The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: Laura33 on April 25, 2017, 05:55:26 AM
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Last night's House Hunters International, from the wife: " Simon's definitely a saver. He'll add up, like, how much we're over budget and then multiply it by the entire year."
Ummm, yeah. What else would you do?
Who's surprised to hear that they picked the most expensive option?
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Last night's House Hunters International, from the wife: " Simon's definitely a saver. He'll add up, like, how much we're over budget and then multiply it by the entire year."
Ummm, yeah. What else would you do?
Who's surprised to hear that they picked the most expensive option?
Technically they chose their house before the show was filmed, so we don't know if they chose the most or least expensive house they actually considered, versus what the show depicts them considering.
Personally, I always laugh at the people with seemingly huge budgets that then chose a house significantly cheaper than the other two on-budget houses. So they say "our budget is $1M" and then look at a house for $1.1M, $979k, and then buy one for $825k. Yeah, your budget really wasn't $1M was it?
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You know they have to be in escrow before they film the show, right?
I am an admitted HGTV addict. I DRD a bunch of stuff and use it to amuse MIL, who has ALZ and lives with us. Left to her own devices, she'd blare Court TV all day, and I can't stand the shouting. I also can't stand over privileged whinging, so no House Hunters at this house. OTOH, makeover shows? Even if they're clearly staged? Bring it On!
BTW, sometimes shows give clues to their actual addresses. When they do, I Google them. Last season on Flip or Flop (train wreck that currently is), they did two houses that were actually side-by-side, but of course that was never mentioned. It's all entertainment, folks.
LOL, I see Chris22 and I are thinking along the same lines at the same time.
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Last night's House Hunters International, from the wife: " Simon's definitely a saver. He'll add up, like, how much we're over budget and then multiply it by the entire year."
Ummm, yeah. What else would you do?
Who's surprised to hear that they picked the most expensive option?
Technically they chose their house before the show was filmed, so we don't know if they chose the most or least expensive house they actually considered, versus what the show depicts them considering.
Personally, I always laugh at the people with seemingly huge budgets that then chose a house significantly cheaper than the other two on-budget houses. So they say "our budget is $1M" and then look at a house for $1.1M, $979k, and then buy one for $825k. Yeah, your budget really wasn't $1M was it?
Why does that mean their budget wasn't really a million (ignoring the fact that it was staged anyway)? Budget is a projected spend, not actual spend. The last house we bought was about $60k lower than the max we would have paid for a house we really loved in the neighborhood we wanted and about $25k lower than the house we had under contract that fell through, but $20k over a house we had a handshake deal on that fell apart. Doesn't change what our budget was, which was the highest number we would have paid.
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Last night's House Hunters International, from the wife: " Simon's definitely a saver. He'll add up, like, how much we're over budget and then multiply it by the entire year."
Ummm, yeah. What else would you do?
Who's surprised to hear that they picked the most expensive option?
Technically they chose their house before the show was filmed, so we don't know if they chose the most or least expensive house they actually considered, versus what the show depicts them considering.
Personally, I always laugh at the people with seemingly huge budgets that then chose a house significantly cheaper than the other two on-budget houses. So they say "our budget is $1M" and then look at a house for $1.1M, $979k, and then buy one for $825k. Yeah, your budget really wasn't $1M was it?
Why does that mean their budget wasn't really a million (ignoring the fact that it was staged anyway)? Budget is a projected spend, not actual spend. The last house we bought was about $60k lower than the max we would have paid for a house we really loved in the neighborhood we wanted and about $25k lower than the house we had under contract that fell through, but $20k over a house we had a handshake deal on that fell apart. Doesn't change what our budget was, which was the highest number we would have paid.
Because you didn't go on a TV show after you bought it saying you were considering houses $60k more expensive.
Spending less than your max is one thing, spending less and then telling everyone on TV you were going to spend a lot more and then spending less is something different, in my opinion.
FWIW, I bought a house $65k less than our planned max as well.
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Ha! DH and I were looking at a cute little gut-job fixer for about $500k right before we got married. Then his dad died and we realized his mom has ALZ. We scrapped those plans and started looking for a bigger house to suit her needs. A perfect one came on the market for $800k. A bidding frenzy resulted in a $928k final price. What does it matter what our stated budget was?
Fortunately, each of our houses sold easily and for well over asking. Paying so much more "over budget" didn't really matter in the end.
BTW, when that first place went on the market, it sold for $605k, oy!
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I always laugh at them too. Its always odd to me when they have a stated budget but then never show a house that's actually within their budget. Or when they have a single income, one or two child family with a budget that seems to massively exceed realistic earnings for the one income. And while I like that most of them need space to "entertain" I wonder how many actually do that.
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Some of the international hunters have been in their houses for years! So when they see a house double their budget, it's because producers thought it would be cool for the audience to see.
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I find it very interesting to hear the deliberations between spouses. If you have a spendy spouse, it seems like you can usually keep him/her away from the super-expensive option by eliminating the lowest-price one first, making the middle price one look like a reasonable alternative.
It's remarkable to consider the difference between a $850,000 house and a $1,400,000 house, however. They really shouldn't be comparable. But the shows never focus on the reduced stress on the family of not having $2,500/month in extra mortgage payments when they opt to save money rather than bust the budget.
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Last night's House Hunters International, from the wife: " Simon's definitely a saver. He'll add up, like, how much we're over budget and then multiply it by the entire year."
Ummm, yeah. What else would you do?
Who's surprised to hear that they picked the most expensive option?
Technically they chose their house before the show was filmed, so we don't know if they chose the most or least expensive house they actually considered, versus what the show depicts them considering.
Personally, I always laugh at the people with seemingly huge budgets that then chose a house significantly cheaper than the other two on-budget houses. So they say "our budget is $1M" and then look at a house for $1.1M, $979k, and then buy one for $825k. Yeah, your budget really wasn't $1M was it?
Why does that mean their budget wasn't really a million (ignoring the fact that it was staged anyway)? Budget is a projected spend, not actual spend. The last house we bought was about $60k lower than the max we would have paid for a house we really loved in the neighborhood we wanted and about $25k lower than the house we had under contract that fell through, but $20k over a house we had a handshake deal on that fell apart. Doesn't change what our budget was, which was the highest number we would have paid.
Because you didn't go on a TV show after you bought it saying you were considering houses $60k more expensive.
Spending less than your max is one thing, spending less and then telling everyone on TV you were going to spend a lot more and then spending less is something different, in my opinion.
FWIW, I bought a house $65k less than our planned max as well.
Well, I guess the "budget" is more driven by which houses the producers want to show than what price houses the "hunters" actually considered when they bought their house, but if they did actually try to recreate something that looked like their actual house hunt, I would think the actual budget they were targeting would be the number to use, even if they ended up buying something cheaper. Guess it's irrelevant since the houses they "consider" are driven by what the producers want to show.
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My favorite part of those shows:
HUSBAND: "I sell used 8-track tapes"
WIFE: "And I hang potatoes in people's garages"
HUSBAND: Our budget is $950K
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My favorite part of those shows:
HUSBAND: "I sell used 8-track tapes"
WIFE: "And I hang potatoes in people's garages"
HUSBAND: Our budget is $950K
Inheritances, and equity in previous house / no mortgage on previous house.
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I've always thought the focus on high-dollar markets like Toronto was the reason the housing was so expensive.
There really isn't anything under $950,000 worth owning.
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Anyone tried to cross check any of these house prices on Zillow or elsewhere and see if the price tags were real?
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Anyone tried to cross check any of these house prices on Zillow or elsewhere and see if the price tags were real?
I've only ever had the interest and ability/knowledge to track one, and it was spot on. It was a little cottage right on the beach on Kauai, listed for $500k on the show and there was a Zillow listing reflected for the same. I actually think that was for the show Hawaii Life, but it's just HH for Hawaii.
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Anyone tried to cross check any of these house prices on Zillow or elsewhere and see if the price tags were real?
Yup. That's how I discovered that the houses on Flip or Flop referenced upthread are right next to each other. Did it again when Property Brothers did their B vs. B Vegas Flip Challenge. They kept referring to their properties by street name, so a little Zillow-fu sleuthing led me to the actual properties. Since the shows air so far after real-life events, I was able to see all of their work before it aired and figure out the winner based on the actual selling price, which was exactly the numbers reported when the show finally aired.
I also watch shows on DIY Network, an HGTV sibling. There's a restoration show that tapes near where I grew up. On one episode, I recognized the street as being two streets over from my first rental property. The numbers were the same, but I was surprised to discover that the home had a huge pool in the backyard. Despite showing lots of exterior shots, they completely avoided any angles that revealed the presence of a much larger than average pool in the back. Maybe the new owners are planning to remove it, or maybe the producers felt it wasn't germane, but it was a good reminder that you see what they choose to show you.
Back to Flip or Flop for a moment. We own rentals in So Cal, where the show is set. Our Realtor mentioned that she occasionally gets letters from them looking for distressed properties that are not yet on the market. That's how Tarek mysteriously comes across these "disasters".
Speaking of numbers, I read that initially Tarek and Christina were getting $10k per show, which doesn't seem that much. Of course they get the profits from the flip. Though commissions are always mentioned on the selling side, no details are offered. If they're earning full commissions on both ends of these deals, their paychecks are much fatter than 10k per show + the flip profits. Maybe that's how Christina pays for her "insane" wardrobe and ridiculously overpriced accessories. I notice that Tarek frequently wears the same clothes, when she never does. Easy to spot the more mustachian of the two, but only in terms of wardrobe, lol. Their ridiculously conspicuous consumption lifestyle constantly has me shaking my head. Apparently the eighties are still alive and well in Orange County.
I used to wonder if Chip Gaines was making commissions on the houses they feature, but since learning that the buyer must already have a house under contract, I don't think so.
Then there's Matt Blasaw, host of Vacation House For Free. Is he a realtor? Does he have a property management company that manages these rentals after renovation? No idea, but it certainly would add to his paycheck. What I like about his show is there is always a tight budget and compromises must be made. He flat out says, "We only have money to paint this, it will be fine as it is." So refreshing for a makeover show! Based on the way most of the HH-type shows run, one assumes the buyers have already identified a property, but on VHFF, I'm not sure.
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Anyone tried to cross check any of these house prices on Zillow or elsewhere and see if the price tags were real?
Yup. That's how I discovered that the houses on Flip or Flop referenced upthread are right next to each other. Did it again when Property Brothers did their B vs. B Vegas Flip Challenge. They kept referring to their properties by street name, so a little Zillow-fu sleuthing led me to the actual properties. Since the shows air so far after real-life events, I was able to see all of their work before it aired and figure out the winner based on the actual selling price, which was exactly the numbers reported when the show finally aired.
I also watch shows on DIY Network, an HGTV sibling. There's a restoration show that tapes near where I grew up. On one episode, I recognized the street as being two streets over from my first rental property. The numbers were the same, but I was surprised to discover that the home had a huge pool in the backyard. Despite showing lots of exterior shots, they completely avoided any angles that revealed the presence of a much larger than average pool in the back. Maybe the new owners are planning to remove it, or maybe the producers felt it wasn't germane, but it was a good reminder that you see what they choose to show you.
Back to Flip or Flop for a moment. We own rentals in So Cal, where the show is set. Our Realtor mentioned that she occasionally gets letters from them looking for distressed properties that are not yet on the market. That's how Tarek mysteriously comes across these "disasters".
Speaking of numbers, I read that initially Tarek and Christina were getting $10k per show, which doesn't seem that much. Of course they get the profits from the flip. Though commissions are always mentioned on the selling side, no details are offered. If they're earning full commissions on both ends of these deals, their paychecks are much fatter than 10k per show + the flip profits. Maybe that's how Christina pays for her "insane" wardrobe and ridiculously overpriced accessories. I notice that Tarek frequently wears the same clothes, when she never does. Easy to spot the more mustachian of the two, but only in terms of wardrobe, lol. Their ridiculously conspicuous consumption lifestyle constantly has me shaking my head. Apparently the eighties are still alive and well in Orange County.
I used to wonder if Chip Gaines was making commissions on the houses they feature, but since learning that the buyer must already have a house under contract, I don't think so.
Then there's Matt Blasaw, host of Vacation House For Free. Is he a realtor? Does he have a property management company that manages these rentals after renovation? No idea, but it certainly would add to his paycheck. What I like about his show is there is always a tight budget and compromises must be made. He flat out says, "We only have money to paint this, it will be fine as it is." So refreshing for a makeover show! Based on the way most of the HH-type shows run, one assumes the buyers have already identified a property, but on VHFF, I'm not sure.
