Author Topic: No, I won't buy into your MLM  (Read 181397 times)

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #550 on: October 20, 2017, 01:05:24 PM »
As a male of more than middle-aged years I have been largely insulated from the MLM pitches.  Lately a facebook friend has been trying very hard to interest me in Arbonne.  No idea what it is, I really have no interest.

I'm thinking about unfriending her.

Arbonne is expensive skin care products, as far as I know. Their "anti aging set" of skin products retails for around $400. Perhaps they think older people are a good market for these products. I really don't know!

They don't care how old or young someone is, they'll pitch to them anyway or try to recruit them. Lots of people even recruit their own parents and grandparents.

MgoSam

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #551 on: October 20, 2017, 01:29:05 PM »
I didn't know that Arbonne was a MLM. A few years back I asked a friend what whey protein he used and he said Arbonne. I looked it up and saw that it was over $60 for 2 pounds and passed. For that price they better eliminate any possibility of getting DOMS

KodeBlue

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #552 on: October 25, 2017, 06:50:48 PM »
HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...
Sad thing is, if they did need a business license, MLM hucksters would just use that help rope in recruits and make them feel more "official". "And here are the forms you need for your business license...you'll need one since you're starting your own business.."
Followed by the victim who just got taken for a couple of grand recruit posting on facebook " I just got my business license! I'm an entrepreneur  running my own business now!" #CEObusinessowner :)

draco44

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #553 on: October 25, 2017, 08:20:32 PM »
I know some previous commenters have brought up the Lularoe returns policy change fiasco, but in case you missed it, that controversy has now led to a class action lawsuit: http://www.businessinsider.com/lularoe-called-pyramid-scheme-by-sellers-2017-10  The suit was filed on October 13, but I didn't see a mention of it in this thread yet.

carolinap

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #554 on: October 26, 2017, 05:32:24 AM »
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, and instead buying in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.

I'm still confused, never heard of it before.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 05:45:30 AM by carolinap »

carolinap

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #555 on: October 26, 2017, 05:44:46 AM »
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.

I'm still confused, never heard of it before.

They claim they are better than other companies because you don't have to "sell" anything, just consume what you already consume... but you have recruitment quotas to receive your profits.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 05:47:50 AM by carolinap »

jinga nation

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #556 on: October 26, 2017, 06:08:22 AM »
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.

I'm still confused, never heard of it before.

They claim they are better than other companies because you don't have to "sell" anything, just consume what you already consume... but you have recruitment quotas to receive your profits.
I see that the Amway/Quixtar model is truly well and alive.
i was asked in 1999 to join and buy bulk TP. How much does a single college kid need when you do all your #2 on campus?

Hunny156

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #557 on: October 26, 2017, 09:42:57 AM »
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.

I'm still confused, never heard of it before.

They claim they are better than other companies because you don't have to "sell" anything, just consume what you already consume... but you have recruitment quotas to receive your profits.
I see that the Amway/Quixtar model is truly well and alive.
i was asked in 1999 to join and buy bulk TP. How much does a single college kid need when you do all your #2 on campus?

Yes, I'm currently reading Merchants of Deception, and this is EXACTLY the Amway model.

SwordGuy

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #558 on: October 27, 2017, 06:40:06 AM »
[Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

They pretty much can. It's called "ILL" for Inter-Library Loan.

You tell the ILL librarian what book you want, they put in a request and some time later (a week or months) it shows up and they loan it to you.  Takes time, but they can do it.

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #559 on: October 27, 2017, 07:32:53 AM »
[Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

They pretty much can. It's called "ILL" for Inter-Library Loan.

You tell the ILL librarian what book you want, they put in a request and some time later (a week or months) it shows up and they loan it to you.  Takes time, but they can do it.

My library charges $3 per ILL request (whether they can fulfill it or not).  Another city I lived in charged $11 per ILL fulfilled.

snowball

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #560 on: October 27, 2017, 09:35:52 AM »
It costs libraries something like $10-15 to fill a single ILL request, counting staff time on both ends plus return shipping costs.  (I refer to true ILL requests here, not requests that are filled by other libraries within the same system, which benefit much more from economies of scale.)

It's a great service, and people should absolutely feel free to use it when the local collection doesn't fill their needs.  I wouldn't personally mind paying a $3 fee, given that it's not even close to covering the cost of the service, but I'd be a bit concerned about it for other reasons.  If a public library feels it has to charge for this service, that's a sign it's not funded very well in general, so I might lobby my municipality for better library funding in my community.  How supportive councillors are of the library can *really* vary, and is definitely affected by what they hear from voters.

