Author Topic: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members  (Read 97214 times)

barbaz

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #400 on: August 31, 2018, 12:18:14 AM »
Today I am up for a whole day of meetings according these scrum buzzwords. Puke!
Good to hear that more normal (MMM) people find the scrum business a provoking BS method.
Seriously though, if you think these meetings are a waste of time, you should point that out in the retrospective. That’s what it’s for.

For those who don’t know, scrum has a regular meeting with the single purpose of giving everyone a chance to complain about how things are done and to suggest improvements. I think a lot of companies could benefit from that.

runbikerun

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #401 on: August 31, 2018, 02:08:15 AM »
The use of the word scrum in a business meeting sense, along with similar bullshit like referring to top-tier coders as"rockstar", is infuriating. I spent four years playing rugby, two of them as a loosehead prop, and an actual scrum is light years from a stand-up meeting about tasks for the day.

Nobody discusses anything in a scrum. A call is made, and everybody shuts the fuck up and does their job. All you can think about as a prop is the guy opposite you and how to shove his head between his knees using nothing but your shoulder. All you can think about as a lock is getting your shoulders just under your front row's arses and driving into them as hard as you can. The only workplace environment I've ever been in that comes close to replicating the psychological feeling of scrummaging was the lunchtime rush at Burger King when I was seventeen years old.

Calling a staff meeting a scrum is insulting to rugby players, indicative of a total lack of knowledge of what a scrum actually is, and a bullshit attempt to imbue management theory with a badass aura it absolutely does not deserve.

UnleashHell

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #402 on: August 31, 2018, 03:58:13 AM »
The use of the word scrum in a business meeting sense, along with similar bullshit like referring to top-tier coders as"rockstar", is infuriating. I spent four years playing rugby, two of them as a loosehead prop, and an actual scrum is light years from a stand-up meeting about tasks for the day.

Nobody discusses anything in a scrum. A call is made, and everybody shuts the fuck up and does their job. All you can think about as a prop is the guy opposite you and how to shove his head between his knees using nothing but your shoulder. All you can think about as a lock is getting your shoulders just under your front row's arses and driving into them as hard as you can. The only workplace environment I've ever been in that comes close to replicating the psychological feeling of scrummaging was the lunchtime rush at Burger King when I was seventeen years old.

Calling a staff meeting a scrum is insulting to rugby players, indicative of a total lack of knowledge of what a scrum actually is, and a bullshit attempt to imbue management theory with a badass aura it absolutely does not deserve.

and always protect your hooker.


please.

marty998

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #403 on: August 31, 2018, 04:47:25 AM »
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...
In a scrum, with agile.
@TheGrimSqueaker and @plainjane. As Scrum Master of this Scrum Team I am disappointed in the lack of Scrum Values you are both displaying.

I'm going to write this up on the Scrum Board.

Now go work on your Sprint Backlog before we conduct our Sprint Retrospective and Sprint Reviews of this debacle.

I apologize for not living the team values or following the spirit of the social contract that we all wrote out together at the beginning of this project. I hang my head and have returned to reviewing Trello cards.
I come here to get away from this!

I am so, so thankful that I have absolutely no idea what any of this means.

Today I am up for a whole day of meetings according these scrum buzzwords. Puke!
Good to hear that more normal (MMM) people find the scrum business a provoking BS method.

I had enough of the buzzword baloney shit sandwiches during my time at HoneyHell doing Six Sigma. When I left that shithole, swore that if any company that I worked for decided to implement stupid shit like that, it was time to move on.

I work with code developers and operations engineers, we use git and terraform and aws cli and a lot of devops tools, but we don't do the stupid scrumbumfucks and agile-cluster-fuckery-yoga-twistys.

Fuck all these idiocracies that claim to increase productivity and being told by non-technical people running dumbfuck meetings how to develop code. Dumbass mofos need to bumblefuck doubletime and gtfo to bumfuckegypt.

