Author Topic: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members  (Read 16171 times)

frugalfoothills

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My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« on: January 25, 2018, 03:09:29 PM »
Allow me to paint a picture:

My sister, 26 years old, and her husband, 29 years old, both currently unemployed.
My sister has a bachelor's degree and a master's that my parents paid for out of pocket. Zero student loans, graduated in May of 2016. My brother-in-law graduated from chiropractic school in December 2017 with $90k in student loan debt. Sister got a part-time job at a hospital and worked for a year (October 2016 to October 2017), then quit her job so that she and the BIL could relocate.

Relocation is happening so that he can open his own chiropractic office. They have taken a loan from his father for $150k to get the practice up and running. Original start date was supposed to be March of 2018, but has since been pushed out until July at the earliest. For those doing the math: 7 months away.

In the meantime, neither are planning on getting jobs. They are renting a 3 br house (it's just the 2 of them) for $2k a month and using the business loan to pay their rent. They are also exclusively shopping at Whole Foods (they only eat organic), are considering purchasing a new (to them) car, and have made plenty of other questionable purchases using the business loan as if it's "income."

$90k in student loan debt, $150k business loan. Both loans set to come due starting in July, or month 1 that they're open for business. They're planning on using money leftover in the business loan to make his student loan payments if needed. No word on what they'll be using to make the business loan payments, and no word on how they'll be paying themselves! The mystery. The intrigue.

Whenever money comes up and my sis senses some skepticism on behalf of my family, I am informed that my BIL was part of a "special program" in chiropractic school (this program is apparently affiliated with the school in some way, but you have to pay to be a part of it on top of your tuition?) that taught him the secrets of how to become a millionaire within a year. They're expecting to be VERY wealthy VERY quickly through this chiropractic office.

Am I missing something here? Are most chiropractors millionaires? Is starting a chiropractic office somehow different than starting other businesses that would make it more lucrative more quickly?

They've also told me that they're planning on buying "a lot of land" (they're in a HCOL area) and building their dream house, and also building homes on the land for myself, my parents, and his parents. That's the level of delusion we're talking about here.


« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 03:35:37 PM by frugalfoothills »
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Just Joe

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaires Family Members
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2018, 03:12:29 PM »
What school? Fly-by-night affair?

frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaires Family Members
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2018, 03:19:18 PM »
What school? Fly-by-night affair?

I don't want to say specifically, and I don't know *too* much about the credibility of chiropractic schools in general, but it was a real university in the southeast that seems like a legit school to me (and I am a highly skeptical person by nature.) That being said, this whole "get rich quick" program they allow to be affiliated with them makes me question things. Even if it's not offered BY the school, the school advertises it and allows their students pay to be a part of this program where they're pumped full of information about how chiropractic is a literal godsend and cures all (cancer, IBS, psoriasis, etc. etc.) and are encouraged to seek out "customers." They have to pay to participate on top of tuition, and are also required to work for other chiropractors who are part of this program for free as some kind of side "internship"... the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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faithless

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaires Family Members
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2018, 03:37:44 PM »
pumped full of information about how chiropractic is a literal godsend and cures all (cancer, IBS, psoriasis, etc. etc.) and are encouraged to seek out "customers." They have to pay to participate on top of tuition, and are also required to work for other chiropractors who are part of this program for free as some kind of side "internship"

Was the extra course 'applying reverse funnel system techniques to your chiropractic practice'?

frugalecon

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2018, 03:48:02 PM »
To determine whether a chiropractor can become a millionaire in a year, I would start by multiplying the number of patients a chiropractor can see in a week by the planned fee, multiply that by 50 (two weeks off/year), and then subtract out business expenses. Perhaps cloning is part of the secret.

bacchi

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2018, 04:16:23 PM »
To determine whether a chiropractor can become a millionaire in a year, I would start by multiplying the number of patients a chiropractor can see in a week by the planned fee, multiply that by 50 (two weeks off/year), and then subtract out business expenses. Perhaps cloning is part of the secret.

If every patient is 5 minutes in-and-out, and an upsell healing crystal is sold, it can be done.

Chiropractors can make good money but they should stick to bones and muscles. All of the woo-woo curing cancer BS just makes their profession seem silly.


frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2018, 04:36:21 PM »
To determine whether a chiropractor can become a millionaire in a year, I would start by multiplying the number of patients a chiropractor can see in a week by the planned fee, multiply that by 50 (two weeks off/year), and then subtract out business expenses. Perhaps cloning is part of the secret.

If every patient is 5 minutes in-and-out, and an upsell healing crystal is sold, it can be done.

Chiropractors can make good money but they should stick to bones and muscles. All of the woo-woo curing cancer BS just makes their profession seem silly.

The real irony is that both he and my sister ascribe to this (they are very anti hospital, anti doctors, anti medication) but my sister has a chronic skin condition. She preaches that chiropractic and a vegan diet can heal anything, and yet she isn't able to touch things like literal SOAP without experiencing this crippling "breakout" that renders her incapable of doing anything. I'm constantly told about how various things in my life will kill me and give me cancer (nail polish, candles, tap water, MAMMOGRAMS) and meanwhile she is sitting there unable to pet her dog without wearing special gloves.

I do feel for her with the health issues, but it's hard not to sit and shake your head at the cognitive dissonance.
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TempusFugit

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2018, 04:54:29 PM »
I've got some chiropractor friends that do very well financially.  The key is to own the clinic and employ lower paid chiropractors to work at said clinic, thus multiplying your throughput.

I'm not really sold on chiropractors as legit medical professionals, but I certainly separate the ones who seem to stay within the boundary of back pain issues from the truly weird ones who think an "adjustment" can cure any disease.  There seems (in my limited experience) to be a big overlap in a Venn diagram of chiropractors and anti-vaxxer types. 

To be fair, I think there's lots of evidence that back surgeons are equally guilty of reliance upon the placebo effect. And one might argue that they put people at much more risk.

