Author Topic: No, I won't buy into your MLM  (Read 72484 times)

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #350 on: August 13, 2017, 06:27:45 PM »
Show me someone who doesn't mind being called a "girl" when her male peers are called "men", or who doesn't mind fake terms of endearment like "hon" or "babe" directed at her but not at others...

An Australian female magistrate called out this behaviour in court recently.

Swear in front of me, but don't call me 'darl'

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/swear-in-front-of-me-but-dont-call-me-darl-a-lesson-in-respect-20170711-gx97rr.html

jinga nation

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #351 on: August 14, 2017, 06:03:44 AM »
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."

Gullibility?

Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
I call that pre-emptive shaming of a future victim.
If I genuinely enjoy my profession and workplace, is there a reason to FIRE? Keep Calm and Carry On Milking.

BeanCounter

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #352 on: August 14, 2017, 10:33:27 AM »
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.

dude

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #353 on: August 14, 2017, 12:07:31 PM »
My secretary here at work seems to attend an inordinate number of these MLM parties, and almost always buys something "to help her friend out." She's smart enough to resist the siren's song of recruitment, but she has a tendency to rationalize her purchases by saying "it's actually a good product, and I use it all the time." I think she knows the stuff is shit, but she's got to justify the spend.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #354 on: August 14, 2017, 08:28:36 PM »
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."

Gullibility?

Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
I call that pre-emptive shaming of a future victim.

I am not trying to shame anyone. One symptom of poor financial literacy is when someone can't understand what it will cost to start up a business and run it, and don't research the business first, even though they have internet access. Twenty years ago, I can understand why so many people got hooked into MLMs. But it makes little sense nowadays, with all the information that is readily available online; this includes reviews of the businesses, informative websites like Pink truth (which exposes the Mary Kay business) and even documentaries you can watch on youtube about these businesses.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #355 on: August 14, 2017, 09:36:10 PM »
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."

Gullibility?

Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
I call that pre-emptive shaming of a future victim.

I am not trying to shame anyone. One symptom of poor financial literacy is when someone can't understand what it will cost to start up a business and run it, and don't research the business first, even though they have internet access. Twenty years ago, I can understand why so many people got hooked into MLMs. But it makes little sense nowadays, with all the information that is readily available online; this includes reviews of the businesses, informative websites like Pink truth (which exposes the Mary Kay business) and even documentaries you can watch on youtube about these businesses.

One of the reasons I think that MLMs are a tool of Satan is that they are designed to prey on uneducated desperate poor people. When companies purposefully set out to exploit the most vulnerable, that is simply evil.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #356 on: August 14, 2017, 09:49:39 PM »
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.

Engineer_Erik

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #357 on: August 14, 2017, 11:36:13 PM »
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.

And it's not a pyramid either.


iowajes

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #358 on: August 15, 2017, 07:18:20 AM »
Avon is indeed multi-level marketing.
You earn bonuses for recruiting people below you. Once you have a certain number of people in your downline you earn a commission on their orders.  MLMs are all direct sales- that is what makes them not illegal pyramid schemes; a product to sell. In theory, you can sell the product and make money. You just make more if you get other people to sell the product too.



Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 07:20:30 AM by iowajes »

RWD

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #359 on: August 15, 2017, 07:39:10 AM »
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.

I think (hope) it's a joke since it's exactly the same thing drawn upside down.

BeanCounter

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #360 on: August 15, 2017, 07:39:40 AM »
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.

And it's not a pyramid either.


I don't know where this came from, but it's bullshit. The flow of money in a MLM is most certainly from bottom to top. But that's it.
I don't even understand the pyramid on the left.

BeanCounter

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #361 on: August 15, 2017, 07:46:32 AM »
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.

I think (hope) it's a joke since it's exactly the same thing drawn upside down.
Ah ha! The sarcasm font wasn't working. Yes, funny.

robartsd

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #362 on: August 15, 2017, 08:56:04 AM »
Avon is indeed multi-level marketing.
You earn bonuses for recruiting people below you. Once you have a certain number of people in your downline you earn a commission on their orders.  MLMs are all direct sales- that is what makes them not illegal pyramid schemes; a product to sell. In theory, you can sell the product and make money. You just make more if you get other people to sell the product too.
It makes sense that you should make more if you recruit people below you. The problem with most MLMs is that there is not really any money to be made at the bottom level. Usually you have to build and maintain a couple of levels below you to get any kind of reasonable compensation.