At least we've stopped trying to be ahead of the curve. My company talks a lot now about being simpler, yet at last count we have 1800 different products.

Linda_Norway

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #404 on: August 31, 2018, 04:53:19 AM »
Calling a staff meeting a scrum is insulting to rugby players, indicative of a total lack of knowledge of what a scrum actually is, and a bullshit attempt to imbue management theory with a badass aura it absolutely does not deserve.

Can you please send a rugby team over here to tell my boss that?

Spud

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #405 on: August 31, 2018, 10:59:02 AM »
In this context, the word cadence, if we dropped all the business jargon and bullshit and instead used plain English, would simply be called "frequency". That's right folks. It's simply how frequently the meeting takes place. Fuck cadence. Seriously.

barbaz

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #406 on: August 31, 2018, 11:02:01 AM »
Calling a staff meeting a scrum is insulting to rugby players, indicative of a total lack of knowledge of what a scrum actually is, and a bullshit attempt to imbue management theory with a badass aura it absolutely does not deserve.

Can you please send a rugby team over here to tell my boss that?
Scrum isn’t a meeting, it’s a process. Which consists of different meetings, among other things.

Dabnasty

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #407 on: August 31, 2018, 11:26:42 AM »
In this context, the word cadence, if we dropped all the business jargon and bullshit and instead used plain English, would simply be called "frequency". That's right folks. It's simply how frequently the meeting takes place. Fuck cadence. Seriously.

Frequency seems more apt in terms of meetings. I've always thought of cadence as referring to rhythmic motion. Just checked the definition and it seems to refer specifically to sounds. I assume the connection to motion comes from using sound to regulate motion, as in calling cadence while marching. I would accept cadence to refer to motion or sound. Cadence of meetings is hereby unacceptable :)

prudent_one

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #408 on: September 01, 2018, 07:40:19 PM »
I'm so lucky I work in production ag.  I never, ever use buzzwords.  Unless "food safety" is a buzzword.  I'm imagining having to sit in a meeting where they're telling me about calling a calendar a "cadence" and I would be like....but why?  And then channel my inner Ron Swanson to tell them no, I'm not doing that, we all know it's a calendar.  And what is a scrum?  I thought that was some rugby thing?

Actually, I quite like cadence. It is nice and musical. And it means something different from calendar. We meet once a month, that is the cadence. The calendar date doesn't matter. If we were meeting three times a week, and now we're meeting twice a week, that isn't a calendar change, it's a cadence change. Granted, some people probably are using it wrong because they just think it is a buzz word and not something with actual meaning and stuff.

I asked my neighbor what actually happened with the meeting change, he said the meetings are held every two weeks, and the change was to move all the future meetings out by one week. Still every two weeks, just on different dates.

Agree with you that frequency is a better match for "cadence".

K-ice

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #409 on: September 01, 2018, 10:47:29 PM »
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didnít go well. Lol

Oh no, I hope you are feeling better.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #410 on: September 02, 2018, 05:48:37 AM »
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.

jinga nation

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #411 on: September 04, 2018, 06:09:27 AM »
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.
Some companies don't want to use that foreign word, but like the principles of Kaizen, so they rebrand it. e.g. Honeywell Operating System (HOS). Then they add in Six Sigma and Lean. Proper HOSed.

frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #412 on: September 06, 2018, 09:18:53 AM »
To clarify: they do have a staff of two people... a "chiropractic assistant" and an office manager. They were childhood friends of my BIL and were working restaurant jobs prior to this. They are probably being paid minimum wage, zero benefits, etc. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.

Kay-Ell

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #413 on: September 10, 2018, 01:24:31 PM »
In this context, the word cadence, if we dropped all the business jargon and bullshit and instead used plain English, would simply be called "frequency". That's right folks. It's simply how frequently the meeting takes place. Fuck cadence. Seriously.