Hate to break it to you, but VHFF budgets aren't real either. I looked into casting for the show and the deal was you had to have money to buy the property and do renovations, but the application claimed that the show would pay to make the reno looked the way they want. Maybe this was just to encourage people to apply though.
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The allergy clinic has a mandatory half-hour wait every time you get a needle, and they have some kind of TV real estate channel playing constantly. There appears to be a show called "Tiny Houses", another called "Love it or List it", and all kinds of others. But the severe anti-Mustachianism of most of the shows makes me cringe. I don't watch the TV-- I generally bring something to do with my hands instead-- but I can't help hearing the bullshit emanating from the speakers.
I was sitting across from a man and his wife during an episode of "Tiny Houses" when the main characters were trying to build or buy land in a rural area and put a micro-home on it. The first question out of the guy's mouth was: "Why don't they just buy a trailer?" His wife immediately started pointing out the advantages of manufactured homes, which aren't limited to the flimsy tornado magnets of the 70's and 80's anymore. Looks like I'm not the only one not sold on the "tiny house with double the price per square foot" concept.
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The allergy clinic has a mandatory half-hour wait every time you get a needle, and they have some kind of TV real estate channel playing constantly. There appears to be a show called "Tiny Houses", another called "Love it or List it", and all kinds of others. But the severe anti-Mustachianism of most of the shows makes me cringe. I don't watch the TV-- I generally bring something to do with my hands instead-- but I can't help hearing the bullshit emanating from the speakers.
You need one of these - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006GD9CE/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_1_w
I've used it in waiting rooms where I can't get away from the TV, or it's just too damn loud.
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Anyone tried to cross check any of these house prices on Zillow or elsewhere and see if the price tags were real?
Yup. That's how I discovered that the houses on Flip or Flop referenced upthread are right next to each other. Did it again when Property Brothers did their B vs. B Vegas Flip Challenge. They kept referring to their properties by street name, so a little Zillow-fu sleuthing led me to the actual properties. Since the shows air so far after real-life events, I was able to see all of their work before it aired and figure out the winner based on the actual selling price, which was exactly the numbers reported when the show finally aired.
I also watch shows on DIY Network, an HGTV sibling. There's a restoration show that tapes near where I grew up. On one episode, I recognized the street as being two streets over from my first rental property. The numbers were the same, but I was surprised to discover that the home had a huge pool in the backyard. Despite showing lots of exterior shots, they completely avoided any angles that revealed the presence of a much larger than average pool in the back. Maybe the new owners are planning to remove it, or maybe the producers felt it wasn't germane, but it was a good reminder that you see what they choose to show you.
Back to Flip or Flop for a moment. We own rentals in So Cal, where the show is set. Our Realtor mentioned that she occasionally gets letters from them looking for distressed properties that are not yet on the market. That's how Tarek mysteriously comes across these "disasters".
Speaking of numbers, I read that initially Tarek and Christina were getting $10k per show, which doesn't seem that much. Of course they get the profits from the flip. Though commissions are always mentioned on the selling side, no details are offered. If they're earning full commissions on both ends of these deals, their paychecks are much fatter than 10k per show + the flip profits. Maybe that's how Christina pays for her "insane" wardrobe and ridiculously overpriced accessories. I notice that Tarek frequently wears the same clothes, when she never does. Easy to spot the more mustachian of the two, but only in terms of wardrobe, lol. Their ridiculously conspicuous consumption lifestyle constantly has me shaking my head. Apparently the eighties are still alive and well in Orange County.
I used to wonder if Chip Gaines was making commissions on the houses they feature, but since learning that the buyer must already have a house under contract, I don't think so.
Then there's Matt Blasaw, host of Vacation House For Free. Is he a realtor? Does he have a property management company that manages these rentals after renovation? No idea, but it certainly would add to his paycheck. What I like about his show is there is always a tight budget and compromises must be made. He flat out says, "We only have money to paint this, it will be fine as it is." So refreshing for a makeover show! Based on the way most of the HH-type shows run, one assumes the buyers have already identified a property, but on VHFF, I'm not sure.
Hate to break it to you, but VHFF budgets aren't real either. I looked into casting for the show and the deal was you had to have money to buy the property and do renovations, but the application claimed that the show would pay to make the reno looked the way they want. Maybe this was just to encourage people to apply though.
Oh, come on, don't leave us hanging like that! More details! Spill it, please. Do you have a house picked out in advance? If not, does Blashaw act as the realtor? Enquiring minds want to know!
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Vacation home for free always made me laugh. There was questionable math going on. "You can rent this for 10 weeks a year for $1000 or 5 weeks a year for $2000"
Well who wouldn't pick the second? But with no research on market demand.
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Vacation home for free always made me laugh. There was questionable math going on. "You can rent this for 10 weeks a year for $1000 or 5 weeks a year for $2000"
Well who wouldn't pick the second? But with no research on market demand.
Actually this show does what Income Property used to do. (Is that one gone? I liked it.) They post an update at the end of the show. On a recent show, a NJ couple bought in FL. It said they liked the house so much they pulled up stakes and moved into the vacation house permanently.
As to your specific reference, I think I've seen 'em all and don't recall that one. Which episode was it? And "no research"? You sure about that?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not pretending reality TV is anything other than the mindless entertainment it is, but I'm okay with a little evidence in support of the facts.
And to everyone who snarks on the tiny house fad, I am so with you! I always wonder how bad it's going to look when the stylists are gone and people move all their crap in. Or worse stil, leave all the crap that won't' fit inside strewn about outside. I love small spaces, but the tiny houses on wheels, in particular, are a ridiculous choice for most people.
That said, I really have to give Ana White credit for the thoughtful design of this house, which seems more suited to its owner's specific situation. The video demonstrates her creative problem solving skills and cost consciousness. AFAIK, she didn't built this for a reality show, but for the real world in Alaska.
http://www.ana-white.com/2017/01/open-concept-rustic-modern-tiny-house-photo-tour-and-sources
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Vacation home for free always made me laugh. There was questionable math going on. "You can rent this for 10 weeks a year for $1000 or 5 weeks a year for $2000"
Well who wouldn't pick the second? But with no research on market demand.
Actually this show does what Income Property used to do. (Is that one gone? I liked it.) They post an update at the end of the show. On a recent show, a NJ couple bought in FL. It said they liked the house so much they pulled up stakes and moved into the vacation house permanently.
As to your specific reference, I think I've seen 'em all and don't recall that one. Which episode was it? And "no research"? You sure about that?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not pretending reality TV is anything other than the mindless entertainment it is, but I'm okay with a little evidence in support of the facts.
And to everyone who snarks on the tiny house fad, I am so with you! I always wonder how bad it's going to look when the stylists are gone and people move all their crap in. Or worse stil, leave all the crap that won't' fit inside strewn about outside. I love small spaces, but the tiny houses on wheels, in particular, are a ridiculous choice for most people.
That said, I really have to give Ana White credit for the thoughtful design of this house, which seems more suited to its owner's specific situation. The video demonstrates her creative problem solving skills and cost consciousness. AFAIK, she didn't built this for a reality show, but for the real world in Alaska.
http://www.ana-white.com/2017/01/open-concept-rustic-modern-tiny-house-photo-tour-and-sources
What a neat design! I think they made effective use of the space.
There's a lifestyle well suited to tiny houses on wheels, but the population segment for whom they make sense is very narrow. It's about on par with the full-time RV concept: great if you're FIRE and into it, not a good fit otherwise especially if you're trying to earn a living or raise a family. There's some stuff I'd miss if I lived in such a place. Indoor pets come to mind and so do long, lazy soaks in a bathtub.
When I see couples with small children who are used to 3000+ square feet trying to "downsize" into maybe a fifth of that, generally I wonder if there's a reason why they didn't field test the idea by, say, renting a cabin for a few months and living in it to see whether they could really function in such a small space especially with all the on-camera bickering that goes on. I start thinking that maybe they should bring the cameras by after the first three or four months to see how everyone is doing, because that could be some serious reality TV drama.
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Anyone tried to cross check any of these house prices on Zillow or elsewhere and see if the price tags were real?
Yup. That's how I discovered that the houses on Flip or Flop referenced upthread are right next to each other. Did it again when Property Brothers did their B vs. B Vegas Flip Challenge. They kept referring to their properties by street name, so a little Zillow-fu sleuthing led me to the actual properties. Since the shows air so far after real-life events, I was able to see all of their work before it aired and figure out the winner based on the actual selling price, which was exactly the numbers reported when the show finally aired.
I also watch shows on DIY Network, an HGTV sibling. There's a restoration show that tapes near where I grew up. On one episode, I recognized the street as being two streets over from my first rental property. The numbers were the same, but I was surprised to discover that the home had a huge pool in the backyard. Despite showing lots of exterior shots, they completely avoided any angles that revealed the presence of a much larger than average pool in the back. Maybe the new owners are planning to remove it, or maybe the producers felt it wasn't germane, but it was a good reminder that you see what they choose to show you.
Back to Flip or Flop for a moment. We own rentals in So Cal, where the show is set. Our Realtor mentioned that she occasionally gets letters from them looking for distressed properties that are not yet on the market. That's how Tarek mysteriously comes across these "disasters".
Speaking of numbers, I read that initially Tarek and Christina were getting $10k per show, which doesn't seem that much. Of course they get the profits from the flip. Though commissions are always mentioned on the selling side, no details are offered. If they're earning full commissions on both ends of these deals, their paychecks are much fatter than 10k per show + the flip profits. Maybe that's how Christina pays for her "insane" wardrobe and ridiculously overpriced accessories. I notice that Tarek frequently wears the same clothes, when she never does. Easy to spot the more mustachian of the two, but only in terms of wardrobe, lol. Their ridiculously conspicuous consumption lifestyle constantly has me shaking my head. Apparently the eighties are still alive and well in Orange County.
I used to wonder if Chip Gaines was making commissions on the houses they feature, but since learning that the buyer must already have a house under contract, I don't think so.
Then there's Matt Blasaw, host of Vacation House For Free. Is he a realtor? Does he have a property management company that manages these rentals after renovation? No idea, but it certainly would add to his paycheck. What I like about his show is there is always a tight budget and compromises must be made. He flat out says, "We only have money to paint this, it will be fine as it is." So refreshing for a makeover show! Based on the way most of the HH-type shows run, one assumes the buyers have already identified a property, but on VHFF, I'm not sure.
Hate to break it to you, but VHFF budgets aren't real either. I looked into casting for the show and the deal was you had to have money to buy the property and do renovations, but the application claimed that the show would pay to make the reno looked the way they want. Maybe this was just to encourage people to apply though.
Oh, come on, don't leave us hanging like that! More details! Spill it, please. Do you have a house picked out in advance? If not, does Blashaw act as the realtor? Enquiring minds want to know!
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. We went through the initial application for casting, and in setting out the minimum criteria to be considered, they stated that we had to have money to purchase but that they would help pay for renovations to get the look they want. I can't remember exactly what the details were. Maybe the minimum for us was to be able to pay for the house and have $10k of cash available for renovations, but they would supplement up to $25k to get the look they want. Again, I'm not sure that they always supplemented the renovation budget and that might just have been to get people excited about applying. We ended up not finishing our application because we decided it would be stupid to dump all of our free cash at the time into a vacation home that might or might not cashflow. So we don't have any further details beyond that.
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I had no idea what people were talking about.
I had never seen House Hunters... until tonight.
I'm traveling for work and (for some reason) turned on the TV in my hotel room.
The first thing I see is three people standing in front of a (not terribly remarkable) house.
A realtor tells a couple "now this home has THREE bedrooms."
They both seemed excited to hear that. (I guess that was more than they expected?).
Husband asks, "Now whats the price on this?"
Realtor says "Are you ready for this? 1.2 million."
They both smile and the husband literally high-fived the realtor.
Yeah, I turned it off at that point.
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My favorite part of those shows:
HUSBAND: "I sell used 8-track tapes"
WIFE: "And I hang potatoes in people's garages"
HUSBAND: Our budget is $950K
Ha! Good one.
Mitchell and Web had a good skit about house hunting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWoWHzq21tA
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I had no idea what people were talking about.
I had never seen House Hunters... until tonight.
I'm traveling for work and (for some reason) turned on the TV in my hotel room.
The first thing I see is three people standing in front of a (not terribly remarkable) house.
A realtor tells a couple "now this home has THREE bedrooms."
They both seemed excited to hear that. (I guess that was more than they expected?).
Husband asks, "Now whats the price on this?"
Realtor says "Are you ready for this? 1.2 million."
They both smile and the husband literally high-fived the realtor.
Yeah, I turned it off at that point.
Where were they? In San Francisco, for example, that might be a great deal. Same for NYC or Toronto. In Paris, Singapore or Hong Kong, to name just a few, that could be a screaming deal.
