Author Topic: No, I won't buy into your MLM  (Read 122681 times)

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #650 on: November 13, 2017, 09:34:44 PM »


So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month!  Ouch.

By that comparison, panhandling is downright lucrative and much less stressful.
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StockBeard

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #651 on: November 14, 2017, 01:52:01 AM »


So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month!  Ouch.

By that comparison, panhandling is downright lucrative and much less stressful.
And in general, in those "compensation plan" disclosures, this is the amount received *before* substracting expenses. The typical seller actually loses money in these schemes, if they properly take expenses into account.

MrsDinero

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #652 on: November 14, 2017, 07:21:25 AM »
Tis the season!  So far I have been invited to a Pampered Chef Party at a friend's house and for an online Young Living EO party.

I also saw some flyers for local craft fairs and they listed the types of vendors.  At first I was excited about the craft fairs because I crochet and knit and am considering doing a craft fair next year, then I saw that out of 50 vendors so far signed up about 30 of them were MLM companies!  How are those even in the same category as crafts?
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Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #653 on: November 14, 2017, 08:48:37 AM »
Want wants to work that hard for $1500 a year? Who wants to strain their social relations that hard for $1500?

Most regular folks could probably find multiples of that in savings if they applied MMM tactics to their family spending.

robartsd

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #654 on: November 14, 2017, 08:55:49 AM »
Did she keep them in her office? How do you sneak those bulky things into a house?
Probably had an office baby shower and brought home the bulk of the purchases along with the gifts from the shower.

dreadmoose

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #655 on: November 14, 2017, 10:12:08 AM »
Their compensation plan (for the US anyway)

http://monatglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Compensation-Plan_US_052017.pdf

I found this for Canada...

http://www.average2awesome.com/uploads/1/6/0/6/16063634/canadian-compensation-plan.pdf

This is on the last page (bolding is mine, for emphasis):

"The primary source of income of a typical participant in the Compensation Plan (the “Plan” or the “Canadian Plan”) of MONAT Global Canada ULC. (“MONAT”) is from compensation on personal and downline sales of products and/or services. Personal earnings will vary. A Typical Participant in the Plan is defined as a participant who actively engages in the activities necessary to realize the benefits of the Plan (i.e. has achieved at least the rank of Managing Market Partner).
A Typical Participant in the Plan earns between Cdn $22 and $1,188 annualized.
       
Please note that these earnings are estimates and have been derived from the earnings experience of MONAT’s U.S. parent company, which operates similar and comparable compensation plans, selling comparable products in the United States and worldwide. These earnings estimates will be reviewed after 6 months of operation of the Canadian Plan. After one year, this Statement of Typical Participant Earnings will be updated with compensation actually received by typical participants in the Canadian Plan, and then updated annually thereafter."

So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month!  Ouch.

Thank you! I totally missed that last line... and I find it quite hilarious that the Canadian document says they will update within 6 months and then they completely remove that line from their later statements. Those 6 months must have showed that it was even worse than 1.83 to 99 per month.

I wish there was more of a push for regulation on these companies, they are literally ruining peoples lives while focusing on the most vulnerable population to these scams. Failed pyramid scheme legislation.. just having a product doesn't make it not predacious.
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mydogismyheart

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #656 on: November 14, 2017, 02:13:59 PM »
I got suckered into one of these many many years ago.  I was young and dumb but don't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson! Anyway, I was following Dave Ramsey at the time and desperately trying to get my debts paid off, I was making decent money but wanted to make as much as I could to ramp things up faster.  I was told it was a very different type of company.  I don't remember the name of it anymore (maybe someone else on here will recognize it).  Anyway, it's a company where you sign people up for services that they are already using, but when they sign up through you then you get a small percentage each time they pay their monthly bill.  Services like cell phones, cable tv, internet, even some electricity.  It was 100% an MLM as you also had to sign people up to start working under you  and also get people to sign up, and so on.  My friend that got me involved told me it was how he was able to take a year off of work and spend time with his daughter instead.  He gave a good talk so I got involved.

