Author Topic: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.  (Read 3350 times)

GilbertB

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Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« on: September 16, 2017, 06:06:34 PM »
I never rent stuff, I either buy new or used.
This is true for stuff that is in the few thousands range, obviously if I need a tractor, things are different.

Anyhow.
I am installing a new ventilation system in my house to put it up to code.
This a Continental Euro house, so everything is a mix of concrete, ciment and brick.
The holes in the ceiling fron the attic to the 1st floor are 180mm wide.
I normally do these with a heavy percussion drill and a percussion hammer.
Getting through the 30cm takes less than a hour per hole.

However, everybody was insisting I rent a diamond boring drill...
Everybody as in the ventilation supplier, the architect, the contractor etc.
I finally give in and on their recommendation go to Huurland.
The price on the web page was 79 per day + wear on the diamond bit.
A guesstimate from their info put it a 100 to 125 for the day...

Ohh, how wrong I was...
Setup was a chore as this model needed 4 anchors.
The machine was incapable of completing a single bore, probably because the concrete is heavy on quartz/hard stuff. The thing would torque lock at the slightest pressure. Carbide has no problem as the hardness makes it brittle under impact.
Used more than 100L or water for the effort. Did a giant mess.

So I went back to the store after two hours.
They made me pay the full price on EVERYTHING, totalling 211 for NOTHING.
Tried to tell them about the 79 price on the website, but having my deposit, they had me by the proverbials.
What a ripoff!

A good second hand machine is worth about 900 and can be sold on after a week for 900 minus postage. A drill bit fit for the purpose for about 80...
Or 35 for a premium bit for my drill that could probably last for twenty of these holes...
So yeah, I feel stupid right now.

JAYSLOL

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2017, 04:59:56 AM »
I'm surprised the place you rented from didn't give you a break seeing as it didn't work for you.  I've rented equipment in the past and always got a discount if I wasn't satisfied with the performance.  I actually rented a large stump grinder ($25k diesel powered machine on skid steer tracks) and found it to be completely useless, hydraulics were really slow and it bogged down too easily.  Throttle cable wasn't set tight enough, so I fixed that and it ran great, but if I didn't figure out the problem and fix it I wouldn't have paid for the machine.  Even if they charged my card I would have called the credit card company and had it reversed. 

gooki

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2017, 05:34:28 AM »
I hope you paid by credit card. If so do a charge back.
Follow me on my journey to FI.

GilbertB

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 01:22:57 AM »
I'm surprised the place you rented from didn't give you a break seeing as it didn't work for you.  I've rented equipment in the past and always got a discount if I wasn't satisfied with the performance.  I actually rented a large stump grinder ($25k diesel powered machine on skid steer tracks) and found it to be completely useless, hydraulics were really slow and it bogged down too easily.  Throttle cable wasn't set tight enough, so I fixed that and it ran great, but if I didn't figure out the problem and fix it I wouldn't have paid for the machine.  Even if they charged my card I would have called the credit card company and had it reversed.
Asked them to be reasonable, to no avail.
Seems they don't like return business...

GilbertB

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 01:25:13 AM »
I hope you paid by credit card. If so do a charge back.
Can't really do that in Europe (as far as I know).
Plus, due to my job, I have to irreproachable at all times, so I can't withhold funds and argue...

gooki

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 02:23:41 AM »
Pretty sure all credit card companies all over the world facilitate charge backs (either directly or via the issuing back). Either way glad to see you learned a valuable lesson.
Follow me on my journey to FI.

GilbertB

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 03:30:59 AM »
Pretty sure all credit card companies all over the world facilitate charge backs (either directly or via the issuing back). Either way glad to see you learned a valuable lesson.
To be honest, I was a lesson that I knew.
But it was hammered back into my thick skull.

Mr Mark

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 06:05:25 AM »
I hope you paid by credit card. If so do a charge back.
Can't really do that in Europe (as far as I know).
Plus, due to my job, I have to irreproachable at all times, so I can't withhold funds and argue...