Context is everything. Just because you're used to a different standard doesn't mean those prices are necessarily out of line.
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I had no idea what people were talking about.
I had never seen House Hunters... until tonight.
I'm traveling for work and (for some reason) turned on the TV in my hotel room.
The first thing I see is three people standing in front of a (not terribly remarkable) house.
A realtor tells a couple "now this home has THREE bedrooms."
They both seemed excited to hear that. (I guess that was more than they expected?).
Husband asks, "Now whats the price on this?"
Realtor says "Are you ready for this? 1.2 million."
They both smile and the husband literally high-fived the realtor.
Yeah, I turned it off at that point.
Where were they? In San Francisco, for example, that might be a great deal. Same for NYC or Toronto. In Paris, Singapore or Hong Kong, to name just a few, that could be a screaming deal.
Context is everything. Just because you're used to a different standard doesn't mean those prices are necessarily out of line.
I realize that, and I don't actually know where they were (it looked like a suburban neighborhood somewhere).
And, for all I know these were two high earners who have a 75% savings rate as well.
The reason these sorts of shows bug me though is because the majority of the audience are most likely not high earners with great savings rates (and probably don't live in markets where $1.2M for a 3 bedroom house is a good deal) - and I feel like they serve to warp people's expectations and goals.
I realize the reason these things are on TV is because they are not normal, which is what makes them entertaining for some to watch. But by making extreme cases the majority of what we see in entertainment it makes it seem like the norm, and inevitably leaves people feeling as if what they have is not enough.
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Vacation home for free always made me laugh. There was questionable math going on. "You can rent this for 10 weeks a year for $1000 or 5 weeks a year for $2000"
Well who wouldn't pick the second? But with no research on market demand.
Actually this show does what Income Property used to do. (Is that one gone? I liked it.) They post an update at the end of the show. On a recent show, a NJ couple bought in FL. It said they liked the house so much they pulled up stakes and moved into the vacation house permanently.
As to your specific reference, I think I've seen 'em all and don't recall that one. Which episode was it? And "no research"? You sure about that?
Oh, I'm sure the people who buy them have done research. But the way it is presented on the show rings very false. Every episode I've seen they give the option of two different rents you can charge, and how many weeks it takes to cover the mortgage. Why would anyone charge the lower rent if the market can bear the higher one?
I also liked Income Property.
And "For Rent". There aren't many rental house hunting shows, so that one was interesting.
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My partner and I love House Hunters! It's educational, because we're downsizing to a lower COL area when we retire. Watching HH is one way we do research.
We play along and guess which house the couple will pick. It's funny when one of the houses isn't staged at all, and closets and shelves are full of crap. You just know that house was NEVER on the market! It's a friend's house, who are they fooling!
Also, some of the houses have ridiculous features or layouts. My favorite was the master bedroom with a door that opened into the garage!
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My favorite was the master bedroom with a door that opened into the garage!
I would actually use that and have considered cutting a door between the shared wall that separates my bedroom from the garage. The upside would be the ability to walk out and trundle the trash cans out every trash day without going through the main house and admitting to being awake. Sometimes my schedule is odd and I prefer to not admit to being awake.
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I had no idea what people were talking about.
I had never seen House Hunters... until tonight.
. . .
Where were they? In San Francisco, for example, that might be a great deal. Same for NYC or Toronto. In Paris, Singapore or Hong Kong, to name just a few, that could be a screaming deal.
Context is everything. Just because you're used to a different standard doesn't mean those prices are necessarily out of line.
I realize that, and I don't actually know where they were (it looked like a suburban neighborhood somewhere).
And, for all I know these were two high earners who have a 75% savings rate as well.
The reason these sorts of shows bug me though is because the majority of the audience are most likely not high earners with great savings rates (and probably don't live in markets where $1.2M for a 3 bedroom house is a good deal) - and I feel like they serve to warp people's expectations and goals.
I realize the reason these things are on TV is because they are not normal, which is what makes them entertaining for some to watch. But by making extreme cases the majority of what we see in entertainment it makes it seem like the norm, and inevitably leaves people feeling as if what they have is not enough.
A lot of the House Hunters episodes were filmed in the suburbs of Atlanta, which is a pretty LCOL area, particularly for a large city. The house prices were not jaw-dropping high at all. To the contrary, many of the homes were rather large for quite reasonable prices (semi-McMansion-style).
One of my friends and his (then-)wife participated in an episode about 10 years ago. They had already closed on their home, and the other two home options were selected by the show. They filmed the whole episode in one weekend. My friends were told to bring several changes of clothes so that it looked like the home viewings were done on different days and that the follow-up was awhile later. The big schtick of their episode was that (1) there was no room in their apartment kitchen and they kept bumping into each other, literally, and (2) my friend was obsessed with getting his "man cave." My friend said the money for doing the show was like nothing, but his wife really wanted to do it, so he said okay. Oh, and I don't remember exactly about their budget, but my friend was an attorney in a big law firm and I remember it seemed to me that their house price was reasonable as compared to that salary.
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Too small kitchen (or bathroom) is the premise of like 80% of the episodes.
Everytime my husband and I are in the kitchen and get into each others way we say we need a new house. (We have a giant! house)
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My favorite was the master bedroom with a door that opened into the garage!
I would actually use that and have considered cutting a door between the shared wall that separates my bedroom from the garage. The upside would be the ability to walk out and trundle the trash cans out every trash day without going through the main house and admitting to being awake. Sometimes my schedule is odd and I prefer to not admit to being awake.
Or polish on your favorite collector car in your unmentionables at odd hours day or night without the rest of the family being aware.
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If one family member is allergic to your pet, you can keep the pet in the garage but still let him/her into the master suite at night.
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If one family member is allergic to your pet, you can keep the pet in the garage but still let him/her into the master suite at night.
Or you could get rid of the family member who has the allergy ;-)
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Income Property and Mike Holmes original shows were the best and most realistic, in my opinion.
A neighbor of mine signed up for House Hunters when she lived in Houston, but ultimately decided it wasn't worth the hassle for $150, which is what she was told they would get paid.
I enjoy watching the Tiny Homes shows from time to time, b/c they always seem to find the worst possible people to look at those homes, like the 50 year old woman who is not going to be able to climb up to that loft in 10 years. Or they have a massive dog who takes up the entire floor space of the kitchen, or the people who try to squeeze themselves in the Japanese tub and pretend it would be relaxing. But mostly, when I do watch, it's for the snarky commentator. That's the best. This home is 120 sq ft, which is the size of the average closet! Love that voiceover person. :)
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I've only seen a few of the Holmes episodes. They were really good IMHO. More than just a decorator's touch.
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I have only seen 4-5 episodes, but every one followed the same pattern. Gut the HVAC. Replace the electrical. Look, the plumbing isn't perfect, since the house is already torn up lets do that. New insulation and drywall. Heck, at that point you have a new house except for some 2 by 4's.
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I've only seen a few of the Holmes episodes. They were really good IMHO. More than just a decorator's touch.
I really liked the Holmes Makes It Right series. I like seeing what the previous contractors screwed up - it gives you some idea of what to look for when hiring people to work on your house.
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That is the show I liked. Fixing other contractors' work. Some of the repairs were so elaborate!
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That is the show I liked. Fixing other contractors' work. Some of the repairs were so elaborate!
Yes, I remember one in particular where a couple had hired a contractor to add a second story to their house, and it was so bad that Mike Holmes offered to buy the place from them as a teardown. They ended up fixing it, but it's amazing to see what bad contractors can get away with.
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Holmes is amazing, but if every house was built to his standard, they would all cost millions.
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Holmes is amazing, but if every house was built to his standard, they would all cost millions.
Not at all, and there are builders who do just that - http://holmesapprovedhomes.com/about-us
A neighbor just compiled a bunch of articles and newspaper ads about our development onto a website, and apparently the builder was like the Mike Holmes of the '50s and '60s. The houses are really well designed and built. One of the original owners, who still lived on the street when we moved in, told us that he had stopped by to check the construction of the houses as they were being built, and, as a civil engineer, he was impressed with the build quality.
The builder himself, despite making a lot of money over the years, never moved from the dream house he built in a neighboring town just after WWII.
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Crazy to think I've been watching house hunters since 2005 almost. I miss Suzanna Whang :(
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I'm no expert but I do know some carpentry. Some contractors seem to do the absolute minimum on spec houses I've looked at. It wouldn't cost that much more to use more materials - thicker plywood, more floor joists so they are spaced closer together, better shingles.
Just like the car companies trying to save a $1 a million times, I'm sure it adds up over a subdivision in time and materials. Its why I'd like to build my own house someday. Add in that extra 18 inches of closet depth (my house as a closet so shallow it is nearly unusable).
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Anyone tried to cross check any of these house prices on Zillow or elsewhere and see if the price tags were real?
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I used to wonder if Chip Gaines was making commissions on the houses they feature, but since learning that the buyer must already have a house under contract, I don't think so.
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Just watching an episode of Fixer Upper and Chip was wearing a shirt with Magnolia Realty. He's a founder and co-owner.
https://www.magnoliarealty.com/
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Holmes is amazing, but if every house was built to his standard, they would all cost millions.
The problem is that, for most buyers, it simply doesn't matter. They might claim that they care about quality, but in the end it's location, amenities, and price. I built homes that would occasionally have inspectors saying things like, "it's been twenty or thirty years since I saw a place wired this well", or "I'm got nothing to gain by telling you this, and I'm not blowing smoke here, but you do some of the best work I have ever seen" In the end, decades of doing that kind of work made some customers who are long time friends, got me a bit of business from other pros, and left me with a product that I could be proud of. The average customer simply doesn't give a shit how well a place is built. I have dealt with hundreds, maybe thousands, of potential customers while holding open houses for my spec. homes. Very, very few care about quality as a top factor in pulling the trigger on a new home. Many appreciate it, but will not spend a dime more because it's there. Others will flat out tell you that it really doesn't matter. As for costs, it's quite possible to build a superior product in a normal budget range, but it involves good choices, and competent management on site. Unfortunately, the entire process ensures that neither are likely.
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Anyone tried to cross check any of these house prices on Zillow or elsewhere and see if the price tags were real?
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I used to wonder if Chip Gaines was making commissions on the houses they feature, but since learning that the buyer must already have a house under contract, I don't think so.
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Just watching an episode of Fixer Upper and Chip was wearing a shirt with Magnolia Realty. He's a founder and co-owner.
https://www.magnoliarealty.com/
Yeah, that's part of how he got his start after college/marriage. Interesting side note about them - they have never owned a TV.
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Anyone tried to cross check any of these house prices on Zillow or elsewhere and see if the price tags were real?
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I used to wonder if Chip Gaines was making commissions on the houses they feature, but since learning that the buyer must already have a house under contract, I don't think so.
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Just watching an episode of Fixer Upper and Chip was wearing a shirt with Magnolia Realty. He's a founder and co-owner.
https://www.magnoliarealty.com/
Yeah, that's part of how he got his start after college/marriage. Interesting side note about them - they have never owned a TV.
Well isn't that a delicious slice of irony?
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Holmes is amazing, but if every house was built to his standard, they would all cost millions.
The problem is that, for most buyers, it simply doesn't matter. They might claim that they care about quality, but in the end it's location, amenities, and price. I built homes that would occasionally have inspectors saying things like, "it's been twenty or thirty years since I saw a place wired this well", or "I'm got nothing to gain by telling you this, and I'm not blowing smoke here, but you do some of the best work I have ever seen" In the end, decades of doing that kind of work made some customers who are long time friends, got me a bit of business from other pros, and left me with a product that I could be proud of. The average customer simply doesn't give a shit how well a place is built. I have dealt with hundreds, maybe thousands, of potential customers while holding open houses for my spec. homes. Very, very few care about quality as a top factor in pulling the trigger on a new home. Many appreciate it, but will not spend a dime more because it's there. Others will flat out tell you that it really doesn't matter. As for costs, it's quite possible to build a superior product in a normal budget range, but it involves good choices, and competent management on site. Unfortunately, the entire process ensures that neither are likely.
I would say the average buyer doesn't have a clue how to assess quality. Most just want to see high end finishes. Whatever their checklist is, hardwood floor, granite/marble countertops, crown molding, stainless steel, etc., is what matters. They have an idea about what a nice house should look like and as long as they have those finishes, they assume that the other stuff is taken care of by being good enough to pass code inspection (or maybe they don't think about it at all). A lot of buyers don't even notice obviously shoddy finish work on the things they care about.
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^This.^ DH has mad contracting skills and can read a house like a book. We brake for Open Houses and enjoy a good BRRR or Flip on occasion. We often see the most ridiculous work and then have a good laugh at how much over asking the dogshit house sells for.