I hope to never need the service of either, and I'm sure that if I'm unlucky enough to suffer from chronic pain, I'll be equally eager to find someone who promises to help.

thesvenster

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2018, 05:10:40 PM »
Some chiropractors are goofballs, but all the ones I've visited are scientific about what they do. Personally, I don't think I would be able to move if it weren't for CP treatment.

Quite the risky game your family is playing. A new practice doesn't just come with patients, they'll have to build up their base first. And what the heck about the special program he was in in school? that just sounds sketchy.

frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2018, 05:12:15 PM »
I've got some chiropractor friends that do very well financially.  The key is to own the clinic and employ lower paid chiropractors to work at said clinic, thus multiplying your throughput.

I'm not really sold on chiropractors as legit medical professionals, but I certainly separate the ones who seem to stay within the boundary of back pain issues from the truly weird ones who think an "adjustment" can cure any disease.  There seems (in my limited experience) to be a big overlap in a Venn diagram of chiropractors and anti-vaxxer types. 

To be fair, I think there's lots of evidence that back surgeons are equally guilty of reliance upon the placebo effect. And one might argue that they put people at much more risk.

I hope to never need the service of either, and I'm sure that if I'm unlucky enough to suffer from chronic pain, I'll be equally eager to find someone who promises to help.

I actually am pretty pro-chiropractic due to a back injury I incurred in high school. Sports therapists, orthopedists, my general practitioner... no one could help me until I saw a chiropractor. I swear that dude had magic hands.

But telling someone with cancer to forego chemo and eat vegan and see a chiropractor instead? Damn son, you got balls. I'm not willing to gamble anyone's life on that.

But back to the finances: I can't get the math to work. He will be the only chiropractor. To gross a million bucks, he'd need to see 385 patients a week at $50 a pop. 385 patients in a 40 hour work week means almost 10 patients an hour. My chiropractor sees about 2.

Wtf?
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Cpa Cat

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2018, 05:26:10 PM »
Am I missing something here? Are most chiropractors millionaires? Is starting a chiropractic office somehow different than starting other businesses that would make it more lucrative more quickly?

I have several chiropractor clients and none are millionaires, but they do have healthy incomes. However, by healthy, I mean low six-figures. They have also been building their businesses for several years. Will they be millionaires one day? Yes, in all likelihood, and it will go quicker than the average working schlup.

On the other hand, there is a lot of competition in the chiropractic industry. It often seems as though there's a chiropractor on every corner. With that kind of competition, there's only so much a chiropractor can charge.

The most successful of the chiropractors - the only Chiropractic-Millionaire I know - branched out from regular work. He became the exclusive chiropractor for a successful sports team, and then he designed app to help people do stretches that target their particular problem, and then he got a big corporate contract where he goes into giant corporate offices and gives lectures, adjustments, and makes recommendations in order to assist in reducing workplace injuries and worker's comp claims.

As others have mentioned - it would require a staggering number of patients to make a million in one year - and that's gross. Then there are employee costs for processing insurance claims, overhead costs for rent, taxes, marketing, insurance, etc. Then you'd need the patients to be filling the schedule on day one.  In order to get patients, a significant amount of networking needs to occur - but there's no time in that schedule for unpaid networking.

I'm sure his father will accept a delay in payment terms.

The_Dude

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2018, 05:42:20 PM »
I have a friend that went to Chiropractor school.  He said that there are two types of Chiropractor schools, those that believe a chiropractor can cure any disease through spinal manipulation and those that don't.  His school did not believe or teach that anything could be cured through spinal manipulation but they had a few guest speakers come through that did.  These speakers told stories about curing everything from cancer to snake bites. 

A friend of a friend worked at a high volume chiropractor for a while.  Apparently they had amazing patient per hour throughput.  Treated everything like an assembly line and the chiropractor used the same basic adjustments on nearly everyone.  Most patients saw the actual chiropractor for a very short time (don't recall exactly, maybe 5 minutes?) and of course they used heavy sales tactics to try and keep people coming indefinitely for "preventative care."

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2018, 05:45:19 PM »
I don't go to Chiropractors and I also don't go to Faith Healers or Hoodoo Fortune Tellers. They are all pretty much the same thing.

southern granny

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 06:16:08 PM »
I don't go to Chiropractors and I also don't go to Faith Healers or Hoodoo Fortune Tellers. They are all pretty much the same thing.
As a 60 year old woman who has had back trouble since I was 19, I am convinced I would be in a wheel chair by now without chiropractors or dead from pain killers.  I have a very good cp, but I know where he lives and I am pretty sure he isn't a millionaire, but he is only about 38, so he may be someday. 

Sibley

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2018, 08:04:04 PM »
Wow. OP, assuming you'll see your family for holidays, etc - prepare for drama. Popcorn, lots of it. Maybe 4th of July, definitely Thanksgiving, and increasing chances in between.

Also, don't lend anyone a penny until you know how everything is going to fall out. Including future EOC/enabling.

frugalecon

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2018, 08:08:19 PM »
The “special program” sounds like it could be a multi-level marketing scheme. That would be a way to gross a cool mill without much trouble.

Just out of curiosity, I googled the name of a chiropractic university I had heard of in a major Southern city and “scam,” and I found a lot of hits. I am sure someone is earning a million dollars, but it may not be the students....

bacchi

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2018, 10:57:40 PM »
The “special program” sounds like it could be a multi-level marketing scheme. That would be a way to gross a cool mill without much trouble.

Yo, it's not an MLM. It's a reverse funnel!

damyst

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2018, 12:45:21 AM »
Wow. OP, assuming you'll see your family for holidays, etc - prepare for drama. Popcorn, lots of it. Maybe 4th of July, definitely Thanksgiving, and increasing chances in between.

I'd love to see some updates from the OP later in the year.
It would be awesome if their plan works out and the whole family is rolling in dough, but... yeah, don't forget that popcorn.

Dicey

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2018, 01:25:34 AM »
I don't go to Chiropractors and I also don't go to Faith Healers or Hoodoo Fortune Tellers. They are all pretty much the same thing.
If you don't go, then how do you know?

To the OP, the most cringe worthy part of this story is the FIL. I sure hope he can afford to lose this much money.
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Dabnasty

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2018, 09:32:49 AM »
Is the name "Maximized Living" involved in this million dollar scheme?