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends.  I would offer it to them if they wanted but I would not pressure anyone.  I told them they had to show me different ways to gain customers or I would not be involved.  They promised it would be easy to find customers because most people have cell phones, electricity, cable, satellite tv, etc...

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them.  When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required.  He drove me nuts for weeks, I started completely ignoring his messages and when I would listen to his voicemails they always sounded like he was talking to me like a little kid and I needed to do what the "grownup" told me to do. (Not really of course, but that's how it felt).

I called and cancelled my "membership" and never spoke to him again.

Awhile later the friend of mine who talked me into signing up admitted that it was all a scam and he never really made any money off of it.

Beard N Bones

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #657 on: November 14, 2017, 02:46:11 PM »

Thank you! I totally missed that last line... and I find it quite hilarious that the Canadian document says they will update within 6 months and then they completely remove that line from their later statements. Those 6 months must have showed that it was even worse than 1.83 to 99 per month.

I wish there was more of a push for regulation on these companies, they are literally ruining peoples lives while focusing on the most vulnerable population to these scams. Failed pyramid scheme legislation.. just having a product doesn't make it not predacious.

If you are looking for the ultimate article in MLM's in general, John Taylor has produced a great article called "Multi-Level Marketing Unmasked: A Complete and Compelling Case against MLM as an Unfair and Deceptive Practice"  This a 476 page read.  Its a convincing, logical, worthwhile read.  I do believe there is a 40 page condensed version of this.  I'll attach the condensed version for your convenience (but the last time I did this, it only posted on this forum for a short while.  The full version is worth reading.)

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #658 on: November 14, 2017, 03:06:12 PM »
I got suckered into one of these many many years ago.  I was young and dumb but don't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson! Anyway, I was following Dave Ramsey at the time and desperately trying to get my debts paid off, I was making decent money but wanted to make as much as I could to ramp things up faster.  I was told it was a very different type of company.  I don't remember the name of it anymore (maybe someone else on here will recognize it).  Anyway, it's a company where you sign people up for services that they are already using, but when they sign up through you then you get a small percentage each time they pay their monthly bill.  Services like cell phones, cable tv, internet, even some electricity.  It was 100% an MLM as you also had to sign people up to start working under you  and also get people to sign up, and so on.  My friend that got me involved told me it was how he was able to take a year off of work and spend time with his daughter instead.  He gave a good talk so I got involved.

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends.  I would offer it to them if they wanted but I would not pressure anyone.  I told them they had to show me different ways to gain customers or I would not be involved.  They promised it would be easy to find customers because most people have cell phones, electricity, cable, satellite tv, etc...

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them.  When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required.  He drove me nuts for weeks, I started completely ignoring his messages and when I would listen to his voicemails they always sounded like he was talking to me like a little kid and I needed to do what the "grownup" told me to do. (Not really of course, but that's how it felt).

I called and cancelled my "membership" and never spoke to him again.

Awhile later the friend of mine who talked me into signing up admitted that it was all a scam and he never really made any money off of it.

They're still around in some form.  I don't remember the name, but I remember being hit up for this kind of service within the last year or two (State Fair? Somebody had a booth or a table).  Now it's going to bug me until I figure it out.
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Goldielocks

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #659 on: November 14, 2017, 03:24:44 PM »

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends. 

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them. 

This is the challenge -- many sales "jobs" require you to provide a contact list that you start calling to generate sales, starting with friends and family.   This includes the commissioned vacuum cleaner sales (filter queen,kirby etc), financial product sales (some of which are MLM), cutco knives, legal aid contracts, and the utility contracts.

Some of these sales jobs even generate some commission $'s for the people that start working for them, for a little while.. but usually far less than minimum wage.   