Our immediate neighbors are building their dream house and things are not going well. From our vantage point, we see all kinds of not-good things happening. For example, two of the skylights are fine, but the third one is flashed incorrectly. DH has mentioned a couple of things to the neighbor, but he's been ignored. Now our lips are firmly zipped. I'm sure it will look lovely once it's done, but Dog help them and the future buyers.
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So here's my question: how does one go about finding tradesmen like paddedhat? I wish there were some sort of online resource for guiding the discerning homeowner (or potential homeowner) towards contractors and trades that care about quality workmanship.
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Yes - b/c around here all the good ones seem to be very busy. I guess we'll have to wait until the next recession to hire people to do a couple of projects for us. ;)
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I can tell you that living in a house that's well built feels very different. We would have cared, but could never have afforded to pay someone else to do it right.
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Re. House Hunters foolishness, how often have you heard any of the following on that show:
- ooh look honey, this walk-in closet is HUGE!! (*giggles*) but you'll need to find some other place to put your clothes because I'll need all this room for my shoes, bags and things
- ooh, look at the soaker tub - let's climb in with our shoes on and see if we fit!
- ooh, look at that ugly [pink/blue/whatever] paint on that wall - I can't live here!
- oh no ... only one sink in the bathroom ... that's a deal-breaker
- we have a 10K downpayment and we've been approved for an 400K mortgage, so our budget is 410K
- this place is 45 minutes further away from my job, but look at how nice and big this place is!
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I can tell you that living in a house that's well built feels very different. We would have cared, but could never have afforded to pay someone else to do it right.
A nearly identical house to ours was available for almost $40k less. We could tell why. The Realtor could literally shake the gutters loose, and what looked like similar finishes were not as well installed.
But in one episode Holmes put a house in tornado alley and built it entirely of concrete. A concrete safe room is sufficient. All concrete houses would cost insane amounts compared to standard framing. (A neighbor actually has one. It cost 50% more than our house by square footage.)
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So here's my question: how does one go about finding tradesmen like paddedhat? I wish there were some sort of online resource for guiding the discerning homeowner (or potential homeowner) towards contractors and trades that care about quality workmanship.
I'd love to know about this, too.
Yes - b/c around here all the good ones seem to be very busy. I guess we'll have to wait until the next recession to hire people to do a couple of projects for us. ;)
So true. Right now, it's next to impossible to get a good contractor, vendor, or building consultant on site. They all have other clients with bigger, more lucrative projects. Ugh.
Re. House Hunters foolishness, how often have you heard any of the following on that show: . . . .
You're spot on!
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Holmes is amazing, but if every house was built to his standard, they would all cost millions.
The problem is that, for most buyers, it simply doesn't matter. They might claim that they care about quality, but in the end it's location, amenities, and price. I built homes that would occasionally have inspectors saying things like, "it's been twenty or thirty years since I saw a place wired this well", or "I'm got nothing to gain by telling you this, and I'm not blowing smoke here, but you do some of the best work I have ever seen" In the end, decades of doing that kind of work made some customers who are long time friends, got me a bit of business from other pros, and left me with a product that I could be proud of. The average customer simply doesn't give a shit how well a place is built. I have dealt with hundreds, maybe thousands, of potential customers while holding open houses for my spec. homes. Very, very few care about quality as a top factor in pulling the trigger on a new home. Many appreciate it, but will not spend a dime more because it's there. Others will flat out tell you that it really doesn't matter. As for costs, it's quite possible to build a superior product in a normal budget range, but it involves good choices, and competent management on site. Unfortunately, the entire process ensures that neither are likely.
I would say the average buyer doesn't have a clue how to assess quality. Most just want to see high end finishes. Whatever their checklist is, hardwood floor, granite/marble countertops, crown molding, stainless steel, etc., is what matters. They have an idea about what a nice house should look like and as long as they have those finishes, they assume that the other stuff is taken care of by being good enough to pass code inspection (or maybe they don't think about it at all). A lot of buyers don't even notice obviously shoddy finish work on the things they care about.
I would love for our next house to be a well-built house. I just need to figure out how to identify that.
Hell, I'd love to know if our current house is a well-built house. Overall, the quality seems pretty good, but the floors seem kind of iffy. There's one area of the house where the subfloor noticeably 'pops' when you walk on it (at one end of the hallway connecting the secondary bedrooms and in approx 25% of the bedroom that's at that end of the hallway). In my daughter's room, footsteps anywhere in the room will cause items to rattle on her bookshelf (I'm a bit overweight, but seriously?!). Walking past our dresser in our bedroom causes the dresser mirror to shake pretty visibly. I feel like all of that is a bit excessive for a house that's less than 20 years old, but my husband says I'm just spoiled by growing up in Florida, where houses were typically built on a slab.
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So here's my question: how does one go about finding tradesmen like paddedhat? I wish there were some sort of online resource for guiding the discerning homeowner (or potential homeowner) towards contractors and trades that care about quality workmanship.
I'm no sure if others found it to be the case in their specific market area, but where I did business, there was a clear set of events over the last decade that really and truly struck a death blow to the concept of having a long term supply of competent trades people. During my career, for the two decades up to the start of the great recession, for the most part I had a supply of great local subcontractors who really had skin it the game. Often because they were local multi-generational framers, roofers, etc.... who had a stake in their local community. In the beginning of the 2000s many of these guys started to take hits from two different directions. First, our society places little value on being a tradesman, so it became more difficult for guys to convince their sons to "follow in their footsteps". When you're a kid in high school, and all you ever hear is that you will be nothing without a degree, it becomes obvious to you that working hard, swinging a hammer like dad does, is about as far from success as it gets. Second many of the trades were severely undercut by illegals. You might be a local sheetrocker who is now third generation, and literally been at it since the shit was invented, but now you are competing with a labor force that works for a fraction of what you need to keep your decent standard of living going. Neither of these issues were absolute game changers, and everybody marched forward and did the best they could.
Then the recession hits. It hit like Katrina in my area. Two years in, and local new housing starts are down by 92% and stayed that way for several years. Now the real local craftsman are on the ropes. You have the older guys who say, screw this, it's time to retire. The next generation, the 25-55 Y.O group, ends up leaving the trades for anything reliable with a steady check. Things like solid jobs in local school district, or municipal maintenance operations. Lots of these guys also become truck drivers. The job might suck, but they have families to feed, and it pays well and is reliable. Like we discussed, the under 25 crowd already baled before they got started. The other problem, as a general contractor, is that the illegals held on as long as they could, but 3-4 years in, and there gone too. So, now it's 2011, 12, 13 and it's quite a wilderness out there. It's tough to find help, and it's tougher to find talented help that gives a shit.
BY the end of 2013 I had enough Cheddar stacked that I gave up. I don't regret it for a minute, but I can't imagine how hard it would be to try to start again, in that area, and actually build a decent product. Not impossible, but painful, especially if you know how it used to be, and not too terribly long ago. The interesting part is that there are now huge unfilled opportunities out there that are just waiting for competent honest tradespeople to fill. I know several guys who are young and smart enough to go out on their own doing service work, plumbing, electrical, HVAC and ended up with very successful businesses while still in their twenties. Fifteen years ago they would of had a huge struggle competing with all the other small players, now the work is ther for the picking. Their competition is gone, and it's either deal with an honest, well regarded local guy, or call some high pressure, low ethics outfit that spends tons on advertising, and will screw you hard if they can.
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Re. House Hunters foolishness, how often have you heard any of the following on that show:
- ooh look honey, this walk-in closet is HUGE!! (*giggles*) but you'll need to find some other place to put your clothes because I'll need all this room for my shoes, bags and things
- ooh, look at the soaker tub - let's climb in with our shoes on and see if we fit!
- ooh, look at that ugly [pink/blue/whatever] paint on that wall - I can't live here!
- oh no ... only one sink in the bathroom ... that's a deal-breaker
- we have a 10K downpayment and we've been approved for an 400K mortgage, so our budget is 410K
- this place is 45 minutes further away from my job, but look at how nice and big this place is!
My favourite is tiny house hunters saying, "it's so tiiiiiiny". For some reason this annoys my husband. I think it's hilarious.
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I can tell you that living in a house that's well built feels very different. We would have cared, but could never have afforded to pay someone else to do it right.
A nearly identical house to ours was available for almost $40k less. We could tell why. The Realtor could literally shake the gutters loose, and what looked like similar finishes were not as well installed.
But in one episode Holmes put a house in tornado alley and built it entirely of concrete. A concrete safe room is sufficient. All concrete houses would cost insane amounts compared to standard framing. (A neighbor actually has one. It cost 50% more than our house by square footage.)
Ours is poured concrete and bermed on three sides, so yes, I know what you mean.
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I'm intrigued by the Berm-house, but our last house had some issues with flooding in the basement, so convincing my wife to go with a house that's basically all-basement is a non-starter.
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I'm intrigued by the Berm-house, but our last house had some issues with flooding in the basement, so convincing my wife to go with a house that's basically all-basement is a non-starter.
It's a shame to suffer from somebody else's bad design and or construction. Twice in my career I saw homes that were essentially built on a flowing spring, and had dry basements. The first one was one of mine. We hit a very large spring within a few feet of the basement, while digging the water line. The five foot deep trench filled so fast that it was tough to jump out in time. We continue the trench downhill, and took it out to daylight. It then was filled with small gravel before covering with dirt. It created a lovely small stream, bubbling out of the grass, well away from the house. The basement remains bone dry. In another case the spring was inside the footprint of the house, but with decent drainage and some slight changes to the foundation, it too is still dry.
I really like berm houses, and they can be done well, and remain dry, but it takes a bit more diligence in design and implementation.
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Yep, good French drains all around for runoff (we're built into a hill) and 4“ gravel under the slab (which should be standard but isn't always). Bermed to direct water away from the walls and French drains. We've been in five years now and no hint of water incursions.
The place is designed as a full earth shelter though we went with a metal roof for cost reasons instead of burying it (fortuitous decision as we had to jackhammer one corner into the rock as it was - a couple feet deeper word really have sucked). But the south wall, the one above grade, is almost all windows, with an inset courtyard for light in the back of the house. The roof overhangs are designed for shade in summer, and it works- we stay cool in summer and have passive solar heat in winter.
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[/quote]
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I used to wonder if Chip Gaines was making commissions on the houses they feature, but since learning that the buyer must already have a house under contract, I don't think so.
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[/quote]
Just watching an episode of Fixer Upper and Chip was wearing a shirt with Magnolia Realty. He's a founder and co-owner.
https://www.magnoliarealty.com/
[/quote]
Yeah, that's part of how he got his start after college/marriage. Interesting side note about them - they have never owned a TV.
[/quote]o
Well, you don't need a TV to watch stuff. I have heard Joanna in person say how much the kids like to watch themselves on the show. I am outing myself-yes, I live in Waco. And now two of Chip's "friends" are suing him because he bought them out of their share of Magnolia realty super cheap right before he announced they got he HGTV show. And a lot of the people on the show have lived in the house for years and only pretend to but it on the show. And they strong arm people to spend way more than they wanted to originally. And most of the houses from the first and second season are rentals now, because they weren't the worst house in the best neighborhood. They are just a cheap house in a bad neighborhood and no one wants to live there. Some are in just regular neighborhoods, but the spend so much redoing them, I doubt that in a few years when people are tired of Fixxer Upper, they could sell it and get their money back out. One of them is around the corner from my house. They paid about what it was worth but then put so much more into it it would never sell for even close to what they paid for it. And last week the Magnolia Trucks were parked there again. Redoing work that wasn't right the first time. Apparently it happens a lot. They get sued for it all the time. My cousin was a contractor for them but finally quit because he couldn't stand them any more.
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I seemed to have killed this thread by spewing vitriol on Chip and Joanna. I am sorry (but they annoy me).
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I seemed to have killed this thread by spewing vitriol on Chip and Joanna. I am sorry (but they annoy me).
Hyperbole is known to annoy people here. So is confusing anecdotes for data. Saying things like "They get sued for it all the time." with no proof kind of puts people off, too. While everyone's opinion is welcome, as long it's expressed reasonably politely, a bunch of unsupported accusations isn't going to get much traction.
Seriously, why would it be anyone's concern if Chip and Joanna Gaines annoy you? They seem to be mostly self made and very hard working. Those are badass traits that are generally admired in this crowd. I read your vitriol when it was originally posted and decided to ignore it, but since you posted again, here are my two pennies.
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Given the generally poor credibility of the cable tv "fixer upper craze", with questionable versions of reality, frequent news pieces on issues, lawsuits, and unhappiness in the local community, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss spiffy's comments. Especially based on your version of what's acceptable dialog here.