[ETA: well-run / well-funded libraries do keep the cost of ILL in mind when looking at a request, and if it's for a book that's currently in print, they may just buy a copy, especially if it looks like an item others might be interested in too.  ILL requests from patrons are treated a bit like purchase suggestions, in terms of collection development.]
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 09:49:23 AM by snowball »

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #561 on: October 27, 2017, 09:44:45 AM »
If a public library feels it has to charge for this service, that's a sign it's not funded very well in general, so I might lobby my municipality for better library funding in my community.  How supportive councillors are of the library can *really* vary, and is definitely affected by what they hear from voters.

We have an amazing library (especially for kids books and adult best sellers), with great programming- but there is a limit to how much it can do with a population under 20,000.

The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though.  That's pretty cool.

snowball

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #562 on: October 27, 2017, 09:52:49 AM »
If a public library feels it has to charge for this service, that's a sign it's not funded very well in general, so I might lobby my municipality for better library funding in my community.  How supportive councillors are of the library can *really* vary, and is definitely affected by what they hear from voters.

We have an amazing library (especially for kids books and adult best sellers), with great programming- but there is a limit to how much it can do with a population under 20,000.

The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though.  That's pretty cool.

I should probably have been a little more nuanced there;  I'd take it in context with the rest of what I see from that library, of course.  :)

The cake pan collection does sound cool!

greengardens

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #563 on: October 28, 2017, 03:58:54 PM »
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv. and had I received the video she sent me a month ago over text message? and how she thought I would be a wonderful person to take advantage of these "experiences" and could she send me more links to other videos to give me more information. I've watched a few minutes of the video and for the life of me cannot figure out what the purpose of this company is. Is it an MLM or a new iteration of timeshares? I feel like I can do a lot of this stuff with my credit card points.

Guess I'm blocking her phone number going forward, which sucks because I liked this lady and it's a small town :(

http://meetliv.com/

kpd905

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #564 on: October 28, 2017, 07:33:04 PM »
The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though.  That's pretty cool.

I wonder if they ever get close to loaning those all out.

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #565 on: October 28, 2017, 07:56:58 PM »
The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though.  That's pretty cool.

I wonder if they ever get close to loaning those all out.
Not all at once, but I know they curate the collection and get rid of the unpopular ones and pull in more popular designs.

Nearly everyone I know had checked out a pan for a birthday party or shower.

Villanelle

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #566 on: October 29, 2017, 03:38:52 AM »
Also keep in mind that you may be eligible to join various library systems, sometimes for a fee, and that can expand your access considerably. 

It may be worth the occasional longer drive to get a book you want and not pay a $x ILL fee, and to get it more quickly.

economista

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #567 on: October 30, 2017, 09:01:48 AM »
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv. and had I received the video she sent me a month ago over text message? and how she thought I would be a wonderful person to take advantage of these "experiences" and could she send me more links to other videos to give me more information. I've watched a few minutes of the video and for the life of me cannot figure out what the purpose of this company is. Is it an MLM or a new iteration of timeshares? I feel like I can do a lot of this stuff with my credit card points.

Guess I'm blocking her phone number going forward, which sucks because I liked this lady and it's a small town :(

http://meetliv.com/

I was curious so I took a look at the website.  This is definitely an MLM that is masquerading as a type of vacation/event savings account.  You sign up and pay an initiation fee along with a monthly membership fee, and part of the monthly fee accumulates so you can spend it in the future on vacation packages or event tickets.  Like Audible but way more expensive and your whole monthly fee doesn't accumulate!  They are saying "pay us $50 per month and you will get $25 per month in credits"...why would anyone do that?!

Then there is the MLM side.  If you become a "promoter" you get a portion of whatever the people under you contribute (which is why when you sign up you don't get to keep your whole monthly fee - a portion goes to the uplines).  It also has incentives that are really MLM heavy: be an entrepreneur, work for yourself, get paid 5x per month, get to a high enough level and get a $750 per month car allowance, etc.  If you don't become a promoter buy you convince 3 others to sign up at the same level as you, you get a month free.  I'm assuming your friend is either a promoter or was trying to get a free month.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #568 on: October 30, 2017, 01:07:50 PM »
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv.
http://meetliv.com/

I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.

I wonder about people who get involved in MLMs. 