Frequency seems more apt in terms of meetings. I've always thought of cadence as referring to rhythmic motion. Just checked the definition and it seems to refer specifically to sounds. I assume the connection to motion comes from using sound to regulate motion, as in calling cadence while marching. I would accept cadence to refer to motion or sound. Cadence of meetings is hereby unacceptable :)

The use of the term Cadence, as it pertains to business meetings, is a huge pet peeve of mine.  I'm a musician.  A Cadence is a series of chords to signal the ending of a piece of music (or sometimes a phrase within a piece of music).  Unless they're going to start playing the most comonly recognized, perfect cadence, at 5pm to signify the end of the work day, they can shut their pie holes about cadences.

lemanfan

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #414 on: September 10, 2018, 02:03:12 PM »
Cadence is also a quite common terms in bicycling, meaning basically the pace of pedalling.

chaskavitch

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #415 on: September 10, 2018, 02:57:45 PM »
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.
Some companies don't want to use that foreign word, but like the principles of Kaizen, so they rebrand it. e.g. Honeywell Operating System (HOS). Then they add in Six Sigma and Lean. Proper HOSed.

All the cube-people (as opposed to manufacturing floor people) in my company are going through Lean training right now.  They're still use the Kaizen terms too.  I like the concept, but it seems difficult to implement while trying to remember all of your new terms :)

iris lily

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #416 on: September 10, 2018, 06:55:53 PM »
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didnít go well. Lol
i am very sorry to hear this. I dont trust the fkers myself and they are not going to crack or adjust or bend me.


KodeBlue

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #417 on: September 12, 2018, 07:18:55 PM »
. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.
Wasn't she teaching spin or something?

barbaz

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #418 on: September 13, 2018, 06:56:00 AM »
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didn’t go well. Lol
i am very sorry to hear this. I dont trust the fkers myself and they are not going to crack or adjust or bend me.

Oh thanks, I’m fine.
Yeah, I had 3 MDs that week warn me against chiro. MDs here seem to really hate chiros.
Mine comes highly recommended by my sports med doctor though, so who knows.
I’m mostly going for the Shockwave, which is like a massage on steroids.

I would never let anyone crack anything on my body, and after last time, there will never be dry needling again.
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

I'm a red panda

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #419 on: September 13, 2018, 08:27:07 AM »
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.
Some companies don't want to use that foreign word, but like the principles of Kaizen, so they rebrand it. e.g. Honeywell Operating System (HOS). Then they add in Six Sigma and Lean. Proper HOSed.

All the cube-people (as opposed to manufacturing floor people) in my company are going through Lean training right now.  They're still use the Kaizen terms too.  I like the concept, but it seems difficult to implement while trying to remember all of your new terms :)

We used Lean for awhile. Now I have to learn all the Agile buzzwords.


Vibrissae

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #420 on: September 13, 2018, 12:18:14 PM »
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didnít go well. Lol
i am very sorry to hear this. I dont trust the fkers myself and they are not going to crack or adjust or bend me.

Oh thanks, Iím fine.
Yeah, I had 3 MDs that week warn me against chiro. MDs here seem to really hate chiros.
Mine comes highly recommended by my sports med doctor though, so who knows.
Iím mostly going for the Shockwave, which is like a massage on steroids.

I would never let anyone crack anything on my body, and after last time, there will never be dry needling again.
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

I have a chiropractor who's helped me so much, and yeah, he basically does physical therapy: heat, electrostimulation, ultrasound, lasers, massage. A couple of cracks at the very end, but gentle. I don't live in that town anymore, but on the infrequent occasions I need treatment, I drive an hour to go see him, because I don't want to deal with the hassle of trying to find a new chiro who isn't full of woo-woo BS.

I'd never heard of dry needling before now...


jinga nation

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #421 on: September 13, 2018, 12:31:42 PM »
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.
Some companies don't want to use that foreign word, but like the principles of Kaizen, so they rebrand it. e.g. Honeywell Operating System (HOS). Then they add in Six Sigma and Lean. Proper HOSed.