I had an x-ray and a few adjustments at one of those places and they were clearly promoting the "Chiropractors are magic healers" view. I even went to a cancer "educational" event after I had realized how bad it was - because there was free food. That's when I saw who their clientele was; mostly middle aged to elderly overweight women who were looking for something to fix all their problems. Prepaying thousands for 2-3 adjustments/week.

ms

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2018, 12:20:25 PM »
I fell for that kind of chiropractic care. The guy did our x-rays and clearly mine was worse than my child's and so he preyed on my emotions and said that with his treatment we can avoid my kid becoming as bad as me. So we prepaid thousands of dollars and went to treatments 2-3x a week for however long. It was an assembly line. He had three tables set up with a half wall divider between, an electronic system that called your name and table number. He would spend <5 mins with each patient and send them on their way. It took a few months that I realized that it was just a sales technique and it was not so much about our health.

Now I go to a chiropractor whenever I get tightness in my lower back and I come back on my schedule. This new guy is very easy going and only if the adjustment was particularly difficult will he suggest to come back sooner than I normally would.

boarder42

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2018, 12:43:35 PM »
i'm more interested in this school and how long it takes to get this degree - if i can get a CP degree and become a millionaire in one year i can be a billionaire fairly quickly - assuming i earn 1MM and invest 900k per year start at -240k ---- lets see here. i only have to work at it 50 years - but if whatever they are doing can be replicated each year i can do it over and over so one year my income is 1MM the next 2MM so now my contributions to my investments grow by 1MM per year now we're looking at 30 years til i'm living like the sultaine of brunei. 

man all you nay sayers should really re-evaluate this- i cant believe more people arent requesting to go to this school. 
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Just Joe

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2018, 12:56:47 PM »
You can be our test case. Let's reconvene in a year and discuss your outlook on the method to millions. ;)

Dabnasty

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2018, 01:39:56 PM »
I fell for that kind of chiropractic care. The guy did our x-rays and clearly mine was worse than my child's and so he preyed on my emotions and said that with his treatment we can avoid my kid becoming as bad as me. So we prepaid thousands of dollars and went to treatments 2-3x a week for however long. It was an assembly line. He had three tables set up with a half wall divider between, an electronic system that called your name and table number. He would spend <5 mins with each patient and send them on their way. It took a few months that I realized that it was just a sales technique and it was not so much about our health.

Now I go to a chiropractor whenever I get tightness in my lower back and I come back on my schedule. This new guy is very easy going and only if the adjustment was particularly difficult will he suggest to come back sooner than I normally would.

That's the one, right down to the three tables with wall dividers. They even told my girlfriend that her cancer was 'probably' because of that subluxation in her spine.

I almost felt bad for the chiropractor too because she was young and seemed to sincerely believe what she was saying. On the other hand she's the one making money off of it, so screw her.

BabyShark

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2018, 02:06:16 PM »
Ugh yes, please update us on this

Mac_MacGyver

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2018, 04:01:38 AM »
OP do you get to design your own home or will they design the home?

frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2018, 07:52:38 AM »
I fell for that kind of chiropractic care. The guy did our x-rays and clearly mine was worse than my child's and so he preyed on my emotions and said that with his treatment we can avoid my kid becoming as bad as me. So we prepaid thousands of dollars and went to treatments 2-3x a week for however long. It was an assembly line. He had three tables set up with a half wall divider between, an electronic system that called your name and table number. He would spend <5 mins with each patient and send them on their way. It took a few months that I realized that it was just a sales technique and it was not so much about our health.

Now I go to a chiropractor whenever I get tightness in my lower back and I come back on my schedule. This new guy is very easy going and only if the adjustment was particularly difficult will he suggest to come back sooner than I normally would.

That's the one, right down to the three tables with wall dividers. They even told my girlfriend that her cancer was 'probably' because of that subluxation in her spine.

I almost felt bad for the chiropractor too because she was young and seemed to sincerely believe what she was saying. On the other hand she's the one making money off of it, so screw her.

This is 100% something my sis and her husband would think/say. I get feeling conflicted because they’re so earnest in their beliefs....  but like you said, they’re making money off fear mongering (at best! At worst they are gambling with peoples lives if you’re telling a cancer patient to forego the advice of their oncologist because Medicine Bad, Holistic Good.) I do not think the university teaches that crap, I think it was pumped into my BIL by the special program he took part in. Genius really, when you think about it... they have convinced these kids that it’s not a scam to solicit customers off the street and convince them to spend $1500 on a preventative care package because they’ve been brainwashed into thinking they are literally saving lives with chiropractic.

I mean, you want to act like a real doctor who heals and you want to have chiropractic seen as a form of medicine... but I’m trying to imagine my gynecologist passing out flyers on the side of the road to convince people they need weekly Pap smears instead of every year, and I just can’t visualize it....
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frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2018, 07:58:28 AM »
OP do you get to design your own home or will they design the home?

Good question!! Also will I need to pay anything to live in this dream home or am I now a kept woman? Kept by my brother in law (since that’s not weird or anything)
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penguintroopers

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2018, 03:43:08 PM »
Wow. OP, assuming you'll see your family for holidays, etc - prepare for drama. Popcorn, lots of it. Maybe 4th of July, definitely Thanksgiving, and increasing chances in between.

I'd love to see some updates from the OP later in the year.
It would be awesome if their plan works out and the whole family is rolling in dough, but... yeah, don't forget that popcorn.