Neither one of my parents had a college education, but they knew better than to get involved in scams. But I see people with business degrees getting hooked into them and I have to wonder about that. You'd think someone with the advantage of more education would know better.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 01:16:39 PM by Chesleygirl »

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #569 on: October 30, 2017, 01:21:15 PM »
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv.
http://meetliv.com/

I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.

I wonder about people who get involved in MLMs. 

Neither one of my parents had a college education, but they knew better than to get involved in scams. But I see people with business degrees getting hooked into them and I have to wonder about that. You'd think someone with the advantage of more education would know better.

That all depends on what you're supposed to learn in a Business Degree program. How to run a business and how not to get snookered by too-good-to-be-true with a dash of emotional manipulation are not the same thing.

greengardens

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #570 on: October 31, 2017, 08:23:05 AM »

I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.


Yep it was. Completely unauthentic. I dot. Know what upsets me more, the fact that she thought I’d be interested in this scam or the fact that she used our prior working relationship to get me to call her back (by leaving a message asking me to call because it was “important”). Can’t wait for her to call me back to give me a pitch to be a promoter /s

MgoSam

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #571 on: October 31, 2017, 09:21:03 AM »

I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.


Yep it was. Completely unauthentic. I dot. Know what upsets me more, the fact that she thought I’d be interested in this scam or the fact that she used our prior working relationship to get me to call her back (by leaving a message asking me to call because it was “important”). Can’t wait for her to call me back to give me a pitch to be a promoter /s

URG! Yeah I've had acquaintances call me and leave a voicemail asking for me to "call them back" without bothering to specify precisely why. It's gotten to the point where if someone I know on Facebook or was friends with at some point years ago calls and leaves a VM without saying why they called I will generally ignore it. Far too often it's them asking for a MLM or some other venture that I have no interest in. My favorite are people that were too busy for me a year or so ago but now that they need rubes to sign up to whatever it is they are doing they are more than eager to call me and pretend to give a damn about my life.

SavingIsForSuckers

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #572 on: October 31, 2017, 09:57:41 AM »
I follow this one woman on Instagram who steals "before and after" pictures of people who lost weight/got ripped from the internet and reposts them on IG, referring to them as "satisfied clients". I think she sells health shakes or something.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #573 on: October 31, 2017, 12:49:56 PM »
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.

LifeHappens

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #574 on: October 31, 2017, 01:00:59 PM »
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #575 on: October 31, 2017, 01:13:26 PM »
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.

If true, then Dave Ramsey has a lot less credibility for me.

LifeHappens

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #576 on: October 31, 2017, 01:15:39 PM »
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish.  Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.

If true, then Dave Ramsey has a lot less credibility for me.
I can't say for sure if it's true, and I haven't listened to Dave's show in a long time. Just putting a few things I know about the culture together. Also, he openly promotes poor investment choices and whole life insurance policies, so not all of his financial advice is exactly stellar.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #577 on: October 31, 2017, 01:20:17 PM »
The Dave Ramsey course instructors we know, said they have loaded mutual funds. I didn't think that 100% wise, but decided not to comment on it when they told me.

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #578 on: October 31, 2017, 04:41:07 PM »
The Dave Ramsey course instructors we know, said they have loaded mutual funds. I didn't think that 100% wise, but decided not to comment on it when they told me.

That's a subject we've definitely beat to death on this forum. Bottom line: use Ramsey to get out of debt, but turn him off when it's time to invest.

englishteacheralex

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #579 on: October 31, 2017, 04:51:56 PM »
Dave Ramsey is my guilty pleasure.

Re: MLMs and Dave Ramsey, his take is that you should make sure that you know that you're not in the business of selling a product, but that you're in the recruitment business. I've heard him address the question several times on his podcast. I would call his tone one of guarded skepticism. He says that there is a certain type of person who can do the MLM thing really well and make good money from it. But he acknowledges that it's rare, and most people fail.

Coming out and calling out MLMs as a huge, decades old, horrible scam that manipulates valuable human relationships in the name of making a buck (a buck that rarely even materializes) is a great way to stir up an ugly, polarized conversation that doesn't get anywhere. I can't say I blame Ramsey for qualifying his remarks on the subject.

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.


penguintroopers

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #580 on: October 31, 2017, 06:48:56 PM »

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.

Same here. I've never heard him recommend anything but term life insurance.

MrsDinero

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #581 on: October 31, 2017, 07:06:43 PM »
UGH!  Lately I have been an MLM magnet!