A few things I have noted, as somebody who has done this for a living.
#1. They, particularly in the early years of the show, gravitate toward extraordinarily cheap properties in need of huge amounts of work. Now Waco may very well be an undiscovered gem, where property values are exploding, yet quaint, rehab-able Victorians are going for $35K, in great neighborhoods, or not. Personally I doubt it. Even in more recent episodes, careful camera work can't hide the fact that they are showing some potential homes that are in commercial and industrial areas, which perhaps explains the extremely low valuations.
#2 Overall, I believe that they are a higher caliber of reality star than most, but they are far from controversy free. The huge commercial project they undertook had a lot of bad press, with neighbors bitterly complaining of everything from traffic to exploding tax assessments base on the city's belief that the Gaines had created a gold mine, and the other businesses in the area were now worth much more.
#3 As a long term builder in a LCOL area, I'm not buying their budgets. "Well, we are going to stabilize this 400 sq. ft. falling down addition and turn it in to a dream kitchen, so that's $25K of your budget". Sorry, but no.
Your determination that they are to be admired may be correct, but if they are anything like most who came before them in the cable game, there is far more to the story than you and I will even know, and it might tarnish your overall positive opinion of the whole deal if you had access to the whole truth.
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Yes - b/c around here all the good ones seem to be very busy. I guess we'll have to wait until the next recession to hire people to do a couple of projects for us. ;)
So true. Right now, it's next to impossible to get a good contractor, vendor, or building consultant on site. They all have other clients with bigger, more lucrative projects. Ugh.
Make friends with landlords or builders who know the good workmen. Then have them ask the contractors to help you out.
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#1. They, particularly in the early years of the show, gravitate toward extraordinarily cheap properties in need of huge amounts of work. Now Waco may very well be an undiscovered gem, where property values are exploding, yet quaint, rehab-able Victorians are going for $35K, in great neighborhoods, or not. Personally I doubt it. Even in more recent episodes, careful camera work can't hide the fact that they are showing some potential homes that are in commercial and industrial areas, which perhaps explains the extremely low valuations.
While getting my teeth cleaned yesterday, I was flipping through the channels and saw that there was a house purchased for $580,000. I don't know what the renovation budget was. I was under the impression that there's lots of land in Waco and houses/land is cheap. Not anymore I guess.
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Holmes is amazing, but if every house was built to his standard, they would all cost millions.
The problem is that, for most buyers, it simply doesn't matter. They might claim that they care about quality, but in the end it's location, amenities, and price. I built homes that would occasionally have inspectors saying things like, "it's been twenty or thirty years since I saw a place wired this well", or "I'm got nothing to gain by telling you this, and I'm not blowing smoke here, but you do some of the best work I have ever seen" In the end, decades of doing that kind of work made some customers who are long time friends, got me a bit of business from other pros, and left me with a product that I could be proud of. The average customer simply doesn't give a shit how well a place is built. I have dealt with hundreds, maybe thousands, of potential customers while holding open houses for my spec. homes. Very, very few care about quality as a top factor in pulling the trigger on a new home. Many appreciate it, but will not spend a dime more because it's there. Others will flat out tell you that it really doesn't matter. As for costs, it's quite possible to build a superior product in a normal budget range, but it involves good choices, and competent management on site. Unfortunately, the entire process ensures that neither are likely.
As well it should be, no? That's generally the only thing that can't be changed. I've lived in a great house in a crap location and a less great house in a great location and let me tell you the location is the thing that really drives quality of life day in and day out.
I also think there's a diminishing return on certain things. You said inspectors tell you 'it's been twenty or thirty years since I saw a place wired this well'; I mean, that's cool and all, but as a homeowner, as long as my house is wired to code, what am I getting for all that perfect wiring? More outlets and switches? Or it's just prettier inside the wall where I never hope to see it anyways?
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Given the generally poor credibility of the cable tv "fixer upper craze", with questionable versions of reality, frequent news pieces on issues, lawsuits, and unhappiness in the local community, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss spiffy's comments. Especially based on your version of what's acceptable dialog here.
A few things I have noted, as somebody who has done this for a living.
#1. They, particularly in the early years of the show, gravitate toward extraordinarily cheap properties in need of huge amounts of work. Now Waco may very well be an undiscovered gem, where property values are exploding, yet quaint, rehab-able Victorians are going for $35K, in great neighborhoods, or not. Personally I doubt it. Even in more recent episodes, careful camera work can't hide the fact that they are showing some potential homes that are in commercial and industrial areas, which perhaps explains the extremely low valuations.
#2 Overall, I believe that they are a higher caliber of reality star than most, but they are far from controversy free. The huge commercial project they undertook had a lot of bad press, with neighbors bitterly complaining of everything from traffic to exploding tax assessments base on the city's belief that the Gaines had created a gold mine, and the other businesses in the area were now worth much more.
#3 As a long term builder in a LCOL area, I'm not buying their budgets. "Well, we are going to stabilize this 400 sq. ft. falling down addition and turn it in to a dream kitchen, so that's $25K of your budget". Sorry, but no.
Your determination that they are to be admired may be correct, but if they are anything like most who came before them in the cable game, there is far more to the story than you and I will even know, and it might tarnish your overall positive opinion of the whole deal if you had access to the whole truth.
I don't disagree with you at all paddedhat! I disagreed with spiffy's unsubstantiated snark. Not the same thing. Reality TV is, after all, Reality TV. Why would anyone expect home improvement reality shows to be any more realistic than anything featuring housewives, polygamists, bachelors, singers, dancers, ad nauseum.
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Holmes is amazing, but if every house was built to his standard, they would all cost millions.
I also think there's a diminishing return on certain things. You said inspectors tell you 'it's been twenty or thirty years since I saw a place wired this well'; I mean, that's cool and all, but as a homeowner, as long as my house is wired to code, what am I getting for all that perfect wiring? More outlets and switches? Or it's just prettier inside the wall where I never hope to see it anyways?
You get dozens of things that are to your benefit, and result in a system that is not now, nor will ever be, overloaded, and is far more durable and less like to require expensive repairs. You also get things that may save your life. A few highlights include interconnected 120v /battery back up smoke alarms in all major rooms, and all bedrooms, not just one in the hall outside the bedroom doors. Smoke alarms in unfinished basements and crawl spaces. Dedicated circuits for all kitchen loads. GFCI breaker on a dedicated circuit covering exterior receptacles, which prevent having to search the entire property to determine where the GFCI outlet that protects the rear deck receptacle is hidden. Properly spliced junction behind receptacles at wall boxes, instead of the sorry-assed practice of "push wiring" the conductors into the back of the receptacle. This alone will prevent an expensive visit by a service electrician at some point in the life of the house. Proper identification and marking of the main panel, and large switches, or disconnects, and exposed junction boxes with printed permanent labels. You get quality products from top shelf manufacturers, like SQ. D and Hubbell, not a shit grade undersized electrical panel from a bargain brand. "Spec grade" commercial rated switches, receptacles, GFCI outlets, and unbreakable nylon covers. Fan rated ceiling boxes, wiring and switching in all major rooms for future ceiling fans and lights. Coax to all bedrooms, living room, family room. Any underground wiring to the well pump, outside lighting etc... run in conduit. Switched closet lights in all bedrooms. Recessed lighting in baths, halls and kitchen. undercounter lighting in kitchen.
Overall, you get a light commercial grade job, done to high installation standards, and something that is easily recognizable by other pros and inspectors. It's a tremendous long term benefit to the homeowner, and you are right, in the end it means absolutely nothing. I won't do it any other way, and over the years I've met a small handful other others who do the same. But it's done to do the right thing, not because it pays well, or sells a home.
At the other extreme an install that sticks to strict code minimums is actually a pretty sorry place to live. Multiple bedrooms on one circuit, no closet lighting, no under-counter lighting, no overhead fans or lighting in the bedrooms. Outlets stretched to the maximum spacing allowed. Cheap fixtures, worthless bathroom fans, no requirement to rough in ANY phone/data/coax etc..... Yea, there is a huge difference, but as you say, people buy that crap every day of the week, and spend the next few years figuring out that they got screwed. Nothing like watching the cable guy pulling vinyl siding off a brand new house to hide TV cable, since the builder couldn't be bother to rough it in while the place was being built. Or, speeding $300 to have a repair electrician try to figure out why half the house is dark since a hot wire broke off the back of a push wired $0.59 receptacle that was installed by a semi-skilled, $10 HR helper.
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I don't disagree with you at all paddedhat! I disagreed with spiffy's unsubstantiated snark. Not the same thing. Reality TV is, after all, Reality TV. Why would anyone expect home improvement reality shows to be any more realistic than anything featuring housewives, polygamists, bachelors, singers, dancers, ad nauseum.
Well if that's your issue, I would disagree. Not only was spiffy's post interesting, and provided details from somebody who actually lives right in the middle of an ongoing reality show, your comments directed at him are needless and elitist. When the conversation degrades to a tone of. "where is your proof? Why are you talking about lawsuits without citing case numbers, and a brief synopsis of each? Did I miss your footnotes? Not only does it result in eye rolling on the part of a lot of readers, but it drips of elitism. "unsubstantiated snark." seriously? This isn't a law review journal.
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I don't disagree with you at all paddedhat! I disagreed with spiffy's unsubstantiated snark. Not the same thing. Reality TV is, after all, Reality TV. Why would anyone expect home improvement reality shows to be any more realistic than anything featuring housewives, polygamists, bachelors, singers, dancers, ad nauseum.
Well if that's your issue, I would disagree. Not only was spiffy's post interesting, and provided details from somebody who actually lives right in the middle of an ongoing reality show, your comments directed at him are needless and elitist. When the conversation degrades to a tone of. "where is your proof? Why are you talking about lawsuits without citing case numbers, and a brief synopsis of each? Did I miss your footnotes? Not only does it result in eye rolling on the part of a lot of readers, but it drips of elitism. "unsubstantiated snark." seriously? This isn't a law review journal.
TL;DR Alert: This is long. If you agree with paddedhat's comment above, you can just skip it.
I can't figure out how asking for facts qualifies as elitism. But I respect your opinion, paddedhat, and your words piqued my curiosity, so I looked it up. Most definitions were too brief to be useful, so what the hell, here's the whole entry from Wikipedia:
"Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, specialized training, experience, distinctive attributes, whose influence or authority is greater than that of others, whose views on a matter are to be taken more seriously, whose views or actions are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, or whose extraordinary skills, abilities, or wisdom render them especially fit to govern. In America, the term "elitism" often refers to the concentration of power on the Northeast Corridor and West Coast, where the typical American elite - lawyers, doctors, high-level civil servants (such as White House aides), businesspeople, university lecturers, entrepreneurs and financial advisors in the quarternary sector - reside, often in the university towns they graduated from.
Alternatively, the term elitism may be used to describe a situation in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people. Oppositions of elitism include anti-elitism, egalitarianism, populism and political theory of pluralism. Elite theory is the sociological or political science analysis of elite influence in society: elite theorists regard pluralism as a utopian ideal.
'Elitism' also refers to situations in which an individual assumes special 'privileges' and responsibilities in the hope that this arrangement will benefit humanity or themselves. Elitism is closely related to social class and what sociologists call social stratification. Members of the upper classes are sometimes known as the social elite. The term elitism is also sometimes used to denote situations in which a group of people claiming to possess high abilities or simply an in-group or cadre grant themselves extra privileges at the expense of others. This form of elitism may be described as discrimination."
I still don't see a connection...maybe we'll just have to agree to politely disagree, paddedhat.
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Jesus, did the butler help you with your morning jacket, before retiring to the parlor with your leather bound, signed copy of your Oxford English Dictionary, to respond? You once again missed the point. Who gives a rat's ass hair if I used the word elitist? Would pompous, bombastic, or self-righteous, be more suitable? Personally, I don't care for those words, as they turn a minor disagreement into a personal attack rather than an issue with tone. Which IMHO, something than a few members here can be guilty of. It's the tone of your needless reply to Spiffy's comments that's the issue. He lives in a small town that is the center of a very successful real estate based reality show. He contributed his personal observations, and the opinion of somebody that far more knowledgeable about the show than the rest of us commoners who reside in places other than Waco. TX.
IF spiffy was holding himself out to be an authority on a subject and presenting unsustainable opinion and undocumented claims, then your comments would be in keeping with the caliber of the information provided. In this case it was a local providing a bit of background gossip on a reality show of all things...................Ironic, perhaps?