Oh so many of them know that you will only sell to a few family and friends, and then you are done.   You are only "hired" on commission to sell a few units to your grandmother, who wants to help you succeed, but doesn't need a knife set..

The challenge with the MLM scenario posted by mydogismyheart -- is that your UPLINE wants to use your contact list to generate commissions for himself!!  Sometimes it is under the guise of training you, but in the end the $$'s goes to your "trainer", not you because they fill out the form and sign the client up directly under the trainer's name.   YUCK.

Beard N Bones

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #660 on: November 14, 2017, 03:43:27 PM »

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends. 

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them. 

This is the challenge -- many sales "jobs" require you to provide a contact list that you start calling to generate sales, starting with friends and family.   This includes the commissioned vacuum cleaner sales (filter queen,kirby etc), financial product sales (some of which are MLM), cutco knives, legal aid contracts, and the utility contracts.

Some of these sales jobs even generate some commission $'s for the people that start working for them, for a little while.. but usually far less than minimum wage.   

Oh so many of them know that you will only sell to a few family and friends, and then you are done.   You are only "hired" on commission to sell a few units to your grandmother, who wants to help you succeed, but doesn't need a knife set..

The challenge with the MLM scenario posted by mydogismyheart -- is that your UPLINE wants to use your contact list to generate commissions for himself!!  Sometimes it is under the guise of training you, but in the end the $$'s goes to your "trainer", not you because they fill out the form and sign the client up directly under the trainer's name.   YUCK.

There is a huge misconception that the old-school door-to-door salesman gets paid the same as those that are in MLMs.  Old-school door-to-door salesman do NOT get paid the same as those that are in MLMs - as the old school salesman gets most of his income from the sales of the product and some from his ("guaranteed") hourly wage/salary.  The MLM promotor rarely makes money from sales and "makes" his/her money from recruiting and having a "downline."  As earlier mentioned, to make commission from the downline, they need to make monthly/ongoing purchases.  So ultimately, the vast majority of money they receive is from those in their downline and all/most of their profit is also going to their upline.  This by definition, is a pyramid scheme.

Goldielocks

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #661 on: November 14, 2017, 04:02:18 PM »
I was unclear.  I am not saying that commissioned sales people == MLMs, just that the poster's comment about the upline taking your contact leads for themselves is similar between some MLMs and some commissioned sales jobs.

All of the companies I named are supposed to pay minimum wages to employees as a "floor", and none of them here do, rather the "sales person" gets pushed out shortly after they hand over their personal contact lists.   At the end of the day that $99 per month  MLM income listed is pretty typical of the sales commissions received by my friends.

Proud Foot

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #662 on: November 17, 2017, 03:17:05 PM »
Wow I just don't know where to start with this.

I heard an ad on the radio for a LuLaRoe Holiday Extravaganza.  Apparently 48 LuLaRoe distributors are getting together to have a big sale for the holidays.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #663 on: November 17, 2017, 09:59:35 PM »
I heard a statistic that only a small percent of people who work commission-only sales jobs, earn enough to make a living. Can't remember the percent but it was five percent, maybe? My impression is that the company who employs them doesn't really care if they earn a living or not. If they sell even one product, the company makes money. They will also make exaggerated claims about the earning potential of the job.

There's been an increase in door-to-door salespeople since the Do Not Call registry went into effect, making telemarketing more difficult.

Joel

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #664 on: November 17, 2017, 11:21:22 PM »
I got suckered into one of these many many years ago.  I was young and dumb but don't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson! Anyway, I was following Dave Ramsey at the time and desperately trying to get my debts paid off, I was making decent money but wanted to make as much as I could to ramp things up faster.  I was told it was a very different type of company.  I don't remember the name of it anymore (maybe someone else on here will recognize it).  Anyway, it's a company where you sign people up for services that they are already using, but when they sign up through you then you get a small percentage each time they pay their monthly bill.  Services like cell phones, cable tv, internet, even some electricity.  It was 100% an MLM as you also had to sign people up to start working under you  and also get people to sign up, and so on.  My friend that got me involved told me it was how he was able to take a year off of work and spend time with his daughter instead.  He gave a good talk so I got involved.

Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends.  I would offer it to them if they wanted but I would not pressure anyone.  I told them they had to show me different ways to gain customers or I would not be involved.  They promised it would be easy to find customers because most people have cell phones, electricity, cable, satellite tv, etc...

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them.  When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required.  He drove me nuts for weeks, I started completely ignoring his messages and when I would listen to his voicemails they always sounded like he was talking to me like a little kid and I needed to do what the "grownup" told me to do. (Not really of course, but that's how it felt).

I called and cancelled my "membership" and never spoke to him again.

Awhile later the friend of mine who talked me into signing up admitted that it was all a scam and he never really made any money off of it.

ACN

When I was going to college, I worked for the forest service and my entire station (about 15 people) got hooked into this. From day one, when they asked me to join, I told them it was a damn pyramid scheme and they were all idiots for getting suckered into it. I actually did one of their taxes for several years after. He made a couple hundred dollars in total but shelled out thousands attending conferences and training. It took about four years before he finally acknowledged it was a scam.

KodeBlue

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #665 on: November 19, 2017, 10:15:16 PM »
By that comparison, panhandling is downright lucrative and much less stressful.
And at least panhadlers don't try to recruit others into thier scheme!

economista

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #666 on: November 20, 2017, 08:39:29 AM »
I'm afraid I'm being drawn into another MLM.  I'm facebook friends with a girl I went to grad school with and even though we haven't seen each other in person in the last few years, we still comment on each other's facebook stuff.  She messaged me last night and asked how I've been, and that she saw I finally moved back closer to her.  She said that we need to get coffee and catch up and I said sure, that sounds great.  Then I got a spidey-sense that this interaction seemed suspiciously like an MLM.  I went to her page and saw for the past few days she has been posting her normal craft pictures (she makes all kinds of quilted things and baby clothes to sell on her etsy page) but they all have these doterra essential oils in the pictures as well.  Yup, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a sales pitch instead of catching up.  I went to her blog and there is a tab at the top now for "essential oils" and it is definitely an MLM.  Ugh.
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Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #667 on: November 20, 2017, 09:26:01 AM »
Just cancel the coffee date, then. It's obvious what's coming.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #668 on: November 20, 2017, 11:23:09 AM »
Just cancel the coffee date, then. It's obvious what's coming.
Or tell her you'd be happy to have coffee, but have no interest in essential oils. That might lead her to cancel, but then you'll know.

robartsd

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #669 on: November 20, 2017, 12:05:04 PM »
Yup, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a sales pitch instead of catching up.
I'd give the friend the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure she'll bring up her essential oils; but if you're polite but firm that you're not interested, she might be smart enough just spend a little time catching up and keep a friendship. If not, you'll know that she only sees you as a potential client/downline.

Tass

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #670 on: November 20, 2017, 01:23:41 PM »
My roommate was telling me yesterday that he had a friend being suckered into an MLM, but one that seemed "less bad" than most. I gave him a deeply skeptical look, but he insisted most people don't actually lose money even though most people don't make much either.

The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #671 on: November 20, 2017, 01:42:11 PM »
My roommate was telling me yesterday that he had a friend being suckered into an MLM, but one that seemed "less bad" than most. I gave him a deeply skeptical look, but he insisted most people don't actually lose money even though most people don't make much either.

The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?

Confirm that's it's an MLM? You betcha. It's mentioned in this thread a couple times.  One of my friends just joined them, but considering she has a massive Etsy side-hustle already going I expect she'll be one of the few who can actually make some money at it (not nearly enough to live off of though). 
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Meowmalade

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #672 on: November 20, 2017, 01:52:19 PM »
The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?