All the cube-people (as opposed to manufacturing floor people) in my company are going through Lean training right now.  They're still use the Kaizen terms too.  I like the concept, but it seems difficult to implement while trying to remember all of your new terms :)

We used Lean for awhile. Now I have to learn all the Agile buzzwords.
In a software/cloud world, not only do I have to learn and get certified in AWS and Azure with their tech terms, but also learn git, Jenkins, Salt, Terraform, etc, which have their own lingo. And Agile on top of that would drive me over the cliff. Plus there's ton of contract onsite lingo as the govt has their own acronym lexicon. Truly hosed I am.

frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #422 on: September 13, 2018, 12:36:49 PM »
. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.
Wasn't she teaching spin or something?

She has yet to teach a single class.

calimom

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #423 on: September 13, 2018, 07:10:46 PM »
. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.
Wasn't she teaching spin or something?

She has yet to teach a single class.

She's waiting for the millions to kick in, meanwhile driving her new-to-her gas guzzler around, avoiding actual chiropractic clients as much as possible. So inconvenient, them!

Kahooli

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #424 on: September 13, 2018, 08:29:48 PM »
I haven't read the whole thread... just the first and last page. But they really need to hear these words:
"Stop acting like you're rich, because you obviously are not"

KodeBlue

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #425 on: September 13, 2018, 09:42:34 PM »
[She's waiting for the millions to kick in, meanwhile driving her new-to-her gas guzzler around, avoiding actual chiropractic clients as much as possible. So inconvenient, them!
I know just how she feels. I work in a hospital; it would be a great place to work if it wasn't for all the sick people that seem to congregate there.

barbaz

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #426 on: September 14, 2018, 08:33:31 AM »
I haven't read the whole thread... just the first and last page. But they really need to hear these words:
"Stop acting like you're rich, because you obviously are not"
I hope they don’t, or we would get no more great stories.

I know just how she feels. I work in a hospital; it would be a great place to work if it wasn't for all the sick people that seem to congregate there.
I hear people die in hospitals a lot, maybe you really should work someplace safer?

iris lily

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #427 on: September 14, 2018, 09:12:10 AM »
Funnily enough, the more over saturated a medical industry is, the harder it is to make money, and the more practitioners spend on extremely expensive measures to try and boost their patient numbers and their profits. Meanwhile salaries on average continue to plummet.


Isn't that pretty much any biz and not only the medical field?

I think the ďFunnily enoughĒ intro clues us that this is a pretty common economic law.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 09:18:00 AM by iris lily »

iris lily

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #428 on: September 14, 2018, 09:17:34 AM »
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didnít go well. Lol
i am very sorry to hear this. I dont trust the fkers myself and they are not going to crack or adjust or bend me.

Oh thanks, Iím fine.
Yeah, I had 3 MDs that week warn me against chiro. MDs here seem to really hate chiros.
Mine comes highly recommended by my sports med doctor though, so who knows.
Iím mostly going for the Shockwave, which is like a massage on steroids.

I would never let anyone crack anything on my body, and after last time, there will never be dry needling again.
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

Exactly! I think the problem may be that in order to get a physical therapist to treat you, ya gotta have orders from a regular western medicine Dr.  Most people want to skip that step.

My dad was a physical therapist from the 1940ís when it was a fairly new health science degree. I trust that profession and roll my eyes at the chiros having heard a lot over decades about their quack  work.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 09:22:23 AM by iris lily »

KodeBlue

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #429 on: September 14, 2018, 09:34:04 AM »
I haven't read the whole thread... just the first and last page. But they really need to hear these words:
"Stop acting like you're rich, because you obviously are not"
I hope they donít, or we would get no more great stories.

