Author Topic: No, I won't buy into your MLM  (Read 214662 times)

OtherJen

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1000 on: November 28, 2018, 07:58:12 PM »
Irony, listening to "The Dream" on an airplane going home, then getting off the plane and walking under a "Welcome" sign from one of the biggest MLMs in the world.  Yup my thoughts on the company are "it's complicated."  The actual company and it's founders other business, not the MLM part, are a huge economic driver in my town.

I bet I can guess where you live. I've never been in that airport, but the downtown area drives home your point very nicely (although it is a very nice downtown).

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1001 on: November 29, 2018, 08:02:24 AM »
I've long been a little fascinated by how MLM big wigs can take advantage of the people recruited to work for the company and still take pride in their wealth and what their wealth afforded them.

"Look at my house, look at my cars, look at my boats!"

Yeah but look at all the people screwed over to generate the cash flow to buy these things. How can a person have pride in that?

Can apply to politicians, religious leaders, corporate leaders, MLM leaders, etc. 

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1002 on: December 01, 2018, 12:08:59 AM »
Lularoe, the ugly leggings MLM, has had a lawsuit filed against them from their former supplier.  There is a link to a pdf of the lawsuit here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/defective/permalink/1590805307732714/

From the lawsuit (owner of LLR to the supplier, MyDyer):

"Look guys, I am not going to pay you guys a f***ing dime unless a judge orders me to pay it, and DeAnne and I will take our two to three hundred million dollars to the Bahamas and f*** everything."

Lawsuit is for upwards of $48 million owed.

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1003 on: December 03, 2018, 09:27:22 AM »
Such nice people... People to be admired and celebrated. True American success stories.

Hunny156

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1004 on: December 04, 2018, 11:45:45 AM »
With LLR, the episode of American Greed just writes itself!  The company culture is so toxic too, it might as well be a cult.  When the lawsuit article broke on Saturday morning, the remaining top sellers and mentors all spouted the same lies.  Many of them were headed to CA for Facebook training for the day, and all big companies get hit w/lawsuits, no big deal.  Furthermore, LLR didn't pay those bills b/c the product was defective, they changed suppliers and this was sour grapes!

Umm, the FB training is something you can do online, so they obviously were headed to corporate offices to scheme some more lies to keep their consultants in line.

As for the lawsuit, if you order cheap fabrics and pay for low quality assembly, then that's what you get.  Can't blame the supplier for supplying you with crap product, when that's what you ordered.  Furthermore, in most cases, LLR determined that these products were not defective when the consultants noticed the issues.  You can't have it both ways.  You didn't pay the supplier b/c it was crap, but you charged your consultants to buy the crap, and then opted to counsel the consultants to blame their clients when things went wrong! 

Your leggings popped a huge hole on the very first wear?  You didn't order the right size.  The fabric disintegrated in the wash?  Why would you assume you could wash them like normal clothing?  Oh no, you have to hand wash and airy dry, like a fine pair of nylon stockings!

As someone who has never been involved in LLR in any way, it's been an interesting education in the inner workings of this one MLM, and I am rooting for the ship to go down, soon.  Unfortunately, the ones left holding the bag will be the ones least able to afford it, and the ones who should be held criminally responsible will get off mostly unscathed, likely with most of their stolen proceeds intact.

4alpacas

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1005 on: December 04, 2018, 12:08:41 PM »
Irony, listening to "The Dream" on an airplane going home, then getting off the plane and walking under a "Welcome" sign from one of the biggest MLMs in the world.  Yup my thoughts on the company are "it's complicated."  The actual company and it's founders other business, not the MLM part, are a huge economic driver in my town.

I bet I can guess where you live. I've never been in that airport, but the downtown area drives home your point very nicely (although it is a very nice downtown).
I have also been to that airport and grew up close to that area.

I also loved "The Dream" podcast.  I would highly recommend it to anyone frustrated with MLMs.

