

https://www.lularoe.com/shop-lularoe/

As for the new Noir collection, WTH is pastel black?  Gray, perhaps?  Or is it the color that their black will fade to after a wash?  The current running joke is that they have taken all the consultant returns and dyed them black for this new line.  :)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: englishteacheralex on November 10, 2017, 09:36:37 AM
YES! That was something that happened at a jewelry party I went to years ago. At the end of the presentation she talked about being able to hide purchases on the credit card so that husbands wouldn't see.

HORRIFYING! It was treated as a joke and everybody laughed. I couldn't believe it, because the women were all heavy hitters at my church and hiding purchases from your husband just seemed so antithetical from anything I've ever heard about marriage at church.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: runbikerun on November 10, 2017, 09:41:52 AM
I'll admit to owning and loving a couple pairs of LLR leggings.  Expensive, yes, but I don't consider $25 for pants to be obscene./confession

Anyway, I'm still a part of several groups on Facebook which I joined while I was looking for prints I liked when I was shopping for my pairs. Some sellers actually offer a service where they will put a "Congratulations!  You won this!" note in the packages, so that women can hide from their husbands the fact that they've spent more money on LLR purchases.

How shady is that!

I've noticed in all my hobbies (sewing, quilting, knitting, vinyl transfer, nail polish) there is a huge amount of talk of getting purchases hidden from husbands.  It's kind of sickening.

When I was in a triathlon club, one of the male triathletes had a training bike, a fabulously expensive aero road bike and a fabulously expensive triathlon bike. They were all all matt-black Specialized bikes with red graphics and bar tape, because that way he could keep one at the office and not have his wife realise he'd spent four thousand euro on a Venge frameset.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Hunny156 on November 10, 2017, 09:43:42 AM
I was scoping out a local (NJ) Women's Expo for my business last month.  It is basically an expo for women to shop.  There were a couple hundred booths set up with things such as jewelry, skincare, oils, tarot readers, hair care, some clothes, and various things like that.  There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!!  And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces.  Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days.  Crazy!    ...and there were customers in their booths.
As someone who goes to a fair number of expos/conferences/conventions as an exhibitor, I can tell you that $750 for a 10x10 booth is actually on the cheap end of things.  Depending on what show we're at, it can be three times that cost.  Of course, all those MLM sellers are hoping to make back not only their $750, but the cost of the goods they're selling, and then make enough money to take something home.  I find it a bit hard to believe they made a profit :)

I attended a local Women's Conference recently.  A 10 x 10 corner booth was $875, plus the cost of carpeting, walls, electrical and internet access.  They had an entire section of the trade floor devoted to "women owned businesses".  There was a handful of vendors who actually made their own items.  Everything else covered the gamut of the biggest MLM's right now, to the guy on the corner who sells "closeout" 1200 TC sheet sets for $20.  Sadly, most of the women in the trade floor were there to shop.  Only a few of us saw the irony of allowing these MLM's, who exploit women, to be at a women's conference.  I received a survey after the event, and I made my feelings known about the subject.  I doubt it will change anything.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Helvegen on November 10, 2017, 10:31:45 AM
Someone posted on facebook today, looking for a "Younique dealer" (a make-up MLM).  I live in a fairly small town (about 14k people).  Curious, I looked on city-data and found that about 6k of those people are female.  Let's say 2/3 of those women are at an age where they wear makeup.  That leaves a max customer base of 4k people to sell to (many of the women in this town don't wear makeup though, and if they do, they use a much cheaper brand you can find at the store...but, we'll go with 4k anyway).

Response to that one request?  27 "bossbabes".  27.  Our town doesn't even have a Walmart, but we have 27 people (at least) trying to hawk an expensive makeup.

I know people want to have a "downline", so they can make money off them, but at some point there are just too many people selling the same thing.  I haven't paid much attention to how many MLM sellers there are for each company, but I think I may start to pay attention.  I know that there were a lot of Visalus (or whatever the shake company was called) sellers for a while, but I think most gave up.