That's a bummer GilbertB

Perhaps you could have tried leveraging your 'irreproachable at all times' reputation with management to inform them how you would be telling this (true) story to all your friends and business associates throughout the entire city about what a total rip-off merchant they are, and that you would be recommending potential customers avoid them like the plague.

If they are a nation-wide chain, try writing a letter of complaint to the CEO. You might at least get a store credit out of them.
Mr. Mark

paddedhat

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 06:08:52 AM »
Not questioning your miserable experience in the least, but there are times when core drilling is matters of millimeter per hour progress. I was working with an electrical contractor that renovated a stunning stone cathedral. The job involved coring a dozen 120MM holes through  a 1-1/4 meter thick stone wall. The task was handed to an electrician who was nearing 70 years old, and had a legendary calm demeanor. He was the obvious choice, since most guys woulds of slammed a hard hat against the wall and said, "fuck this, I quit" long before the job was done. 

Thousands of dollars worth of diamond core bits, a couple of swimming pools worth of water, and a MONTH of eight hour days, and he finished the last bore.

Fishindude

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 06:42:18 AM »
Chalk that up to a lesson learned.  A diamond core drill is not for the inexperienced.  I own several and would never send out someone who is untrained.  Guessing a lot of the problem was operator error?    Next time tell the heating and AC guy, it's his responsibility to cut & patch the holes.

GilbertB

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 02:34:22 PM »
Chalk that up to a lesson learned.  A diamond core drill is not for the inexperienced.  I own several and would never send out someone who is untrained.  Guessing a lot of the problem was operator error?    Next time tell the heating and AC guy, it's his responsibility to cut & patch the holes.
Normally I borrow/rent one from a friend, but it was not possible this time.
I use that one handheld, no problems.

NeonPegasus

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2017, 04:37:31 PM »
Chalk that up to a lesson learned.  A diamond core drill is not for the inexperienced.  I own several and would never send out someone who is untrained.  Guessing a lot of the problem was operator error?    Next time tell the heating and AC guy, it's his responsibility to cut & patch the holes.

True story.

Did they supply the bit? Was it used? We core 3" OD holes when we install our railings in concrete. We use ~$200 core drill bits that are designed to work for the concrete mixes typically used in our geographic area. We count on getting no more than 8 holes per bit. A fresh bit should drill a core about 4" down in 15 min or so but it can hit 30 min if there's a lot of rebar and other nasty stuff. Considering you made no progress with that bit, I have to wonder about how much wear it already had on it.

We don't mess around with bits. We don't need to get flung off a wall from the thing locking up.

GilbertB

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2017, 01:59:01 AM »
Chalk that up to a lesson learned.  A diamond core drill is not for the inexperienced.  I own several and would never send out someone who is untrained.  Guessing a lot of the problem was operator error?    Next time tell the heating and AC guy, it's his responsibility to cut & patch the holes.
True story.
Did they supply the bit? Was it used? We core 3" OD holes when we install our railings in concrete. We use ~$200 core drill bits that are designed to work for the concrete mixes typically used in our geographic area. We count on getting no more than 8 holes per bit. A fresh bit should drill a core about 4" down in 15 min or so but it can hit 30 min if there's a lot of rebar and other nasty stuff. Considering you made no progress with that bit, I have to wonder about how much wear it already had on it.
We don't mess around with bits. We don't need to get flung off a wall from the thing locking up.
Yup, their bit, they measured it after use, found no wear, still billed me the minimum.
They applied their rules to the letter, ok, but that's not how you run things if you want people to come back.
I always test drill before doing anything, normally 7x 12mm holes to test, I really want to avoid hitting a forgotten steel water pipe.

EricL

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 08:14:27 PM »
I had to rent an impact wrench for a 30 second job. It was about $30 for an hour.  I think I did OK rather than buy the same tool for $200.  But then again it did the job as advertised in 30 seconds. 
Gentleman of Leisure

accolay

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2017, 02:18:46 PM »
Sorry for your experience, but I rent tools all the time. The rental place is close and reputable. Jackhammer, cast iron pipe breaker, dirt tiller. All saved hours of work for a reasonable price for tools I don't need to use often.