Cpa Cat

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1006 on: December 05, 2018, 06:08:08 AM »
Furthermore, in most cases, LLR determined that these products were not defective when the consultants noticed the issues.

The Dream dropped me down a rabbit hole of MLM podcasts, and the LLR story is fascinating. They may legitimately have a case for not paying their supplier if half of what consultants were saying was true - product arriving stinking, wet, torn, or otherwise damaged. Low quality items that tear upon first use.

But Hunny156 is right. LLR's response was that the consultants were wrong and that the defects were isolated. They basically acted like it wasn't true. Instead of responding swiftly to correct the supplier quality control issue and make things rights in order to protect their reputation, LLR's corporate office basically assisted in destroying their own reputation. They kept shipping from that supplier and blamed their customer instead.

What's more, LLR refused to refund the cost of the low-quality clothes to the consultants. So they sold the clothes, and didn't pay their supplier. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

englishteacheralex

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1007 on: December 05, 2018, 07:27:46 AM »
More MLM podcasts? Share them! The Dream was amazing and I'm thirsty for more!

OneStep

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1008 on: December 05, 2018, 03:12:13 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

englishteacheralex

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1009 on: December 05, 2018, 03:22:15 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!

4alpacas

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1010 on: December 05, 2018, 03:29:17 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree.  Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels.  However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry.  Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1011 on: December 05, 2018, 04:04:24 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree.  Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels.  However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry.  Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

Disclaimer: I have not read this!

One that completely fascinates me is Amway.  Mostly because I don't know enough about it to figure out how the hell anyone expects to make any money.  But, I know enough about it that they force "training" on people, and that seems to be how some of them make money (by creating and selling the training material).  But I really just don't get it.  Why are people so convinced they can get rich and quit their jobs.

This was recommended to me, and I want to read it, but I'm an extremely slow reader and already in the middle of two other books right now.

https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception

There is a pdf you can download (the kindle version didn't work for me).  It's legible (unlike the version shown on the computer when you just go to the link).  It's written by a man who was deep into amway (and one of the top people).

Quote
...My wife and I were recruited by friends and quickly rose through the ranks and found ourselves in the top 1/25th of 1% of the multi-billion dollar Amway Corporation. For nearly a decade, we developed a “business” that expanded from North America to Europe, South America, and the Philippines. We spoke to thousands from stage and worked intimately with the Kingpin distributors through whom as much as 90% of Amway's $4-5 billion dollars in annual revenue flows. My wife and I spent personal time with the company's billionaire founder Rich DeVos.
To make a long story short, at the highest level, I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into sums far in excess of twenty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation.
Their response was more shocking than what I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing...

4alpacas

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1012 on: December 05, 2018, 04:42:23 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree.  Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels.  However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry.  Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

Disclaimer: I have not read this!

One that completely fascinates me is Amway.  Mostly because I don't know enough about it to figure out how the hell anyone expects to make any money.  But, I know enough about it that they force "training" on people, and that seems to be how some of them make money (by creating and selling the training material).  But I really just don't get it.  Why are people so convinced they can get rich and quit their jobs.

This was recommended to me, and I want to read it, but I'm an extremely slow reader and already in the middle of two other books right now.

https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception

There is a pdf you can download (the kindle version didn't work for me).  It's legible (unlike the version shown on the computer when you just go to the link).  It's written by a man who was deep into amway (and one of the top people).

Quote
...My wife and I were recruited by friends and quickly rose through the ranks and found ourselves in the top 1/25th of 1% of the multi-billion dollar Amway Corporation. For nearly a decade, we developed a “business” that expanded from North America to Europe, South America, and the Philippines. We spoke to thousands from stage and worked intimately with the Kingpin distributors through whom as much as 90% of Amway's $4-5 billion dollars in annual revenue flows. My wife and I spent personal time with the company's billionaire founder Rich DeVos.
To make a long story short, at the highest level, I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into sums far in excess of twenty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation.
Their response was more shocking than what I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing...
Thanks!  I'll have to check it out.