On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches".  They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I  can be my own boss and such.  I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no.  Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.

today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with.  She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years.  I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is.  I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola.   Sorry I just needed to rant about it. 

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #582 on: November 01, 2017, 10:14:28 AM »
UGH!  Lately I have been an MLM magnet!

On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches".  They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I  can be my own boss and such.  I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no.  Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.

today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with.  She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years.  I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is.  I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola.   Sorry I just needed to rant about it.

I'd honestly block anyone who pulled that stunt on my own Facebook page.

eddiejoe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #583 on: November 01, 2017, 11:26:03 AM »

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.

Same here. I've never heard him recommend anything but term life insurance.

Third that. I haven't listened in a few years, but I doubt he has changed since my daily listening days from 2013-2015. I remember one conversation in particular where a whole life insurance salesman called trying to justify it and Dave really went off on him.

englishteacheralex

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #584 on: November 01, 2017, 12:13:15 PM »
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.

My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!

Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.

The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.

Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #585 on: November 01, 2017, 01:22:00 PM »
UGH!  Lately I have been an MLM magnet!

On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches".  They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I  can be my own boss and such.  I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no.  Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.

today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with.  She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years.  I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is.  I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola.   Sorry I just needed to rant about it.

Oh, the tag is soooo sleazy! You know it wasn't a casual thing. It's probably a technique they do on purpose so they can have a "natural convo" about EOs all over people's walls. Because without 2 people talking, it's just one and that really sounds sleazy. Except WE CAN SEE THROUGH YOU!



Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #586 on: November 02, 2017, 10:54:30 AM »
Dave Ramsey is my guilty pleasure.

Re: MLMs and Dave Ramsey, his take is that you should make sure that you know that you're not in the business of selling a product, but that you're in the recruitment business. I've heard him address the question several times on his podcast. I would call his tone one of guarded skepticism. He says that there is a certain type of person who can do the MLM thing really well and make good money from it. But he acknowledges that it's rare, and most people fail.

Coming out and calling out MLMs as a huge, decades old, horrible scam that manipulates valuable human relationships in the name of making a buck (a buck that rarely even materializes) is a great way to stir up an ugly, polarized conversation that doesn't get anywhere. I can't say I blame Ramsey for qualifying his remarks on the subject.

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.

Is there a MLM-like aspect to his Financial University and other services?

Apples

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #587 on: November 02, 2017, 11:48:58 AM »
Dave Ramsey is my guilty pleasure.

Re: MLMs and Dave Ramsey, his take is that you should make sure that you know that you're not in the business of selling a product, but that you're in the recruitment business. I've heard him address the question several times on his podcast. I would call his tone one of guarded skepticism. He says that there is a certain type of person who can do the MLM thing really well and make good money from it. But he acknowledges that it's rare, and most people fail.

Coming out and calling out MLMs as a huge, decades old, horrible scam that manipulates valuable human relationships in the name of making a buck (a buck that rarely even materializes) is a great way to stir up an ugly, polarized conversation that doesn't get anywhere. I can't say I blame Ramsey for qualifying his remarks on the subject.

I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.

Is there a MLM-like aspect to his Financial University and other services?

No.  It's basically a class that participants pay to take.  It's put on by "facilitators" or "leaders", usually in churches holding the course for anyone interested in their congregation.  The one-time fee of $99 gets you lifetime access to the course, so I don't think the people in charge pay any money to lead further courses year after year.  And Dave jokes that if you "fail" the first time, you're welcome to go back again and again until the message sinks in.  Basically, if you suck at budgeting or had relationship problems you had to work out instead of getting anywhere in the first class, you're welcome to keep going as long as you want.

The Endorsed Local Provider and SmartVester Pro services are just basically his company setting up a database of financial advisers/realtors/insurance people who they 1. "endorse" or are willing to direct people to on their website and 2. the person has agreed in some way to be a part of the greater Dave Ramsey network.  I believe they pay a fee to end up on the list, though I could be wrong and don't feel like Googling right now.  People don't like this part because usually the financial advisers have  high fees, or front loaded fees, etc.  But for Dave it solved the problem of "this person I'm talking to on the radio needs more help than I can give them in less than 5 minutes...and trusts me and wants a personal recommendation of someone to talk to" while happily adding a new income stream.

I listen to two podcasts of his a week. It's sort of a guilty pleasure, but some of his rants really annoy me.  I can only handle Dave and his baby steps in small doses, but hearing about people living below their means is a nice positive motivator and reminder.