I know just how she feels. I work in a hospital; it would be a great place to work if it wasn't for all the sick people that seem to congregate there.
I hear people die in hospitals a lot, maybe you really should work someplace safer?
Made my day!

Laura33

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #430 on: September 14, 2018, 10:13:00 AM »
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."

And not to derail the thread into other alternative therapies, but I also feel compelled to say that I was a total non-believer in acupuncture until a year ago -- I am a very anti-woo-woo person.  I met my therapist at the gym and made my first appointment with her thinking she was a sports-medicine-focused therapist; when she whipped out the needles I wanted to walk out but thought that would be massively rude.  So I figured, well, I'm here, can't hurt.  And wow.  I am a total believer now and go every week -- I have a permanent spine issue and a rotator cuff issue that I am avoiding, and she manages to get the specific muscles and fascia to release so I can keep working out without seizing up.

ixtap

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #431 on: September 14, 2018, 11:45:47 AM »
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."

And not to derail the thread into other alternative therapies, but I also feel compelled to say that I was a total non-believer in acupuncture until a year ago -- I am a very anti-woo-woo person.  I met my therapist at the gym and made my first appointment with her thinking she was a sports-medicine-focused therapist; when she whipped out the needles I wanted to walk out but thought that would be massively rude.  So I figured, well, I'm here, can't hurt.  And wow.  I am a total believer now and go every week -- I have a permanent spine issue and a rotator cuff issue that I am avoiding, and she manages to get the specific muscles and fascia to release so I can keep working out without seizing up.

My husband still isn't sold on acupuncture, but he goes every other week because he likes talking to his therapist, whom we refer to as his pain management specialist. It has been a year and he is evidently still the most tense person ever to grace the table.

iris lily

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #432 on: September 14, 2018, 02:36:13 PM »
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."

And not to derail the thread into other alternative therapies, but I also feel compelled to say that I was a total non-believer in acupuncture until a year ago -- I am a very anti-woo-woo person.  I met my therapist at the gym and made my first appointment with her thinking she was a sports-medicine-focused therapist; when she whipped out the needles I wanted to walk out but thought that would be massively rude.  So I figured, well, I'm here, can't hurt.  And wow.  I am a total believer now and go every week -- I have a permanent spine issue and a rotator cuff issue that I am avoiding, and she manages to get the specific muscles and fascia to release so I can keep working out without seizing up.
I have read just enough to gain a respect for acupuncture as theoretical treatment. Finding the right practitioner is probably key, as in most treatments. And having reasonsble expectations sbout what the treatment will accomplish, also important.

Nederstash

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #433 on: September 15, 2018, 07:52:33 AM »
. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.
Wasn't she teaching spin or something?

She has yet to teach a single class.

How was she able to explain that to God? It was his plan after all.

Zamboni

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #434 on: September 15, 2018, 09:27:35 AM »
To clarify: they do have a staff of two people... a "chiropractic assistant" and an office manager. They were childhood friends of my BIL and were working restaurant jobs prior to this. They are probably being paid minimum wage, zero benefits, etc. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.

Sounds like they can add "shitty employers" to their list of virtues.

How do their employees feel about their relatively low pay for these weird and evolving hours? Have the employees drank the Koolaid too?

barbaz

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #435 on: September 17, 2018, 12:27:41 AM »
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."
Acupuncture works. Funnily though, it doesn’t even matter where you put the needles. Just make sure not to stick them too deep or you risk damaging your nerves. “Traditional acupuncture points” don’t actually exist because the traditional Chinese couldn’t agree on a single “correct” way to do it. In fact it’s better to stay away from the “traditional” points because they often have nerves near them.

partgypsy

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #436 on: September 17, 2018, 11:09:17 AM »
I used to lump acupuncture in with other new age treatments, but since then, have seen a few veterans who have really benefited from acupuncture. Let's just say these are not your typical "new age" treatment people, so maybe there is something to it, even if just activating one's own pain responses.