Doesn't it only take like 14 cycles before you have recruited everyone on Earth or so?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on November 10, 2017, 10:55:50 AM
Someone posted on facebook today, looking for a "Younique dealer" (a make-up MLM).  I live in a fairly small town (about 14k people).  Curious, I looked on city-data and found that about 6k of those people are female.  Let's say 2/3 of those women are at an age where they wear makeup.  That leaves a max customer base of 4k people to sell to (many of the women in this town don't wear makeup though, and if they do, they use a much cheaper brand you can find at the store...but, we'll go with 4k anyway).

Response to that one request?  27 "bossbabes".  27.  Our town doesn't even have a Walmart, but we have 27 people (at least) trying to hawk an expensive makeup.

I know people want to have a "downline", so they can make money off them, but at some point there are just too many people selling the same thing.  I haven't paid much attention to how many MLM sellers there are for each company, but I think I may start to pay attention.  I know that there were a lot of Visalus (or whatever the shake company was called) sellers for a while, but I think most gave up.

Doesn't it only take like 14 cycles before you have recruited everyone on Earth or so?

But that's only true for a pyramid scheme! ;)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Helvegen on November 10, 2017, 11:02:42 AM
Someone posted on facebook today, looking for a "Younique dealer" (a make-up MLM).  I live in a fairly small town (about 14k people).  Curious, I looked on city-data and found that about 6k of those people are female.  Let's say 2/3 of those women are at an age where they wear makeup.  That leaves a max customer base of 4k people to sell to (many of the women in this town don't wear makeup though, and if they do, they use a much cheaper brand you can find at the store...but, we'll go with 4k anyway).

Response to that one request?  27 "bossbabes".  27.  Our town doesn't even have a Walmart, but we have 27 people (at least) trying to hawk an expensive makeup.

I know people want to have a "downline", so they can make money off them, but at some point there are just too many people selling the same thing.  I haven't paid much attention to how many MLM sellers there are for each company, but I think I may start to pay attention.  I know that there were a lot of Visalus (or whatever the shake company was called) sellers for a while, but I think most gave up.

Doesn't it only take like 14 cycles before you have recruited everyone on Earth or so?

But that's only true for a pyramid scheme! ;)

Not like this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTOgK8oQep4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTOgK8oQep4)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 10, 2017, 12:52:26 PM
YES! That was something that happened at a jewelry party I went to years ago. At the end of the presentation she talked about being able to hide purchases on the credit card so that husbands wouldn't see.

Typical in Mary Kay also. They say "it's easier to beg forgiveness, than to ask for permission". Meaning you should use the credit card to buy 5K of inventory, then beg for forgiveness if the husband finds out.

I'm sure hiding financial issues from one's spouse is a great formula for a successful marriage.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on November 13, 2017, 10:16:56 AM
Doesn't it only take like 14 cycles before you have recruited everyone on Earth or so?
Yes, 14 levels of recruits with each distributor recruiting 3 distributors under them comes to about 7.2 billion people. It might take 22 cycles if every distributor only recruits 2 people as direct downlines, or only 11 cycles if each level recurits 4. Gotta build the business, sales don't really matter.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreaming on November 13, 2017, 12:31:39 PM
Check out the LLR map.  No idea if this is actual # of consultants or if these are the consultants who wanted to be listed, but that's a ton of market saturation!

https://www.lularoe.com/shop-lularoe/

As for the new Noir collection, WTH is pastel black?  Gray, perhaps?  Or is it the color that their black will fade to after a wash?  The current running joke is that they have taken all the consultant returns and dyed them black for this new line.  :)

It's not all the consultants.  I know a few people who are and they are not on the map.  So, the market is even more saturated that the map shows.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreadmoose on November 13, 2017, 03:54:28 PM
Just recently had a good friend's spouse start up with Monat that recently starting posting more and more desperately. (such as #friendshelpfriends along with a plea for purchases).

I'd usually just ignore this, but this is such a close friend that it will come up and make for some rather awkward conversations.