Where I think the gossip about him has some teeth is that he never gets into the details about what happened between bankruptcy and making a decent living with his company.  Somehow he managed to pay all that debt off, grow a business "with cash only!", and build a real estate empire, before his kids were teenagers.  That's a 10, maybe 15, year turnaround.  I've heard on these forums that his parents died and he got a big inheritance, but I have no evidence of that.

Goldielocks

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #588 on: November 02, 2017, 01:27:33 PM »
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.

My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!

Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.

The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.

Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.

I saw a breakdown video of how the commissions worked for LLR yesterday..

In addition to your own 100 - 150 - 175 - 250 minimum item purchase per month (the lower level of 100 units are the numbers if you have 3 direct downlines buying their minimums), that you should be selling and making profit on, 12% of your gross sales (or 24% of the money you pay for inventory) goes to various upline commissions.      I estimate that consultant make 28% margin on their own sales, assuming discarded inventory and costs for returning inventory that does not sell.   The last 60% would go to purchase of goods and company and consultant overhead expenses.

How much does a consultant make.?

The DR caller that grosses sales over $200k per year (which means selling over 500 units per month personally) would be netting about $4600/month (at 28% margin)

--> But I doubt it, more statistically likely this  $200k/yr gross retail is across the entire 12 person downline, so would be netting only $1150 per month... as some of the sales are only at 5% and 1% upline commissions.


---------------------------------------------------
MATH rough estimates and general assumptions (worst case /conservative)
Wholesale prices are $13-$30 per unit.  Advertised retail is 2x wholesale, and suggested retail prices items are actually sold for are a bit less.  Assume that a person with an active downline still needs to buy 150 units per month x $15 each = $2250 per month plus $25 shipping = $2275 out of pocket, minimum.
They sell 50 units at advertised price, 50 units at markdown ($22), 25 are returned at 80% wholesale minus shipping costs and 25 units are given away because you opened the package, they are ugly and did not sell.  = $2885 per month.

Net is $635/month of personal sales, plus your 5% direct downline $450, plus your second level downlines at 1%:$300
So, a person with 12 people under them of which half pull in their minimums, and directly selling over 100 units per month personally, would earn: $1385/month, conservatively


Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #589 on: November 02, 2017, 05:06:24 PM »
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.

My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!

Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.

The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.

Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.

I don't believe the man's story about his wife making 200K even if she's not including her business expenses. I think the guy might even be a plant for the failing Lularoe business. That's pretty clever of Lularoe, though. Got to hand it to them.

But yes, it's common people in MLM will state they earn a certain amount, and they do - but they don't include their business expenses or how much they spent on the inventory.

KodeBlue

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #590 on: November 03, 2017, 08:35:15 AM »
Yeah, if the caller was a shill for Lularoe Dave ramsey's show would be a great platform. Just filled with SHM's looking for ways to make some extra money.

Apples

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #591 on: November 03, 2017, 09:08:34 AM »
Yeah, if the caller was a shill for Lularoe Dave ramsey's show would be a great platform. Just filled with SHM's looking for ways to make some extra money.

I was impressed when they brought on Christy Wright (might be Kristy?) to to the women business book and seminars - I assume they're all aimed at exactly this market.  I haven't checked out her materials, but it was a great next step for broadening the scope as they transition the business beyond Dave.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #592 on: November 03, 2017, 12:01:15 PM »
Thanks for the number crunching Goldielocks!  I crunched a few more numbers, using the figures that you came up with, just for fun.
If the caller grosses $200,000 in sales, and only nets $1150/mn, this person is:
1. On an average (40 hour) work week, is selling 25 pairs of leggings per day (3/hr)!
2. In selling the 25 pairs per day (3/hr), they are netting a grand total of $7.19/hr ($1150 net/mn over 160 hours worked that month (40hr x 4 weeks)).
Isn't it fun crunching the numbers?!
Financially speaking, a person is better off asking "Would you like fries with that?" Rather than, "would you like to join my downline selling these lotions, potions and/or weight loss product?"


Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.

My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!

Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.

The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.

Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.

I saw a breakdown video of how the commissions worked for LLR yesterday..

In addition to your own 100 - 150 - 175 - 250 minimum item purchase per month (the lower level of 100 units are the numbers if you have 3 direct downlines buying their minimums), that you should be selling and making profit on, 12% of your gross sales (or 24% of the money you pay for inventory) goes to various upline commissions.      I estimate that consultant make 28% margin on their own sales, assuming discarded inventory and costs for returning inventory that does not sell.   The last 60% would go to purchase of goods and company and consultant overhead expenses.