Most MLM presentations lead with their product, but quickly shift to the business opportunity of selling the product. Often they'll talk about building residual income from sales commissions. However, when you start reading the fine print of the compensation plan, you quickly see that most of the money is distributed at the higher levels and largely comes in the form of recruitment bonuses.

In my experience consultants from AVON, Pampered Chef, and Stampin' Up focused their efforts on selling product. They seem to want sales and referrals to more customers (party bookings) much more than they want to recruit a downline. I imagine that their compensation plans are mostly direct sales commission with modest recruitment bonuses and/or downline sales commissions.

iowajes

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #363 on: August 15, 2017, 09:17:28 AM »
Avon is indeed multi-level marketing.
You earn bonuses for recruiting people below you. Once you have a certain number of people in your downline you earn a commission on their orders.  MLMs are all direct sales- that is what makes them not illegal pyramid schemes; a product to sell. In theory, you can sell the product and make money. You just make more if you get other people to sell the product too.
It makes sense that you should make more if you recruit people below you. The problem with most MLMs is that there is not really any money to be made at the bottom level. Usually you have to build and maintain a couple of levels below you to get any kind of reasonable compensation.

Most MLM presentations lead with their product, but quickly shift to the business opportunity of selling the product. Often they'll talk about building residual income from sales commissions. However, when you start reading the fine print of the compensation plan, you quickly see that most of the money is distributed at the higher levels and largely comes in the form of recruitment bonuses.

In my experience consultants from AVON, Pampered Chef, and Stampin' Up focused their efforts on selling product. They seem to want sales and referrals to more customers (party bookings) much more than they want to recruit a downline. I imagine that their compensation plans are mostly direct sales commission with modest recruitment bonuses and/or downline sales commissions.

My experience with Pampered Chef and Stampin' Up is the opposite. They want to sign people up.  They are no different from Mary Kay, Lularoe, Usborne Books, Jamberry, Younique, I could go on.  The people who make big money in PC and SU are the ones with large downlines. You don't make great money on justy your product sales. SU you get money on your downline overrides, so you WANT recruits. However, you only get a downline commission check if your own sales are at a certain level, so you need to book parties too!

(Fun Fact: I was a hobby consultant for "The Angel Company" which is a now defunct MLM for stamps. I never once sold a single thing, and never intended to. But one quarter I was star recruiter because I had 12 recruits. Didn't get a cent from it though because I had no sales. But they had no required minimums and the kit was a great value, so lots of people signed up just for themselves. Might be why they went out of business...)

My experience with AVON is mostly people giving me catalogs. So I can't comment there, but they are a MLM based on their payment structure.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 09:19:47 AM by iowajes »

Engineer_Erik

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #364 on: August 15, 2017, 09:54:41 AM »
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.

I think (hope) it's a joke since it's exactly the same thing drawn upside down.

Yes, I meant it at sarcasm.  The website I pulled it from did not. :/

KodeBlue

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #365 on: August 15, 2017, 10:17:20 AM »
But it's not a "pyramid" it's a "reverse funnel".

Smokystache

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #366 on: August 15, 2017, 10:29:35 AM »
The universe is telling me to post this:

Link to page with video : http://economicsoftheoffice.com/all/?id=21



sehr

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #367 on: August 15, 2017, 01:15:51 PM »
I have a good friend who sells Norwex and it actually really good at it and does not allow it to effect friendships. I also really like most Norwex products and feel the quality is quite high. However, the prices are way too much and the shipping on top is the last straw. So I've bought probably $100-$150 of Norwex from her over last couple of years because she has introduced me to some great cleaning tools, but I also buy competitors products for a fraction of the price off of Amazon (there is no way I'm spending over $100 on a mop).