I have a friend (who's trying to make a full-time living off it, and might actually do well) who got into Rodan & Fields.  It's definitely an MLM.  As far as I can tell, it's expensive but the products actually work-- maybe that's why it's "not as bad as others"?  I unfollowed her, though!
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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #673 on: November 20, 2017, 02:01:54 PM »
The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?

I have a friend (who's trying to make a full-time living off it, and might actually do well) who got into Rodan & Fields.  It's definitely an MLM.  As far as I can tell, it's expensive but the products actually work-- maybe that's why it's "not as bad as others"?  I unfollowed her, though!

I guarantee that your friend will not do well with it.  Guarantee.  They may put on the facade that they are doing well, but the math doesn't lie.
Google "John Taylor MLM pdf" and he has some amazing articles that delve into MLM's - which includes the probability of people making money from these schemes.
It is a far greater possibility that a person is: 1. lying about how well they are doing with MLM's or 2. a shill that is pushing the MLM's products.

Tass

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #674 on: November 20, 2017, 02:50:55 PM »
It's definitely an MLM.  As far as I can tell, it's expensive but the products actually work-- maybe that's why it's "not as bad as others"?  I unfollowed her, though!

Oh yeah, I know it's definitely an MLM. The think about MLMs is, they don't have to be garbage products. But even if R+F DOES work, it's still incredibly overpriced and it still makes its money from the "distributors" who purchase the products, not from the people they sell to to make their money back.

farfromfire

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #675 on: November 29, 2017, 02:12:05 PM »
Want to laugh at Younique (makeup) "CEOs"? Check out https://www.reddit.com/r/Youniqueamua/

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #676 on: November 30, 2017, 02:27:44 AM »
I've got some cousins and old friends who bought into the plexus scam.  My cousin posted about it religiously on facebook and I was so disappointed when the cousin got the old friend (long story short - my cousin married the son of long time family friends) to start posting about it on facebook all the time too.  Same old garbage posts like "I feel great and love being my own boss."  The old friend is not in a financial position to be blowing money on plexus orders (though who really is?).

MRL

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #677 on: November 30, 2017, 07:05:40 AM »

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #678 on: November 30, 2017, 07:21:35 AM »

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merula

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #680 on: November 30, 2017, 08:26:33 AM »
I can't believe I missed this thread.

I have a coworker who is very good at her job. When we worked together, she was THE top performer for 4 years straight, despite being new to the role when others had been there for decades. Our organization is pretty flat, so there aren't a lot of promotions, and the way to get one of the few that exist is to volunteer for side projects to show that you can do things outside of your core job.

Well, she got a new boss who she didn't get along with, and got sucked into Rodan and Fields at around the same time. So she decided that she would stop doing anything extra at her job, just her core responsibilities, to focus on her #girlboss #mompreneur "business".

She almost certainly would have gotten a promotion and a $10-20k raise had she not done that. She makes $70-80k as it is.

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #681 on: November 30, 2017, 09:25:00 AM »
I'll just drop this right here...

http://www.scarymommy.com/mlm-bossbabe-guide/?utm_source=FB

I never knew hashtags could be this enjoyable.
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faithless

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #682 on: November 30, 2017, 02:25:18 PM »
Loved that piece, and the LulaRose one:

http://www.scarymommy.com/thats-enough-lularoe/

Listen, I’m sure the leggings are really comfy. I’m sure angels sing beautiful hymns of praise and glory as you pull those LuLaRoes over your tired mom hips. But, seriously, if they were that amazing, wouldn’t Target carry them? Wouldn’t I be able to buy them on Amazon in the way the good Lord intended — during a Prime and Wine shop-a-thon on my couch?

Rimu05

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #683 on: December 08, 2017, 08:47:28 AM »
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.