How much does a consultant make.?

The DR caller that grosses sales over $200k per year (which means selling over 500 units per month personally) would be netting about $4600/month (at 28% margin)

--> But I doubt it, more statistically likely this  $200k/yr gross retail is across the entire 12 person downline, so would be netting only $1150 per month... as some of the sales are only at 5% and 1% upline commissions.


---------------------------------------------------
MATH rough estimates and general assumptions (worst case /conservative)
Wholesale prices are $13-$30 per unit.  Advertised retail is 2x wholesale, and suggested retail prices items are actually sold for are a bit less.  Assume that a person with an active downline still needs to buy 150 units per month x $15 each = $2250 per month plus $25 shipping = $2275 out of pocket, minimum.
They sell 50 units at advertised price, 50 units at markdown ($22), 25 are returned at 80% wholesale minus shipping costs and 25 units are given away because you opened the package, they are ugly and did not sell.  = $2885 per month.

Net is $635/month of personal sales, plus your 5% direct downline $450, plus your second level downlines at 1%:$300
So, a person with 12 people under them of which half pull in their minimums, and directly selling over 100 units per month personally, would earn: $1385/month, conservatively

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #593 on: November 03, 2017, 01:15:15 PM »
Yeah, if the caller was a shill for Lularoe Dave ramsey's show would be a great platform. Just filled with SHM's looking for ways to make some extra money.

Yeah. and I'd bet anything the caller was a shill.  That has all the earmarks of being a shill.

People in MLMs lie, lie, lie about how much money they make.

It's been proven that the most successful people in Mary Kay who drive the pink car only net around 30K - 35K a year. But they say they earn a lot more than that. A friend of mine had a neighbor (man) in Mary Kay who drove the pink car and lived in a nice, big home. He recruited her and she became part of his downline. About a year later, I asked about him...she said he'd moved out of the neighborhood because his home got repossessed. And she had quit the Mary Kay business also.


Helvegen

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #594 on: November 04, 2017, 07:36:49 AM »
A long, depressing read:

https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/

Thank you for this link.  a very useful read. 

posting to follow.

I read that article in the car last night on the way home. At one point, I looked up and amusingly enough saw posted on the back of someone's SUV an ad for a MLM I hadn't heard of yet - Pure Romance.

Apple_Tango

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #595 on: November 05, 2017, 11:13:54 AM »

posting to follow.
[/quote]

I read that article in the car last night on the way home. At one point, I looked up and amusingly enough saw posted on the back of someone's SUV an ad for a MLM I hadn't heard of yet - Pure Romance.
[/quote]

I have been in the audience for a pure romance party, it's sex toys and lube and things like that. I used to dance so it was just a fun evening for us at the studio. I liked the products and would purchase again  😳 But heck no I would never buy into the MLM!!! Haha of course they pass out forms asking if you want to "host" a party. I would rather shot myself in the leg.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #596 on: November 06, 2017, 11:09:32 AM »
UGH!  Lately I have been an MLM magnet!

On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches".  They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I  can be my own boss and such.  I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no.  Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.

today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with.  She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years.  I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is.  I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola.   Sorry I just needed to rant about it.
Oh Beachbody.  Such good workouts and recipes... such a bad way to make money and prey on people.

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #597 on: November 06, 2017, 04:52:32 PM »
Oh Beachbody.  Such good workouts and recipes... such a bad way to make money and prey on people.

It seems to be a trend with MLMs: decent product, but a business model designed to grossly inflate the price and bring out the hate and mistrust in people.

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #598 on: November 06, 2017, 10:16:10 PM »
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings.  She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free.  Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings.  She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is).  She doesn't work (on disability).  I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?

I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10).  But... I kind of don't want to engage.  So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.


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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #599 on: November 07, 2017, 08:05:19 AM »
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings.  She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free.  Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings.  She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is).  She doesn't work (on disability).  I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?

I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10).  But... I kind of don't want to engage.  So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.

For that amount of money, I can get business attire to last three full years including the shoes.

Disability is weird, though. You're not allowed to save or accumulate significant amounts of money. If you scrape together enough for, say, an inexpensive $5,000 vehicle the benefits are cut.

Edited to add: this is why there's actually a financial incentive to put windfalls or savings into belongings.