I was hoping to strike a firm stance on that I don't support MLM's but believe that will lead into a huge conversation of what an MLM is and how Monat must not be one. I have tried finding specific information on this company but they use all the normal tricks (paid for "Is this a scam?" websites that are actually just schilling the product along, etc)

Is anyone good at sleuthing out specific income disclosure statements from these companies. I was under the impression that they had to release these under law (in Canada) but can't seem to find one for Monat. I believe the best argument is similar to the other statements I've read that all lead to "nobody makes any money at these"

ie: https://www.talentedladiesclub.com/articles/why-were-not-publishing-any-more-mlm-income-disclosure-statements/
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on November 13, 2017, 06:44:54 PM
Check out the LLR map.  No idea if this is actual # of consultants or if these are the consultants who wanted to be listed, but that's a ton of market saturation!

https://www.lularoe.com/shop-lularoe/

As for the new Noir collection, WTH is pastel black?  Gray, perhaps?  Or is it the color that their black will fade to after a wash?  The current running joke is that they have taken all the consultant returns and dyed them black for this new line.  :)

It's not all the consultants.  I know a few people who are and they are not on the map.  So, the market is even more saturated that the map shows.

Don't remember where I read it, but there was a lot of controversy in the publication of this map.  Some people were former consultants, some were current, etc, but they were just put on the map without their knowledge.  One woman found out about the map when she got a knock at some ungodly hour, from a woman she didn't know, demanding a refund for damaged leggings that she got from another seller! 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: sparkytheop on November 13, 2017, 06:58:32 PM
Just recently had a good friend's spouse start up with Monat that recently starting posting more and more desperately. (such as #friendshelpfriends along with a plea for purchases).

I'd usually just ignore this, but this is such a close friend that it will come up and make for some rather awkward conversations.

I was hoping to strike a firm stance on that I don't support MLM's but believe that will lead into a huge conversation of what an MLM is and how Monat must not be one. I have tried finding specific information on this company but they use all the normal tricks (paid for "Is this a scam?" websites that are actually just schilling the product along, etc)

Is anyone good at sleuthing out specific income disclosure statements from these companies. I was under the impression that they had to release these under law (in Canada) but can't seem to find one for Monat. I believe the best argument is similar to the other statements I've read that all lead to "nobody makes any money at these"

ie: https://www.talentedladiesclub.com/articles/why-were-not-publishing-any-more-mlm-income-disclosure-statements/

Their compensation plan (for the US anyway)

http://monatglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Compensation-Plan_US_052017.pdf

I found this for Canada...

http://www.average2awesome.com/uploads/1/6/0/6/16063634/canadian-compensation-plan.pdf

This is on the last page (bolding is mine, for emphasis):

"The primary source of income of a typical participant in the Compensation Plan (the “Plan” or the “Canadian Plan”) of MONAT Global Canada ULC. (“MONAT”) is from compensation on personal and downline sales of products and/or services. Personal earnings will vary. A Typical Participant in the Plan is defined as a participant who actively engages in the activities necessary to realize the benefits of the Plan (i.e. has achieved at least the rank of Managing Market Partner).
A Typical Participant in the Plan earns between Cdn $22 and $1,188 annualized.
       
Please note that these earnings are estimates and have been derived from the earnings experience of MONAT’s U.S. parent company, which operates similar and comparable compensation plans, selling comparable products in the United States and worldwide. These earnings estimates will be reviewed after 6 months of operation of the Canadian Plan. After one year, this Statement of Typical Participant Earnings will be updated with compensation actually received by typical participants in the Canadian Plan, and then updated annually thereafter."

So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month!  Ouch.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mustachepungoeshere on November 13, 2017, 07:02:56 PM
I'll admit to owning and loving a couple pairs of LLR leggings.  Expensive, yes, but I don't consider $25 for pants to be obscene./confession

Anyway, I'm still a part of several groups on Facebook which I joined while I was looking for prints I liked when I was shopping for my pairs. Some sellers actually offer a service where they will put a "Congratulations!  You won this!" note in the packages, so that women can hide from their husbands the fact that they've spent more money on LLR purchases.

How shady is that!

I've noticed in all my hobbies (sewing, quilting, knitting, vinyl transfer, nail polish) there is a huge amount of talk of getting purchases hidden from husbands.  It's kind of sickening.

When I was in a triathlon club, one of the male triathletes had a training bike, a fabulously expensive aero road bike and a fabulously expensive triathlon bike. They were all all matt-black Specialized bikes with red graphics and bar tape, because that way he could keep one at the office and not have his wife realise he'd spent four thousand euro on a Venge frameset.