I usually like the products of these types of companies, at least Norwex and Pampered Chef, but I resent how they take advantage of social norms in order to get people to pay way more than they ever would in a store. Now excuse me while I go and hide my ecloth mop before she has a chance to see it . . .

sw1tch

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #368 on: August 16, 2017, 07:10:56 AM »
I have a good friend who sells Norwex and it actually really good at it and does not allow it to effect friendships. I also really like most Norwex products and feel the quality is quite high. However, the prices are way too much and the shipping on top is the last straw. So I've bought probably $100-$150 of Norwex from her over last couple of years because she has introduced me to some great cleaning tools, but I also buy competitors products for a fraction of the price off of Amazon (there is no way I'm spending over $100 on a mop).

I usually like the products of these types of companies, at least Norwex and Pampered Chef, but I resent how they take advantage of social norms in order to get people to pay way more than they ever would in a store. Now excuse me while I go and hide my ecloth mop before she has a chance to see it . . .

I accidentally went to a Norwex "party" with my wife some years ago in my pre-Mustachian days.  I say accidentally because I just showed up for the free food and had no idea that someone was attempting to sell us something.

Anyhow, me being the normal skeptic (and somewhat of a cheapskate) that I am couldn't believe the absurd prices, so I proceeded to whip out my smartphone and did a little bit of on the spot research.  I quickly found e-cloth stuff and pointed this out to my wife.  We had a side conversation while the sales spiel was going on and decided not to buy anything.  That was my first and last MLM "party" experience.
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frozen

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #369 on: August 18, 2017, 03:18:28 PM »
If you need ammunition to get someone to stop participating in MLM, show them this hysterical John Oliver video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI

One powerful message: if you were to recruit 5 people into an MLM scheme and they each recruit 5, and so on....after 14 cycles you would exceed the population on earth and we would need to start reproducing!

Awesome job by John Oliver.  Is going to see the movie Betting on Zero to support the film maker

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/11/herbalife-documentary-betting-on-zero

Just watched Betting on Zero on Amazon. Great movie about the research Bill Ackman did on Herbal Life before shoring the stock. I now have Herbal Life added to the list of stocks I track.

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #370 on: August 20, 2017, 09:35:04 PM »
I've read about Lularoe, and how crazy people get about it.  It's just recently hit our area, but I don't know anyone who sells it.  There is a lady I know who's sold some sort of MLM product as long as I can remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if she, or one of her daughters, is one of them.  Somehow I got down the rabbit hole of reading about it, and it's pretty insane.  Then I looked at gofundme and there are a ton of women there trying to raise money for "their own business", because they can't afford the start up package.  On another board, I've read of certain people making a ton of money with it, but they got in early, when there were limited sellers.  Now many of them are getting out.

It's a little interesting to read about.  Apparently, if you wanted to get out before, you were stuck with your inventory.  So, many people started "going out of business" sales to get rid of tons of leftovers (most of the stuff is seriously ugly) that many fans of the clothing are no longer paying full price (which is crazy high for what it is).  Now current sellers are complaining because they can't compete, and it's leading to sellers reporting other sellers, etc, so it's really like people trying to escape a cult--all the formerly supporting people have turned against you.  On top of everything, they had some major quality issues and, because of the way the structure was set up, it was usually impossible to get something replaced in the same style/print that you wanted.

The company started to offer sellers, who wanted to get out, refunds of their inventory if they returned it.  The problem was, the company would not refund money on anything they deemed "defective", and would also not return the "defective" items.  So, people are  now out the money and the items they paid for.  One lady on another board said she figures she was shorted "a few hundred dollars", but she made a profit overall, so she's not complaining.  But, wow.

I have to admit, I did buy a pair of leggings from a "going out of business" sale, below wholesale, and while they are soft, I wouldn't wear them in public.  They are good for lounging around the house or wearing as long underwear (I wore them under a pair of jeans for a long, chilly bus ride recently), however, I could not see paying full price ($25).  There are some women who will buy dozens at a time though!

I saw this link recently, and it has a little about how they get people, and how far some will go to try to make an MLM work.  It's scary.

https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/

One of my SILs will "host" online parties every now and then for different things, and I think she had been selling one of the weightloss programs for a while (I saw her comment on someone's post that she had lost 20 pounds, and if the person wanted to know how, she should PM her.)  I just ignore the invites, when I've looked, things are just so overpriced it's ridiculous.


Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #371 on: August 22, 2017, 03:28:46 PM »
It's just recently hit our area, but I don't know anyone who sells it.  There is a lady I know who's sold some sort of MLM product as long as I can remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if she, or one of her daughters, is one of them.  Somehow I got down the rabbit hole of reading about it, and it's pretty insane.  Then I looked at gofundme and there are a ton of women there trying to raise money for "their own business", because they can't afford the start up package. 

How sad. These businesses use the hook phrase "empowering women" and these women think they're starting their own business, when they're not. It's actually someone else's business (whoever the CEO is0 and they will be a customer, not a business person. A customer who buys lots of inventory.

The lularoe startup kit is 5 to 6,000 dollars. Just to start. And the leggings will be out of style very soon, if they're not now.

yourusernamehere

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #372 on: August 22, 2017, 05:16:35 PM »

&lt;Snip&gt; And the leggings will be out of style very soon, if they're not now. &lt;Snip&gt;

One can only hope.

ABC123

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #373 on: August 22, 2017, 08:46:23 PM »
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

hops

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #374 on: August 23, 2017, 06:28:12 AM »
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #375 on: August 23, 2017, 10:26:52 AM »
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

Every time I see this I want to ask "Are you giving away this magical pill/food/drink for free? No, then I guess you're all about the money too."  I had to completely delete an old acquaintance from FB because after a while 9 out of 10 posts were either her posing at the gym or sharing the latest from Natural News.  She didn't have anything original to say about her own life or even the NN stuff she advertised - just straight copy/paste.  The straw that broke that back was some special apple sauce ad she posted that claimed to cure everything but cancer.  The ad showed the jar with 13 different cures next to it.  I want to find the lab rat who designed that apple sauce and see if he has received his Nobel yet.
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hops

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #376 on: August 23, 2017, 11:19:40 AM »
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

Every time I see this I want to ask "Are you giving away this magical pill/food/drink for free? No, then I guess you're all about the money too."  I had to completely delete an old acquaintance from FB because after a while 9 out of 10 posts were either her posing at the gym or sharing the latest from Natural News.  She didn't have anything original to say about her own life or even the NN stuff she advertised - just straight copy/paste.  The straw that broke that back was some special apple sauce ad she posted that claimed to cure everything but cancer.  The ad showed the jar with 13 different cures next to it.  I want to find the lab rat who designed that apple sauce and see if he has received his Nobel yet.

The silence was deafening once when I replied "The prescriptions that keep me out of the hospital are $10 for a 90-day supply. What do your products cost?" A more shameless seller might've suddenly switched gears in response and said you can't put a price on good health (as long as they're getting a cut of the profits).

Some of the quacky anti-medicine/anti-science memes they share are infuriatingly dangerous. An aunt whose husband owes his life to conventional cancer treatments reposts all the same anti-chemo BS her MLM pals like. I hope she's just doing it to fit in and not because she genuinely believes bananas and positive thinking are all you need to beat a serious illness.

hettie1

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #377 on: August 23, 2017, 12:07:06 PM »
UGH - I HATE MLM's.  At least 7 many friends have reached out to me "out of the blue" wanting to get together and "catch up" - I used to be excited to see old friends.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, lol.  After a few dissappointing get togethers, I now sadly have to ask people what they want to catch up about before agreeing to get together.
After choosing not to buy whatever they were trying to sell, I never heard from any of the "friends" again.

katstache92

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #378 on: August 24, 2017, 05:49:42 AM »
A friend from high school recently contacted me out of the blue.  She is a Rodan + Fields person.  I said no to being interested but she still sent me the telephone number to call to listen to a pitch.

Anyway, she just quit her full time teaching job.  As far as I can tell, she hasn't picked something else up, so I guess she's selling Rodan + Fields full time?  I wonder what will happen when people stop their initial "okay you're my friend I'll buy something" orders?

Trudie

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #379 on: August 24, 2017, 09:32:20 AM »
In simple terms, who has the time?  I don't enjoy shopping -- period -- and try to spend as little time as possible doing it.  So, I'm not going to sit in a room for three hours and do it.  I always have "other commitments," even if that commitment is to dinner with my husband or working out.


Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #380 on: August 24, 2017, 12:37:09 PM »
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

What's scary is some of them giving out medical advice when they shouldn't be. The essential oils MLM people tell their customers it's okay to ingest the oils. IT IS NOT. It can be very dangerous. Some of the oils can interact in bad ways with medications that people take. Some of the oils, if ingested, can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. I wish the FDA would crack down on these essential oil companies (Young Living, etc) and put them out of business altogether.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #381 on: August 24, 2017, 12:39:23 PM »
A friend from high school recently contacted me out of the blue.  She is a Rodan + Fields person.  I said no to being interested but she still sent me the telephone number to call to listen to a pitch.

Anyway, she just quit her full time teaching job.  As far as I can tell, she hasn't picked something else up, so I guess she's selling Rodan + Fields full time?  I wonder what will happen when people stop their initial "okay you're my friend I'll buy something" orders?

That's the problem. Once you have your first MLM party, and you've sold to all your friends and family members, you're left with cold calling or door knocking to get more business.

So they start recruiting instead and annoying their friends and family even more. If they encounter negativity, they say "I am going to be a successful business person and you're just jealous". Or "you are trying to ruin my dream".

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #382 on: August 24, 2017, 01:14:35 PM »
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

What's scary is some of them giving out medical advice when they shouldn't be. The essential oils MLM people tell their customers it's okay to ingest the oils. IT IS NOT. It can be very dangerous. Some of the oils can interact in bad ways with medications that people take. Some of the oils, if ingested, can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. I wish the FDA would crack down on these essential oil companies (Young Living, etc) and put them out of business altogether.

Before essential oils got trendy, I used to teach a perfumery class at a local shop and teach people how to make their own fragrances, candles, soap, bath salts, and other scented items.

The first 10 minutes were all about safety. Essential oils are highly flammable, many of them are absorbed through the skin in ways that cause permanent sensitivity to light, many are known carcinogens, and several are toxic. The ones that can induce miscarriage, for example, have very little gap between the effective dose and the toxic dose when ingested as an oil. The original herbal treatment relied on a tincture or decoction made from the original plant, the results of which are far less concentrated than an essential oil which is obtained through different processes.

You can't talk to an average group of people about relative concentrations of active chemicals in a solution, because they just don't understand the math or the science.

The other thing I did was to correct some of the "aromatherapy" bunkum. There have been a few controlled scientific studies that show human beings do respond to low levels of fragrance with physiological changes such as sexual arousal, but the fragrances touted as being aphrodisiacs did not produce the responses. For the most part it's a matter of psychological or even cultural association: good old classical and operant conditioning. There's nothing wrong with it, but people need to understand what they're doing with various fragrances, and why. They also need to know that some of the chemicals they're using have side effects. I don't approve of lavender or other plant estrogens being put into body care products used by men and adolescent boys, for example: there have been too many cases of gynecomastia caused by heavily fragranced commercially available soap products. So I'd identify the known carcinogens, estrogens, and photosensitizers and point them out so that people don't ingest them or put them on their skin.

Some of the local aromatherapists and alternative "healers" used to take my classes, scribbling notes wildly. I liked to think I helped make them marginally less dangerous to their customers. But most of them were shockingly ignorant about some very basic things.
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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #383 on: August 24, 2017, 01:41:13 PM »
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields.  Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff.  Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too!  This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money.  Ugh.  It's driving me crazy.

My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."

What's scary is some of them giving out medical advice when they shouldn't be. The essential oils MLM people tell their customers it's okay to ingest the oils. IT IS NOT. It can be very dangerous. Some of the oils can interact in bad ways with medications that people take. Some of the oils, if ingested, can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. I wish the FDA would crack down on these essential oil companies (Young Living, etc) and put them out of business altogether.