Posting to follow as well. I foresee implosion when the practice isn't actually open until August, and a very ugly Thanksgiving when the dad is wondering when the couple will actually start making payments.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2018, 05:26:29 PM »
Well, apparently it is possible to make a million are year as a chiropractor. It looks like medicare pays $23.80 per treatment, so you just need to do 42,000 treatments per year. That works out to ~21 treatments per hour for a 2,000 hour year. Of course, it would be better to up that to closer to ~30 treatments per hour so you have time to spend with the Department of Health and Human Services when they come knocking on your door for medicare fraud.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/04/29/medicare-data-chiropractors-reimbursements/7720741/

Apple_Tango

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2018, 02:27:22 PM »
I was listening to Dave ramsey today and heard a conversation relevant to this discussion about the debt vs earnings of chiropractors. The quote that comes at the end is “if I were in your shoes there is no possible way I would go into debt $180,000 to be a chiropractor”. Now we all know that Dave is a zero debt guy so maybe you can take that with a grain of salt. But the fact that your relatives are using a business loan to pay their rent???? Seems suspect.

https://youtu.be/xU3l7Ylx1CU
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 02:37:33 PM by Apple_Tango »
It's a lateral freeze down during the melt up.  Soon to be followed by the transverse falling bounce and the transient index inversion short, both of which are also strong sell signals in this buyer's market.

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2018, 03:20:54 PM »
Been following your other thread (re: your deadbeat roommate) and all I can think is DON'T LET THEM MOVE IN WITH YOU WHEN THEY CRASH AND BURN!!!!! because I predict they will expect you (aka BIL Moneybags) to bail them out. Because you're such a nice guy and helped out your friend for all those years. And now that she's moved out you have all this extra room so why wouldn't you let them move in for awhile? Because they WILL be millionaires soon you know.

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frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2018, 05:58:41 PM »
Been following your other thread (re: your deadbeat roommate) and all I can think is DON'T LET THEM MOVE IN WITH YOU WHEN THEY CRASH AND BURN!!!!! because I predict they will expect you (aka BIL Moneybags) to bail them out. Because you're such a nice guy and helped out your friend for all those years. And now that she's moved out you have all this extra room so why wouldn't you let them move in for awhile? Because they WILL be millionaires soon you know.

DON'T DO IT!

HAHAHA!! More like SIL Moneybags, but close enough. Hey who knows, maybe my karmic retribution for the roommate situation will be my sis and BIL striking it rich and someone will toss some cash MY way for a change ;)
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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2018, 06:22:08 PM »
I have went to chiropractors for years since being in 7 car accidents by the time I was 30. The type you describe are what gives the profession a bad name. A reputable one will spend time with you and tell you that you will know when you need to come back.  Also a reputable chiropractor will stick to their expertise which is not curing cancer, etc.  I have moved a lot so have had to change doctors and all I have been to have done well but I doubt they were millionaires young. No doubt if smart with their $ that they become ones eventually.   My chiropractor in general sees 4 patients an hour. If you need more time he gives it to you.  Some people take less time to adjust depending on what the issue is.  I sure hope the FIL has the $ to waste. I can't believe they aren't working now but spending the $ they should be using to open their business.

Accidental Miser

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2018, 06:27:03 PM »
Been following your other thread (re: your deadbeat roommate) and all I can think is DON'T LET THEM MOVE IN WITH YOU WHEN THEY CRASH AND BURN!!!!! because I predict they will expect you (aka BIL Moneybags) to bail them out. Because you're such a nice guy and helped out your friend for all those years. And now that she's moved out you have all this extra room so why wouldn't you let them move in for awhile? Because they WILL be millionaires soon you know.

DON'T DO IT!

This.  They are headed for ruin.

BlueHouse

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2018, 06:36:31 PM »
oh yeah, definitely can become a millionaire within a few years.  I went to Chiropractors for about 20 years and they really helped my neck and back pain.  When I moved to Atlanta, there was a Chiropractor every place you look, all of whom graduated from Life College.  Life also offers degrees in nutrition, so it makes sense that just about every Chiropractic grad is also a nutrition expert/enthusiast. 
Life college obviously teaches marketing because every Life Chiropractor that I've gone to had the same exact spiel.  I didn't mind it, it worked for my pain.  The spiel was always that I needed 3-4 times per week, tapering down to 1xweek until I could finally go on maintenance at 1x/month.  It seemed to coincide with what my insurance paid.  Once I realized that most Life DCs couldn't go off script, it started to annoy me.  I knew what I needed and when I needed it -- and some were okay with that and others really couldn't deal with it.   I also found that every DC had their favorite "toys" to loosen you up until they could adjust you -- then you just find a doc whose toys you like.  I finally found one who had a massage therapist on staff (and I could get insurance to pay for massages).  The regular massages taught me that my pain was from muscle tension.  Turns out that ibuprofen immediatlely cures my headaches!  And regular stretching/exercise and hydration avoids neck and headaches all together.  I'm now convinced that chiropractors aren't for me -- I could have saved a lot of money if I had known earlier. 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2018, 05:33:26 AM »
HAHAHA!! More like SIL Moneybags, but close enough. Hey who knows, maybe my karmic retribution for the roommate situation will be my sis and BIL striking it rich and someone will toss some cash MY way for a change ;)

oops, sorry for the mixup! My experience with FI has been that the wealthier I get the more friends and family expect ME to toss cash their way. Like you, I have an excess of empathy and am too happy to help. Learn from mistakes! I still enjoy giving and helping but now I have very firm boundaries. I give what I want to give and no more.
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frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2018, 08:28:20 AM »
oh yeah, definitely can become a millionaire within a few years.  I went to Chiropractors for about 20 years and they really helped my neck and back pain.  When I moved to Atlanta, there was a Chiropractor every place you look, all of whom graduated from Life College.  Life also offers degrees in nutrition, so it makes sense that just about every Chiropractic grad is also a nutrition expert/enthusiast. 
Life college obviously teaches marketing because every Life Chiropractor that I've gone to had the same exact spiel.  I didn't mind it, it worked for my pain.  The spiel was always that I needed 3-4 times per week, tapering down to 1xweek until I could finally go on maintenance at 1x/month.  It seemed to coincide with what my insurance paid.  Once I realized that most Life DCs couldn't go off script, it started to annoy me.  I knew what I needed and when I needed it -- and some were okay with that and others really couldn't deal with it.   I also found that every DC had their favorite "toys" to loosen you up until they could adjust you -- then you just find a doc whose toys you like.  I finally found one who had a massage therapist on staff (and I could get insurance to pay for massages).  The regular massages taught me that my pain was from muscle tension.  Turns out that ibuprofen immediatlely cures my headaches!  And regular stretching/exercise and hydration avoids neck and headaches all together.  I'm now convinced that chiropractors aren't for me -- I could have saved a lot of money if I had known earlier.