It's because of probably the risk of being sued. Even the podcast I listen to, he didn't outright name any companies. He had to really use a round about way of saying these are scams. Even John Oliver's MLM video did not name some companies and some aspects he didn't mention. It's funny though that under his video you see people going "why didn't you say this company or that company." I want to be like, he has 20 minutes to pretty much inform you about something. Go to google and research it yourself...

I think that's my one defense for John Oliver. I don't understand criticisms about how he doesn't mention certain things. You should not be expecting a 20 minute video on the key stone pipeline to give you all the information about it. With that said I do skip almost all his political videos in terms of actual political candidates. I prefer to read about American politics on international news because a Swahili or French newspaper does not care about political affiliations. They'll just tell you what happened

iowajes

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #684 on: December 08, 2017, 08:55:09 AM »
One of my friends just started selling for a natural skin care line. I hadn't heard of this one before.

OMG- I am ready for her to be less excited about it. It is 90% of my facebook right now.

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #685 on: December 08, 2017, 09:32:00 AM »
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.

It's because of probably the risk of being sued. Even the podcast I listen to, he didn't outright name any companies. He had to really use a round about way of saying these are scams. Even John Oliver's MLM video did not name some companies and some aspects he didn't mention. It's funny though that under his video you see people going "why didn't you say this company or that company." I want to be like, he has 20 minutes to pretty much inform you about something. Go to google and research it yourself...

I think that's my one defense for John Oliver. I don't understand criticisms about how he doesn't mention certain things. You should not be expecting a 20 minute video on the key stone pipeline to give you all the information about it. With that said I do skip almost all his political videos in terms of actual political candidates. I prefer to read about American politics on international news because a Swahili or French newspaper does not care about political affiliations. They'll just tell you what happened

Your whole post was spot on, especially about getting the news about the USA from foreign sources. of course some source vetting is important. I gave Russia Today a try once upon a time.

Beard N Bones

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #686 on: December 13, 2017, 09:51:38 AM »
I've been seeing the following "Sponsored" ads on Facebook more often days.  I HATE them with a passion - for many reasons. #itsapyramidscheme  Last night I decided to (waste my time and) further inform myself about what they are all about.
Quote

DO YOU HAVE A 9-5 JOB THAT YOU HATE?......
www.realnameofscammers.com
DO YOU NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO SPEND WITH YOUR FAMILY?.......

ARE YOU STRUGGLING AND NOT MAKING ENOUGH MONEY TO GET AHEAD IN LIFE?.....

If you've said "yes" to any of these then hear me out and I'll point you in the right direction to CHANGE YOUR LIFE. I'll let you know how an uneducated guy with a troubled past has an online business.

I said "yes" to all of those things a few months ago and took the step to changing my life and living the life that I want. First let me tell you about myself.

I grew up with not the best childhood. I was in and out of foster homes growing up, don't have any family support, got into some trouble, and never completed high school. I felt like my life wasn't going anywhere and wasn't going to accomplish much in life.
www.realnameofscammers.com
I've had many health issues. I'm 33 years old and already had heart surgery, have asthma, and have chronic back pain that I have to see a doctor regularly for. This is not the life I want to live being on medication all the time.

I've struggled with paying my bills and constantly in my overdraft. I ended up getting 2 roommates to help out and even with that I was still just getting by, but didn't have any extra funds to enjoy life. My wife and I recently found out we are expecting our first child in March 2017 and this is when I knew I needed to make a change, but how? How is a guy with a troubled past, no education, health issues, and no money able to get ahead in life. Well I'll tell you, my friend.

I came across an ad on Facebook, like you are now. An ad that has now changed my life. It opened my eyes and made me realize I can have a better future for myself and my family. I can quit my construction job and busting my back in a ditch underground, to working from the comfort of my own home. One of the most amazing part is that I finally have support. This team that I have joined is amazing. So much support, positivity, and they want you to succeed.