This is an odd place full of everything from lonely male engineers with the social skill set of a houseplant, to folks who just stumbled in the room, desperately hoping to find a solution to the crushing debt of our consumer madness, while making little income, and lacking the tools to even understand the problem. When anybody attacks another contributor based on their post not meeting standards, it creates a silent trail of folks moving on, since they don't want to be contributing, or even learning at a place where their opinion is unacceptable to the self appointed arbitrators.
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Why is asking for facts, or in this case, substantiation of accusations, striking such a nerve with you, sir?
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Why is asking for facts, or in this case, substantiation of accusations, striking such a nerve with you, sir?
If you can't read all that I have carefully written, and comprehend my disdain with you attitude towards others here, then my replies are nothing but wasted space on the forum, and shortening the life of my keyboard. By the way, please don't flatter yourself with the delusion that you have "struck a nerve". Oh, and here's a tidbit, since dealing with the commoners seems to be a bit of a struggle, save the "sir" bit for the lads at the club.
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I used to wonder if Chip Gaines was making commissions on the houses they feature, but since learning that the buyer must already have a house under contract, I don't think so.
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Just watching an episode of Fixer Upper and Chip was wearing a shirt with Magnolia Realty. He's a founder and co-owner.
https://www.magnoliarealty.com/
Yeah, that's part of how he got his start after college/marriage. Interesting side note about them - they have never owned a TV.
Well, you don't need a TV to watch stuff. I have heard Joanna in person say how much the kids like to watch themselves on the show. I am outing myself-yes, I live in Waco. And now two of Chip's "friends" are suing him because he bought them out of their share of Magnolia realty super cheap right before he announced they got he HGTV show. And a lot of the people on the show have lived in the house for years and only pretend to but it on the show. And they strong arm people to spend way more than they wanted to originally. And most of the houses from the first and second season are rentals now, because they weren't the worst house in the best neighborhood. They are just a cheap house in a bad neighborhood and no one wants to live there. Some are in just regular neighborhoods, but the spend so much redoing them, I doubt that in a few years when people are tired of Fixxer Upper, they could sell it and get their money back out. One of them is around the corner from my house. They paid about what it was worth but then put so much more into it it would never sell for even close to what they paid for it. And last week the Magnolia Trucks were parked there again. Redoing work that wasn't right the first time. Apparently it happens a lot. They get sued for it all the time. My cousin was a contractor for them but finally quit because he couldn't stand them any more.
Honestly, I thought this was common knowledge - the only reason I knew the thing about the TV is I got their book with a bunch of other random bios from a black friday sale & they talk about watching it with friends. It's reality TV, none of it is true. They make interesting TV (or at least interesting enough given what I have to choose from in the middle of the day that I'm allowed to watch at work). The fact that they are being sued by their old partners right now is in the news.
Back on topic, sort of:
I am currently watching Grand Designs on Netflix & cannot believe the level of dedication people have to getting a house built a certain way in a certain episode. In episode 2(which I guess is season 13), the people spend ~4 yrs building a house for 1M pounds on ~ a tenth of an acre, but I mean why retire when you can spend your life savings on a house, right?
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Padded,
Just a Q, and I know it's kind of a silly Q because of all the factors, but what's the cost differential between a good quality job and a standard builder job? Definitely on board with most of what you list off. One of the things that probably puts you at odds with the HGTV folk is putting in stuff for overhead fans: Drew from PB doesn't even think houses should have overhead fans.
Would've loved to have a home that's properly built from the get-go, no idea what one would even cost today. All the new homes around me are in the 800k+ range for 3500 sq ft. These are on parcels that already have old homes and are purchased for 400k: I imagine homes on the lower-end are basically crap with nice finishes. Can't imagine how much it would cost to build a quality 3500 sq ft. Thoughts?
Interesting to see what my friends value, now that they are all buying homes. Most are sucked up by flashy finishes, most of which I imagine will not age well. One recently bought a ranch with only a half-basement. They could've gotten a larger ranch, with basement, on a better, larger lot, right down the street, for $50k less. I don't get that one personally. I haven't walked through the home, but looking at pictures the finishes look like they're going to scuff up like a department store dress shoe. One went massively over budget to buy a home with a major foundation crack and apparently a sealing problem, since their basement flooded badly the first year they bought the home.
Also curious about your thoughts on the best improvements for the older building stock....which I guess also depends on year and region. I know my friend is at war with his galvanized steel plumbing. Another has a house from what looks like the 70s, and is upgrading all the windows as his major priority.
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There are many significant issues with assigning value to any non-standard construction. First, obviously all real estate is local. I spent my career in a very LCOL area, and weathered the great recession, from which my market never recovered, so my numbers would look positively ridiculous in your market. Second, values are often driven by the bank. If it doesn't appraise on paper, even from blueprints, for many (most?) it's a project that will never even get started. My gut feeling however, is that building a really solid place, where all the additional funds are directed to the "bones" of the structure and mechanicals of a home, is probably a 15-20% bump. This would be a top to bottom upgrade. Poured foundation, top grade drainage, rubber exterior coating, spray foamed interior. Framing with I joist floors, Advantech, fir plywood sheathing, etc... Mechanicals to commercial standards, high level energy efficiency in everything from insulation to windows, doors. A fifty year roof, fifty year siding, etc..
I didn't know that anybody in the world of TV construction had an issue with ceiling fans? Kind of like odd. But remember, you are talking about a guy who looks at a wreck and says "I need six weeks and seventy grand to make this a palace" Cough, cough, me muttering "Bullshit" under my breath.
As for older places. I have one now, a mid-century modern ranch in a "To die for" location. That said, owning something like this is like getting handed a pillow case full of something that's wiggling around. It could be kittens, or snakes. You never know until you are the proud owner. In my case it turned out to be exterior walls of plaster on block, with a brick exterior. Durable, but totally unsuitable for a mid-atlantic climate. Much of the attic is insulated with 2" thick 1955 era. "pillows" about 4' long and 2" thick, They are made of craft paper with a thin piece of fiberglass insulation inside. They are as close to useless as it gets, and they crumble to little bits as you handle them. When it comes to galvanized plumbing, it tends to be a lost cause after half a century of use in most locations. The best bet is to tear it out. PEX is very DIY friendly, and glued CPVC is stupid easy. The most important part of buying old to really old homes is to have a really knowledgable pro. on hand to tell you if it has any deal breaking issues. You don't want to be dropping tens of thousands in rescue work for failed foundations, total mechanical replacements, or other real big issues, since it's all money down the drain. It might need to be done, but it needs to be completed and paid for by the seller, not you. Good luck.
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My gut feeling however, is that building a really solid place, where all the additional funds are directed to the "bones" of the structure and mechanicals of a home, is probably a 15-20% bump. This would be a top to bottom upgrade. Poured foundation, top grade drainage, rubber exterior coating, spray foamed interior. Framing with I joist floors, Advantech, fir plywood sheathing, etc... Mechanicals to commercial standards, high level energy efficiency in everything from insulation to windows, doors. A fifty year roof, fifty year siding, etc..
15-20%? I'm sold. It might not pay off on paper, but just think of all the things you wouldn't have to worry about!
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My gut feeling however, is that building a really solid place, where all the additional funds are directed to the "bones" of the structure and mechanicals of a home, is probably a 15-20% bump. This would be a top to bottom upgrade. Poured foundation, top grade drainage, rubber exterior coating, spray foamed interior. Framing with I joist floors, Advantech, fir plywood sheathing, etc... Mechanicals to commercial standards, high level energy efficiency in everything from insulation to windows, doors. A fifty year roof, fifty year siding, etc..
15-20%? I'm sold. It might not pay off on paper, but just think of all the things you wouldn't have to worry about!
I grew up in slate roof country. The family home is a 1915 four square, solid brick with a black slate roof. Amortizing the cost of that exterior, over a century, and adding the fact that it has been about as close to maintenance free as it gets, is a pretty interesting thought. My folks were there for forty years, and even adjusted to today's dollars, there is no way they spent anything close to an average of $500/YR to keep the exterior in top shape. Had the place been a wood framed, wood sided, shingled home, of the same age, it would typically be on it's fourth residing, sixth or seventh roof, and at least one total window replacement. The difference in very long term ownership costs is pretty staggering. Now, I'm sure we agree that this is also meaningless in our current environment of chipboard, vinyl, and my favorite, particle board POS kitchen cabinets with big slabs of granite on top, LOL.
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I used to love all the HGTV shows, but then the buyers of a place we sold did one of those shows. It was a miserable experience and I've never been able to bring myself to watch HGTV since.
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I used to love all the HGTV shows, but then the buyers of a place we sold did one of those shows. It was a miserable experience and I've never been able to bring myself to watch HGTV since.
Ooh, sounds interesting! Care to share more details?
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Huh, didn't realize PEX could be used for supply. I suggested it to my friend and he still prefers copper. He's been ripping out the galvanized and replacing as budget permits. I know the Roto-Rooter guy suggested PEX for the main house drain. All pipes in this area are clay and trees bust through them over the year. He mentioned they can actually shoot PEX the whole length of the pipe from inside your home, without having to dig up your whole front yard.
Much more appealing than replacing the whole thing with PEX, especially since I'd also have to dig up the village street. :/
10-15% additional cost doesn't sound too bad to me, especially if it's a custom-home that has all the features I really want anyways. I imagine an appropriately sized, well-built home would still be in the same ball-park or cheaper than a slapped together 4,000 square foot monstrosity. I also don't mind Formica finishes. :)
Part of the problem with considering long-term home costs is that Americans just don't hold homes for that long. I think median home-ownership is, what, 8 years? Basically nothing. It's longer in my particular neighborhood, but I imagine a lot of people will still be moving out in 20 years (normal roof life, hell even my 20-year old heater and appliances are still running).
My major hope is that my old home doesn't have any major structural issues that I don't know about....the front stoops slope pretty badly away from the home, but I don't see anything else major.
Other than that, I would like to have a back-up battery sump-pump, and I'd also like my sump-pump to drain properly. Mrs. ADBG doesn't get my fascination with the sump-pump, though. Insulation and windows after that, but given current cash flow, storm windows work fine.
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Huh, didn't realize PEX could be used for supply. I suggested it to my friend and he still prefers copper. He's been ripping out the galvanized and replacing as budget permits. I know the Roto-Rooter guy suggested PEX for the main house drain. All pipes in this area are clay and trees bust through them over the year. He mentioned they can actually shoot PEX the whole length of the pipe from inside your home, without having to dig up your whole front yard.
Much more appealing than replacing the whole thing with PEX, especially since I'd also have to dig up the village street. :/
10-15% additional cost doesn't sound too bad to me, especially if it's a custom-home that has all the features I really want anyways. I imagine an appropriately sized, well-built home would still be in the same ball-park or cheaper than a slapped together 4,000 square foot monstrosity. I also don't mind Formica finishes. :)
Part of the problem with considering long-term home costs is that Americans just don't hold homes for that long. I think median home-ownership is, what, 8 years? Basically nothing. It's longer in my particular neighborhood, but I imagine a lot of people will still be moving out in 20 years (normal roof life, hell even my 20-year old heater and appliances are still running).
My major hope is that my old home doesn't have any major structural issues that I don't know about....the front stoops slope pretty badly away from the home, but I don't see anything else major.
Other than that, I would like to have a back-up battery sump-pump, and I'd also like my sump-pump to drain properly. Mrs. ADBG doesn't get my fascination with the sump-pump, though. Insulation and windows after that, but given current cash flow, storm windows work fine.
FWIW, a battery backup sump pump can be purchased for ~$400 (including battery) and installed by an idiot. I know this because installing one was one of my first-ever plumbing job and it went fine.
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Huh, didn't realize PEX could be used for supply. I suggested it to my friend and he still prefers copper. He's been ripping out the galvanized and replacing as budget permits. I know the Roto-Rooter guy suggested PEX for the main house drain. All pipes in this area are clay and trees bust through them over the year. He mentioned they can actually shoot PEX the whole length of the pipe from inside your home, without having to dig up your whole front yard.
Much more appealing than replacing the whole thing with PEX, especially since I'd also have to dig up the village street. :/
10-15% additional cost doesn't sound too bad to me, especially if it's a custom-home that has all the features I really want anyways. I imagine an appropriately sized, well-built home would still be in the same ball-park or cheaper than a slapped together 4,000 square foot monstrosity. I also don't mind Formica finishes. :)
Part of the problem with considering long-term home costs is that Americans just don't hold homes for that long. I think median home-ownership is, what, 8 years? Basically nothing. It's longer in my particular neighborhood, but I imagine a lot of people will still be moving out in 20 years (normal roof life, hell even my 20-year old heater and appliances are still running).
My major hope is that my old home doesn't have any major structural issues that I don't know about....the front stoops slope pretty badly away from the home, but I don't see anything else major.