Villanelle

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1013 on: December 06, 2018, 01:26:01 AM »
I had an extremely awkward interation with a coworker re: Amway (or whatever it's called these days.)  She took some time off with her husband to travel to a conference for "their business", which I learned from other coworkers was Amway.  This woman and I were work friends--lunch together more often than not, but we had only hung out one time outside of work as part of a large group.  So she returns from her conference and a couple days later comes and sits down in my cube.  That in and of itself was a bit weird.  As soon as she started talking, I could tell she was nervous.  So she starts telling me about what a great opportunity having their own business has been for her and her husband, and wouldn't I love to have that freedom?  (Or something like that; this was years ago).  I told her that DH and I are super busy and didn't have time for anything else, or something along those lines.  Of course she didn't take no for an answer, so she then told me that it takes almost no time, and blah blah blah.  Thankfully, she was pretty terrible at it because I suck at saying now (although there is no way I would have every said yes to that, but it probably would have gotten very awkward).  It was pretty obvious that she was using scripts she'd been given to counter various arguments, but after a few attempts, she gave up and left it with telling me to contact her if I changed my mind and ever wanted to be able to quit work and run my own business. 

I considered reporting her to management, but it would have gotten super awkward in a fairly small workplace, so I didn't. 

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1014 on: December 06, 2018, 07:15:39 AM »
More MLM podcasts? Share them! The Dream was amazing and I'm thirsty for more!

Was it the sort of production you can listen to, that contains content, and that delivers it in an intelligent way?

I have to admit that I've tried a few podcasts and TED talks only to delete them early because the people on them simply can't communicate verbally. My personal rule is that if no new information is communicated within the first three minutes, I switch it off. Mostly I've found podcasts to be mumble-mumble, jargon, throat clearing, lip smacking, "well you know", and people interrupting each other or laughing about some kind of inside joke the audience isn't part of. TED talks are even worse because they're one-sided emotional bubblings that simply don't deliver any content. Sitting around wasting ten minutes of bandwidth for something that could have been communicated in thirty seconds or less isn't my idea of a good time. So I haven't done any podcasts in years.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 12:37:15 PM by TheGrimSqueaker »

englishteacheralex

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1015 on: December 06, 2018, 07:18:16 AM »
Do you like This American Life? It was along those lines. Pretty informative, almost like a nonfiction book. I actually don't generally love TED talks or super conversational podcasts, myself, but to me The Dream was more substantive.

Beard N Bones

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1016 on: December 06, 2018, 08:06:21 AM »
Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

I have found the best book on MLM's is "MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING UNMASKED – Why Multilevel Marketing Is Unfair and Deceptive" By Jon M. Taylor.  Here is a link to that book on www.mlmwatch.org:
https://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/mlm_unmasked_2017.pdf

Happy reading.  (/sar.  The info in that book gets me all-fired-up.)

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1017 on: December 06, 2018, 08:15:14 AM »
For me there are podcasts and there are podcasts. I rarely have patience for the very amateur podcasts recorded in someone's spare room. Not enough content, too much of all the things TGS mentioned.

Then there are podcasts that could easily double for an NPR/BBC radio show - and sometimes do. Those are very professionally made and to me, interesting most of the time. TAL and The Dream were good examples. Hidden Brain is another one I've enjoyed.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 08:19:53 AM by Just Joe »

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1018 on: December 06, 2018, 08:31:40 AM »
It's been awhile, but with the holidays the MLM parties are popping out of the woodwork!

Essential oil "classes" like crazy, huge number of vendor fairs and just today Color Street Nails.  basically jamberry, but made out of real nail polish and really limited selection. No thanks, I'll just keep painting my nails.

All the LLR consultants I know of in the area are still selling.  I don't think people are buying as much though, I rarely see it around, and for awhile it was everywhere.