There are a couple Senators (Utah, Iowa, one of the ones with a short name) who block any attempts to regulate the supplement/quackery industry every year.  Federal departments like the FDA and USDA are grossly underfunded for the size of their mandate.  I haven't seen it for myself, but from what I've heard they pretty much leave it to the heavily biased Congressional subcommittees to tell them what their budget and priorities are each year.
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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #384 on: August 24, 2017, 02:46:52 PM »
The first 10 minutes were all about safety. Essential oils are highly flammable, many of them are absorbed through the skin in ways that cause permanent sensitivity to light, many are known carcinogens, and several are toxic. The ones that can induce miscarriage, for example, have very little gap between the effective dose and the toxic dose when ingested as an oil.

That's scary. I don't think I want to buy them at all now.

I remember when potpourri candles were popular. They had little bits of wood chips and things in the wax to look "pretty". However, this makes the more flammable. Those suckers caught fire and almost burned down my bathroom.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #385 on: August 24, 2017, 04:59:43 PM »
The first 10 minutes were all about safety. Essential oils are highly flammable, many of them are absorbed through the skin in ways that cause permanent sensitivity to light, many are known carcinogens, and several are toxic. The ones that can induce miscarriage, for example, have very little gap between the effective dose and the toxic dose when ingested as an oil.

That's scary. I don't think I want to buy them at all now.

I remember when potpourri candles were popular. They had little bits of wood chips and things in the wax to look "pretty". However, this makes the more flammable. Those suckers caught fire and almost burned down my bathroom.

It's OK to buy them, just don't think you're getting medicine, and don't chug it. If your goal is to make your bathroom smell pretty, feel free to put it in a diffuser but you're getting expensive Glade.

Medicinal uses that are validated by actual scientific research include:

* Eugenol (active ingredient in oil of cloves) is an effective topical dental anaesthetic but it doesn't work on everyone
* Lavender is an effective antiseptic, skin antifungal, and burn remedy but also a plant based estrogen.
* Tea tree oil is an effective skin cleanser to reduce acne, but it smells disgusting and there are better ones out there in my opinion.

Those are the only ones that come to mind. There might be others but I haven't kept up with them. It's not a long list and most of what essential oils are marketed for is pure quackery.

Some of the wood oils have good antifungal properties and are useful as an insecticide but are also carcinogens so drinking them is bad. The "pure" essential oils make lousy fragrance additions for candles and soap but are best for perfume. Oils with a synthetic carrier are preferred if you're going to make anything out of them especially combustible things.
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Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #386 on: August 24, 2017, 05:28:08 PM »

It's OK to buy them, just don't think you're getting medicine, and don't chug it. If your goal is to make your bathroom smell pretty, feel free to put it in a diffuser but you're getting expensive Glade.

Medicinal uses that are validated by actual scientific research include:

* Eugenol (active ingredient in oil of cloves) is an effective topical dental anaesthetic but it doesn't work on everyone
* Lavender is an effective antiseptic, skin antifungal, and burn remedy but also a plant based estrogen.
* Tea tree oil is an effective skin cleanser to reduce acne, but it smells disgusting and there are better ones out there in my opinion.

Those are the only ones that come to mind. There might be others but I haven't kept up with them. It's not a long list and most of what essential oils are marketed for is pure quackery.



The people pushing them only know what their company literature promotes about these oils. They have no medical background. I'm pretty sure oil of grapefruit might be carcinogenic in someone taking estrogen hormone therapy, because just grapefruit juice can raise estrogen levels and the highly concentrated oil could probably make it even worse. It scares me these MLMs are telling people to ingest the oils. "It's natural" is what they say, which is ignorant. Lots of things are natural, but are dangerous nonetheless.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #387 on: August 24, 2017, 05:41:47 PM »
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #388 on: August 24, 2017, 06:32:08 PM »
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

Carrots.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #389 on: August 24, 2017, 08:31:54 PM »
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

Carrots.

Not so loud. That's the only vegetable my son will eat.
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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #390 on: August 24, 2017, 08:35:01 PM »
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

I get the same vibe when people talk about "This ointment/oil/product kills cancer cells!"  Two things: 1) it probably happened in a single lab experiment that a media source caught wind of and 2) that doesn't mean it's fit for human consumption.  I see the cancer claim often countered by a stick figure holding a gun to a petri dish.
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Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #391 on: August 24, 2017, 09:32:22 PM »
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

I get the same vibe when people talk about "This ointment/oil/product kills cancer cells!"  Two things: 1) it probably happened in a single lab experiment that a media source caught wind of and 2) that doesn't mean it's fit for human consumption.  I see the cancer claim often countered by a stick figure holding a gun to a petri dish.