A Christian girl who was friends with my husband's family got married young. As soon as the wedding was over, she started buying baby things - not a onesie here or there, but the big ticket items. She bought a pram, cot, a baby bath, car seat, etc, and had them all delivered to her workplace so the husband wouldn't know. She also recently 'confessed' on Facebook to having 67 pairs of shoes for her six month-old-daughter.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: YogiKitti on November 13, 2017, 07:59:10 PM
Quote
She bought a pram, cot, a baby bath, car seat, etc, and had them all delivered to her workplace so the husband wouldn't know.


Did she keep them in her office? How do you sneak those bulky things into a house?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on November 13, 2017, 09:34:44 PM


So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month!  Ouch.

By that comparison, panhandling is downright lucrative and much less stressful.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: StockBeard on November 14, 2017, 01:52:01 AM


So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month!  Ouch.

By that comparison, panhandling is downright lucrative and much less stressful.
And in general, in those "compensation plan" disclosures, this is the amount received *before* substracting expenses. The typical seller actually loses money in these schemes, if they properly take expenses into account.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: MrsDinero on November 14, 2017, 07:21:25 AM
Tis the season!  So far I have been invited to a Pampered Chef Party at a friend's house and for an online Young Living EO party.

I also saw some flyers for local craft fairs and they listed the types of vendors.  At first I was excited about the craft fairs because I crochet and knit and am considering doing a craft fair next year, then I saw that out of 50 vendors so far signed up about 30 of them were MLM companies!  How are those even in the same category as crafts?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Just Joe on November 14, 2017, 08:48:37 AM
Want wants to work that hard for $1500 a year? Who wants to strain their social relations that hard for $1500?

Most regular folks could probably find multiples of that in savings if they applied MMM tactics to their family spending.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on November 14, 2017, 08:55:49 AM
Did she keep them in her office? How do you sneak those bulky things into a house?
Probably had an office baby shower and brought home the bulk of the purchases along with the gifts from the shower.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: dreadmoose on November 14, 2017, 10:12:08 AM
Their compensation plan (for the US anyway)

http://monatglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Compensation-Plan_US_052017.pdf

I found this for Canada...

http://www.average2awesome.com/uploads/1/6/0/6/16063634/canadian-compensation-plan.pdf

This is on the last page (bolding is mine, for emphasis):

"The primary source of income of a typical participant in the Compensation Plan (the “Plan” or the “Canadian Plan”) of MONAT Global Canada ULC. (“MONAT”) is from compensation on personal and downline sales of products and/or services. Personal earnings will vary. A Typical Participant in the Plan is defined as a participant who actively engages in the activities necessary to realize the benefits of the Plan (i.e. has achieved at least the rank of Managing Market Partner).
A Typical Participant in the Plan earns between Cdn $22 and $1,188 annualized.
       
Please note that these earnings are estimates and have been derived from the earnings experience of MONAT’s U.S. parent company, which operates similar and comparable compensation plans, selling comparable products in the United States and worldwide. These earnings estimates will be reviewed after 6 months of operation of the Canadian Plan. After one year, this Statement of Typical Participant Earnings will be updated with compensation actually received by typical participants in the Canadian Plan, and then updated annually thereafter."

So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month!  Ouch.

Thank you! I totally missed that last line... and I find it quite hilarious that the Canadian document says they will update within 6 months and then they completely remove that line from their later statements. Those 6 months must have showed that it was even worse than 1.83 to 99 per month.

I wish there was more of a push for regulation on these companies, they are literally ruining peoples lives while focusing on the most vulnerable population to these scams. Failed pyramid scheme legislation.. just having a product doesn't make it not predacious.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: mydogismyheart on November 14, 2017, 02:13:59 PM
I got suckered into one of these many many years ago.  I was young and dumb but don't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson! Anyway, I was following Dave Ramsey at the time and desperately trying to get my debts paid off, I was making decent money but wanted to make as much as I could to ramp things up faster.  I was told it was a very different type of company.  I don't remember the name of it anymore (maybe someone else on here will recognize it).  Anyway, it's a company where you sign people up for services that they are already using, but when they sign up through you then you get a small percentage each time they pay their monthly bill.  Services like cell phones, cable tv, internet, even some electricity.  It was 100% an MLM as you also had to sign people up to start working under you  and also get people to sign up, and so on.  My friend that got me involved told me it was how he was able to take a year off of work and spend time with his daughter instead.  He gave a good talk so I got involved.