I wasn't planning on disclosing the name of his college but since you tossed it out there, he also graduated from Life. I didn't realize they were also a nutrition/exercise school... makes sense why everything gets tangled together instead of keeping chiropractic treatment separate from all the other stuff.

Like many on this thread have echoed, I have (through my own research over the past year or so) figured out that chiropractors seem to fall into 2 separate schools of thought: new age and old school. Old School chiros seem more interested in treating injuries (example: when I fucked up my back so bad I couldn't walk and no one could help me until I saw a chiropractor), whereas these New Age chiros are interested in selling an idea.... eat well and avoid all traditional western medicine and opt for alternative, holistic methods instead. Eat vegan and get 3 adjustments a week and you'll never get cancer, never have issues, never experience disease or pain. It's a crock.

It's also dangerous because it's a profitable crock and you're preying on people's fears to get them to sign up for treatments that they might not even need. I mean, my BIL once told me that they adjusted a 3 day old infant one time! Get the fuck outta here.
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dude

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2018, 08:44:30 AM »
A chiro friend of mine with his own practice who's been in the biz for 20 years makes around $120k/year.  And it's very hard work on their own bodies.  His shoulders are totally fucked from adjusting people and he's said he probably only has another 5 years in him (he's 51).

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2018, 10:45:50 AM »
oh yeah, definitely can become a millionaire within a few years.  I went to Chiropractors for about 20 years and they really helped my neck and back pain.  When I moved to Atlanta, there was a Chiropractor every place you look, all of whom graduated from Life College.  Life also offers degrees in nutrition, so it makes sense that just about every Chiropractic grad is also a nutrition expert/enthusiast. 
Life college obviously teaches marketing because every Life Chiropractor that I've gone to had the same exact spiel.  I didn't mind it, it worked for my pain.  The spiel was always that I needed 3-4 times per week, tapering down to 1xweek until I could finally go on maintenance at 1x/month.  It seemed to coincide with what my insurance paid.  Once I realized that most Life DCs couldn't go off script, it started to annoy me.  I knew what I needed and when I needed it -- and some were okay with that and others really couldn't deal with it.   I also found that every DC had their favorite "toys" to loosen you up until they could adjust you -- then you just find a doc whose toys you like.  I finally found one who had a massage therapist on staff (and I could get insurance to pay for massages).  The regular massages taught me that my pain was from muscle tension.  Turns out that ibuprofen immediatlely cures my headaches!  And regular stretching/exercise and hydration avoids neck and headaches all together.  I'm now convinced that chiropractors aren't for me -- I could have saved a lot of money if I had known earlier.

I wasn't planning on disclosing the name of his college but since you tossed it out there, he also graduated from Life. I didn't realize they were also a nutrition/exercise school... makes sense why everything gets tangled together instead of keeping chiropractic treatment separate from all the other stuff.

Like many on this thread have echoed, I have (through my own research over the past year or so) figured out that chiropractors seem to fall into 2 separate schools of thought: new age and old school. Old School chiros seem more interested in treating injuries (example: when I fucked up my back so bad I couldn't walk and no one could help me until I saw a chiropractor), whereas these New Age chiros are interested in selling an idea.... eat well and avoid all traditional western medicine and opt for alternative, holistic methods instead. Eat vegan and get 3 adjustments a week and you'll never get cancer, never have issues, never experience disease or pain. It's a crock.

It's also dangerous because it's a profitable crock and you're preying on people's fears to get them to sign up for treatments that they might not even need. I mean, my BIL once told me that they adjusted a 3 day old infant one time! Get the fuck outta here.

As a chiropractor, I would disagree with this.  Chiropractic has traditionally taken a dogmatic approach, believing that the underlying issue of someone's problem is an "undisputed"/"non-verifiable" entity called the "vertebral subluxation."  (This had a lot to do with the conflict that the AMA had with the chiropractors decades ago.)  This is what you are referring to when you talk about the 'New Age' Chiros.  This has been around since the beginning of Chiropractic in North America.  I would submit to you that a high quality Chiropractor (or any other type of health care practitioner) is one that will take three things into account with every single patient they see:  1. What the patient brings (their need, their beliefs, their situation)  2.  What the scientific body of evidence says about the condition at hand  3.  The Chiropractor's own knowledge & expertise.  All three must be taken into account. 

Regarding treatment of infants, a couple of points:  I would submit to you that treating an infant would look very different than the treatment you would receive - for very obvious reasons.  From a scientific research perspective - infants are not part of the gold standard, double-blind research studies.  For ethical reasons, it just doesn't happen.  The bulk of research done with infants, are retrospective studies.  Physiotherapists will work with the neck of an infant if he/she does not turn their head in one direction like the other.  This care is done so that mother can have baby breastfeed from both breasts.  Don't see how a chiropractor working on an infant to help their joints and nerves function better isn't any different.  I can tell you that the mothers are happy that their infant can feed from both sides after the infants treatment - and then for some reason their child isn't as fussy and sleeps better.  I'd submit to you that there are times where a "trial of therapy" is worth it when dealing with infants and children.  Its when the interests of the patient are neglected - that is when we all need to demand better!

Chiropractic millionaires.  Yeah, absolutely.  The two reasons a chiropractor will not be a millionaire: 1.  They take part in lifestyle inflation like others do.  2.  They are exceptionally bad chiropractors.  (A chiro making a million per year - I would not have myself or my family treated by someone that treated me like a herd animal.  That smacks of a practitioner of having their own pocket book as greater interest than the care of their patients.) 