It's horrible for them to say that to someone that really does have a serious disease. They don't know that some product will kill any type of disease and are giving the person false hope. Or if the person tries it as a "cure" and it doesn't work, they will just feel worse.

One of those essential oil freaks stated on facebook that rubbing cedarwood oil into a bald head will make hair grow back. It doesn't work. My  husband tried it. It just made his head smell like cedarwood oil.

Warlord1986

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #392 on: August 25, 2017, 07:40:59 AM »
The chick who got into Rodan and Fields recently invited me to a party after years of no communication. I declined.

The language and tone of her commercial posts is really weird. It's all about her 'Rodan and Fields journey that begins now!' as if this is some heavy philosophical thing she's exploring. There was an online party that was announced with the following spiel:

"Friends!!! If you've been wondering why I joined Rodan +Fields and why this is such an amazing opportunity, I'd like to invite you to this amazing event! You'll hear the LIVE stories of 10 people and you WILL be inspired. You will hear stories from people like me who literally JUST joined and from those who have been in this life changing business for YEARS. I'm honored and humbled because they asked ME to speak! ME!!!! Crazy right?!
Come! Listen! Be inspired! Learn! See my face! Comment below or PM if you'd like a special invite."

She's also started attaching sales crap to her pictures about kids. "Here's my kid! Also lashboost is back in stock!"

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #393 on: August 25, 2017, 08:14:48 AM »
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.

I get the same vibe when people talk about "This ointment/oil/product kills cancer cells!"  Two things: 1) it probably happened in a single lab experiment that a media source caught wind of and 2) that doesn't mean it's fit for human consumption.  I see the cancer claim often countered by a stick figure holding a gun to a petri dish.

It's horrible for them to say that to someone that really does have a serious disease. They don't know that some product will kill any type of disease and are giving the person false hope. Or if the person tries it as a "cure" and it doesn't work, they will just feel worse.

One of those essential oil freaks stated on facebook that rubbing cedarwood oil into a bald head will make hair grow back. It doesn't work. My  husband tried it. It just made his head smell like cedarwood oil.

It'll make a melanoma grow. All the wood oils are mild carcinogens. That includes pine, spruce, and cedar, and juniper.
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Trudie

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #394 on: August 25, 2017, 08:23:07 AM »
Let's not forget that the current Secretary of Education made her fortune from the  (Sc)Amway empire -- among other faults.

Proud Foot

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #395 on: August 25, 2017, 09:20:53 AM »
Let's not forget that the current Secretary of Education made inherited/married into her fortune from the  (Sc)Amway empire -- among other faults.

FTFY. Not to forget her father founded a manufacturing business which was sold in 1996 for $1.35B (not sure how much he owned or how much she received from the sale).

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #396 on: August 26, 2017, 08:57:21 AM »
Let's not forget that the current Secretary of Education made her fortune from the  (Sc)Amway empire -- among other faults.

Yes, and that's one of the many reasons I don't like that particular person of which you speak.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #397 on: August 26, 2017, 01:07:21 PM »
Her brother started Blackwater, looks like being unethical runs in the family.  She herself spent a decade and millions of dollars advocating for charter schools in Michigan, which are no better than the public schools.  She's still in favor of them;  doesn't want facts to get in the way.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #398 on: August 27, 2017, 10:38:43 AM »
"Sign up under me for my cannabis oil mlm and I will give you a free mascara for women or a shirt for men.  Such a great deal, don't wait or I might run out."

Really?  What does mascara have to do with pot?  Or is this just the stock you have left over from the R&F crap you gave up on?

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #399 on: August 27, 2017, 02:33:48 PM »
UGH - I HATE MLM's.  At least 7 many friends have reached out to me "out of the blue" wanting to get together and "catch up" - I used to be excited to see old friends.

If part of us spending time together involves you making money off it, that's not freindship that's an escort service.