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends.  I would offer it to them if they wanted but I would not pressure anyone.  I told them they had to show me different ways to gain customers or I would not be involved.  They promised it would be easy to find customers because most people have cell phones, electricity, cable, satellite tv, etc...

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them.  When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required.  He drove me nuts for weeks, I started completely ignoring his messages and when I would listen to his voicemails they always sounded like he was talking to me like a little kid and I needed to do what the "grownup" told me to do. (Not really of course, but that's how it felt).

I called and cancelled my "membership" and never spoke to him again.

Awhile later the friend of mine who talked me into signing up admitted that it was all a scam and he never really made any money off of it.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Beard N Bones on November 14, 2017, 02:46:11 PM

Thank you! I totally missed that last line... and I find it quite hilarious that the Canadian document says they will update within 6 months and then they completely remove that line from their later statements. Those 6 months must have showed that it was even worse than 1.83 to 99 per month.

I wish there was more of a push for regulation on these companies, they are literally ruining peoples lives while focusing on the most vulnerable population to these scams. Failed pyramid scheme legislation.. just having a product doesn't make it not predacious.

If you are looking for the ultimate article in MLM's in general, John Taylor has produced a great article called "Multi-Level Marketing Unmasked: A Complete and Compelling Case against MLM as an Unfair and Deceptive Practice"  This a 476 page read.  Its a convincing, logical, worthwhile read.  I do believe there is a 40 page condensed version of this.  I'll attach the condensed version for your convenience (but the last time I did this, it only posted on this forum for a short while.  The full version is worth reading.)
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on November 14, 2017, 03:06:12 PM
I got suckered into one of these many many years ago.  I was young and dumb but don't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson! Anyway, I was following Dave Ramsey at the time and desperately trying to get my debts paid off, I was making decent money but wanted to make as much as I could to ramp things up faster.  I was told it was a very different type of company.  I don't remember the name of it anymore (maybe someone else on here will recognize it).  Anyway, it's a company where you sign people up for services that they are already using, but when they sign up through you then you get a small percentage each time they pay their monthly bill.  Services like cell phones, cable tv, internet, even some electricity.  It was 100% an MLM as you also had to sign people up to start working under you  and also get people to sign up, and so on.  My friend that got me involved told me it was how he was able to take a year off of work and spend time with his daughter instead.  He gave a good talk so I got involved.

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends.  I would offer it to them if they wanted but I would not pressure anyone.  I told them they had to show me different ways to gain customers or I would not be involved.  They promised it would be easy to find customers because most people have cell phones, electricity, cable, satellite tv, etc...

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them.  When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required.  He drove me nuts for weeks, I started completely ignoring his messages and when I would listen to his voicemails they always sounded like he was talking to me like a little kid and I needed to do what the "grownup" told me to do. (Not really of course, but that's how it felt).

I called and cancelled my "membership" and never spoke to him again.

Awhile later the friend of mine who talked me into signing up admitted that it was all a scam and he never really made any money off of it.

They're still around in some form.  I don't remember the name, but I remember being hit up for this kind of service within the last year or two (State Fair? Somebody had a booth or a table).  Now it's going to bug me until I figure it out.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on November 14, 2017, 03:24:44 PM

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends. 

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them. 

This is the challenge -- many sales "jobs" require you to provide a contact list that you start calling to generate sales, starting with friends and family.   This includes the commissioned vacuum cleaner sales (filter queen,kirby etc), financial product sales (some of which are MLM), cutco knives, legal aid contracts, and the utility contracts.

Some of these sales jobs even generate some commission $'s for the people that start working for them, for a little while.. but usually far less than minimum wage.   

Oh so many of them know that you will only sell to a few family and friends, and then you are done.   You are only "hired" on commission to sell a few units to your grandmother, who wants to help you succeed, but doesn't need a knife set..

The challenge with the MLM scenario posted by mydogismyheart -- is that your UPLINE wants to use your contact list to generate commissions for himself!!  Sometimes it is under the guise of training you, but in the end the $$'s goes to your "trainer", not you because they fill out the form and sign the client up directly under the trainer's name.   YUCK.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Beard N Bones on November 14, 2017, 03:43:27 PM

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends. 