Other than that, I would like to have a back-up battery sump-pump, and I'd also like my sump-pump to drain properly. Mrs. ADBG doesn't get my fascination with the sump-pump, though. Insulation and windows after that, but given current cash flow, storm windows work fine.
FWIW, a battery backup sump pump can be purchased for ~$400 (including battery) and installed by an idiot. I know this because installing one was one of my first-ever plumbing job and it went fine.
Sounds like a fun weekend project. I'll have to get a thread over in the DIY section just so I'm not doing anything too stupid.
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Huh, didn't realize PEX could be used for supply. I suggested it to my friend and he still prefers copper. He's been ripping out the galvanized and replacing as budget permits. I know the Roto-Rooter guy suggested PEX for the main house drain. All pipes in this area are clay and trees bust through them over the year. He mentioned they can actually shoot PEX the whole length of the pipe from inside your home, without having to dig up your whole front yard.
Much more appealing than replacing the whole thing with PEX, especially since I'd also have to dig up the village street. :/
10-15% additional cost doesn't sound too bad to me, especially if it's a custom-home that has all the features I really want anyways. I imagine an appropriately sized, well-built home would still be in the same ball-park or cheaper than a slapped together 4,000 square foot monstrosity. I also don't mind Formica finishes. :)
Part of the problem with considering long-term home costs is that Americans just don't hold homes for that long. I think median home-ownership is, what, 8 years? Basically nothing. It's longer in my particular neighborhood, but I imagine a lot of people will still be moving out in 20 years (normal roof life, hell even my 20-year old heater and appliances are still running).
My major hope is that my old home doesn't have any major structural issues that I don't know about....the front stoops slope pretty badly away from the home, but I don't see anything else major.
Other than that, I would like to have a back-up battery sump-pump, and I'd also like my sump-pump to drain properly. Mrs. ADBG doesn't get my fascination with the sump-pump, though. Insulation and windows after that, but given current cash flow, storm windows work fine.
FWIW, a battery backup sump pump can be purchased for ~$400 (including battery) and installed by an idiot. I know this because installing one was one of my first-ever plumbing job and it went fine.
Sounds like a fun weekend project. I'll have to get a thread over in the DIY section just so I'm not doing anything too stupid.
I will caveat it that it is dependent on your existing pump being done correctly; you mentioned something about having the current sump pump drain right. If the current pump is wrong the backup will be too because you just install it in line on the existing plumbing.
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Huh, didn't realize PEX could be used for supply. I suggested it to my friend and he still prefers copper. He's been ripping out the galvanized and replacing as budget permits. I know the Roto-Rooter guy suggested PEX for the main house drain. All pipes in this area are clay and trees bust through them over the year. He mentioned they can actually shoot PEX the whole length of the pipe from inside your home, without having to dig up your whole front yard.
PEX is pretty much standard as supply lines in many parts of the country anymore. It is literally 80% cheaper than copper, indestructible, and very DIY friendly. Pulling a pipe through a sewer or water line is a great old trick, but it's a pretty unusual use for PEX. Most PEX is much smaller, at 1/2 and 3/4" trade sized and used for water supply and radiant heating.
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Holmes is amazing, but if every house was built to his standard, they would all cost millions.
Not at all, and there are builders who do just that - http://holmesapprovedhomes.com/about-us
While there are quite a few in Canada, there is literally one listed for the entire USA.
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House hunters: 30 year old couple is looking for a $950k house, their first home
Me: wow! I wonder what kind of jobs they have to be able to afford something like that!
House hunters: "Our budget is $950,000 because that was the maximum the bank would approve us for, so that is what we can afford".
Wow, such sound logic. What could go wrong?
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I just saw this one on Facebook:
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18402643_10155365923481473_210199584480562421_n.jpg?oh=8ff32de9d8ab5e8ca24c72f8d7f418d1&oe=59A06B97)
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House hunters: 30 year old couple is looking for a $950k house, their first home
Me: wow! I wonder what kind of jobs they have to be able to afford something like that!
House hunters: "Our budget is $950,000 because that was the maximum the bank would approve us for, so that is what we can afford".
Wow, such sound logic. What could go wrong?
Wow. That is just crazy. My DH and I were told we could borrow $500k for our first home just over 10 years ago. Instead we borrowed $130k for a 1 bed unit. It was a great decision. We knew from doing our own budget that we couldn't afford $500k. At the time we spoke about how many people would see the banks offer and take it without doing their own sums. We believe this practice by the banks has contributed significantly to the ridiculous house prices in Australia. I know they are capitalising on people's stupidity legally but morally...SMH. Commissions to mortgage brokers are a bad idea too. It rewards them for offering loans that are higher than people can afford.
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I saw a house hunters episode recently where the wife needed a house with a large picture window so she could display a Christmas tree in the window one month a year. She needed to see the tree through the window before you enter the house, that was a deal breaker. The first 2 houses did not have picture windows, so they were out. The 3rd house had the picture window, but no dog door. The husband wants to have a dog one day, this house will never work!! Ummm why can't you install a dog door on your own?
Also saw a married couple, no kids, each needed their own hobby room. Wife needed a craft room, husband needed a video game room, plus they need a guest room, plus rooms for future kids. So minimum 5 bedroom house. Because 'merica.
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I saw a house hunters episode recently where the wife needed a house with a large picture window so she could display a Christmas tree in the window one month a year. She needed to see the tree through the window before you enter the house, that was a deal breaker. The first 2 houses did not have picture windows, so they were out. The 3rd house had the picture window, but no dog door. The husband wants to have a dog one day, this house will never work!! Ummm why can't you install a dog door on your own?
Also saw a married couple, no kids, each needed their own hobby room. Wife needed a craft room, husband needed a video game room, plus they need a guest room, plus rooms for future kids. So minimum 5 bedroom house. Because 'merica.
LOL, I really dislike that show, along with Property Virgins. Gah! I will watch HH International, because of the armchair traveler aspect, but only in limited doses.
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Huh, didn't realize PEX could be used for supply. I suggested it to my friend and he still prefers copper. He's been ripping out the galvanized and replacing as budget permits. I know the Roto-Rooter guy suggested PEX for the main house drain. All pipes in this area are clay and trees bust through them over the year. He mentioned they can actually shoot PEX the whole length of the pipe from inside your home, without having to dig up your whole front yard.
PEX is pretty much standard as supply lines in many parts of the country anymore. It is literally 80% cheaper than copper, indestructible, and very DIY friendly. Pulling a pipe through a sewer or water line is a great old trick, but it's a pretty unusual use for PEX. Most PEX is much smaller, at 1/2 and 3/4" trade sized and used for water supply and radiant heating.
Any thoughts on the supposed bio-static properties of copper?
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I actually had to look that one up. Basically, it boils down to copper having natural anti-bacterial properties that plastics lack. Pretty much a total non-issue IMHO. If you have city water, it's probably clorinated. If you have well water, it travels through hundreds of feet of black polyethelene pipe and sits in a tank with a rubber pressure bladder, before it hits your water lines. Both option have countless locations for bacterial growth on surfaces other than copper.
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Anyone watching Living Alaska? Jaw dropping beauty. The homes look great, but some are in very remote areas, even for Alaska. I've seen episodes with families moving to Alaska from Alabama, Texas, and California. The homes on the show are expensive - $585K. Many don't even seem to have garages or mudrooms which would seem to be a necessity. Most recent show did have a hot tub upstairs in front of a picture window so you could soak and look at the view. Not understanding the people buying homes on this show at all.
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It takes a special person to live there and love it. We spent four summers there over the last fifteen years or so. The prices are shocking, as is the amount of privately held land, which is pretty small. Lots of things you wouldn't expect, from housing shortages, to extremely high rents for remote homes without indoor plumbing or running water, and really long commutes for people that live way out of town and commute to places like Anchorage. Occasionally, when somebody finds out that I've spent a lot of time there, the question of, "don't you just want to pack everything up and move there?" No offense to any AK. residents out there, but my answer is, "Hell no!" Great place to hang out and enjoy some of the most beautiful locations on earth, for about three months a year, I'll take a pass on the other nine. I'm not tough enough, and I would probably be ready for involuntary commitment is a psych ward by the end of February.
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Anyone watching Living Alaska? Jaw dropping beauty. The homes look great, but some are in very remote areas, even for Alaska. I've seen episodes with families moving to Alaska from Alabama, Texas, and California. The homes on the show are expensive - $585K. Many don't even seem to have garages or mudrooms which would seem to be a necessity. Most recent show did have a hot tub upstairs in front of a picture window so you could soak and look at the view. Not understanding the people buying homes on this show at all.
Those houses sound like they might be really awesome to rent for a week or two during the summer! I'd hate to live there long-term, though. Between the cold, the long nights, and the lack of a garage, that doesn't sound like fun.
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Anyone watching Living Alaska? Jaw dropping beauty. The homes look great, but some are in very remote areas, even for Alaska. I've seen episodes with families moving to Alaska from Alabama, Texas, and California. The homes on the show are expensive - $585K. Many don't even seem to have garages or mudrooms which would seem to be a necessity. Most recent show did have a hot tub upstairs in front of a picture window so you could soak and look at the view. Not understanding the people buying homes on this show at all.
I have two friends who are 92. One was born and raised in Alaska, the other worked there for many years. Periodically, I'll have them over for dinner and a binge watching session of this show. They both agree that even though parts of the show are silly and exaggerated, the main point is solid. Everything is exaggerated in Alaska.
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Anyone watching Living Alaska? Jaw dropping beauty. The homes look great, but some are in very remote areas, even for Alaska. I've seen episodes with families moving to Alaska from Alabama, Texas, and California. The homes on the show are expensive - $585K. Many don't even seem to have garages or mudrooms which would seem to be a necessity. Most recent show did have a hot tub upstairs in front of a picture window so you could soak and look at the view. Not understanding the people buying homes on this show at all.
I remember I watched one episode where they looked at 3 houses. Of the 3, 1 had indoor plumbing. 2 had a hanger for an airplane.
Different priorities there.
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Whoops! Perhaps I wasn't fully awake when I read this. I guess there's Living Alaska and Building Alaska. The building one is the one my sweet old lady friends like.
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We were asked if we wanted to be on HHI while we were on a trip to Roatan to check out a couple of properties. We put in a contract, but a day later financial sanity set in and I cancelled it. This was pre-Mustachian days.
The part about bringing several changes of clothes is true, a few years back I was on one of the well known TV game shows, and I had to take several changes of clothes in case the taping went more than one episode. It actually did. I had to run what seemed like forever to get back to the changing room and change. I told my handler I had to pee, and she said, well pee fast. My wife was mildly amused because even though I changed clothes, every time they cut to her in the audience, she was wearing the same thing. LOL.
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Macmansion Hell - a blog devoted to tacky MacMansions. Lots of mockery and snark. Enjoy!
http://www.mcmansionhell.com/101
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Regarding the "Living Alaska" comment I made . . . my comment came from a place of having lived in Brunswick, Maine for three years.
A good house in Maine needed a garage because the car's battery would have likely had an electric line attached to it, enabling it to start in the mornings when the temperature was below 0 Farenheit.
A good house in Maine also had a mudroom where everyone could leave their coats, mittens, boots, scarves.
The "Living Alaska" shows I watched, some of the houses offered only street parking. No mud rooms seen so far. Some of them were also quite remote from any town, store, doctor's offices - very hard to understand the long term appeal of that. But maybe I'm missing that Alaska gene :-)
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Macmansion Hell - a blog devoted to tacky MacMansions. Lots of mockery and snark. Enjoy!
http://www.mcmansionhell.com/101
Off-topic, but I'd like that blog a lot more if the author wasn't an honest-to-god Marxist....
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I'm in the process of selling my house and just had what I'll call my first "House Hunters comments." Yes, I know I choose not to upgrade 4 years ago to stainless steel appliances for the kitchen. Why you ask I refuse to pay an extra $1,000-1,500 for a decoration on my appliances. I also personally hate granite and didn't have the time to figure out what solid surface I liked when buying so I just went with the standard option of Laminate in a neutral color. Plus I recall thinking again the cost of the builder installing something better was way more than anything I'd do later. Yup I know the neighbor down the street has these two things but they also have a crap layout and other items in the house such as the cabinets are cheap.
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I'm in the process of selling my house and just had what I'll call my first "House Hunters comments." Yes, I know I choose not to upgrade 4 years ago to stainless steel appliances for the kitchen. Why you ask I refuse to pay an extra $1,000-1,500 for a decoration on my appliances. I also personally hate granite and didn't have the time to figure out what solid surface I liked when buying so I just went with the standard option of Laminate in a neutral color. Plus I recall thinking again the cost of the builder installing something better was way more than anything I'd do later. Yup I know the neighbor down the street has these two things but they also have a crap layout and other items in the house such as the cabinets are cheap.