If you are ready to quit making money for the big guy and being a slave to the old J-O-B and start making your own money then message me or comment and I'll be glad to point you in the right direction. I'm glad I did and so many others are as well. You can also click on the link below to check out the free online workshop. Don't miss out on this great opportunity. What do you have to lose?

www.realnameofscammers.com

Thanks for your time and have a fantastic day!!

I commented that I wanted more info on what this was all about (I was one of 5,475 comments).  He gave me a link to a video.  The 90 min video told me two things: 1. there is money to be made in the internet.  2. people have been quitting their jobs make money doing this "laptop business". 

And all you have to do is pay a one time $99USD membership fee and they will tell you more.  Giving only a bit of info at a time he called "micro-commitments."  I say, "You can F-off and be cursed for trying to scam people in taking their hard earned cash."

What did I learn from all of this?  I hate more than ever, pyramid schemes, MLM's, Network Marketing Companies, or whatever type of name you want to call it!  The business model is predatory.  I hate seeing good people get suckered into such schemes because they fail to use their mind when an "Opportunity" comes their way. 

Thanks for listening, rant over.

Smokystache

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #687 on: December 13, 2017, 10:11:36 AM »

And all you have to do is pay a one time $99USD membership fee and they will tell you more. 

Sounds like the new version of the old bulletin board flyers that promised "Make Lots of Money Stuffing Envelopes" -if you just send $$ to an address. And then you get a letter that instructs you to put up your own flyers that say, 'Make Lots of Money Stuffing Envelopes' and then send them these instructions.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #688 on: December 13, 2017, 12:24:17 PM »

And all you have to do is pay a one time $99USD membership fee and they will tell you more. 

Sounds like the new version of the old bulletin board flyers that promised "Make Lots of Money Stuffing Envelopes" -if you just send $$ to an address. And then you get a letter that instructs you to put up your own flyers that say, 'Make Lots of Money Stuffing Envelopes' and then send them these instructions.

I knew someone who fell for that. It attracts people who literally have no skills whatsoever. :(

There are machines that fold letters and insert them envelopes. I've worked with these machines and that's what companies that do mass mailings use.

ohsnap

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #689 on: December 13, 2017, 12:42:55 PM »
...

Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them.  When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required. ....

Even worse is when a friend gives out your name & number to someone in an MLM!  I assume they do it for a discount. :(  A couple of months ago I got a voice mail from a Cutco salesman saying he'd gotten my # from my friend "Susie" and could I please call him back, he's not trying to sell anything, he just needs to talk to as many people as possible to help him get started in the business.  Ugh. I sent him a text along the lines of "Good luck with your new business.  I'm not interested in hearing about it, so please take me off your list" and didn't hear from him again.

Pizzabrewer

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #690 on: December 24, 2017, 03:42:44 AM »
A new (and ridiculous) one I just heard about is people opening dead oysters on Facebook Live. Said oysters have worthless pearls inside them and people pay good money for them.

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #691 on: December 24, 2017, 06:10:57 AM »
A new (and ridiculous) one I just heard about is people opening dead oysters on Facebook Live. Said oysters have worthless pearls inside them and people pay good money for them.

I remember people selling the pearl thing at stuff like state fair at least 20 years ago, but it sounds like facebook has made it all go crazy!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/leticiamiranda/pearl-parties-are-taking-over-facebook-live-but-buyer-beware?utm_term=.dgVvmM184#.eo4ne2Pky  (some annoying gifs in this one)

I just love it every time this thread pops up!

sparkytheop

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sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #693 on: January 09, 2018, 07:57:47 AM »

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #694 on: January 09, 2018, 09:04:11 AM »
Saw this today: https://imgur.com/gallery/5rRzv

She handled that better than a lot of other folks would.  The fact that her upline is telling her to ignore her family and she's just spamming her ads in the conversation rather than actually communicating is why folks accuse MLMs of being cults.
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havregryn

