Author Topic: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members  (Read 96306 times)

Gronnie

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #450 on: September 28, 2018, 04:00:42 PM »
And on a more direct and specific example, here's a 2007 paper from the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905885/

The entirety of the paper's conclusions are as follows:

"Spinal manipulation, particularly when performed on the upper spine, is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects. It can also result in serious complications such as vertebral artery dissection followed by stroke. Currently, the incidence of such events is not known. In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation."

Here's the American Heart Association in 2014, warning that "most population controlled studies have found an association between CMT (cervical manipulative therapy) and VAD stroke in young patients": https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/str.0000000000000016

Here's the case which started with the British Chiropractic Association suing journalist Simon Singh for libel, and ended with every major British party pledging libel law reform and a quarter of the BCA's members coming under investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh.

My cousin ended up having an artery dissection after a neck manipulation. She has had a couple of strokes since. Early 30s single mother of 2, such a sad story.

iris lily

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #451 on: September 30, 2018, 09:51:21 AM »
However, it doesn't change the fact that chiropract*ic* (FTFY)  as a profession is quackery and not rooted in any scientific base.   It descends from a long tradition of snake oils salesmanship, and will continue to be around as long as the placebo effects exists and the venn diagram intersection of people with painful ailments and people wanting a quick fix is not zero.

Chiropractic is rooted in science, just as medical practice is, just as physiotherapy is, just as massage therapy is.  And just because you see chiropractic practiced in your part of the world as woooo woooo, doesn't mean the whole profession is like that.  As you said, there are good and bad doctors, lawyers, hair stylists, etc.  But just because there are bad doctors, it doesn't mean the whole profession is baseless.  And just because some lawyers are unethical, it doesn't mean that the profession is corrupt.

Chiropractic care, specifically spinal manipulative therapy, has been shown to be effective far beyond placebo for many neuromusculoskeletal problems.  (What I find really interesting, is that physiotherapists are more and more starting to use spinal manipulation with their clientele...)

In previous discussions here,
I think we learned that chiro training is different in
Canada than in U.S.  so, there may be differences i. What we experience here from treatment ya’ll provide up North.

Maybe.

The best chiro I heard about in recent years took one look at my friend’s spinal xrays and said “I am not toiching this, you need a surgeon to evaluate this.”
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 09:53:24 AM by iris lily »

iris lily

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #452 on: September 30, 2018, 09:54:03 AM »
And on a more direct and specific example, here's a 2007 paper from the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905885/

The entirety of the paper's conclusions are as follows:

"Spinal manipulation, particularly when performed on the upper spine, is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects. It can also result in serious complications such as vertebral artery dissection followed by stroke. Currently, the incidence of such events is not known. In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation."

Here's the American Heart Association in 2014, warning that "most population controlled studies have found an association between CMT (cervical manipulative therapy) and VAD stroke in young patients": https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/str.0000000000000016

Here's the case which started with the British Chiropractic Association suing journalist Simon Singh for libel, and ended with every major British party pledging libel law reform and a quarter of the BCA's members coming under investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh.

My cousin ended up having an artery dissection after a neck manipulation. She has had a couple of strokes since. Early 30s single mother of 2, such a sad story.

Tragic, indeed.

BTDretire

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #453 on: October 01, 2018, 08:41:09 AM »
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."

And not to derail the thread into other alternative therapies, but I also feel compelled to say that I was a total non-believer in acupuncture until a year ago -- I am a very anti-woo-woo person.  I met my therapist at the gym and made my first appointment with her thinking she was a sports-medicine-focused therapist; when she whipped out the needles I wanted to walk out but thought that would be massively rude.  So I figured, well, I'm here, can't hurt.  And wow.  I am a total believer now and go every week -- I have a permanent spine issue and a rotator cuff issue that I am avoiding, and she manages to get the specific muscles and fascia to release so I can keep working out without seizing up.
I have read just enough to gain a respect for acupuncture as theoretical treatment. Finding the right practitioner is probably key, as in most treatments. And having reasonsble expectations sbout what the treatment will accomplish, also important.
I tried an acupuncturist  for back/leg pain (two herniated discs)
I didn't find it to help. The acupuncturist connects wires to the needles and applies varying rhythmic electric pulses to the needles, on one appointment the equipment had a failure and the rhythmic pulses became continuous and didn't reduce in strength. I called out to the doc to turn it off. I ask about the equipment during the next appointment and he said he threw it out.
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