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them. 

This is the challenge -- many sales "jobs" require you to provide a contact list that you start calling to generate sales, starting with friends and family.   This includes the commissioned vacuum cleaner sales (filter queen,kirby etc), financial product sales (some of which are MLM), cutco knives, legal aid contracts, and the utility contracts.

Some of these sales jobs even generate some commission $'s for the people that start working for them, for a little while.. but usually far less than minimum wage.   

Oh so many of them know that you will only sell to a few family and friends, and then you are done.   You are only "hired" on commission to sell a few units to your grandmother, who wants to help you succeed, but doesn't need a knife set..

The challenge with the MLM scenario posted by mydogismyheart -- is that your UPLINE wants to use your contact list to generate commissions for himself!!  Sometimes it is under the guise of training you, but in the end the $$'s goes to your "trainer", not you because they fill out the form and sign the client up directly under the trainer's name.   YUCK.

There is a huge misconception that the old-school door-to-door salesman gets paid the same as those that are in MLMs.  Old-school door-to-door salesman do NOT get paid the same as those that are in MLMs - as the old school salesman gets most of his income from the sales of the product and some from his ("guaranteed") hourly wage/salary.  The MLM promotor rarely makes money from sales and "makes" his/her money from recruiting and having a "downline."  As earlier mentioned, to make commission from the downline, they need to make monthly/ongoing purchases.  So ultimately, the vast majority of money they receive is from those in their downline and all/most of their profit is also going to their upline.  This by definition, is a pyramid scheme.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Goldielocks on November 14, 2017, 04:02:18 PM
I was unclear.  I am not saying that commissioned sales people == MLMs, just that the poster's comment about the upline taking your contact leads for themselves is similar between some MLMs and some commissioned sales jobs.

All of the companies I named are supposed to pay minimum wages to employees as a "floor", and none of them here do, rather the "sales person" gets pushed out shortly after they hand over their personal contact lists.   At the end of the day that $99 per month  MLM income listed is pretty typical of the sales commissions received by my friends.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Proud Foot on November 17, 2017, 03:17:05 PM
Wow I just don't know where to start with this.

I heard an ad on the radio for a LuLaRoe Holiday Extravaganza.  Apparently 48 LuLaRoe distributors are getting together to have a big sale for the holidays.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 17, 2017, 09:59:35 PM
I heard a statistic that only a small percent of people who work commission-only sales jobs, earn enough to make a living. Can't remember the percent but it was five percent, maybe? My impression is that the company who employs them doesn't really care if they earn a living or not. If they sell even one product, the company makes money. They will also make exaggerated claims about the earning potential of the job.

There's been an increase in door-to-door salespeople since the Do Not Call registry went into effect, making telemarketing more difficult.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Joel on November 17, 2017, 11:21:22 PM
I got suckered into one of these many many years ago.  I was young and dumb but don't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson! Anyway, I was following Dave Ramsey at the time and desperately trying to get my debts paid off, I was making decent money but wanted to make as much as I could to ramp things up faster.  I was told it was a very different type of company.  I don't remember the name of it anymore (maybe someone else on here will recognize it).  Anyway, it's a company where you sign people up for services that they are already using, but when they sign up through you then you get a small percentage each time they pay their monthly bill.  Services like cell phones, cable tv, internet, even some electricity.  It was 100% an MLM as you also had to sign people up to start working under you  and also get people to sign up, and so on.  My friend that got me involved told me it was how he was able to take a year off of work and spend time with his daughter instead.  He gave a good talk so I got involved.

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends.  I would offer it to them if they wanted but I would not pressure anyone.  I told them they had to show me different ways to gain customers or I would not be involved.  They promised it would be easy to find customers because most people have cell phones, electricity, cable, satellite tv, etc...

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them.  When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required.  He drove me nuts for weeks, I started completely ignoring his messages and when I would listen to his voicemails they always sounded like he was talking to me like a little kid and I needed to do what the "grownup" told me to do. (Not really of course, but that's how it felt).

I called and cancelled my "membership" and never spoke to him again.

Awhile later the friend of mine who talked me into signing up admitted that it was all a scam and he never really made any money off of it.