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #695 on: January 09, 2018, 02:45:16 PM »
A few months ago I joined a Facebook group someone made for moms in our area. We live in a nice expensive suburb of about 8000 people in total. Not long after joining I got a friend request from a woman in the area. Immediately I could see she was an MLM seller but I accepted just to see. She has not yet made any kind of an attempt to talk to me directly about any of this (I think she may have googled me and realized I had a grown up job that would make it unlikely I would be interested) but now I have the privilege of seeing her in my newsfeed all the time and it is really a fascinating case study into how some of these MLMs work.
I am still not sure if she is some kind of a super deluded victim of some of the people she is constantly thanking as her mentors or is actually a bit higher up in this food chain as she does seem to have a lot of women who worship her.
But either way, I am rather fascinated by how supermanipulative this whole narrative seems to be. She is constantly posting motivational and inspirational bullshit, but I noticed how the common theme for it all is to make sure not to listen to the negative people. It's like they are obviously working really hard to make sure that they can a priori discredit any voice of reason a potential recruit could have in her life.

She also refers to the company she is selling for (Nuskin) as "company I am partnered with" which is something I haven't heard before but I guess is meant to make it sound like more of a legit business she was running completely independently of the people who are running the Nuskin business before they partnered up lol.

I don't know if this is sad or funny.

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #696 on: January 09, 2018, 04:06:26 PM »
She also refers to the company she is selling for (Nuskin) as "company I am partnered with" which is something I haven't heard before but I guess is meant to make it sound like more of a legit business she was running completely independently of the people who are running the Nuskin business before they partnered up lol.

I don't know if this is sad or funny.

Sad in a "we all know they're getting screwed and can't reason with them.  Funny in a "wow people can really be this deluded?" 

"Partner" is a euphemism for publicly recognizing their business doesn't really exist and they're just a customer of the parent company themselves.
My Journal: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/will-i-or-won't-i-a-home-run-or-a-base-hit/

Unlike some other tech companies or skilled-labor industries, we're always hiring.

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merula

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #697 on: January 09, 2018, 04:37:44 PM »
I am still not sure if she is some kind of a super deluded victim of some of the people she is constantly thanking as her mentors or is actually a bit higher up in this food chain as she does seem to have a lot of women who worship her.

I'm not sure having a lot of women in your comments is any designation on how food chain position. Someone I know had 100+ likes/comments to virtually every MLM social media post within a week or two of signing up. I think part of the "job" is committing to boosting everyone else's social media counts.

faithless

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #698 on: January 10, 2018, 12:32:43 AM »
"Partner" is a euphemism for publicly recognizing their business doesn't really exist and they're just a customer of the parent company themselves.

I thought 'partner' was their way of trying to reconcile their self employed, own business, #bossbabe posts with 'I'm a non-minimum-wage-guaranteed sales rep for X company's tat'

havregryn

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #699 on: January 10, 2018, 06:11:22 AM »
I got the impression she recruited quite a few people in her downline. This is a very affluent area so I am guessing it's fairly easy for new recruits to sell a lot of stuff to their friends and families in the first few weeks of their amazing new business.  She is now posting all about qualifying for some kind of an all-expenses paid trip so it's either all fake (I guess that's likely) or she has drawn in enough of unsuspecting fellow moms to actually be "valuable" to the "partner" company.
I am somehow genuinely curious to know more about these people and the way this all works (I have a degree in psychology) but sadly I don't really have the time to attend one of her parties just for "research" purposes.
I somehow feel sorry for a lot of these women. I can totally get the appeal, I was working in bed yesterday while my son was building lego next to me.  It is so infinitely superior to having to spend most of your day in an office but I have a real job with benefits, not an illusion of one.
That is, I feel sorry for those who get sucked into this with naive dreams, I don't feel so sorry for those who consciously fake it in order to build a downline, hence my desire to study this further in order to really get an idea of this woman. Not that it matters beyond the fact my kids go to public school and this is a small place so there is always some interaction.