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2018, 11:35:55 AM »
The type you describe are what gives the profession a bad name. A reputable one will spend time with you and tell you that you will know when you need to come back.  Also a reputable chiropractor will stick to their expertise which is not curing cancer, etc.  I have moved a lot so have had to change doctors and all I have been to have done well but I doubt they were millionaires young. No doubt if smart with their $ that they become ones eventually.   My chiropractor in general sees 4 patients an hour. If you need more time he gives it to you.  Some people take less time to adjust depending on what the issue is.
I've had similar experience with chiropractors. At best, I could se a reputable chiropractor serving about 6 patients an hour - assuming the've organized the office well and have good staff handling as much of the paperwork and additional therapy as possible. If somehow they've managed to convince enough patients that they are the absolute best available and can charge $100 per adjustment (more than twice what I pay), they might gross $1 million in a year; but, I'm sure overhead would take a sizable chunch of it and that practice would take many years to build.

Dragonswan

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2018, 11:58:51 AM »
You say he's in a HCOL.  Is he in California where he intends to be Chiropractor to the stars?  Then I could see selling his services for 1K a visit as the latest celebrity accessory.  That'll get him to a million a year pretty quick.

frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2018, 08:26:00 AM »
oh yeah, definitely can become a millionaire within a few years.  I went to Chiropractors for about 20 years and they really helped my neck and back pain.  When I moved to Atlanta, there was a Chiropractor every place you look, all of whom graduated from Life College.  Life also offers degrees in nutrition, so it makes sense that just about every Chiropractic grad is also a nutrition expert/enthusiast. 
Life college obviously teaches marketing because every Life Chiropractor that I've gone to had the same exact spiel.  I didn't mind it, it worked for my pain.  The spiel was always that I needed 3-4 times per week, tapering down to 1xweek until I could finally go on maintenance at 1x/month.  It seemed to coincide with what my insurance paid.  Once I realized that most Life DCs couldn't go off script, it started to annoy me.  I knew what I needed and when I needed it -- and some were okay with that and others really couldn't deal with it.   I also found that every DC had their favorite "toys" to loosen you up until they could adjust you -- then you just find a doc whose toys you like.  I finally found one who had a massage therapist on staff (and I could get insurance to pay for massages).  The regular massages taught me that my pain was from muscle tension.  Turns out that ibuprofen immediatlely cures my headaches!  And regular stretching/exercise and hydration avoids neck and headaches all together.  I'm now convinced that chiropractors aren't for me -- I could have saved a lot of money if I had known earlier.

I wasn't planning on disclosing the name of his college but since you tossed it out there, he also graduated from Life. I didn't realize they were also a nutrition/exercise school... makes sense why everything gets tangled together instead of keeping chiropractic treatment separate from all the other stuff.

Like many on this thread have echoed, I have (through my own research over the past year or so) figured out that chiropractors seem to fall into 2 separate schools of thought: new age and old school. Old School chiros seem more interested in treating injuries (example: when I fucked up my back so bad I couldn't walk and no one could help me until I saw a chiropractor), whereas these New Age chiros are interested in selling an idea.... eat well and avoid all traditional western medicine and opt for alternative, holistic methods instead. Eat vegan and get 3 adjustments a week and you'll never get cancer, never have issues, never experience disease or pain. It's a crock.

It's also dangerous because it's a profitable crock and you're preying on people's fears to get them to sign up for treatments that they might not even need. I mean, my BIL once told me that they adjusted a 3 day old infant one time! Get the fuck outta here.

As a chiropractor, I would disagree with this.  Chiropractic has traditionally taken a dogmatic approach, believing that the underlying issue of someone's problem is an "undisputed"/"non-verifiable" entity called the "vertebral subluxation."  (This had a lot to do with the conflict that the AMA had with the chiropractors decades ago.)  This is what you are referring to when you talk about the 'New Age' Chiros.  This has been around since the beginning of Chiropractic in North America.  I would submit to you that a high quality Chiropractor (or any other type of health care practitioner) is one that will take three things into account with every single patient they see:  1. What the patient brings (their need, their beliefs, their situation)  2.  What the scientific body of evidence says about the condition at hand  3.  The Chiropractor's own knowledge & expertise.  All three must be taken into account. 

Regarding treatment of infants, a couple of points:  I would submit to you that treating an infant would look very different than the treatment you would receive - for very obvious reasons.  From a scientific research perspective - infants are not part of the gold standard, double-blind research studies.  For ethical reasons, it just doesn't happen.  The bulk of research done with infants, are retrospective studies.  Physiotherapists will work with the neck of an infant if he/she does not turn their head in one direction like the other.  This care is done so that mother can have baby breastfeed from both breasts.  Don't see how a chiropractor working on an infant to help their joints and nerves function better isn't any different.  I can tell you that the mothers are happy that their infant can feed from both sides after the infants treatment - and then for some reason their child isn't as fussy and sleeps better.  I'd submit to you that there are times where a "trial of therapy" is worth it when dealing with infants and children.  Its when the interests of the patient are neglected - that is when we all need to demand better!

Chiropractic millionaires.  Yeah, absolutely.  The two reasons a chiropractor will not be a millionaire: 1.  They take part in lifestyle inflation like others do.  2.  They are exceptionally bad chiropractors.  (A chiro making a million per year - I would not have myself or my family treated by someone that treated me like a herd animal.  That smacks of a practitioner of having their own pocket book as greater interest than the care of their patients.)

Thanks for the info, it's nice to hear from someone "in the biz." Sounds like re: infant care, you're talking about a situation where the infant presents with an issue (not being able to turn the head side to side, which is impairing its ability to feed.) What about a situation where an infant has no issues, and the chiro is telling a new mother that if she does not start her infant on chiropractic care, they could grow up to have all sorts of health issues... so she believes that by doing this she is essentially ensuring a path to a healthy life for the child? Something about this rubs me the wrong way from an ethical perspective. Feels a little like fear mongering to make a dollar. Would love your thoughts, though.

Also, since you indicated you are a chiropractor, are you familiar with programs like the one I discussed my BIL taking part of? Extracurricular to the university and pumping them full of ideologies about how chiropractic is the save-all for every disease, and teaching them how to graduate and open a practice and become millionaires by selling their services. From what I've read, it sounds like this program isn't specific to his college, but is part of a national network of similar programs at other schools.