Slee_stack

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2017, 02:32:43 PM »
I've paid the price by NOT renting tools in the past.

Just recently, I gave in and rented a Demolition hammer that accomplished in 10 minutes what I'd spent two+ hours struggling with prior.

I also smashed the hell out of a finger trying to 'save a few bucks' without it.  i still have a black fingernail a month later....at least the finger was purple for only about 4 days or so.

I paid $75 or so for the tool rental.   I could have bought a new one for $600+.

IMO, ALWAYS RENT tools you only have a rare need for...and don't cheap out by trying to use a lesser tool for the job.

GilbertB

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2017, 03:01:45 AM »
I've paid the price by NOT renting tools in the past.

Just recently, I gave in and rented a Demolition hammer that accomplished in 10 minutes what I'd spent two+ hours struggling with prior.

I also smashed the hell out of a finger trying to 'save a few bucks' without it.  i still have a black fingernail a month later....at least the finger was purple for only about 4 days or so.

I paid $75 or so for the tool rental.   I could have bought a new one for $600+.

IMO, ALWAYS RENT tools you only have a rare need for...and don't cheap out by trying to use a lesser tool for the job.
If I was like my brother, without a 320mm angle grinder to my name, and not much construction to do, yes.
But if you are at your 3rd house renovation, then you have built up tooling to the point that renting anything this side of 2000 does not make sense (especially as I have a roof conversion and a 40m2 full demo to new build in the plans... This will end up being a side gig methinks).
Also, I am dealing with a house that is from from a grey zone between "old" and "new" construction methods, thusly totally unpredictable. If this was a new build, where making a planning and sticking to it is possible, then renting makes more sense.

Next year I am renting scaffolding for a month, but doing from a company I have worked with previously and whose prices are fully predictable.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2017, 04:03:18 AM »
I feel sorry for you, Gilbert.

If you are doing a project that will last for more than several days, it often pays off to buy the tool. Owning the tool means you can work at your own pace. Sometimes the tool is too expensive, but in some cases there is a cheap, less fancy alternative that can be used to do the job. Otherwise, as you mention, buying second hand can be a good choice. Or borrowing from someone else. Renting a tool is only practical if you need the tool for one day and don't need it in the future.

Hiring a scaffold should be safe. That is pretty predictable in what you will receive and what you will have to pay.

NeonPegasus

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Re: Never rent tools, got taken out to the cleaners Friday.
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2017, 06:11:02 PM »
I've paid the price by NOT renting tools in the past.

Just recently, I gave in and rented a Demolition hammer that accomplished in 10 minutes what I'd spent two+ hours struggling with prior.

I also smashed the hell out of a finger trying to 'save a few bucks' without it.  i still have a black fingernail a month later....at least the finger was purple for only about 4 days or so.

I paid $75 or so for the tool rental.   I could have bought a new one for $600+.

IMO, ALWAYS RENT tools you only have a rare need for...and don't cheap out by trying to use a lesser tool for the job.
If I was like my brother, without a 320mm angle grinder to my name, and not much construction to do, yes.
But if you are at your 3rd house renovation, then you have built up tooling to the point that renting anything this side of 2000 does not make sense (especially as I have a roof conversion and a 40m2 full demo to new build in the plans... This will end up being a side gig methinks).
Also, I am dealing with a house that is from from a grey zone between "old" and "new" construction methods, thusly totally unpredictable. If this was a new build, where making a planning and sticking to it is possible, then renting makes more sense.

Next year I am renting scaffolding for a month, but doing from a company I have worked with previously and whose prices are fully predictable.

We rent tools several times a year. Usually, it's something like an engine driven welder that we almost never need in the field. Sometimes it's a scissor lift. If we rented a tool that didn't perform, I'd be pissed and demand our money back.

We also frequently source parts of our projects to another shop. But then again, that is frequent in our industry. No one has all the machines so there is a weird interconnectedness between competitors. You can only swing so many five figure machines.