4alpacas

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1019 on: December 06, 2018, 10:12:33 AM »
Ugh!  I was hunting for a new podcast, and I came across a women's side hustle podcast (I forget the actual title of the podcast).  The first (and only) episode I downloaded was about an MLM.  I immediately deleted the episode.  UGH!

Hunny156

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1020 on: December 06, 2018, 12:03:46 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree.  Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels.  However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry.  Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

Disclaimer: I have not read this!

One that completely fascinates me is Amway.  Mostly because I don't know enough about it to figure out how the hell anyone expects to make any money.  But, I know enough about it that they force "training" on people, and that seems to be how some of them make money (by creating and selling the training material).  But I really just don't get it.  Why are people so convinced they can get rich and quit their jobs.

This was recommended to me, and I want to read it, but I'm an extremely slow reader and already in the middle of two other books right now.

https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception

There is a pdf you can download (the kindle version didn't work for me).  It's legible (unlike the version shown on the computer when you just go to the link).  It's written by a man who was deep into amway (and one of the top people).

Quote
...My wife and I were recruited by friends and quickly rose through the ranks and found ourselves in the top 1/25th of 1% of the multi-billion dollar Amway Corporation. For nearly a decade, we developed a “business” that expanded from North America to Europe, South America, and the Philippines. We spoke to thousands from stage and worked intimately with the Kingpin distributors through whom as much as 90% of Amway's $4-5 billion dollars in annual revenue flows. My wife and I spent personal time with the company's billionaire founder Rich DeVos.
To make a long story short, at the highest level, I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into sums far in excess of twenty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation.
Their response was more shocking than what I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing...
Thanks!  I'll have to check it out.

I have read it.  It's a pretty good read, but towards the end, I felt like the author was just so shocked coming out of the Amway fog, that he rambled on for about 50 pages too long.  So you might want to skip to the very end if you feel the same way I did.

Hula Hoop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1021 on: December 06, 2018, 01:40:29 PM »
Ugh I belong to an expat moms group in my town and there is this one woman who keeps spamming our online group with invitations to gatherings where she's obviously trying to hawk her MLM.  This is driving me and another member crazy but the group moderator is too polite to do anything.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1022 on: December 06, 2018, 03:03:00 PM »
It's been awhile, but with the holidays the MLM parties are popping out of the woodwork!

Essential oil "classes" like crazy, huge number of vendor fairs and just today Color Street Nails.  basically jamberry, but made out of real nail polish and really limited selection. No thanks, I'll just keep painting my nails.

All the LLR consultants I know of in the area are still selling.  I don't think people are buying as much though, I rarely see it around, and for awhile it was everywhere.
For me, Usborne books.  Two invites in one week.  And now, the skincare Rodan & Fields again.  One of my college buddies promised to send me a "free gift!"  So I sent her my address with a "uh, my idea of skin care is that I wash my face in the shower..."

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1023 on: December 06, 2018, 03:49:19 PM »
What happened to leggings? I thought they were just the best. There isn't another brand worth buying instead of LRR? I'm male so forgive my ignorance about these things. Maybe the interest in that style ended with the beginning of LRR's troubles?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 07:23:28 AM by Just Joe »

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1024 on: December 06, 2018, 05:02:40 PM »
I enjoyed The Dream podcast, but it was left too unresolved.  I'm curious about how much money the limelight/limelife girl ended up putting in, how she was treated if it wasn't enough, etc. 

Lanthiriel

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1025 on: December 08, 2018, 12:35:03 PM »
What happened to leggings? I thought they were just the best. There isn't another brand worth buying instead of LRR? I'm male so forgive my ignorance about these things. Maybe the interest in that style ended with the beginning of LRR's troubles?

I wear leggings every day after giving up on pants about two years ago. The only ones I buy are the Felina brand two packs from Costco in black. I buy four sets once per year and toss them as I wear out the thighs (I'm a bit overweight, hence the aversion to pants). I wear them under a wide assortment of dresses for all occasions. They are wonderfully soft, not too long for my short legs, and cost about $7.50/pair. I love them. No MLMs required.