Lastly, an update for everyone else re: finances (since that's what started this whole thread.) Sis and BIL came to town yesterday and my sis had a conversation with my father about the guilt she has that he paid for her to get her Master's and she isn't using it. My father said he's not worried about that, but he is worried about the huge amount of debt they're getting themselves in and doesn't understand why they can't get jobs until the practice is over. She said they don't expect to make any real money until August (1 month after they open, which to me seems ambitious...) and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?
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ms

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2018, 08:32:44 AM »
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.

Just Joe

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2018, 08:43:03 AM »
You mean wishing for money is a viable answer? I'll have to try that... ;)

I would imagine God probably has bigger fish to fry than two comfortably well off folks who just don't want to get jobs.

Beard N Bones

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2018, 10:39:50 AM »
As a chiropractor, I would disagree with this.  Chiropractic has traditionally taken a dogmatic approach, believing that the underlying issue of someone's problem is an "undisputed"/"non-verifiable" entity called the "vertebral subluxation."  (This had a lot to do with the conflict that the AMA had with the chiropractors decades ago.)  This is what you are referring to when you talk about the 'New Age' Chiros.  This has been around since the beginning of Chiropractic in North America.  I would submit to you that a high quality Chiropractor (or any other type of health care practitioner) is one that will take three things into account with every single patient they see:  1. What the patient brings (their need, their beliefs, their situation)  2.  What the scientific body of evidence says about the condition at hand  3.  The Chiropractor's own knowledge & expertise.  All three must be taken into account. 

Regarding treatment of infants, a couple of points:  I would submit to you that treating an infant would look very different than the treatment you would receive - for very obvious reasons.  From a scientific research perspective - infants are not part of the gold standard, double-blind research studies.  For ethical reasons, it just doesn't happen.  The bulk of research done with infants, are retrospective studies.  Physiotherapists will work with the neck of an infant if he/she does not turn their head in one direction like the other.  This care is done so that mother can have baby breastfeed from both breasts.  Don't see how a chiropractor working on an infant to help their joints and nerves function better isn't any different.  I can tell you that the mothers are happy that their infant can feed from both sides after the infants treatment - and then for some reason their child isn't as fussy and sleeps better.  I'd submit to you that there are times where a "trial of therapy" is worth it when dealing with infants and children.  Its when the interests of the patient are neglected - that is when we all need to demand better!

Chiropractic millionaires.  Yeah, absolutely.  The two reasons a chiropractor will not be a millionaire: 1.  They take part in lifestyle inflation like others do.  2.  They are exceptionally bad chiropractors.  (A chiro making a million per year - I would not have myself or my family treated by someone that treated me like a herd animal.  That smacks of a practitioner of having their own pocket book as greater interest than the care of their patients.)

Thanks for the info, it's nice to hear from someone "in the biz." Sounds like re: infant care, you're talking about a situation where the infant presents with an issue (not being able to turn the head side to side, which is impairing its ability to feed.) What about a situation where an infant has no issues, and the chiro is telling a new mother that if she does not start her infant on chiropractic care, they could grow up to have all sorts of health issues... so she believes that by doing this she is essentially ensuring a path to a healthy life for the child? Something about this rubs me the wrong way from an ethical perspective. Feels a little like fear mongering to make a dollar. Would love your thoughts, though.
I'm on the same page as you.  Fear mongering rubs me the wrong way as well - regardless of the age, infant or elderly.  Preventative care, however, is worth while.  That is why my family gets periodic dental and eye check ups, even though we have no associated teeth or eye symptoms.  What kind of preventative/periodic Chiropractic care is reasonable?  Once again, it depends on the individual!  I have some patients that function, feel, and move best with treatment once every 3 weeks (they often refuse to exercise, eat healthy, have high levels of chronic stress, have poor relationships, and generally abuse themselves), others are good with preventive care once a year.  Figuring out what a patient does best with is essential, as everyone is different.  Most people don't take care of themselves and so preventative care doesn't come natural.  I'd guess that is why fear mongering tactics are used. 

Also, since you indicated you are a chiropractor, are you familiar with programs like the one I discussed my BIL taking part of? Extracurricular to the university and pumping them full of ideologies about how chiropractic is the save-all for every disease, and teaching them how to graduate and open a practice and become millionaires by selling their services. From what I've read, it sounds like this program isn't specific to his college, but is part of a national network of similar programs at other schools.
Yes.  They are called "Patient Management" or "Practice Management" courses/programs.  Its essentially learning how to get sales.  I'm not keen on the tactics used.  I'd say that this found more in the US than in other parts of the world.  In Canada (where I practice), these type of programs/systems aren't as common.  I'd go so far as to say that our standards of care are higher here.  (Even higher yet in Switzerland, as Chiropractors are seen as equals to specialists - think ortho surgeons or neurologists.)
I prefer to listen to what the patient wants/needs, treat appropriately (see earlier the 3 previous essentials needed in good care), and educate about health.  My patient's needs are priority #1.   

Lastly, an update for everyone else re: finances (since that's what started this whole thread.) Sis and BIL came to town yesterday and my sis had a conversation with my father about the guilt she has that he paid for her to get her Master's and she isn't using it. My father said he's not worried about that, but he is worried about the huge amount of debt they're getting themselves in and doesn't understand why they can't get jobs until the practice is over. She said they don't expect to make any real money until August (1 month after they open, which to me seems ambitious...) and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?
I love the optimism.  But financially speaking, it sounds like they are in for some tough lessons.  Namely, if you spend more than you make, you are in deep trouble.  As you've so beautifully described, they are head-in-the-sand, spending like they've already made it.  For most people, having this type of mentality doesn't turn out well for them in the end.  I hope it is different for your sister and BIL and they find success - and I'd be happy if they would be able to escape the financial world-of-hurt they seem to be heading towards.
Question:  WHY ARE THEIR PARENTS ENABLING THEIR BAD FINANCIAL CHOICES?! 

frugalecon

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2018, 10:46:15 AM »
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.