ACN

When I was going to college, I worked for the forest service and my entire station (about 15 people) got hooked into this. From day one, when they asked me to join, I told them it was a damn pyramid scheme and they were all idiots for getting suckered into it. I actually did one of their taxes for several years after. He made a couple hundred dollars in total but shelled out thousands attending conferences and training. It took about four years before he finally acknowledged it was a scam.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: KodeBlue on November 19, 2017, 10:15:16 PM
By that comparison, panhandling is downright lucrative and much less stressful.
And at least panhadlers don't try to recruit others into thier scheme!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: economista on November 20, 2017, 08:39:29 AM
I'm afraid I'm being drawn into another MLM.  I'm facebook friends with a girl I went to grad school with and even though we haven't seen each other in person in the last few years, we still comment on each other's facebook stuff.  She messaged me last night and asked how I've been, and that she saw I finally moved back closer to her.  She said that we need to get coffee and catch up and I said sure, that sounds great.  Then I got a spidey-sense that this interaction seemed suspiciously like an MLM.  I went to her page and saw for the past few days she has been posting her normal craft pictures (she makes all kinds of quilted things and baby clothes to sell on her etsy page) but they all have these doterra essential oils in the pictures as well.  Yup, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a sales pitch instead of catching up.  I went to her blog and there is a tab at the top now for "essential oils" and it is definitely an MLM.  Ugh.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Chesleygirl on November 20, 2017, 09:26:01 AM
Just cancel the coffee date, then. It's obvious what's coming.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: LifeHappens on November 20, 2017, 11:23:09 AM
Just cancel the coffee date, then. It's obvious what's coming.
Or tell her you'd be happy to have coffee, but have no interest in essential oils. That might lead her to cancel, but then you'll know.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: robartsd on November 20, 2017, 12:05:04 PM
Yup, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a sales pitch instead of catching up.
I'd give the friend the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure she'll bring up her essential oils; but if you're polite but firm that you're not interested, she might be smart enough just spend a little time catching up and keep a friendship. If not, you'll know that she only sees you as a potential client/downline.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Tass on November 20, 2017, 01:23:41 PM
My roommate was telling me yesterday that he had a friend being suckered into an MLM, but one that seemed "less bad" than most. I gave him a deeply skeptical look, but he insisted most people don't actually lose money even though most people don't make much either.

The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Travis on November 20, 2017, 01:42:11 PM
My roommate was telling me yesterday that he had a friend being suckered into an MLM, but one that seemed "less bad" than most. I gave him a deeply skeptical look, but he insisted most people don't actually lose money even though most people don't make much either.

The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?

Confirm that's it's an MLM? You betcha. It's mentioned in this thread a couple times.  One of my friends just joined them, but considering she has a massive Etsy side-hustle already going I expect she'll be one of the few who can actually make some money at it (not nearly enough to live off of though). 
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Meowmalade on November 20, 2017, 01:52:19 PM
The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?

I have a friend (who's trying to make a full-time living off it, and might actually do well) who got into Rodan & Fields.  It's definitely an MLM.  As far as I can tell, it's expensive but the products actually work-- maybe that's why it's "not as bad as others"?  I unfollowed her, though!
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Beard N Bones on November 20, 2017, 02:01:54 PM
The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?

I have a friend (who's trying to make a full-time living off it, and might actually do well) who got into Rodan & Fields.  It's definitely an MLM.  As far as I can tell, it's expensive but the products actually work-- maybe that's why it's "not as bad as others"?  I unfollowed her, though!

I guarantee that your friend will not do well with it.  Guarantee.  They may put on the facade that they are doing well, but the math doesn't lie.
Google "John Taylor MLM pdf" and he has some amazing articles that delve into MLM's - which includes the probability of people making money from these schemes.
It is a far greater possibility that a person is: 1. lying about how well they are doing with MLM's or 2. a shill that is pushing the MLM's products.
Title: Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
Post by: Tass on November 20, 2017, 02:50:55 PM
It's definitely an MLM.  As far as I can tell, it's expensive but the products actually work-- maybe that's why it's "not as bad as others"?  I unfollowed her, though!

Oh yeah, I know it's definitely an MLM. The think about MLMs is, they don't have to be garbage products. But even if R+F DOES work, it'