Well the unfortunate reality is that you made choices that are now biting you in the ass. No different that hunting down a new car with manual window cranks and no AC( if that's still possible, LOL) It might be what you want, but don't expect to sell it easily, or not take a huge hit on a trade-in. In reality, Granite is roughly $1-1.5K more than laminate on a typical builder grade kitchen, and SS is worth about $75 per appliance. Unfortunately there is no shortage of buyers who surf Zillow, look at a four year old house with cheap appliances, and laminate counters, and click right past. You might want to get an honest opinion from your realtor as to how this is impacting your marketability, and if it's worth addressing? In some markets it's meaningless. In my market, houses last for a few days, to weeks, and many kitchens are horrendous, often 4-6 decades old, and repainted with shitty countertops, so it is meaningless. In other areas it's a deal breaker. Good luck with the sale.
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I'm in the process of selling my house and just had what I'll call my first "House Hunters comments." Yes, I know I choose not to upgrade 4 years ago to stainless steel appliances for the kitchen. Why you ask I refuse to pay an extra $1,000-1,500 for a decoration on my appliances. I also personally hate granite and didn't have the time to figure out what solid surface I liked when buying so I just went with the standard option of Laminate in a neutral color. Plus I recall thinking again the cost of the builder installing something better was way more than anything I'd do later. Yup I know the neighbor down the street has these two things but they also have a crap layout and other items in the house such as the cabinets are cheap.
Well the unfortunate reality is that you made choices that are now biting you in the ass. No different that hunting down a new car with manual window cranks and no AC( if that's still possible, LOL) It might be what you want, but don't expect to sell it easily, or not take a huge hit on a trade-in. In reality, Granite is roughly $1-1.5K more than laminate on a typical builder grade kitchen, and SS is worth about $75 per appliance. Unfortunately there is no shortage of buyers who surf Zillow, look at a four year old house with cheap appliances, and laminate counters, and click right past. You might want to get an honest opinion from your realtor as to how this is impacting your marketability, and if it's worth addressing? In some markets it's meaningless. In my market, houses last for a few days, to weeks, and many kitchens are horrendous, often 4-6 decades old, and repainted with shitty countertops, so it is meaningless. In other areas it's a deal breaker. Good luck with the sale.
Actually they aren't deal breakers. And my realtor's opinion is that they don't need to be worried about. I just found it funny that it was my first and only feedback that was so typically house hunters. I know my area, they are not issues.
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Having lived with stainless steel appliances for 9 years now, next time I'll be going back to white. It's a complete PITA to upkeep. We didn't pay much extra for ours though. We got our fridge on clearance as it was a display model and opened on the opposite side to the majority of fridges.
It amazes me how so many people on those shows make comments about things like that as if they are deal breakers, when these things are so easily changed.
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I'm in the process of selling my house and just had what I'll call my first "House Hunters comments." Yes, I know I choose not to upgrade 4 years ago to stainless steel appliances for the kitchen. Why you ask I refuse to pay an extra $1,000-1,500 for a decoration on my appliances. I also personally hate granite and didn't have the time to figure out what solid surface I liked when buying so I just went with the standard option of Laminate in a neutral color. Plus I recall thinking again the cost of the builder installing something better was way more than anything I'd do later. Yup I know the neighbor down the street has these two things but they also have a crap layout and other items in the house such as the cabinets are cheap.
Well the unfortunate reality is that you made choices that are now biting you in the ass. No different that hunting down a new car with manual window cranks and no AC( if that's still possible, LOL) It might be what you want, but don't expect to sell it easily, or not take a huge hit on a trade-in. In reality, Granite is roughly $1-1.5K more than laminate on a typical builder grade kitchen, and SS is worth about $75 per appliance. Unfortunately there is no shortage of buyers who surf Zillow, look at a four year old house with cheap appliances, and laminate counters, and click right past. You might want to get an honest opinion from your realtor as to how this is impacting your marketability, and if it's worth addressing? In some markets it's meaningless. In my market, houses last for a few days, to weeks, and many kitchens are horrendous, often 4-6 decades old, and repainted with shitty countertops, so it is meaningless. In other areas it's a deal breaker. Good luck with the sale.
You can get adhesive film that looks like stainless, and also granite. I'm 100% sure that few people would even notice it wasn't genuine, because I have the granite film on my laminate countertop. It's sealed with marine epoxy. People always comment on the expensive looking tops. One day I'll put the stainless stuff on my fridge. Even my bathroom glazing isn't genuine frosted glass, I'm afraid.
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Having lived with stainless steel appliances for 9 years now, next time I'll be going back to white. It's a complete PITA to upkeep. We didn't pay much extra for ours though. We got our fridge on clearance as it was a display model and opened on the opposite side to the majority of fridges.
It amazes me how so many people on those shows make comments about things like that as if they are deal breakers, when these things are so easily changed.
It also astonishes me that people pay $4-5k on kitchen appliances (stove, fridge, dishwasher only!).
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It amazes me how so many people on those shows make comments about things like that as if they are deal breakers, when these things are so easily changed.
I have watched these shows in hotels. It's amazing how many people act like single dated overhead fixture is a dealbreaker on a $400k house!
I mean, guys. Go to Home Depot and spend $30 for a new fixture. Get out a screwdriver and swap 'em. Should take like an hour for your very first time ever.
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Having lived with stainless steel appliances for 9 years now, next time I'll be going back to white. It's a complete PITA to upkeep. We didn't pay much extra for ours though. We got our fridge on clearance as it was a display model and opened on the opposite side to the majority of fridges.
It amazes me how so many people on those shows make comments about things like that as if they are deal breakers, when these things are so easily changed.
It also astonishes me that people pay $4-5k on kitchen appliances (stove, fridge, dishwasher only!).
My son is buying a $200K house. The current owner bought it as a $70K foreclosure, and dumped $200K + into it, over the decade he occupied it. It includes a $35K custom built hickory kitchen with a $5K range, and a $75k pole barn that I could fit my house in. Sometimes it's nice to be able to reap the benefits of other's extraordinarily bad choices.
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Here's another example of that:
http://www.estately.com/listings/info/1316-rudgear-rd--2
This house was purchased in 7/07 for $1,399,500. It's currently on the market for $1,475,000. What the photos can't completely convey is that the owner redid the entire house, using an expensive high-end, custom builder with top quality materials and finishes. DH estimates that they spent a cool half million on upgrades over the last decade. The setting is beautiful, but the decor is somewhat taste-specific and it's located on a busy road.
For the right buyer, this is an amazing deal. For the seller, meh. They got to live the way they wanted and the money spent is not going to derail them financially. (They are mid-50's and FIRE, just not mustachian.)
From the a mustachian perspective, wow, we can't even imagine... oh, the reason for the sale? The owner's ready to downsize.
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So I had to post because I just watched 'Island Hunters' and what is more ridiculous than buying an island house? Going on a vacation to search for the perfect vacation!!
In this particular episode, the couple is looking for a luxurious vacation and looks to be in their 30's. The agent takes them to Bora Bora and they tour the St. Regis. The price tag he quotes is $34,500 for a week! ONE WEEK!
Also, have these people never heard of credit card hacking?
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So I had to post because I just watched 'Island Hunters' and what is more ridiculous than buying an island house? Going on a vacation to search for the perfect vacation!!
In this particular episode, the couple is looking for a luxurious vacation and looks to be in their 30's. The agent takes them to Bora Bora and they tour the St. Regis. The price tag he quotes is $34,500 for a week! ONE WEEK!
Also, have these people never heard of credit card hacking?
I think I actually saw that episode. Usually they are actually looking to buy an island. I have seen several episodes and I think that is the only one where they are looking for a place to vacation, which is sort of a ridiculous concept. I'm guessing some tourist organization from there threw some money at them to spotlight the area so they did that? Or else the show's producers wanted to visit Bora Bora and there weren't really any islands for sale, so they changed the concept for one show?
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So I had to post because I just watched 'Island Hunters' and what is more ridiculous than buying an island house? Going on a vacation to search for the perfect vacation!!
In this particular episode, the couple is looking for a luxurious vacation and looks to be in their 30's. The agent takes them to Bora Bora and they tour the St. Regis. The price tag he quotes is $34,500 for a week! ONE WEEK!
Also, have these people never heard of credit card hacking?
I think I actually saw that episode. Usually they are actually looking to buy an island. I have seen several episodes and I think that is the only one where they are looking for a place to vacation, which is sort of a ridiculous concept. I'm guessing some tourist organization from there threw some money at them to spotlight the area so they did that? Or else the show's producers wanted to visit Bora Bora and there weren't really any islands for sale, so they changed the concept for one show?
No, I've actually seen several where the couple is looking for a honeymoon/vacation. I share your thoughts on the tourist organization -- all of the "vacation" ones that I have seen have been in the South Pacific.
That is one show that I basically need to stop watching because it makes me feel bad. We were watching the other night, and these guys were looking for a $10M island in the South Pacific to start their own private resort, and then the next guys were looking for a $15-25M island in the South Pacific to start *their* own private resort. And DH looked at me and said, "What do these people DO that they can afford that? We've done something wrong." :-)
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Is it two different shows? I thought there was one where they bought an island, but another one where they tour 3 different vacation rentals and then buy the one where they go on vacation (I think like, immediately following the show- it's like "shop for your hotel room"- so I imagine that is super duper fake.)
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So I had to post because I just watched 'Island Hunters' and what is more ridiculous than buying an island house? Going on a vacation to search for the perfect vacation!!
In this particular episode, the couple is looking for a luxurious vacation and looks to be in their 30's. The agent takes them to Bora Bora and they tour the St. Regis. The price tag he quotes is $34,500 for a week! ONE WEEK!
Also, have these people never heard of credit card hacking?
That's the exact show that was playing in the clinic where I just went for my allergy shot. They constantly have some kind of reality-TV house hunter nonsense on their TV in the waiting room. It makes me itch. I've built up an immunity to the pollen but not to stupidity.
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So I had to post because I just watched 'Island Hunters' and what is more ridiculous than buying an island house? Going on a vacation to search for the perfect vacation!!
In this particular episode, the couple is looking for a luxurious vacation and looks to be in their 30's. The agent takes them to Bora Bora and they tour the St. Regis. The price tag he quotes is $34,500 for a week! ONE WEEK!
Also, have these people never heard of credit card hacking?
That's the exact show that was playing in the clinic where I just went for my allergy shot. They constantly have some kind of reality-TV house hunter nonsense on their TV in the waiting room. It makes me itch. I've built up an immunity to the pollen but not to stupidity.
I greatly prefer this to the places that play either CNN or FOX News constantly.
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Is it two different shows? I thought there was one where they bought an island, but another one where they tour 3 different vacation rentals and then buy the one where they go on vacation (I think like, immediately following the show- it's like "shop for your hotel room"- so I imagine that is super duper fake.)
Nope, same one. Trust me, I know my real estate porn. ;-)
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Too small kitchen (or bathroom) is the premise of like 80% of the episodes.
Everytime my husband and I are in the kitchen and get into each others way we say we need a new house.
:-D We do that too.
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I used to be a HUGE HGTV fan, but since cutting cable hadn't tuned in in a while. A few months ago while on vacation we tuned into Beach Front Bargain Hunt. Every day. (Ironically we were on a beach vacation but by mid afternoon needed a break from the sun).
Now this show could be almost mustachian! It has bargain hunt in it's name!!! The premise is that the house (or condo) needs to be under 300k, and most are reasonable sized properties. No McMansions here...but the people who are looking for these houses drive me insane.
For "budget" shoppers they are ridiculous with their must haves. The thing that killed me the most was the DOUBLE VANITY. This was always the deal breaker. House 1 is NEXT TO THE OCEAN, but has 1 sink in the bathroom. House 2 is a 15 minute walk from the ocean but has a double vanity. They always pick house 2.
While we were watching this an add for Home Depot came on, advertising their new DOUBLE VANITY. The add showed two kids brushing their teeth at a SINGLE SINK and one of them accidentally knocks something into it...and mom and dad looking at each other in a state of despair. Voice over comes on: "What do you do when you've out grown your bathroom?" Cut to parents shopping at home depot, and then cut to kids peacefully brushing their teeth with TWO SINKS. Voice over "Home depot, fixing families since XXXX" (or whatever the cheesy slogan is).
And don't get me started about the interior cosmetic 1 weekend fixes that are deal breakers...ugh!
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What does "needs updating" mean?
- HGTV - out of style (sometimes only just), but perfectly servicable
- Real Estate Listing - worn out from decades of use