I'm a red panda

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #437 on: September 17, 2018, 11:37:40 AM »

Exactly! I think the problem may be that in order to get a physical therapist to treat you, ya gotta have orders from a regular western medicine Dr.  Most people want to skip that step.

My dad was a physical therapist from the 1940ís when it was a fairly new health science degree. I trust that profession and roll my eyes at the chiros having heard a lot over decades about their quack  work.

I'm so glad I live in a state that doesn't require a PT referral.

Also, dry needling is incredible.   I've also had acupuncture and it costs 10x more and I haven't seen effects from it.
The two treatments were nothing alike. The dry needling was myofacial trigger point release, to stimulate twitch response in the muscles that were in pain. The acupuncture were placed on "meridians" away from where I actually felt pain.  So I wouldn't say it is acupuncture without acupuncture training.

That said- my Mom uses acupuncture for allergies, and it's incredible, so I wouldn't say it's a waste to do. Just that they are different things.

BicycleB

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #438 on: September 17, 2018, 12:11:39 PM »
In this context, the word cadence, if we dropped all the business jargon and bullshit and instead used plain English, would simply be called "frequency". That's right folks. It's simply how frequently the meeting takes place. Fuck cadence. Seriously.

Frequency seems more apt in terms of meetings. I've always thought of cadence as referring to rhythmic motion. Just checked the definition and it seems to refer specifically to sounds. I assume the connection to motion comes from using sound to regulate motion, as in calling cadence while marching. I would accept cadence to refer to motion or sound. Cadence of meetings is hereby unacceptable :)

The use of the term Cadence, as it pertains to business meetings, is a huge pet peeve of mine.  I'm a musician.  A Cadence is a series of chords to signal the ending of a piece of music (or sometimes a phrase within a piece of music). Unless they're going to start playing the most comonly recognized, perfect cadence, at 5pm to signify the end of the work day, they can shut their pie holes about cadences.

You've found the exact reason why the cadence metaphor is used. The meetings are exactly like a series of chords to signal the ending of a piece of music, in that they're supposed to have notes from each player. The meetings do signal the end of a phrase, in that they are to signal the end of a coordinated set of work being done, concluding jointly similar to how musicians end a phrase. And like the coordinated play in a song, the work of the team is supposed to be coordinated here to achieve a harmonious satisfying single result (piece of working software, etc).

Former touring musician here, have seen/ been involved in scrums that worked wonderfully. All but one did, so far. Sad that so many bad examples are out there, though.

Sorry to digress from the acupuncture bit. How are the millionaires doing?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 12:35:56 PM by BicycleB »

Laura33

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #439 on: September 17, 2018, 12:29:14 PM »

Exactly! I think the problem may be that in order to get a physical therapist to treat you, ya gotta have orders from a regular western medicine Dr.  Most people want to skip that step.

My dad was a physical therapist from the 1940ís when it was a fairly new health science degree. I trust that profession and roll my eyes at the chiros having heard a lot over decades about their quack  work.

I'm so glad I live in a state that doesn't require a PT referral.

Also, dry needling is incredible.   I've also had acupuncture and it costs 10x more and I haven't seen effects from it.
The two treatments were nothing alike. The dry needling was myofacial trigger point release, to stimulate twitch response in the muscles that were in pain. The acupuncture were placed on "meridians" away from where I actually felt pain.  So I wouldn't say it is acupuncture without acupuncture training.

That said- my Mom uses acupuncture for allergies, and it's incredible, so I wouldn't say it's a waste to do. Just that they are different things.

Right -- the "meridians" are traditional Chinese acupuncture points, which I don't really know if I believe in for all things they are touted for (although they do definitely cause some interesting physiological responses when she does them).  Because my therapist also does sports medicine, she tends to spend more of the time doing what other places call "dry needling."  So it's not that people can't do both, or that there is no good dry needling -- it's more the classic regulated/unregulated thing.  My therapist had to go through a 4-year post-grad program to be certified and allowed to practice as a licensed acupuncturist; regardless of whether I think the treatment works or not, I know that she has been well-trained in it and will do it safely.  OTOH, "dry needling" has become such a thing in the sports medicine world around here that people are taking quickie courses and offering it at local gyms, so the folks who really do know what they're doing are largely outnumbered by the rest, and it is very hard to distinguish between the two.