I might have been tempted to snarkily hypothesize that any deity that exists might think he provided via the opportunity to earn a living after finishing a degree program. Or maybe a unicorn will prance up, bearing bags of cash. Or the teller window at Bank of Dad will open for business.

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2018, 11:14:38 AM »
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.

I might have been tempted to snarkily hypothesize that any deity that exists might think he provided via the opportunity to earn a living after finishing a degree program. Or maybe a unicorn will prance up, bearing bags of cash. Or the teller window at Bank of Dad will open for business.

I remember hearing a story about a person with that mentality, who relied on divine intervention instead of taking advantage of opportunities that may well have been provided by the same deity.

A man woke up to find out that the river had flooded and was washing away his house. He climbed to the roof to avoid drowning. Being a man of intense faith, he prayed to his deity for aid as the water rose higher and higher.

Along came a person clinging to a log. "Come with me," said the other survivor, "and we can kick toward the shore and escape."

"No," said the man, "My deity will save me."

"Suit yourself," said the swimmer, and continued moving toward the shore. The water rose higher, and soon the roof was covered and the man was in water up to his waist. Along came a neighbor in a boat who invited the man to jump in with the neighbor and family.

"No thanks," said the man, "My deity will save me." So the neighbors piloted the boat away in search of a safe place, rescuing people and animals as they went.

Finally the man was in water up to his neck and felt the house beneath him crumble. He swam and was able to keep his head above water. A military helicopter appeared, and a rope ladder spilled out of it. "Take hold of me," said the soldier who descended the ladder, "and the helicopter will take you to dry land." Again, the man of faith refused. So the helicopter team left.

"When will my deity rescue me?" The man of faith mused as he felt his strength begin to leave him. His head eventually slipped under the water, and he drowned.

Upon dying, the man of faith was pleased and gratified to find out that he'd chosen the right religion. His deity and glorious afterlife were awaiting him. "Yet," said his deity, "I notice that you are troubled by something. What is it?"

"Only this," said the man of faith. "All my life I believed in You and lived according to Your wishes as well as I could. But in my time of distress I called upon You for aid, and although I am in no way disappointed in Your kingdom or in meeting You in person, I am wondering why You allowed me to drown instead of rescuing me, particularly given that the atheists were wrong and You have been real this whole time."

"What are you talking about?" His deity answered. "I sent you a log, a boat, and a helicopter."
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frugalfoothills

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2018, 12:10:31 PM »
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.

I might have been tempted to snarkily hypothesize that any deity that exists might think he provided via the opportunity to earn a living after finishing a degree program. Or maybe a unicorn will prance up, bearing bags of cash. Or the teller window at Bank of Dad will open for business.

I remember hearing a story about a person with that mentality, who relied on divine intervention instead of taking advantage of opportunities that may well have been provided by the same deity.

A man woke up to find out that the river had flooded and was washing away his house. He climbed to the roof to avoid drowning. Being a man of intense faith, he prayed to his deity for aid as the water rose higher and higher.

Along came a person clinging to a log. "Come with me," said the other survivor, "and we can kick toward the shore and escape."

"No," said the man, "My deity will save me."

"Suit yourself," said the swimmer, and continued moving toward the shore. The water rose higher, and soon the roof was covered and the man was in water up to his waist. Along came a neighbor in a boat who invited the man to jump in with the neighbor and family.

"No thanks," said the man, "My deity will save me." So the neighbors piloted the boat away in search of a safe place, rescuing people and animals as they went.

Finally the man was in water up to his neck and felt the house beneath him crumble. He swam and was able to keep his head above water. A military helicopter appeared, and a rope ladder spilled out of it. "Take hold of me," said the soldier who descended the ladder, "and the helicopter will take you to dry land." Again, the man of faith refused. So the helicopter team left.

"When will my deity rescue me?" The man of faith mused as he felt his strength begin to leave him. His head eventually slipped under the water, and he drowned.

Upon dying, the man of faith was pleased and gratified to find out that he'd chosen the right religion. His deity and glorious afterlife were awaiting him. "Yet," said his deity, "I notice that you are troubled by something. What is it?"

"Only this," said the man of faith. "All my life I believed in You and lived according to Your wishes as well as I could. But in my time of distress I called upon You for aid, and although I am in no way disappointed in Your kingdom or in meeting You in person, I am wondering why You allowed me to drown instead of rescuing me, particularly given that the atheists were wrong and You have been real this whole time."

"What are you talking about?" His deity answered. "I sent you a log, a boat, and a helicopter."


My father used this exact story in his response to her, how funny. Well, this story with a couple variations... either way, message was the same. Didn't seem to take root.

Just so everyone is aware: my parents haven't contributed a dime to this endeavor. They paid for their wedding last summer and that's the last money they will be spending on these two. It's HIS parents who are currently bankrolling them... the business loan is a personal loan from his father. Apparently his father is the one that encouraged them to borrow an extra $30-$40k on top of what they felt they needed to open the office to account for "personal expenses," so obviously the questionable decision-making starts from the top down here. My family, on the other hand, is super confused and concerned about this.

Also from the FIL (lender of the cash): he advised my BIL that "any extra you have left over in the loan can be put toward your student loan payments!" I fail to see how using borrowed money from FIL to pay for borrowed money to the government is not still BORROWING MONEY. Doesn't matter whether you owe dad or Uncle Sam, you still owe SOMEONE...
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MgoSam

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Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2018, 01:30:22 PM »


Also from the FIL (lender of the cash): he advised my BIL that "any extra you have left over in the loan can be put toward your student loan payments!" I fail to see how using borrowed money from FIL to pay for borrowed money to the government is not still BORROWING MONEY. Doesn't matter whether you owe dad or Uncle Sam, you still owe SOMEONE...

I've found that people like this are the type that are so used to kicking the can down the road.

A few years ago I spent Thanksgiving with one of my best friend's family, they live in a rural part of the state that is a few hours drive and I loved their house. A year later I was invited back and by this point the parents had decided that I was more or less 'family,' because they were much more free with their words. I heard from the mother about how they still owed a ton on their houses (they are both in their 60s and owned the home for 30+ years) because they keep re-financing to pay for new toys and constant renovations.