Sibley

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #440 on: September 17, 2018, 01:05:17 PM »
Well, I'm traditionally 100% against "woo" though I usually don't say anything. However my vet suggested CBD for my cat's arthritis, and a few weeks in she's acting like she's 15 again (she's 19). So, I am willing to accept that some "woo" may work, in specific circumstances. Note: CBD seems to have an anti-inflammatory effect, possibly help with pain as well. There is definitely a lot of woo out there online, and not a lot of hard research. I don't really care how it works, my cat has been downstairs more in the last 2 weeks than she has been in the last YEAR.

Beard N Bones

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #441 on: September 27, 2018, 04:07:27 PM »
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

You seem to be mistaken and exceptionally biased @barbaz 
Here is some reading for you and anyone else that thinks chiropractic is quackery and will land you in a wheelchair.  These are just a small sampling of what's out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390

runbikerun

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #442 on: September 28, 2018, 04:29:04 AM »
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

You seem to be mistaken and exceptionally biased @barbaz 
Here is some reading for you and anyone else that thinks chiropractic is quackery and will land you in a wheelchair.  These are just a small sampling of what's out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390

I'm on my phone and so can't go into the detail I'd like, but I'd note that while warnings regarding the dangers of chiropractic treatment are focused on increased stroke risk among younger people, those links are a Cochrane review which doesn't mention controlling for age or indeed looking at anything except reduction of lower back pain, a study based on people aged 66 and older, and a study which found substantially different results for under 45s and over 45s.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 05:43:44 AM by runbikerun »

runbikerun

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #443 on: September 28, 2018, 06:00:32 AM »
And on a more direct and specific example, here's a 2007 paper from the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905885/

The entirety of the paper's conclusions are as follows:

"Spinal manipulation, particularly when performed on the upper spine, is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects. It can also result in serious complications such as vertebral artery dissection followed by stroke. Currently, the incidence of such events is not known. In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation."

Here's the American Heart Association in 2014, warning that "most population controlled studies have found an association between CMT (cervical manipulative therapy) and VAD stroke in young patients": https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/str.0000000000000016

Here's the case which started with the British Chiropractic Association suing journalist Simon Singh for libel, and ended with every major British party pledging libel law reform and a quarter of the BCA's members coming under investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh.



marty998

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #444 on: September 28, 2018, 06:34:58 AM »
vertebral artery dissection

This sounds like a particularly gruesome form of medieval torture to inflict on a poor unfortunate soul.

In other news today, earlier up this thread I wrote something about scrums. Today I participated in a Scrum Of Scrums. I have no idea what the purpose of a Scrum Of Scrums is, but it did get me thinking whether I needed to radio SOS to get me out of there...

erutio

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #445 on: September 28, 2018, 08:33:35 AM »
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

You seem to be mistaken and exceptionally biased @barbaz 
Here is some reading for you and anyone else that thinks chiropractic is quackery and will land you in a wheelchair.  These are just a small sampling of what's out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390

There are some good and some bad chiros out there, just like there are good and bad doctors, lawyers, hair stylists, etc.  And there are many people who could benefit from seeing the right chiropractor.

However, it doesn't change the fact that chiropracty as a profession is quackery and not rooted in any scientific base.   It descends from a long tradition of snake oils salesmanship, and will continue to be around as long as the placebo effects exists and the venn diagram intersection of people with painful ailments and people wanting a quick fix is not zero.

Linda_Norway

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #446 on: September 28, 2018, 12:04:03 PM »
vertebral artery dissection

This sounds like a particularly gruesome form of medieval torture to inflict on a poor unfortunate soul.

In other news today, earlier up this thread I wrote something about scrums. Today I participated in a Scrum Of Scrums. I have no idea what the purpose of a Scrum Of Scrums is, but it did get me thinking whether I needed to radio SOS to get me out of there...

Scrum of scrums, been there, done that. I have been at such a meeting with only well paid supervising consultants present, not anyone who did any actual work. That is how we a consultants kept eachother busy there.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 01:51:06 PM by Linda_Norway »

Beard N Bones

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #447 on: September 28, 2018, 01:31:29 PM »

The entirety of the paper's conclusions are as follows:

"Spinal manipulation, particularly when performed on the upper spine, is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects. It can also result in serious complications such as vertebral artery dissection followed by stroke. Currently, the incidence of such events is not known. In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation."

Here's the American Heart Association in 2014, warning that "most population controlled studies have found an association between CMT (cervical manipulative therapy) and VAD stroke in young patients": https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/str.0000000000000016

Here's the case which started with the British Chiropractic Association suing journalist Simon Singh for libel, and ended with every major British party pledging libel law reform and a quarter of the BCA's members coming under investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh.

You are right:
- There are mild/moderate side effects to SMT.  Muscle, joint ache (very often) to mild strain/sprain (not often).  Any profession who does manual therapy will have those "risks."
- An association (note they didn't claim causation) between CMT and cardiovascular events.  If you read the articles I posted, you will also notice there is also an association of those presenting to medical doctors with neck pain and headaches and cardiovascular events.  These are exceptionally rare cases - so much so that it is next to impossible to do good scientific research on it as a person needs sufficient cases to study.    But I'm sure you know that from reading the articles I hyperlinked, right @runbikerun ?


Beard N Bones

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #448 on: September 28, 2018, 02:12:23 PM »
However, it doesn't change the fact that chiropract*ic* (FTFY)  as a profession is quackery and not rooted in any scientific base.   It descends from a long tradition of snake oils salesmanship, and will continue to be around as long as the placebo effects exists and the venn diagram intersection of people with painful ailments and people wanting a quick fix is not zero.

Chiropractic is rooted in science, just as medical practice is, just as physiotherapy is, just as massage therapy is.  And just because you see chiropractic practiced in your part of the world as woooo woooo, doesn't mean the whole profession is like that.  As you said, there are good and bad doctors, lawyers, hair stylists, etc.  But just because there are bad doctors, it doesn't mean the whole profession is baseless.  And just because some lawyers are unethical, it doesn't mean that the profession is corrupt.

Chiropractic care, specifically spinal manipulative therapy, has been shown to be effective far beyond placebo for many neuromusculoskeletal problems.  (What I find really interesting, is that physiotherapists are more and more starting to use spinal manipulation with their clientele...)

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #449 on: September 28, 2018, 03:40:18 PM »
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

You seem to be mistaken and exceptionally biased @barbaz 
Here is some reading for you and anyone else that thinks chiropractic is quackery and will land you in a wheelchair.  These are just a small sampling of what's out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390

There are some good and some bad chiros out there, just like there are good and bad doctors, lawyers, hair stylists, etc.  And there are many people who could benefit from seeing the right chiropractor.

However, it doesn't change the fact that chiropracty as a profession is quackery and not rooted in any scientific base.   It descends from a long tradition of snake oils salesmanship, and will continue to be around as long as the placebo effects exists and the venn diagram intersection of people with painful ailments and people wanting a quick fix is not zero.

The older I get, the more I understand that you do whatever works. I don't have to care why. You don't have to care why. If someone is in chronic pain and chiro works for them, great. If homeopathy works for them, equally great. If praying to a bowl of lemons on their coffee table at 3:12 exactly every afternoon works for them, also great. What or why doesn't matter. What matters is the outcome.